 This is Debbie Daschinger and welcome to Dare to Dream. Today's show is gonna be pretty cool because Matt LaCroix is here and he's an ancient civilizations expert, author and researcher at GAIA. From the secrets of the past to the nature of reality and the ancient gods of history, Matt is an endless pursuit of the truth. This is the Dare to Dream podcast. Recently won the COVR award for best radio and podcast show listed in Welp Magazine is one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to this year. Also nominated for People's Choice Award and a Webby Award. Thank you so much for all your support and by the way, subscribe like, I read all of your comments. I'm a media visibility expert out in the world and what that means specifically is I am a book writing coach. I help you write a highly engaging page turner book. I also have a company that takes authors books to a guaranteed international bestseller status. And the final leg of my visibility work is that I show you how to be interviewed on radio and podcasts and get massive results. So if you would like to do this, become more visible, get more exposure for your message, your business, your being, I have a gift for you and it's templates and videos to teach you how. Go to debbie-singer.com slash gift. It's D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R.com slash gift. And I think the sponsors of the show, Dr. Dane here and Access Consciousness for their energy work out in the world, you can become a facilitator or take their classes anywhere. Go to Dr. Dane here, H-E-E-R.com or accessconsciousness.com. I'm speaking today with Matt LaCroix and ancient civilizations expert author and researcher at Gaia, who's appeared on shows such as Ancient Civilizations, Open Minds and Beyond Belief. He's a frequent guest on numerous podcasts, radio shows and panel discussions and has just written, co-written his third major book with Billy Carson entitled The Epic of Humanity, which will focus on uncovering the mysteries of human origin story, the timeline of lost civilizations and ancient catastrophes. He also has an amazing YouTube channel you wanna check out. And if you wanna connect more with Matt, go to thestageoftime.com and soon he will be featured at the Conscious Life Expo. And if you wanna see him after today and seeing the show, I will also have a link so you can register in the show notes. And with that, I welcome Matt to the Dare to Dream show. Hey, it's so good to have you here. Hey, it's great to be here, Debbie. I'm looking forward to having a good conversation tonight. Yeah, so before we started, I was asking you a little bit about what is it like to work in Gaia? So, you know, for people out there and I know a lot of people who subscribe to Gaia and watch it, I know it's turned my life around, around certain subjects I became fascinated with and it really opened the doors for me. So for that, I'm very grateful. What is it like for you working there? I do feel very lucky. I am someone who did a lot of this as a hobby, you know, like a lot of other researchers who follow along this path. They wanna do it full-time, but, you know, that's not always a realistic thing or at least it takes time to get there. And for me, I was juggling a full-time job as doing like environmental science work, but I also was doing all the writing and the podcasts and all the shows. And it was honestly, it was a lot to juggle. And I really honestly, I put it out into the universe. I'm like, I wanna do something that I'm, I wanna do this as something full-time that I can commit all my energy to. And I was someone who really loved Gaia, especially ancient civilizations, the show. And it was, I did project the idea out into the universe and I fully encouraged people that concept of how we manifest our own reality and how you can put your positive intentions forward into something you truly want. And I was able to that sort of worked out, I guess you could say in my favor and I'll get to do some really cool stuff there, writing and researching top shows as well as being in them as a talent. So it's a really amazing dream come true to be able to do what you love. So I feel really honored to be part of that. And of course you mentioned that led to things like you and going to Conscious Life Expo and in a lot of other really incredible things. Yeah, sorry, we have some dogs that just went nuts. Clearly it's mailman time, so forgive me for that. They will guide, they'll quiet down or they're very excited that you're here on the show. And it's interesting what you just said Matt because after college, I know you began studying ancient civilizations, philosophy, quantum mechanics, fascinating any history. And then that evolves into your focus today. And here you are uncovering these disappeared and desiterate teachings from secret societies from ancient cultures. So I'm curious what ancient texts, what lost civilizations, what evidence have you discovered along the way that absolutely changed the trajectory of your life? Well, I wanna just bring up this concept right now that a lot of people are sharing and you're seeing a lot on the social media. I wanna just give an example of this. Graham Hancock just did, has his new show came out on Netflix, Ancient Apocalypse. And he's getting attacked by mainstream media from across the entire spectrum because of this concept that putting forth the idea that there have been lost civilizations, not primitive civilizations, but civilizations that were highly sophisticated in many ways. And once existed in our past were wiped out and disappeared and then we basically had to reset and start over again. Now that concept, and I guess you could call that theory is not accepted at all by the mainstream. And that whole concept of our history, if you were to look back, if you were to look back at what our history states in books, history books, you go to school, you learn a certain doctrine, this narrative of history where, well look, human civilizations were pretty primitive, hunter-gatherers and they sort of gather together and then they rose up to eventually have the ancient Sumerians in Mesopotamia and then the Egyptians. And then later on through the Persians and Greeks, right? This is this narrative that we're taught and where this is very tight window of saying that, look, civilizations emerging, developing agriculture and metallurgy and animal husbandry. This only started 6,000 years ago and started in ancient Sumer in which today I rack. Now that entire story is essentially right and wrong. There was a chapter of human civilizations that reemerged during that time. Then that's something that is absolutely true, but there's also been other chapters that have happened before that, other chapters that existed in our story that have been lost and we truly forgot about them almost entirely to the fact that now, like for instance, a concept like Atlantis is like considered a myth. And I find it to be remarkable that something like that is considered a myth. When someone actually goes to study where that story came from, they find out that it actually had nothing to do with Plato creating like an analogy or some kind of a story to discuss like a perfect civilization versus a non-perfect civilization. He got all that information from ancient Egypt and in ancient Egypt, they recorded that lost story of the past. And so the more we look into taking down, I guess the control of almost like of our mindsets to be able to be open-minded, to accept the idea that there's so much more to our story, then we're able to then take these pieces of evidence all around the world. It's becoming almost insurmountable. The amount of stuff that has now come out, if you were to try to look for evidence of these lost civilizations or lost civilization, depending on if you wanted to look at the fact that they were closely connected in many ways, is that our story is clearly far more complicated than we're taught. Now I take this to another level, then people like Graham Hancock and others really, really discussed the idea that there was like a cosmic impact that occurred around 12,000, 13,000 years ago that was the cause of wiping those civilizations out. Now I have an alternative theory that I take down a