 Good evening and welcome to the McGowan Theatre this evening for James Blue's film, The March We're happy to see all of you here And I also wanted to let you know that we do have an upcoming program on September 26th 7 p.m. A Celebration of sports an evening with Bob Costas and Michael Wilson it will be an evening with the broadcasting icons and And the conversation will highlight iconic sports moments drawn from our exhibition On view now which is titled all American the power of sports For those of you who are joining us online this evening To see the film when it's time for it to play. Please click on the link there Um, I also wanted to let those of you who are joining us online know that uh, we did not receive rights permissions for you To hear king's speech. So that will be silent for you. Um, and we do apologize for that So tonight our panel is made up of david a frank professor of rhetoric at the university of oregon Isisara bay artistic director of the march on washington film festival William jones professor of history from the university of minnesota And my name is chris austin and I am the supervisor of the motion picture preservation lab here at the national archives So thanks very much and with that i'll turn it over to david You are in for a big treat James blue was hired by the united states information agency To film the march on washington which took place on august 28 1963 august 28th was selected by the leaders of the march because it was the date that emet till was lynched and murdered in 1955 The march brought together 240,000 people to washington dc depress the congress to pass legislation Guaranteeing african americans equal rights In the wake of the march the congress did pass legislation including the 1964 civil rights act The 1965 voting rights act and then the march also pressured linden johnson to create and to implement His great society program Which was a host of about 200 different programs designed to bring some equity to this country Among them was the war on poverty And so i'm delighted that i am joined today with distinguished panelists who will bring some insight To the march on washington as a prelude to watching james blue's magnificent film The film won four international awards and it was introduced into the national registry in 2008 James blue went on to do great work as a documentarian and as a theorist And so again, you are in for a treat and we're going to keep our conversation To about 30 minutes and i begin with the preeminent scholar of the march on washington William jones from the university of minnesota He is the author of the best book on the march this titled the march on washington Jobs freedom and the forgotten history of civil rights If you are looking for a present for that difficult person An anniversary christmas bar mitzvah That is what you ought to do so buy many books and then to share it with your beloveds So professor jones You write That the march on washington for jobs and freedom Remains one of the most successful mobilizations ever created by the american left Its organizers did not achieve every aspect of that agenda But they linked struggles for racial and economic justice more effectively than any other Mobilization in the post war era The march on washington professor jones writes succeeded precisely because it was led by radicals Who understood and shared the concerns of the working class african-americans who made it such a large and effective demonstration You will see in the film a phillip randolph It in 1919 a phillip randolph was declared the most dangerous negro in america by Robert palmer who was at that time the attorney general the day after the march on washington in 1963 The fbi declared martin ruther king jr. The most dangerous negro in america because of his speech And so professor jones i ask you this question Based on your research How should we 60 years after the march on washington understand the march and blues film? Thank you david for inviting me to this and thanks to all of you for being here um I guess I think you know looking back. I think there are Kind of remarkable ways in which many of us do remember the march. I think largely Focused on dr. King's tremendous speech and I think ways in which I think we are familiar with the march as a tremendous mobilization and as a As a really sort of symbolic sort of dignity of the people who were there And it's those are things that I think we'll see in the film I think the film really shows that powerfully I think at the same time there are many things that we forget about the march And I think it's important to have a sort of a holistic view of the march I think remarkably I think the thing that is least connected to the march is actually the agenda The very radical agenda of the march the way in which It was a march for jobs and freedom. It was a march that was very explicitly connected demands for racial equality Two demands for economic justice that I think remain both of which remain very radical in In this country and I think it's important that we Sort of look past the The pageantry and the symbolism of the march to really understand What actually drew a quarter million people to washington? What did they want to accomplish? What did they accomplish? And what what remains to be accomplished? Miss Bate Yes Who are some of the women who played critical roles in the movements organizing and implementation? As we will see in the film There are the key roles played by women in the march But unfortunately there was significant misogyny in the organization of the march as