 Hi there, this is Brian Gracely with Wikibon coming to you with Silicon Angles coverage here at DevOps Enterprise Summit, doing stand-ups here with theCUBE, and I'm here with Neil Manvar, solution architect with Sauce Labs. Neil, introduce yourself, introduce Sauce Labs, let folks know what you guys do, especially around the mobile testing space. Yep, so my name is Neil Manvar, I'm a solutions architect for Sauce Labs, and Sauce Labs is a test infrastructure so that you can concentrate on writing source code and test code for your source code in that we'll take care of the automated infrastructure. In terms of mobile, we have all the different iOS simulators as well as the Android emulators, and as well as a real device cloud, which has hundreds of devices, so it's meant for at scale and parallel execution. So we're a big test grid infrastructure, both for Selenium and Appium. So essentially, mobile testing as a service is a SaaS application. We are watching the keynote this morning, Capital One, who was one of the reference customers who talked about how mobile applications are now 2x interactions that they're seeing over web applications. What are customers trying to do? You've got some experience with Yahoo and others. What are customers doing in terms of changing their mindset of web applications versus mobile applications? So mobile was a little bit late to the game to continuous delivery in the fact that it's hard to implement, and now continuous delivery is getting increasingly popular all throughout the board with all types of products, whether it be web or mobile or native or hybrid, and because of that, when you release, it's very critical that you get things correct, especially in the mobile world, and to release fast and frequently is very difficult to do without automated testing, and automated testing will play a big role, so customers such as Capital One will test their app out in all the different devices and make sure it works as part of every code change that they do, and they're ready to push to production and can be confident about the way that they're operating. And we all know, web applications could take longer, old legacy applications could go 12, 18 months, iOS comes out every three months, six months of the new thing, Android's the same, people want to push new applications. Talk a little bit about, is this forcing DevOps because the changes to the apps, the expectations are so much faster, and what makes it harder to test because now you've got touch interfaces, you've got all these different operating systems. Talk a little bit about what's driving the speed and some of the complexity. Exactly, so the whole mobile testing space is new, and new technologies are emerging to enable automated testing. Most predominantly in the mobile space, there's Appium, which the philosophy is very interesting where you should be able to recycle Android code and iOS code and not have two separate code bases to test, as well as not have to edit your app for testing in any different way and be able to write in every different language, just as Selenium provides. So the industry is now, the industry and the open source community are helping testing on mobile and enabling that in exactly. Yeah, so you're giving a talk this week about the work that you had done previously when you were at Yahoo that you're extending and doing your work with Sauce Labs. It's a big grid, it's a big scale of way of testing. Is this usable for people that aren't that big or you're not sure how big their application's gonna get in terms of end users, is it for anybody? Yeah, it's for anybody. All the way from a small startup to an individual contractor up to big enterprises like Yahoo and Capital One, like you mentioned, it's basically meant to set a precedent of how we're gonna develop. This is the way we're gonna develop. We're gonna do source code, we're gonna do test code, both unit and functional, run them on Sauce and all the different browsers and mobile devices, such that every time I make a code change, I know everything is okay. And what this does is it reinforces quality and good practices and sets you up for success. So it doesn't matter whether you're a big company, a small company, even an individual developer, writing tests is a good thing and practicing something like continuous delivery where automated testing is very critical. It helps you accelerate what you do. And so if you can get set with continuous delivery and also automated testing from the very start in get go, your pace of development and time to production and time to market is gonna be significantly short. Gotcha, gotcha. Now, we heard again, going back to the Capital One reference, they said basically that's their new storefront. That's, for them it's the new bank, but for other companies it's a new storefront. Is there any reason why people should do their own in-house testing? You guys are building so much of a learning curve, so many examples of what people do across, is there really any reason why somebody would wanna do their own in-house testing anymore? Does it make any sense? You mean as an in-house grid? Yeah, absolutely. It really doesn't make sense because these software companies or even these banking companies like Capital One, they earn the business of banking or software, not maintaining a bunch of different browsers and VMs and Microsoft licenses and Mac and having a grid of all these machines and keeping up to date with the new versions, having all the different versions of the browsers, having all the different emulators and real devices. That's our business, we'll help you, we'll do that and you can concentrate on your source code and test code and delivering that, which in terms means business acceleration and so I don't think there's any reason why a company like Capital One or any other big company should, or even small company should invest in an internal grid because it ends up just costing more and it's not their core business. Can you give us any metrics that you've seen from the customer work you've done of faster time to market cost savings? Anything that you guys reference pretty frequently? Yeah, definitely. One example which you'll see in my talk as well was at Yahoo, we used to only deliver code once every two weeks or once every month and using automated testing and having something like Sauce Labs to run on really helped in that we could get all the browser coverage and execute massively in parallel and not have to worry about the test infrastructure and the faster we could test, the faster we could release. And are you guys able to deal with any nuances that are different in one geography versus another, how people might use mobile applications? So we can definitely do some network throttling and we definitely have a products like Sauce Connect which can help you do stuff like that. As in terms of different regions, not exactly so. We're a big grid and you write the test so if you would reflect it to do a different language or which is something that we did at Yahoo, different localization and internationalization testing, you could definitely use it for some region testing as well. So make sure your product works in all the different regions and languages and on the various devices. No, that's great. I know we were out at AWS re-invent a couple weeks ago, one of the things we heard over and over from customers is they were saying, the reason we like that is we get out of the undifferentiated heavy lifting, right? The stuff that really doesn't matter. You talked about it. It's great to see that that thing which applies to infrastructure now applies to testing. We're seeing these patterns over and over again. You know, last question, what's, as people are rolling out more with new things with mobile, what's the next big thing around mobile that drives the need for automated testing? Is there a certain kind of feature? Is there a certain use case that you're seeing more and more customers are saying help us with this? So in regards to mobile, when you don't get it right, all your users suffer. When you deliver a really, when you ship to the app store and you deliver a bad app, you expect Facebook to work every time, but that time it doesn't work, it's gonna stay unbroken until they release an update. So the time to production and the time to market and making sure you're delivering quality code frequently is really what's driving mobile and automated testing in mobile. Right, got it. And with the competitors on the app store, you better get it right. You better get the updates right. Somebody will find an alternative application. So Neil, with that, I'm gonna wrap it up, folks. Thanks for watching. We're gonna have a whole bunch of videos here from DevOps Enterprise Summit. So keep coming back to siliconvalley.tv and you can see all the videos from the whole week. Thank you.