 All right, so today I'm with Ben Hunt and he has just published a book called expert liberation For Ben, let me just say hi to you first before I say more about your background. Yeah, thanks for being here So so I'm I've known Ben for years. I mean at least five years and When I met him, you know, I'll talk with you then when I met you Five or seven years ago, maybe it was maybe even longer than that you were already one of the sort of marketing experts that I really looked up to as being somebody who who really cared about people instead of instead of just making money you you were exposing some marketing unethical practices and things I mean you were doing it brilliantly already years ago and and so I really I've always looked up to you for that and You know recently and and you've been teaching people marketing like I'm even doing marketing in some form for 25 years So and you've been teaching people marketing in some form for I'm sure That over a decade longer than I have anyway, so it's great to it's great that you are now you've now put together into one book Sort of your everything you've learned about how to become a Make a living as an expert essentially you've got you know, those of you a lot of people watching this have some modality some message some experience that they want to Share with the world to be able to make a living doing it and you basically put together in this book called expert liberation Your step-by-step plan for how to do that So it's it's a very generous book. I thank you for sending me the review copy And I'm just looking forward to everybody here at the very least going to the website watching the video You've got a free free three and a half hour course, right? So everyone should check that out. Obviously get the book It's available from the website, but Ben I want you to I want you to share with us I could talk about this all you know the whole time But I want you to share with us what you mean by expert liberation and kind of give us a Sketch of what those overall steps might be that you're asking people to take Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for the very kind introduction. Yeah So, I mean I I started out You know, I can say I've been in in marketing and digital marketing online marketing for 25 years but the reality is that I started out as a web designer in 1994 and It wasn't for several years that I realized that web design was actually marketing because I've come from a Mixed background. I've done loads of different university courses You know, one of these people that's interested in lots and lots of things and I've done modern languages I've done art. I've done some history. I've done all kinds of you know interesting stuff and I Treated web design like Graphic art like so many people did back then at the beginning it was so exciting You know and the people just got carried away with how cool you could make stuff look and it wasn't until When was it about? 2009 I think that the first light bulb came on because I'd written the book in That's interesting start or interrupt. That's when I started my business 2009. So yeah, yeah, I mean I'd I This is the thing. I was already in business. I was already successful. I had my own web design agency Yeah in 2004 I'd started a blog called web design from scratch Because I that time I was doing a consulting job for the government I was doing user interface design and I spent three hours on a train every day They're they're about going to a different city and you know, I got bored of Sudoku So I pulled out my laptop and I started just writing this is before WordPress, right? You know WordPress didn't really come out till 06, you know Properly and so I self-published this this blog called web design from scratch and I just started sharing Information about what makes web pages work because my mum When I was a little boy and I had a very restless mind She one of the things that she did was she sat me down and she taught me because she'd studied art history at University she taught me she sat me down and showed me these like color plates of old masters paintings right and And she explained to me why The layout was the way it was why that horse's leg is pointing in that direction she taught me about things like managing the eye and you know Basically, she introduced me to the reality that there is a visual language in Art and design, okay, and that all went in and just you know became part of my self-contrast and then Because I've been doing web design for say 10 years at that point and I was doing it effectively and you know my web design I Guess my approach was high in usability which isn't really a term you hear much these days But it was big usability was big in the late 90s And my my designs were practical and useful and fairly effective right so And I've noticed that when I was working for agencies, I'd have junior designers And I would sit them down and say look well, this is why that doesn't work You know that should be inside that box because it's relates to that thing, you know, so all of this the interpreting and applying that that visual language to Web pages, okay, and so I started just creating these tutorials Explaining that stuff because I was bored and I wanted something to do and within a few months. I was getting Visitor numbers in in four figures per day so thousands per day and it really was one of the first blogs or Websites dedicated to effective web design now If I had known back then what I know today I Would have that would I would have been made at that point, right? But we'll come back to that so and and I wrote in 2006. I wrote a a blog post called current styling web design Which was because I was looking around and you know the you remember the term web 2.0 that that was kind of big in the mid mid-2000s and So I was looking around and I was it seemed to me that there was a Kind of new Style emerging there was a kind of a consensus about what made web pages work And I thought was really interesting and I thought I'll do a blog post about it or a post about it article about it and So I broke down like 10 main Factors that kind of typify the signature of this, you know modern approach and And I published it and it took me one day You know from concept to publishing it was one day's work. Even I think I did it while I was on my at my job as well on my contract and Thought no more about it and then a few weeks later I noticed that my Google Analytics stats were spiking and I was getting 678,000 people a day coming to the website and I thought what is this? This is