 I'm Rusty Kamori, and this is Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Punahou Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years. We were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. My books Beyond the Lines and Beyond the Game are about leadership, character, and creating a superior culture of excellence, which is what this show is all about. My special guest today was the former NFL head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, St. Louis Rams, and Kansas City Chiefs, and his 1999 St. Louis Rams team won the Super Bowl. He is the one and only Coach Dick Vermille, and today we are going beyond coaching. Hey, Coach V, welcome to the show. Nice to be with you, Rusty. It's been a while since we've been together. Oh, I miss, you know, we want you to come back to Hawaii. Hopefully that's going to be soon, and I want to get right into it, Coach V, because you have so much wisdom, so much knowledge, but I want to first ask you, why did you become a coach? Well, actually, I think I was inspired by my high school football coach, a young coach, coaching his first year out of college, came to Kalistoga High School in the Napa Valley, and coached our team. We only, you know, 130 kids in the whole school, so he came there and he really impressed me, and you know, I sort of said, you know, I'd like to be like him, and he was the first person that had ever told me I could play college football if I wanted to, so that sort of stimulated me, and then as I went on into junior college and got going thinking about education and what I was going to do with education, I kept thinking about Bill Wood, this football coach, and so I said, you know, I think I'm going to be a high school football coach. That's what I want to do, and that's where it all started. Wow, and you succeeded big time at every level of coaching football, and I want to ask you this, Coach V, you know, there's many assistant coaches who are successful as an offensive coordinator or as a defensive coordinator, and then when they become head coach, they fail. Why do you think that is? Well, number one, they didn't have enough good players on the team that they took over. That's the number one reason. Players win games, not coaches, but the number two reason probably is they didn't have any innate leadership abilities that transcends coaching a specific position, but that moves in through an entire organization, entire team, or if it's high school, the high school, if it's a junior college, it's a junior college. It's division one, UCLA. It's fitting into that program and then into the NFL, and I think, you know, if you're not a leader in regardless of what profession you're in, it's tough. Yeah, now I want to ask you about your 1999 St. Louis Rams team. I mean, you guys won the Super Bowl that year, and what are the reasons for that? Well, I think the number one reason we won the Super Bowl is when it's all sudden, then we'll have five NFL Hall of Fame players on one side of the line of scrimmage on the offense, you know. Kurt Warner is already in the Hall of Fame, okay. Orlando Pace is already in the Hall of Fame. Marshall Faulk is all the way in already in the Hall of Fame. Isaac Bruce is going in this year, and next year it'll be Tori Holt. So it was hard to screw that much talent up, really. But I think the overall process of building a culture of hard work, togetherness, love each other, compete with each other, and be unselfish and make a contribution collectively, both physically and emotionally, to an organization was built over the first two years in losing and handling the losing in a proper vein that allows you to continue to grow and get better even though you were losing. In practice, many times I once thought you learn more by losing than you do by winning. And I think that, in then adding new coaches, you know, Mike Martz came and took over the offense and did a great job with Al Saunders. And these kind of people, Jim Hanifin was there. I had, you know, Peter Junta, John, I had a good, a very experienced, fine coaching staff. And without those kind of people, you know, it's hard to build a winner. But players number one, you've got to have the people. Now, you guys, I remember watching your teams and that team became known as like the greatest show on turf. How did that make you feel? Well, it's exciting. They were exciting to stand on the sideline as a head coach and watch them play. You know, they were explosive. And I think we sort of set a trend. Our job was to take advantage of all the gifted players we had. And we had so many that each time we distributed the ball to somebody else, he made a big play. And it got so they were competing against each other to who could make the biggest play game day. And they took our coaching and our leadership beyond our own expectations. And really, no team has ever won only four games the year before and won a world championship the next year. Never been done before. And so they took great pride in growing. And the confidence level of that team kept growing as they met their own expectations and then started to exceed them. You know, it became infectious. You