 Hi and welcome to another episode of McGuire's Shop Talk. I'm Michael Stoops the senior global product and training specialist here and Joining me today is Derek Bemis who for the last 36 years has been the owner and Operator of detail works a professional detailing concern here in Orange County been doing this for a minute or two for a minute or two Taking care of a few different private collections couple of them pretty impressive as well as customers with you know I got a daily driver. I need to look on really good Yeah, we covered the whole spectrum and speaking to my right here is Marcus Klyce Who is our product developer for our professional and marine line of products? Yes, sir You've been with us for how long now? Four years as an employee and then I spent eight years as a moderator for McGuire's online Which is where I you know got very familiar with the product right during the time when I was the admin of the So well when we talk about wax because we got carnival wax we've got ultimate wax Which is actually a synthetic polymer sealant and we've got hybrid ceramic wax. They all say wax. What are we talking about with wax? What do we really mean with wax now when we've got I? There really isn't even wax in this. Why do we call it a wax? What's going on? It's actually a great question. I think it's becoming a household Dane when you say wax the car. I want to protect it. I want to make it look better I want to make it look good. I want to bring it back up to yeah No, definitely. I mean as a product developer, you know when you set out to create a product Sometimes you know what you're going to try and end up at with based on a name or sometimes based on a technology That we've found in the lab and sometimes you just start out not knowing exactly where you're going to end up And we've done that a few times in recent years with products But we know we're going to make a product that protects paint But we don't know is it going to be a true pure wax Or or or more old-school wax or is it going to be a sealant or is it going to be some mix of the two? so and and the reason is Customers know the term wax, you know, and you say I'm going to go wax my car Right, they may not actually mean wax sometimes it doesn't even just mean they're going to go put a sealant on it Sometimes it means they're going to go polish it right and they think that that is waxing their car You know, it's a it's a term that gets kind of used interchangeably I know with with all of the the quick detailer that we've given away at car shows for years and years and years People still come up to us and say, oh man, I love this stuff. It's the best wax. I've ever you know, right There's no wax in it. There's no protection in it, right? But but it's it's it's what they think and even with synthetic sealants like NXT and Ultimate and others on the market We still get phone calls from people who say hey, I just put a sealant on my car And I'm curious what wax do I need now and to your point and to yours they all protect the paint, right? So when we we look at this kind of whole range of things is we've got basically different generations of product here this You know McGuire's cleaner wax. This isn't just a wax just to protect the paint This also will kind of deep clean the paint and really this is the first consumer product By the way that McGuire's ever made dates back to 1973 and we still make this today from 73 but this and like high-tech yellow wax and Gold-class Carnuba plus they use primarily Carnuba wax as the protection for the paint and this has been traditional for decades that Carnuba wax is what was used because Carnuba is the hardest naturally occurring wax there is It's about that hard in its natural state So you can't really use it unless we refine it and add solvents and one up But then technology advanced and we got into synthetics like NXT tech wax and Ultimate wax And the technologies advanced even more and we've got this SiO to this this silicon dioxide back bone stuff But unlike consumer electronics and other industries This didn't make these obsolete right and this didn't make these you can still buy this these generations Co-exist what's going on there and it still works. I mean still does its job Yeah, but you know go out and shop for an iPhone 6 today. You shop for an 11 if you're cool, right? Right. Why are you still shopping for for this in my experience? customer preference There is a difference between the visual aspect from a polymer to a carnival Okay, or even to a SiO to it's different and people pick up on that and they like the old school But sometimes or they you know they want what they want when you look at technology and you talk about obsolete It's a good point, you know very quickly. You're gonna phase out and obsolete a Phone or a computer or something like that the new one comes out There isn't a whole lot of appeal the old one although I think like Nintendo's and stuff are getting cool again, you know 40 years later 30 years later Nostalgia, yeah, yeah then aside from nostalgia, you know There really is kind of a different way of looking at technology when you talk about car care And I think it's for a few reasons and one of them is frankly. We're working on cars You know especially you that oh, yeah are a hundred years old and everywhere in between right and People that have cars with that much heritage and original paint jobs and patina sure sure They don't want to put something on that car nothing the nothing at all That it was not available back at the time when that car was made, you know These are cars that that have emotional attachment usually for these owners and yeah, there's absolute There's a very early heirlooms. Yeah, they're heirlooms. I mean there's history You know you go to museums and all this car played a role in that, you know This parade in the jfk limo all these different things People want to stay true to the heritage of the car And so I think when they