 Hey there, welcome to Liquid Margin's this episode is number 34, can't believe it. Without so many great shows. And it's gotten to the point where I'm starting to forget which ones, which topics we've covered because we've had that many shows so. Now, this one is orientation by annotation hypothesis in first year seminar. Today's guests. Cheryl saw in hopefully I'm pronouncing that correctly. I'm the associate director and associate professor intellectual heritage program at Temple University, Jacqueline Howard administrative assistant professor of technology and women's history to Lane University and Heather Walder assistant teaching anthropology and anthropology, University of Wisconsin lacrosse and then our moderator today, the inimitable Jeremy Dean VP of education at hypothesis, and I am going to stop talking now and turn it over to Jeremy. So, again, thanks for being here. It's going to be a great show. I'm super excited to be here with you all to talk about this topic of social annotation and first year experience. I want to start off general looks like there are a lot of folks in the audience who are teaching in similar programs. But I just want to start off general to sort of get everybody to talk a little bit about what is the first year experience. What is the, what are what our first year seminars what is why are they important. What are the goals, what are the challenges and they just go around them talking about that very general idea of this particular type of course, maybe starting with you Cheryl. Oh my goodness alright so this is going to be awkward because the intellectual heritage program at Temple University isn't a traditional first year experience. We frequently do have sophomores in the courses and sometimes even transfer students with junior status. However, it functions very much like a first year seminar in that it is typically students introductions to the humanities and to the liberal arts. Students coming from all different schools and colleges within Temple University tend to be pretty siloed and they don't oftentimes have the opportunity to participate in a seminar style course where they get to communicate with each other share ideas build knowledge and really learn how to engage deeply with ideas and sometimes difficult texts. Our two courses are called the good life and the common good so students get to not only read works of ancient and modern literature philosophy political philosophy from a diverse and global authors but they get to connect all of those texts and ideas to things that are going around in the world today and to themselves and participate in a lot of self reflection and self efficacy which I think are usually key components of a first year experience course as well. Learning how to be a member of a learning community learning how to challenge one another respectfully learning how to take perspectives into account when thinking about your own position and where you stand. Learning how to make claims and use evidence to support those claims and also hopefully have fun in the process and build community that isn't just focused on intellectual pursuits but maybe on social pursuits as well so it functions in that space but because of agreement associations with community colleges and the university's commitment for students to graduate in four years we're a little bit more flexible when it comes to required first year courses. That was amazing show. Thank you. Yeah, let's let's let's continue in that vein and sort of understand from each of you, the character of your particular first year teaching experience will use first year and quotation marks because maybe, you know, there's some diversity that's great, but there's clearly going to be a theme here with everything that Cheryl said but let's let's hear what it's all about it to lane from Jacqueline. Hi, thanks for having me so at Tulane we have a program called the tides program and this is a first year experience program that pulls instructors from across the entire university. And it really gives us the freedom to develop courses based off our expertise, and the reason that they do it this way is they want to lean wants students to build deep relationships with faculty. And so students can take courses that they're interested in and meet with faculty and have a close experience with them. Another goal of this program is so that students can be introduced in a safe space to college level skills. So we focus on close reading using the library but also using student services, such as counseling services and other services that are available to students. We also have a peer mentor in the course that helps facilitate that. We also have a goal of connecting students to New Orleans with Tulane being a where it's positioned in our community as a privileged mostly white university. We try to create intentional ways to get students involved in the New Orleans community because often they don't leave campus. And so we have field trips and things like that to help get students into the into the community. And it's also about meeting local leaders and having students have a better connection with New Orleans. That's amazing. And I should say that we have a distinguished alumni of Tulane University that's so one of our. My colleagues here Becky George who's, I don't know if Tides was I think Tides was around. Becky's been very interested in connecting with Tides. And I started to be this customer success manager for for Tulane and recently made a visit there. Thanks Jacqueline. So Heather how is the program at