know, I think confidence when it becomes collective creates momentum. And that's really what happened with that football team. I can remember telling them, Rusty, I can remember telling them after we beat the 49ers, first time in 17 games, beat the 49ers. And we really played well. And the Monday after the game, I came in and was talking to the team and I said, you know, guys, there's only one team in this league that can beat us. And fortunately, they're all sitting in this room. If we don't forget how we got where we are right now and continue to work every day to get better and improve on improvement, no one's going to beat us. And they made that statement right. Coach Rhee, let's talk a little bit about your quarterback, Kurt Warner. It seems like you guys have such a special relationship together. And he was the backup to Trent Green. And when Trent Green got injured, Kurt Warner stepped up, you know, and he achieved greatness. Why did he achieve greatness? Well, first off, the innate ability was there. You know, I relate to a performance like Kurt Warner that year to a military guy being a middle of honor winner. You can't pick who he's going to be. But under crunch time, they get it done. And that's what Kurt Warner was. No one knew he had that kind of ability, not even me who brought him there and was coaching him. And you don't find out he has that kind of ability until he's put in the environment. And then he went beyond expectations. I thought we could play well because I knew we were a good football team by then. We didn't have any weaknesses. But when we lost our quarterback, all of a sudden we had a weakness. And I thought we could still win and play well. But I didn't know we could play like we could because if you don't have him, then you're not a world champion. And excuse me, he took our understanding of his abilities way beyond our expectation. But to his own credit, deep down in, he always believed he could do it. That's a little difficult. I like hearing that, Coach V. And I felt honored to have met you and your wife, Carol, a few years ago. And you have my first book, Beyond the Lines. And I need to get you my new second book. And you know that I talk a lot about creating that superior culture of excellence. And that's exactly what you do. And I want to ask you, your teams, the three NFL teams that you became head coach of, they all had losing records. And then when you became coach, you took all three teams to the playoffs within three years. Can you tell me about how you established your culture of excellence? Well, you know, I think first, people have to know you care. They have to trust you. And if they don't trust you, they don't listen to you. If they don't think you care about them individually and collectively, they don't listen to you. So it all starts there and builds from there. And then I kept trying to be a good example myself and hire people around me that would be good examples to the people they were going to coach and teach and push and demand and chew on and, you know, and beat around on that football field. That's very, very important. And the other thing Rusty is to bring people in the program that were good examples to the other people. You bring in a player off the road free agency or draft them. You're bringing the kind of player when he sits down next to the other guy in the locker room, he's a good example for him. And he starts feeling, you know, I want to be like him. I want to work like he does. I want to believe like he does. I want to speak. I want to talk. I want to interact like he does. Then I think you create an atmosphere within the organization that people enjoy working in regardless of how hard they're working. They really enjoy being there because there's good examples all around them. Everybody cares about each other. They aren't selfish. And all of a sudden they look forward to coming to work, even though it's going to be double days and full pads, you know, it really works. And then I think then you, and you know this because you've done it in your own career Rusty, you define what you're all about in every category. You have definition of purpose, definition of everything you're doing. And they know why they're working hard. They know why they're doing this. They know why these demands are put up. They know why they're being disciplined for these different things. Everything is defined. And once you get it defined, you have something to delegate to other people so that they, it's no, no good if the leader believes something, then the rest of the people around him that's helping you, they don't believe it. So when you surround yourself with the right kind of people and you delegate, you know, delegation is not a sign of laziness. I used to think it was. It's a sign that you have confidence and you have confidence in the people you're asking to help. Very, very important. And then, of course, the thing we were always did is we went to work. Sometimes it takes a while to teach people hard work is not a form of punishment. It's a solution. And you, you learned that in your years and career in training those kids to excellence and