crazy and I looked at my But what is now the search console stuff? I looked at the phrases that people were typing in to come to my website and there was this term my number one term Web 2.0 design right now. I didn't know what web 2.0 was At all, I've never heard the term because it was very new and and web 2.0 did not appear anywhere in the article either and But when I look back few years later when I look back That's Article and then I followed it up. So this is interesting I mean people were finding that article even though that term wasn't in the post it because maybe other people had linked to your Post with the words web 2.0. I imagine correct. Yeah Design I was ranking number one on Google for web 2.0 design Years yeah, and then I wrote another article to capitalize on it called the web 2.0 design style guide A few months later. Okay, and then I was ranking at number one and two on Google for web 2.0 design And when I look back and actually added up all the hundreds of thousands of visits that I'd had for that term right then Basically that one day's work that I had done Attracted if I had bought that traffic at Google's recommended bid amount It was worth ten million dollars the amount of traffic if I bought it from Google I would have paid ten million dollars for all the traffic that came for free to that thing But I I did what a lot of people do it so tempting to do You know you get some kind of big success and you think that you're King Midas and everything you touch turns to gold and I just See I kind of free-wield from that point I you know I was getting lots of leads my web design agency and You know, I thought life is easy life is easy life is good. Let's coast and relax. Okay, and What I should have done is I should have capitalized on that Sudden advantage that I had and shut out the rest of the market and doubled down on being the number one Web, you know visual web design guru in the world Because I had the opportunity back then to do it, right? I didn't do it I just carried on doing what I was doing and thought that success would continue just to arrive. Okay so Looking back what I should have done is immediately packed in my contract Shut down my web agency Right because it was there was a lot of hard work and a lot of grief And I should have created a video course on how to do web 2.0 design 10 hours, whatever make it in a week and I I would probably have then and then cemented my place as that worldwide authority Okay, and I think if I had done that then I would probably never have had to work again And you would have been too famous for me to talk to you right now No, I mean this is this is fascinating and it makes me think all everybody here has some Just even following that analogy, right? Everybody here has something that they're being found by Yeah, not not not everybody has thousands of hits a day to their site like like you did but Everybody here has something they're they're being thought of by their peers by their network by their you know friends and colleagues And maybe by the web, maybe they're being if you go to search com Google search console You might find out why why is it people keep finding me using these terms if it's one or two or three terms Especially if it's several terms and they're similar And you're saying if that's happening you you need to pay attention and see about Really getting into that as as solidifying that as your reputation there, right? Yeah, for sure. That's definitely one way one way of doing it So really what I'm saying and the essence of expert liberation So this is basically this is the book that would have made me if I'd read it 15 years ago Okay, and unfortunately didn't exist 15 years ago So I wrote it over the last 12 months or so and Really the the focus of expert liberation So it begins with choosing and designing a one thing Right, this is your one thing. This is the thing that you are going to be the world Authority on and it can be quite narrow, right? For example, I had a client years ago This is back then mid mid noughties. I had a client called Steve who So his history this is really interesting because your one thing comes it's like a combination it can draw in your past You know what you've done what education you've had what experience you've had all that kind of stuff and it's also influenced by your future You know, what kind of life do you want for yourself? Where do you want to be what kind of person do you want what and Fundamentally, what is the lifestyle that you choose for yourself? You know when you get up on a Monday morning And you're gonna bounce out of bed on a Monday because you can't wait to do your your thing that you do Okay, so Steve his history was that he'd worked as a consultant in European Union Legislation stuff like that for companies right really really boring But he was good at it and he had a lot of experience in it right but Steve's passion was golf Right, he loved playing golf his amateur golfer and he even designed golf courses Right, and you're thinking well how on earth can you combine those two things? But what Steve did was he created a brand called golf Europa. I don't know if it's still around because you know 15 odd years ago And he created a niche for himself to be the only right category of one so if you imagine there's like a crossroads, okay, there's European legislation and Golf right and there's one crossroads and there's only one stall at that crossroads and Steve is standing at the stall He is the guy for that one thing So he created himself a consultancy which allowed him to work from home allowed him to travel around Europe It allowed him to go to golf courses and play around You know and and to apply his experience and his education and everything else To what he loved to do so he created a job that he loved for himself, and that's like a brilliant one thing Okay, I could have done that 15 years ago, but what I did was I Didn't drop my anchor I should have dropped my anchor at that point and stay at that place and double down and dominated the market It's like The analogy I like to think about is skydive is all jumping out of a plane Okay, and if you are the number one guy, you're the first jumper and You're free falling down there the number two guy no way can he catch you up, right? Because you are you are accelerating away and search engines work like that If you can be number one on Google for your particular term that you've decided you're gonna own If if you're number one you're always going to get about twice as much traffic on average as the number