different path, but based essentially to answer your question, it was something that I just fell backwards into without expecting to this research just sort of came into my life. And I've always been incredibly inquisitive about, you know, when I was a kid, look seeing movies and other depictions of like ancient civilizations like lost in the jungle, that civilization was once there and then all that's left is like the remnants of that. That concept was just embedded in me. And then along the way, when I became familiar with work like Robert Temple and Graham Hancock and others, it truly put me on this path of wanting to research and discuss this and write about it. And so here we are today. It's become truly like the greatest passion of my life. So interesting because you say, and I know you're being politically correct by saying the theory, but you know, when I'm listening to you, I'm thinking that it's really myth, isn't it? It's myth that's been ingrained in so many people that they believe this is where we came from. This is what the earth looked like and so forth. When in fact, all of that's blown apart. First of all, when it comes to Lemuria, when it comes to Atlantis, people remember past lives. Many of us are back again because we really screwed up, right? And we promise we're gonna get it right this time. So there's that. And then there's the inception of the planet where humanity came from. And we had one myth we were taught when in fact, many of us today who are open, who are metaphysical are just the downloads are tremendous. The information is clear. We are not from this planet, right? We're an amalgam of part human, but also part Pleiadian, Arcturian, et cetera, reptilian. Like we're a lot of different things really in our DNA. Some of it jumped DNA. So many of us know this truth and we don't even adhere to that myth. And when I hear you say this that's what I'm thinking is that it's the same. We were taught very specifically about civilizations when in fact you and others have uncovered truth really about the inception of civilizations. And so I wanna ask you because if these highly advanced civilizations you're talking about were destroyed by global catastrophes and they included these megalith structures and pyramids that defy even the capabilities today. And then they mysteriously disappear, right? At the height of their sophistication. What about these outstanding earth catastrophes? What about the lost civilizations? Is there any one in particular you can talk about? Well, there's so many areas we could go with that question because when we think about you brought up Lemuria Mu, right? This civilization that has evidence of existing in the Pacific whereas its counterpart Atlantis existed in the Atlantic. But that was just part of the story. It goes so much greater than that because it incorporates civilizations like those in Mexico and South America. Those in Egypt, those in Southeast Asia right around the Mediterranean even into ancient Mesopotamia. It seems that we're finding evidence that all these civilizations were connected in different ways. Just like today where we have a world that's connected through influences of other places and the technology sort of spreads around the world that same type of concept seem to have existed back way back in antiquity with these civilizations and you brought up star system constellations and other potential beings in the universe. We seem to be something far greater than we're told. And I think that's really the biggest reason why this entire narrative seems to be guarded is because when you look into those civilizations you find out, look, they weren't materialistic. They weren't focusing on money and on going shopping. They were putting all of their energy in creating these massive megalithic temples and these pyramid structures that were aligned perfectly with star constellations when the energies of the earth and they seem to understand this lost concept that we don't have much of an understanding of anymore. And that is that we are highly conscious energetic beings of the universe that are incredibly powerful that have the ability to manifest reality and create all of these incredible things but these gifts that we have have largely been lost within us. They're sort of like an echo of our former self and those civilizations have the evidence of their understanding of that woven into all of their structures. So the more we look at them and the more we're able to differentiate between those ancient lost civilizations and then the civilizations that came later that's the hardest thing that I think people need to wrap their heads around because not everybody has studied geology for 30 years. Not everybody has studied climatology but when you actually look at these structures you'll see fine precision work these giant perfectly created blocks megalithic blocks often on the lower most levels and then something above it is much, much more primitive and what we're seeing is that, look there have been civilizations that have come and gone and other civilizations came to these sacred places that they built and they built right on top of them. So it becomes very convenient if you were to wanna hide this kind of a message or bury it in a narrative you would say, look the civilization that built on top they're the ones who built the rest of it too. And I always, I give this example every time but it's just to me it's a really good example is if I walk down the street and I go to like a statue or some stone library or whatever and I spray paint or write my name in the wall and then they were able to like come back for some reason something happened and they found that and they found my name does that mean I built it? Does that mean that I was the one who was responsible for creating it? And I think that's what we need to focus on here is that our history is incredibly complex and just because a civilization has evidence of being more primitive later on there doesn't mean that we completely ignore the older concepts of what was there originally. So like, and I'm gonna give you an example as a place called Balbeck Lebanon that is just east of the Mediterranean sort of near Israel and the country of Lebanon is right sort of smack in between ancient Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean. And in this, in that site we have some of the largest blocks in the world that we have no idea how the civilization moved them into place, but the problem is that thousands of years after they disappeared the Roman Empire conquered that region and then they built right on top of it. And so we're told that the Romans built it and that's the issue is that not only do they not have the technical sophistication to be able to move those but they would not have had the understanding or even the reasoning to why to create those. In fact, we don't even fully know what some of the purposes of these structures are that are leftover, but clearly there's this entire chapter that includes Atlantis and ancient Lemuria Mu that has been wiped out and so such an enormous amount of time has gone by. I think it's a quote from, I think Gandalf says it like in Lord of the Rings, right? Isn't it like an ancient, I'm gonna butcher this but it's like an ancient story that's so old that eventually becomes a myth and then a legend and then it just, and people don't believe it any longer because so much time goes by that they consider it to be not real anymore. That's why we need to look at a lot of the ancient myths, the ancient Egyptian, Greek myths, ancient Sumerian myths and then put them alongside some of these ancient tablets that are leftover, ancient writings and ancient stories that tell us something that we're not listening to. We're not listening to the fact that there has been an incredible chapter of our history that has been almost entirely wiped out and there's only these fragmented pieces left behind. So we're like almost like putting together a puzzle with just like a few pieces with a lot of things missing and we're trying to see what it should look like but we don't have all the pieces, we just have like bits and pieces of it to put back together. Has anybody ever gone out to the site in Lebanon with really sophisticated