University of Wisconsin lacrosse similar different in focus from from Tides and from the intellectual heritage program at Tulane. Sure. Well thank you for having me our first year seminar program is actually very young. We were in the process of developing it in the 2018-19 school year, doing some kind of just preliminary trial courses with a few faculty. And I trained for the program and actually taught my first first year seminar in fall of 2020. What we've been doing over the last few years is helping students adjust to college and utilizing similar content across all first year seminars on campus where we focus on modules like belonging or using library or their campus resources. Finding scholarship money and other kind of common themes. And then each instructor who teaches a first year seminar also includes two credits worth of their own content. So mine is myth busting in archaeology no ancient aliens here. And professors try to choose topics that they think will be discussion sparking and that will interest students to maybe draw them into the major, but also give them a chance to discuss topics that are relevant and relate to current issues. Each first year seminar includes a group project and this gives students practice doing collaborative work, how to set up a Google document but also how to communicate effectively with one another. And the way that that project works across the seminars is really variable we have a lot of freedom in how we organize each of these classes as individual instructors. And overall the goal is to just, I think, like Jacqueline said, give the students a chance to connect with a faculty member in a small class setting. Give them a chance to read deeply to think about a topic that maybe they've never thought about before, and help them get the tools that are going to be necessary for them to be successful on our campus. Awesome. Thanks, Heather. Well, tell us how social annotation has been particularly useful in this, in this specific teaching context. Why social annotation, why hypothesis for the first year seminar or for a first year experience course and I'm going to go in reverse order this time Heather if you don't mind continuing to talk and then we'll go to Jackie and Jacqueline and to Cheryl. So feel free to unmute and has or, or even disagree with somebody else and doesn't have to be super, you know, structured in terms of, I love this is become a conversation, but otherwise social annotation for your first year experience. Well, um, so I designed the course initially as a completely online asynchronous course, because that's the modality that I was teaching in fall of 2020 and spring of 2021. And so I wanted to figure out a way to have students engaging really deeply with the content and so I was familiar with hypothesis, I had heard about it in a digital pedagogy workshop, years ago like in grad school. And I was kind of digging through my toolbox trying to figure out a way to have those deep conversations while using an asynchronous format and that is, I ended up using it that first fall semester and then was able to work with our instructional students and folks to get it integrated in canvas for the next semester, and then continued using it, even when we move back to in person classes, because I really did value the level of conversation, and students also indicated that they liked being able to think before they spoke, so to speak, and came to class more prepared so even though the modalities are completely different and I use it in different ways. I found that the annotations were still improving the level of reading and conversation that the students have, no matter what way we're meeting that week. I imagine that the first year experience, teaching first year experience first year summer would be particularly challenging during the pandemic and in a remote or asynchronous context because it is so much about coming together and being together and working together, and getting that sense of belonging so that must have been challenged super interesting. Let's go back the other way and hear from Jacqueline and Tulane about how social orientation was particularly interesting to you for teaching in the tides program. So I started using social annotations when I was co teaching a higher level course, and it really helped us be able to kind of get rid of the bland reading response I feel like discussion forums and those things are starting to become kind of cookie cutter and so we were in pandemic mode, and we were looking for a tool that would be more interactive in real time. And then after we did some trial and error era and this is with my colleague Dr. Claire Daniel, we created up some assignments over that and that I was able then to apply to my first year experience course. And so what we do what this assignment does is, it replaces the reading response so students do a deep reading before they come to class to discuss the reading. And what it helped with the first year experience is our students were experiencing a high level of disengagement during the pandemic and that's only gotten worse as the as semesters have. And so this was a way for us when students stop talking to be able to go back to the social annotations and spark new conversation from what they've already started. So it was a nice foundation point that not only helped them prepare for that hard discussion, but then also helped me sustain the discussion later on when things were getting tough in the classroom. That's great. Cheryl. Wow so very similar motivations for using social annotation