 Good morning everyone. Thank you for connecting to the class. I've just started the recording. I'm sure this will join us in a bit. We ran over the previous class a few minutes so there'll be a little delay I think in joining. But let's pray and we'll get started. Okay, go ahead. Somebody just pray with us together and then we will start please. Thank you. Thank you for giving us one more opportunity to learn from your workloads. Help us and I pray that this session be in your hand lot and help us later each of the students and also positive. Whatever we learn from from the this session lot help us to go and you know that your name will be glorified. Thank you. Amen. Amen. Okay, thank you. All right welcome everyone to this class on church and ministry administration. We didn't have a class last Friday so last week we had only one class that we did on communications. Today we're going to move into another topic. We're going to talk about culture and we will probably spend an additional one more lecture on this on culture and if needed we could do a third lecture but I think we will see. We'll see if we can finish it in two. Now I have put out the notes for you on for today's lecture. I will also go ahead and share the PDF so we can follow. So culture when we talk about culture of right the what we are talking about first of foremost is the culture of the organization. So in this course we're talking about the church, the organization side of the church or the Christian ministry. So whatever we are learning can apply to a local church. The local church is an organization or it can apply to any kind of Christian ministry as an organization. Now the culture of the organization is very important and we will talk about what it is but let's just try to describe you know define what are we talking about when we say culture in the context of the organization. We're talking about essentially shared values, practices, standards, traditions. This is something that everybody in the organization kind of express. So that there's a shared way of thinking. So if you want to look at it and you look at it from different perspectives the culture of an organization it can be described by the jointly held beliefs within the organization. It can also be expressed through the common values and practices. When we say rituals I'm not talking about religious rituals I'm just talking about things that we do over and over again. You know practices of people in the organization. It could also be described by the way of think behaving and thinking you know what what is the norm you know of how you should behave in the organization. It can also be described by the way things are done. This is the way we do it here in this organization you know. So these jointly held beliefs, practices, values, norms of behavior or patterns of behavior and the way things are done you know. All of that describe the culture within an organization one month. Let me just see if somebody's trying to come in and if I okay Siddharth is coming in okay. Okay all right so let me go back to the PDF right. So that's you know so that in general we'll be speaking and you know this is what describes the culture. Now in a large organization you know there could be some cultures within the organization meaning we can't assume that everybody in the organization or every department have the same culture especially in very large organizations. There can be subcultures that means a certain division or a certain department can have its own culture which could be different from you know the organization the rest of the organization you know that means oh there they do it like this kind of thing you know that's possible also. So we need to keep in mind depending on the size of the organization so on there could be subcultures. The other thing also we keep in mind is culture is dynamic and it could change over time you know it could change over time due to external or internal changes for example if the leadership inside changes right the leadership could then affect change in culture so I'm just giving a broad example maybe there was one leader who was very dominating very very suppressive very dictatorial so the organization as a whole had a you know I had a very you know we will call this a very toxic culture it was an unhealthy culture because the leader was like that and everybody was you know kept in fear and couldn't talk and they just had to do and let's say you got rid of that leader and you brought in a leader who was totally opposite you know he was a leader who was gentle as a servant leader is encouraging people what happens the culture when the organization will change you know and it's resulted from an internal change you change the leader and the culture changed you know so things like that so culture is dynamic it can change you can change over time it can change due to internal changes or it also bring about external you know so things from outside change and therefore the organization decides look we are going to change example you know let's say a church said okay you know we're all going to wear suit and tie you know we're going to be very formal so you know Monday to Friday everyone comes in suit and tie to work in the office Sunday everybody's in like the best suit and tie and everything I was giving an example right so they're like that but then they find out that you know the world around them the people they're trying to reach are changing they're going away from suits and ties to more casual kinds of you know attire and that they are those are the kind of people who want to come to church people want to come to church but they don't want to come in suit and tie they want to come in just simple clothes you know everyday casual clothes yeah then so what happens and they say okay hey because there's external change happening let us change so they you know they shed their suit and tie thing and just just you