 Podcast was roundtable round 86 making an mp3. I feel like there should be some very white playing Yeah, baby, come on All right, well, let's make an mp3 you guys. Oh, so disturbing Let's meet the let's just start off and meet the round table No one knew here today very weird round I invited a lot of you who are probably listening to this right now, but no one was available We're even doing this on a different day, but hey, that's the nature of live But we have our ever co-host extraordinaire Dave welcome back Ray thanks for having me. I'm Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting and Yeah, sometimes this is one of those where I think it's because it's Friday the 13th when we as we record this So it's trying to do yesterday. I'm gonna put it off till Friday the 13th. So I'm hoping for that lucky 13 And our Daniel J. Lewis for the day Mike Dell welcome back. I've got too much hair and a hat on but Mike Dell from the Podcast help desk Yeah, I did among others Yes, it's which podcast do you want to talk about? All right. Well today we are talking about an mp3 really it's kind of everything mp3 and the reason I bring this up on the Roundtable the sounds more like a podcaster studio School of podcasting podcast help desk. We all three of us have podcast about podcasting It sounds like something you would approach there and you would so why have it on a roundtable where we try to discuss the issues that Podcast producers face on a daily base basis. Well, every producer has a different way of making an mp3 file So that's why I thought it would be interesting Wish we had more voices, but if you are watching this podcasters roundtable calm slash guest or you're listening in the archive Sign up there. Let us know what else you'd like to talk about and bring it will bring you on to a round but also put in the comments or hit the like button or submit a Submit an email ray at podcast around table calm Let us know how you do your mp3 file because everyone does this different. There are no standards There are things that maybe should be standard, but they're not so let's find out how everyone does I bet even the three of us who all teach podcasters have different way of doing it. So You know before we make the mp3 We have to record the audio that's going to be said mp3 Right, so I mean if just taking this show right now as an example We're doing this live video. It's Google Hangouts on air and some people you could record like this And you could rip the audio out and what you're going to get is Compressed more compressed file than you're hearing right now if you're if you're listening live The audio is a bit better right now or especially what I'm hearing and receiving from from the guys In fact, it's better than from what here's what I understand. I'm reviewing all my old episodes so I just heard this one but There was a guy who did a really deep dive on Google Hangouts on air He was a musician you want to know what's the bit rate and what quality are you getting out of this out of this system? And it sounds like even the audio if you ripped it out of a archived YouTube file Which is what you get when you're done with a hangout on air. That's 96 kilobits per second. That's great That's a great rate bit rate So if you have to do that to create your podcast I have no problems doing that and it works in an emergency situation Here but I do a unique thing where I capture the audio in real time. So it's better than 96 kilobytes per second I have I have it on studio mode, which also gives you a little bit better audio So it's above that and the audio sounds great. It works really well for the audio only version of this show So I capture that I'm obviously doing that I'm actually doing this microphone that I'm on is going into its own channel into a Tascam DR-60D It's just a audio recorder and then everybody else in the hangout They're coming in obviously through the computer into their into a mixed channel and that's generally good because we have Podcasters on here. You guys know how to use microphones. You generally have good microphones and good mic techniques So the audio always sounds fantastic and I record that in wave. I think I do 44 1 Right 41 44 1 the kill hurts all these khe's and yeah killer and you name 41 44.1 kilohertz wave 16 bit now there is a debate about 24 bit We want to go into that just do any of you record at 24 bit I don't like I record in whatever audacity does standard So I'm thinking it's 16, but it might be 24 And I guess that also would depend on how the audio is getting into audacity because if your headset Mike that you have on right now if it didn't send 24 bit and it's 80 converter I don't think you would get that so, you know like a scarlet Focusrite 2i4 that I have right here that will send 24 bit audio Into like audacity or auditions. Yeah, I just brought up a audition here and And it I'm recording at 32 bit Yeah, and so that's why I'm curious though because you might not be you know If the if the 80 converter in the headset doesn't send that bit I'm not Analog all the way through this headset is the broadcast headset with an XLR into the mixer So if the mixer sends 24 bit some at some point it's converted to bits and yeah, yeah I think I have this directly into the into the audio in jack on the Mac So whatever the Mac does to it, right? No, and it would just be the um, yeah So anyways that goes beyond my pay grade It gets geekier than I even I don't worry about the bit depth so much because once you make it into an mp3 It that pretty much negates that as far as most things accept that and here's something I'm gonna test out in the near future because I always do 16 But the theory is some people will say it's is a big if you go in the forums you will get lost and in forum You'll go down the rabbit hole, but 24 bit is supposed to give you a much bigger dynamic range This means you can record at a much lower level. So, you know, I'm always aiming for that minus 12 Neighborhood when I'm recording I can record like minus 18 minus 20 and then because it's that 24 bit There's a lot more more room between the noise floor and my level That I could bring it up in post-production, which you need to do will definitely talk about that you always have to bring up every file pretty much and You would not bring up the noise floor you would have more separation between the noise floor at 24 bit Then you would at 16 bits. So that's debatable. I mean if you're in the chat Patrick I see you there. Let us know what you do You know, this is a theory. It's something I'm definitely gonna test, but I don't do it yet and If you have good levels if you do your gain staging right, you don't have to worry about I Know when I was asking Daniel About it one time about different bits and he said it's a lot like it is on Digital cameras different, you know or photos the more bits you had more colors He goes except instead of more colors you're getting more sound, right? And I know it might be right. I mean at some stage it doesn't matter So when we get to that mp3 stage But recording it it may make a difference and it all depends on the gear you have and how you record and vice-versus Yeah, in my case if I'm you know, I've got it set to 32, but my You know the the sound card for lack of a better term only does 16 Well, so what you know, it just it doesn't hurt anything to set it higher But it probably doesn't help a lot and that's another thing I I don't record in software almost ever I do always do recorders and that's just for me. It's I just prefer it. It's not, you know I this is my I have this into the second output on my yeah on my mixer and when you know I hit record in two places Yeah, but it's good if nothing, you know if nothing goes wrong. I use the audits audits or audition recording Yeah, and that's the case here. I mean and really Google Hangouts at this point is my backup I'm going in the recorder, but if we lost it and I have had issues I've I've not hit record on the recorder So I mean we talk about this all the time people say oh don't go into software it can crash Well, guess what you could also not hit record if your battery could die your SD card can fail Like the same amount of things that can happen to software can happen a hardware So neither one is any kind of foolproof proof method. That's why having two recording Methods at the same time is is best Yeah, the whole the whole path in podcasting is all software and there can be glitches in any system you're on so You know the recorder and you know with me I record both of it's something super important I record