I came to hypothesis as a dinosaur through rap genius and so yeah. Yes, so I forgot about our history there. Yeah, see now it all comes back to you so when, when rap genius created lit genius and Jeremy was kind of a spearheaded spearheaded that I had students annotate the doubt a chain. It was a text that was very difficult to to parse even though it might seem easy to read and I see that I have some colleagues from our program on here today so and many of them are much better suited to talk about that text and teaching it I found that students. I know that both of you talked about belonging and the importance in the freshman seminar of feelings though you belong and our students at Temple frequently feel as though they don't have the tools or the capacity to have original text that are are unusual unusual for them or challenging and you know you always have those students who might raise their hand and say I know this is a stupid question but or they might in response to a question that you or a fellow say off this is a stretch but but I found that when when annotating in a social setting where students can see one another engaging with ideas. It helps students very quickly recognize that they can do hard things or that you know their question is a question that was shared widely by everybody else in the class. Not only does this help to increase engagement, but it allows students to have some sense of authority or self worth when it comes to directly engaging with content what really whether it's, you know, a two pack song or, you know, the chapter of the doubt etching or even, you know, an article from vice magazine so I find that the power of collective annotation is, you know, magnifies engagement tenfold, but also really is a tool that helps with this piece about belonging. Cheryl I want to continue and maybe kind of start to open this up into more of a conversation in terms of that idea of sounds like, you know, making students feel like they belong making students more comfortable, you know, come into college it's a new experience right new and difficult reading new and difficult expectations. And I wonder if we could just sort of riff on that idea of the various aspects of the first year experience that are trying to sort of prepare the student for the intellectual academic activities that are that are coming and how social annotation helps with that. That was too vague but can you riff on that Cheryl. Yeah, I mean I was thinking about a sample assignment that I might be able to share with folks and this is not sexy at all but I do have students annotate the syllabus especially as Heather and Jacqueline were talking about in this kind of post ish pandemic world and in so what you know so many students being shunted into online learning unwillingly and I'm a an online educator I love teaching online especially asynchronously online pre pandemic I'm not sure how you feel about it anymore but I don't really know how to be students in in the college setting. A lot of times high school, especially public high schools don't provide syllabi for their students so they don't know how to read it and that document can be pretty daunting especially as institutions require us to put more and more policies and resources and statements in our syllabi all of which are very, very good and necessary but students will just skim over it and, you know, maybe look into looking at what do I have to do for tomorrow's class. So annotating the syllabus is a great way for students to share some of what they're worried about or curious about in the course and one of the most powerful things that I did kind of by mistake, I asked students to identify one of the five learning objectives or goals for the course that felt meaningful for them, and to talk a little bit about why, and what what they hoped they would achieve and accomplish and then at the end of the semester I had them go back to those annotations and revisit the questions that they had and, you know, it was a little bit scary for me, because I wasn't sure what would happen. And, you know, they might say I still have those questions or know this goal was never met but it was really exciting to see the self reflection and the ownership that they took just through annotating the syllabus. I love that. I mean, I think it's one of the, I don't particularly pay attention to this channel on Twitter, but there's always the like seasonal complaints of like, oh, the student came to my office hours and asked me this thing and it was on the syllabus. It's like, so, you know, read the syllabus but not just, you know, know the syllabus there and read it but really dive into it think about the expectations of the course. And then that's part of, you know, I just love the idea of ownership that you talked about. And I think that's such a big part of kind of becoming a college student is starting to own, you know, the work and then as you obviously, you know, move to more advanced levels to really become a scholar yourself. So I love that. I tell you that one, you know, I know I'm not, you know, a neurologist or neuropsychologist and I'm really interested to find out what is going on with our brains with all this online screen time and while I'm a huge advocate of access to texts and I think it's fantastic that we have electronic texts. It can be I think also really difficult for students for all sorts of reasons for me to to just be staring at a screen for so long and to not be able to like manipulate it and so the same is true with syllabi, especially moving to online, you