 What about another key factor in terms of your situation? Yes, you can ask why about that as well. But how do you know if you're in the right situation or not? I think, yeah, that's definitely really fascinating. And in a wild way, to extract a little bit from this identity of stoicism, which is where you don't have the ability to control what happens to you, but you have the ability to influence or control what you actually do. And I think life is multifaceted. Sometimes good shit happens, other times shitty things happen, right? The only thing we can change is what we do. And so, I've just finished reading David Goggins' second book and a big fan of his stuff, but he comes from a really hectic upbringing and some shitty shit happened in his past, but he's like, man, I can choose to cast a blame externally or I can take responsibility of what I have in my hands now. And I know it can be challenging and certain situations suck, but I think there's a time and place to grieve and I think that's fucking important. I think you should go through the pain and strife and not numb because I think the breath of the human experience is to enjoy the highs and the low. Welcome to the Sevo show. We are back and as always, Hunt and Brew comes in clutch, as always, the coffee from Australia, from Western Australia, made from coffee beans all over the place. And there's this one particular Brazil boots. No added sugars and it's just, again, ingredients, full cream milk, cold brew coffee, water. That's it. That is it. So if you want some good shit inside you and you're a fan of coffee, this is good shit, so get it inside you. Hashtag Hunt and Brew. Yeah, I'm getting better with those. That was not scripted at all. And how do you reckon I went, Luke? I reckon you did pretty good, man. You listed out what was needed to say, great brand awareness recognition and a little bit of detail of where it's from. I don't drink coffee, but now I'm curious. Yeah, excellent. There you go. We're maybe onto a winner. So speaking of Luke, how you going? Good, man. I'm doing really good. Thank you for having me on the show. Very excited. So we've got Luke and on social media, you're just Luke, like Madonna, like Jay-Z, Beyonce. And I had a bit of a stalk and I found the name Andrew. Yeah. Apparently it's not your last name. It's not my legal last name, which is quite funny. It's funny. I guess on social media I go by Never Luke Warm. Yeah. And I've had people ask me if my name was Luke Never Warm. Yeah. And I'm like, yes, but no. I understand the logic. But my legal last name is actually two letters. It's Luke AJ. So it's A space J. Kind of like Homer Simpson, but with an A. Pretty much. Homer J. Homer J. Yeah. That's it. It's like, what is his last name? Luke AJ. Cool. I'm never going to know. And where's that from? It comes from our parents. And their parents as well. It's just one of those weird naming conventions. Yeah. Like a surname. Yeah. It's the thing. So what's your background? My background. So I'm from Singapore originally. And I guess like a little bit of my life story is from Singapore. I never really grew up there. I kind of grew up all over the place. So when I was really young, I moved to Sumatra. I went to an American school for two years. That's why I sound like this. Back to Singapore for a little bit. Then I moved to Jakarta. I went to a British school for another six years. Still sounding like this. Back to Singapore, two years in the military. And I've been in Australia for about nine years now. Wow. And what made you do a two-year stint in the military? In the military. So I had to. So conscription was the thing. My dad was also in the military. So it was kind of like, I didn't feel like it'd be scary or intimidating. And I was kind of curious, you know? And like in all honesty, when I left uni, all my friends had to decide like, oh, what are we doing? Like, you know, like in, sorry, when I left high school, they had to decide in terms of what they're going to do for uni. But I was just like, I'm going to the military. You know, it's like two years I didn't have to really think. I could just like execute in a way. So you were like just barely an adult and you were like, yep, militaries, that's it. Yeah, that's what I had to do. And what did you learn from that experience? Yo, great question. I think I learned a lot. I think like you learn like the basic skills. Like you learn about discipline, you learn about resilience and how to just like prepare yourself and hold yourself. But then I also learned like, things that I didn't want to be, you know? And I think one thing about the military is it, it kind of dehumanizes you slightly because you're in this hierarchy and you follow orders. And that was, that was it, you know? And you didn't really have the ability to express your ideas or if you're creative and you're like, oh, what do we do with this or that? That wasn't really welcomed. And I knew that that's cool for a season and I'll pick up the skills that I wanted to, but it's also not how to live all my life, you know? And when you moved to Australia, did you ever pick up like a corporate job or anything like that? I guess, yeah, a little bit. Like I pretty much moved to Australia and I went straight into uni. And so that first year I didn't work at all and I didn't even do any volunteering. And I think like my journey kind of started with volunteering before I actually started working, which is quite funny. So yeah, I'm trying to segue like a comparison between the military life and work life in Australia. Because in the work life in Australia, you're kind of under command. You work in nine to five, you have to be there at a certain time of day and you clock out a certain time of day and every thing in between you have to account for. Otherwise you don't have a job, right? I mean, it's not as hardcore as the military. You can be a little bit more creative and intuitive and whatever, but it's not like a life or death, like the military. And I avoided conscription. I'm originally from Russia. Yeah, nice. And I'm not trying to compare countries or backgrounds or anything like that. But from my uncle's experience, he goes, yeah, definitely don't come back here. Don't come back here until you're 30 because I think that was a lot like. That cut off date. Yeah, cut off date. You have to worry about it. No, just fine. I think it was actually 27, but that was specifically more Russia, not where I'm from, which is now Kyrgyzstan, before that was Soviet Union. My mom was always like, let's get a Russian passport again. I'll be good for you. I'll be good for you. And now I'm glad we did it because of all the shit. But yeah, conscription, man, like I was like, I mean, I've seen the movies and things like that. It's nothing like the movies, as they say. Here you've got the army reserves, things like that. Did you ever do anything with that space here? No, I haven't. I have considered the reserves and I have had friends that consider it. I think like it is a cool opportunity because one, everything that you earn in the reserves is tax-free, which is pretty cool. And I think the point that you made about, I think how different countries run their military would vastly define your experience. I can only speak for the one that I had, but say my kids wanna join the Australian military, I'll be so much more open to that, but say maybe if they're in a country like where you're from, you just think about how hard or intense it could be and also with time as well. I think I know that the Singapore military, the way it's run now, compared to say my parents or their parents like here in the stories as well is completely different. And I think like age has a bit of a benefit in that way too. So yeah, so you finished that up. You're now here. You started uni. What did you study at uni? So I did my undergrad in sports science and physiology. Then I did my honors in sports science and neuroscience, which is a pretty exciting year. And then I actually took some time off uni. Did a little bit of work, kind of lived my best life a little bit. And then now I'm in med school. So I've just finished my first year of med school. Gonna become a doctor. Yo, that's it. Dr. Ajay. Dr. Ajay. I know, right? Do I go Dr. Ajay or do I go Dr. Luke? Dr. Ajay kind of sounds like a sinister villain. Either way, it works in a corner. Yeah, I guess. That's true. So what sort of doctor do you want to be? Great question. I think when I was younger, I had these ideas. Now I'm leaning more to maybe pediatrics to a kid because I think there's a child that always exists within me. Maybe in sports medicine. So in my honors year, I was privileged enough to work with a free mental football club as my population. So I got to see what it's like to be in elite sport. And I think that'd be pretty cool too. Or if not maybe orthopedic surgery, but it's funny the time in which I spent off uni before I got into med school and exploring around, just being exposed to, I guess, other ways of knowing. So I'm of Indian descent. And so my grandmother is big on Ayurvedic medicine and its ability to heal and repair. And growing up in Asia and Singapore, you see traditional Chinese medicine as well. And some things seem really mystical, but then they also have weight. And I would say I'm very much a scientist at heart and I love the scientific method, but it also doesn't discount these other knowledges. Because to me, the scientific method is powerful. And you know, like, oh, this is empirically true, right? Because we can test it, repeat it, validate it. But if it can't be quantified at science, does it mean it doesn't exist? It's kind of like saying, whether you say, for example, if you did yoga, you can measure that, oh, there's a reduce in your heart rate. That's easy to measure, right? But if I said, like, oh, I actually have a greater sense of peace, or the stress has been liberated, like where's my stress meter? You know, that's indirect measures. It doesn't mean it's not true and you can't experience it, but it doesn't devalue the knowledge that we know from those experiences. And so I think like it's funny now, like the more I go through med school and stuff, like I want to keep a very open mind in terms of like health and wellness, and also, yeah, kind of integrate some of the other stuff too. So in terms of specialty, I guess to answer your question, it sounds wild, but I'm also kind of curious if I could potentially develop or create a specialty of my own, you know, one that takes the knowledge and the understanding that we know from medicine, but also to be a little bit more holistic in that space too. Now, with so many avenues I can take this deal. Yeah, hell yeah. So many. I had one way and now I'm like, oh, this way first. Going through a university medical institution, they teach you a specific way. Yeah. How do you feel about them teaching in a specific way, getting your degree, getting your doctorate and then kind of deviating from that? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. And that's such a powerful question. So before I guess like entering med school, I've had like a little bit of experience in the medical like field. I've had like a shoulder injury when I was in the military. Like my dad had some like a couple heart attacks and just like, you know, you get to deal with bite-sized pieces of life, right? And in my mind, I felt like medicine or like conventional Western medicine deals with a lot of like say, drugs and surgery. Like they always prescribe drugs, right? But in med school, I'm like, all we talk about is drugs, you know? And I think like, like you're more likely to act on what you know, you know? And that's the only thing you talk about. That's like, it's safe, you know? I wouldn't want to recommend something I don't understand, right? I think like the point that you brought up is really interesting, you know, that conflicting value and ideal. And that's why like when I was earlier, younger, my progression, I used to think like, hey, like maybe I'd be like pediatrics or whatnot. But now the more I think of it is I might have that qualification, but I also may not practice it classically or conventionally, you know? And I think there's power in education. And the more you like learn and experience, and I guess like some of the other things that I do in my life, like say, for example, Colnips and whatnot, we get to do some stuff that may not be empirically like a treatment for depression, you know? Or treatment for like this or that or whatnot. But you see people have positive outcomes from it. And in a wild way, like I can kind of see myself having that medical qualification as just like I've got paperwork. And it's like, trust me, I'm a doctor, trust me, I know what I'm talking about. But then it's like, this isn't the only way, you know? And part of me is curious, because do I affect change in terms of the general population? But then also someone's clinicians need to be informed, you know, like we talk so much about like, like we know the value of nutrition and how it can influence the quality of your life. But in med school, we don't spend a lot of time actually looking at food as fuel or as a tool, you know? And you look at it this way, like, what are the things you need to survive other than like air and water, it's food, you know? And that variability can be such I'm just getting factor for your wellness. The right food as well. But before we go into nutrition, because again, so many more avenues, I'm like, I've got a web of questions all of a sudden. Yeah, let's go. So you've got, I'm kind of going parallel here with my experience as a school teacher. I was taught the education system a certain way. And then I kind of looked at it like, it's kind of outdated now because of the technology, the digital space has gone so quickly. I'm gonna come in and do my own thing and I nailed it really well. But as a doctorate undergrad medical student, all of those correct? Who knows? So as a medical student, you're itching to finish so you can create your own thing, like you said. But how do you create your own thing where you're still dipping into the industry and you need to get some hours up? And are you gonna try and find someone that matches your vibe? Or are you going to do the hours in a hospital? Or, you know, just so you can have enough grounding and then kind of do your own thing eventually because what I've observed in the health industry, especially from a carous perspective and from like physios and OPs and things like that, is they have that drive. They come into the industry, but they need a job. They need a job somewhere, same with education. They need a job, they jump in, but then that job kind of deflates them, not kind of, but deflates them because they go, no, you have to do it like this. Crosses your reality, yeah. Crosses your, like you have to do it like this. You can't be creative. You can't be holistic. You can't bring in Chinese medicine because that's not what we do here. How are you gonna combat that if that comes to you? No, great question. Hey, I think like one thing that comes to mind is when I was at uni, you'd have two kinds of lecturers or educators. You'd have the people that have pretty much been in academia all their lives and then you've had the people that have gone out there, worked a little bit and then they've like come back to teach, you know? And classically, call it my bias, but I tend to have more respect for someone who's been in the field and has returned to it, you know? Cause like you talk about so much of tertiary education and I think you talked about learning being outdated, especially when it comes from some sources, it's like you learn so much on the job or on the fly, right? And I think there's such value in that too. And I think like some of the things you brought up is like epic considerations for myself. And I definitely want to work and actually be in the field before I can advise to it, you know? Grateful that in the medical course in itself is elements of like prac and engagement. And I actually do have some friends that have just graduated and are starting right now and people in different levels as well. But it's funny, so I was literally telling a friend like I think like for the trajectory of my life, I like to have overarching goals of like where I wanna hit, but some of the nuances, I sometimes don't stress or plan about too heavily and I'll just kind of figure out as it goes. And I think like with that question there, like I think I do have the ability to worry about it now, but I think I wanna keep it as like a later consideration and as I progress through this course, I can define that avenue. And in a wild way, it's like, I think there's a couple of things that can influence our motives and also what we end up executing. And I think like we live in a capitalistic world, like money's really important, right? I know like doctor friends that work locum so don't work every day of the week and they're able to have passion projects and do other stuff as well. So I don't know, maybe that could be a reality for me and I think I have like these three, four years to actually build myself as a doctor professionally or in that classical knowledge that we kind of spoke about, but also the ability to upskill myself to learn and grow in a different way. And I'm grateful because I guess like, if you talk about health, there's kind of like two sides to it, right? There's like to be well, which is the wellness space and to be unwell, which is kind of like conventional medicine. I'm grateful that I come from the wellness background in terms of like movement and fitness and exercise and being exposed to some of these other modalities. And I guess I'm learning about the structure and the formality of disease and pathologies and all that jazz, right? And I think as I learn a little bit more, I guess in both the ability to bring them together somehow. But in all honesty, I can't give you a clear answer because one, I'm not there and two, I don't have a clear narrative, but I love that you brought it up and I'm curious to see how that answer might be in maybe five years time. You know what that practice might look like, you know? I've always been for the education system again. I never wanted to be a school teacher originally. Yeah, cool. My mom was a school teacher. Her mom was something else and my great grandma, she was a mathematician and I ended up teaching maths, you know? Great for me. But I started uni at 24. So I had five years of adult life under my belt. And it worked really well because I came into the school system at the age of 27 having extra four years of life and I was playing footy and I was doing all this other stuff. And I had so many analogies, little stories, things that I could share with the kids and they would always say, sir, you'd come in and you would tell us some real shit. You'd tell us some cool stuff that you did, whether it was yesterday or five years before, most of the other teachers don't have that. They'd have that cool relief teacher that comes in. But that's because that relief teacher does other stuff and it's just like, there's a balance. But yeah, for me, it's like, I feel that finishing school and then going straight to uni is a big L because you don't really know for sure what you want to do. And if you stick to it and you stay in it, you may not realize that there's so much more out there and you kind of pigeon hold yourself, you tunnel vision yourself. Some people, it works. Some people like, they get lucky early on in life. They're like, this is what I want to do. And that's where self-awareness comes in. I talk about it all the time. No, 100%. Yeah, with your, going back to the medical side, and this is something that's happened recently, as recent as last year, talking about how doctors are now considered drug, drug lords, drug dealers. Yeah, dispensary. Have you heard