an audition and I also record into the recorder But if it's something that you know if I'm just gonna flip on the mic and you know Complain for half, you know for 15 minutes or something. Okay, if I lose that I can start over, right, you know, yeah Well, if you don't care enough to back it up, we don't want to listen Well, you know, but if I'm interviewing somebody that you know, I definitely don't want to have to do that again You know, then it's good to have the second Recording interviews, it's especially important because you don't want to have to ask people. We've probably all had to ask people Yeah, man. Sorry lost that one. Can you do it again? Which is just ridiculous is enough that they gave you their time in the first place So yeah, we try to avoid that but after that We bring it in however you get it into your computer may already be there if you're in software Bring it into our computer and then everyone else really it's kind of like we're at a party and then we also go different ways We went to a party recorded stuff and we all went our different ways and and did whatever we wanted with our favorites So everyone's gonna end up with a different mp3 file Dave, what's your first step after recording? Your podcast editing when it comes to yeah when it comes to the audio. Yeah, I basically I For the school of podcasting I record onto a recorder I bring it in and I use Sony soundforge for one thing only and that's for editing out Ums in your nose and things that don't fit And I do that because you can do this in audacity too, but I can I can listen and still Kind of understand what's going on at one point seven eight speed So it's not quite double speed, but I can hear what's going through and I'm just looking for the low-hanging fruit I know especially on my ask the podcast coach show. I Was laughing this last week I was really tired when I did that show and I was all over the place just talking about stuff That didn't make any sense. I was just slicing things left and right where I would go on a tangent So that's my next step is I'm not worried about volume levels yet because if I'm gonna do something like alphonic It's gonna take longer if I run the whole file through alphonic I might as well cut out what I don't need so now the file is small and I'm doing all that as a wave file I'm keeping it as a wave and then once all the editing is done If I'm gonna need any kind of post-processing like an alphonic or something like that I might as well do it after I do the edit as gonna say, what's your first step that affects the actual audio? Well, normally I don't need to run it through audacity audition or yeah, you know the thing I'm trying to say Yeah, I'll chronic That's a trend in audio editing apparently. Yeah Usually I don't have to run it through alphonic So usually from there. It's it's right into Audition and what do you do you don't EQ your audio compress it? Nothing. No, are you doing that via hardware? I'm doing it via hardware. I've got the apex 230 all important piece Yeah, I got the the apex 230 that's adding the big bottom and the upper end and Such a part was like a little big last time The diet show you do is not working. That's it. And so yeah, so I got a lot of that going into The actual file and then you're doing processing As you're recording your processing and at that point you're baking it in so I mean if you screw it up Yeah, it's gonna be exactly but you do that you do that to save time I do a little bit. Yeah, it mainly it's the noise gate that I use on this thing I when I first got it like every new kid with a toy I went crazy with it and people are like, I don't know what you did to your sound but you need to back it off a bit because I had a way too much bass and So it took a little tweaking to get it right And so it's just one of those where You know, just a little will do a lot So yeah, so I'm just doing a little bit there because I actually do later Run it back through in audition I run it through the multi band compressor and I don't know that I've tweaked that setting I think it's just the standard broadcaster and the reason I do that is I listen to it before and I listen to it After and I go, you know, I like it with it on and so that's Yeah, I mean, they often say in audio engineering if it sounds good It is good and that's dangerous because not everyone has an ear to hear the right thing But in general if it sounds good, it is good. You know people really worry about How exactly do I put that setting and it's gonna be different for everyone and yeah, I mean the best, you know The best thing you can do is to is to listen. That's your number one. Yeah, and I usually do a Like I will go in and turn on that feature and then I will hit the bypass to kind of do a like Better before better after because in some cases it really doesn't need a whole lot on it and you're just you know You can I don't know if it's true. I'd like to test this. I think you could spoil a cake with too much icing I don't know. I want to test that theory But I think you can do the same thing in audio cream cheese icing I don't think you just had a birthday and a cake that had just Let me put it this way. I don't like carrots and I don't even like cake But there's this carrot cake and it was the only thing I requested for my birthday How's that possible? It's that good. All right. Let's not derail too much Mike What is the what is the first thing you do to your audio after you've recorded it that actually affects the audio? I do similar to what Dave does. I have a compressor limiter gate I mainly use the gate I do just a slight bit of compression when I record But it's not, you know, I'd Turning it on and off, you know, if I bypass it, I can hardly tell the difference So I'm not doing a lot there and then I bring it into audition or actually it's recorded in audition in this case And I do a multi band compression, but I don't do very much of there either Just just a little bit, you know, kind of level everything out But I try to get all my levels right to begin with so I don't I don't have to do a lot Of editing as far as the levels or anything like that if I'm doing enough an interview That's a little different But a lot of times I'll record in segments. So I'll have, you know, 30 files going, you know Or whatever 10 or however many it takes and then I go into multitrack and glue it all together there and Then you in the multitrack you can you can put effects on each of the channels. This is an odd audition she's all these gaps, but Anyway, I'll glue it all together in that and Really don't do a whole lot with it But I do run it through a phonic and everything stays in wave until the final step In fact, you know that the a phonic online Version, you know, people a lot of people do the MP3 and we're talking about MP3s today That is the lame encoder that you get back Regardless, you know, if you're doing an MP3 in even if you did it in front offer It'll come back lame encoded. So that's that's why I create. I mean I create my MP3s in iTunes I always have it just been the easiest for me It's where I do ID3 tags as well, which we'll talk about but there was a really good thread that Yorg from a phonic Actually, he's very adamant that You cannot tell the difference between a in front offer and his at least the lame that they're using He doesn't think that there's a quality loss. So I don't I don't know if it's been improved or whatever I know a phonic does great job. And we haven't really mentioned what a phonic is So if none of you listening or watching have no of a phonic, it's basically drag and drop audio processing and Also some magic. I mean there is if you if you use the level later, it's a souped-up version of level later It's iteration on that and it just does so much I've had it do things the audio that I thought was impossible and it's not every time but most of the time and when we get to Loudness normalization, which is something I do The phonic is it's drag and drop easy It'll do it for you a process that is in theory hard to grasp at first something You probably should be doing I think you certainly should be doing it It's one of those standards that I think should exist and may in the future, but a phonic makes it super easy It'll remove some noise. It'll do some compression It'll take out some it can do all kinds of stuff. I mean it like They have two different versions of a multi-track which will if you're working with multi-track files I won't get into that but basically what we're saying we're dragging into a phonic It's doing some post-processing For us and