know that hey carnuba is what was used back then that is their preference Derek you're dealing with with customers that have nice daily drivers all the way up to Collections that may include cars that are worth seven figures Vehicle and and some of it, you know paint back to the night the nitrocellulis lacquer. Yeah, you know so These tools are very important for the appearance Yeah, so a given client who has this this broad mix of vehicles You're not necessarily using the same product the same protection on every vehicle. No, good. Absolutely not. It's a preference We get asked a lot by people. What's your best wax you make me so many This is only a small selection of what we we make overall, but what's your best wax? So we always ask them well, what's what's important to you? Yeah, is it is it gloss is it durability is it ease of application and removal because that's a lot of people Especially with old-school carnuba waxes they tend to put them on a little too heavy Takes a long time to dry and you're busting your shoulder trying to get them off, but the best wax for each of us May be something a little different, but if you're looking for if we ask you What are you looking for and you tell us I want something that's super durable because my car sits outside 24-7 And I don't want to have to keep taking care of it We're probably gonna steer you to something like the new hybrid ceramic line Right just because of that that durability the durability factor right yeah, okay with clients that have a mix of cars Do any of them tell you? Can you make this car look like that when we get the finish looking like that or what did you do? Oh my gosh, this just looks amazing. Can you can you mix things up for me or whatever? Yeah, we have that question, but I always preference letting them know You know this is what it's gonna look like when it's finished or I'll even do a test spot for them And let them know you know so they can make that decision on their own You know cuz they're not out there killing cars and they don't have the experience that we all have right you know so So let's say I put this hybrid ceramic all over this 1911 Yeah, right and The constant the customer says oh wow looks great, but it just looks a little off Well, it's because How it reflects and how it it's too shiny. It's too shiny. It's never that car New back then they didn't yeah, it just doesn't flow properly everything needs to be consistent. Yeah, yeah, you know so when we look at Going back to the technology a little bit here right with with Carnoobo waxes I mean, it's not just Carnoobo wax that's in the can because you couldn't use it It would not be usable we blend in some other silicones and polymers So the polymers were a little bit like well the solvents are a given because that's the only way that we can Make the Carnoobo actually usable, but there's other silicones and later some polymers that were added to enhance other characteristics I mean some of it is to make the application and removal easier. Yep, so that you actually enjoy using the product because let's face it nobody's going to repurchase a product that's a complete pain to use so we want the user experience to be something positive as well but Technologically we removed into synthetic polymer sealants We've got a lot more control over what can be done What we can do or how those those polymers behave with this, but this SiO 2 thing this opens up a whole new World of what we can do doesn't it? Yeah, and and it's a good question I guess you're kind of starting to get into what? separates these products so we've talked a lot about you know a Carnoobo wax is gonna give you a particular look Not everybody's gonna see that you know you do need someone of a trained eye typically Some people will pick up on it without knowing that you know why but they they do see the nuances of the difference And if I get there's no right or wrong answer here either if you like the way this looks and your neighbor likes the way that looks You're both right. Yeah, because you get to pick and choose. It's your car. It's what you're doing Yeah, so yeah, so you're gonna have the cosmetic difference of how it looks when you go into the polymers The polymer products we really can fine tune quite a bit in terms of How much it darkens how much gloss there is is it more of just a straight almost like a saran wrap type Coating over the surface or does it have a little bit more of what you know People refer to as kind of the Carnoobo glow or somewhere in between But as we start getting into the newer stuff, it gets even more impressive Yeah, that's self-cleaning that we kind of talk about Takes it really to a whole new level For example putting hybrid ceramic on my own personal vehicles When they're parked outside getting dusty and then they get a coat of dew overnight I could drive into work and by the time I got there It would pull the wind would pull all that the dust and the pollen And that water right off the car and basically clean it for each of this self-cleaning You're probably not going to get that with an old school wax Not as much at least and the reason is We've put an incredible amount of science into engineering that difference in surface tension If Marcus finds it that much easier to take care of a car that's that's properly waxed and well maintained and would actually Charge a surcharge for a car to get The way you maintain your clients cars you got to have the easiest job in the world, man Well, I've taken a long time to get there, but yeah, it's been it's been it's really easy now You know, yeah in some respects until you get that guy to call you goes Hey, man, I got a recommendation for you and I want you to come down and clean up my escalade and Yeah, yeah, then you know you you go back into the toolbox and think okay What am I going to use what processes am I going to take so when you when you do get a new client or someone That's got a new vehicle or whatever