 relationship with the people that I work with. I've done a lot of pastoral care as a deacon beyond what I would do normally as a choir director. I sometimes now run into some of my students that were in my youth choir and they'll say do you remember me and of course I remember you. I took a group from White Rock and I Methodist to they were accepted at Disney World Magic Music Days and that was meaningful not only because the kids had a good time but they we had devotions and Bible study time for them and helping them on their journey and their faith and talking about all those things. Well my work at Ceaseware has brought great meaning most clearly and quickly and naturally when I find myself engaged authentically as friends with people who need help, people at the margins, people at the margins are really something. We don't give them a chance to reveal that somethingness because we rush so often to help and to fix and to do. What we need to do is to come alongside and listen, experience and find the joy that is there even in often extreme circumstances economically. You don't always hear if you've made impact but I did have one of my youth tell me that the things that she loves most about herself she learned while she was a part of the youth choir and youth bills and that was really that really stands out. One of the most important and meaningful experiences I had actually when I was an associate pastor was taking my youth group to Barborsville, Kentucky with the Appalachian service project and we spent a week there working with the people in the hollers as they said helping them work on their homes and repair and to take a group of kids from University Park Methodist Church which was an upper middle class congregation to that different world and to be able to minister to minister through our actions to the gospel still resonates with me as one of the most powerful experiences I had in ministry that one stands out to me in terms of actually being on the ground and witnessing God's grace through our actions and deeds. Get out of your church building get into your community and learn to listen and in the listening to the people you're trying to reach what I discovered is not only solutions that bring relief but opportunities to really come to know and that really is what it's all about and it's an amazing thing when you get to know people at a level where they feel free sharing their struggle and you feel free to share yours. I think music is a way to draw people in again like nothing else can don't be afraid to do programs of secular music because dad might come to that and then he's in the building so that would be a recommendation don't be afraid to find opportunities outside the walls and to do things in the walls that would be open to folks that might not come otherwise. As a academic I'm deeply committed to the notion of the intellectual love of God and so I think it's really important that churches take very seriously the educational role that we have to help especially young people. I am a big proponent of getting out into the community and affording the people that I work with the opportunities with the community but also for the community to get to know what we do in our churches and all over the years I've taken several groups to nursing homes or places where we sing where they sing along you know they know the song especially at Christmas time they may be even in a dementia unit and don't always remember you know what day it is but you start singing some of the Christmas songs and they're singing right along with you so that I'm I really enjoy taking my people out into the community. Remember that you're working with human beings they're not perfect you're not perfect only God is perfect and especially remember that and Saxie has a saying love God and love people I mean if you do that you're gonna have a wonderful life in the in the church and in your work. Love your people I mean if your people are sick you go to their side if your people are lonely or broken or distraught you bring comfort when your people produce offspring you celebrate and you christen and you rejoice when they die you bring comfort to those who are left and you honor those who have gone on in every circumstance as a pastor your authenticity and the power of your ability to communicate truth hinges upon your genuine devotion to your people that's not always easy every time we engage in this manner we have great results and people may not agree with us but they they they never doubt that we that they are loved by us and that just makes things work. My best advice to any organ and would be the scripture that says blessed is he took who trusts in the Lord Proverbs 1620 it's on the bottom of my email and I look at that every day and I trust that I know that God will be with me and walks with me and we have opportunities to work with a lot of people we make mistakes but we walk on and we pick up from wherever we are and trust that God will walk with us we're never alone. To remember that we may disagree about some things with regard to our fundamental belief that God is a God of grace and forgiveness that can unite us even though we may have disagreements about theological sorts of issues or biblical interpretation.