it's the best way that I think most people can make their final So to put that polish on their final file and it'll do if you can afford it The desktop version is much better. There's no reason not to afford it because here's the thing You can pay by month every month forever or you can buy the desktop version one time One time. I mean it's it feels like you're paying a little bit Just get the desktop version and you don't have to deal with being online drag and drop. It's great I use the desktop version Georg actually gave me a license because we did a whole I did a bunch of testing for him and I talk about all the time, but it's because I absolutely love it and One of the key things it does and this is what the levelator did Which is leveling out your file when you have that huge difference between A really low part where you're talking low and a really high part where you're talking loud It'll do that. You could do that manually in your in your editor. It's just ridiculous It'll take you forever if you go through the whole file. This will It does a fairly it does a good job. It does a good job at doing that So that's the only thing it that's one of the main things I think that it does That would save you massive amounts of time anyone can do compression eq But the leveling if you had to do that manually And you mean obviously like Mike you mentioned that you want to record it, right? That's the key to all this you want a good resulting mp3 file? Record it, right? That is absolutely the key, but aphonic is really great for that Yeah, I know I'll go ahead Dave For me when I do use it It's usually because I've done an interview and as much as I try to get the levels right when I'm recording an interview Yeah, and people get excited or whatever, but yeah, and so I always run Again, I'll go through and I'll edit out anything I don't want and then I'll mix it down to a a mono file through aphonic And I'm with him I want to do I need to go back and do a test because another piece of software I've been using Is hindenburg journalist And I was checking something. I like, you know, I've never looked into this and when I went to their about page It says that they use vst plugin technology and then the second thing that's in it You guessed it mp3 lame encoder lame dot source forge net And I think the stuff that comes out of the software that I've never Heard any kind of weird kind of that weird underwatery kind of You know that that happens and I've been putting things out at 64 mono So I'm gonna have to do some testing when we get done here That's that's a little discovery that I just Uncover sounds good. It is good Dave. Yeah, that's it. I think I think lame has You know up their game a bit because I remember back, you know years and years ago The lame encoder the lower you went in bit rate the worse it sounded Yeah, you know compared to fraunhofer there was a definite difference at 64 mono or 128 stereo But uh, and then the same the uh lame does Was that uh Variable bit rate way better than fraunhofer. That is one thing they're they excel at you don't want to use variable bit Yeah, you don't want to use that for podcasting But if you're you know, if you're a recording artist or whatever and you're making your own Well, the thing is if it's music in that case then I believe lame is actually better because lame is supposed to be from music Whereas fraunhofer is better for that lame is awesome at variable bit rate, which is great for music Right, right Don't get confused. Don't use that. Yeah, don't use that. Don't mess up your file And I you know some things I don't even know apply anymore. We used to Okay mono used to be an issue fraunhofer verse lame used to be a thing Um variable bit rate used to be a thing You know, how much all of these are still a thing anymore. I mean so many people are putting out a mono Um, I actually prefer joint stereo To give me the best of both worlds. It's like a mono file with the benefits of stereo. So That's my favorite, but you know used to be and I'm talking a long time ago back in the day dave um When only dave was around so only one on the he was only one podcasting it was amazing and uh You if you did a mono you'd get like the reo players things there were players that couldn't couldn't do it right from what I understand so There yeah, because back then especially players everything was just weird Yeah, you know, they know all of a sudden you'd have just one channel working and then you listen to it I remember there was a weird thing with one of the players that if you did mono it was They're half software now that will take vocals out and it would do that you'd hear like It sounded like the person was in a cave Like all of a sudden they're they're just talking and you know, the The music comes on everything sounds great. They go to talk and you're like, what did you do to your podcast? You're like nothing and then you like it's in mono I had a weird a weird problem that actually daniel had to help me with to figure out what was going on but I had a recording I did with my digital recorder and I had I must had a bad cable and it swapped the left and the right channel on Stereo, but it was true stereo somehow and so the left channel blanked out the right channel So if someone listened to it on something that that It was mono it just sounded blank Absolutely. My voice went away. Yeah You know any and any player that was mono so anybody that was listening on their older iphone that didn't have stereo speakers Didn't hear anything Yeah, it's weird and I was gonna inverted audio. It's kind of weird It is weird and I was gonna say I don't do anything to the audio here, but I am I'm running through a dbx So we're all running through a little bit of processing, but it's all very light I think most of us are using it for the noise gate We're trying to keep those things quiet when we're not talking That's the major benefit, but yeah, I mean with this podcast around table is Uh, it's the simplest edit that I do because I don't I don't really do anything to it I don't there's no intro added. There's nothing. I don't make any cuts unless there's just something really bad Words a bunch of dead airs. I don't I generally don't make any cuts and So it just I drop into an audition. I do I will give Some standard stuff compression a little bit of compression a little bit of eq Especially when I'm dealing with I've got all you guys mixed on one track So I do remove a lot more low end probably than normal so that it sort of equalizes out the sound Um, it's a little flatter for everybody It's it's obviously harder to process audio when you're doing multiple people on the same track That's the advantage of multi-track, but it's not generally a problem For this show. Um, this show does well. Like I said, everyone on microphone generally does a good job But after that man, it's spit out a wave file We're all spitting out wave files out of our editor And then we need to make it into an mp3 at that point and I mentioned that I'm using iTunes Here's another thing Lame and front off and all this stuff used to be they used to say That if you put your id3 tags, which is the metadata inside the mp3 file using iTunes Some places that didn't work. I've never had a problem with it. I've always continued to use it I've never had one person ever write me and say hey, dude mp your id3 tags not working So it's never been an issue for me. It's sounds very old. It is a very old method, but It's easy because I'm also going to create my mp3 file there as well So Dave, how are you making your wave into an mp3? I uh Most of the time I'm in Audition you really do have to think that it's like audition And that's usually where I do that I record as a wave and when I'm in audition first I export it as a wave file and then I I throw that in dropbox as a I don't know an archive So if I ever want to do a greatest hits, you know compilation, I've got a wave file version of that I'll export it as 128 stereo. Now, this is something most people probably shouldn't do. Let's get controversial Yeah, I do 128 stereo because I have a streaming online station That I just you know me. I love to play with tools And I it's what it's 128 stereo and then I export it one more time Um as a mono file 64 So That's and that's all done in audition if I'm using now some of my other kind of less podcast related shows Where people aren't really critiquing every single syllable of what it sounds like Like my weight loss podcast things like that. I'll record directly I'll take the 2100 into Hindenburg and go directly to that via