that before? I've not heard that before, but I can definitely understand that narrative, yeah. So what happens is we, as a human society, go to the doctors with a problem. And that problem is fixed majority of the time with medication. And this is where the holistic side comes in. And I come from the mountains of Russia where my grandma would say, if you're sick, eat an orange. If you're really sick, boil some potatoes with the skin on them and breathe in the air after you've boiled them. That shit worked. If you've got a cough, put some honey in your tea with the drop of lemon, go for it. And that shit worked, you know? Obviously not medical advice, but, and then we get, here's a pill, here's a pill, here's a pill, here's a prescription to the pill. And what I see more and more and more of is we damage our gut health because the immune system is in your gut. Yeah, 100%. Right? And we get rid of these little, I watched this podcast the other day, so it's like fresh in my mind. Yeah, let's go. With the diary of a CEO. Yeah, so good. Trying to remember his name. But what I learned from that was you need to not kill your... Got microbiomes, yeah. Microbiomes, and we're killing them with, you know, all these pesticides and things like that. And drug, yeah, and drugs. So we're saving ourselves temporarily, putting a Band-Aid on where we're not going to the root of the problem, we're going straight to a solution, which isn't a solution. Like, I would rather go, hey, what if there's a way to train yourself out of being celiac? Instead of going, let's take these tablets or let's not have, you know, pasta or whatever. So with saying that, there's a question at the end of this, what are your thoughts on the future of medicine where you're going to be deep in on that mindset? Like, how do you come in and bring in and go and solve the problem by attacking the problem, not just peppering? Just like, yeah. What are your thoughts? Man, 100%, like I share that narrative so much. And I think it's a little bit like some of the stuff we alluded to before, which is, I think like, yeah, medicine is very trying to, you know, trying to bring you, trying to... It's very, like, it's a fix, you know, it's a quick fix. Like in my mind, conventional medicine tries to bring you from unwell to baseline, well, health and wellness tries to bring you from baseline to thriving. I want to put money in the bank for a rainy day when shit goes down, you know? And I think what you said is really potent. And I think what's really cool is that maybe in the past, we used to be more a law abiding and just, we just follow along like, that's what Doc said, you know, but people and I think the consciousness of our generation or our society is people are curious, people are learning and they want to know more, you know? And they're not just going to like take it as it is, which is epic. And I think like in a wild way, like maybe medicine or health, like as a collective might need to shake up its identity and re-evaluate the way in which it practices because it runs quite, like as a utility, you know, we're just out here to fix. And I think there's a couple of different pressures that affect that. I think that like, like, for example, you think about GPs and how they just don't have a long time. You come in that you don't really get to know person. You're kind of like, this is going to be someone I can tell my most intimate things, even maybe more than a partner or someone, you know, like valuable in your life, right? But you see them for like, what, seven, 12 minutes. Like the ability to really connect with someone and open that can be quite challenging. And then often the fix that you give you is like what you said, man, it's just like, here's a click and then you're on to next, right? And how much can that actually better it? And you're right, so many of these drugs and stuff, they put so much strain in your body. And then as an extension, like maybe not so much here, and it's more true in America, but the weight of the pharmaceutical companies and what they lobby for and the amount of pressure that they put on different stuff and on that cost too. And I think like they lobby for so much research that is pharmaceutical like pro supports that and they suppress some of the other stuff as well, you know, and then you don't actually hear about some of the more simpler things you can do that have such a rampant health benefit, which is sad because our society, I guess, being quite capitalistic is focused on where that money trail is. And so I think it's cool because there's a lot of, there's quite a few people out there that do produce like free information and want people to just know and learn and be better because that's how you better our society. And so how I feel is like, I think there's clearly a demand for people who want to learn more. And I think like I feel personally that if I have that qualification of medicine, it's like I have an understanding, you know, it's not just like, I mean, no disrespect because like I feel like my grandmother was the same thing. She's like, do this, do that, like cook up this herb and she'll just like at the stove, right? And I believe her because she's my grandmother and it did work, you know, I experienced that, but some people might have some skepticism, especially if you come from the realm of like science and like, oh, I read this paper or that, that having a little bit of credibility but then relating that with what's known as well. I think it's a really interesting space and I think people wanna better the quality of lives, you know, the people that are actually curious and keen want that, like I was actually having a chat today about the diary of CEO and when they interview all these CEOs, the two things that they always say is they wish they had more time with family or connection with the people in their lives and the second thing is their health, you know, minus all the awards and acclimations that they earn, like those are two fundamental things, you know? Absolutely, yeah. That is a very common trait that they speak about. I look at, and it's hard to talk about this from my perspective because I don't remember the last time I was sick, I don't. Like define sickness, like I've had, I remember one cough that I had for about a month but it was like, I wasn't ill, I didn't take me out. Like my definition of sick is you need to stay in bed. Yeah. Even then that's not good for you either, you know? You need sunlight, you need oranges and vitamin C, I'm big on, I'm big on, yeah. And that's literally what I did when I had the cough because I got over it, I was like, fuck this, you know? And I was there and I couldn't figure it out because I would be having shallow breaths and I'd be fine, but every now and then I'd have a deep breath and then it'd just be a cough. And I'm like, all right, there's some phlegm or something there. Yeah, it's clear. Didn't take any, oh, I tried cough medicine, but it didn't work and I didn't, yeah, nothing. And then over time it was actually the potatoes that worked. Yeah, which is fascinating. The potatoes, but over the last eight years, apart from that, maybe that purchase of cough medicine for that one thing, I don't remember the last time I took a day off because I was unwell. Unwell, yeah. I've never gotten COVID. Now I said the word COVID and there's gonna be a fucking flag on the YouTube episode saying learn more about COVID, you know that? COVID, there you go. Good luck. The internet. It's just like, you know, I didn't get it. And maybe I didn't show symptoms and I didn't test for it because I wasn't, you know, not unwell but whatever, but I talk about it with people because I'm like, oh, you're unwell. Oh, you had to have a day off or your Mrs. is unwell. I'm finding it hard to be empathetic because I just haven't been sick. I'm just like, for fuck's sake, you know, like get on with it. But then I'd go down that path of asking them questions like how you're eating, how much you're exercising, how much water you're drinking. And those traits are very common. They're like, oh, I'm not getting that much sleep. I'm drinking alcohol too much. And yeah, they're cooked. And I'm like, how come this, how come we're not focusing on health? How come we're too busy to do that? And even though last year was probably one of my most unhealthiest years, people throw in collaborations and try our restaurant out, chicken wings, this burger, this and you know. Full scheme. You know, I gained weight, but I wasn't unwell. And it's just like, maybe there's a point where if I kept going, start to get ill again. You know, you might have had money in that bank. Yeah, I reckon I do, you know. And there's another study that I saw recently. They said that the taller you are, the more nutrient you were in the early in life. And I was like, surely that's just genetics. But those genetics came from parents who are healthy. Yeah, right. And not dissing the short people, but there's so many different ways you can approach this study or whatever it is. And for me, I personally think it comes down to gut health. Yeah, gut health. You got a leaky gut. You're gonna probably have problems and your children. When I was a personal trainer, because I know you say you're a personal trainer too, I didn't really like doing the personal training at a point where I had to talk about nutrition too much because I didn't know much about it, but I would read things. And I wasn't a nutritionist, so I was technically not allowed to give them that advice. Thank you for saying that. But there was a general pattern that I found that I remember one client, she had diabetes and her parents were the healthiest people. I was just like, how does that work? Is it their lifestyle at the time? Was it the cravings that the mum had, or was it just an unfortunate delight? It's like, you never know, everybody's so different, but everyone's quick to jump to conclusions. And when one thing that's