 Most serial killers keep some sort of trophies from their victims. I didn't. No. No, you ate yours. I'm not gonna lie, I just had a McDonald's. Had chicken, I guess. No, I'm not really that ashamed. Yeah, so this is a movie called Hannibal. Have you heard of it? I've heard about Hannibal. Hannibal? Hannibal the cannibal? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Alright, so have you seen this movie called Hannibal? No, I can't say I have. No? No, mate. Have you seen Hannibal? No. Anthony Hopkins, Silence of the Lambs? No, I've never seen it. You've never seen it? No. Okay. Yeah, I saw the scene of the lambs. There's a scene at the end where he's in the airplane and he's got like a box of food. It's got like figs and fruit and some cheese and then it's got this little container with human brains in there. Anyway, there's this little kid on the plane and comes up to him curiously, asks him like, oh, can I try some? What's that? Oh, that's caviar. This little kid is sitting across from him and is curious and wants to try some of his food and he points to the brains and wants some of that. And that? This? And Hannibal gives it to him and the little kid doesn't know it's human brains. It looks good. Oh, it is good. Can I have some? You're a very unusual boy, aren't you? I couldn't eat what they gave me. He feeds him the human brains, this little kid. Yeah. Open up. What do you think about that? I mean, that's not normal, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. Fun movie, I guess. Very nice. That's messed up, man. Why did you do that? Do you think it's bad to give them the brains? Yeah, I think so. It's bad. It's bad. Why? Why is it bad? Because it's not a beautiful thing. Yeah. Because you don't know. The little kid would be upset. Yeah? Yeah. I think it's morally wrong. It's wrong, even though the child doesn't know. You know, I think the wrong is with not telling the people that it's the human brain. Otherwise, if you would tell the person, I think being honest is much better than hiding something. I think it's weird to feed a kid something that they don't know the full length of what happened. Yeah, but that's why it's a movie. Yeah. What do you think about feeding a child something that they don't really know the full impact of what it is, you know? I mean, you could just give it to them. They wouldn't know what it is. You wouldn't feed... OK, there's a line. You wouldn't feed a child human brains, but you would feed a child meat because they need meat. Like, it's scientifically proven. But if you're going to feed another human being, narrowing meat, that's just messed. So can I correlate that to real life here? You know, like when we feed kids like, say, a hot dog, but they don't know that there's a slaughtered pig inside the hot dog. Do you think that's kind of like the same thing? I guess it's OK. Do you think it's the same thing? Not really, no. No? Human brains is something else than a pig. Yeah. Of course. But what if the kid found out that there was a slaughtered pig inside the hot dog? Little kid. Then the parents should tell it that there's animals in the hot dogs. It's not really a big surprise to me. Yeah. And if the small child were to know that that was a human brain from a murdered person, they would not want to eat it, would they? They saw that murder happen. I mean, that's upon the child. There's some chance that they would eat it. Yeah. Small child. More than likely not, though. I don't know. Maybe they're curious. Yeah. You're a very unusual boy, aren't you? I couldn't eat what they gave me. Children are weird these days. Imagine that you're a child and you see that like a person murdered. Yes. And then you're getting a brain to eat it. I really doubt that there will be child who would stay on the movie scene. I still think we need to consider all the children and I think some of them may have weird tastes. What if the parents didn't tell them? Do you think that's okay? I guess it's okay. It's not really a big deal. Little kids don't worry about pigs in hot dogs. Heaven's grill. I don't think it's heaven for the animals. More like hell's grill. From hell's slaughterhouse to heaven's grill. I don't think so. We give small children, say, a hot dog and there's bodies of pigs who have been stabbed in a throat, murdered, drowned in blood, all those things. But we don't tell them that, do we? No. No, we don't. We hide the fact that actually these are the animals who were killed. We call it hot dog or ham or some other name. Yeah. What did you see, Clarice? What did you see? Wham. They were slaughtering these spring lamps. For a child seeing a slaughterhouse, pigs screaming blood everywhere, do you think they would want to eat the hot dog? Don't think so, no. Gets are pretty impressionable. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So that's why I was trying to draw the correlation between that movie and the real life. So you went straight to animals. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Why did you do that? I could just tell where it was going. Because it's pretty obvious, isn't it? Yeah, it shows, you know. I made the quick connection of it that as soon as you said, it's outright. And I was like, oh, yeah, great. So do you think it's different to give a little kid a dead animal if they don't know it's a dead animal? Yeah, yeah, I am. I opened the gate to their pen, but they weren't. They just stood there. Confused. They weren't. But you could and you did, didn't you? Yes. I took one lamb and I ran away as fast as I could. So do you think if we showed them that process, they would want to eat these hot dogs and this ham? I had, like, personal experience with this because I was a little, and my parents were, like, openly talking to me about how the animals are treated. Yeah. At the same time, like, I was vegetarian for a really long time. Wow. And I think it had a great impact on me because they were, like, not hiding it from me. But at the same time, like, it was a bit