usb And then just export via lane Or whatever, you know, just an mp3 right there the thing It's really cool about Hindenburg. You can do your your id3 tags right inside the software I know in um audition and audacity You can add some of the id3 tags, but not all of them and um Hindenburg will actually let you do all the id3 tags and if you wanted to you can actually publish directly Via ftp to wherever you want to go or they've actually got a setting for for libson So you're doing your id3s in Hindenburg then in Hindenburg if it's a if it's not the school podcasting in many cases Yeah, okay, so school podcasting. How are you doing? I export it as an mp3 file and I use a thing called It's a little orange check mark Um mp3 tag right so another piece of software you have to open up. Yeah now I could um You know upload it and I could have If you're using libson and blueberry does this too, you can have your media host add your id3 tags and I'm not It's some what's not new. It's not new for blueberries for a while. Yeah And I'm not I need to you know, I should know this I don't think we do There's a tag that I normally do that. I don't think libson does I don't think they do the author tag Or there's one of the something I usually put in there that they went now you don't need that But I think they've I need to find out. I think they're adding it but anyway But I've always it's one of the things like you kind of always do what you always did Yeah, that's what I do and I don't know like where they show up. I don't even pay time just fill them out I tag a mayor and uh Yeah, I tag and just upload it and I don't let my media host do anything with it Well, here's the thing because in the most cases those id3's They're there I think more as just in case because they don't show up I mean almost anywhere Yeah, it's like I said That's the only one I know of Is is windows media player? I heard somebody say they thought overcast does this is where we need daniel I think daniel said that really old some of the id's from the file and some from the feed I think it's a I think it's a blend because it really old iPods, right? Yes But what people want to do Is what would be nice is I want to would be nice to be able to customize the artwork that shows up in an app If the app pulled from the id3 tags you could put any artwork you want Yep, daniel and I have gone back and forth testing this a whole bunch of times like it working That's not working in it. So he may remember my memory sucks, but For the most part, I do not see custom id3 artwork showing up Anywhere that I browse overcast may do this. I don't know But when we talk about id3 tags, you know in case Someone is somewhere where they're not pulling the information from the feed or something It's nice to have the info the name of the episode the show some artwork stuff like that, right? Yeah, it's and you hit the nail on the head. It's almost to this point You're almost not Going to need them because everything pulls from the feed And this is only going to get used if you've downloaded the mp3 file onto your computer So you're not listening to it on app your windows media player quick time or whatever's on your mac And so It's almost one of those things that I wish all the manufacturers would either get on the same page or one way or another But it's weird because the one time you download it On your computer and you listen and on windows you get what I affectionately refer to as the gray music note of death You know, and it just it just makes you look like a hack Not that people are going to unsubscribe because you didn't have artwork But you're just like wait, what is there something wrong with this and there's nothing wrong with it You just forgot to put the tags in so it's not a huge deal, but It does it does add that layer of professionalism and it always is neat when at least on a mac and I download someone's file Because I download files obviously for the niche that we're in to check them out or something and there's their show artwork It's a nice little cover art on my you know little square cover art on my desktop and that's always impressive I mean it does show attention to detail and someone is because that's something you're doing for every episode right there's difference between 83 tags that live inside the file the mp3 file And and and just tags that are in your feed, but and no one we're not really we're not doing Enhanced podcast anymore. So no one's making a non mp3 making a mp4 of m4a. I'm sure some of it is There's still they're still kind of trying to come back I know spreeker now is they were huge. They were huge. It definitely worked If it's not they were never they were never huge No, I always hated them because I'd go like I'd be like all right I've had enough of this episode and I'd click next and would go to like the next Chapter not the next podcast and so you like next next next next the idea is nice I like chapter markers. Hey jump right to this spot great Whatever doesn't yeah didn't I do I do similar, you know process to what dave does except for my id three tags I let power press and blueberry write them But if I have one show that's on another network that's on a whole different system And when I I'll write the id three tags in itunes, and I've never had any trouble with that at all ever So I think that's like an old 2006 issue I think several of the things we brought up are sort of yeah 2006 issue. Like yeah, I think it's been A horrible year It's just terrible for party guys. That's the worst the worst year ever Awesome. So I Getting back to being controversial This is where everyone differs in mp3 file and they're not only their mp3 file differs their opinions differ greatly mono versus stereo versus Bitrate right so your final file Okay, Mike's got his hand up. He wants to to reveal bachelor number one. What is your bit rate? I do On I do four podcasts that are active now On three of them. I do 64 mono And on the one I do 128 stereo for similar reasons to why dave does A version that's 128 stereo for a streaming radio station And so it Because I would think a streaming radio station would have lower quality. Is it higher quality? Is that why you're doing they're streaming higher of this particular outfit? They want you to have 128 stereo and then they transcode it however they want it. Got you Dave, why do you do it? I do it simply for that if I think it's at school of podcasting.fm is my streaming station And that's just and the reason I chose 128 I don't remember it's been so long since I made it because you had to pick what bitrate where you're going with I just thought you know what? I'm gonna assume Because I go 64 mono because for most of my stuff because of the bandwidth issue Or taking up room on somebody's phone. This is a big deal And so for this I'm like if somebody is listening to a streaming radio station This is somebody who's not worried about bandwidth hence the name streaming radio station So I just went all right. Let's go 128. So that's why I did that for that And I know I mean I get maybe 30 listeners a month. I'd have to go and check my stats It occasionally I will get kind of a A little bit of a spike, but it's it's interesting and I'm like, it's like, I don't know nine bucks a month and I'm like, all right. I'll Yeah, it's their spec. They're making you do 128 because 128 is something I used to do too. He's it sounds fantastic Go music obviously, um, but there's a huge issue I mean not most or I would say most podcasts are 30 minutes and beyond right typically probably running closer to an hour and there are caps there is Speed there's all kinds of things to consider for the person who's listening Um, you are making you're determining like maybe how much of their data they have to use and now everyone's listening to probably like Multiple podcasts. So yeah, it doesn't sound great But as a producer you have to weigh that against your audience and we're talking We're an international global medium, right? So some people have really strict caps or even even in you know There's places plenty of places in the u.s. Where maybe people aren't even on they're barely on dial up still I mean the internet is not as it's not as Ubiquitous as as we like to probably think 64 mono is all the more you need unless you're doing, you know Jazz or classical music or something where you know stereo separation matters And I defy you to tell the difference with you know with just some people talking, you know on a podcast I defy you to tell the difference between stereo and mono unless they're doing some sort of