know, being able to write and to note and to ask a question to get a reply to, you know, add a funny meme to express your confusion you know these are always to kind of make these texts come alive in a very unique fashion and I think might be the key to helping students in an online setting but even in a face to face course where they're using electronic texts allow them to live and breathe, you know, to gather reader and and writer or you know text and audience. Great. So the students are moving to to New Orleans. They arrive on campus for school at Tulane. So does social annotation help orient them to what's going to be expected of them in the next four years or continue with the however you want from that Jacqueline. Yeah, I think that it really helps them be able to understand what's expected of them when when a professor assigns reading, and what it means to be prepared for coming to class for discussion or even for lecture. You know, he's mostly discussion in my classes and so it really helps get away from this mindset that you're going to be quizzed over information, you know that there's a right answer and a wrong answer. And so it really helps them build an interpretation and nuance in while they're doing the readings. But also it helps them incorporate other readings together so I have this exercise where every two or three readings we go back and we look at the readings that we've annotated and we bring out common themes. And then we will incorporate those into annotation so we're always revisiting our annotations and our assignments and adding to them as a semester goes, goes on, and that seems to help us draw connections across multiple readings so it's not just every day is a different and by itself that we're drawing larger connections. I don't know if you have that assignment in a way that you'd be willing to share, but that idea of revisiting annotations. If you have some, some kind of prompt that you use for that it's a, it's a great idea. So I'd love to share with the community. I don't have it with me right now but I'm happy to share it. Awesome. And also give us feedback about the ways that we could develop a tool to better facilitate that kind of revisiting and harvesting of, you know, the gems or the ideas. Definitely my ultimate vision is that this is a way that, you know, your notes, your conversations moving a direction of a theme or topic that then can be leveraged in into maybe a final essay or some others, some other project for a course and the more that you can do to sort of tee the student up to have done that work and say well I've got this work I've got this body of work that I can now use again that's sort of one of those, those basic skills of college to when you get the paper assignment like oh wow I should have been doing the reading I should have been taking notes I should have been having some topic around my notes because now I'm being asked to to go back and do all this stuff but with hypothesis. You've done that work. Yeah, it's there and so you can revisit it it's not just, you know, a graded assignment it's something that is a tool. Yeah, an indispensable when I mean that in a sense of like you're not kind of doing something like a quiz I love your theme about the sort of disposable things like discussion forms cookie cutter and quizzes kind of disposable those aren't really not going to use that. It's something that's in disposable sort of sustainable because you're going to hopefully continue to use it maybe the tool itself and another course of Tulane. Heather your thoughts on how social inclusion helps orient students to the college experience. Well, I do a really similar thing it's the idea that when we annotate, we can read a text and get something out of it and then having the students return to it is one of the things that I've played around with doing both in class and then outside of class. In my course students have reflections that they put together about once a month for the course of the four month semester, and they're asked to think about the case studies that they've read about. And you can actually see them going back to the readings because hypothesis will show in Canvas that they've opened it again. And it doesn't show me what they've done and that's fine but it does show that they're going back they're looking up what they said or what others said, and hopefully drawing on those texts pulling out details to then incorporate into their own comparison and contrast reflections or other reflections on the texts, but also on the concepts but I actually do a reading quiz I'm a I, I do have some like concrete questions that I like them to get out like teaching them to read to find a detail what's the evidence that ancient Egyptians built the pyramids during the old kingdom, what are the tools and the artifacts that are found. And so by having them search for those answers and then find them highlight them I we practice like when you find an answer to a quiz question highlight it pointed out, and they can take the quiz, you know, a couple of times I think. And then they have all of this knowledge built up in the annotations and the answers to the quiz, so that when they're ready to write their reflection, as you said it's all there. So we're building something together as we go through these case studies together. That's great. I want to, there's been a rich conversation in the chat that I haven't been able to focus on because we've been because I've been engaged with you guys. But I wanted to make sure I gave every each of you a chance to