equipment and done tests to find out the nature of what things are made of or if there's any activity going on that can't be maybe seen or heard with the human body? One of the issues here that we're really dealing with is that there's a very controlled system of information within mainstream archeology. Mainstream archeology has essentially prevented a lot of these places from being fully investigated the way they should. And I am someone who champions certain sites around the world that have been deliberately abandoned and ignored for various reasons related to what I'm saying to you right now. One of them that's a great example is the city of Eridu. It's in ancient Mesopotamia. That's a city that according to the tablets was the first city ever created, ever in the world. And yet that site has only been a tiny bit excavated in the main part of the city. And in the part of the temple where most of the ancient records are from that is discussed in all kinds of tablets is basically completely ignored. And I've done the research into that to see that, look, the University of Oxford and Iraqi Museum, they investigated that and did some digging around up until 1946, 1948. And they literally abandoned the site and they have not been back since and it's being looted and destroyed. And this is the same narrative we're finding in a lot of places around the world where a place like Gobekli Tepe in Turkey that is like this huge astronomical temple mapping the heavens has only been 5% excavated. And yet it's been radiocarbon dated to be almost 12,000 years old. So essentially it's already doubled the age of any civilization that's supposed to have the capabilities to create those things. Now, I wanna mention or answer one of the things that you brought up about is about the types of stones they were using. What was the purpose behind them? What's amazing is that we're finding that most of these giant megaliths are created with granite. Now granite is one of the hardest materials that we have on the planet for people who maybe aren't familiar with things like the most hardness scale. If we have a civilization that supposedly is created that in our history books and they were using things like bronze age tools, which is what we're told was the most sophisticated that those civilizations could have gotten. The problem is the most hardness scale argues that look granite is harder than if you had bronze. You can't manipulate something harder than the tools you're working with. So we're seeing perfectly round drill holes. We're seeing some marks all throughout places like in Egypt and drill holes all throughout South America and Turkey. We're seeing this precision cutting in places like Pumabunku and Tiwanaku and Bolivia in South America that defines all logic. Made out of something called andesite that's even harder than granite. We have no idea how those civilizations created that. We don't even fully know why they created that but the consensus that a lot of researchers like myself are really honing in on is the idea that these civilizations seem to be using high quartz, high quartz silica rock for some kind of an energetic purpose to create these giant structures for either higher consciousness, maybe to create some kind of a portal or something for reaching higher states of consciousness and energy but maybe even some kind of a mechanism for like a doorway because we find near these sites these giant false doorways that seem to go nowhere that are just carved out of the rock. So our concept and an idea that, there may be civilizations that came from somewhere else in the universe that maybe incorporating concepts that are different than some might think. Let's think more of using technologies with like a gateway in my opinion than maybe like a ship. Perhaps some kind of a mechanism for traveling between different worlds. And that's becoming more and more of a possibility the more we look around the world. Yeah, and what's beautiful, when you talk about granite, granite is a great healing stone and granite specifically grounds. So if people have problems and they feel ungrounded or not quite in their bodies or maybe there's a lot going on, there's a lack of focus, you can literally hold or work with granite. It will give you immediate presence. So it's very interesting. I mean, I was getting downloads while you were talking absolutely that there were energetics going on in these sites. That's fascinating. That's really fascinating. I appreciate the examples you gave. You also, I know in your research in these lost civilizations that there's all this history left behind, right? There's ancient writings and they speak of these devastating floods and earth changes that occur on a cyclical basis. So what about that evidence? Is there evidence that actually shows what caused these cyclical events? So that's the one thing that's echoed anywhere we have ancient writings or even indigenous stories that have been carried down from older civilizations into some groups like in the Amazon and South America and Mexico and other places, is they discuss a much older time period when their ancestors were highly sophisticated that where they existed in different pockets around the world simultaneously like we find today with more primitive civilizations. Now, the ironic thing is that the civilizations that were more primitive living off the land were the ones that actually were able to survive which makes sense because they were able to get through really difficult time periods when others could not. And I think that that's something we should remember today is that with all of our sophistication and technology if one of these events were to occur, would we make it? And I think that's the most important message to come across but so what we find is that these civilizations that had existed at that time period they left behind ancient records in some cases some places those records were lost but in places like ancient Sumer what I'm finding when I actually study that it's one of the areas that I've spent most of my time studying is the ancient Mesopotamian area connecting over to places like- You actually speak Sumerian or can you read it? I'm learning how to read Sumerian but it's certainly taking a long time it's an extremely complicated language it's a language that's been that has died out and nobody knew how to speak or write it up until around 1875 when George Smith cracked the code but prior to him, Sumerian had been a dead language for well over a thousand years. So we're talking about a language that is a language isolate that doesn't share any other language components and this was a language that was left behind from a civilization that seemed to have and this is the critical thing different epics that have occurred, okay? So the area around like I mentioned Eridu and ancient Mesopotamia I have gone through the records that actually speak of this that talk about how there have been at least three different epics when those civilizations in that region have risen up, fallen, risen and fallen and we know that because they left behind the only form of writing that can actually survive enormous amounts of time people think paper is this highly sophisticated thing let alone digital stuff that just disappears right away but paper can only last 500 to 1,000 years in perfect conditions. So the only way that we understand it currently and I have another theory on how there could be another form of writing that we haven't fully understood yet but the oldest form of writing that we can actually read and understand now is the ancient Sumerian cuneiform. Now cuneiform is the type of wedged in writing that is either in clay or stone which means that it's written into the stone and clay so that when even if the surface sort of weathers because it's wedged into the stone or clay it can survive for an enormous amount of time. How deep when you say it's wedged into the stone how deep are we talking? It's wedged in a centimeter or so but it's far enough in where you could have a significant amount of weathering that could allow it to survive but regardless of that, besides the fact that it's wedged in it's on either fired clay, hardened clay or even stone in some cases which lasts tremendously long