weird left right effects, but Right, and I go ahead Dave. I hate the fact. I think the default in itunes Is like 192 or something, right? Yeah, you'll get somebody because itunes is made for music Yeah, and they'll be like, hey, I just uploaded one episode and i'm out of room Right, we're my hosting. You're like what's in the first thing you do? Okay, well your your bit rates like four times what it needs to be Yeah stargate pioneer in the chat. He says he does 96 Mono he says probably overkill for mono talk, but it's a decent compromise. It's my favorite compromise. I absolutely love 96 joint stereo It's what the podcasters studio generally goes out at For me, I still find with the joint stereo you get when it's music you sort of still get that That perception of stereo It's more closer to the size of mono at 96 I hear almost no degradation in my in my music And and obviously the the voice sounds fantastic. I I think I can hear slight difference in dialogue at 64 96 It's not enough to actually be seriously considered for the round table here As I said, there's no intro music or anything and intro music's really not enough anyways It's only like 30 seconds at most think about this Most people are listening on the crappy earbuds that come with your phone Or they're listening in a car through bluetooth, which degrades everything anyway. So, you know You know, it's it's it's pretty moot point unless you know, unless somebody's you know, got you know, they're boos wave radio plugged into their I already do a show about podcasting where people are very hypercursor audio Your self is very hypercursor. So 96 is a great meter, but here's the thing. I have this sort of artificial limit I won't let it go above Almost 45 50 may and that's getting too much and I will downgrade to 90 to 64. No mono. No problem This show the round table goes out at 64 mono Because again, it sounds great, it sounds Fantastic, so that's what it's going to go out at and I'm actually producing more shows at work. I produce shows More of those I'm putting out at 64. I mean it you just really I think if you do it long enough and you get in touch with enough listeners It's just why wouldn't you give your listener the lightest weight file possible? Um, and so this is again, this is something that everybody has an opinion on and everyone does a different It's no standard. You could put out 320 kilobit per second and it happens Dave you alluded to it You have people who upload the lips and and they're like, I'm out of storage on my 50 megabyte plan with one and a half Episodes why or they uploaded the wave? So I mean, no, there's still some I get that every once in a while I'll get somebody that you know upload a wave and wonder why they're out of space So, yeah, or they'll upload or they'll upload the audacity file like whatever it is the dot a This won't play It's like oops wrong file Gary in the chat Says that he does the weird quote-unquote weird left right stereo and talk shows not hard left right about 25% and again It's a subjective thing. It's something that I absolutely wouldn't do because Here's how I here's how I go to bed and you know, you know what happens when I get a But one earbud in bed every night I get a file that that one guy's on the left and one guy's on the right If I really want to listen to that, I'll take it into audition make it a mono file and reload it I will not listen to that. Yeah, I mean he likes the effect in the core But I mean so this is again another subjective thing But I do really need to be careful of the one earbud listener, which I think you get a lot of Stargate pioneer welcome my friend Hey, you put a link in the chat and I thought I'd show up, you know, I like I like the the left right Uh dichotomy because if you don't like one of the if you don't like one of the hosts, you just take that earbud out Yes, actually, that's true this confession. This show is totally left, right? Dave is on the left and I never have my left earbud in It makes the round table just beautiful Unfortunately, it's a video show and I can see the earbuds in both ears Oh, no during the recording. Sure. I gotta make Dave feel like right part of the show But when I listen back man, forget it like no one watches the video. Are you kidding me? Hey, well, I for want to have a face for radio. So, you know, that's all right We fixed your lighting and your face looks a lot better than it did. Okay. Very you was very mike Adele alien before so we fixed it but SP what uh, how do you produce your mp3? What's your final? What's your controversial bit rate? Well, I said in the chat earlier it was 96 mono and I do so I bring the wave file out of Audacity, I do the conversion in itunes And that's my mp3 is out of itunes at 96 mono. Nice. And are you doing anything? What are you doing that actually affects the audio compression eq any of that stuff? Yeah, I use a compression plug-in to Audacity called gmax. I also do noise rejection. I do noise gating and I end up throwing it through a Orban loudness meter to get to that Minus 16 moves it actually analyzes the file and then I have to go back in and resave the file I have to adjust the the gain on the the one track that's left in the wave file Before I export it to itunes to do the conversion to get it at that minus 16 loose Which I think is the standard for podcasts, right? It it's a it's a working standard. It's a recommendation That internet audio essentially because of the devices that we consume audio video on And the way they output audio and the levels that 16 l ufs which is loudness units full scale It's you know, like if you see if you hear 24 db I've done too much on this and and I am so not the person to be talking about it But loudness units what's the rest of that? I think it's loudness units full scale. I I think I'm ready for jeopardy right now my friend You are on jeopardy Well, one of the things recently that's really gotten my my my goat really on the loudness thing is I listened to Alexa's flash news. Oh, hey and unfortunately um Well, yes, I listened to Dave's school podcastings. Uh, Alexa. How about his show about Alexa? Yeah, I I listened to that as well But the point is I'm listening to all these news flashes and some of them are from very reputable outlets And their audio is all over the place in terms of loudness And I can only imagine what anybody listening to podcasting thinks about that as well And so here's a this is this is why this exists and Why this is one of those things that I think should be a standard and may become a standard This might be something that the platforms do for you itunes already has an option for this. You can turn it on I'm blanking on what it's called If you have an iPod you can do basically it'll do it for you to level out the noise So when you go from one song to another or one podcast to another It sounds the same You don't you like this one's really low and then the next what you crank up your volume And then you you play dave's episode and then you play mike's episode and his is really loud and oh my god That really hurt or you just have to keep working the level so this puts it at a 16 lufs is just a standard look into go to the podcast studio dot com Look up loudness. You'll see hours about it with with york from a phonic and so a phonic does this drag and drop Um for you and you can just hit your target. You say I want it to be minus 16 And it'll make it now your audio still needs to be balanced which a phonic also does for you because just because it's minus 16 doesn't mean that That oh i'm interviewing dave and dave is going to sound the same as me in terms of level unless we've done that already But again a phonic does this for you. It's why it's not now to throw a wrench into that a little bit that loudness standard of 16 That's for stereo. Yeah, and there's another 19 was it 19 or 20 minus 19 for mono. Yep, right, but I found that if you run a stereo file through a phonic And then I'll put it as a stereo file at minus 16 then converted mono in audition It that that loudness standard state it goes up to the 19 or the minus 19 or down to That plus minus thing gets me all screwed up on those standards, but my general advice I use a phonic as a as a polishing step. It's going to be the last thing I do So take whatever you got throw it into a phonic and there is a free version You can do you can get like two hours a month or something Yeah, I I do I do the conversion to mono as my last step. I don't I run it through a phonic in stereo Then I do the uh, sure, but you could flip it and Yeah, you could just be the