fixed them, like one of my pet peeves is, oh, I weeded off animal products and I was cured. And then now they're advocates for being vegans. And I'm just like, that's not how it works. So what are your thoughts about the general society now when it comes to all these different, like, oh my God, I lost 20 kilos because I was on keto. I lost 15 kilos because I was doing intermittent fasting. Everyone should try it. We've all been sucked in somewhere or another. And everyone's talking about when Shane Warn passed away, he was on a juice cleanse diet. Maybe that's what killed him. Just like, who knows? So what advice would you give to people who are trying to find their most optimal kind of healthy path no matter what that age they are? What advice would you give them? Yeah, great question. I'll answer it through a scientific lens. And so I guess like when we do research and we always talk about like, oh, research has just shown, you always see like a stupid Facebook ad, right? Like, you know, and it can get actually quite pestering. One, because I think sometimes people don't understand the power of research and what actually, like research can be good or bad. That can be shitty papers. That can be manipulated to be presentable or be favorable. And like what that funding or whatever that might be as well. Like pharmaceutical companies, for example, they fund a lot of research. And there used to be this thing where, yeah, man, legit, if things are not palatable the way that people want, they just don't publish it, you know? But there's new like standards that's trying to get, like no matter what research or outcome you get, if it's like funded by X, Y, and Z, like it has to be published and it's accounted for, which is kind of cool. I digress is, say for example, like I'm like a scientist in heart and so like say, if I read a study or whatever the study might be like, okay, like eating, I don't know, like say for example, consuming beetroot is good for cardiovascular health, right? And so the science behind that has a little bit of merit, which is like beetroot rich in, this is free science for you guys, but like beetroot is rich in nitrites that gets converted to nitrous oxide. That causes vasodilation. So it's good for your, so your blood vessels can flow or your blood can flow a little bit better and it's better for your health in general, right? But then the thing is research, to make a research powerful in the scientific or statistical sense, and I guess you're a mathematician at heart, so you can interrogate me as well, is you need like a large sample size, right? Oh yeah. And so for it to be purposeful, you form a bell curve and then you try to see what the average of that result is. But the thing is, is where forming knowledge based on the general average of what that might be. But the extension of that is sometimes there's a lot of stuff that happens around or like you hear these trends and stuff, but the result is meant to be of the average. But the thing is we know that you and I differ, you know? And so I think it's important to like to kind of exist between the two, which is know that there is this massive body of knowledge, but you are also like we like to say N equals one, you're a sample size of one, right? And so there might be something that's like incredible for your friend Dave, like maybe it might be veganism or maybe it might be X, Y, Z, but you and Dave might have completely different lives. Like for example, if we contrast you and me, like maybe even if we both live in Perth oral lives, like your ethnicity, your heritage is from a different part of the world and so is mine as well. So maybe the way your body might respond to even like say sniffing potatoes or like the way oranges and whatnot is completely different, right? You know, like we live in such a like industrial, like evolve society where you can get whatever you want, but our body hasn't evolved in that rate, right? And so there's things that are in us that are still that play lineage to our past, you know? And sometimes it's kind of nice to think about one are ancestors in terms of what like, maybe like seven or 10 generations of what they might have done and then two is an extension like us as a society as well and what that influence might be. Yeah, and also like if your ancestors, that seven to 10 generations, what's the average lifespan? Has it been a good run or has it been a not so good run? How do you, for me, my grandpa passed away at 68, my uncle passed away at 49. So my average is fucked, but they were in Russia, right? And the Russians, they like the vodka and the vodka, you know, slow death, even a fast death depends on how much you drink. That's it. But for me, it's like, I'm in good health and I'm like, right, I want to bring that average up and then teach my kids to really optimize that. And but yeah, I also want to make sure that, you know, when I'm talking to somebody else, they understand that. So then when they invite me out somewhere, they're not offended going, oh, shit, how come you're eating like that? And I'm like, that's just the way that I've optimized myself to eat. To live your life. And I'm not preaching a specific way to do it because that's the way that people should come about it. But we're also as a society like in Perth is for me, it's not an optimized city for the way that I need to eat. Like for me, I know that I thrive off of meat. Meat and sparkling water, Jordan Peterson's diet. And the fruit, the fruit gets me good, right? Vegetables, not so much, but there are vegetables that I love and I've been paying attention. Carbohydrates, not so much. Like I've been tested, I've tested it. And in my line of work now, what we're doing here, I need food, I need meat, you know, and then and there. And like, sometimes I, last year, bad habit, I'm like, all right, I need just meat. Kind of fries, Coke zero, no. What can I have? Oh, I'll go get chicken nuggets from Mackets. All right, that's just meat and some shit around it, whatever that is, whatever. And I was like, I felt good, no. Seed oils and deep fried and all that stuff and having 24 nuggets because I'm like, I'm six foot 10, I'm fine, I'm fine. No, no good. Plus the sauce and stuff like that. And that's kind of my journey, right? But now I wanna have that conversation where someone else can start beginning to trial and error for themselves and not just pigeonholing themselves. And I think it starts with, and this is my next question for you, with getting health tests, DNA tests and blood tests to really get to the bottom of your cellular structure to go, okay, not necessarily figure out what's gonna kill you quicker, but why wouldn't you? So you can better optimize your existence. No, 100% man. And I love what you said, because it's exactly the summation I was gonna bring, which is like, you take the knowledge that you receive, but then you are your own guinea pig. You know, you trial and error. You see what's good for you and whatnot. And I think that extension of playing so you can learn about, and that comes with the curiosity of self and even delving deeper into testing. But then also in terms of, I guess seeing if it's for you or not, you know? And I think that's really important as well. But yeah, I think it's funny, like it actually can be quite challenging for you to just get a blood test just cause you wanna know, you know, like the amount of like hoops that you have to jump through as well. I know there's a couple of ways around it, but it's like, why do they have such control and information that is about you, you know? Like, and it's so pertinent to your health as well. Can we like, conspire? Conspire? Can we conspire a little bit? Hey, I think like my narrative, I tend to believe that a lot of things exist because of capitalism. And it's whether like, I guess it depends like, who's funding this and maybe that the test could be maybe subsidized and as such, they might reduce like, if it has to be a meritful use of resources, but then also as an extension, if you wanna go like big and whatnot, which is like, if people learn more about their health and say, if call me like crazy, if I did a science experiment, if I was like, all right, for this whole month, I'm going plant based only. And then I'd test myself before and after. I'll get, I'll say a blood screening or something and I look at say my cholesterol levels and some other bits and bulbs. I'd get such a better understanding than just me just trying to maybe just feel, you know? Because the feeling is always different. Yeah, and it's so variable, right? And it's kind of like we talked about before, which is like, you can take the the regimentation of science and there's some merits in that like the ability to test and to just be very certain. And there's other things that you have to extrapolate and try to gain meaning from. And then maybe next month or the next couple of months I do meat only and meat and fruit, you know? And it's cool that like, like you're doing that and exploring with yourself and we're able to kind of gauge and understand because if you average out enough time, things tend to become clear, right? But you have the ability to just be like really deductive and just like, okay, like how is this change? Like your ability to actually know, learn and optimize yourself will be heaps better. And you have to stick to it. You have to stick to it. Cause I noticed that people, they stay, they try something for a week that may lose their body weight, the water in their body. Yeah. And then they go, oh, this is it. And then three months later that what the hell? They're like, yeah. And then they try something else and it just goes all over the place. And I really want to help people figure out because I have a science degree as well. Cause I studied science. Epic, cause I want to teach science to kids. Science, the essence of science. And I mentioned this today in my Instagram. The essence of science is trial and error, right? So