two guy so when you get twice as much traffic then You get twice as many visitors and when you get twice as many visitors you get twice as many links and likes and shares and Mailing lists of subscriptions and all of that good stuff. Okay, provided your content is good If your content sucks, then you may find that eventually you'll be number two and the guy who was number two has overtaken you But that's the thing that's the thing it's about choosing this one thing and really focusing on it So you don't want to drift and I drifted I drifted through different things web design I created a course in web design a bit later and that you know that made me six figures in a couple of years as well and Yet I drifted again. I just kept kind of drifting from this to the next thing Then I I got excited about conversion rate optimization and I wrote a book on that so it's like, you know I'm I'm like a puppy in a field of butterflies You know, I'm just see something move and I chase it and then I chase something else and I chase something else And I never I never stop and go right this this is mine You know putting my stake in the ground and I'm gonna be the guy for this thing So that's that's the first thing and it really and it needs to be something It needs to be something that you love if you don't love it then then scratch that off your list straight away So I'm gonna ask you about them. So so now you're one thing is expert liberation right now You're not the first person to have thought of this idea Like there is of course, you know, we all all heard of either Brenda brashard or Marie for Leo or or the other 15,000 gurus that help people to make money with their mess All right. So this has been happening for for many years. So I'm just teaching cells, you know, yeah right, right, so so What I'm getting from what you're doing now is you are repackaging this and owning the term expert liberation Is that is that right? So is that is that so if that's true then what I'm reason I mentioned because then this gives hope To everybody watching this to say well, I'm not I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world doing this thing but Could I then frame it differently and be the the one in the world the first one and maybe the only one in the world at That crossroads that you talked about. So so talk about this. How can each person here? Yeah, own that Yeah, that's a really good really good point because yeah You don't have to be the only Person in the world, but what you can do is you can be the only person that says I am The you know, so it's like you want to find a phrase or a term So if I say I'm the expert liberation guy and I own expert liberation calm Nobody else can be the expert liberation guy Right. It's like the four-hour work week. Right the Tim Ferriss awesome book, but it's more than a book Yeah, he created a book and he's created follow-on programs and all kinds of stuff And he speaks at events and stuff, but it's all around the four-hour concept and Tim owns There's no there's no way the world could stomach another four-hour work week guy because it's already got one Yeah, and that's makes me think like I Years ago, I just started saying authentic business and authentic business coach because there's a nice ABC ring to it, but Now if you Google authentic business coach, I'm the only guy on the first page I mean literally everything is me and nobody else is you which is kind of surprising I'm sure other people are trying to use it or whatever, but yeah, that's that's that's an interesting thought So so really it's like those of you who are inspired by this idea and say is there a phrase Is there a term and by the way, is that something you can help clients with coming up with that term? Yeah, yeah for sure I mean actually, you know, it's one of the things I love doing the most is is is helping people come up come up with that term Because it has to inspire you it has to have some a promise. Yes. Yes, you know like authentic business coach That will resonate with the people who even if they don't know they need that They'll get it. Yeah, so it's got to the end of the packaging's got to be it's got to like we have Some ads in the UK that say, you know, one seal quick drawing would stay and it does exactly what it says on the tin Which is a really great ad concept, but it's like it's like that, you know, the the the the logo the Strap life has to promise exactly what you need even if you don't know you need it, but for me Like you like you said lots of people have Come out with offerings that can help you to take your expertise and to make money out of it or build a business out of it Okay, that's great. That's brilliant. That's not expert liberation. The idea of expert liberation is As I've you know really focused it and refined it. Okay is that You're not it's it's about the lifestyle and it's about who you want to be it's not it's not just about making money Right making money in itself could be seen as cynical or whatever and that that's just that's not that's not me Right what what I'm about is the excitement of getting up on a Monday morning and go in brilliant I've got a coaching call today or I've got an interview today where I get to talk about this thing that I'm really passionate about. Okay, so You know, I tried my hand at lots of things like what you say you mentioned earlier on that Ethical marketing was was a big thing at the time a few years ago when around the time we met but Looking back Yes, the ethical side of marketing is something that's important to me, but it's not the bullseye It's not what's in my core, right? If you cut me down the middle. That's not what exactly what you find and You know, it has to be said I ruffled some feathers and got got threatened a couple of times over some of the stuff that I published And I've taken all that stuff down now, right But that's that's that's a topic for another conversation, right? but so expert liberation is is very positive and And it's it's about the lifestyle. It's about the Satisfaction that you get when you go to sleep. It's about, you know, not just earning money For its own sake because you know, how do you keep score of that numbers are infinite, right? Yeah, how do you know when you've earned enough money because you can just keep earning and earning and earning and You know, you could you could kill yourself you can make yourself unhealthy in the process that that's not the point And that's not what inspires me. So I'm not looking for people who just want to make money I'm looking for people who want