 These people who have handled you in this way, they've, man, and hearing, you know, hearing everyone who's spoken so far, they've missed the plot big time. The whole thing is rather ironic. The whole thing, all of this precipitated, it began to precipitate. You started seeing the little dribble whenever you were dealing with Marcus Rogers. And the purpose, you know, driving force behind that was his abuse and dishonoring of the Amago Day, particularly, you know, and women, particularly. The same thing has happened with the whole John MacArthur Grace Community Church during the Eileen Gray. It's the same thing that's happening. It's precipitated because you have seen one of God's image bearers dishonored. And it troubles you to the point where you have to, you know, you got to do something about it. You got to address it. You got to call it out. The people that are, you know, that are doing this, the way that they're doing it, and I, you know, I've said the same thing, Corey, pick up the phone, call somebody. Just call somebody. I've said that so many times, man, be rich. If they just pick up a phone and just call somebody, that could, that could did a lot of this that's happening, right? Bringing it to the level of sin and charging you with sin. I mean, you're an accuser at that point if you're doing it. And that's problematic. And not only is it not, they're not recognizing what precipitated this, what, you know, your motivation, your conscience. They're also ignoring the consideration of the Imago day in you, the way the way it's been handled. It's really not, I can't see how any of them really thinks sincerely in their heart of hearts, it's in your best interest. And that that's problematic for me. I think there's a much better way, you know, to address even this, if you have a difference of approach or a difference of preference, there's a much better way to handle it. And again, I keep going back to this, just pick up the phone. If you got his phone number, pick up the phone and call and talk to him. That's all. That's all. But instead, there's a lot of this, you know, ridicule, you know, I told you, I'm not going to get into my dime store cycle analysis. But basically, immaturity, immaturity, and not knowing how to deal with people, not knowing how not not understanding what really just not living in wisdom and understanding how best you could possibly help someone. Because what they're doing right now is not helpful, it's hurting. And and they're not recognizing that, you know, the mob has gotten, you know, gotten up in a frenzy. All of that said, I have told you before, handle this with a profuse amount of grace. Don't give him any more ammunition. And, you know, if you're going to do this, you know, respond to this video, do it again with a profuse season with a profuse amount of grace. And and I think that that would go a long way. And it would definitely showed at least to them, you know, okay, he could be reasonable. I think everybody here already knows that. But for whatever reason, there's a lack of recognition of that on the mob's part. And and they're characterizing you that way. And so I think handling it with a tremendous amount of grace, like you said, looking at it, if you see where you might be wrong in the area, yeah, own up to it, you know. Like I said, I, you know, I don't I don't see, I see this personally as a matter of preference. And I say that I say that as someone who would not say half the things you say. Mm. You understand that? Yes. So, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't approach it, you know, as aggressively as you approach it, you know that. Yes. But I still see it as a matter of preference and perhaps a better way of reaching people. And and perhaps, you know, avoiding stuff like this. Now, one of the things that that, you know, that I think about as well in this. Roma's 828. All things work together for good to them that love God. And this very thing right now, I can see it working together for your good. Now, you know, we talked about jokes, friends. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they serve the purpose, but in the end, they were wrong in their attitude joke. And I see something similar happening right now. So I say, soak it up and, you know, use it as an opportunity to level up and in your in your approach and your shrewdness in ministry. And I think you're gonna come out, you know, better on the. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the BCV channel. I am your host, Pastor Saco Woods. Please do the following. Please like, subscribe, share, hit the notification bell at the bottom of this video. That way, whenever I go live and post any content, you'd be one of the first to view it. Also, if you'd like to support this ministry financially, first and foremost, thank you, those of you who have been so gracious and consistent and faithful in supporting this ministry with your gifts and tangible expressions of love, we do appreciate it. But if you'd like to support this ministry, you can click the donation links below at the bottom of the video. That way you can choose the options that we have available. We have been encouraging many of you, those of you who have been supporting this ministry through Super Chat, just wanted to encourage you to let you know that those resources, when you send them through Super Chat, we won't receive those resources until the following month. Versus if you use Venmo, Cash App or Zail, we receive those funds immediately upon receipt. So just wanted to encourage those of you if you would like to continue to support the ministry, you can do that through those options below. Also, if you'd like to support the ministry through becoming a body lifer, a body lifer are those who would like to make love, life and marriage with the woods, my wife and I's channel or the BCV channel, part of your regular giving and support for ministries outside of your local fellowship. You can do that. There's no obligation. You can do that by just clicking the donation links below at the bottom of the video. Or if you'd like to support the ministry through purchasing merchandise, we have the BCV store. That is available. You can go to the link below at the bottom of the video in the description below and you can choose whatever items that are available, hats, hoodies, T-shirts, things like that. We have those available for you as well. Moderators, thank you so much for holding it down in the chat. Facebook family, thank you. Brother Lee, sister Darnisha, brother Bob, welcome to the video, to the live stream. We do thank you. Please hit the like button over there, share the video if you don't mind. Over on Facebook, letting people know that we are here, that we are in the house. In effect, we are live right now, not Memorex. We are up in here. All right. Also, just want to acknowledge our YouTube family just real briefly, real quick. Let's see. Man, there'd be so many of y'all. Brother Isaac, good to see you. DWB, good to see you as well. Thank you for the props. Hippolyta, good to see you, my sister. Brother Tommy, lady Saturn. Leonzo, what's going on? What's happening? What's happening? Sister Nick, what's going on, sis? What's going on? Good to see you. All right. Ms. Bobby, how are you doing, ma'am? Good to see you as well. What's going on, Jackson? What's happening, man? Ms. Hilary, good to see you as well. Brother David, what's up, man? What up, though? Pocahontas, good to see you as well. Sister Lynn, Michael Sterling, good to see you. Hello, hello. Jesus love you, brother David. What's going on, brother? What's happening? Be great. What's up, young man? David Rector, good to see you as well. Sister Christina, what's going on, sis? What's happening? All right. I think we have everybody present and accounted for. Those who are coming in later on, welcome. I think I have my brother, brother Proverbs. Good to see you, my brother. Let's see who else. John DeSavo. Oh, but praise God, man. Thank you. Thank you. That's what it's about. That is what it's about. I definitely appreciate it. And be praying for M. Biz. He did email me last night. I'm waiting for him to send me his information so we can stay in touch and make sure he has the resources that he needs to grow. And hopefully he'll come into the chat tonight and we will be able to keep him encouraged as well. Let's see. Are you going to one of these videos with everyone that was in the video? Yes. Yes. I'm going to interview. Yes. Yes. I'm going to be interviewing someone that was in one of the videos. The one that you just heard. He's in a green room waiting to be brought on. I just wanted to go through the names here. Brother Francis, good to see you as well. Danny Jones. Good to see you, my brother. Hello. I think everybody is here. Okay. So anyway, anybody else that comes in, straggles in, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. That brother that you saw at the beginning of the of the live, that is brother Dre Perkins. He is a pastor. He is in North Carolina, I believe. I will let him introduce himself momentarily. Just wanted to give you a little bit of background regarding this, this man and his, his ministry and he and I, my friendship with him. He is really a blessing to me and in my family. He has been one of the individuals, one of the brothers that I go to for counsel. Yes. Yes. Yes. I go to people for counsel. Yeah. I know. I know. Get about the floor. Get about the floor. I know. I know. Unbelievable, right? Some of y'all think I don't have anybody that I can go to that I can talk to without that. You know, I let lean in my life and even chin check me. You're just, just, just, he's just one of the few. He's just one of a few. But nonetheless, I have this brother waiting to be brought on, but just wanted to publicly give this man his flowers and thank him for the friendship that he and I have been knowing this brother. Oh my gosh, let me see. I think, I think 10. He'll tell me when he, when he comes when he comes up. I think maybe 10, maybe 10 years. I know it had to be at least 10 because I believe we clicked up during the war video and that's where a lot of people were able to connect with me through the war video. But anyway, we had developed a friendship, camaraderie, fellowship, and just began to, to connect and, and his, his philosophy, his, his way of ministry is, I believe it needs to be heard by those of you who desire to know the truth. This is an unscripted conversation. He does not know any of the questions that I'm going to ask him. What he will know is that it's going to be live and in person and you yourself will be also privy to the conversation and to his answers as well. And so I decided to do this because I believe that those of us in the body of Christ, we need to hear other perspectives. We need to hear not just me saying how I feel and how things affect me, but other brothers and sisters in Christ as well to hear their side and hear their perspective and hear their thoughts and, and even wisdom that they may be able to share with all of us that watch and that support channels like this. So without any further ado, introduce to some familiar eyes with others real quick, one more, one more thing, one more thing, one more thing. Let me go ahead and put out a verse or two. I need to do this real quick because this is going to set the tone and, and Brother Dray already knows it because I did tell him that I want us to talk about these verses as well. But I want to cover, I want to lay out the foundation and cover a couple verses so that way you all will all, we will all be on the same page on what we are talking about. Now you saw the thumbnail, the thumbnail that says, let us reason together. So in Isaiah chapter one verse 18, the Bible says, come now, let us reason together, say the Lord. Come now, let us reason together. This is, this is God imploring, exhorting sinners. Those that he created says, let us reason together, say after the Lord. Now if God is able to do that, how much more for us? How much more should we, as believers, as Christians, followers of Christ, be able and be willing to reason together with one another? It's going to take the work of the Spirit of God, of course, we know that. James chapter three verse 13 through 17, the Bible says, who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior, his deeds and the gentleness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but it's earthly, natural, demonic. Verse 15 verse 16, excuse me, for where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is this order in every evil thing. But verse 17 says, but the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits unwavering without hypocrisy. Well, let's just end it with the last verse here in verse 18. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. In Romans chapter 12 verse 18, Paul says, if possible, if possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men, with all men. It's a command, we're to be at peace, we're to strive to be peaceful. All of us, it's what we're called, we're called to be this way. Have the attitude and posture of being a peacemaker. Now, with that being said, we know that there are things going on in our, in our, in our, in the body of Christ amongst the brethren, there's division. The thing that we need to strive to be are people of balance, people of integrity, people of fairness and unbiased. In fact, we know this verse, Proverbs chapter 11 verse one, cited again for the record, Proverbs 11, one of false balances and abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight. When we have issues of conflict and issues of disagreement, we should always not look to the person, but look to the principles or the things that the Word of God tells us to hold to. It doesn't matter who we are, doesn't matter what a person says or does, what does the Word of God say? And that should be the standard by which we, by which we follow. Now, I say that because I know for many of us, there are a lot of, a lot of things that are being, being thrown around and being said and things of that nature. The encouraging thing for me is, is that God has given us everything we need for life in God. And the question is, are we doing what God, God's Word has told us to do? And so the purpose of this, this broadcast, the purpose of this channel is to examine everything through the lens of Scripture. Anything that we have issues with, I believe the Word of God addresses it, either by preset principle or a practice, pattern of practice. And so this is no exception, but I'm blessed to have my brother, Dre Perkins here. So again, without any further ado, introduce you all by the Dre Perkins. What's going on? My brother was happening. What's happening? What's happening? What's up, brother? Good to see you, man. Good to see you. Good to see you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, look, man, I know I had told you a few days ago, we were doing some, you know, conversing and I told you that I wanted to bring you on because you definitely have a way of communicating the truth, I believe, better than I can at times. And so what makes the Body of Christ, what makes the Body of Christ unique? There's no one way of delivering the truth. There's no one way of seeing, you know, God's Word unfold in this application and it requires wisdom. And so I definitely appreciate, you know, the wisdom that God has given to you. You were one of the brothers as we, as people saw in the, in the video at the beginning, one of the brothers that I called and had to have on the panel to just get your advice and I left myself open. I mean, left myself open, whatever was said, I strived to receive it. Anything that I didn't agree with, we had conversations about that. And I'll let you kind of like unpack that a little bit, you know, and your contribution to it and the things that you saw and things of that nature. But tell the people, man, a little bit about yourself, you know, I did let them know that you're a pastor, but tell them about yourself, your ministry, you know, things of that nature for those who may not know you. Yeah. Born and raised in North Carolina. Pastor Helpa. I'm a co-elder, leading teaching elder at a church here in Greensboro. It's a very small fellowship and I love the people of my fellowship. It's so very one of the things I appreciate about it is the, the togetherness and the, the intimacy that we have with one another in the body. So yeah, that's who I am. I'm a father and a husband, a beautiful wife, LaTanya, I think she's probably in the other room watching right now. She asked me, she says, will you be intimidated if you know I'm watching? I said, as long as I don't know. But, but yeah, that's who I am. I think I've known you. It might be about 10 years that are, believe it or not, are running. It wasn't over war. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So here's the irony of it. It was over. It was over some criticism you had of John McCarthy. Oh, wow. Yeah, go ahead and sip your tea, bro. Yeah, go ahead and take a sip. Yeah, yeah, we already get it started, boy. Yeah, I forgot about that. So, so refresh the audience's refresh my memory and enlighten the audience, man, on what took place because I forgot all about that, bro. So you listen. So for those who are watching this, then, Dre, you are a living testimony, living witness that I have been doing this for at least 10 years regarding John McGarney. It's been a while. It's been a while. Okay. And so, and I can't remember exactly what it was. I have an idea, but I don't want to, because I'm not, you know, that certain about what, you know, what the criticism was. But, you know, it was pretty strong. So I was PMing you. And guess what happened? We exchanged phone numbers. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And ever since then, you've been in my contacts and we've had conversations, you know. And the one thing that I'm kind of, you know, kind of, you know, wow, I said that, you know, in that moment, you know, you played that video back. And it's true. You left yourself, you gave us the opportunity to minister to you in that way, because you did open yourself up and made yourself vulnerable. You sat back, you know, and listened, you know, to what we had to say. But, but yeah, it was it was over, you know, some, some criticism you had. And look at us now. I have, you know, come to a place of understanding. And it really began with with my first mentor, my first spiritual mentor, the first person to ever disciple me, um, evangelist Joshua Caleb Hoskins. And he was rough. You know, there were times when, when I would go to the car after sitting down with him under his teaching. And, and he was, he was a shepherd, you know, he was a pastor to me. So whenever there were matters of morality or, you know, matters of conduct or whatever, according to scripture, he would he would hold me accountable to it. And there were times where I'd go to my car and cry. You know, that's how, that's how rough it was. But what I learned to appreciate was the, don't worry as much about the way that it's coming across as much as you worry about the content of what's being said. And, and, and I've taken that with me, you know, it's taken a while for it to set in as much as it has now. But it's set in pretty good right now. I try to be reasonable. I try to listen to reason now. And I also try to encourage others to do the same. And, and so you were like one, one help in that a reminder to me, you know, even of that, what I met you is like, okay, yeah, this is this is kind of reminding me of some lessons that I've learned that maybe I've, you know, let go and lost a little bit. I'll say this, and then I'll shut up and let you ask your next question. I had a thought earlier today. We cannot let our passions outrun our intellect. And, and it reminds me of something that I heard Abraham Hamilton, the third say, good brother. And I don't know if it's original with him or not, but he's the only person I heard say it. He basically said that emotions make for terrible generals, but they make for awesome foot soldiers. And there's something to that. When God made us in his image, he made us with a rational mind. He made us to be to be thinkers. And unfortunately, when we fail to do that, and we throw that part aside and we can part mentalize the intellect from the emotions, we make a mess of things. And, and we see, we see that happening in the body over and over again. And it has a broader impact on the culture, you know, when the culture won't listen to reason, they just look at the church and say, well, you won't either. Right. You know, right. So, so we see, we see it makes it makes a mess. We, and I won't go into the whole, you know, the anti intellectual age and all that stuff, but right now that yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I guess, so, so let's just talk about this. I mean, people know about the, the infamous video that Michael Williams had had made, which actually precipitated us having the panel discussion. And I think I had told you earlier this morning that it made a year. It's been a year since, since that video had had dropped. It was on April the 7th. And actually I was doing my own live stream. I get a text message from Michael Williams saying, Hey, did you see the video? And I'm like, what video? And he said, this video, and then he sends me the link on my phone. I look at the link, I hit it. And it says echoes and sound bites of a stern rebuke to Seiko Woods. I mean, that was the, that, no other conversation had occurred prior to him sending me that message over the phone. And, and then I see the, the video. Now, again, if it was something that I did that was public sin, I mean, I'm talking about, like you said, if it's an issue of preference, that's not a sin. That's just your preference. It's your thing. You believe this. I believe that we go our own way, whatever. But there was no principle. There was no, there was no principle. There was no precept. There was no command that I, that I, that I broke. There was nothing that I did as a pattern of life or habit or habitual sin that people brought to my attention. I just basically just, just shoot them off. None of that. So, so it threw me off guard. It threw me off guard. And, and I just basically told the guy, I said, man, I said, you know, you, you, you really, I see, and I said, no, I don't have no plans on watching it. I said, and I didn't. I had no, I had no plan on watching it. Several people told me I needed to watch it. I kept myself from watching it because I did not want to have the response. I knew, I knew how I would be. And so I basically waited for, for weeks. And then I believe the following week, that's when I had reached out to you guys, you brothers, and we had that meeting on the 14th, I believe. And I think the conversation, man, the last almost three hours, I think it was three hours of some change. It lasted a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, I think three hours, some, some more minutes, almost three and a half hours. But, but before we knew, I mean, it was like, man, it was like mid, I was past midnight or whatever like that. But it was a substantive conversation. It was a, it was very thought provoking. The decision whether or not I was in sin, it was four to two. And which was interesting to me. And I'm, we can have a real conversation, ladies and gentlemen, me and Jere, we, this is how we do when we talk on the phone. We just, we have, we keep it real. Y'all, we just letting y'all peer into what we talking about tonight. Okay. But, but the interesting thing about that whole, that whole discussion, you know, all six of you shared your thoughts, shared your perspectives, you know, shared things that, hey, you know, I wouldn't do it this way, but that's, that's just me. I wouldn't do it that way, but that's just me. But it was Corey and Sean Isaacs that basically rendered, there's the decision saying that I was in sin. My sin, they said was me and my rhetoric. I'm like, okay, that, that, I just, I just was, you know, I heard it, heard it said, but for me, I was like, okay, fine, move on. That was it. Then we had the video that was, that was made by Corey. And, and he and Sean had encouraged me to, to, uh, I guess give an explanation for who I am and why I am. I kind of bristled against it, but I did it. I did it. Only, only to find out that Bible thumping wing nut, he ended up getting the link. Don't ask me how, because remember we had that conversation. How he got the link, nobody else had it except me and brother Corey and, and, and and Sean Isaacs. Nobody else had the link. Nobody else had it. And that's the next thing we know, Bible thumping wing nut is doing the premiere of the video that was supposed to drop hours later in April Chapman is in the, in, in, in Bible thumping wing nuts channel up there, basically mocking and whatever like that. And it was just interesting to me. It was just interesting to me. And, and so later on have a conversation with the brother Sean Isaacs. And he wanted to share his concerns with me. He said, I, he believed I was in sin. I said, okay, brother, what's the sin? Because I said, nigga, that was the sin. I said, brother, that's the sin. And I'm not, and I'm not, I'm not being, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm like, I said, brother, that's, that's the sin. Yeah, I, I, I, you know, I let you, I let some other brothers watch the video. And these brothers said, yeah, you know, that, that, that'll be considered, you know, unwholesome, unwholesome speech. I'm like, really? So me saying, nigga, and I'm saying it in the culture and context that I'm in amongst the people that I'm in, whatever, I'm not making anybody come on my channel, but I said it. And I said it in regards to people supporting and endorsing Joe Biden and whatever, right? So bottom line. That's what brother, you know, we're gonna, and I hate using this term, right? I hate using this term. I hate it. I said, brother, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I hate grow. I hate you. I was like, no, I wasn't, no, we, no, you disagree, you disagree. And I agree that you wrong. That's it. But I said, brother, I said, you know, we just got the greatest aggressive brother. That's not a sin. I said, that's something you wouldn't use or you wouldn't say. I mean, I said, bottom line. I said, you know, culture has its place. I said, I didn't cuss anybody out. I didn't use foul language. I said, because I said the word and I'm saying it in the context and I'm saying it. I said, so basically, so you have the profits calling, calling, you know, the, the daughters of machine help us. I mean, what, what, what is that? You know, and then the interesting thing about all of this, too, though, Drake, I get the book costs us a serrated edge. Right. I get that one from the proverbial life channel, Edward Ramirez. I get that he recommended me to get the book. I'm like, man, thank you. You know, now this is before we fell out. Right. And the reason why I'm sharing this with all of you again, ladies and gentlemen, some of y'all may not know, but some of the same people that were defending me and, and encouraging me to keep doing what I'm doing. They flipped when it came time for me to deal with John MacArthur. When Eileen Gray situation dropped and I pivoted and I, and I was helping and supporting Julie Royce. That's when the whole tide began to turn against me. Now I'm, I'm, I'm setting all of that up because this is where you named here. This is where you now came in, Drake, because I saw how people were basically responding and treating me in the, in the group chat that we were in. I ended up leaving. I left. Right. Right. I just got out of, I left. And, and so next thing I know, I'm getting information, people saying, Hey man, these people talking about doing this, people talking about doing that or whatever. But you had, you had a, I don't even say a relationship or an acquaintance, you know, with these brothers. And you were, to my knowledge, was, was the reasonable one saying, Hey, you know, maybe all of us need to check our hearts, all of us need to guard our hearts and make sure that we're not responding with emotion. And how, how were you received when you were trying to give that advice and give that in that council to those brothers? It was with resistance. And that's, that's to put it somewhat mildly. It was with resistance. If, you know, if I'm to be honest about, you know, the way that I felt at times when I did do that, and I'll explain, you know, the, the, the main reason why I was telling my wife earlier today, I wasn't able to articulate it as well back then, but I can definitely explain now, you know, the reason why I was trying to caution everyone is because we all have a heart. We all have, we all have a conscience. And all of that is the product of us being made in the image of God. So that, that the Amago day, that is a foundational theological doctrine that, that is often forgot in our dealings with one another. And it has very deep and profound and broad implications when we really think about it. So what I was trying to do was trying to not only guard my heart, but when we see the scripture in Proverbs, you know, it says to keep your heart, to guard your heart with all diligence, because from it flows the issues of life. We don't, we don't do that for ourselves. And then just say, oh, everybody else is down their own. That's, that's not what we do. That's not the loving thing to do. And we're not to also compel, you know, Romans 14 comes to mind. If anyone does anything is not in faith, it's sin. So, so we're not to compel someone to do something that is, that goes against their own conscience. You know, of course, that's, that's unless their conscience is not properly informed. If they're, if the information in their conscience is contrary to scripture, then obviously we got to confront that. Exactly. But if it's not clear, if it's not clear, we don't need to try to compel someone to do something that goes against their own conscience. So with that in mind, I'm thinking, okay, we need to guard our hearts. We don't need to start feeling, you know, some type of way, because, because Seiko was operating according to his conscience. So, so who are we to, you know, to, to push him in another direction? And, and unfortunately, a lot of people, a lot of lesser will people will succumb to that. I was just listening to a message by R. C. Scroll called the tyranny of the weaker brother. Some people, some people will succumb to that. They'll succumb to that. And then later on, they end up regretting it because they realized, man, I shouldn't have done that. I was listening to people and not following my own biblically informed conscience. But that's the key. Our conscience has to be informed by the word of God. Amen. And so, so as we interact with one another, we not only, you know, navigate through this world, you know, with the lens of scripture, but we also deal with one another and try to help one another to do the same thing, to do the same thing. And I didn't see that, you know, happening because what I saw was there wasn't really a clear, at least in my estimation, my conviction. Okay. My conscience was convicted. I was convinced that I didn't see an actual sin. I saw a matter of preference. So if another brother has an issue, I'm like, Hey, let's guard our hearts, first of all, and then let's go talk to him. Go talk to him. And that's why I kept saying, you know, in that video when we got together, just pick up the phone and call him. Have a conversation. The key part to that, though, is both people, both parties have to be open to reason. You read that verse from James. Yes. Yes. Both parties have to be open to reason. And if that's not happening, we're going to have problems inevitably. And I think that's a good deal of why we end up having problems in the church. Again, a lot of it has to do with this compartmentalization of the spiritual, let's chop it all up, the spiritual, the intellect, the heart, the soul, and all of this. There's more intertwining in all of that than what we, unfortunately, are willing to wrestle with. And I think that's a part of it. Just being reasonable. And we've talked, you're understanding what I mean by saying we're being reasonable. What's logical? What's rational? What is your reasoning behind that? And if there are some emotions to have following that, so be it. Yeah. There was, at the beginning of our panel discussion, I don't know if you remember, you probably, it's been a year, remember my wife coming on and she shared her heart. Some people may not remember that, but I want to replay that for those who may be new to the channel, because there are some of us who forget that we are married. And what affects us affects our spouses. And this situation affected my wife very significantly and tremendously, so much so that she had to guard her heart, because the betrayal was that deep. I mean, it was, you know, breaking, when we talk about breaking bread right with folk, and we literally do that with people, we actually go to their house and we hang out and we do life together, or we have been knowing a person. So we thought we've been knowing a person, you know what I'm saying? We've opened our families to these people. And then for them to turn. I remember that video that Sharon posted, was it Sharon or you posted, reunited, and it feels so good. I think that was... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, man. I forgot, no, no, I forgot about that, because I remember that. Yeah, we put that out there. And remember, we had never met April, never met her husband Robert until, until 2021, I think it was it, 21, 21, 22, but anyway. But we ended up meeting them and shout out to Quam Adams, because it was at the conference. And ironically, she introduced me to Quam, brother Quam, and said, hey, you need to have, you need to have brother Seiko to come and speak, blah, blah, blah, and we, and he, he and I connected. And so we brought, he brought me and my wife out to Georgia. That was the first time we met Robert and April. Went to, went to Olive Garden, had a great time, man. I mean, just pictures, like we, like, man, just, just finally meeting our brothers and sisters, you know what I'm saying, face to face. I mean, it was just, it was just, you know, it was like an indescribable blessing, you know what I'm saying? To be able to now see the people that you have impacted and see the people that, you know, have been a blessing to you and you being a blessing to them. So you thought, you know what I'm saying? I mean, this, this, you know, everybody don't have access to us. That's the first thing, right? So, when you give people, when you give people access to who you are, that people should see that as a privilege, not as a right, but it should be a privilege and you should be, you should take it as a responsibility to guard and to protect and to, and to appreciate those kinds of relationships. And I, and our things raised so many of us, we have this entitlement mentality, entitlement. Oh, my wife said it was caravacy. Okay, that's my, that's my, my PTSD getting kicking in. It was caravans. Yeah, so it was caravans, my fault. So, but we have this entitlement mentality, bro, to where we think we're obligated to have somebody's name. We're obligated to be in this person's life. It's, you know, I expect for you to let me, to let me, you know, in your life, I expect for you to let me do whatever I, no, no, no, no. If it's, if it's a relationship, then that's a gift. You know what I'm saying? And, and, and matter of fact, I'll go as far as to say this, it is a stewardship. God is going to hold us responsible Drake on how we value and, and the things we take care of in the relationships that God has placed in our life because that is, this is why I brought you on though, bro. You know what I'm saying? Because people need to understand the, the gravity of the situation. I mean, this is not, this is not a game. You, you, you having people's lives being affected even a year or so now later and people are still doing what they're doing. The mob is still mobbing and now we having people now siding with sin and, and minimizing the effects of it. And as though we're the ones that are, you know, making things up or just magnifying the problem. Like, no brother, no sister, we're not magnifying it. We're trying to mitigate this so it doesn't grow and become even much more of an issue. But unfortunately, I don't see that being the case here. Yeah. There's a passage Ephesians chapter four. Yes. Verse one, beginning at verse one. Yes, sir. Therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, I therefore a prisoner of the Lord urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called with all humility and gentleness with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace. Yes. And he goes on. So the unity that we have is not something that we conjure up. It's not something that we generate. It's not something that we create. It is the unity of the spirit. There is one body and one spirit, just as you were called to the one, to the one hope that belongs to you. Let me go ahead and share that thing. Let me go ahead and share that thing. Yeah. Go ahead and read it. Go ahead, go ahead, brother. Go ahead. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and father of all who was over all and through all and in all, grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gifts. And he goes on to talk about the different gifts that he gives to the body. So there's a couple things going on there. One, the unity that we have, it's in Christ. Yes. And okay, God is sovereign over that unity. He's the one that brings us together by way of his sovereign will. And then we are given respino, but or however, nothing. And we have a responsibility to maintain that. Yeah, man. Yeah. We have a responsibility to maintain it, which means these relationships that we have, they're important. Come on, bro. They're important. They have eternal ramifications. Yes. So we have a responsibility and not only are we to maintain the unity, we're to be eager to maintain that union, which means we're not supposed to just throw relationships away because we disagree about this thing or that thing or we're ready to kind of color outside the lines a little bit so that, okay, I can convince myself, yeah, this is sin. So I'm calling you sin and you're not a brother anymore and all this. We need to be really careful about how we do that because we're supposed to be eager to maintain that unity, to maintain it. And it doesn't mean that the maintenance of it doesn't mean that we hold it together. It's kind of like a car. We don't build our own cars. Manufacturers build the cars. We just maintain them. We don't hold them together. We just maintain them. We take care of them. We do the necessary things that we're supposed to do in order to make sure that car keeps running and functioning well. And the same thing applies to our relationships in the body. Not a lot of people are really concerned about that. We turn more in on ourselves and we consider ourselves more than the other brother. It's contrary to what Paul taught in Philippians chapter two. It's contrary to that. That's not the mind of Christ. It's just not. So I'm sorry to jump into a little sermon there, but you appreciate it, bro. We gotta handle it. Handle the text. That's important. The relationship. When we talk about all relationships, they're so important. Again, that's another very profound theological truth in that. You think about it. From eternity past, there was a relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Come on, bro. Come on. Relationship and the decalogue. The Ten Commandments. It's all about relationship. It's about how we relate to God and then how we relate to one another on this horizontal plane. So these relationships and these friendships, they're important and we shouldn't be so eager. We shouldn't be eager to toss them aside. We should be eager to maintain and do everything we can, just like what you read from Romans chapter 12, doing all that we can to be at peace. Everything we can. But the Jameson Fawcett and Brown commentary even recognizes that sometimes it's not possible because a certain party may not be willing to do so. But don't be that party. Come on, bro. Don't be that party that's not willing to maintain that relationship and do all that you can to maintain it. Yeah, yeah. That's what's up. Those who are just joining have past the Dray Perkins here. We're talking about the subject, Let Us Reason Together. As you see, we're getting it in. We're getting it in. Listen, we haven't even taken off. We're still taxing on the runway. Y'all get ready to put the tray tables up in a minute. We'll tell y'all when to go ahead and be clear for takeoff, but we're still taxing right now. So I want to do this. I want to play this to stress the importance and the emphasis that what we as husbands, bro, what we experience, we don't experience in isolation. Our families experience this. And if you have children, they experience it. So it's not when you attack me, you just attack and you just attack and say, especially now, bro, this is social media. You know what I'm saying? So my kids see the stuff that I may not want them to see. Your kids may see this thing that you may not because people now are just putting stuff out there, right? So now you have individuals that think that it is okay to slander. I'm talking about in the body of Christ, in the body of Christ, that it's okay to question the eternal salvation of a brother and now make shirts, mark and avoid them, to question their salvation and then to steal from them, make shirts and merchandise off of what someone else has already intellectually designed and made for themselves. And then on top of that, you have now people being swept away like the devil did in heaven. Take a third and I'm saying to take a third of my followers and like that, but just saying how people's influence can sweep others away into deception and lies and then have you thinking that you're the bad guy or because, like you said, preference. We have uplifted preference so high, man, that it is above the precepts of God's word now. So what's really idolatry now? How I think it can be an idol or what God's word says. Because when you have people now that are making decisions based on feelings instead of facts, brother, we're in a very, very dangerous place. Very dangerous. That's where we are. That's where we are, brother. That's where we are right now. So I want to display this because it's just two clips. My wife, when we had the panel discussion, I wanted to give her the opportunity to share her heart and share her thoughts. And so for those who may not have heard it, you about to hear now my beloved, Sharon Renee Wood. How is he the person at fault because you felt fearful? To me, that's something that you had in your heart. They were fearful. I heard fearful. I heard afraid. I heard intimidated, scared to death because I didn't want him to turn around and make a video of me if I disagree with him. And for that to come from April, especially knowing her on a personal level, was very disheartening to me. And I had to battle with being angry because I don't think, I just don't believe that my husband deserved that. I don't believe we deserve that, especially knowing that those two individuals, Michael and April in particular, my husband has talked to on a personal level. He's not this big bad wolf when they wanted him to give him counsel. So that's conflicting to me. I don't understand how he's this big bad meaning when you are calling him, asking him for advice. And this was recent. This was within the last few months. This was recent stuff. I'm not even talking about years ago. I'm talking about recent stuff. So to me, you had ample time. You had ample opportunity to tell Seiko how you really felt or what you saw. If it was just out of concern, hey, brother, I just noticed this. Or, you know, can you explain this to me or why you said this or why you said it like that? We didn't get any of that. We got blindsided with this video and then blindsided again by the people in the comments that we have counseled on a personal level. Both he and I both have counseled several of those people who were in the comment section, never divulged any of their personal information, don't plan to. But the fact that they trusted us, they trusted him enough to share their personal life information with us. If he's this person that they are now claiming him to be, I don't understand how those two things, how the fear and intimidation thing and them confiding in us, I don't understand how those two things go together. Because to me, they don't. I wouldn't confide in somebody that I'm scared of. I don't talk to somebody I'm scared of. I don't break bread with somebody I'm scared of. And we broke bread with April and her husband laughing and talking at the table. So I'm very hurt. I'm very disheartened. But ultimately, our ultimate goal is I want God to be glorified in all of this. And whatever that looks like, that's what it looks like. And I know that my husband will do what needs to be done. Not what others want him to do, but what needs to be done. Dre, you remember that? Yep. Yep. Still his different, don't it? That's the cost of living in a falling world. And Christians are supposed to be, the body of Christ is supposed to be an oasis from that effect of the fall. And we're actually called to be that. We're called to love one another and talk about a chin check. John, you know, if you hate your brother, you know, oh my goodness. Come on, bro, you know, come on, bro. Do we need it? Do we need it? Do we need to go there? Bro, let's go. Let's go the first time for them. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go to verse 20. And these things are, again, it's important. We need to be mindful and very thoughtful. We've come to the place, man, we're so driven by our emotions, our own preferences. Yeah. And unfortunately, most of us prefer ourselves over everybody else. Right. But yeah. There you go. Verse 20. Got it up there. Verse down for it. If anyone says, I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And you can, I mean, you can go up even further. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What he has to say. What verse you got up there now? Verse 18. Well, verse 18 and verse 9, 4, there's no fear and love. You were talking about verse, you were talking about chapter 3. Are you talking about in chapter 5 going down? Let's see. Let's see in chapter 5. No, we can stay in chapter 4. Okay. I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. Okay, okay. And we see whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. My brother in ministry, Alvin, we dealt with the love of God when we went through Ephesians at our local fellowship. And the way that he defined it, and I really appreciate this. Evangus Hoske is my first spiritual mentor. Defined love as the agape love that we see in the Greek and that refers to the redemptive love of God. It's a love that comes from our Creator that causes us the possessor of that love to do for the object of that love what we know we ought to do whether we feel like it or not. That's right. So it's not a matter of what I want for myself, what I feel like, that kind of love is going to cause us to consider that other person and their well-being. Sometimes their physical well-being, sometimes their spiritual well-being, ultimately their spiritual well-being above our own comforts. So to speak in this world. My brother Alvin in his profound wisdom, it basically even boiled it down even further. Love is what God prefers. Come on, bro. Come on. Yeah. It's simple. It's what God prefers. So what does God prefer for this other individual? So do we think about that? Do we think in those terms when we call ourselves loving someone? Oftentimes when we love, we love according to our own proclivities, according to our own sensibilities and not according to what God prefers. Now what does God prefer? God prefers Andre to be the Andre that he made me to be. He prefers Thaco to be the Seiko he made you to be. He prefers that all of us be who he has made us to be and nothing else. Nothing else. When we don't display that kind of love toward one another, what are we doing? Wow. And this goes back to something that we've talked about before. Are we focused on making disciples of Christ? Are we following the Great Commission and making disciples of him? Or are we out here trying to make disciples of ourselves? Come on, bro. Are we out here trying to make people be like us? And are we out here calling people and sin when they aren't like us? Or they're not doing something according to a particular preference or whatever? So even if, okay, let's say you have a brother and you're convinced, you have a reasonable conviction, which means you've gone to the scriptures and you see, okay, yeah, I'm convinced. Not just I think or maybe, but no, you're convinced. This is sin. I need to confront my brother. What does Galatians have to say about that? Let he, let he who is what spiritual, mature, restore, restore that individual. Not tear him down. In the spirit of gentleness, bro. In the spirit of gentleness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the spirit of gentleness. You got to be, you got to be smooth like the prophet who came to David. Yes, sir. You know, moments like that, you know, let me tell you a story, you know. We're in Brady Bunch on him. Here's a story. Right. Here's a story, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Power of ear. And this little, yeah, this little lamb, you know, yeah, exactly. But, but we don't, unfortunately, a lot of times we're so focused on our, our own, again, preferences, our own likes and dislikes. Yeah, man. And we lose sight of, am I truly doing this to try to benefit my brother or sister for eternity? Right. And, and, and that's the key. Yeah. And again, with that, with it, when that love is lacking. Yeah, bro. All right, babe, bro, listen, let me, let me just read one verse. And then let's, let's get to some more meat on the, on the bone here. We're gonna, we're gonna pick this bone off. Here's a verse I believe a lot of us, we read it, but we don't read it. Roman chapter 15, verse seven. Therefore, in light of, and mind you, the context of, of, of Romans 15 is Romans 14, Dre. This is a preference. This is a preference, bro. You don't think I'm lying? Let's, let's scroll up for a second. We, we, we are right, right. We, we ain't got no way to go do it. Okay. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. Look, look, look, look. And I want to, I want to, can I address something? Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. I just kind of see it floating by in the chat. Trying to see who said it. Pattern son. Facts. He said Oasis, question mark. I understand what that means, but Paul gave us plenty of examples of betrayal, so we wouldn't have any illusions. Facts. Still, still we're called to that. So I agree with you 100%. He gave us, one is because he realizes that there is a war going on within each and every believer. Yes. There's a war going on. Don't walk in. If you want to walk in the spirit, don't fulfill the lust of the flesh. He's constantly having to teach believers to walk in the spirit, not the flesh. So we do understand that. So I agree with you 100%. Yeah. So the context that we were looking at here in Romans, Romans 15 is actually on the heels of, just off the heels rather of Romans 14 dealing with the principles of conscience, right? And I know, remember, Drew, when this issue was hot and heavy, people were mad of us using the P word, preference, when it really was. Yeah. You didn't like my style, but you had to pry my style with Marcus Rodgers. You had to pry my style when I was dealing with this person, dealing with that person. But when it came to MacArthur, then the switch came, right? So, but notice the text says verse 20, just giving some highlighted portions, do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. But let me just go back to verse five real quick. Let's just go to verse five, because this is one of the verses that verse five, and then I'm gonna hit verse 10 up real quick. One person regards one day above another. Another regards every day alike. Verse five to be cause each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. In his own mind. I don't make your mind up. You're to be convinced in your mind and be convinced in my mind over issues of importance or priority to me. Verse six, he who observes the day observes it for the Lord, and he who eats does so for the Lord. For he gives thanks to God, and he who eats not for the Lord, he does not eat and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself and not one dies for himself. For if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. But to this end, Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, verse 10, verse 10, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, as I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God over issues and matters of preference. Verse 13, therefore, let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this, not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. Now we who are strong are to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not just please ourselves. Each of us is to please his neighbor, for his good to his edification, for even Christ did not please himself. But as it is written, the reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me. For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instructions, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope. And then he gives the benediction somewhat here. Now may the God who gives you perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the Lord, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 7, here it is. Therefore, in light of what Paul said, accept one another. And what's the criteria? Just as Christ also accepted us, just as Christ also accepted us. Were we acceptable? No. We were not. No. Even on our best day, Dre. The other side of that coin is what you started out with in Isaiah 1. Come on, bro. Let us reason, bro. Come now. Brother, love the brother, Henry Knox. Several years ago, he posted on Facebook, and it was the paraphrase, if God can say, come now, let us reason together, why are we so arrogant to think that we should not do that to one another? God was calling them account for their sin, and he's holy. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And what did he say? Come, let us reason together. That word reason is not, I don't even know. I don't know what people think that is. Come, convince me, and I'll convince you. It requires a conversation and exchange of thoughts and ideas. We're supposed to be doing that with one another. Yeah, man. We're supposed to be doing that with one another. Yeah, man. And that's the problem. If God can call us to do that, a sinful lowly bags of dirt, as you said yesterday, lumps of clay can call us in our sinfulness to come reason with him, call the people of God, to come reason with him. Why is it that we cannot reason with one another? Come on, bro. That's probably one of my biggest frustrations. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a matter of, are we committed to truth? Are we committed to truth? Truth, as in the ultimate source of truth, which is the word of God, as well as the correspondence definition of truth, that which corresponds with reality. Are we committed to that? Because both of them are authored by God. Yes, sir. Reality itself and the word of God, both of them are authored by God. Are we committed to acknowledging the truth? Period. Yes, sir. And that's where the question lies. And where we fail in these areas is because we lack a certain commitment to the truth, whether it be to the word of God or to what's real. Not willing to acknowledge the reality of a situation, if there's a failing in a relationship. Am I willing to admit that I was wrong in doing this? You know, it's a commitment to truth. Right, right. I was looking at also second Corinthians chapter five. Of course, we know verse 17, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Let me just highlight it here on the screen here so people can see it. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. The old things passed away, behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God. Notice, notice Dray verse 18. Who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against him. I mean, clear sin. Right. Clear sin. Right. No guessing, no preference. No, no, no. Their trespasses, they went beyond the mark. They went beyond. Now they knew not to step on the grass. They stomped on the grass. Sin said, no, don't walk on my grass. And they did it anyway, not counting their trespasses against him. And he has committed to us. Notice the word of reconciliation verse 20. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were making an appeal through us. We beg you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God. He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God. In him. And this is the inditing thing that I say to people all the time. We're called, number one, we're called as ambassadors. And we're called to reconcile sinners to the Savior, but we got saints that want to reconcile with other saints. I don't know how you can make that make sense other than that's just sin. It's just pride. It's just sin. And again, as much as it's possible though, as much as it's possible, be at peace with all men. So there are times when, hey, you may want to reconcile, but here's another thing I want to say this to Jerry before we move on. We can't lower the bar of biblical reconciliation though. Right. Biblical reconciliation consists of confession and repentance. It's reasonable. It's okay. So I say, I say, I say, brother, let's look at the scriptures and see whether what you said or what you've done, or what you, whatever, what you or how I have done, does it violate the clear teachings of the Word of God? And if it does, then now we have, we have a decision to make. Are we going to submit under this? Or is this going to submit under us? Right. And I think it's a very dangerous thing when we want the ladder instead of the form. It is. It is. And that's what I see. That's what I see. If you're telling me I'm in sin, and I'm saying, I know, here's a C, now here's a C word. Now here's a C word, Andre. Here's a C word now. And I'm telling you, come up. Let's, let's come up. I mean, if you're going to, if you're going to publicly, if you're going to publicly charge me and indict me with sin, that are, am I not supposed to face my accusers? Yeah. If it's done publicly, I mean, so, so now we have people that refuse to do that, but claim to be ambassadors for God, claim to say that they are preaching the gospel, giving people the gospel. Well, but you can't, because that's a different gospel. If you're not, if you're not preaching the gospel reconciliation, and then first of all, being reconciled to your brother, matter of fact, does not Jesus himself say Matthew five, if you know your brother got an art with you, he puts reconciliation above worship. Worship, exactly. Yeah, you know, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me display, please, please, let me display the practical application, you know, for all, for this. There it is. Can we talk? There it is. That's it. There it is. It really, it really becomes that simple. There it is. And, and, and, okay, if you disagree, fine. The, the, the burden at some point becomes your ability. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to say this carefully, because ultimately it is the, the Holy Spirit that convicts. Absolutely. Absolutely. A stand. Okay. Right, right, right. He also uses means. Yes, he does. To accomplish that end. Yes, he does. So how well, and this kind of goes back to, I saw a comment earlier, somebody said that the delivery does matter. Okay. It reminds me of, I saw a post earlier, you know, Brandon, what's his name? Brandon Roman on Facebook. Oh yeah, Brandon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Roman, Brandon Romans on Facebook. I think that's his name. Okay. He posted, he posted a question. What's the difference between a bad teacher and a false teacher? Right. Wow. And the answer I gave was the, the, the bad teacher can communicate truth poorly while the, the false teacher can communicate falsehood very well. So yes, delivery is the, the effectiveness of our communication is important. You don't have to be the most eloquent speaker. And it ain't, it ain't even about rhetoric. If people, you know, understand what rhetoric is really about, it has nothing, it has really nothing to do with actual truth or arriving at a truth. It's about persuasion. And, and, and, and if somebody, you know, operates purely in rhetoric, they can twist the truth and discard it all together just to persuade someone, you know, to go a certain way regarding a certain thing. But you don't have to be eloquent in your speech, but a good deal of being able to communicate these things well to one another is humility. Humility and thoughtfulness. What is my goal? What is my aim here? And, and, and trying to, you know, win my brother over. We're trying to win, we're trying to win one another over to righteousness, right? Right, right. You know, not, not to our own preferences, not to, you know, anything else. And even, even if those, even if those, you know, whatever we're trying to win them over to, they continue to go down, you know, a road that we don't necessarily prefer. I mean, it is what it is. You know, me, I'm, I'm as, in terms of these social media streets, I can be as quiet as a church mouse. Yeah. Oh yeah. And you're the, you're the roaring lion. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't, I don't feel any type of way about that because we're different. And God made us different. That's it. And he made us different for it. He gave us certain roles to perform on this function in the church. It is what it is. And we're supposed to be helping and encouraging one another towards those ends. Instead of, you know, tearing one another, biting one another. Devouring one another. Remember, remember, remember the Bible study I taught Christians cat fights and cannibalism. Yeah. Yeah. But that, I taught that to try to appeal to the mob and to everybody else that, hey, Glacier's Five is there for reason, y'all. But if you divide, if you, if you fight and you, you bite and devour one another, be careful before you, before you become, before you consume one another, Paul said. Exactly. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? So, so, exactly. And that just basically went, whatever. So now it's, it's now, it's like, well, you have people that are now divided over. And here we go. Here we go, Drake. Now we have people who are divided between me and my brother Corey. Over what you may ask, John MacArthur. Yeah. John MacArthur. The same John MacArthur that you took issue with me. But here we are, you know what I'm saying? Years later, what's the problem? Nothing. There was a conversation. It was something that I said, and it wasn't that, you just took offense to it. You didn't like it. You hit me up. Right. Right. It wasn't something that I said that was sinful publicly, because like I said, my philosophy is this. And what I see in scripture, if I do something publicly, you have every right to respond in that public sphere for others to see that, hey, this is not what we're supposed to do. Now, yeah, it could be a courtesy for you to contact that part. That's fine. For me, I have no problem with that. The problem that I have is when people sin publicly, but want to be confronted privately. Right. I don't see that in scripture. What I see is the opposite, especially when it comes to the seriousness of the other sin. And you know something that's all right to me, Dre, I'm finding myself, and you're going to probably fall out of your trail or you have to get you another drink. I find it, I'm finding myself agreeing with Alexander Pagani. I know. I'm finding myself agreeing with this man's philosophy when it comes to public sin. Yeah. And it's like, wait a minute. Bruh. Bruh. When you're right, you're right, man. I mean, okay. So it doesn't matter what the package, it's what it contains. What is the content? What's the content? Yes. Exactly. So I'm watching, I'm watching, brother has sent me a video. He said, man, and I saw it on my timeline, but I said, I'm not about to watch Pagani and Dr. Michael Brown. I got to love Dr. Michael Brown, man. I'm, you know, me and him, cool, I ain't got a problem with him. But I know Pagani be on some other stuff because he just be lying and he's an inconsistent dude. I know that for a fact, right? Got receipts to prove it. So he interviewed Dr. Michael Brown on Charisma, on Charisma's website, on Charisma's YouTube channel the other day, right? And he said something again. I said, here we go, dawg on it. I got to agree with this dude again. He said, if you say something publicly, you post something publicly on social media, then it's up for public review. I'm like. So, the record in Galatians, and I asked this question, did the record in Galatians, did it say that Paul wrote a letter and sealed it and gave it to a private messenger and said, get this message to Peter? Make sure nobody else sees it. Is that, is that what happened? No, sir. No, no, that's not what happened. He would have preferred that though. I'm pretty sure he would have preferred it. I'm pretty sure he would have preferred it. Peter would have preferred that. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's not what happened. And when seen as public, it affects others. And it affects those who witness it publicly. Yes, yes. And it especially affects it. Let's think about it this way. It acts. Not long after the birth of the New Testament church. Come on, bro. Okay, yeah. We got to go there. I know, I know. We got to go there. My goodness. What you looking for? What you got? I'm pulling it up now. This is after. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead, bro. Those of you joining us, we have Pastor Dre Perkins in. We're talking about the subject of Let Us Reason Together. I hope you all are enjoying the content, enjoying what we're talking about. But please like and share, subscribe to the channel. Let people know that we're in the house with dealing with real issues right now. However, from a biblical perspective. But let's go. What you got? Acts chapter five. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. And there's a reason we're doing here. It's not even about, it's not even about, was this a private sin or it was sin. Yeah, man. It was sin. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. There was an inconsistency. There was dishonesty involved. So we're on the heels of what a lot of people like to, they use this as their biblical case for communism. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sharing all things. Yeah, sharing all things. Right. So the church was all, they all agreed, yeah, we're going to share everything we got. That's not, that's not prescriptive for. Freely, by the way, freely. Not exactly. They did it. Yeah, freely. Not govern, not governmentally. Yeah, yeah. Of course, it was, it wasn't by compulsion. It was free. Yes, sir. But in chapter five, verse one, but a man. So you see that, but that conjunction. There it is. But, you know, contrary to that, you know, being freed and freely giving, you know, to one another, but a man named Ananias with his wife, Sapphira, sold a piece of property and with his wife's knowledge. And I'm reading the ESV for those of you. Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. And with his wife's knowledge, he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostle's feet. But Peter said, so she was complicit in this. She knew what was happening. She knew what was told, what was said initially, what their commitment was. And she knew what her husband did. She was complicit in it. Right. He said, but Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? So you could have done what you wanted to. You could have committed what you wanted to from it. And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God. The author, the author of all reality, right? Everything that exists. When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And fear came upon all who heard of it. Yeah, man. God's dealing with sin brought fear to everyone who heard of it. That's right. This was this was this was a very public dealing. Now am I saying that every every sin needs to be dealt with publicly? No. Right. Sometimes these things need to be dealt with in a very public way, especially if there were other people involved that understood and knew what was happening and what was going on. After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in not knowing what had happened. And Peter said to her, tell me whether you sold the land for so much. You already knew. And she said, yes, for so much. But Peter said to her, how is it that you have agreed together to test the spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door and they will carry you out. Yes, sir. Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in and found her dead and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And here it is. The exposure of this sin. What happened? Oh my my. Great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things. This is one of the reasons why we don't need to be so eager to keep sin quiet, to keep it under wraps. If it's sin, if it's not, if it's just a personal matter between the two people, hey, I don't like you offended me here or there or whatever. Yeah, we need to reconcile and we need to deal with that. You did me wrong in this way. Okay, I repent. You know, that kind of thing. Right. But sometimes sin must be dealt with publicly and even more so reasonably whenever the sin is committed publicly. Publicly. Say that, bro. And this is the reason. This is one of the reasons why we don't need to shy away from that. If the sin is committed publicly, it needs to be dealt with publicly so the public can have or by God's grace can fear God. Come on, bro. Because he's going to, because they know that he's going to deal with sin. Yeah. He's going to address it. Yeah, yeah. You know, the public has respect for the church. You know, and we see many signs and wonders. You know, now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the Apostles. So that was kind of a precursor, you know, to even more convincing proves of the message of the Apostles. Right. But it started with the dealing of sin, the dealing with sin. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And again, it was very public. Carried them out, buried them. That's it. Three hours later, one drop came in, got the scooped the other way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some people that thought that would be extreme. Well, you know what? Holiness is extreme. Because God is holy. Because God is holy. So, but yeah. So let's let's do this, man. Again, I wanted to share these clips with you. Get your reaction to it. Because we're talking about, we're talking about sin. Clear sin. We're talking about issues that we know, you know, either the Word of God has explicitly said or we see, we see a principle that if, if rightly applied or ignored can cause, it can cause damage or it can cause others to, to fall into sin. So, I don't know if you've been aware, or if you may have more information than I do. Corey has, Corey, my brother Corey, mine has gone on record. And on his videos claiming that John MacArthur is not the bad guy, that Eileen Gray has an ax to grind against John MacArthur a year ago, a year prior to him making that statement this year. He said that, that Julie Royce does not have an ax to grind, but even if she did, it doesn't change the message or the, the, the research or her work regarding John MacArthur. Those things were last year. So what I want to do, Dre, I want to play some clips about one, two, three, four, maybe four, five, no, five clips, I believe it's going to be in succession. And I want to get your thoughts, you know, on them. And, and then let's, let's, let's, let's talk about it. So here's the first one. Let's go. Okay. We really expect the pastors and the church, even though we don't think that they should, we actually do expect them to make. Yeah. And Julie Royce, she does have an ax to grind. That doesn't necessarily mean that what she said was true. I mean, or was true or false actually. Am I a fan of Joe, which am I a fan of Julie Royce? No, I think, I think she clearly has an ax to grind. Does that mean that what she says is wrong? Everything that she says is wrong. No, I don't think that, I don't think so either. But now do I think that her doctor clearly not. Let's, let's just say this and I'll go ahead and leave. Let's just say she seems, she seems credible on this story. Let's just say though, Julie Royce has it in for MacArthur. Let's say Julie Royce has a dartboard and at the very center of the dartboard is a John MacArthur, right? Let's say all that is true. It doesn't nullify the fact that what we do know is true. Exactly. The man was convicted. Yep. So, but again, we didn't have a problem when other other newscasts came out blasting other Christians, the Ravi, because guess what? Secular media got in on Ravi Zacharias. Secular media got in on Carl Linz. Secular media got in on some of these other people. The, what's the, what's the pastor in Atlanta sending shots, photos of the guys? Oh, he's talking about Eddie Long. Eddie Long. Yeah. When they get in, you have a problem with the secular media, call them out because, well, because of their motives. We know that they're not for us. Right. Well, I mean, Julie Royce, Julie Royce should not have a job. All of these leaders should do their job and therefore Julie Royce couldn't report any of these nefarious activities or even legends, nefarious activities. Right. They're in lines of problem. And I've said before, every preacher is going to make a mistake. They're going to say something wrong, do something wrong. Right. Every single one. That's why I'm doing the little whole series, the, the right and wrong of so and so. Yeah, man. If you all think that Bodhi Bachman don't mess up and then, then get rid of your Bible. Yep. If you all think that John McCartney doesn't mess up, get rid of your Bible. If you all think that Paul Washer or whoever else doesn't mess up. If you all think that Paul in the Bible doesn't mess up. If you think that Peter doesn't mess up. Right. What do you buy for? You ain't reading that. Right. If you think that Jesus doesn't mess up. Oh, that's different. He's the only one. Exactly. He's the only one. And so when you guys get to idolize me, I don't idolize them. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. You couldn't even listen to an accusation against a person. Well, I think we're rushing to judgment. Didn't John MacArthur? I think we need more details. Well, did he get all the details or did he make a knee jerk response off of these people? Sound like he had more details than we know about. So I'm also OK. I can't wait for Julie to have her next report. All right, Dre. 2022, 2023. This is not going to be very popular. I think, yeah, there's obviously been a switch. I'll call it that. There's obviously been a switch. And at the same time, I see a chink in the armor. I see an area in which to address something I said earlier to bring that back to the floor right now. A failure to guard the heart. Because in that exchange, and I kind of got into, I didn't mean for it to be a dust-up, and I wasn't trying to come at this person. I can't remember their name. God bless you, whoever you are. I really appreciate you and your grace that you showed in the midst of that. But I was cautioning someone in one of your previous lives of being careful what they express, how they express their own opinions, specifically when they involve some sort of critical analysis of another person's character. Yeah, we have to be careful about that. I can hold an opinion in my mind about a certain person and say, well, okay, in my opinion, I think this person. But as soon as we come out of that, come out of our mouths with that, that's a different story. We're throwing it out there in the atmosphere now. We're throwing it out there in the realm of ideas. And that idea seeps into other minds and can have an opportunity to influence other minds in that way. So I think even in that clip where I'd agree, for the most part, what he's saying, I still see a little chink, a little chink in the armor and the efforts to guard the heart. And that he was willing to openly impugn the woman's character without real evidence. Without real evidence. And I don't think it's a spoiler. We're going to see that, unfortunately, play out now in 2023, where that's definitely, you know, a factor. And it becomes a factor for quite a few people. I think to grind. Well, how do you know that? And then people talk about why I see the articles. Well, read the articles. Do they do they present truth in here? Again, are we committed to the truth? Are we committed to facts? Or are we committed to our feelings about the matter? And so yes, that's my thoughts about that. I can't help but peer into the future a little bit and say, yeah, there's a little bit of something there that that shows up again. But but it turns out to turn them in a different direction, I believe. Yeah. So in this, how did how did it initially? I guess my question to you, Ray, is how did this initially hit you when you first, when you first heard, like you said, the switch? What what thoughts went through your mind, you know, regarding this when Corey had made those statements about Julie Roars and about John MacArthur now versus what he made in 2022? How did how did that initially, you know, affect you? I wondered why. And and, you know, my my, you know, wondering of why has a lot to do with, okay, what's what's the reason for this? What what do we know that's new now that that we didn't know back then, you know, to cause this particular, you know, switch? We can, you know, make we can draw correlations. There have been correlations drawn between, you know, interactions with other people and opportunities being presented and things of that nature. But even in that, we run the risk of playing the fourth person of the Trinity. And and and trying to ascribe motive, you know, to people. So that's what came around my just the question of, okay, why why is this happening? What do we know new now? What's different now than was the case back then? Yeah. Do you think do you think Corey should offer a biblical explanation as to his reasons or reasons why the switch occurred? Now, whether whether those quote unquote biblical explanations are exegetically based, but should he should he render a public explanation the same way that he did in his public, you know, declaration and defense and demand for John McArthur to be removed as well? Yeah, I think the reason needs to be biblical. It doesn't need to just float in the air. The way that it seemed it is really kind of floating right now in my estimation. He needs to give a biblical reason for I the switch because really not much has changed. And if anything, since that initially happened, wasn't there at least another victim that came forward? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Two of them. Yeah. Yeah. Two more. Yeah. So. And then El Dahan show this recently. Yeah. This year. Yeah. So yeah. So stand stand on the word of God and yeah, given, you know, given account to honestly, I mean, you're ultimately going to give an account to God. And we are we are called to give an account to one another in the body of Christ as well. Right. And we end up being that accountability from God by proxy toward one another as we do that. That's a part of the function of the body. That's that's a part of God's administration of grace to the rest of the body. We are we are one of the chief means of grace, the one and others that God uses to dispense his grace and and the grace of sanctification often happens. Most often happens when we have to be confronted about sin and we have to give an account and we have to repent. And especially when it does when we have to do that publicly, it has a has a profound testimony to the church. It doesn't feel good nobody nobody saying it feels good. Right. But it's it's necessary and it's sanctifying. And I think everyone involved will ultimately realize that, you know, in the final analysis of it. Yeah. So the next the next segment of clips. This is Corey and his position regarding John MacArthur and his demand that he repent is the man that he come forward and publicly make rallies that wrong. And then the infamous switch again. But here we go. Am I or anyone else allowed to say anything about John MacArthur? Well, sure we are. Sure we are. And I'm not I'm not rebuking. I'm calling out an issue here. I'm not saying John MacArthur off with your head. I'm saying we got you got we got a serious problem to deal with. And if you have done wrong, according to this very same passage, you ought to be you ought to be rebuked in the presence of all. That means that we're going to kill you. That means that we're going to, you know, get rid of your retirement, stop your stipend, no more royalties or anything from the John MacArthur study Bible. But no, that's not what we're saying. But we're just calling out. And then you have to come back and say, you know what, I was wrong. I did wrong. Here's why he should make a public profession, not just to the church, because we all because John MacArthur is public, because we've got to study Bibles that bear his name. We've got commentaries, all these things. There's grace to you. And so if you want people to buy into your teaching, not just your doctrine teaching, but also your example, that's what has to happen. That's what I'm really interested to hear because I know I know people on his side, his team and heard about it. Same here. And they're going to be, you know, coming up with a defense. I know the Bible something we not even said yesterday that he's going to be responding in a day or two. Okay. I want to hear, you know, you're going to respond in the mind now. You know, you're going to respond to my post. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he is. He is. And so I want to just leave for me. I'm going to wait a day or so. But how I feel now tells me you need to go ahead and step back. You had a good run. It might be time to go ahead and call it a day because you failed in one of your most basic, one of your most basic criteria. You're supposed to protect your people. Right. And you didn't matter of fact, and I don't need you protect her. I don't need you fail to protect her out. You put her out. Yeah. Put her and the children out. And the babies. Yeah. And I know that if there's a, if there's, there are these letters that are going out with the church's name, let's just be honest. Let's, let's be clear. If the church's name is on it, that's your name. Exactly. And ain't nothing moving. Ain't nothing. I know for a fact, ain't nothing moving at Grace Church without MacArthur approving it. Nothing. Nothing. He's made that clear. I've heard him say that himself. The style of worship, the sage's, all of that. And that's, that's fine. God bless Eileen Gray. Yeah. Yeah. That is, if, if, if what, and I'm saying if, I don't know, if what Julie says is true and I have no reason not to believe, but if she said, what she said is true, that's an awesome woman. That is a, the way she handled things. That is an awesome woman. If what Julie Roy said is true, every single person on the elderboard, and I guess what I'm as a pastor now, you got to go. Absolutely. Absolutely. John MacArthur, if what, if what was said is true. Yeah. And there is no other side of the story, even if John MacArthur did not know, even if he didn't even, if, if what she said is true, you didn't meet with a woman. That's bad. Right. And if you did not know, that's bad. No. If what she said is true, you have to go. John MacArthur is not the bad guy, the boogeyman, the wrong guy. He is not. He's not. And you guys, I think many of you all are going to miss the boat and miss the blessing because you want to, you want to go this route. Now, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'm wrong for, I'm wrong for showing that you on tape. Okay. Just, just to, just to be clear. Okay. Just to be clear. Bro, let me grab mine then. Just to be clear. Okay. Don't throw this. Let me, let me, let me get, let me get mine too. Let me get this one. Exactly. I got the study Bible. Yeah. Look down here. I got all his commentaries down here. They still got down there for, for research purposes. Okay. I got, I got, I got some books up here still, you know, over here still. Yeah. Yeah. For research purposes. Right. But proceed. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the problem. It's like, none of what, none of what was brought out, brought to light through Julie Royce's journalism. Yeah. Investigative journalism has been disproven. Not one. And, and, and it's been verified. So that's a problem. That's a problem. And I'll just point to this and I've been saying it for several years now. Nobody really hears it because like I said, I'm quiet as a church mouse on social media most of the time. But in my own circles, you know, celebrity Christianity is a trap. Come on. It's a trap. Come on. It's a trap because we, we ultimately end up putting people on pedestals that they really don't belong on. Absolutely. And, and as soon as something like this happens, we're unable to, to, to, to deal with it properly. Yeah, man. We're unable to deal with it biblically, because of our, our emotions, our, our, our, the sentimentality of it all. Yeah. This person holds a special place in my heart. Okay. Well, who should hold a special place in your heart above that individual? And, and, and, and when these kinds of things happen, the integrity of the church and his holy name is what's, is what's at stake. Yeah, man. So yeah, I mean, nothing has been disproven. Everything's been pretty much verified. So that's a problem. Right. That's a problem. Yeah. And that, that, you know, that needs to be, it does need to be addressed. And I think the problem also comes is when, or I see it as also hypocrisy, because by, by that same standard, we want the Pogonis of the world, the Saldivars of the world, the Marcus Rogers of the world to be held accountable for what they do publicly, publicly. And, and yet we give people like Cory, or he doesn't, he wherever else doesn't, you know, but the subject is Cory, we give people like Cory a pass, because, you know, he's soft spoken, because he's mild mannered, because he's not verbose. He's not, you know, hype like me or whatever. And so we make these, we make these character assessments to determine whether or not we're going to confront people in their sin. Right. And that's idolatry. Not only is it idolatry, it's also a fear of man, because we value what man says, or what man will do, or what we're afraid man will do, or we're afraid of what man may take away from us, or revoke from us, than what we are from God. And, and I'm seeing, I'm seeing a lot of it, to where we're now having people basically divided over two men who at one time were saying and singing the same tune, the same note, regarding John MacArthur. And I'm not being braggadocious or arrogant, but I haven't changed my position regarding John MacArthur. If anything, I've doubled down on it. If anything, I'm becoming more and more convinced that John MacArthur needs to step down, that he has, he has caused more damage than, than the average Christian could even imagine, because we don't want to know the truth. Because when I would brought to light, we're denying it and we're shooting the messenger, instead of the facts of the message is this, here are receipts, here's documented evidence, here's court records, here's police records. I mean, we have all this stuff to where as if we were to do this, if we were to do this with a false teacher, we wouldn't even need that much to indict them. But for our own, you know, it's different. Yeah, yeah. And here's the part that really bugs me about it. If we consider John MacArthur, a brother, we should not be running interference in the face of substantial and substantiated allegations. Yeah, yeah. We shouldn't be, we shouldn't, we shouldn't be trying to protect. We should be, and it's not that we, we deal in extremes mostly, unfortunately. We shouldn't, you know, cape, the term that you've used, we shouldn't cape for them. And at the same time, we shouldn't just throw them to the walls. We need to deal with it biblically. Yeah. Because what? Because we are the means of sanctification for one another. Yeah. In the body, God has given us to be that. So if there's a matter of sin that needs to be addressed, far be it for someone to be such a powerful personality to where people fear, you know, being able to address it, or even worse, believe that they may benefit from not addressing it if it's a clear matter of sin. Yeah. I mean, that's even worse. And dangerous. Absolutely. Yeah, it's very dangerous. Yeah. So yeah, we don't need to, we don't need to run interference in the process of God's sanctifying work in the church. Here's, here's a, here's a screenshot. And I wanted to share this on record because I shared it before. This was last year's YouTube comment that he had in the, in the, in the chat. You see this here on the screen. I got it in the middle between both of us. It says, smart Christians channel, I'm asking that every reform believer on YouTube join me in demanding that John MacArthur steps down. This was last year. Last year, our brother Corey said this. And to this day, he refuses to respond. He refuses to give an answer. As first Peter three 15 tells us for the reason and hope that lies with him with the, with the given answer, give a defense for what we, what we believe, especially if we're talking about this person was in sin, he needs to step down. This person, you know, shame the woman sinfully. And now we flip and now we don't give any explanation or reason behind that. I believe that is, that is, that is careless. I know it isn't careless, but it shows a lack of respect and integrity to the word of God and to his commands because it is clear how we are supposed to operate. It is clear how we're supposed to function. And again, too much is given to raise as much as required. It's simple as that. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to play these last few clips here and get your thoughts about it. This is now, you know, our brother Corey. Again, doubling down one minute and then back up in the next. Here we go. Am I or anyone else allowed to say anything about John MacArthur? Well, sure we are. Sure we are. All right. I'm not, I'm not rebuking. I'm calling out an issue here. I'm not saying John MacArthur off with your head. I'm saying we got a, you got, we got a serious problem to deal with. And if you have done wrong, according to this very same passage, you ought to be, you ought to be rebuked in the presence of all. That means that we're going to kill you. That means that we're going to, you know, get rid of your retirement, stop your stipend, no more royal teas or anything from the John MacArthur study Bible. No, that's what we're saying. But we're just calling out. And then you have to come back and say, you know what? I was wrong. I did wrong. Here's why he should make a public profession, not just to the church, because we all, because John MacArthur is public, because we've got study Bibles that bear his name. We've got commentaries, all these things, there's grace in you. And so if you want people to buy into your teaching, not just your doctrine teaching, but also your example, that's what has to happen. It's not hard to realize you're not perfect. Right. Pride comes in when you realize, oh, I missed that. I misspoke. I said something, did something wrong. When you don't come back and acknowledge that, oh man, I shouldn't have said that or I misspoke. Folks will hit me up and say, hey, did you know you said so and so? You know what? I misspoke. I'm saying, I'm saying this, and I'm saying, I'm saying, I apologize. I messed up because you speak so much, you're bound to, you know, a synapse just moves or whatever and just, that happens. But once it's brought to your attention and you said it publicly, I got to deal with the public. And I want you all to move away from this thought. I want you all to move away from this thought that everything needs, even if something was done publicly, needs to be addressed publicly. Now, with this lady Gray, I think that she needs to be addressed at least privately. Hey, we messed up. Apologize and so forth. But publicly, no, we stopped that. Stop that. That's you on tape. Matthew 18 is very clearly for somebody that sins against you personally. But a lot of public Christian figures use Matthew 18 as sort of a trap. So if you critique them in public, they'll say, hey, why did you bring this to me in private? You were required by Matthew 18 to bring this to me in private. And I told Julian an email, the last one I sent to her before she quit responding to me, I said, look, public public error gets public rebuke. Because that public error is affecting everybody that hears it. If I go to you in private and you correct it, and I've won my brother, that error is still out there. That error is, especially in the information age, that error is still affecting everybody. So aside from going to that person in private and they issue a public correction, they issue the rebuke on their own, which I'd be fine with. If they're not doing that, everybody else can be protected by addressing that in public. And I think what I told her was public error gets public correction, public lies get public rebuke. Some formula like that. But basically, because she complained and said, hey, you've never, before you wrote your articles, you never contacted me, this, that, and the other. I said, Julie, that wasn't a sin against me. You're slandering and you're creating falsehood and false beliefs publicly. This needs a public response. Did I answer the question? Now, ironically, I agreed with him until I had to expose David Morrill for the slandering and liar that he is. But what he said regarding public rebuke, public sin for public rebuke, he's correct. No problem with that at all. But the interesting thing is, is that Corey used to believe public sin, public rebuke, now he's flipped. But the people that he now, that he has in his ear, because I know this to be a fact, because when he and I had our conversation, he said, there are other people who disagree and say that she does have an ex-agreement. And there are other people that has other reports and articles out. And I said, Corey, who are these other people? I'm not going to tell you all that. I'm not going to tell you all that. Why are you letting these people get in your ear to flip and to switch against something that you knew to be true. And now you're siding with, you're siding with the mob. And even David, David immoral or David no moral is even agreeing with us when it comes to public sin deserving public rebuke. Corey did it one time. Now he's not. What's your thoughts? When there, when the focus and the, and the goal of the aim is not the pursuit of truth, if the commitment is not to truth, there are going to be inherent inconsistencies. It really is that simple. And they will eventually show up. Like a person could be on the path, apparently of truth and, and appealing according to truth, navigating according to truth, you know, reconciling according to truth, convicting according to truth. And if, but if the central focus is not a commitment to truth, eventually they're going to go off of that path. And, and here's, here's where it gets really dangerous. And we've talked about this before. I've taught just a few other people about it too. I want to bring this term in here. And some people will say, oh, it's just some pop culture, psycho psychology term or whatever. I think it's a little more than that. So we were talking about the conscience. Right? Yes. Got questions.org says the conscience is defined as the part of the human psyche that induces mental anguish and feelings of guilt when we violate it and feelings of pleasure and well being when our actions, thoughts and words are in conformity to our value system. So really what they did with it, what they did to try to describe it, the conscience is such a complex thing to, you know, to, to wrap your brain around. Right. That they basically describe what it does. They didn't even describe what it is. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we all have a conscience and we understand that this is a part of what it does. Cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance. Oh boy. Cognitive dissonance. Okay. I'm going to read the definition from psychology today. Okay. Cognitive dissonance is a term for the state of discomfort felt when two or more modes of thought contradict each other. I'm going to read that again. Cognitive dissonance is a term for the state of discomfort felt when two or more modes of thought contradict each other. The clashing cognitions may include ideas, beliefs or the knowledge that one has behaved in a certain way. Now, you know, you read that on the surface. And again, I get back to this hyper compartmentalization of everything. Yeah. If it's spiritual, it's not intellectual. If it's, you know, no, stop, stop, because, because our faith, our faith has content. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. That's it. That's it. It has content, right? Yeah. And it has, it has intellectual content. Right. We think and we process and we make decisions. We make judgments about what's right and what's wrong. God has built us that way. That is a part of us being made in his image. That's a part of us, a part of what he did when he breathed into our nostrils, the breath of life. He gave us that ability. And above all of the other creature created beings in this, you know, creatures in this, in this world, he gave us the ability to reason with him. Okay. Yeah, man. He gave us word, right? Yeah. So when we, I want you to think about it this way, cognitive dissonance, you see the state of discomfort felt and the clashing, cognitive dissonance is actually, in my estimation, is actually a pain receptor for a pain sensor for the conscience. Mm. When you come across two conflicting thoughts or ideas, you got to make a choice because your conscience is going to, it's not going to feel good. Your conscience is going to be like, Oh man, well, if this is true, that can't be true. When we begin to ignore that, it's kind of like when you have a pain in your stomach, instead of going to the doctor to say, Hey, I need to figure out what the deal is with this pain. No, you just pop a couple, you know, high dose ibuprofen and keep it moving. Before you know it, because you have dead in that pain without actually dealing with the issue, you did, or you got staged something, whatever. And, and, and, and, you know, and there's really no hope of a cure. You know, that's what could ultimately happen if you don't actually address the pain that, that, that, you know, that's being caused because the pain is just a, an indicator. Same thing with cognitive dissonance, that discomfort that you feel mentally and emotionally and psychologically. That's an indicator that something is wrong with your reasoning. You, you don't, you cannot hold two conflicting ideas. You cannot hold to an idea that conflicts with your actions. It's the way that God built us. So what happens, the more that we do that our, our conscience, it ultimately starts to dead and it ultimately starts to become insensitive. That's right. Right. When we deny what's true and what's real, same thing applies. It's the Roman, Roman's one type of judgment that we see happening. Right. They know God exists, but they deny it. They get stuck in their cognitive dissonance. So what's what happens? They become dumber. The ultimate result of it is that they end up doing things that are not productive, you know, you, you, you men with men and women with women and, and what happens? God gave them over the, the, um, taking the roof off, if you will, that Greg Coco talks about the, the drawing it out to his final conclusion. What happens? God releases the restraint and gives them over to what? A reprobate, a useless mind. They're not able to reason. They're not able to make sound moral judgments about things any longer. And unfortunately that kind of thing can happen. It can happen to us as well. Not that specific kind of judgment. If we're truly redeemed, but our consciences can, can, can, um, can be harmed. They can be damaged if we're not consistently adhering to what is true. Amen. Amen. And I'm glad you mentioned that because I was thinking about, I was thinking about how, how, what you were saying. And I said, yeah, he's about to, he's about to take it to his logical conclusion. If we keep ignoring the conscience, it becomes desensitized. Or as Paul said, it becomes seared. Seared. That's past feeling, past feeling, man. Uh, I remember it was, I remember as a kid, man, um, my dad used to, uh, years ago, I mean, when I was a little boy, my dad used to, years ago, he had a razor blade. And, um, this is back in the day. Y'all, they didn't go to doctors and stuff to get their feet worked on, you know, when they had corns or calluses on their feet, he had, he had a razor blade, man. And he would take, you know, hit the razor and he would take his foot, man. And if it was, uh, it was, it was, if it was callus on his corns on his feet or something like that, or even on his hand, he would take that razor blade and he would, he would just, he would just shave it off. He would just shave it, he would slice it off. He wouldn't cut down to the, to the, to the, you know, to the core of his hand over his skin, but he knew just enough to take it off because that, that part of that hand was callus, that's what they call him calluses for. You know, you know, it's there, you see it, but there's no feeling in it, right? And so I remember that. I was like, there, what you're doing? And he's like, I'm just taking this, this, this dead skin off. It's taking it dead. I said, it's not gonna hurt you. They knocked this, it's dead. Like, and that's, and that's what I remember, man. And just, you know, and it gets to that point where, um, we need to be careful as believers. I mean, as Christians, we need to be very careful that these lives that we do, these, these, these cam-ups that we do, this is not a joke for those of us who are, who are striving to reason, like, like we, like we mentioned today, you know, with our brothers and sisters, because this has caused a divide. I mean, this has caused a divide and divided Christ over someone who just a year ago, me and Corey agreed that this man was inciting. In fact, I want to, I want to cite the text that our brother Corey was mentioning. And I want to go to the scripture and post it on the, on the screen here. First Timothy chapter five verse 19 through 21. Paul says this, do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. Well, we have more than three witnesses regarding what John MacArthur did. I mean, this man wrote a letter to a little girl who was being, who was being sexually assaulted by her own father. He put a woman out of the church whose, whose, whose husband was abusive to the wife and then sexually molested his own children in some grotesque ways. I'm not going to repeat it now. You can watch the videos about that. And this man knew it, but it puts him out, right? Elder Honcho puts him out after having an investigation that was requested by MacArthur and the elders. They didn't like the findings. Gator's man and all tomato put him out. Prior to Elder Honcho being put out, he had a young lady, young girl, teenage girl that was kidnapped by a pedo at grace community church. She had to jump out of her car to escape her abuser. A little girl, a teenager. Wow. And for two years, MacArthur's church did not report it at all. Right? Now those are the charges. Those who continue in sin rebuking the presence of all, this is, this was, this was the verse that Cory was mentioning on the, on that clip that he was talking about, that he needs to be rebuked publicly, so that the rest will be fearful of sin. Who are the rest? The elders, the antecedent is the elders. Of course, the congregants are going to see this, but it says rebuking the presence of all so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of his chosen angels to maintain these without bias, doing nothing in partiality, favoritism. Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share the responsibilities for the sins of others. Keep yourself free from sin. Verse 24, the sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment. For others, their sins follow after. And I believe that's what we are right now, Brother Dray. I believe we're in that right now. The sins of others, it follows after. What's that after? What we're seeing right now? What we're seeing right now is what is taking place. I believe in my opinion. Exactly. Yeah. I honestly believe that. Yeah. So one more. Yeah, go ahead. I want to point out before it leaves our stream here, I want to point out, Brother Xerrix, I wish he could jump on the live. He dropping some knowledge. I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him too, bro. I'm going to get him to go Neophyte. But I'm dropping some knowledge right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, put that up there. Yeah. Yeah, it is right there. Cognitive dissonance often happens when people have been Hegelianized. You'll know the Hegelian dialectic is just look it up. And the dialectic practice has occurred. And so I'm going to have an unpack that when I bring him on. He's just been trying to take care of his phone friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanted to share one more clip. Gotta get your thoughts about it. I'm pretty sure you've seen it. But again, I don't think people have had an opportunity to hear your heart and your position about it and what should be our response as believers. So let me go ahead and drop it. And here we go. Would you go to Gray's Community Church if Eileen Gray was your daughter? Would I go to Gray's Community Church? Well, see, that's why you can't answer a question because that would affect me personally. Now I've got some skin in the game. It's like the guy that jumped on my daughter or did something to violate my daughter. Could I sit on the bus right beside him? No. Could you? Yes. Why? See, what we do sometimes is we want to make the emotional argument and then that governs. That would be hard for me. I mean, I look at my daughters as though they're gold. Now, do I look at your daughters the same way I look at my daughter? No. No. There's four billion other daughters on the planet. I don't look at them the same way I look at mine. All right, Dre, you have children. You have daughters. If Cory Minor, where you're a pastor and you heard him say that, in light of what we know regarding the Eileen Gray, regardless of regarding the abuse, regardless of any fellow image bearer, I'm just asking. I'm not trying to set up a question, but I'm just asking you being a father, you being a husband, you know, you being a human being, if Cory Minor, where you're a pastor and you heard him say that, what would be your response? How would you respond and react to that? I'd have to have a conversation to really examine his reasoning. And I would point out and really challenge the grasp of the Imago Dei and the implications. The ultimate ramifications in terms of what God expects of us and from us. When I hear, you know, even just seeming disregard for another human life and any kind of damage done to that human life, I often think about, and I even think about it now, and I'm going to bring it up in a little bit here with something that seems a little less malicious, maybe benign, but I think it's still an important consideration. But the Imago Dei, God sees his image as so important that when someone violates it, they out of here. Genesis 9 verse 6, if a man shares another man's hand, shall his blood be shed? Why? Because God made man in his image. That's it. That's the underlying reason for the Decalogue. He made man in his image, so we are to look to him and worship him. He made man in his image, so we are to treat one another and honor that image in one another. So to disregard that, that's an issue. That's a cause for concern. And especially when it involves true harm being done to that individual. Something worthy of death in the Old Testament law. It's worthy of death. We don't see it that way in America, certainly in the majority of our states, sexual abuse, rape, those kinds of things. Yeah, to disregard another human life. And I'm not saying that Brother Corey is just saying to heck with that life, but it kind of speaks to how exactly do we see it. And it doesn't always play out exactly this way. But for the most part, one of the things that evangelist Hoskins would do with us after he would teach us from the Bible, he would quiz us afterward to see if we were learning. And sometimes we try to hum and ho to get through it. And he would always tell us, if you see it right, you'll say it right. Come on, man. If you see it right, you'll say it right. Wow. And that should certainly be the case for those of us who are supposed to be mature, who are supposed to be teeth of the Bible. We should definitely be beholden to that particular principle for the most part. Yeah, we're going to misspeak and make mistakes in our speech oftentimes. But for the most part, if we see something right, we're going to say it right. And I would have to have a conversation without ascribing any kind of motive right now even. Hey, let's reason together. Let's talk about this because this doesn't sound right. Yeah. What are your thoughts? And this is my last question for you. What were your thoughts regarding the court records and the court documents that came up in the interview that I had with Attorney McGrew, Tara McGrew last weekend? And for the record, that was precipitated because of Corey's constant mentioning of him going to court. In fact, when he had made the statement about the Eileen Gray question, he did a video called Let Me Clarify. Well, it didn't clarify anything. It made the situation even more messy and more confusing and more frustrating for a lot of people. And even was an insult because he did it as a premier. And when he did it as a premier, I think he did that. He did that one as a premier or he did another one. I think I forgot the name of it, but nonetheless, he had a premier video. People were tuned in. I was as well too. And when I saw it, he deflected and made himself to be the victim, thus getting vindicated by God instead of being the victimizer and receiving mercy, which he did not have to receive by God, but God chose to give it to him in spite of what he'd done. But he made that whole scenario and that whole story to be about him and come to find out what made me do my digging. I was like, man, what did this system do to him? That he basically did all this time for one offense. I mean, it just made me a logical person. Dang, because that's what he kept saying. For one offense, for one offense, well, there were 64 people, at least, that were affected and sinned against. And they charged him with that one. Yeah. And could have charged him with everything from what Brother Tarwin was saying, but we weren't told the truth. Our brother lied. And see, that's the point. He lied about it. And yes, I had to come forward publicly and make this thing right because he made a public statement and he had kept