sort of talk about some aspect of hypothesis social annotation, the first year experience course that you teach that maybe I haven't been able to elicit in the questions and conversation. So this time I'm just going to switch it up and start with you Jacqueline see like, so anything you were thinking about in preparation for this, but you were thinking this is one aspect of my experience that I'd like to share with this community. Sure. And so I'm an editor of a guide called the feminist pedagogy for teaching online guide and I'll put that in the chat. But this guide is really the basis of my pedagogy whether it's in an online classroom or not and this is an intersectional feminist framework. And it really wants some of the key tenants is this idea that knowledge is constructed. And so I feel like the social annotation tool really helps to show that that that that tenant is a big part of learning. And it also encourages cooperative learning and so with students engaging together. But also treating students as a genetic co educators, their voices as important as mine in the classroom and I hope that by providing multiple ways for them to share their voices, whether it's through that social annotation tool or that gives them the confidence to talk in class, that we are, you know, sustaining that model, and it also creates self care and boundaries so what maybe the student doesn't want to talk in class they feel more comfortable on the social annotation tool. And something I struggle with to is sometimes students aren't comfortable with the social annotation tool and so, you know, it's not a perfect philosophy but it is something that, you know, I'm constantly striving and thinking about is how, how do, how do you leverage the technology tools in a way that supports pedagogy and what I believe in. I feel like there's an article here for social annotation and this feminist pedagogy that could come from you at some point let's know if we can we can help in any way certainly love to have you blog about it. One of the interesting things that we said Jacqueline is, you know, those some of those concepts where you can introduce them to students. Philosophically they may they may resonate right but like, what does it look like in practice right it's hard to like build an outside of social annotation like how do you make your classroom open to that you know more horizontal and and really show that knowledge is constructed not just read some theorist around and it's interesting I think that social annotation as a tool can help sort of see it in action. It's okay to it's okay to read old things right it's okay to read things that are outdated, and I think the social annotation tool helps with fat. Yeah, and I just also love the idea that like you're part of this, you know, like you're writing on the text you're not just reading, you're not just being told what other people thought in history but you're contributing to that conversation. Heather let's go to you next anything that you were sort of thinking and as you prepared for today that you want to share before we open it up to conversation questions. One of the things that I really like about hypothesis is we've touched on this a little is the idea that when we're dealing with one of these challenging texts that it gives students a way to participate in a way that feels comfortable. An example in my class is we talk about an article called why the whiteness of archaeology is a problem because my discipline is historically very colonial and very western and it's scientific perspectives and way of thinking. And even ideas like aliens built the Egyptian pyramids have an undertone of racism, as they imply that indigenous peoples around the world were unable to create these great accomplishments on their own. And that's kind of a big idea for students to tackle and we are dealing with it throughout the entire semester. And when they read the article on whiteness and its rule and archaeology, it gives students a way to have a much better conversation than we could have just by talking in the classroom, because they, they want to choose their words very carefully in dealing with the topic is as challenging as discussing race and racism. So I really, really value the way that they prepare for difficult discussions by annotating in advance. And do any of you see that I think a few of you mentioned this. I mean that play out so like I might customize myself to sharing my ideas with others via the asynchronous you know annotation and the time I have there but then do you see that start to transfer into other areas where students gain confidence and are able to to be more confident sharing, you know, in other contexts their own ideas I see lots of head nodding. So I'll just share that the students sometimes just will say like as I said in my annotation and then blah, and that's fine, because then they're saying that this idea was so important that they wanted to share it, both in text, and then we're comfortable sharing it verbally with the large group or sometimes in their small groups you'll hear that too. So and that's, that's great because then I feel that they're prepared to have that difficult conversation. All right, so we're going to just hear from you about anything you want to share before we open it up for questions. Well, I'll just I'll just sort of stay on that train. You know we have a lot of international students we a lot we have a lot of first generation college students we have a lot of non traditional age students we have a lot of students who have disrupted