you got trial and error. What does that mean? Well, you give it a trial. You'll find errors. When you find the errors, how do you know the errors? You would have, you have a goal. You have a hypothesis you have an aim, right? Write down all of that stuff and go, right. I want to know what makes me feel the best. Currently I'm doing this. Let's change one variable. You change too many variables. You won't get a clear picture. You won't get a clear picture. Oh, let's change one thing. But you got to make sure you document what else that you do at the same time. Cause you never know. And it even comes down to the time of the month. Girls comes down time to time of the year for the weather. Cause I know in summer, I'm not, I'm struggling. I'm not, I'm not a fan of summer. Yeah, I just, I'm just a cold, cold-blooded killer and from Russia, you know? But yeah, I use those errors to then inform and figure out like, okay, I've done enough trials. These are the errors because I felt like this. Oh, this one worked. Let's put that in the plausible pile. And compile them all and eventually we have a better understanding of oneself. But there's a factor in there that kills it all of it is patience. People aren't patient enough. So why do you think people aren't patient? They want that and going back to the capitalism thing and why medical things exist, the pharmacies exist. People want it now. Yes. And that's why pharmacies exist. They want a quick solution. They don't want a test. And this is my conspiry sort of thing. I feel like if people had that education and they had the patience and they started to really formulate a better understanding of one's health through their past, through their testing or through just general trial and error. That's it. The pharmacies will be struggling. Yeah, they wouldn't, you wouldn't need them, you know? Man, I'm self-worth that. I think like a way to help the solution is education and people just, even understanding the basics of certain things, having a sense of curiosity to interrogate and explore, I think is so pertinent. And your question, do you mind or just repeating that last question again? Trying to remember the question. Yeah, no, it can't be. Yes, so how do people get to that point where they can pretty much do what I just said? Like how do they, they're the optimal way, find the optimal way. And we'll talk a little bit about like patience and wanting things quickly, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we live in such a society where you can literally get everything you want at any point in time, you know? I guess like I'm grateful growing up as a kid, like things weren't as connected, like still remember dial-up and that iconic sound, you know? But like, I think like when you see the shortening of time that exists in our reality, like back in the day, like to communicate with someone across the world, it was a challenge. Now I can literally like FaceTime them. I can see what they're doing in an instant, you know? If they go to the internet, it's like boom. And I think when you close that, we almost like lose the illusion of time and that warps through. I think that leads to us feeling that in other states of our life. I can't remember the book right now, but there's this book about attention. And it's by this guy called Johann Hari. And it's an epic book because it breaks into like social media and the reasons why we're feeling. And also how social media is engineered and make us be addicted to these platforms and reduce that element, you know? But then also in our society, and it talks a little bit about education as well, which is really fascinating and learning and whatnot. But I think the thing I'll say is this, which is like if we wanted to relate like say pharmaceutical intervention, which is like a time quick intervention of sorts, but may not fix you as well compared to saying something like we're talking about, which is to understand the sense of self and interrogate that existence is if you were to contrast a meal that you got say from a microwave to an oven, you know? Like yeah, the microwave will feed you or you can cook like some stuff and you can like shimmy and make some stuff. But what's actually gonna be nutritious for you is a long-term that's purposeful and beneficial, you know? And I think like there's two ways that people can get to that. It's other if at some point in time from eating these microwave meals, they're like dude, my body doesn't feel so well, feeling well and they get curious and exploring their own. Some people sadly never get to that point and they just get detrimental and they don't live the life, you know, that expectancy they would talk about. But other times it could be maybe there could be someone else in their life that gives them the education or the vision and be like, hey man, what's that box in your kitchen? You know, like let's explore that, let's cook something up. And I think like a lot of what you've talked about in your passions as well, which is if we can educate people to just be even 1% more curious and maybe just interrogate a little bit of their decisions, their life can be so much more powerful, you know? It's funny, like I did a little bit of, I'm kind of into a little bit of philosophy. So I was looking at like Plato and Socrates, right? Plato talks so much as introspection as a way to find true happiness or understanding our lives. It's kind of cool because Plato says that we live in a time where there's celebrity figures and societal trends that make us live a certain way, you know? But it's cool when Plato says that because he's talking about life like 200, 300 years ago, not even now, but we still feel that effect, right? And it's kind of cool because it's like ways to find happiness and joy, whether it's like, and not to diss things like say maybe night clubs or alcohol partying or whatnot, but maybe that might be the thing for you. Maybe I might enjoy walks in nature or maybe spending time with my family or XYZ, but if I only live that lifestyle and I don't choose to question the life that I'm living, I may not actually find what truly brings me joy, you know? You're gonna trial it? Yeah, that's it, man. Trial and error back to that narrative. And so Socrates has this quote, which is, and I didn't use to understand it before, but now I love it, which is an unexamined life is a life not worth living. And so if you don't choose to examine your life and interrogate what makes you happy, what makes you sad, and you know to be in that existence that's of you is not worth living, it's because you fail to live your life for itself, but it's living by the societal pressure that exists around you, you know? The need to be always quick and rapid and fast, the need to just be fixed and just do X, Y, and Z, or the need to find false sense of happiness or joy that don't actually serve you for the human that you really are. I love that. And you fall into that kind of doing the same thing as everybody else who's doing the same thing as everybody else that herd sheep mentality. Rinse and repeat, man, cycle of life. So an unexamined life is not worth living because you gotta break the cycle somehow. Have you read about the Socratic method? Yo, yes, as in a way of exploring knowledge or knowing just by questions in itself? Yeah, that's my jam. Yeah, it's incredible, huh? It's such a cool way to know. And I guess like as an educator, you know? And I think in a while we all have the ability to be an educator, but like, no, it's so powerful, man. Because I think if I remember the narrative, I think was it Socrates found a street kid and was teaching him, maybe was it math? And he didn't explain stuff, but he just asked him questions and then that kid could just like reason stuff. Exactly. And I think it's either Plato or Socrates, they talk about like, there's like a high state where there's information that we all know and then we just like receive from there, but... So yeah, so pretty much, pretty much close enough. So I've got the Socratic method here, so you've got... Here's something I prepared earlier. So identify what you're thinking, step one. Then why do you think it, right? So let's say, or even an opinion, let's say you have an opinion, I will say to you, why do you say that? Then you give me an answer. Then I would go explain in more detail what you mean. And then you start to figure out if they're a brick wall or they come in in an aggressive manner, they have a one. You're essentially figuring out if you're going to be talking to a brick wall. Yeah. Because then there's no point. Yeah. It's wasting your time. And then you have, what is my reaction to these thoughts? And then challenge that thought. You've got to challenge that thought as well. It's like, is this always true? What you're saying, is it always true? Is it always true? With the exceptions. And then under what conditions? Is it not true? What assumptions am I making when you say that? Do I always have to react in this way to the thought? Yeah, well... You know, you're going in, you've got like a dichotomous key sort of, like a flowchart sort of thing, like all these different elements you have to unwind. But I've gone down to seven questions through the Socratic method. And there's a lot more, but most people in society don't get past the first one, maybe two. Yeah. Right? Yeah, truly. And that's like, my definition of this is really opening your mind both sides of the coin. And when someone talks about XYZ celebrity scandal or some thing that happened during 2020 that everybody's going, oh, did it happen though? Is doing this to your body going to actually save me? I came in on both sides of the coin and really dug deep and thought, why this, why that? And, you know, but when people label you for one direction, I want to go, okay, why do you label me in this? Have you thought about it and why I may think that? And most of the time they go, you know, you're an idiot. I'm like, why do you