winning your championships and tenant, you don't work hard. You don't win because your opponent's work is hard. What you have to do is outwork them. I never wanted to, to leave the success in my program in the hands of people trying to outsmart people. Hard to do. I wanted, I knew we could outwork people. And once that gets in grain in an organization, yes, they'll bitch. They'll complain. They'll moan. They'll sweat. I mean, all these different things. But when it's all sudden done, they take great pride. And when the reward of hard work, it creates a good feeling within you. It generates into the program. And you talked about culture. To me, it goes one step further. It creates a community within that building, not just the culture of your football team, but everybody from the lady that answers the phone at the reception desk. Everybody is involved in that feeling. And they love it. And they enjoy it. And it's infectious. And it makes such a difference. And we worked hard at building relationships within that culture, within that community. Everybody. I mean, everybody was important. The guy that mowed the turf, the equipment man, the team doctors, every our security people, everybody was important. And we built relationships. And when you do that on a consistent basis, Rusty, and you know this, I promise you, you've had players say to you, Coach, I love you. You know, now it's not the same kind of love they have for their own family. But it's a hell of a lot more than respect. It goes deeper. And the only word they learn to use is love, because that describes an emotional feeling, how they really care about you. And the teams that I've coached to this day, I'm having coached in 15 years, to this day, when we're together, you hear the word, I love you, buddy. Love you, Coach. Love you, Trent. Love you, Kurt. I get an email or a text, my birthday a couple weeks ago, every text or email I got at the end of it, love you, Coach. You know, and that, when you build those kind of relationships, it's amazing. And then, Rusty, the other thing is, you can't build those relationships unless you're sincere. You know, if you have integrity, old expression, if you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters. You can't be as a truce. You got to be honest. And sometimes being honest, first feelings, sometimes people don't really want to know the truth. But when you're consistently honest with people, this whole program becomes a way of life. You know, like you said, it becomes a culture. That's the way they think. And you know this, nothing more gratifying to pick up a newspaper article or listen to an interview of one of your players, and they sound like you. You know, they sound like they've been vaccinated with your own philosophy, your own thoughts, your own emotion, and your own process. And that's really rewarding. And that's, that to me goes way beyond the technical access. You know, a lot of people know football, a lot of bright people in prisons. Okay. It's, it's putting it together like you have in your career, all these different, and you'll learn something every year. You learn something else. And you add a term to how you think. You add wisdom, no substitute. You add a better way to expressing it. I read your book. Okay. What do I get at? I say there's a lot of things that here make sense. And I also made steel comment, Rusty's way of saying what I believe is better the way I say it. And I steal it. I use it. And I've done that with so many people since I retired reading the books written by generals, you know, and different people that have been in true leadership positions, not educated with PhDs. They got PhDs and hands-on leadership situations, you know, on the battlefield and the football field in the different walks of life. And I've been inspired by those kind of people. Well, Coach V, I could listen to you for hours. I mean, that's such great insights you just shared. And, you know, my, the first time I saw you, you know, you were the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles and I'm watching your quarterback Ron Jaworski. And you were the coach of the Eagles for many, many years. What's one of the best memories you have as coach of the Eagles? Well, when you asked me that, the first thought that comes to mind is in 1979, going into our first, our fourth year, the year before we'd made the playoffs, we played the very first wild card game against Atlanta and got beat. Okay. Fifth game of the season, we are three in one. And the Pittsburgh Steelers are foreign old world champions from the year before. And they had a winning streak including the last year before like nine or 10 straight wins. In fact, I think they just broke or equaled it this year. And we beat them in Philadelphia, 17-14. That was like winning the world championship, the fifth game of the year, because your organization that we had no first, second, third round draft coaches for three years. And then the fourth year we beat the world champion in the fifth game of the season. To me, it solidified, verified, and cemented in my mind the way to do it and the way we were doing it works. Yes, it's