same so to make it easy for the end user I would say do it as your last as your last step to finish off your file But again, this is this is why we're talking about it because everyone's got a different way So maybe like Mike's way better. It's perfect the the controversial way I export my file In audition is I know I should be worried about Luffs and loops and all the other ones But um, I just have my master channel has a hard limiter at minus six the problem with that So here's the difference. Here's the difference peak levels have zero to do with loudness levels, right? So that's why this actually exists. So we see an average podcaster. They're like, oh, but I I make my audio The the level goes minus three man. It's it's always hitting minus three. You're like, yeah That's the peak the absolute peak of certain parts of your audio. That's it our our ear Absolutely does not measure the sound level that way So has nothing to do with the actual level now you may get if you consistently record your audio about the same way You can drop it in and scan it with certain different things and see what the loudness is And you're probably consistent for your own show, but you might not be hitting that level There's also an issue with true peak Which your your audio can actually clip I make a game out of it. I try to record my podcast To where when I put it in our phonic, it comes up at minus 16 Right, you want to know minus 16? And if you know what you're doing you can nail it you can nail it on the spot And and so here's the thing again if all of this most likely is gibberish to most people even who are listening to this show A fauna that's I mean I I'm not getting paid by a phonic But it's the easy way to handle if you think this is maybe something I want to try Go use the free version of phonic and check it out But um and and auditions got some built-in tools for this Now that are really good So that's that's what I was going to see. I know I can right click hindenburg Yeah, yeah, actually hindenburg now does have a thing when you export it standard Yeah, and I know because there's a way I forget where it is. It's some sort of Effect it's not an effect, but it's something where you drag a file in and say make this Minus 16 loops and it does the thing and then you can drag that file back out or whatever And that's one is where I'm like I think I'm with you I think if I was really going to worry about that I would just throw it an alphonic I think I'm hearing a lot of loops and I think a lot of people here grew up in the 80s And I'm just picturing red balloons and there's all kinds of These aren't 99 left balloons you guys I don't That's how it's spelled It's also spelled lkfs. Yes loud. Yes, and it's the same thing. It literally is the same thing So again, yes, all of this sounds crazy talk even from podcasters They don't expect normal people to even but there are Solutions now that make it super easy if here's the key if you want your audio to sound the same Level from episode to episode consistent across your catalog. This is why you'd want to do that So yep Nothing's worse. So you you get a playlist of different podcasts And you plug it into your stereo in your car and you're driving down the road And the next one comes on and blows your drums out and and then once you get that one 11 the next one comes on you got to crank the volume up Yeah, the whole idea the standard is so that everybody's podcast is about the same That's right It would ideally that's the way it would work But as a producer now right now we have to take care of it ourselves and it's something you should do right I mean at some point I'm always talking about getting better. This is something you can learn As you go, but gary Did somebody say there's a standard there's a stand now. Look who we're talking to Mr. Ham radio, right You you probably just you're listening to all this thinking. What what is all wrong. It's all wrong I've been trying to keep my wire cast working crazy, so I'm a ham too Why don't you give us your uh controversial bit? How did you what is your final mp3 file delivered at? It's either 64 mono or 128 stereo and we need the why How do you end up there? Well, I mean that's um 60. They're the same, you know, it's basically the same bit rate um Right and if that's what good compromise between sounds fine for voice And makes a relatively small file Now gary is the very controversial person in the chat room who likes to pan a little bit. Yeah Why do you do why do you like that gary? It's a little more real um I mean clearly it's not a real popular thing to do because not very many people do it, but um It gives you a little more sense of space of the two people that are talking with them You know two people works best if I've got three or four people is not so great I could I could see that being handy if you had a brother Team and they sound alike You know you have larry and gerry and they both sound alike because I know I have people say my My brother and I sound alike so I could see if we were doing a podcast where you might want to pan it So you know who's talking because larry's in the left and and i'm in the right or whatever But if you do it like 20 or something like that, it's not a problem I've seen people will they go hard left for yeah, that's one close and hard right for the other I think that's an only the Beatles can get away with that Only practical thing that I can say about it is that if you tend to interrupt someone a lot that a listener can Understand a little bit of both of you If you're talking for a couple words on top of each other it helps a little bit I've got in the chat room patrick's eyes are crossing at this point And uh, I think this is an older comment from eric crap plus crappy equals more crappy So I think that was when we had to do a bit, right? So uh, yeah, if you just pile bad on top of bad It's just gonna be that bad uh someone else in the chat said they just started podcasting Episodes published yesterday. They picked up a bunch of tips from the round table on the school of podcasting. So thanks I'm only recording into an atr 2100 plenty. That's plenty and into hinderberg pro via usb set to mono It says is the next thing for me to do to get aphonic to improve audio By the way, I only go with mono 16 bit 44 one So everything sounds great there aphonic would give you a little more polish But I would say dig into hinderberg maybe get in touch with dave because hinderberg Does a lot of this stuff for you it does a lot of auto stuff and hinderberg is the editor I would probably recommend that I don't use like I think it's fantastic Yeah, I'm this close to dumping audition Just because every every yeah, basically and it's not that 20 bucks is going to kill me. It's just like in the only really Yeah, I if you know 80 of my stuff now I'm doing in hinderberg just because it's easy and it sounds really stupid the fact that I don't have to pull out a card Half stand on my head to put it on my computer and then copy and paste it And all those shows by the way are like you said earlier They're all really quick shows and so if it does crash which so far it hasn't not gone for mica It's not a big deal But I'm just just wanted to remind going. Why am I using audition again? And I have I have the last version of audition you could buy out And I'm not going to upgrade until I absolutely have to I did that I went down with the ship on soundtrack pro until it absolutely did not work and then I Fortunately, I do video and stuff. So I'm it is painful. I just re-upped my creative suite There's a there's a cool tool in hindenburg pro Where what I did was I brought in a sample of me with my You know electro voice going through my hardware basically the sound of me from the school of podcasting I had hindenburg listen to it and then basically said apply Whatever setting it's got to take to make my 2100 sound like me coming from the school podcasting It's called a voice profile and it's a way that you can kind of get consistent sounding That way if you you know use different mics or things like that. It's pretty cool It's like I say there's a lot of really cool stuff in the software the more I'm peeling it back and going Oh, I didn't know you could split joint files into You know separate mono files and all sorts of other stuff and I'm just starting to kind of go Why am I using audition again? So it's pretty cool And and Ray's not getting paid by alphonic. I'm not getting paid by hindenburg, but These are these are both I endorse both of those they're they're fantastic I mean at some point we're