think I'm an idiot? Then you're into that whole philosophical, you feel like a psychologist. Yeah, you know, like, how does that make you feel, you know? But going, continuing this, you got to examine the facts behind your belief or their belief. Like, is my source reliable? Yeah, is it valid? That's probably the most key question of the latest decade. Is my source reliable? All this news that you hear is like, what source is it from? I saw it on TikTok, I saw it on YouTube. Yeah, I saw it on TikTok, I saw it on Fox, I saw it on Channel 9. Who controls that narrative? Yeah, right? The left, Rupert Murdoch, all this stuff. But then you go, are there any evidence to contradict it? People don't think about that. How do I know it to be true? Oh, he told me, how do you know that the person that told you that is true? Oh, what's your documentary about it? What's the agenda? What's the fun? What's the documentary? You know, like, what is it? You know, like, you've got these, and you go as far as journal articles, published journal articles and science journal articles who sponsored them. That's it, right? It's like, what is true? The answer is, well, have you gone down the rabbit hole enough to really validate your thoughts or are you just a sheep going, oh, you know? And then that creates conflict without understanding. So that's why I struggle to talk to these people that have these specific ideas who don't get past the first two questions, because it's not worth talking about, right? So the Socratic Method continues. Look at it from a different angle. You have to. Is it possible for someone to see it differently? Now, when you ask that to someone that has an agenda behind their kind of approach to me, most of the time they don't think like that at all. But if you open up that window of understanding and they go, hmm, I didn't think of it like that, then you're on to a potential safe sort of conversation. Then what would be their counter-argument? And that's how I communicate with people. Like, if I come in with an idea, I would automatically think about what they would counter-argue. So then I could help them educate or open up a sense of understanding from them so I can improve myself. So when went. And then explore implications and consequences. But if blank happened, what else would result? How does blank affect blank? So situation scenarios. And that's like a business thing as well. And then question the question, that's my favorite. Why do you think that I asked a question? What was the question? Why was the question important? And which of your questions turned out to be the most useful? So when someone says to me online, like Instagram, say, do you believe in this? What are your thoughts about this? I always respond with, why do you ask me this? Like not condescendingly, just curious. What brought you to ask me this question? Because I have to be careful. And this is like a lot of followers as well. Yeah, if you've got a bit of questions. They can come in and go, I'm gonna get this person. What are your thoughts about Palestine and Israel? I'm like, why do you ask me that question? I've never been to either. I'm not, you know, that's not my thing. I didn't study X, Y, or Z, Y. Right, like what are your thoughts on veganism as the optimal lifestyle? And I'm like, it's not for me. And they're like, oh, you're wrong. I'm like, what do you mean? And then I go through it. And then before you know it, I say, it's a brick wall. Okay. You know, because they're not asking more questions. They're just peppering the same thing. So Socrates, Socratic method, for me, that is like, ultimate, ultimate. You think like if we lived in a world where people even took like the first five questions more in their interactions. Oh my God. Like where we'll live in, you think about like conflict, you think about like education and understanding. I think a lot of people come with the intention and even like what we talked about before, people pushing their ways of like, oh, I just tried this. It's a game changer and I understand that. Yeah, good for you. You know, right? But then it's like people come with the identity to send information out, but never to receive or to have their ideas interrogated. Cause that's how you validate knowledge. You know, you test the null hypothesis. Yeah. And you know, you're going to gel together. Let's talk about your venture, your big venture that you started up, Cold Nips. Cold Nips, yes. Tell me about how that came about. No, a hundred percent. So I've got to pay credit to Gian and Orion. So that narrative started with, I actually met Gian of his second week in Perth. And so Gian's from Melbourne and he moved over to Perth and he was living in Perth from one point in time. What year was this? 2019 was when Cold Nips started. So a bit of a journey ago, but to make a long story short, I was hanging out with both the boys and we were just dipping and enjoying the simplicities. And Gian had come with the intention of wanting to start a run club. And then I guess the name that came about was actually Cold Dips. And Ryan was feeling a little bit cheeky. He was like, what do we call it? Cold Nips. Totally cheeky. Pull that out there. But long story short was just as simple as Nip-Dip-Sip is what we like to say. So we started off with 16 of us at Cortisol Beach and literally every week it just doubled and doubled and doubled. And then it just kind of grew to the state that it was, you know? That sense of belonging just grows, doesn't it? Yeah, it's crazy, huh? FOMO. Like yeah, FOMO, I think like, Gian's good at social media and all these like drone shots and stuff. And it's kind of cool that we created this platform only by social media, you know? Which is like, which is like super epic. A vibrant. Yeah, which is really cool. And in Perth. Yeah, I know in Perth we're all places and now we're grateful to have four locations. So we've got Perth, Mandra, Margaret River and Gold Coast as well. So we're cool. Wow, Gold Coast is happening across the country. Yeah, which is nice. So with Cold Nips, what are the benefits? Yo, great question. It's cool because it can be as like simple as you want or you know, there's a deeper level to it, you know? And I think like, one thing that we portray on social media or as like the entity of personalities, identity of fun, enjoy, you know? And one thing Ryan said that, which was one of the founders that like stuck with me, which is like does mental health doesn't always have to be boring, you know? And there's like cool ways to bring that out. I guess like we've got a couple of values that we've like distilled from Cold Nips in itself. So we've got the identity of discomfort, which is what we're big about. We've got being in nature. We've got connection. We've got meaning. And then the last one is joy. And so we kind of use these five values as lenses to look at Cold Nips, but also lenses in which we can use to look at the life in itself and its existence, you know? And I think like the narrative for Cold Nips was is to better our personal lives because that's what we really wanted. And then from that, sharing that with other people as well. Yeah, absolutely. And how is the Cold Nips kind of crossed over with your kind of life advocacy and your understanding of the medical side? Yeah, cool. I think like one for starters, it being an epic platform, like we never knew what it would transcend to. And it's funny, like there's been multiple times where we were just like, we should just stop and can this, like this the last season ever, you know? Which is like, yeah, which is quite crazy. But somehow we just found ourselves, like I like, at a time, often back in it at all. I think like Cold Nips has given me so much opportunity and I've like, I said in one of my reels, just like I said, thank you, Cold Nips for changing my life in a way I never knew was possible. And I truly met that. And I met that in terms of like meeting people that I never thought I'd meet and developing friends like epic friendships and people that actually like challenge me that also act as like that Socratic mirror, you know, that integrate my existence, you know? It's like, interrogate my existence is one thing for me to like question myself, but we get fatigued, you know? But other people like, say for yourself that ask you those questions can be so potent. Even the smallest decisions are the big ones that define our life. And I've had opportunity that's come from Cold Nips as well. I think that big crossover like, say for example, with me with medicine and health is man like, like I think if something is a movement, there's clearly a reason why people are drawn back to it, right? And we've distilled a couple of things from there, you know, like the feeling that you get from it and to hear stories of how people have had their life changed just by something so simple as being the ocean is gone. Share one is like, come on, success story. Okay, let's see actually last year or I guess last year in a new year now, we produced a little book and by a legendary photographer, his name is Adam Kenner. It's called the season that was and it's cool because yeah, I know Adam very well. Yeah, great man, epic photographer, but he was just capturing all these photos for Cold Nips and he was just like, just doing his thing. He's magic at his craft. And he's like, bro, he was like, I want to create this book, you know, just document this season, right? I think Adam's a bit of a visionary. So it was more than just a photo book. He had like store. So we did an Instagram call out a while back to be like, how has Cold Nips influenced your life? And we had hundreds of people say all kinds of mini bits. Adam like went out and interviewed different people and community to share their stories and the stories are anonymized. I read some of the, I literally, every time I read this book, I literally come to tears and you hear about people who talk about like they've had like social anxiety