scary for me to see at the age of, like, nine. Yeah. Because, I mean, it's not pleasant to look at, but I think that's the point when people see something which is, like, not pleasant to look at. I think that's what makes the impact. I think our, like, the fact that we're consuming so much meat is because we don't want to see how it's produced. Wow. That's a very good insight. Don't your eyes seek out the things you want? I love animals. Yeah. Really? Yeah. But I love it. Eat, eat, eat. I love it. Do you think if a child saw, like, let's just say a pig getting stabbed in the throat and his slaughterhouse blood everywhere screaming, do you think they'd want to eat, like, let's just say a hot dog? No. Because when I was little, I saw a pig being, like, tortured and stuff. Apparently that's how they make it and stuff. It's not really what you want to see, is it? And it's put me on a port for life now. Really? So, yeah, I don't eat it anymore. Like, it's just not what you want to see. It completely puts you off the food, like... You still wake up sometimes, don't you? You wake up in the dark and hear the screaming of the lamb. Wow. Who was the first person to give you meat? I'd say my parents, probably. Did they tell you it was a slaughtered animal? No, they didn't. No, they just said, you know, grubs up, there you go. Yeah. You saw it as food. What about you? Who was the first person to give you meat? I couldn't remember. But it's kind of, like, shielding kids from the truth. Like, you wouldn't tell them, oh, like, an animal died in a horrific way. Eat their meat. It's like, you would... people... the parents would still tell their kids, oh, Santa's real. What became of your lamb, Chloe? Uh, chicken. But I love two animals. Yeah. It's odd. You know, it's a difficult show, is it? Like, you mean a five-year-old child sees a lamb get their head cut off? What do you think, like, what do you believe a child is going to do if they've seen that? Oh, yeah, they're not probably going to eat lamb or whatever meat for the rest of their life. Yeah. Or until they decided to block that memory out. So if we can feed them lamb without their knowledge, do you think that's ethical still? Well, they don't know how that animal got killed. So you agree it's wrong? Yeah. You think it might be a little bit hard to change? I would like one day to be a vegetarian... Vegetables. Yeah. Vegan. Have you heard of vegano? No. No. Vegan? No animal product. Yeah. Yeah. This is really hard. This is really odd. Yeah. I love it, but I think in time, can I... Change? Can I change? Slowly, slowly. Slowly, slowly. Where are you from, Italy? Yeah, Italy. Yeah, everything has a cheese and... Yeah. It's our culture. Yeah. Perciutto? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is a pig. Yeah, we know, we know. Yeah. Like, the two-fairy isn't real, but they'll still keep that imagination alive because I don't think kids at young age should be scarred like that. Do you think there's any moral implication of lying to them about the two-fairy comparative to lying to them about, say, a tortured animal being put in their mouth? Well, obviously, like, a two-fairy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a figment of imagination when it's just your parents. Yeah. It's not as bad as a tortured animal, for say, like, a two-fairy. It's just like, it's the two-fairy in it. Like, it's not gonna, like, you know, scar them for life or whatever. Do you think it's wrong to give a child something that they might be against in their heart? Like, let's just say a little kid, they love animals, and we feed them animals, but we don't tell them what goes on to get that. Do you think that's right or wrong? I think it's a heart-topic because it's, morality is very, it depends from a person or from the society. So, right now, I would say if we know the cause of climate change, and we're talking so much that, like, eating animal products are contributing to the climate change, I would say it's not okay if we have this knowledge. But I can imagine that, like, 10 or 20 years ago, that would be totally, like, fine, right? So... You know, what's really interesting to me is that when I talked about the human brain, you went, it wasn't a hard thought. You said automatically, that's wrong. But with the animal, we started talking about climate change and all these things, and not the animal being stabbed in the throat and whether or not it's right or wrong to give this, you know, like, it was a really easy question and answer with the human. But it's not so much for the animal. Could we agree first, like, most children are fundamentally against cruelty to animals or, you know, yeah? So I'm a slaughterhouse. No thanks, Mum. I don't want that ham. Yeah. It's not very televised now. Like, you know, you see adverts of, like, let's say like McDonald's, for example. I'm not gonna lie. I just had a McDonald's. Had chicken nuggets. I'm not really that ashamed. But... But on TV, it's advertising. It's like, oh, there's free-range chicken, you know, running through fields. But in reality, they're not. They go to the slaughterhouse. So the field is kind of irrelevant when they get stabbed in the throat. So in a way, it's fine. But in a way, it's, like, not fine. It's a bit of both, fine line. So it's like, if... What they don't know won't hurt them. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Pretty much, yeah. Shield them from the truth. So I guess you're fine with Hannibal feeding human brains to the kid on the plane then? I mean, now that we've put it in that sense, um... You just agreed that it's okay to feed them, you know, slaughtered animals. So slaughtered humans, if they don't know, it's fine? Well, no, it's not fine. But in the same sense of giving an animal food, a human food, like an animal, then it's just, like, justified in a way. There's so many, like, arguments now. And, like, most people are turning vegan for, like, the right thing, because animals are being treated badly. But it's just... I can't put it into words. I feel that there's a massive contradiction happening here where, like, it's not okay to feed human beings to the little kid, but it's okay to feed them hacked-off pieces of lamb. I think that's just naturally because humans, as humans, we're more intelligent, you know, we're dominant, like, creature on earth at this point. For me, I don't think it's fair, because, I mean, when you think of certain animals, like, I know some of them have a specific purpose and they serve us, but at the same time, why is more okay to kill a pig than to kill a dog? I mean, yeah, dog is nice. You cuddle with them. It's, like, cute, but at the same time, you know, like, when you see the pig, I think, you know, they shouldn't make this comparison and, like, saying, you know, this one is more useful than the other, because I think both of their values, like, life values are similar, you know. And not all humans are intelligent, are we? Yeah. So, like, we're not going to say, you're intelligent, you're not. You die, you don't. You're in my sandwich, you're in my brains, in my airplane lunch or whatever, so... Sometimes, like, when you're at someone else's house and they, you know, give you meat to eat, like, they've cooked it for you, you have to have it. Like, you don't even have a choice. Even though, like, you might not want to, like... Oh, now you're being rude and I hate rude people. Drink your broth like a good boy. Come on. Oh, that's not very good, buddy. Sometimes, like, if people are cooked like a full-on, like, meaty meal and stuff, I'll just have a salad or something, because it won't be the meat I'll eat, like, in my opinion. You wouldn't want to be rude to say, oh, no, Hannibal, I don't want those brains from that human. I know you prepared those brains. Yeah. No, so, yeah. That smells great. Yes. Let's try some of these. I would really like some of that. Excuse me, Hannibal, no brains for me. Yeah, but, like, it's just like, you know... I've sort of gone off me a bit at the moment. Yeah, I understand why. I don't have an eat-me for six years. Still here, still alive, still healthy, but... Yeah, but I would say it's also connected that we are, like, the same species. So for us, it's, like, unacceptable to kill a person and to eat someone. That's why, like, cannibalism, when we, like, hear that someone was, like, a cannibalism, there's, like, a huge, like... I get it. It's the same species, we're not used to it, but if it's a dog or a dog as well, no, no, no, but a pig is more acceptable, but inside the animal, they don't want to die just as much as, you know, maybe a small child doesn't want to die like a pig escaping the knife and... I'd say, like, with the vegan stuff, it looks like a good idea, in my opinion. Like, I'd say, you know, not killing as many animals, especially in, like, the harmful ways where they're essentially being tortured or, like, really harmed. It's not really nice to the animal. You can kind of imagine your shoes if you're like that. It wouldn't be, like, nice for you. So it makes more sense why people are making more, like, meats out of plant-based stuff, and it makes more sense, because people say it tastes the exact same. So it kind of seems like, why can't we just do all that as well? So, in principle, you agree that it's wrong to give a kid human brains without their knowledge, but animals without their knowledge, what are you, on the fence? Do we get a final answer? I think you should tell them everything. Yeah, of course. When they're young, they don't really have the chance to decide fully for themselves, but still, I think they need to be aware. Of course, like, not showing them murder from the age of one, but I think it's good when you raise a child in a way that they are curious and they want to know how the world is. So then they can make a proper choice, like, their own informed decision. In principle, if an animal was screamed and died inside of a slaughterhouse, you think that's fine to feed to a kid without their knowledge. So that's all I'm trying to find out, because it seems like we're going from one to another. I'd say they should know. I think they should. Just so they have a choice of whether they do find it disturbing, they don't like it, and they should turn into a vegetarian or a vegan diet. I think children should know what they are eating. And if you were to lie to them, you'd think that that would be wrong to lie to them about that. I think it's pretty clear to them that an animal needed to be killed. I don't know. I don't remember how I was thinking about it. I just knew that the meat is so tasty, I don't want to give up on it. Let's just say I showed your footage of a gas chamber pig screaming for their life, getting stabbed in the throat, and you continued to feed your kid there, and your kid was like, I love pepper pig. Do you think there's something morally wrong with that, deep down? Yeah, there is something wrong with it, but I think we're so used to giving children meat, and the same diet is kind of new. Not a lot of people actually know about it. If I went home today and said, oh, I'm vegan now, my dad would be like, oh, what's that? What can you eat? What can you not eat? So they're practical issues, but in principle the moral issue would be that it's unethical to feed kids something they're probably morally against without their knowledge or concern. Yeah, pretty much. Maybe try to find a vegan version, and maybe we should tell little kids before we give them dead animal. Oh, yeah. After all, as your mother, tell us how my mother suddenly told me it is important, she always used to say I was to try new things. Open up. Thank you so much for the conversation. You already know so much about it, so that was really good. Because I'm just drawing a human comparison in it. Yeah, I'm just here. Joey, Tom. Thanks for the interview. That's okay. Thank you very much. Enjoy your time. Bye-bye. Thanks guys. He's like, see you later. This guy's f***ing me up.