know change everything so they make it more the organization becomes more flat more open people are getting more casual and then same thing happens in the Sunday services etc and so on so there were external changes that then resulted in a change within the culture of both the organization and the congregation just this example right but the point is when we're talking about culture we're talking about the values the practices the the way people work together and the way things are done what they believe and so on and it in our lesson and the lessons that we are doing on culture are primary interest is in the workplace culture that means of the organization or the church but what do we say we at times will also refer to it extended to the church culture meaning you know if the if the organization culture is like this usually it'll extend to the congregation as well right so while our focus most of talk will be about the workplace I mean as as an the organization but keep in mind a lot of this will spill over to the congregation will impact the congregation the people being served all right so we'll keep that in mind now why is culture important and I've just put down four important and these are very important first of all it affects the employee or the staff experience the people the people are working the organization the culture of the organization greatly determines their experience in the organization right even though you know we can do do all this we can you know we can give them a role description we can give them okay this is your job description you give them you know a nice workplace you give them the equipment you give them all these things ultimately the culture of the organization somehow will override and influence their overall experience so if the culture is bad and toxic and harsh no matter what other things we give them you know we can give them best equipment we can give them lots of money to spend we can give them whatever but if the culture is not good their experience in the organization will not be good okay and connected to that it affects the productivity of the outcome you know what what are people able to produce by being part of the organization right and looking externally it will affect how people are served that means in our context it's the congregation because ultimately the church as an organization all the church staff people working are then going to serve the congregation so it will impact them the congregation will be affected because of the culture eventually right culture is also important because it can protect the organization from negative influences whether it's internal or external so the culture is like an immune system for the organization if you have a strong culture a good culture when there's some negative influence that comes from within you know it's going to be eliminated or if it's if it's an external thing it comes from outside it's the organization will reject it why because they want to protect the people want to protect this healthy culture that they have example let's say you know we have a as a church organization we have a very and we will talk about some of these things and we have a very good you know a culture that that that really is one of teamwork that people work as teams you know it's not about an individual performance kind of thing but it's a culture where teamwork is encouraged it's a V culture you know V this is our work we are doing this together this is our success together and suppose somebody comes in who's very individualistic you know for whatever reason you know suppose that kind of a person gets hired to join the organization there's only one thing that's going to happen either that person changes and becomes a V person and says you know he adapts to the culture of the organization or he will not survive because the rest of the organization will not accept somebody who is an I person you know who's very individualistic because the culture in the organization is V this is our team we are going to do this together we enjoy and share the success so what happens it's an automatic immune system it's going to prevent negative influence whether it comes you know whether it's through I'm just using an example of a person a person who comes in as a you know so it affects or maybe if there's a negative influence from outside the the organization so culture is very important it protects the organization when the culture is really strong and it's imbibed by the people and the value of it they will protect it and so on now so as we talk about culture you know some of the things we want to understand is and what shapes the organization culture how do you nurture culture within an organization and today we'll also look at you know contrasting cultures when what is a what is a healthy culture a kingdom culture which we should you know foster within the organization what are some toxic cultures examples of a toxic culture meaning unhealthy culture which is very detrimental to the organization we'll just do a contrast today okay so what shapes the culture within the organization right there are you know we can quickly identify some of these things these are all of this is you know common knowledge when you when you study organization and study this is a whole field and management on organizational culture so all this is general information very important is leadership right the leadership that is the meaning people who are in leadership they need to what do they model people will tend to follow their leaders right and so that's one very important thing what are the leaders model if leaders model a servant leadership if they if the leaders model you know something that's showing care and something that's you know you know that's healthy people will also do that so at all levels so if the team leader is like this then the next person below will follow that you know so that this is very important you