well And there are very few women were allowed to speak But they were critical in the organization and the success of the march So could you speak to some of those other women that were critical in helping? I certainly will But I wanted to say two things I just learned last week and that was that there were sympathy marches Across the world at that time in algears in west germany. I just found out last week. That's why I'm telling everybody now Algears in west germany and korea and england and egypt Similar to what happened after george floyd was killed The residents around the world was powerful Uh the women of the march So I know that now it has become in the last few years people have been acknowledging the fact that women were not Front and center in the march as much as they were very much behind the scenes And doing more than cooking fried chicken for lunches by the way And I have a reverence for a couple of the women who were pivotal in the movement More so than the march itself Although I have to mention darthie height who sat with the council of nine and Made sure they didn't make her get the coffee blessed her heart But I really love um fanny luhamer Who was powerful behind the scenes and I believe stayed in uh, she didn't come to washington at the time I revered her because of the many things she did One of which was getting Running for a congress in mississippi and coming up to dc when she and two of her Colleagues lost they came up anyway to the swearing in of the delegates that year and They came to protest the all-male all-white delegation And they were seen outside of the capitol building by a congressperson from lost long island whose name I have left my poor mind But he brought them in when he heard what they were doing And it was the first time that these african-american women were on the floor of the congress And uh, this congressman and others held up the swearing in of the mississippi delegation Because it was unfair and unjust congress had scores of hearings over the next year um in mississippi and The transcripts of which for mrs. Hamer Victoria gray and any divine We got at at the march on washington film festival and made a musical out of it So it's such a wonderful thing to see it come to life. The other woman. I really revere is ella baker Who also an earlier organizer i'd say more forties and fifties brilliant woman But what gave me my respect for her was last spring we screened a film lounge county and the birth of black power And it was about snick moving to lounge county to help them with voter registration But the organizers of snick louis and stokely karmichael and some of the others Were encouraged by ella baker to form snick and not stay dependent and beholden to the older ministers Who were keeping a frame around their radicalness? So she was a mentor to all of them and a teacher and i love that in her Thank you. You're welcome This covek you were responsible for restoring the film And in 1986 the film was allowed back into the country because when it was produced in 1963 64 There was a law against the usia United states information agency Showing films produced by the government to a domestic audience And in 1986 John carrey who was in the senator and barney frank who was then a representative Passed helped to pass a law allowing james blues film to be shown to domestic audiences Then in 2008 the film was introduced into the national registry and the film I believe was sent over to you and the the blueprints and the Originals were Used by you to restore so what observations or challenges came up During the restoration of james blues film so when uh, we first started the The preservation in 2008 one of the things that we noticed was that there was 16 frames missing from blues original negative So that's approximately one foot of film or just about a second So what we did is we found a beautiful print that still had those frames And we created a new negative and we kept that separate from blues negative But when we made new film copies we were able to reinsert that to complete the whole Then when we did the restoration in 2013 We scanned everything and actually went through the film frame by frame To make sure that all of the dust was removed scratches We made sure that the color was accurate and then it really reflected the You know the time that blues shot the film So our entire goal was you know creating an authentic record of that particular historical event One of the other challenges that we encountered was that uh, james blue was the cameraman who was actually taking footage of mlk's speech And he lost the sink so You'll notice that most of the film is close-up or medium shots Of people or events But king's speech is taken from a long distance and that's because he lost sink sound So as the speech was happening mlk's Voice and lips were not in sync. So what we were able to do is part of the restoration in 2013 was to actually Go all the way into the image and really tighten up the sink. So now mlk's Lips and words are back together again, which is what we're assuming that blue intended at that point in time I love that kind of nerdy words A lot of nerdy stuff I commend to you the long blog post that she has Posted on the national archives website where she describes in great detail The restoration process a loving restoration process because it was quite clear that what you did was to Restore the film to its beauty. So we really do appreciate what you've done Professor jones The march on washington now as it fades into history seems to be A hallmark card where there