their education and come back. And, and social annotation has empowered these students in a variety of ways that allows their voice to be heard inside of the classroom, maybe through this kind of sideways path and not only have students commented that by annotating and rehearsing and, and then seeing their peers, replying and responding to their ideas not only does it bolster the confidence to, you know, speak in this class but it has had a ripple effect in their other classes as well. And they frequently say you know we wish we were able to use hypothesis in our other courses. You know, my pedagogy aligns really strongly with with both Heather and Jacqueline's in that this decentering of the text of the instructor. You know, is is a powerful tool and one of the things that I think is really kind of interesting and again I would love to study it but I don't have the background to do that is I think that something really powerful happens when a student doesn't necessarily hear their voice in class but but sees their ideas in print alongside the text of these published authors if that's what you're annotating, and it creates a kind of leveling or something that allows students to be. And I think I can't remember. Heather if it was you or Jacqueline who said this but sort of on the same journey, just maybe a little bit, you know, just got started but but on the same journey as Marks or on the same journey as you know, on the same and you know that it liberates us from this kind of toxic belief that in order and maybe I just reproduce that by saying you know in order to have anything to say you have to already know, you know, and then that really does diminish what's possible in terms of of creative problem solving contributing to the you know world of ideas, working on a very specific project that kind of thing. And the last thing I'll say is that you know and in the course this the courses that I teach a lot of collaboration happens, especially from the midpoint toward the end of the semester. And so, practicing these kinds of collaborations in a way that is a little bit less threatening where students have the time to think on their own to select, you know, what in the text compels them, or to ask for help or pose a question to individual in class or to me does give them that low stakes rehearsing of skills that are so important, you know, as they move out of the college environment and work with folks, you know, in a collaborative nature so it's some, you know powerful in that way as well. That's amazing. Thank you so much. Well, I want, we've got about seven minutes left and there's been a lot of conversation in the chat. And I just want to give folks in the audience a chance to think you can raise your hand or something like that. Yes, there's a raise a hand button, or maybe some of my colleagues at hypothesis saw a particular rich question that they'd like to surface. But at this point I'd like to open it up to to the audience to see what else they're interested in hearing about from our panelists. So Jeremy there are some questions. I've been multitasking here so haven't been able to completely focus on what's been said in the show. I hate when that happens but it does happen sometimes so if these have already been answered, we can maybe answer them more falsely or move on to the next ones. Yes, I have a question has asked, are any of you using hypothesis and small groups. And if so how does that differ from whole class discussions. Yes, I. So, sometimes what I'll do is I'll actually put students and teams ahead of time and have them working on different type of types of annotations so one might be working on making connections to things going on in the world today one team might be researching key terms or ideas and providing visual or or verbal embellishment or enrichment for those one team might be working on connections connecting to other texts that we've read other students annotations in those texts. And then they'll do that prior to meeting in class if it's a face to face and per, you know, synchronous session. They'll scramble those groups in class so that there's a sort of expert from each group who has a sense of what their team was working on and then they try to connect those ideas all together and, you know, build a claim about the taxes. That's one way. That's another assignment Cheryl that if you're willing to share I bet our folks will be very interested in. When you do that, I imagine you're not actually using like the group functionality and canvas and hypothesis because you want to see each other's annotations in that context. Yeah, do you have them use tags for that so it's absolutely. Yeah, so they have, you know, a tag for Group A Group B Group C or or if the group has like a basic question then I'll have them post that question as the tag. I've been experimenting a lot with tags lately, actually. Cool. Let's talk about that there's, I want, we want to build out functionality there to kind of go back and visit those different, you know, tags and themes. Others small group work or whether it's private groups small groups or, or using tags for groups like like Cheryl. These are small courses I imagine already so I have tried having them annotate within their small discussion group so that they can see who they're, they already know who they would be talking to they've met these people in class. And I often will then put the groups on the big screen in the classroom and kind of point out the best ideas or like the most, most thought provoking are the ones that generated a lot