doing this. So it wasn't that me trying to attack this brother or anything like that. It was all in the aftermath of the whole Eileen Gray situation. I'm thinking that I basically, you know, I should have called him. Brother, why do I have to call you? Did you call me when you did your video defending John MacArthur? No, you didn't. You didn't consider calling me knowing that I've been dealing with John MacArthur and exposing him and warning people, warning people. And so did Corey. So you didn't call me and say, Hey, brother, what do you think about me doing this video basically caping for MacArthur and basically telling people to not listen to Eileen Gray because she has an axi grind. Even though a year later, I didn't say anything like that. But now I'm flipping. What do you think about that? Say, go, I said, bro, are you on crack? Are you smoking something? Of course, don't do that. No, don't do that. No. But he didn't consider me. He didn't call me. So my thing is, okay, if you put it out there publicly, like John MacArthur said, when he dealt with Tony Evans, hey, man, you put it in the book. You said it, you did it. That's it. I can't defend that. And I wouldn't expect anybody to defend me if I'm publicly reneging or publicly, you know, causing people to be confused, because now I've had some so-called pseudo epiphany regarding regarding John MacArthur and Julie Royce because I'm listening to Protestia and David Morrow and the mob. Yeah. Yeah. If you see it right, you'll say it right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I have, and I have, I have, this causes me now thinking about it to have questions about, because here's one of the, here's one of the really tricky things with the conscience. A person can be truly convinced of something and be, and be 100% wrong about it. Yeah, man. Stronger wrong. Yeah, right. We can have a very strong conviction about something and be wrong. It does kind of make me wonder how exactly that event from his point of view was like the entire thing. Again, this is where it gets tricky. Sometimes, depending on how we're viewing it, what lens are we viewing it through? Are we viewing it through the lens of our own emotion? Are we viewing it through the lens of truth? Yeah. If we're not, the facts can get distorted a little bit. Yeah. Kind of like a, kind of like a fun, a fun house mirror, you know, instead of a, instead of a flat, clear, you know, surface to view this thing through. Right. And, and I start to wonder that. And I think, you know, my, that assessment might be, might lean toward the side of grace a little bit, if you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely. But I, but I, but I think it, it could be a consideration. Yeah. All the, all the same. That kind of thing needs to be addressed. Yeah. You know, we can't, we can't let up someone either believe a lie or tell a lie unchecked. Right. We simply can't do that. I appreciate you bringing Tarwin on. That was very refreshing. Um, that brother is solid and, and is sharp and, um, was very matter of fact with it. Yeah. And, and, and that's what I like. Just, just, just the facts, man. Just the facts. Just the facts. Yeah. And, and, and that's what he brought. And, um, and that's what I have to go by. Right. You know, and, and that, you know, that leads into, you know, my assessment that I just gave of that situation either, either there was a very genuine misunderstanding of what was happening or a lie was told. And in any case, it needs to be addressed. Right. And, and like we, like we've established, if that thing is put out there publicly, yeah, you can, you can, you can extend a, you know, a tremendous amount of grace and go to that person privately. But, um, all the same, it's still ultimately needs to be dealt with publicly. And this is where our relationships and maintaining those relationships are important. Um, because you can, if that relationship is intact, you can say, Hey, man, I'm going, Hey, let's talk about this thing. Cause I need to address this or you need to address it or whatever. And the blow is less severe. Right. And it feels like less of an attack and more of a faithful wounds. Amen. Yeah. Unfortunately, when you distance yourself from one another, those faithful wounds feel like a tax and malicious attacks at that. Right. And that's what causes a lot of the division. Right. And then you have the immature interpreting it as that. And then when you don't say, you meaning Corey, or if it was me on other side, but I'm just going to say Corey, well, if Corey doesn't say, wait, listen, y'all, listen, I'm not being attacked. You know, I was wrong for what I said. Let's not make this about me. I need to make this right. He's not saying that he's basically noticing and seeing the divide and seeing people split, who were once in fellowship with each other, who had the same mindset and the same mind that was going and moving towards a common goal. And now we're dividing because you have changed your position. The Psalmist says, let the righteous smite me in kindness. Do not let my head refuse it. It is like oil upon my head. He said, let the righteous smite me. Not tickle. Right. He says, smite me. So like you said, the Proverbs 27, 5, 6, faithful all the wounds of a friend, it's going to hurt. It's going to sting, but it's not for the purpose of destroying. It's for the purpose of us developing Christ-like character, because again, we are being watched. And I'll say this, because I've said this to someone before, I don't know if I made it public. I know if the situations were reversed. If I were Corey and Corey with me, nobody would probably have a problem with what Corey was doing, exposing me if I was walking around in hypocrisy and making myself to be something and I'm not, because people already see my personality as being something that they detest anyway. So this would be right up the alley. Oh man, finally get them Corey. You see what I'm saying? Even though the sin would be the issue, they'll make it about the individual instead of the situation, the older sin itself. And so I just think that, my concern is we have to deal with what's true. Here's the facts. The facts are, our brother lied. The facts are, our brother's not responding to these statements that he has made on record. This is not something that people have doctored up, that people have cut and spliced. No, brother, you said this. You owe the body of Christ an explanation. You know, my thing is, if him and Sean Isaacs said that I was in sin for using rhetoric and saying the word nigger, if you said that's that sin and it ain't, what about telling a person or telling your audience that John MacArthur is not in sin and he was responsible for financing a pedophile and so he got caught and their church is being used as a haven for sex offenders, child molesters and white beaters. Under the guise of biblical counseling, how was that not a sin? And look at the ramifications behind that. So again, I just wanted to get your thoughts about that, man, because this is why we have to be consistent, man. We have to be, because like you said, the world is watching. And at the same time, when there is conflict, we can't run from it. We have to deal with it. We had to confront it. We have to deal with it if it's going to cause further confusion and lack of peace in the body. No, Sean Isaacs does not, I'm not saying that Sean Isaacs is back to John MacArthur. I said Sean Isaacs and Corey were saying that I was in sin because I had said nigger in the video when I was confronting people for supporting and voting for Joe Biden. And I was talking to the black community and also I'm from Detroit. So that's just the language and also this is my channel. If it's no different than somebody who goes to somebody else's channel, you can't tell somebody how to care for themselves if it's not sin. And one more thing, the reason why I brought up Alex Pagani and Dr. Michael Brown is because they have made a lot of key points, man, that I'm going to make a reaction video to that I believe is very important to how we see individuals and their personalities and their character and how God uses all of that for his purpose, for him to draw people with that type of personality, with that type of background or lifestyle, insofar as it's not sinful. So I do plan on doing a making a reaction video from that. But I wanted you to give your final thoughts, man, any final words, any closing comments or remarks, man. I know we've been in here for like two and a half hours, but anything you wanted to share with the Body of Christ or even to Brother Corey, man, what would you say to Brother Corey if you had the opportunity to talk with him? Brother Corey, I would tell him in case you're watching or you see this video, just let's just reason together. Let's have a conversation. Let's talk about these things. And let's talk about him reasonably and chief of all biblically. To the Body of Christ, I would encourage us all to make sure we're walking in humility. Walking in humility before God, eager to maintain that unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace. And even as we see these things happening and we get offended by the actions of some, all the while still recognized that each one of these people that we might be offended by that have done wrong and we think needs to be addressed, they're also made in the image of God and there's a biblical prescription for how we are to deal with it. And let's be beholden to that. Let's not get involved in a whole bunch of name calling and even from our side, we can become guilty of backbiting and devouring one another. Let's not do that. Let's be those who are open to reason, as the scripture says, and in dealing with these things reasonably and chief of all biblically. Brother, I'll let people know how they can reach out to you, your YouTube channel or any social media outlets that you can be restate. Okay, three things I'll give you. I started a blog many years ago and I need to update it. I have updated it a little bit, but it's punygiant.wordpress.com, punygiant.wordpress.com. And you can also follow me on Twitter at puny underscore giant. And my YouTube channel is youtube.com slash at the punygiant. All right. And I only got only got one video there right now, but I'm planning on planning on uploading some more content there. And the one video that's there ironically enough is faithful wounds. So check it out if you get a chance. How appropriate. How appropriate. How timely. Right, right, right. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right, well, brother man, thank you, man. So much blessings to you and the wife and the family, man. Of course, it was a pleasure for me, man, and an honor for me to have you on. It was definitely long overdue, but I'm glad I'm able now to go through and hit up my brother's man and people that I want to have on and have these type of real, honest and transparent open discussions. So, brother, thank you, man. And I'll be talking to you again soon. All right, brother. Appreciate it. All right, brother. Peace. All right, peace. All right, y'all, that is the, that is the live. And again, brother, Dray Perkins, please go through his website. Please go to the YouTube channel, subscribe to it, follow it, support him. Definitely need to have him to get his flowers topside. Very good, brother in the Lord. And now, thank you for his transparency and his honesty as well. And thank you all for sticking it out with us tonight. Very helpful that we were able to get this, this information to people that are wanting to know the truth. Probably what you say, man. Can we get a tease on what you, on what you change your mind about? Oh, no, just, just what, just what Pagani said, man. I mean, bro, dude, broke clocks. This dude is a broke clock, bro. But he's, he's been, he's been saying some, some, some truthful stuff that we in on our side of the aisle should have been saying and be consistent of saying a long time ago. And it's sad. It is really sad when, you know, Pagani is, is hitting it and we can't. So, so, no, no, he's still, he's still, he's still the heretic. I'm not talking about that. But what he said in the, in the interview with Dr. Michael Brown, he was, he, he made some, he made some good points. So I gotta, you know, give Ms. Proper's on that in that regard and only in that regard. Tomorrow, tomorrow, Lord, when tomorrow I will have, hopefully, hopefully, uh, Ms. Uh, Ms. Furrow speaks, Ms. Furrow speaks. Um, if you were privy to the conversation I had with her on her channel, I told her I was going to table it to have her to be able to, uh, came up on my channel and forward to respond to the statements and accusations that she made on her channel against me and for us to have a dialogue and discussion. So hopefully, uh, that would be, that would be a, uh, respectful, uh, video. So, uh, you meant a video show. I'm not, I don't know what you mean, bro. I'm, I'm, I probably had to hit you later because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm confused right now. So I don't know what you mean. Um, but anyway, yes. So that's tomorrow at seven o'clock, uh, tomorrow at seven o'clock, since your standard time, uh, you'll be able to, uh, join us live and, and, and hear the dialogue and hear the discussion between myself and miss, uh, furrow speaks. And that's when she goes by. Yeah. I do, I do some shorts, y'all. I do a little bit of shorts. Just go to my YouTube channel. I haven't done a lot, but I have been doing, I have been doing some. So I need, I need to do more. I agree. I need to do more and I'm trying. Bear with me, y'all. Bear with me. Um, so, but again, tomorrow that will be, uh, there'll be tomorrow night at seven o'clock central eight o'clock Eastern, uh, tune in. The, uh, the link is already in the channel. You can also be able to, you also should be able to, uh, share it as well if you are able to do so. Um, real quick again, um, please like, subscribe, and share this information, this channel on your, on your platforms and on your pages. If you could please, that's helped us to get this information out. We do appreciate that. Also, if you'd like to support the ministry, finance, you can do that as well by going to the donation links below at the bottom of the video. Uh, we encourage you to use these, uh, options unless you are in Canada. Eh, you can then use, uh, you can use, you can use also, um, super chat, but we encourage you all to use the three options available here. That helps us to, uh, receive the, uh, the resources, uh, expeditiously and also at the same time that you send it out. So we do appreciate that. Also, BCB merchandise, you can do that by clicking the, uh, the link below at the bottom of the video, or as you see ticket across the screen, you can capture that as well too. So that is my time. Ladies and gentlemen, uh, I do thank you all so much for yours. Uh, we do appreciate it. Thank you all for your prayers, your support and those who have been supporting us. We thank you. We do appreciate that. Uh, you do not know how much this means for us to see the body of Christ support of the members in the body of Christ. So, um, tomorrow, lower it again at seven o'clock since your standard time. Uh, have a blessed Lord's Day. I hope you all will be able to go to church. We'll be, we'll be going to, uh, church tomorrow. Um, not impact, but we will be going to a church that we have been, uh, attending, um, before we went there. But anyway, I hope you all have a blessed Lord's Day. Get you some rest. I plan to do so as well. Please be praying for my message. She's definitely down with the sinus, uh, headache. I'm going to tend to her as well too. So thank you sister Lynn for your prayers as well. Uh, we do appreciate that. But that's my time, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you all so much for yours. Y'all know the drill, whatever you do. And I do mean that with all sincerity, whatever you do, do all to the ground of God. God bless. Thank you for sharing this night. God bless you. Good night.