 You talked earlier about older men not having answers for younger men, and I know a lot of us have children with grandchildren. We have a concern about them in various ways. Could you speak to how initiation gives men answers for their children and grandchildren? Well, remember I also said the important thing is to have questions more than answers, but you're still making a very good point. That when you're a little kid you do ask questions and you want some answers. The easiest way, it's not the common way in the West anymore, unless you're my age. Those of you who are younger, you grow up in what we call post-modern society, where there aren't any answers. Where you pretend that there's no universal truth, there's nothing that's always true. It's making it much harder to grow up without having any answers. In fact, if you pretend to have an answer you're made fun of by the time you're in college anyway. This is what we mean by post-modernism. The easiest way to grow up is to be given enough joyful truth that your soul can be settled. Like I grew up believing all the stories were absolutely true. It was such a comforting way to begin. Now then I had to go to college, then I had to study theology and study philosophy, and believe that all my simple answers, well, they weren't really totally true. And then I had to come back to what we call second naivete, or second innocence. Let me give you what I tell the students in the living school, and this is a quick way of teaching. I tell them to picture three boxes. Have you heard me talk of this yet? Order, disorder, reorder. Reorder is the goal. There is no non-stop flight from order to reorder. You've got to go through disorder. You've got to grow up. You've got to lose your innocence. You've got to find that it isn't always true that Catholics are all nice people, and that Protestants are all going to hell. That gives you great comfort when you're a little Catholic boy, and then of course you grow up and you find all the Protestants on the same thing about us. We were all going to hell. We have to start with these simple naivete things to give us initial comfort. That's the box of order. It's almost always a false order. Who, if you didn't grow up, America is the best country in the world, and the only country that God loves and God shares is great suddenly. He gives Americans great comfort, but I hope you've gotten out of America at least once in your life. And though there's a lot of world in the United States of America, there's many people who are much nobler than we are, even in Mexico, even in Canada. You got a Canadian. But a lot of people refuse that growing up. I will not admit that truth. God has shed His grace on this country, and we are superior to everybody else. Those are the false comforts of box one. Now, I'm saying that in response. You still need to give that first naivete. You can't be teaching your five-year-olds deconstruct and second box blessings, you know? Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and the three kings came, and the shepherds came, and Mary and Joseph. It's all so beautiful. It's all so coherent. Believe it as it is. And then grow up in time little by little. And then, at my age, I can go right back and believe the Jesus Bethlehem story just as it was real. I don't need to deconstruct it anymore. It's filled with meaning at every level. But now it's spiritual meaning. It's not historical meaning. It's not absolute, literal truth. That doesn't matter to me anymore. All I want is the spiritual meaning. But that's the gift of being a wise man or an elder, that you've gone through disorder to re-order. And re-order, we call it second naivete. Art, we used to call it second childhood. Remember old people? Who you return to innocence. I'm tired of the fighting that you go through in the 30s and the 40s. You know, all these people fighting one another who cares. You don't have time for it anymore. You just want the truth. And the truth becomes very simple, very clean, very clear. And you let people say it in different ways and you don't pick fights with them. You understand? I don't need to make you say it my way to like you. I don't need you to be a white, middle class American before I can talk to you. We don't have time for that anymore. But that was the immaturity, most religion up to now. And let's be honest. Most of the world religions, let me pick on Christian, but most of the world religions are the same way. They're all with that tribal, clannish level of really letting it conform to our way of thinking. They're still in the naivete first box. Follow me? And neither do I want you to stay in the angry second box. These are most liberals and progressives and people are just arguing politically correct about everything and just get tired of them. Really if you get tired of them. So your initiation is telling you there is a third box and giving you the path to go there. You're not there yet. So don't think after you leave our five days it goes strange. You're in the third box. You know about the thought. And that's more than most men do.