know we can't overstate how important the leadership and what they model the behavior of the leadership how that influences culture it cannot be overstated it's very important and you could say that you know everything starts flowing from here if the leader is toxic well you're going to have a culture that's toxic right secondly the sharing of stories that means when we talk about hey this is how the organization started this is what God is you know I'm talking about the church culture this is what God has done this is what God has helped us do and this is how we have grown this is how we have journeyed through various situations this is how we have overcome so when we talk about the stories like you know what we would say share those testimonies and when the stories are told and retold these stories then inspire shape and guide behavior which means they actually help nurture the culture within the organization because people begin to think in line that those stories hey God has helped us before we did this project and we we blessed so many people okay we will do it again or we can do something bigger you know so those stories of successes the stories of what the organization has done and you know in the past when those are told and retold and how we have grown how we have moved from various locations or how we've handled challenges the stories help shape and guide another thing would be the practices so what do we do repeatedly and consistently you know so let's say you know somebody does a good job you say thank you well then that's going to be repeated throughout the organization it's it's going to keep happening over and over again and if you keep doing that saying thank you people you know repeat that people will say thank you it's becomes a ritual it becomes a practice that when something happens you say thank you you know it's a small thing but it's a good and healthy thing for the culture or you know you celebrate a team's accomplishment and you celebrate it as a team then that's a ritual that means maybe one or two people did great work but you celebrate the team so that becomes a ritual and a practice so then from then on you know you celebrate the team you say hey the team did a great job they did a great job you know even if you know they've been one or two outstanding contributors you celebrate the team so that is a ritual it's a practice and it's repeated consistently people continue to do that with shapes thinking and behavior right another important piece that shapes culture of course is during the orientation or training or repeated communication you share what are core values and this is something you'll find in many organizations they say these are core values but these are what we value as important for us so yeah this can be done and during the orientation when people are joining or in training or repeatedly you're communicating it that also helps shape the culture and also when you affirm and reward behavior aligned to the culture right so the incentives so to speak are affirming hey you did like this you know performance maybe one of the things but sometimes it may not just be performance it may be going out of the way to do something or maybe you know sacrificing in order to accomplish something so when you affirm and reward those kinds of behaviors then those become part of the culture because people say hey that's what is recognized that's what is rewarded I'm going to do that I'm going to follow that right so that's another way to establish a culture within the organization so let me just share with you a little bit of what we've done here at APC so many years ago I don't know exactly when but we had our media graphics team put this little picture together and we've you know we've used it in different places it's on our website it's on our volunteer guidelines document and church membership documents we've kind of put it in different places and in in this one picture we are trying to create a capture sorry our core values I mean this is what is important for us okay but remember it's one thing to have a picture but what's more important than the picture is for leaders to embody this for leaders to model this to for leaders to go after this so even if people don't see this picture they have to see this embodied in the leaders right it's good if they see the picture it's good if they keep seeing it often so you know we try to put it in different places but leaving it in a in a graphic like this will not get the job done okay it'll just be a graphic it'll just be okay it's a namesake thing what's more powerful what's more important is people leaders starting with the leaders and others who are in the organization should embody these things which we call as core values right so what do we say we say our team is Jesus that means this church is about Jesus it's not about the pastor it's not about a few pastors it's not about some celebrity person our team is Jesus right our content is the word that means what are we going to do we're going to preach and teach the word of God so we're not here to teach some philosophy we're not here to excite the crowd we're not here to entertain the crowd we are going to focus on the word what's our method holy spirit power so while we may use tools we may use technologies ultimately we're depending on the power of holy spirit to impact lives we're not depending on our led screen we're not depending on you know fancy videos we're not depending on fancy graphics you know of course we'll have the best we can but more important is our method is holy spirit power what's our passion ultimately it's people so it's not about buildings it's not about other things that people may consider important what's most important people so we are here to serve people we're here to help them so people are priority and ultimately what are we working towards we are working towards helping people become like Christ our goal