going to use enough stuff here With enough time We're going to be like these are the ones you like something has to win and these are great I think for the key is to both of those. They're both great for all podcasters Super simple I guess my one tip would be there's I've run into a lot of people that are using Garage band Record and then they I'll put it as a As a m4a yeah Like our joint vomit session and like, you know mp3 is the standard and they're going well why it works everywhere? Well, yeah, it does work everywhere, but guess what it's not standard until it doesn't yeah And then you know if somebody's got an old eye river somewhere that ain't gonna work Or an old iPod. I mean I have an iPod classic somewhere in the bottom of this drawer over here I still listen to my iPod Shuffle that that that works on but there's other things that don't work on it, you know, so Yeah, garage band is you know, it used to be you can get the job done Um, it used to be better. It's just really bad now There's a lot of things that you just it's very limiting if the thing is if you use it and it works and you don't know What you can't do if it works, you're fine. Like I don't worry about it. I'll put it as an mp3 Right. I mean and I would say imp. Yeah mp3 or output as a wave and use itunes I have a video on the podcast studio that shows you how to use the software for my tunes. Um There are a lot of ways to do it a phonic again. We'll do it for you They'll make that mp3 after they do all the magical processing So there's a lot of ways to get it done again if you're doing it and it's working There's nothing wrong with the way you're doing it. And that's why we want to get all his opinions, but sp Is anything else about You know, you've dealt with How many thousands mp3 files at this point like any other gotchas or things that you do Well, it's the it's the conversion that I do in itunes versus audacity To mp3 is because the lame encoder. Did you guys discuss that already? Yeah, that lame encoder. I I didn't believe it until I did a actual audio test myself and and that was definitely a difference enough to me to not do that anymore at least not If I can get away with it I won't the other things make sure you just get your sound right to begin with as much as you can low Noise high gain not clipping between minus Six and minus 12 getting that sweet zone as much as you can that'll help you out in the end Yeah, I mean I gave a talk a couple years ago a podcast movement about audio post-production. I spent the first 20 minutes Well waking up because I'd sit up all night because because I My whole thing crashed on me which I then had to I had it all prepped to do all the demos on audition And I had to steal Corey Finneran's Laptop he he actually got in steal it. He gave it to me at like midnight. I called him at the hotel. I was like, dude I remember that Oh, what a nightmare and I had to redo the whole thing and show people how to do stuff on garage band I'm like I had to figure out all the garage band effects. So I was up all night, but anyways long story longer um Long story longer. I don't remember what I was talking about but um, I have no clue what I was talking about You don't have to move on you you were talking about the different encodings and getting your audio, right? Yeah, I was getting it right I spent the first 20 minutes of a post production Seminar or whatever you want to talk talking about Before you actually even start recording. I mean so like sp is saying like it is so crucial The more you can do for yourself to get it right in the beginning Whether that's the microphone It's the gain staging of your mixer or your recorder The environment you're recording in the mic technique you're using All of those things this will make all of all of these problems that you see people mention where the levels suck or You know, Dave, you talked about trying to get an interview. This is a big one Almost nobody's able to get the interviewee and yourself matched and that's always going to take post production Even then some people have trouble No amount of post production that will fix a fix a crappy recording Oh, yeah. I mean, I think I said in that thing I said that you know, you can't make bad audio good You can only make it less bad. I mean, and that's really what that's really what happens with bad audio So if you can get it right, you know, take the time because fixing stuff in post, you know I think you're getting the idea here that you're hearing guys who've been doing it forever That they're finding they're shaving off little things here and there that make the difference over time Like, you know, like just whether it's getting the the file off the sd card in the computer And you do that via usb or you take it out that whatever people are shaving minutes here because it's a lot of Production but patrick has a question Dave He says, uh, this might be a suggestion He says but he's very interested in learning more about what everyone does with their old shows In other words, what do you keep? What do you delete? What do you move to external drives? Um, he says I am so there right now in going through it I like I said I export a wave file of the finished thing um I usually delete I keep the original interview And then I keep the edited interview and it's kind of where because in between they'll be like A mono version a stereo version. So I kind of keep I always keep the original one just in case I have to go all the way back from from square one um And in theory I should go back and delete all the other stuff that isn't there But I know Daniel. I think he says he does what I do which I throw all the All the pieces parts for episode You know 547 are in this folder And I think Daniel zips up that whole folder and throws it into dropbox or some other place where he's storing stuff I should do that But I usually that that's where it stalls I make my backups and I usually throw the wave file in dropbox and I keep everything else On my hard drive, but I'm with you it when I made my 2017 folder and I saw all these other folders I'm like I should probably go through and clean that stuff up I could probably get you know a half a gig of of right, you know So every year I find myself scrambling for space on my computer And I go back and and I have programs that scan and say what's using up all the space and a lot of times Then I'll find a mass of wave files and especially this show. I'm talking we're doing I'm doing four channel It's all wave. It's an hour long. There's huge files. We're talking a gigabyte right and that adds up so You know what I do Is I I find myself getting rid of waves Often now I definitely save the edit file so that I it no matter You know, I can bring back something and cut it up again as long as the audio You know as long as the time it matches so I could bring in the mp3 file because First of all, I'm producing a good mp3 file second of all like Almost what's going to happen. I mean if you're at the point where you have to go back and edit something If you're producing a nice sounding amp, it's not going to matter But storage is so cheap these days. I have this thing called crash plan It's constantly taking everything from my computer. So it exists in sort of a in the cloud as like a failsafe So for some reason I did want the wave some of my computer. It's going to be difficult to get to it exists So but for the most part, I mean I have found myself But once you get like a year away from the episode It becomes a lot easier to just be like delete delete delete. So I definitely will delete waves I will keep the mp3 files Uh for sure or maybe make a higher quality mp3, but you can keep the waves It's it's all about storage. Hmm. I mean even if I keep everything. Yeah, you can keep that stuff, but hard I tend to keep everything but I also it backs up to carbon. I it backs up the time machine on external drive and Then if you know if I need space on my main machine, I just dump it there because it's backed up in those other two places Patrick saying keep all the DAW files. I don't keep any render file. I don't keep anything except for The file see it depends on what you do. I think he's using audacity and audacity is weird It chops up a bunch of you get a ton of like these little files and this would be for daniel On audition I have one file and if I open it up and just have the audio that fits in that space It'll it'll know all the chop points in the edits, right? So but audacity gets a little weird and it chops up a whole bunch of stuff So I mean I want to keep the file that will