of discussion from the small groups but I found that they like to know that I'm going to do that in advance so that what they did share in the small group then doesn't become public to the large group. So it's sort of a balance. I really like the idea of giving the groups different tasks. I do similar things where you can ask. I have a question in the chat how much and what kind of guidance do you provide students as to the types of comments and questions they can make and I give suggestions like point out key terms or make a connection to the news, but I've never given that as explicitly. So that might be one way to do it without having to deal with the teeny tiny groups and all of the extra work that can sometimes lead to. May I may I just jump in because I want to say that Cheryl has a hard stop at 945 or 1245 where she is. So, let me just, it's two minutes of so I just want to say Cheryl. Thank you so much for joining us today. And so, sorry, you have to drop off and safe travels. And I am absolutely happy I'll put my email in the chat anyone can ping me anytime for sample. You know prompts and follow up but there I know there's a really rich and interesting conversation going in the chat around accessibility and screen readers and I'm. I have a lot to say and think about that too so I'm happy to continue that conversation with folks who are working in the chat there as well on that topic and thank you Heather and Jacqueline. Bye Cheryl thanks. Jacqueline did you want to add anything about this the group question. And we, we just do some primary source analysis where I'll put up three different primary sources and then I assign different groups to do different but it's not as robust with tagging which I would love to learn more about so this is a great conversation. But I would love, we have this in kind of dispersed form I'd love to bring together into a kind of teacher resource archive, the different ways that instructors prompt students in different contexts with annotations obviously perhaps maybe at a graduate school level, you know you don't necessarily need to tell students like how to annotate and give them an academic article and they're going to know maybe what to do that's that's why they're in grad school, but there's a lot of steps along the way to get into that and what you might expect from a first year experience course or first year seminar new students at the college level like what are you looking for, what activities are you performing as you read and really calling those out, whether it's in a loose prompt that says these are five things you could do, you know as you annotate just to help them think about what they're doing or you say I want to do I want you to do one of these or one each of these three things you know make a connection to the news make a connection to another text to find a term somehow, whatever it is. I think that stuff is, it can be a key part of you know, structuring annotation for a first year seminar so you're teaching students to read or guiding them to read at the college level. For any any maybe we'll just take five more minutes here to close out. Any other questions that we want to, we do we have a handful more. Um, Roberto kill Kenny, I just want to say, I love your name, Kenny, but a great last name. Has anyone had experience with a visually impaired student using hypothesis. And I know the document needs to be accessible what but what is the annotation part like thanks. Thank you, Roberta. I have not had that experience yet. And so I would just, I think it would work with hypothesis from that time comes with our web. There's been a lot of conversation and links shared in the chat and we have an internal accessibility advocate and and partners to at other schools that have vetted the tool for accessibility help design accommodation plans and things like that. So, I'm sure we could put you in touch with other instructors in schools that have worked with students using various screen readers for example to to access hypothesis to create annotations and things like that. Jeremy I was going to jump in. There was a question for panelists from Brett Roscoe in the chat about how much and what kind of guidance he provides students as to the types of comments questions that they can make on their readings. I think I'd be okay hearing to about like what sort of guidance you're giving students just as they're getting comfortable within a new tool and having those conversations and building that community with annotation, adding my component to that as well. I'm going to add my component to the question too so what kind of guidance do you provide for the tool for their types of annotations and one question I have is, does that change over the course of a semester, because I've seen in some courses you know, there'll be sort of one way that we're going to annotate throughout these are the types of things we're looking for and other times like for this assignment. It's going to be different and early on it might be different from a sort of more summative annotation assignment but it's great great suite of questions there so however you guys want to approach it maybe start with Heather. Sure. I have sort of like three or four kind of discussion questions or guiding questions that go along with each reading. And I post those in the sort of just the first page note at the top of the page but then I'll also kind of go through in some readings and ask them, you know, do you have experience with this or have you heard about this before right on the text so I'll actually