or maybe like this one person I'd call out was, she has a medical condition in which she lives with where she actually has like paralysis on the left side of her body, which means that that's beyond her volition. So that at any point in time, her left side of body would just kind of turn off. And she still be conscious or she's like aware, but she'll just fall off to her left, you know? And that meant that she wasn't able, she actually had to leave her job because she was unable to work. She was deemed as unsafe. She couldn't like cook or do anything like that because that's dangerous knives, stoves, all that jazz. And to a point where she was like, I'm even scared to cross the road to go to my cafe to get a coffee. Cause you know, if I cross the road like that could be dangerous or what else could happen in my life. And so in this little excerpt that she wrote about was how like she actually went with her, her cousin, like, oh, like let's go to this thing called Nips. And she was like and conquering the fear of like being in cold water in a Wednesday morning. Like the identity of swimming is so scary. And she used to come with her floatie at one point in time, but being able to like be like with this massive group of people or being the ocean and whatnot gave her so much confidence and empowered her that one, like she has like a tribe of people in her life that she never had before. But two, also she feels the ability to do something. It's cool because I've seen her progression from that fierce state to her, like being able to drive her car again and actually working to develop her physical health and her mental health in such a holistic capacity. And you hear that shit and you're just like, wow, like it never in our wildest minds that we think that people's lives would be changed like that. And that's like one of the many stories. I remember once like we were at a cafe where after like we ran a little festival in Scarborough once and this like couple tapped us on the shoulder and was like, hey, like, thank you for cold nips. Like I met my partner and we've been dating for like two years. And you're like, what the hell? Like, you know. Love gurus. Yeah, legit, the first cold knit wedding. Like I think like situations bring about opportunities. And I think that's one thing that's so powerful about this community and this experience as well. And like I said before on the surface, it's like, oh, let's just go to beach some homies on a Wednesday morning. And on a deeper level, there might be elements of like midweek, hype up, no alcohol, no drugs, like disconnected from technology to be in nature, maybe the discomfort of interacting with a lot of people. But it can be such a catalyst for you to level up your life and, you know, do something different. Yeah. And I usually, I just challenge people and sometimes it's like, oh, it's early and whatnot, which is like, would you have to lose? And yeah, just try it once. If you hate it, you never have to do it again, but you don't lose by trying. No, you don't, you don't lose by trying. In fact, you only, sorry to interject, but you only gain whether you learn that, like, oh, I love this or it reaffirms something that isn't for me and why I like what I like. You know, the more you experience it, the better your understanding is. And then the people that do stay, they're all in that same kind of realm that you can get along with, create friends, friendships with, get a relationship, you know? Have a ceremony and then at the end of the ceremony, they walk down the sand isle and then run into the ocean. Everybody jumps in in the veil and that'd be epic. One day somebody get married, have a cold next wedding, we'll love to be there. Yeah, absolutely. So as we're wrapping up, I wanna fire out some quick questions. Yeah, let's go. What are the key factors to contribute to a healthy lifestyle, quality of life and overall wellbeing? Yeah, great question. Hey, I think probably introspection is probably a big one for me and I think it covers all the facets and maybe like talking about, if you could do one thing, like one takeaway from this is ask why, from the big decisions, like maybe like why do I wanna study this or that but even the little things like, maybe why do I have this for breakfast or why do I get up this way, you know? Because then you gain a better understanding of whether it's for you or not for you or also how you can better stuff. If you have a sense of curiosity for life, you'd be surprised at how much better things can be. And I think that can span across so many different things as well. Yeah, now ask why. That's a great, great, great one. Single, yeah. What about another key factor in terms of your situation? Yes, you can ask why about that as well. But how do you know if you're in the right situation or not? I think like, yeah, that's definitely really fascinating and in a wild way, like to extract a little bit from this identity of stoicism, which is where you don't have the ability to control what happens to you but you have the ability to influence or control what you actually do, you know? And I think like life is multifaceted. Sometimes good shit happens, other times shitty things happen, right? The only thing we can change is what we do. And so like I've just finished reading David Goggin's second book and I'm a big fan of his stuff, but he like comes from a really hectic upbringing and some shitty shit happened in his past, but he's like, man, like I can choose to cast the blame externally or I can take responsibility of what I have in my hands now. And I know it can be challenging and certain situations suck, but I think there's a time and place to grieve and I think that's fucking important. I think you should go through the pain and strife and not numb because I think the breath of the human experience is to enjoy the highs and the low. Like recently I had something that caused me to be really unhappy and I just cried and I was like, even though I was so sad in that, I felt privileged to feel that emotion, you know? And I had this little like thought coming to my mind once, which is like, it's almost like if emotions were like a voltmeter, you know, if you only surround yourself with positive and not the negative, you lose your calibration and that becomes your new norm. You know, it's either I want things to be good or fucking great. And if I get good shit to me, that's not good enough. But if I still had negativity or harsh in my life, it helps to ground me and show the reality of life, you know? So I think that's pretty potent too. I think I went on a tangent there and I totally got the question. No, stay positive, stay positive. That's a summary. That's good. Future plans. Future plans for me? Yeah. Oh man. I guess like in my personal trajectory in life is I'm keen to get back to med school because I took a little bit of time off but to really send that. And I know that's something I want to complete. And I think like even some of the things that you talked about, and I think you, I appreciate the questions you asked me because it made me interrogate what I want for my future and also how I can, I guess, better the world because that's something I want to do is I want to really send and complete this medicine degree and do it well. But also for me is to define my identity in my life. And I think like one thing that I'm grateful for cold nips as well is this is Japanese concept. It's icky guy, if you've ever heard of it before. Yeah, it's super epic, right? It's about relating like what you're good for, what you can make a difference, what you enjoy and also what you can get paid for as well. And I think it's a really powerful question to ask even as a thought exercise to like what's my purpose on this earth or my existence or how do I live a meaningful life, right? Yeah. But I think like in that as well, and when we had like for example with cold nips, like I think that the commonality between the three of us boys that lead it is that we want to make a difference in the world. And I think being able to be paid to do so is like truly incredible. Yeah, it's already happening. You get sponsors, you get attention from XYZ people and you're away, you're often racing, but it comes time. And that test of time is actually the test of is it something that you're actually in it for the right reasons? Yeah, 100%. Or are you gonna get frustrated because the money's not coming in? Ah. You're just in it for the money. Yeah. Truly in it for the money. That's it, man. If you love what you do and you're good at it, that's all there is. Man. Money's the byproduct. Legit. And I couldn't agree with you more. It's funny, the amount of people who have asked us like, it's like, how'd you guys fund cold nips? And it's like the first four years we didn't have anything. You know, it's just been a passion and love other than the single fundraiser that goes 100% back into like, because people don't know, like we have to pay for permits for the councils, we've got public liability, there's like safety, equipment and stuff that we need for the dips. And people are like, you know, there's nothing wrong with like knowing that it's a free stuff and but there's also realities, you know, like we live in this world. I totally agree with you, man. And not to throw shade and stuff, but I've seen I guess other groups replicate different stuff and whether it's like a swim dip movement or other stuff as well, but you see people's like intentionality with that. And whether it's like, oh, that's cool. I'm gonna replicate or do that shit. Or whether it's like, fuck, this is epic and this is what I want to do. You know, I think that like brings. That reminds me of when I was doing my SEVS tours, 2018, 2019. Me and a guy named Nicky Buchanan, great dude. Yeah, epic. I started out just going out to the city, just doing photos, photography. And on Instagram, I did a call out, just going, anybody following me that's interested in hanging