right so this is our core these are most important now we have to embody this and you know hopefully you know and this is something that has to come from people rather than me trying to speak on it but hopefully as leaders and I'm saying leaders means I'm a pastoral team and all the ministry leaders and people are heading up various in areas of ministry in the church our church stuff hopefully we are doing a good job or a reasonably good job in modeling this so that when people think about us they say like yeah yeah it's not about some individualists they are they're pointing to Jesus they are focused on the word of God they are depending on the holy spirit they're really care for people and their goal is yeah they're working towards Christ like so hopefully people are able to see this and hopefully we can become better at it because if we don't model it then having this graphic like I said is of no use and then around this core there are these additional values so let's say opportunity that means we want to give opportunity to anybody so anyone can come to the church and serve now of course in certain areas there are requirements but as long as you meet the requirements the opportunity is there so we do not in any way so any believer can come to the church I use a qualified believer because we are a church so therefore we need believers these opportunities for all believers they can come and be a part of the ministry that's what's happening here unity is very important if there's anything that threatens you know the unity then that's a big issue so I have made some huge decisions based on the simple thing that the action of that individual was disturbing the unity of the church so then therefore you know it was a very strong action taken because this is a very core value and we cannot let anything threaten the unity of the body integrity is also very high we need to maintain integrity and if anything disturbs this people will be held responsible we want to pursue excellence it's a core value we don't settle for mediocrity we push for excellence and if people are not willing to go that extra mile for excellence okay at some point you know we have to take a call but excellence is something we all will have to pursue we also have a value of pioneering that means we want to be out doing something new you know we're not afraid to step out and and try out some new things it doesn't matter we are going to be the first people to try it out let's do it and relationships are important you know we value our relationships with people that must be protected so here again there's anything that is disturbing you know relationships we take that very seriously so these are our core values and and and the decisions people make and the choices you know as leaders make they're kind of you know this is like behind this is like the guiding if you say the guiding principle or principles in all the decisions they make you know and and you know this really touches on everything everyone does right so core value so this is one way of trying to you know encourage our foster culture within organization by actually communicating core values letting people know this is there and then we have to embody it by in real life we have to live this out in real life and then i've just explained it here so okay so having understood that i want to spend a little bit of time here talking about contrasting culture so you will understand you know why culture is so important and why this can actually either build the organization or tear it down right so i've put the stable and just you know contrast so let's look at it among leaders and then there's something about among staff so really these are actually attitudes that people carry and if these attitudes are embodied by leaders it's going on the right side it's going to result in a very toxic or unhealthy culture which is going to hurt a lot of people and it is not good for the organization but in contrast to that you know here these are healthy attitudes and we're talking about leaders leaders means they could be the pastors they could be the heads of various departments they could be you know leaders of different ministry areas and so on right so look at the contrast suppose there is a leader who's very dictatorial just do what i say oh people you know it's like okay whatever i say you have to do there is no option to discuss there's no option to talk there's no option to share ideas and opinions that's a very dictatorial type of leader and you can imagine you know if that is happening at all levels because what the leader does you know at all levels the people behave like this what you know it will be so repressive it won't give people an opportunity to share ideas and it's not going to be very healthy opposite to that is a consultative approach meaning let's discuss everybody's welcome share your ideas share your thoughts let's put it all together let's take the best ideas and then work out a solution so that's you know if a leader is like this it's a very healthy culture people feel they belong they can contribute so on think about you know another wrong something that's very abusive you know where a leader can and abuse can come in many ways typically in organization it comes in the way a leader speaks if a leader speaks in a very abusive way you know he's very he speaks you know he uses hopefully it won't happen in church but in a church organized Christian organization but he uses you know words that are destructive words that are putting people down so it's abusive you know if a leader calls people like that and then this has happened in some churches you know where the past the senior pastors is very abusive towards people may not be using filthy language but he's using harsh words that is abuse that is very overpowered and very suppressive people will be hurt they may stay there for as long as they can because they may love the church they may