Do you talk to them about choices in in protection when it I absolutely talk about choices and educate them as best I can some clients just say don't do what you think I just want it clean buttery smooth again. I want it to be shiny. Good Other clients they want to know hey Exactly how you know good is this going to look when I'm done Can you get these marks out? Can you get these bird droppings to go away? You know, it feels kind of rough Can you fix that? And then I explained to them how the process works what we do to get it off of there We are hearing So much chatter the last several years about paint coatings to the point where some people will tell you that if you are using a wax today You're crazy. You are so outdated paint coatings are making everything else on the table obsolete There's no reason for it. If you're a real pro you're applying coatings And you're only applying coatings Really, are you are you're dealing with people that have multi million dollar collections? Are they putting a paint coating on everything and if not, why not in my experience? No, my experience No, you got a lot of experience man. Well, and there are so many tools out there to to to provide This like we were talking about earlier. These all protect everything in different ways different longivities, but they also produce a different appearance and In the collections that we work that I work on that's a big deal And you can you can certainly make the argument that a coating is going to provide the best possible protection The highest degree out of out of these we won't argue against that in terms of things that can be applied onto the paint You know either liquids or or sprays That's certainly the case But then the next thing I'm guessing that you definitely go through when you're talking to that customer is Well, how do you plan on maintaining this one client may say well, you're the only one that's going to touch that And I know it's going to get taken care of appropriately every time And maybe it's a brand new McLaren or something to that effect then putting a coating on it and having someone like you maintain it Makes sense. Definitely. It definitely can make sense But if that's a an escalade that is going to be parked outside because there's no room in the garage And they're going to be taking it through the local tunnel car wash and then see you every six months to wax it Do you put a coating on that? Do you take the time? To put a coating on a car that's going to get brushed to death in a tunnel And still going to get swirls and scratches. Does that make sense that? In in my experience, it doesn't make sense. No does not does not does not but That's a double-edged sword. Yeah, because they need that protection. It's outside, right But if I'm not going to maintain it Then I'm going to let them know look we're going to have to repolish this We're going to have to maintain this coating as if it were paint right And you're going to spend all this extra money to get this coating, but on yes, it'll be protected. Yeah, and unbelievably So I always go to educate the client no matter what product we're using as long as they have all the information They can make an educated decision and then you got you know the price factor, you know comes back into the equation, right? So that's a big deal That's the amount of cost for I'm assuming if someone if you're going to build somebody to put A wax on a car as opposed to Putting a full coating on a car is a pretty different decent walk. There's a decent amount of difference there So value for a customer Could certainly vary and maybe their budget just frankly doesn't allow for it But that is why we've you know done hybrid ceramic and we've mixed In some of the hybrid ceramic items truly actual wax polymer technology And an sio2 ceramic base and put them all together But in a way that does not have the the crazy high cost but allows them to get Many of most of the benefits of a true coating, but without the cost and as much necessary prep. Sure. Sure Classic cars You mentioned with the way They originally looked they never had that like insane Gloss to them What about somebody that's got an older car and they're really using it a lot because I mean a lot of people They'll have a couple of you know, maybe a hot rod or something like that and they're taking it to a local cruise night They're not They're not daily driving it. It's not sitting outside You can say the same thing about somebody with an old packard, you know pre-war packard or pre-war Those cars never had that kind of look but there are people that are using those cars They do things like the california mule the colorado grand They're putting a thousand miles in a week on these cars and they're outside and It doesn't matter what the weather is I mean these guys they do the colorado grand and they're driving through snow and sleet and rain In a car that's worth five million dollars that was built 80 years ago. That's so cool. Do you want to put a coating on that car? Again in my experience I almost steer him away from putting on a coating on on this situation. Yeah Because there is durability in these non permanent products Okay, great durability So it's a good point. I would stir them away unless they absolutely request and say look I want the best thing that's gonna last the longest, you know up to bar none. Yeah Bar none. I gotta have this. Yeah, then I'll do it But the other reality is if you go to an event like that Pretty decent chance of of getting some kind of a damage in that process You know, even with a coating Coatings are not perfect. They're not impervious, you know, and so if you put something like Wax a sealant or a hybrid, you know, s2 based product You can go through that event go to that event it lasts a month or two Whatever they need to get there get home and then you can clean the whole car up protection Address those issues and then reapply. You know, so again, it's really a unique