are people that seem to be hugging and loving one another But there were some real pragmatic goals So what were the goals of the march on washington march on washington for jobs and freedom? What were some of the goals that that were important? Yeah, so there were 10 official goals or demands of the march and They began actually with the with a comprehensive civil rights bill Which president kennedy had actually already introduced to a bill proposed a bill and supported a bill So that was sort of the starting point and it's important to keep in mind that The the rest of these demands were actually building upon that bill and adding to the bill So they wanted to make enforcement of the civil rights measures Much more powerful giving the federal government the ability to To take funds away from local governments if they discriminated against Against citizens they wanted the integration of all schools by the end of of 1963 So this was august, right? So they didn't they they didn't want it to take much time They they they coupled those guilt those goals, which were sort of building on kennedy's Proposal with With a number of really important economic changes. So they wanted to raise the minimum wage To a level that they would provide a decent standard of living They figured that was about two dollars an hour in 1963. That's about 20 dollars an hour Today they wanted to extend the minimum wage to all workers So the minimum wage still does not apply to agricultural workers. It doesn't apply to many domestic workers At the time All public employees were excluded from the minimum wage So they wanted to make sure that that applied to anybody Who went to work they wanted a massive federal jobs creation program that would create meaningful and dignified jobs for all workers Um The again something that that was not picked up on and put into legislation The last Demand official demand of the march was actually in some ways the first one Which was to pass a law what they they called in the program for the march and febc law a fair employment practice Law this was a law prohibiting employment discrimination And that was actually the primary demand of the original march on washington which a philip randoff had called in 1941 during the second world war That would actually be added to The civil rights law it became title seven of the 1964 civil rights act President kennedy actually vehemently opposed this. He believed that it would alienate mostly northern moderates Who would not support who might support a law that was targeting Jim crow in the south but would not support a law demanding equal employment opportunity In new york or in chicago So he thought it was not something that would be Part of the bill But it would ultimately be passed as part of the bill in large part because of the coalition that the march put together Thank you Miss bait yes the topic of non-violence is featured in jane's blues film The argument is made that Effective legislation can be passed if there's sufficient on non-violent pressure If that's if it's placed on Legislators could you discuss the role of non-violence in the civil rights movement? I think when people think about non-violence particularly today um, they think it's passivity and kind of weak and Ineffective and allowing people to push you around But I challenge everyone here to go online and look at the six principles of non-violence king in non-violence It is not easy Because it has to do with how we live our lives. It has to do with how we make decisions interact with people How we conduct ourselves as moral people So when we look at the people who were active in the civil rights movement and active in non-violence It may seem kind of punkish to let them hose you and all of that But it was it was tremendously difficult to do tremendously hard to do and remember we are looking at Young activists these men and women are in their 20s and 30s doing this not only challenging the government Challenging sometimes they're very families, you know king wasn't all that popular in his family and extended family when in 1955 when he led the Montgomery bus boycott and he didn't want to do it. He was 26 years old So developing this these principles mean changing who we are as people how we respect and interact with others and Guiding our lives in that way to the point of risking one's life Thank you. You're a wonderful answer One more question to our panelists and then I'd like for you to be thinking about a question You'd like to pose we have about 10 minutes for audience members to pose questions and we'll keep it to 10 minutes so as you're listening to Miss Kovac's answer to the following question be thinking about a question that you might want to pose So my question is what would you do if you had unlimited money? and unlimited resources to restore or upgrade James blues film in general Well, first I'm miss austin now, but thank you Yeah, thanks to this fine young man But uh, it's my woman Better change your email But uh, so one of the things that uh occurred in 2013 is we didn't have storage digital storage at the archives So when I did the restoration in 4k, I was not able To save the 4k files. So now we only have hd files And as you all know hd is is sweet and old So I would like to go back and actually rescan it to be able to keep those 4k files Um, and then the tools now are a bit more advanced. So we could do Even a better job of removing like some of the defects that had been introduced just over the course of time The other thing I would love to do in my in my heart of hearts is see