compared to paper. So some of the stories that have been carried down that we can mainstream archeologists have tailored or considered a myth. They're something that's carried down from multiple civilizations who have written down these stories that have carried down from the Sumerians all the different versions of them to the Acadians and the Babylonians and they have taken what is earlier stories and then recorded them and protected them in these ancient libraries that are so old like the Ashurbanapal Library or the newer library that was discovered in Ebulus, Syria and that civilization, these ancient libraries are so old that they are basically the remnants of civilizations that went out and found the tablets that had already been ancient accumulated in the libraries and then those civilizations disappeared as well. So it's something that's being carried down from truly ancient times and they speak of how there have been these series of catastrophes that have occurred and that civilization had to be re-lowered they say from heaven. Kingship re-lowered in heaven with cities that had to be recreated again after these they called the Great Deluge which it's not just from a potentially like a tsunami flood but there's other things that may have come along with that but the flood is how they usually describe it because every one of these events seems to have ended in massive tsunamis and I think that's where this I think this inherent memory that exists within us for these catastrophes seem to occur and it's strange the more that I like research and read about this the more that you almost feel like you have these like glimpses of like something seems like when you're reading these like there's this element of truth that's like within us you're like that makes sense I don't know why I know that or why that seems like something that is almost like I'm remembering because these things have happened so much that they're embedded deep within us and I think that what's fascinating that people need to understand is that they describe how each time the civilization had to be restarted but at some point after several restarts occurred the influences behind helping those restarts disappeared and we became we went back to having to almost become primitive again so imagine civilizations rise up to this highly sophisticated level and then they fall and they try to rise up again and they try to rebuild and another catastrophe occurs and then every time they fall more and more is lost till eventually they become primitive and now these ancient tablets there's thousands of them that I study but what I essentially do is I have a lot of people ask me well, how do you know what they're translating is accurate? We have some of the best experts in the world that have looked at this like George Smith in my opinion is the greatest pioneer in this who over the years have had other experts come in and do their own translations that verify with his so I'll compare multiple different versions of a translation and find the common message and then say, look, these are the best experts let's take these translations and let's find out the ones that are the most credible and then let's cross reference all these stories and the try to recreate our story based on everything we can and that's one of the things that I pride myself on the new book we just released with Billy Carson The Epic of Humanity has the most amount of ancient translations embedded in it from Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian to ancient Egyptian and ancient Greek and other stories when we're talking about this story our story, our epic, I always include the most important pieces of these texts so that people can go and read it for themselves rather than just having someone say something it's another thing if you're able to go in and read it for yourself and like, wow that's like a phenomenal way that they were so smart in how they wrote and everything had like symbolic meaning and how the same information that's maybe in one tablet is present in like another tablet from later civilizations but the same type of information correlates so we need to start paying attention to this because these stories, they're all that we have left and they're part of us and they're telling us look, we have an incredible story that is so much more sophisticated that leads us to an understanding that tells us who we really are tells us how sophisticated we once were and how connected we were to the stars in the universe and we've forgotten that and we're trying to find our way back to that and that's something that I'm trying to help recreate. Wow, I have goosebumps while you're talking it's incredible listening to all this, so many questions first of all, where is Sanskrit in all of this timeline wise? Sanskrit is also an ancient writing that came out of the Hindu region of India which all we have to do is if you go look at India like Konhari caves or Alora caves or all these ancient temples, Barabara hill we have a different kind of construction but similarities in how highly sophisticated these temples are in that region telling us look those stories that they're telling us in ancient Sanskrit writings they're from the same time period so what we're seeing is that part of the world is part of what I call the lost civilizations that once existed around the world those have similarities with a lot of Southeast Asia and what I believe is that that region was the influences that are left behind of the Muriamu civilization because they had a very different style of building they had a very different style altogether and the way that they described the ancient stories they talked about the same things that are echoed all throughout ancient Mesopotamia with these like almost like sky gods these advanced beings that seem to be very similar to us in a lot of ways which is what the whole purpose of this understanding is that we essentially are them and I think that's where the message should get across is that there have been influences that have come here that have given rise to humanity from a sort of a primitive mammal blueprint that seems to have existed where and if we look at genetics there's a brilliant geneticist who's no longer around anymore named Loya Pai who said, look, if we look at 200,000 years ago there seemed to be this point in time where our brains doubled in size out of nowhere and we developed all these different sophistications this chakra center within us and all these things that wasn't there before and we became something different all of a sudden we became like this a higher dimensional sentient being that existed here and we used to live a long time and all these different things and we've forgotten that over time and I think that's one of the saddest things is looking at how people view reality and what they spend their time doing now it's very sad because all the ancient texts and all the ancient writings and everything left behind says, look you're an incredible being of the universe you know, this is what you should be doing and then you look at what we are doing and you begin to wonder if, you know part of the purpose of hiding all of that is that we don't realize who we are because I think then we'll realize how powerful we are I've heard this before I know everything, right? It'll change everyone's perspective of reality here so so many people ask well, what's the purpose of hiding all this? What's the purpose of blah, blah, blah I don't believe in conspiracies or all these things is we need to say, look we are so much more incredible than we've been told and there's a reason why in school we're told that consciousness is derived from the brain which is not true at all is that we are our consciousness it's more like we're in like an avatar body experiencing a physical reality but we're really non-physical beings that are incredibly powerful and we're here to experience this world that we're existing in but we have had a lot of very clever mechanisms that have kept us almost entrapped in this illusion of reality the Naqamadi talks about that the Naqamadi is an ancient Gnostic writing that came out of Egypt and that was found in a cave along the Nile River during World War II because they had to