love the people they may love the ministry but in the process they're going to get hurt but in contrast to that you need to have what will create a healthy culture leaders who are encouraging who speak very supportive or encouraging the people rather than abusing somebody makes a mistake they don't say you know you useless fellow you're good for nothing no they say hey it's okay you know try again or why don't you make this change or you know why don't you try this thing so what is that that's a very encouraging support not an abusive leader or leaders if you know if there's unhealthy competition you know so sometimes leaders stack people against each other this hey look that person did like this what are you doing so it's an unhealthy competition it's actually fostered by the leaders they're intentionally you know putting people against each other creating a sense of unhealthy competition whereas if the leader or opposite to that is the leader fosters team work so then he says hey you know so he always celebrates the team of course there are individuals who may be appreciated the you know the leaders and so on but ultimately it's the team that did it and the team did the work and we celebrate the team we do recognize the person who carried responsibility will let the team that's sure that's true but we recognize that the lead that leader could not have done it without the help of the team so there is you know that that that creates a healthy culture of team so like this you can contrast you know and all of these things are are things that are actually have actually been noticed you know these toxic things I said I'm not talking about just organizations you know you know in the corporate world these are things that are seen in the church in Christian organizations people behave like this and they could be manipulative they could be controlling they interfere in all the choices and decisions they are they could be secretive sometimes especially in mega churches you see the pastor being treated like a celebrity he expects to be treated like a celebrity superstar you know he will stay in five star hotels the rest of the team will stay you know on some small lodge somewhere there's this big disparity between the senior pastor and people because senior pastor is considered celebrity superstar he becomes a brand of the organization and these are real things that happen you know we see or the the leader is egotistically thinks it's all happening because of him and doesn't realize that there's so many people who are contributing to the success of the organization or you may say you know it's entitled to it it's my right I deserve this you know for whatever reason a leader could be autocratic there's not a count to countable to anybody else I don't answer nobody can ask me questions kind of thing or I'm better than all others I know more than you etc so these are things I've not just made up but these are things I've put down because these are seen actually in church contexts and and Christian organization contexts and if the leader behaves like this and if the leader behaves like this it's going to damage the organization it's going to damage people who are in the organization right but for each of these I've put the contrasting value you know in so superior TV celebrate each other's strengths and this this has to flow from the leader you know the leader should be answerable you know when you should be let people ask questions and you know give honest answers there's got to be fairness and each one is rewarded based on performance not we should celebrate you know the team we did it together celebrate said success so these are the contrasting values if they are these are embodied by the leader it's going to foster a healthy culture in the organization okay now just before we close similarly I'm not while you know the main weight like I said is on the leaders people also people in the organization can also impact culture you know and I'm just impact the culture of the organization I'm just making a few observations few comments here so if a person or if a person working the organization has this attitude you know I just hold my job they just hold on to the job meaning they just show up do a little work but they're not motivated beyond that it's going to be very detrimental right they're doing it just for the sake of a job what should be the opposite and the better value is there should be passion I'm giving my best this is not just a job it's my passion I've got to get or I'm just doing a nine-to-five thing you know just a contrast to it is I wanted to excellent work it's not about the nine-to-five but I want my work to be really good I want to be proud of the work I gave or it's I'm at it seriously I just do my job I don't care what others do no it's not about not just about your job but it's can be this is about us together so I will help others to succeed as well you know so these are contrasting even among the staff among the people working these are values and if what I've put on the left side here if we can help people the leaders very important as well as the staff you know embrace the right values that you know the things that give that that can foster a healthy culture and if we work with this then we will be able to have like what I mentioned you're a very healthy organizational culture and this will spill over into the congregation so volunteers or serving in the church or in the organization will imbibe the same culture so they also will start behaving like this they also will be you know having these these same attitudes and then it'll spill over into the congregation the congregation also begin to model it and sorry follow the same example they also will begin in the church uh we'll have a healthy culture all the way through from the leadership in the organization and all the way through the volunteers and the church congregation it'll be a very healthy