situation. So what's the best wax? What what do you what do you like? Is it the look? Is it the ease of application? Is it durability? How are you using the car? What do you really want out of it? How are you prepping the car before you? Apply it that has something to do with durability of any product that goes on there So there's a lot of different choices out there a lot of different ways to go. Yeah Yeah, even Other with you and all your clients dealing with other than what's the best wax There's another question probably second most common which is for the hardcore crowd What order do I put? Oh, jeez? Oh Great question What order do you put a car nuba and a sealant if you're going to do both? Let's you do not have to do both. I want to be very clear on that if you're using the sealant like Ultimate you do not need to put A car nuba on top of it or the other way they both are designed to do basically the same thing They just do it a little bit differently. What how do you address that? If if i'm going to stack Yeah, let's say either a client requested it and or you feel ambitious and you've got an open saturday afternoon And you want to put two coats? What are you what are you going to do? I will I will admit that I have I have done this in the past Well, because I because I Yeah, you gotta be a little car crazy to be working here, right? Yeah So we we all we all play around some interesting stuff I have been known to lay down ultimate paste And high-tech yellow on top of it and that's to get the durability of the synthetic sealant as a base And the look of and by the way M26 is a really pretty pure Yeah, and to get that on top, but I'll I'll do that based on color of the car But if if i'm going to do it i'm going to lay down The synthetic first and put the car nuba and just to go a little deeper I think what what what you're getting at there is you're putting the ultimate first because The idea is that's going to bond It's more durable and any longer term protection, but i'm going to get more of the look Of this this the 26 on top because the last thing you put on the paint is what's going to give you your final characteristics not Just an appearance, but also surface tension water beating characteristics. Ah and all of that now This is where you can best out so pay attention. Yes, that's where it gets tricky because if they want the surface tension Yes, so then you would I would do opposite. Yes, so there's the wild card, right, but again Depends on the client what they're looking for exactly depends on what right right, so that's the wild card is And some people think that you know, this is bible and that it is what it is synthetic first Carnoobus second and a discussion No, I would disagree and I would disagree for this reason But What is on top whatever the final product is whether you had a coating on the bottom? or Carnooba or whatever it is no matter what whatever is on top Is going to determine the surface tension and that surface tension is going to determine Slickness that's going to determine water beating and self-cleaning So from that perspective My personal preference is i'm going to put the hybrid ceramic on top Or a hybrid ceramic detailer or a hybrid ceramic spray wax or something like that and i'm going to personally Prefer that whatever gives me the highest contact angle last I've told people Since the introduction of this and the hybrid ceramic detailer If you absolutely adore gold class carnival plus you love the way that looks But you're itching to get that water beating Keep using that and then get the hybrid ceramic spray detailer And use that regularly You get really the best of both worlds that because as a detailer it's really not going to change the look that much But the water beating you get that crazy intensity. Yep, right? Not your customer should want that all day long. They do great solutions. They do I'm glad we finally answered the age old question of which comes first with multiple options and no definitive answer Whatever you want to do is really the right is is hey and we we hear we hear all kinds of of of Fun and interesting stories. It's probably the nicest way to put it. There's no right or wrong answer really to a lot of this other than Yes, this will last longer than this. Yes. Oh, yeah, this will clean better from this And that dates back to 73. So is the cleaner wax better? It's better at cleaning. Okay It's not as durable. So really it it comes down to it doesn't matter how many more generations of product We end up developing as long as the older stuff sticks around. What do you like? What's important to you? How much time are you willing to give your car go with what you like? Understand durability means you don't have to do that as often There's no right or wrong. We are available to talk to on social media We've got the phone number for our solutions hub phone numbers on the back of every bottle of product we make zoom in tight It's right back here And hold it up long enough you can go out to your garage grab a bottle of Maguire's product our phone numbers on there You can call the guys and find out Lots of stuff going on no right or wrong answer technology will keep marching forward Yes, but the beautiful thing about automotive appearance care is We let you keep all these options for the various generations of technology And I think we've probably confused people enough for one day, huh guys? I think we did a great job. It's done here. Yes Yeah, are you are you confused or did we clear it up for you clear as mud? Anyways, hope you got something out of this Uh lots of information that we threw at you a lot of different ways to get a hold of us on social media Our solutions hub give the guys a call Derek mark It's a pleasure for hanging out and uh shooting the breeze about waxes and sealants and paint coatings and Making your car look good no matter how old it is. Thanks guys. Thanks for watching and we'll catch you again next time