hide it because these ancient writings around the world were being sought for destruction by the Roman Empire and other various empires who have wanted to wipe out this story so that it's not known so they can rewrite the story and so what we're dealing with is a very complex history of us trying to piece together the remnants of these incredible civilizations around us and how they were once connected to the stars in the universe and how we can find our way home I love that, I love that and is there a reason for the pattern? Why floods? Why tsunamis? Why is that a way that would wipe out a culture? Do you have a sense from your research that actually these beings had a way maybe using the portals to exit the planet before? Something catastrophic happened or did they remain and be taken away with the civilization? Yeah, that's an area that's fascinating there's a tablet called that that a lot of people are very familiar but few have ever actually read it called the Epic of Gilgamesh Now in that is an area that I've never heard anyone talk about and I don't know why but in those tablets because these are long tablets so if you don't know where to look it's difficult to figure out what to pay attention to and things like that I'm about what I'm about to say are things that I like to inject and put into like the Epic of Humanity so that people have like these pieces that I consider the most important parts of all these texts anyway in that Gilgamesh is a king of the city of Iraq which is funny because Iraq was a real city that existed and yet we're told that he was just a mythical king that wasn't real and yet the city that he's mentioned we've already found the city and it exists in Iraq today so it states that he went on this journey to find immortality and in that story it says that he met with an ancient king who was no longer alive in the physical world anymore but this ancient king turns out to be this figure known as Untanapishtim who was this last king of these ancient cities that was destroyed before the catastrophes, okay and he says, look Gilgamesh where I come from long ago is an ancient city so old to you that it's almost been lost to your memory as well and this is something that the time period of Gilgamesh existing was lost also so this is like we're going back multiple chapters but he states something fascinating in there he states that he talks about how the gods here not the forces of nature but something more powerful than that these influences here they said that gods once walked among you in that among us in that city when it existed and he says that when the deluge occurred they were so appalled by allowing that to happen that they departed and left and they never and they says that it states that they basically disappeared from here now what's interesting about that is there's other tablets like the Audra cases as well as well that discuss how there's this council of 12 of these powerful beings that seem to decide the fates of humanity and they describe how there's a cycle that occurs with these catastrophes that they can essentially either create or allow to happen now why would they wanna do that? Well they discuss in it how humanities had different time periods where they've risen up to become so powerful that they were like immortal and that all these different things and that they were essentially wiped out for a reason to start over again like it's a game like some kind of a cosmic game to see if you're wiped out if can you rise back up again and how far can you go in like a certain time period? It seems to be this almost like beyond our comprehension game that's being played in the cosmos where these cyclical events seem to be something that happens to almost reset and then civilizations come rise up again and then it seems to be like a game to them and they write about how they observe humanity and they watch as these events occur and they decide the fates of those who were here. Now they describe it like for instance when Plato found out the story of Atlantis it came from Solon who is another Greek philosopher that was much a Greek philosopher and poet that was much older than Plato who had traveled to Egypt and had found out the story from the temple priest of a temple called Sace and they said, look Solon you Greeks remember one catastrophe but there have been many that have come before you and what we will be find is you start putting this together and someone like me I'm someone who studies climatology and ice core samples we're looking at ice core samples from Greenland and Antarctica and we're looking back and we're saying look at this this time period of 12 and a half thousand years ago there was catastrophes in these ice core samples that lines up precisely with the dating that's coming out of places like Gobekli Tepe. Now Gobekli Tepe in Turkey was radiocarbon dated to be from that same time period but was deliberately buried to almost to protect it as that civilization fled to try to survive the events that came over that area it was never dug up again meaning that the civilizations that created that celestial library they were tracking the heavens to track time that civilization went to try to survive and catastrophes probably underground in places like Derin Kuyu in Turkey these underground cities but they never survived we know that because they never dug it back up again which means that these civilizations in many cases tried to make it through but they didn't and what it's telling us is look these catastrophes are nothing like we've experienced in modern human history nothing they're not even on the same level and what we're finding is that on megaliths around the world in Peru and in Egypt all throughout these areas we're finding these burn marks in these melting of the rock there's a famous set of gigantic statues the largest in the world called the Colossia Memnon in Egypt outside Theban Egypt and that area has all this damage on these giant structures where they're cracked and broken in half and on the Colossia Memnon what we have is on the same side on either statue is like this burning and melting on the northeast side on both of them and if we go around the world at the same time we find out that a lot of these ancient structures that have been built to be aligned to magnetic north are off by 23 and a half degrees almost everywhere in the world all these ancient sites that are aligned to like magnetic north and all these things in the Colossia Memnon they all not only have damage on one side on particular side but they're all off which those civil issues didn't make mistakes they're all off by north by 23 and a half degrees meaning that this event that occurred was so significant it altered the axis of the planet because it means that it was built when north was in a different place but not only that is the damage on those structures is so severe that it had to have been caused by something that is almost like at a Hollywood for instance, structures were made out of granite in order to melt granite in the way that we see some of these the melting of vitrification it's called you would have to have temperatures in some parts of the planet that would have had to exceed 2000 degrees what we're finding is that it's a multitude of different catastrophes that seem to have come through that was so incredible that it lasted for thousands of years off and on so if you were an incredible civilization and even if you had the abilities to survive hundreds of years through these try to imagine the earth being in turmoil for up and down over the course of hundreds of years where another catastrophe would occur for over 2000 years now that would be enough to wipe them out allow their memory to almost be lost and then another civilization to come through that had survived like an indigenous culture and find the remnants of them left behind and that's why all the structures around the world especially in places like Machu Picchu in a lot of Egypt is we find this really primitive building on top with these really with mortar and these really rough stones but all these incredible giant blocks in the bottom because they're from different civilizations yes this is so beautiful oh my gosh so I'm getting excited because I literally