culture people come and they say like there's something nice about this congregation there's something nice about the people here you know we're able to see this otherwise when people come if you know for example if the pastor is treated like a celebrity and he's you know very authoritative and dictatorial and so on people come and they will recognize hey pastor is treated like this this is what's happening now some people will stay because they they don't it doesn't matter to them they just want to come and attend the service and go or for them yeah pastor has to be treated like a superstar and they may not see they may not discern that that's a problem and that is a problem so they may just stay but for people who are discerning people who care about the church who care about the kingdom of god they're not going to accept these kinds of behaviors and attitudes either from the leaders or from the people there's something is wrong you know this is not healthy for people to understand the importance of culture they will not tolerate this you know they will not accept it and in in urban centers in urban in cities people do understand these things you know maybe you know in the village or rural areas people are not so aware of these these things they you know they may overlook it but in the cities people do recognize what is a healthy culture in an organization in the church okay this is a healthy place to be i can i'm safe here or they will recognize no this organization this ministry this church things are toxic things are unhealthy you know people are being controlled people are being manipulated the pastor is abusive the pastor is treated like a superstar the pastor is you know dominating you know and then they're going to withdraw they're most people withdraw from such kind of a situation so i'm going to pause here i'm just kind of you know we've just introduced this whole idea and and i did this contrast so that you could get an idea of what we are actually talking about we have about 10 more minutes we will see you know if we have any questions any thoughts on this from an organization from a church point of view you want to discuss something we can do that any questions any thoughts on this uh pastor steven here yes uh pastor i mean how to overcome this pastor if in case you know these cultures are not embodied you know into leaders or into the uh the staffs uh in an organization then how to uh you know overcome that uh how to deal with it uh you know when the person initially comes you know he comes with all these cultures the values and all of that but you know eventually uh it changes so how to you know deal with that pastors that's that's a good question in fact the next class we have to we'll be looking at it in detail but let me just give a quick i think you know so first uh is we have to keep watch we have to keep watch over the whole culture thing and uh we will give a few questions the next class on you know how do you check you know what are some ways you can check if uh people are aligned to the culture that we want to maintain right because culture has to be safeguarded otherwise it can be diluted it can go off in some other it can go off in some other direction and it can become very negative actually so we have to observe we have to guard and then depending on where things are it has to be addressed now it may have to be addressed at an individual level so if it's only one person who's disturbing the culture then you sit down and you can explain things to the person and we talk we have conversations and look you know in this here we you know we have we work as a team or in this place we you know we're focused on Jesus not ourselves whatever you know whatever that area is the needs areas that need to be so if it's an entire unit meaning a group of people then there has to be addressed with the group yeah and uh it has to be followed up it has to be followed up and monitored continue to monitor and if it is not going to change then the only ways to hey that individual other people and it really depends on you know how it's impacting the organization or impacting the church at large and if it is significantly impacting then we'll have to release them you know there's a look if we have to work with them if they're not willing to change and if it's still continuing to be detrimental then we need to safeguard the organization and and the the church so when I look back you know over the last 20 years in church there are certain decisions that I made certain people who had to let go or had to ask to step down simply because of this culture you know now you of course address that particular area of concern but the real reason behind it to say the culture is being disturbed by this kind of behavior by these kinds of actions that's not the culture we want to have and therefore you know of course we address it over time if it doesn't change that's when we have to let go because that culture is not aligned to what we want to see embodied you know we we're trying to be biblical we're trying to keep it kingdom culture but if that's being disturbed then you know has to be addressed yeah thank you yeah good now you know I just make this thing here now when we make these kinds of decisions actually it's very painful you know it's very painful even if I look back on these 20 years and I look at some of the decisions we've made which are basically more of a you know protecting the culture type decisions of course we address the behavior we had talked about hey this is what you've done and people know it then you make decisions it's painful because you know they're real people you love them but then and and and it seems like the wrong is not really big wrong it's having to do with the culture that's being affected and so you know how do you explain that and then you can't put measures on it you know you failed exam or you didn't pay money it's not like that right