allow me to open up the editor again And work with how the audio was cut originally So whatever that takes Anybody else? What are you guys doing sp? How many shows do you have? I need to running a network. Yeah, right. I I don't run the network that's steven I do run or have run six shows including a pod faded one And I have up my storage internally on my Computer to the point where I can keep all the wave files I probably should have stored them in flak But I just at the time wanted to keep wave and actually that's turning out beneficial to me Because keeping the original files because I get to go back and remaster some of the stuff that Was poorly produced the first time around when I was a young podcasters and the show is still going right now So that's starling tribune So I am going back and reproducing those with the original wave files Which is a blessing knowing what I know now about production versus knowing what I knew in the beginning But I've got a four terabyte internal hard drive that's storing the files I've got an eight terabyte external drive now in addition to I've got a two terabyte for personal storage and a couple of 500 SSD working files all in that computer. It's a gaming computer so it can take all of that But eventually I'm gonna have my own little server farm if I could keep on doing all that And then I also have another external drive that it take to an off-site location to make sure that if something catastrophic ever happened to me in my Place a tornado earthquake volcano whatever that I can go to another location and pick up those files and start all over again Yeah, and that's one nice thing about your audio host I mean at least you are you have uploaded to the cloud when you upload to deliver the file to to the internet Like if it's your mp3 at least lips in or blueberry your file does it exist like if something happened You lost it there you could get it. I I like The idea of taking your mp3s and putting them on archive.org just for a place for it always to exist You know if for some reason lips and then blueberry were gone And you know or your show could go on for free forever in theory as long as archive.org exists So there are a lot of ways to hand your files. I mean gary. I think you're still with us in audio What do you do with your wave file? Are you here? Are you hearing me? Yep. Yep. Okay. Good. Um, my my wire cast died So you you're not getting the picture Um, I do everything on external usb 3 2 terabyte drives and i'm doing television So I fill one up I I do two so I have a backup and when I fill them up I put them on a shelf and start on another couple and I can't take credit for that idea I got that from one of the guys off of twit The guy that um runs the pixel core. Oh, alex lenzie alex lenzie. Yeah, he suggested that and uh And I started doing that and it it works good. They're cheap Yeah, there's a backup eventually, you know, both of them You plug him in 10 they're 10 years old and neither one of them is going to play but Who cares at that point? Yeah, I have I I'm trying to avoid the stacks of external drives because I mean I I need a solution I still need a better solution. I'm glad it's on the cloud. I know they're so small But I'm gonna have like a bookshelf full of storage is very interesting. Fortunately. It's gotten really cheap I mean relative when I say a really cheap nothing That cheap but it's cheap to store stuff these days I got a couple years worth of video in the space of one vhs tape. So nice nice Awesome. Well, I think that was a perfect place to stop. We're about at that time So if you have any final words wisdom you want to share that we missed Please share that otherwise. Let us know where we can find your podcast where the listeners can find your podcast And uh, we'll head on out here and we'll start with sp. Thank you so much for jumping in I did throw the link if you're in the chat live Once in a while, I just tossed the link and you just jump in and this was perfect It was a weird round where I couldn't find people to appear We shifted it one day, but hey, we got an awesome Audience a bunch of roundtablers jumping in and uh and rescuing us. So is sp. Thanks so much Yeah, you bet You know jumping into a podcast is roundtable midstream is like jumping off the 10 meter board at your local pool You never know what you're going to find at the bottom of that pool. You're good. Yeah, all right. Oh wait, it's 10 meters Wait, what's this 30 meters is like the olympic one right like the crazy 10 meters is 30 feet high. So it's two stories. Yeah, have you jumped off at 10 meter? I yes, I have congrats. I have not It was a terrifying experience every time I did that But thanks for having me on the first important thing is if you have content just get it out there and worry about fixing the audio eventually If you're have if you if you're stuck on that Get some help but get that content out there. That's the most important thing But try to do your best don't Export crap because if if you can do better and you're exporting crap then I don't know if you're necessarily going to grow your audience So but the more hey, I'm a hobby podcaster You can find me at better podcasting.com and the more most important part to me is just have fun with doing what you're doing Yep, I agree with all that fantastic. Mike. Del. Thanks for playing the Daniel J. Lewis role today joining us once again Yep, and there's a lot of a lot of fun as usual been on a couple times and My only thing is the same thing is sp said there, you know, just do it, you know Um Because if you don't record anything Your content's not going to get out there. Don't overanalyze it. Don't sit there. Well, it's doesn't sound like it came from the radio station It's not good enough and no, it's fine. If we as long as it's not painful listen to it's fine Anyway, you can find me at podcast help desk dot com and other places Fantastic and you may if you are have questions about your mp3 file and getting it to uh blueberry You might run into mr. Mike there. So it's a little behind the scenes so All right. Hey gary we lost your video, but it's okay. We saw you and thanks for jumping in and joining us Once again, you've been here before so always good to have round table is back on Yeah, sorry. I couldn't get in from the beginning We were out to dinner with some friends and we've got some new cats and they needed to come see the cats So we're not playing with those I do the ham radio now dot tv YouTube and it's since I think since the last time I talked to you It's also officially a podcast that you can look up on itunes. So I'm officially a podcaster file Is it video on itunes or no? Okay, and I can't afford video. I know it's way it's too expensive for a box site We talked about that last time totally what say it again because we cut out there. Yeah ham radio now and uh, but in terms of archiving Video and anything you want uh, you probably you're familiar with it But probably don't say it often enough archive.org and just starting to put stuff up there The wayback machine. Yeah, exactly. It's a cool resource. You should definitely support it too I think if anyone who uploads there if you upload enough definitely throw them, you know 10 bucks or something because They're basically preserving all the web and they do it, you know, it's I'd probably a nonprofit or something But they could use it. We want it. I want it to to be around so Uh, definitely support them if possible and dave jackson Thank you so much dave jackson from the school of podcasting.com and um, I know we did we Throughout a lot of kilobits and bit rates and things like that. So if that's if this episode kind of made your head spin a little bit don't freak out about it and uh, you know When I started off playing the guitar I started off with chuck berry before I migrated to van halen and Invade malmsteen so start where you're at and like these other guys said just get it out there because you can't improve what you don't Have so You know, and you're not gonna affect anybody if it's on your hard drive You gotta get it out there Very true. Awesome advice everyone should heed that and definitely get your podcast started But get in touch if you're having problems. We will any of us here will help you Push you along or give you advice Everyone here is so awesome with your time. So thanks again everybody for joining us podcasters roundtable.com Slash guest to sign up to actually be a guest or to show up in the chat and just throw the link out there Whatever works All right, 87. We'll see you next time wave. Goodbye. Adios