wrote down here while you were speaking energetically I got indigenous ask him about indigenous and the shamans because my sense as you were speaking honestly just energetics not intellectual but the fact that these very advanced civilizations that they born they gave birth to the indigenous of course we've discarded disgustingly through most of humanity but are actually the bearers of this intelligence this knowledge and this advancement yes okay yeah there are all that was left behind you know some of these elders and these priests and these shamans from these cultures they passed these stories down they didn't have the means to be able to create what those civilizations before them did but they had the knowledge that was passing down that's why stories that really got me into this like the ancient Dogen out of Mali Africa their stories where they talk about these influences of the Nomo which their descriptions of the Nomo are almost identical to an ancient Mesopotamia the Nomo with the Apkalu and these fish like suit beings that they discuss it how well look our story the Dogen discussing serious star system discovering like three stars in the serious constellation two of which we've only just discovered the second one and they already knew about all these things that story though was only able to be preserved because their elders decided to hide themselves away and not be polluted by any outside messages and this is why they were able to to bring back such an ancient story because it's very difficult to preserve ancient stories that don't get polluted or lost if something terrible happens to those people that know those stories and that's why we need to start paying attention to what's left over in these ancient tablets and these stories left behind from the indigenous because they're the ones who know the true story and they know who we really are. Yes, totally 100% which is so beautiful plant medicine making its rebirth its renaissance on this planet for the indigenous I think it's incredible that they would even say that Western man woman are gonna be the bearers of this going forward, which is like that's incredible considering what we've done. So powerful, powerful, you must travel so much, Matt. Have you been many, many places in the planet? We are, I've done a lot of ancient structures in temples in Mexico and I've traveled a lot of other parts of the world. We actually just had a trip to Peru and Bolivia that was canceled for a couple of unfortunate reasons but it's gonna be rescheduled for the summer but I'm hoping to get to as many ancient sites as I can and look with the amount of technology we have today even if you can't get to this ancient site with the amount of incredible 360 degree pictures and all this satellite imagery and photography you can still study these ancient sites even if you aren't there but my goal is to get to as many as I can because the ancient world is a fascination for me and I'm trying to be a self-taught archeologist so I would love to be able to get out to every single site I can in the world in the future. That's beautiful. And then there's also the pioneer probes, right? They've made really incredible discoveries. Yeah, and we haven't even talked about the reasons behind some of these catastrophes. So as I talked about earlier in the show I am not someone that supports purely a cosmic impact theory to talk about or to describe the reasons for these cyclical catastrophes. Number one, I cite the idea that, look we don't have any impact craters around the world that are younger than 13,000 years old. So, and then someone say, okay they could have hit the ice caps. Yes, that's entirely possible. But I like to mention a great name, a geologist named Robert Shock. Yes, he's been on this show. Yeah, we love him. He's brilliant. If when we look into this vitrification and burning on some of these structures when we look into the ancient plasma in the sky that some of these ancient cultures were drawing when they saw some of these events well, I think we're looking at here the more that I've studied it is that we're looking at massive solar events that if you had a solar event that occurred on the earth that was significant enough to basically disrupt what's called the magnetic spheres basically the magnetic poles balance and create what we know as the ozone layer on the world. It creates this electromagnetism that basically blocks these incoming solar rays and protects our planet. If you were to have massive charged particles from the sun hit bombard the earth enough and you caused a weakening of that field those charged particles could pass through the earth in certain places and which would cause a whole host of different problems. Not only that extreme temperature gradients but climate disruptions you would have massive spikes in temperatures melting ice caps, disrupting ocean currents and creating basically once that axis tilt of the earth is wobbling and moving every tectonic plate in the world would go off sending tsunamis and it's like an end of the world scenario but the more that I've studied the more that I've taken it a step further I don't believe that it's just random solar events I believe it's part of a cyclical cycle that's occurring with our sun with what I believe is a binary companion that has almost been lost to our knowledge. I know that might seem crazy to some people because I mean, how could we not know if we have a binary star companion? But the fact is that we have compelling data that shows us that way beyond the inner solar system beyond the sun, we have this outer area of asteroids and comets called the Kuiper Belt which by the way was only discovered in the 1990s. This is basically this area of massive area of asteroids and comets that surrounds the inner solar system but beyond that area is there's other things out there but we can't see them because they're not illuminated and so it's very difficult for us to understand what's going on beyond that. Now, this is where the Pioneer probes come in for those who don't know, Pioneer 10 was the first spacecraft to ever travel beyond Mars and Jupiter. Okay, everyone's heard of the Voyager probe. Why is nobody talking about the Pioneer probes, right? Pioneer probes predated the Voyager probes. This was where it all started. Now, the Pioneer 10 and 11 were sent out by NASA in 1971, 1972 because they were wondering why our entire solar system was tilted on its axis. Uranus and Neptune and even the inner planets were slightly tilted on their axis and they didn't know why. Furthermore, Caltech University began studying asteroids and comets in the Kuiper Belt and notice this very strange perihelion look to them as they're traveling where something is perturbing our entire solar system, okay? Now, when Pioneer 10 finally went into the outer solar system in 1980, 1983, it discovered these objects out there because it had sensors on board to detect gravity and detect basically signatures from when some kind of a mass exists out in space. And they found which NASA announced in the early 1990s that they had found a planet, a very large rogue planet that existed beyond the Kuiper Belt that they had initially talked about but very much covered up later that they said was four to five times the size of Earth. So it's a very significant planet that was existing out there. But what happened after that was that as Pioneer 10 is traveling, it discovered something else. And for anyone who doesn't believe me when I'm saying right now, I highly encourage you to go on my website, thestageoftime.com, where I have a diagram that was made in by the 1987 Science and Invention Encyclopedia that actually talked about and discussed exactly what Pioneer 10 found. Are you suggesting that the Sun has a binary twin? It does. It does. And this is what Pioneer found. Now, after Pioneer 10 discovered this binary companion, I mean, so far out that we can't even see it because it's basically, they called it a dead star. Now, this is not my terminology. This was from the diagram for the 1987 Science and Invention Encyclopedia. And it's the only place that I've ever seen, ever, where the findings of Pioneer 10 have ever been disclosed. It is one of the greatest conspiracies, if not the