it's very subjective but yet it's it's there and then when you make those decisions it's it's difficult it's difficult for the people who are who have to be let go it's difficult to explain to others that this is the real reason this is the reason you know for people to see it to understand it is also not easy because hey the people are good people are good not questioning it but the behavior is impact having a negative impact and it's not that they're not talented it's not that they're not skilled they may be extremely talented they may be extremely skilled maybe you have a tremendous capabilities no questions on that but though it's the behavior and the impact of the behavior and the culture that's that's being addressed and that's a difficult thing and sometimes very painful but you have to do it in order to protect the organization as a whole and so some of those decisions are are very difficult and painful yeah yeah and and as I will be mentioning in next class you know sometimes or the big problem in the church today is they are afraid to make these decisions and because they don't make it the end result is the thousands of people are hurt hundreds of people are hurt now just give an example and this is you know the the the journey of a church in the united states and it's it was a church called mars hill started in 1996 and and the reason i'm sharing it is it's right now with the you know the the christianity today is doing a huge in is producing a wonderful wonderful podcast story it's a 12 part series it's it's going on right now it's being released and they're doing a complete storytelling on what happened to mars hill not from the point of pointing out the faults but highlighting the lessons we can learn and so you know you can go to christianity today calm and go to the podcast and and listen to it it's just amazing but it's also very shocking but anyway the point of the story is this the story of mars hill started in 1996 by a very small group of people there was actually three men who joined together and started the church began to grow and eventually the main pastor oh god what's his name yeah mark disco that's his name mark disco yeah so you know he he just was very very abusive so i mean that that the church actually was one of the fastest growing churches in america so this is between 1996 to 2016 you know the 20 year period um oh yeah so they leveraged they were the early churches who took took advantage of the internet and they they exploded so they grew up to about 15 000 people very fast and so but but the problem was the lead pastor mark disco became very abusive both with his staff and the congregation and some of his teachings were his part of his theology was very off but he would not listen to anybody and the sad part was the church was protecting him meaning church means the the leaders around until sometime they protected him why because he's the leader and you know things are happening churches growing people are coming to the lord so although he was very abusive um both in public and in private very just rough very rough very harsh with people nobody was taking him to task nobody was i mean there were a few people who tried but he wasn't going to listen to anybody you know until uh it reached a point where some people started saying hey we can't take this any longer people are being hurt and so on and uh eventually you know overnight within a few months the whole church collapsed everything gone a church of 15 000 people they had like 14 15 campuses around the united states just just exploding growth within a few months everything's gone the whole thing collapsed you know and so it's a it's very so the things that we're talking about is real you know the leadership affects the culture and what i want i brought up that story because one of the big problems that in retrospect yeah so the they're looking back at evaluating what happened one of the big problems was nobody was willing to address the problem that hey you're creating a culture like this by being like this you're you know you're you're affecting so many people this needs to change this cannot go on it is very difficult to address it and they kept quiet for a long time and finally when it began to be addressed then it was very disastrous but it was too late actually so the point i want to make is you know you have to carefully guard kingdom culture what did jesus teach us what is the word of god teaches that's what we want to see in the organization that's what we want to see in the church anything that is outside of it deal with it quickly deal with it early otherwise things could be disastrous we'll talk about it next week okay all right all right let's wrap up i hope things are clear we will continue this next week let's close and pray please anybody you can just pray with us and then we will dismiss loving heavenly father we just come into your presence of father god thank you for this wonderful day and thank you for the session of father god as we learned about the culture of father god it helped us to create and help us to nurture this healthy culture in our church in our organization of father god let us carry this model everywhere we go father god let us be testimony to all the people around the father god also let us have compassion for people of father god jesus let us let us be loving and kind to other people who serve who we serve in the church and the organization of father god jesus and no matter what of father god let us always stand for good of father god jesus and also we do all these to honor your name and glorify your name of father god let us be careful to give all the glory and order to your father god thank you we submit this entire day into your hands a lot jesus we praise you you honor your name of father in jesus name i pray this fire of father god amen thank you everyone have a good uh good afternoon see you again so bye now thank you thank you