if they're if the people that are in the film Could somehow be identified by their family Or their, you know friends um at this point a lot of the people would probably be in their 80s or 90s, but uh And I don't know if it's because I literally spent hours with these people It took me about 140 hours to do the restoration, but You know, I got to spend so much time on these faces and really zero in on You know the characters that are there. I would just I would love to know What happened to them and who they are Thank you We now would like to invite questions from the audience and some of someone from the staff will have a microphone She's ready Well, I get a chance to tell my clarence jones story David who's speaking Hi, good afternoon while we're figuring out who's going to be next Good evening. Oh, you're there. Okay. All right. Go ahead. You may mention about um The pageantry of the march and the idea of how non-violence is looked at as a kind of um soft way to engage So you have about 10 minutes for questions Yeah, I like for you all a comment on how king's speech and his legacy has kind of been sanitized These days and speak more to some of his other speeches and how He was really a almost a militant Engaging kind of person and this new image of him that kind of white washes his legacy Sure. Okay. Um, I mean, I I think you're right about the sort of the way in which his his legacy has been Sanitized In part, I think that the way in which we've sort of lifted up this particular speech Um and forget that I mean, it's important to remember that this was the last Speech of the day and so his goal was not to tell people Why they were there what they wanted his goal was to lift people up and sort of send them home Re-invigorated right and he did that in a very powerful way Um in his in other speeches when he's there to tell people what you know What the demands are and what um end of sort of fire people up. He does a very different thing So if we look at his other speeches Um, they they say very different things if we look at the other speeches that were given that day Um, you know at the Lincoln Memorial, they're also very specific about what the goals of the march were In a way that his his final speech, you know, it was not intended to be So I think you're absolutely right about the way in which I think actually this film does that to a certain extent By I mean, you'll see that it cuts very quickly to King's speech We see very little of the other speeches and I think that was part of A process of starting to change the memory of the march And I would say for this particular Film also it was not meant to be shown in the u.s. It was only meant to be shown overseas um as an example of You know quiet non violent protest So what you're seeing is the You know sort of the fear and trepidation that the march wasn't going to happen at all And then the joy that it did happen and then king's speech at the end and the hopefulness Because that was the that was the message that the u.s. Wanted to project overseas But suppress at home So i'm telling my speech story now Um 2015 the march on washington film festival had an event on this very stage And clarence jones was one of the presenters clarence jones was dr. King's attorney personal advisor And often gave him ideas for speeches Clarence jones harry bellafonte and stanley leveson were The trio that supported dr. King in private matters So king is a leader of this movement But he can't tell his fears to the folks working with him because he's the leader These men helped him king would speak and turn the money over to the sclc But if a mortgage payment was needed one of them would help so they're that kind of friends You know the rider dies so one day harry bellafonte calls Clarence jones and says we're getting some money from David Rockefeller I need you to go to new york to the bank and pick up the money and bring it back down south to the office So it's i think it's a saturday. Well, you know back in those days the banks weren't open So clarence jones told us this story about going up there going to 30 rock Which was the headquarters for the bank It's empty and he goes downstairs and there are a few bank officials there the vault is wide open And there's a table and they take him in money is wrapped up in stacks And they give him the stack and he puts it in his bag and as he's leaving they say wait a minute you have to sign for it So he saw what he had to sign and it was saying this money will be repaid back in 90 days But because he was sent to get it he signed it And left went straight to a phone booth called harry bellafonte and said man, they made me sign for this money He says harry said better you than me brother So He takes the money back Downs out to the office a few days later A letter comes in the mail opens it up and it is that same promissory note stamped paid in full He used that Episode to give dr. King a paragraph and you'll hear dr. King talk about how the united states has signed a Promissory note, but when we go to get the funds it comes back insufficient funds Dr. Jones said it was the first time that dr. King ever took something He wrote in his entirety didn't change it and used it in a speech and that's where that came from Yes, thank you very much for your initial remarks and for that very funny story as well Now at the time of the civil rights movement There was a split it seems between those who supported a nonviolent approach such as dr. King And john lewis and the student nonviolent coordinating committee and others and those who favored a