greatest conspiracy that I've ever seen in my life. Because what happened was that it discovered the cause for what I call the cyclical catastrophes of lost civilizations throughout history. I believe that this binary companion is the cause of why the Sun goes through these periods of emitting enormous amounts of charged particles, solar energy, which happens on a cyclical basis, and is also the reason why ice ages seem to occur around every 100,000 years on the planet. We're talking about a complex cycle that seems to occur with a binary companion that in 1983 was 50 billion miles away. So this is not something where it's this close relationship. Just imagine an ancient star companion that millions and millions of years ago exploded, okay? Exploded and became a dead star. And that's what the Pioneer 10 probe discovered, because it can basically take signatures from it. So you're saying that they discovered a dead Sun? Yes. It's a binary twin. And that, so essentially you're saying at one point that there were two Suns that were orbiting around a common center of mass, right? Gravitational, they're bound to each other. Yes. And at some point there's even a catastrophe that took out that twin Sun and created it to be dead. Exactly, and the thing is though that it's their perihelion orbits, their orbits are so enormous that we don't even fully know the amount of time it takes. But I've been doing a lot of calculations and a lot of work to try to figure out the orbital track of this binary star. But essentially I theorized that that explosion of that binary companion may have even been what wiped out the dinosaur 65 million years ago. And it would have had to happen in a past called apihelion, meaning that it would have had to be the farthest away that it travels to explode, because if it had done it closer to our solar system, it would have destroyed the entire solar system. So we're talking about ancient catastrophes that go back far, far, farther than most people ever realized, where this cycle has existed, which is why the earth goes through these cycles continuously. I've looked at Vostok Antarctica ice cores that go back 450,000 years and analyze them. And we're seeing a continuous evolution of ice ages that develop with ice caps in the Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere that always mimic an exact melting around every 100,000 years almost precisely on a basis almost every time. And then the earth rapidly warms up, goes through periods of stabilization before rapidly getting colder again and going through these cycles. Showing us that this cycle, this set of cycles on the earth has been happening now for at least half a million years. So 85% of stars are binary, not all, right? Yeah, they bring it up, yep. Yeah, and the changes you're talking about, it's interesting because I've heard this in regards to climate change. Is there really a climate change? Are we going through these cycles that have been going on ad infinitum? And so what you're referring to, is it actually affecting us today? Does it have something to do with the current changes related to this cycle? Yeah, I think that's the entire reason why the pioneer 10 data was scrubbed. And I mean scrubbed everywhere. You can't, I encourage people to go look into what the pioneer 10 probe found. And you're talking to be specific, so you say NASA Caltech, you're saying JPL, Jet Propulsion Laboratory? Is it one? Well, that's the interesting thing is that Caltech, and I've reached out to some people at Caltech with no answer back. But they have done independent studies on the Kuiper Belt to determine that, yes, there's a planet that exists beyond the Kuiper Belt that's influencing gravitationally. They've acknowledged that, they call it planet nine. And that's one of the areas that I've done research on. This planet is a planetary companion of the dead star, okay? That's the, so they've acknowledged that there's a planetary companion. Think about it though, why would you have a planet like that just roaming around with no reason at all, influencing periodically the Kuiper Belt unless it has a host that it's revolving around? There's a dance going on in our solar system that's an enormous dance between the binary star, this planet, that's I believe the cause of the procession of the equinox on Earth. And why we seem to face different constellations every 2,100 years. They seem to all be related. Amazing stuff, amazing stuff. I've got a quote from one of your books about the ancient texts. And the quote is, the only reason you're able to read these words now not be at risk of torture being burned at the stake is due to certain laws and freedoms that were finally enacted which have temporarily allowed this control system to lose its grip here. That's why this particular time period is so important. So talk about that, about why the oldest texts became suppressed, why they became hidden for most of society. Even you're talking about things being scrubbed which actually could have great influence and power in the knowledge. Yeah, essentially you can trace that back to the transition of the Roman Empire into the Holy Roman Empire with Constantine. So Constantine, that occurred in a place called Constantinople, which is in modern day Turkey. And that transition went from Constantine and various other handlers and people that were involved in that realized that they could control the entire narrative. They could control the history of our past as well as religion and understanding our spiritual connection. If they were able to take over the entire message and essentially wiped out the ancient writings from the past. They were traveling around and destroying libraries and destroying groups around the world. They were protecting this ancient knowledge. That's why the Nag Hammadi was hidden in a cave along the Nile River. Why we find the Dead Sea Scrolls in a cave along the Dead Sea. These things around the world were being deliberately hidden and to be protected in the future because they knew that they were being suffered destruction. There's an ancient story here that's been preserved for thousands and thousands of years by these groups that it's been under war. It's been under war by the Holy Roman Empire and then other groups that have come after into today. This ancient war is basically a war on information. It's basically like when the conquistadors like Cortez went over and conquered Mexico with the Aztec and the ancient Maya, they burned 99% of every Mayan text. The only, like one of only two Mayan texts to survive the Popovu was because one of the Spanish priests conquistadors decided to protect it and keep it around for us today but essentially they were trying to wipe out our story of the past. And it's been going on now for thousands of years. And so whatever is left now, whatever is left is basically what we have left over. And I want to give an example. In the Royal Ashurbanapal Library that was found in ancient Nineveh in 1849 by Austin Henry Laird, they found upwards of 40, 50,000 cuneiform tablets. And out of that, we only have a few hundred that have been translated. Where are the rest of them? Why did so many of these ancient manuscripts and texts from the Aztec and the Maya end up in the Vatican archives in Rome? What we're seeing here is a controlled opposition of our history to hide this entire chapter of our past. It's far more organized and controlled than we realize it is. And that's why the people that are doing this, me and Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and Robert Shock and Robert Breval and Billy Carson and countless other names. None of us are archeologists because we can't be. We have to be sort of on the outside to be able to do this because you would lose all credibility and all of your academic work that you have built up to that. We're, it's a war over our past that we're fighting right now. And it's growing because of the internet and people getting more access to this, it's becoming more and more known. And this veil of this illusion, this illusion of our past and who we are and all this, it's coming down right now as more and more learn the truth. And it's becoming like a crusade for people like me. So tell us more about your book with Billy