out, taking photos, I'm here. And then I get DMs. Two weeks later, I had someone wanted to come with me every night and every night I made a special for them. And I had this little kind of thing that I've just made up like a template. I'd do a quick interview with them. This is well before TikTok as well. And we would take photos together. What did you like about it? And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, I can monetize this. Yeah, not really phased, just fun. And then my wife was like, yeah, every night, every night, could you be doing that less every night? You know, like wouldn't mind some me time. I was like, yeah, fair enough. They're cool, fresh out. Yeah. I was like, all right, what if I do a group thing? Yeah. Five people, 10 people, 20 people. Yeah, cool. And then at the peak of it, I had 120 people rock up. We were walking around the city, 120 of us. Mob, yeah. Yeah. And the same thing with logistics and public liability and stuff, someone told me, I didn't even realize it until someone messaged me. It's like, just a heads up. Someone fucking hurts themselves. You're in shit. And I'm like, fuck. That means I have to like legitimately organize this and have people sign stuff and things like that. Yeah, I know. And people are still asking me today, are you ever gonna do it again? I'm like, I don't know. But, and this is another question I forgot to ask, advice for people who want to make an event or something they have to think about? Yeah, cool. It's funny, when you say that super quick tangent, but it reminds me of the first season of Colnips, we call it the honeymoon season, because it's kind of like, we just were running gates, we did whatever, we didn't know the rules, and it's magical. Yeah. I did something like that. Yeah, you know, right? And you'd relate with that. Anyone who wants to start anything, I think you totally experienced that too. I think it's like, if anyone who like wants to do an event or a communion or whatnot, man, I think the big things is, probably like to think about what you want, maybe have a little bit of foresight of what the future might look like, but also don't let that analysis, or paralysis by analysis hit you, you know? I think so often in life, people don't do stuff just because they're like, what about this, X, Y, Z, and don't get me wrong, man. I feel like I've got this identity of like, things being like perfect or neat or well, and I've not done so much in my life, but something I'm actively working on is just to do. You know, and sometimes like, things will just happen and fall in its place. Yeah. And I quote that I love, but also like truly hate because it scares me a little bit, which is like, don't let someone less qualified than you live your dream. I love that one. Yeah, you know, the distinction between that is just action. And I think like, I think, I think most people, and I think it's true for, I'd go blanket statement and say society in general, I think there's a lot of kindness that exists in humans, and people are more often willing to help as well. And I think that's quite true in Perth, man. There's an epic stream of community where that one are so talented, but also are so humble and eager to learn and also better other people's lives as well. It's a sense of belonging too. Cause if someone goes, oh my God, I can help them right now with that. Cause I know exactly how to solve that problem. They'll feel good about themselves. That's it, man. And they get that fulfillment. Everybody wins. Legit, you know? You better the collective reason, you know? So don't feel like you can't ask for help. I think you'd be surprised at how willing people are. And I came across this epic quote, which is like the only true way to time travel is through mentorship. And so the narrative behind that is the pitfalls and learnings that we had. I can just tell someone in like, in fucking like three sentences instead of going through like two years of struggling, like all you act, if you want to do this, you need public liability, you need XYZ, and you're like, all right, cool, you know? And the best way to pay that person back is to pay it forward. You know? It's the only way to do it. Yeah, pay it forward. And yeah, with my self's tours thing, I was like, yeah, this is how you do it. This is the spots. This is how you pose. This is how you take photos. And yeah, that's, no, I love that. It reminds me of a poem by Rupert Kipling. If, have you heard of that one? No, sir. I don't remember it off-blog because it's very long. No, you're good, no pleasure at all. And I read it all the time too, but it's just so hard to memorize. But it pretty much says if does not exist. Right now exists. If this happens, oh, what if this happens? You don't know until you actually do it. If it happens, fucking, it happens. If it happens, then what? What's the worst case scenario? Or what will you do once it does happen? And when I ask those two questions to people, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd adjust. Oh, it's not that bad actually. We'll then go for it. Do you want to make something happen or do you want to make excuses? And those excuses aren't really tangible because they haven't happened yet. Because they're like, oh, what if? No, what if? Well, if does not exist. It doesn't, man. If does not exist. Mum ingrained that into me. She's like, if does not exist. That's so good. I think that's epic. You've seen like some of the successes that you've had in your life because of it. Yeah, absolutely. Just go for it and then. Take it from there, man. If it happens, then that's when you foresee the future or ask a mentor. Go. Oh, I've got this thing I want to do. If this happens, what would you do in that scenario? And they're like, oh, this, this, and this. Great, cool. Now we're ready to go. But people don't even get to that step. They just go, oh, what if it happens? Go for it and then see for yourself. If you're scared, ask a mentor. Yeah, that's it. That's it. So how can listeners get involved with Code Nips? Yo, great question. Best board of call would be on Instagram. So that is Cole underscore nips. We dip every Wednesday. So we, across the main season, we do dips at 545. And we do pre-dip movement. So that will be like yoga, Pilates, breath work, all completely free. Our Wednesdays will always be free. We're looking to add some paid offerings as well. But stay tuned for that. And I would say get curious. And lean into discomfort, man. You'd be surprised what lies on the other side of that. So if you feel like, oh, man, I'm a little bit scared or I feel wearier, it's not for me, maybe you should fucking do it. Because that's where the growth happens. Outside, your comfort zone. Look at that into the camera, too. People need to know, man. I'm going to talk to you straight up, and I'm ready. There's a commercial right there. So, and you also got ice baths, I've seen. You had ice baths? Ice baths, yes. That's correct, yes. So that's something that we're looking to do a bit more to do an ice baths and breath work, which like people might say like, oh, the ocean's cold. And it is, but also the weather, the temperature doesn't actually change that much across the seasons, summer and winter, which is epic. But ice baths are a really cool way, I guess to like increase the discomfort, but there's epic health benefits that exist with that too. And also the function of breath. And that can be a whole topic for another time. But if you look at it this way, long story short, we breathe out of necessity and not out of intentionality. Like we come out of the womb and all we do is breathe. And our ability to breathe is quite autonomic, but it's like we have a respiratory center in our brain, but that relationship is bi-directional. When I'm stressed, short, sharp, shallow, you know? But I also have the ability to slow down my breathing and I'll change what happens in my mind as well. You know, and there's so many benefits in that in terms of like your IQ, your perception, it's actually incredible. Breath has been one of the biggest changes in my life. Look at it this way, man. You can't live without it. So you might as well learn. And then more things that you can learn to master, like we talked about nutrition before, because look at it this way, like you have to eat, you know, if you gain a better understanding, even if it's a small amount, a little bit of education, when intentional and purposeful, can go a long way for the quality of life. That Wim Hof method. Yo, that's it, man. We'll be in. Let it go. Yo, I love the Wim Hof so good. Yeah. Yeah, I read the book. I read the book. Yeah, good book. Thank you for coming in. Man, thanks for having me. It's truly such a privilege to just chat. I really, really enjoy this. It's been beneficial. I hope the viewers gain something. And I know I've definitely gained something too, man, in terms of things I want for my future in my life. So I'm very grateful. Absolutely. We'll definitely catch up again. And this is, you heard it here. Colt underscore nips. Link in bio, link in description. Oh, that's shit. Best place to go. And you're gonna get in touch with me directly. I'm never done with warmest my anger. It's the one. We'll always be there as well. On the Spotify version, you can ask a question or reflect on the episode. You can actually do that now. Obviously read it. Leave a five star review if you deserve it. And there's a YouTube version. So if you wanna hear us talk with some funky camera changes, even though now we're probably not changing cameras because we've talked too long and the camera's not, there's only one camera probably going. So that's the main one, how I am. You know, it's, we're getting there. And it's, we've evolved. So thank you for being on this journey. We've come a long way and yeah, for the viewers at home, please make sure that you interact in some way so I can get some sort of validation that people are listening. So yes, as always, good night.