more sort of assertive aggressive perhaps a violent approach Malcolm x is often sort of seen as one of those figures In what way is dr. King's speech during the march on washington responding to some of those sentiments Within the civil rights movement that supported a more militant approach or does he not engage with those sentiments at all? Yeah, just say something before someone else better suited answers that Snick was the part of the sclc that moved away because those young people wanted a more direct approach So I wouldn't say radical to the one point of picking up guns But they felt that the sclc was moving too slowly in a sense And so that same film I mentioned before They went to lounges county to help people register to vote in a town that had a majority black population and no representation And during that time as they were speaking the expression black power came up before it went to california before the panthers It was down south that that first came to the fore So there was already a kind of a division between snick and the lclc, which is why john louis didn't stay with snick I would point you to The report made by the fbi The day after martin newton king jr. Delivered his speech The fbi declared martin newton king jr The most dangerous negro in america not malcolm x because the white establishment Wanted the black at african-americans to respond with violence because they had so much more power Than the african-americans did at that time more guns And so king made an moral argument in favor of non-violence as well as a pragmatic argument And it was an argument that the african-americans Had in the larger movement Eventually malcolm x and martin wither king jr. May have agreed on goals and aspirations And malcolm x was a very articulate smart savvy Observer of the political scene and he understood later in life that violence might indeed be counterproductive Yes, this my name is felicia manz and um, this is for miss austin Right miss austin. Yes. Okay. Um, first of all for the entire panel. Thank you so much for what you've presented to us this evening I I particularly have learned some things already However, you asked about going through those hours of that documentation our mother is 92 almost 93. She was there in 1963 and We have four generations of our family here, but she's a great great great grandmother And um, we were here 10 years ago For the march and we've all returned again this time minus the little one you saw I'm really intrigued by your time and effort and all of that and if you do have the time at the end of this I implore you to talk with my mother and we have evidence Of her representation because she was on the back of the program. We have that with us Yay A deep historical question When the word first came out That there was going to be a march on washington How did the cabinet? react And inside How did johnson react? How did kennedy react? to What was about to happen and how did their minds get changed? I'll just answer a little bit of that. You know that this was not the first time a march had been suggested a philip randolph one did one in the 1940s And was talked out of it. And I think there was a similar reaction at first. This is dangerous We're not sure we want all those people there at the time of dr. King's march as well Yeah, I mean the kennedy administration did everything they could to try to prevent the march from happening Repeatedly meeting with the with initially with a philip randolph and dr. King And and leaders of core The sort of the more militant organizations that were that were planning the march They actually enlisted Roy Wilkins who was the head of the nwcp Walter ruther the leader of the united auto workers to meet with them in wash in the white house with kennedy and try to talk them out of Having the march the position their position was essentially that That the march would result in violence. It would sort of strengthen opposition to a civil rights bill in congress And so it was the wrong time They and up until the very last minute kennedy Was opposed to the march when when he was convinced that it would not that he could not convince them to Call it off then he he put sort of moderate support of the administration behind the march But but it was really after he was convinced that there was no way that they were going to call it off Thank you. Yeah, we have time for one more question Hi, i'm a certified master tourist guide and love taking people to dr. King's memorial and to the lincoln um I normally refer to the mehalia jackson story that she is the one who hollered out to dr. King tell him about the dream Is that what your research believes is true or do you have other research that indicates there that came up another way? All right, so this is this talk with clarence jones This morning in front of the lincoln memorial He confirms that he was standing right behind king as he delivered the speech He heard mahalia jackson say to him to to a king tell him about the dream tell him about the dream so that is We have a witness an ear witness to to that fact and your research shows the same. Yeah, yeah Wonderful. Thank you so much and you will see in the film if you look carefully Bired rustin to king's left And you'll see mahalia jackson to king's right And I think that's among the only photographs or visualizations of both People key people that we have as a result of jane's blues film Well, thank you so much for your questions and I thank the panelists We know We now invite you to watch the film at home and we will watch it here in the theater