the life that they'll love and Earn enough to enjoy the lifestyle that they love at the same time. So for me, you know, I have this vision in my mind of Walking my wife and I have this favorite beach is a couple of hours drive away and we go there And it's just miles and miles of sand and there's nobody there we almost never meet another human being on there and So I've got this kind of touchstone in my mind. I've got this this vision of Driving to the beach and I've got a notepad and I've got a pen I'm driving to the beach and you know on long drives I might my intense to go into another state and things can happen And then we walk on the beach and I throw stuff Balls for the dogs and you know, we pick up bits of driftwood and stuff like that But all the time I'm kind of thinking and talking over ideas for a client And that's my art. That's my vision of how I choose life to be being outside Being in contact with the earth being in the fresh air in the sunshine and being paid to think We come up with ideas and right and coach and advice. Okay, so now whenever there's a An opportunity that comes along or a possibility then I can I can say to myself, okay, does that Choice would it take me nearer to that? touchstone of Being paid to think while I walk outside in nature Okay, if it doesn't then that's very easy I can say okay I'm gonna let that opportunity go because it's not who I am and so this is this is really the thing and it's The reason why it's liberation is it's not just financial liberation. So yeah I want I want people who are stuck in the nine-to-five or particularly People who are stuck at home on lockdown right now, you know, we're thinking, you know, am I gonna have a job to go back to? Am I you know, is my employer gonna go bust? You know, well, this stuff is going on and And that's really I think highlighting to a lot of people how vulnerable we really are, you know We believe that we're led to believe that to be employed is secure But when you're employed, you've really only got one client and if you lose that client who lose the trust of that client or you Fall out with that client and your entire revenue stream can go and I love you saying that because that's why I believe so much in self-employment because I think you are your most important client and You got to take care of the most important client. But yeah, this is this is brilliant I love and I have to admit I didn't read the full book yet but I I read I Read I think a third of it skimmed a lot of it and I thought well This is definitely and I know your background. I know your skills So I'm like definitely want to bring Ben on to to share so I want to I just want to make sure people know Where to get the book as of this recording? You're selling the book exclusively through the website right expert liberation calm right and So again, that's expert liberation calm and then Yeah, so basically for well, it's a very I'm not gonna say what the price is because who knows when people are gonna be watching this So it's a reasonable price. You get the book you get you get it Audio book also that you've already recorded that's part of it as well And you give hours of interviews and case studies that come with the book package Right now as of this recording, you don't have any any additional offers You really just want to get the book out there and well, I mean, so here's the thing It's great to have digital product that the people can buy so you can earn some money while you sleep, right? That's that's fantastic. That's the ideal But again for my vision of what I want to be doing and how I see my life I Feel best. I feel great when I actually help people So the book is there to inoculate you with the idea of expert liberation and it really does set it out, you know And it's not a it's not a a step-by-step roadmap to your freedom and success Because everybody's path is going to be different, but what it is it's a method methodology for creating your own Roadmap to freedom and success Okay, so and it really does it draws on everything that I learned and quite honestly if if I had had that book in 2006 I would have read it in a day. I would have probably read it again the next day I would have got a sheet of paper. Literally. That's all it takes and I would have gone bang bang bang. This is what it's going to be and I would have been able to proceed with the confidence That this is possible. This is doable. This is you know realistic and it is it really is and George, I mean, you know as well as I do the technology that we have today for creating video It's even easier today than it was in 2006 or even 2012 or whatever you want to say it's it's Yeah, it's it's not just a it's a book for today. That's what that's what I that's what I see so I love this man You are very generous with your content I I hope everybody who watches this who finds your your story and in the idea fascinating will go and buy the book It's very affordable. I'm gonna be reading the book myself as well and Yeah, so I believe in bringing good people to my audience and you're one of them and I just want to thank you for your work and Looking forward to catching up again at some time, you know with them with with updates, you know, maybe a few months down the road I forgot to say the What I started saying so yes, I want people to buy the book Yes, yes I want people to read it and then on the back of that I you know, I don't offer like an inner circle membership stuff like that What I offer is you can work with me you can hire me as a coach or consultant by the hour or You know as a monthly thing if you want to work with me like that Then then you can contact me and sort something out that that that's that's my thing because I want to work with people I don't just want to churn out products and sell them and create funnels and that kind of stuff That doesn't inspire me working with people and seeing the the spark come on when you go Yeah, I am I you know, I can believe in myself. I can believe in my skills I can help the world and earn a living at the same time by doing what I love doing. I mean who doesn't want to do That's fantastic. That's excellent. All right, man I hope those who are watching this will go and get the book learn the methodology Any comments you have as you read the book? Questions you can feel free to comment below. Of course, you can contact Ben through the links that you see below Expert liberation calm. That's again. That's the website and Ben. Thank you so much for your work, man It's a pleasure always nice to talk to you. Yeah, thanks