put annotations in myself before it's open to the students so that they have something to to respond to and they don't have to answer those. They can do something completely different they can ask their own question or point out a definition or something interesting or surprising but I found it helps if I ask a few questions. Then they start asking those same kinds of questions later on and I don't need to do it as much as the semester goes on. So for for my courses. We. Oh goodness I just lost my train of thought I'm so sorry. So what do I, how do I prepare them. I provide a little prompt at the, for every single discussion that is the same and it's very, it's more like a free writing exercise to tell them that they need to write eight to 12 robust sentences. And then I give them suggestions about what that might look like. And I do say throughout because a lot of times students will use this to only read half the article. And so a lot there are a lot of annotations in the front of the article and not so much towards the end and so you can kind of get a glimpse of what students are reading. One of the things I asked them to do is find the research question, find the authors argument find the methods look at the, look at the citations and ask questions so those are kind of the things that I guide them through the reading. Cool. And there's one more question that for any surface for me that will will put out there and then wrap things up. For any can tell me who this is from, but it's I often hear people have had students pre read annotate text before discussing the classes anyone had students go back and revise update their most useful annotations after the fact, potentially as expansion into papers or other writing this was hinted at, but maybe we can end by talking about. Okay, you've annotated. What next, what do you do with those annotations, do you guys have, I know one of you mentioned I think, go having since go back and reflect on their attention might have been you Heather but maybe we can just sort of end by talking a little bit more about what do we do with all these annotations. And do you have any structured ways that you're having students do that. Let's start with you Jacqueline. This is an entry and exit ticket system so the entry ticket is the annotations that they do and the exit ticket is a reflection where they go back in and they can add to their annotation or they can add new tenant annotations they can reply. And so it just kind of brings that discussion to an end and then I can use those annotations as a way to figure out if I need to address other themes for the next reading or the next discussion. So, for me there, it's a teaching tool, as well as for them a reading tool. Can I just ask you to elaborate a little bit on that Jacqueline so I find your class I gotta compose an annotation to come to class then we have a discussion. And then how does the exit ticket work. The exit ticket works, and this is something I learned from note cards right they use to have note cards where you do your entry to get in your exit ticket. I'll maybe give them a prompt with a discussion question where they go back in and they add that to the annotation, or they can go in and revise their annotation or they can reply to somebody. So it's just kind of to get a little deeper into closing that loop from pre reading to the. Yeah, and are they doing that in class actually with hypothesis or is it something they do sort of as a second homework assignment. And then at paper, you know, kind of at the end in the last five minutes and we don't always get to it but we do it probably half, half of the court, half of the classes. And are they actually going in with hypothesis. Very interesting. Okay, that is super cool. Heather. The reflection that I mentioned is much more of like a one page written, you know, a couple of paragraphs, which is again part of our first year seminar is developing just those first person writing skills which they've been maybe taught in high school that you're going to be able to use I and your writing ever, ever. And then I asked them to give an individual reflection and they, they kind of start to struggle with that so I haven't had them go back and actually provides their annotations in the process of doing that reflection I wonder if it could even take the place of such a reflection paper I'm not sure if that would fit within our parameters of kind of how our first year seminar program works but I think it's good to kind of push those boundaries and say why does it have to be in a paper. Maybe could we make the reflection simply a return to the work that's already been done. So, yeah, annotation as, as formative and summative assessment or project, love it. Well, I know it's midday Friday for some folks and we're rounding the corner towards the weekend here. I'm not exactly active for any to close this out, but I really enjoyed this conversation and this is a really important conversation and look forward to continuing to have talked to you guys and collaborate around social annotation for share experience and beyond. Okay, thank you Jeremy. Thanks for our wonderful guests today. And you're taking the time to be on the good margins with us, Heather and Jacqueline. And shout out to Chris Aldrich for that last question. Chris, big fan of the show, almost always with us on liquid margins so we really appreciate you. And yeah, I just wanted to say have a wonderful rest of your June we'll probably see you again in July with the next liquid margins and once again, keep annotating.