Carson. It just came out two days ago. Congratulations, I think it's humanity. Where can we get it? What's in it? That book was over the over course of two and a half years of work went into that book. And what we wanted to do is Billy Carson and I had been working together for a number of years and we said, you know, hey, why don't we collaborate together and try to write this story that, you know, we call the epic of humanity because our story is an incredible epic. It's just amazing. And I think that there hasn't been a book yet that has come out that's told the chronological order of our story, from the beginning, all the way up until now and where we're going in the future. And that's what this book, the whole purpose of it does. It has timelines in it. We wear everything places where the ancient history according to the best evidence we have and what the ancient texts tell us as well as graphs and charts. And basically Billy and I try to recreate to the best of our ability, what our story is. How far back this lowering of kingship came, this creation of humanity, these influences of these like sky gods and all of these things that have happened throughout our history, we're trying to tell what this epic is that we have. And that's why I'm very proud to include as many ancient texts that I believe of any book ever created where people can go in almost like a, this is like a dictionary of our ancient texts of our history where, you know, to me the most important pieces of those ancient texts are preserved here like a time capsule for the future so that people can go and read themselves what the ancient people try to tell us but also have all the data and evidence to back up to like try to recreate this story of our epic. Beautiful. And I know you're gonna be speaking at the Conscious Life Expo. I'll be there. I never miss it every year. I do, I cover it. And so it's in February, it's live or live stream. So there's no excuses for folks not to be able to see it and there's going to be a link that you can get your tickets, you must get tickets and highly recommended. It's my highlight of every year. And there'll be a link there so you folks can register and attend. Talk about when you're gonna be presenting what you're gonna be presenting. I'll be presenting on February 10th. So please sign up for that if you're interested. I've done some posts on it. She's gonna have a link in there. I only have like 150 people that can have it in the room. So it's gonna fill up so I hope you can sign up for it. But I'm gonna have a whole presentation I'm gonna be doing that's gonna go into a lot of the things we talked about tonight and quite a bit more where we're really gonna be showing charts and data and breaking this down in a very complex way to try to recreate our ancient history and talk about ancient catastrophes. A lot of stuff with these lost civilizations and the dead star. And I wanna show data and really try to bring this lost knowledge back to the light with, to try to be as compelling as I can with something that's both academic but as well as something that's entertaining and interesting. Oh, absolutely. So you're gonna be Friday night. Friday, yeah, Friday. Before Jimmy Carson does the panel on ancient history stuff. Okay, fantastic. And I'm just so curious with the inception where you started with all this, Matt and all of this fascinating exploration, digging, unearthing, learning. What has it caused change for you in consciousness and spirituality in the life of the universe and your part in it? What has that research led you to as a being right now that has created a great trajectory and change? It was one of those incredible journeys where learning about all these ancient teachings, the spiritual nature of these civilizations, all the things they left behind these ancient texts, the way in which they worshiped the cosmos and consciousness, that journey for me has been something that's been embodied in me as well. You almost can't have that effect, not affect you. It's so powerful and you never look at reality the same way again. You are changed forever. It's something where it does become difficult to sort of have casual conversations with a lot of people. I think a lot of people listening to this will understand that once you go down this, they call it the rabbit hole, which is the term they use a lot. But once you go down that to understand a completely different history, who we really are, once you go down this path, it changes everything in your reality, in your life. And it becomes almost like you're existing in a different reality plain than the others. You exist in this place where in the illusion of us, I talked about how it was almost like this farm of conformity with people that don't realize they're in a farm, you all of a sudden find like a hole in the fence and you run off into away from the farm and you sort of look back and you see a lot of these people sort of stuck in this conform mindset where they're all focused on certain things and their mindset is very much controlled. You're looking back and you're saying, hey, you're like over here and like most of them can't hear you or they're like, what are you doing out there? Come back. And it's difficult to be able to connect with people that are on that level that can understand because this is definitely a process that is very unique to everyone. Everyone goes down this path in a different kind of way. But in the similarities are striking in terms of how someone changes once they start understanding that they're the power of their energy and their consciousness and the being that they are in relation to the universe, it makes them into this alternate path where they can never see reality the same way again. And for all those people that feel lonely out there, we're so interconnected in the world, go out and find others like you because eventually there is gonna be a shift in consciousness and it's already happening where more and more are starting to wake up all the time and it's an exciting time to be here. This is Dare to Dream. What are you next, Dare to Dream, Matt? What are your future dreams or goals? Well, the Epic of Humanities just released with Billy Carson. I highly encourage people to check that out. That's a huge project. And then after that, I'll be tackling another enormous book. This one is gonna take me a couple of years because I'm trying to take on telling the entire story of this dead star and its influence on lost civilizations. So I'm gonna call, the new book is gonna be called The Rise and Fall of Civilizations and the Dead Star. Beautiful. Well, you have to come back on when that book comes out but maybe we won't wait that many years. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been really fascinating and full of goosebumps for me. I appreciate it so much. Thank you so much, Debbie. I really appreciate our conversation. And besides thestageofTime.com, is that the best place for people to find you or any other place? ThestageofTime.com, I have a YouTube channel and Matthew LaCroix, you can check out. I'm on Instagram and I'm trying to do more and more all the time. So just come check out my work if you're interested. And I really appreciate all the support that people give me. Beautiful. And of course, again, Conscious Life Expo, you don't wanna miss it. It will be in the show notes, definitely registered today. And I end today's show with this quote from Susanna Clark. Once men and women were able to turn themselves into eagles and fly immense distances. They communed with rivers and mountains and received wisdom from them. They felt the turning of the stars inside their own minds. Subscribe to this number one transformation conversation, The Weekly Dare to Dream with Debbie Dashinger. Leave a comment, share, subscribe. I read them all and I appreciate y'all so much. And next week, I am featuring the amazing artist, Medicine Woman and huge podcast host, Blue, unbelievable conversation. You will wanna tune into that. Thank you all for joining us today. And remember, you are far greater than you ever imagined. Far more powerful and read some of the books and follow Matthew LaCroix so you can find out more about the inceptions of where you really came from.