old-fashioned. It's not done that way anymore. The union rules won't allow you to work like we used to work. Yeah, but anyway, that's the, and then after that in November, we beat the Dallas Cowboys in Dallas in a Monday night game. The first time in four years in my program that we had ever beaten the Dallas Cowboys, Roger Staubach, the quarterback. I remember those two things come to my mind more so than winning the NFC championship game in the fifth year. Oh, those were some exciting times because, like you said, the Steelers had Terry Bradshaw as their quarterback. The Cowboys had Roger Staubach. He threw us an interception. We turned to the one-yard line. It wasn't a long-scoring drive. Now, Coach V, you know that movie Invincible that they came out with about your Philadelphia Eagles team and then, you know, Greg Kinnear played you and then Mark Wahlberg was there. I mean, what were your thoughts about seeing that movie for the first time? I've only seen it once, Rusty. I've only seen the movie. We went to the Grand Premier in New York. My whole family went and we really enjoyed it. I was not involved other than reading the script before they started the movie and I can remember telling, calling the person in charge, I think it was Disney. And I said, you know, there's a lot of things in the script that aren't true. And he said, you know something, Coach, we're not doing a documentary. We're telling a story. Well, the story was true and they did a great job of telling it. I don't like to see myself on television. I don't like to see myself on film and I don't read things that I'm in and that kind of, I just never have. John Wooden told me that a long time ago and I've never left. Maybe it's an insecurity. So I've only seen the movie once, but I was proud of it. I thought they did a nice job. I have been told that they have grossed over $800 million on that movie, Disney hit. And I don't go anywhere, including France, where someone hasn't walked up and asked me about the movie. I see Vince Pappalli all the time. Okay, I talked to him probably three, four times a month and they did a great job. It's a movie you can take your grandkids to, you can buy them the DVD and it's inspiring because it is true, even though it's magnified in certain areas. You know, you don't go to NFL training camp and then play flag football the night at 11 o'clock at night. You're still in fact, Ben Jek is 11 o'clock at night. Anyway, they did a great job with it. Yeah, I totally agree with you. That movie was really inspiring. And Coach V, you know, what I learned from watching you as a coach was you were a coach that had a lot of passion for the game, a lot of passion for your players. You had empathy for your players. And I saw that press conference where you cried. And because you cried, it gave every coach in the world the right to cry as well. What are your thoughts about, you know, looking back and how much you cared about your players and do you still care about them today? Well, if you got to be who you are, the most important person to really know is yourself. I really believe, I've always believed that. And you learn a little bit more about yourself as you get older. And I learned a little bit more about myself as I matured as a coach. I have always been an emotional person. You know, I was relieved not too long ago reading General Schwarzkopf comment when he said, you know, I don't worry about those that cry. I worry about those that don't. And that, you know, I used to get into situations and Carol would say to me, now, Dick, don't get emotional. Don't cry. And I would say, all right, I want so I'm standing up to trying hard not to get emotional. And it's not me. It's not me. You know, to me, coaching in high school was so much fun. And I enjoyed it. And they were kids. And I enjoyed them so much and cared about them. And they cared about me. Some of them are still lifelong friends. Okay. And I just never changed because I couldn't because that's me. And I cared about and I'm not bragging about it, just me. I cared about Kurt Warner every much as I did. Ray plate. Ray plate was my high school quarterback. Okay. And made all conference to play. Well, I didn't let him throw the ball enough. We might have won by better scores. But anyway, you know, it's just it's just you if you're going to be a leader, you got to be who you are. You know, I just said them and that's in it. Sometimes I felt it was a weakness. And not a weakness, but a fault sometimes because there's no question that's a few times in my running an NFL team, where my relationship in my love and admiration for a certain player kept in there a little longer than he should have kept in kept there. Okay. In terms of the overall progression of a team. Yeah, I like it being real and being authentic. I mean, that that's so important for coaches to be like, because the players will know if you're not real and authentic. And coach V, I, you know, a few years ago when I met you and Carol, it was because our good friend Craig Holbrook put together an incredible vermel wine tasting dinner at the Pacific Club. And I absolutely love all of your vermel wines. And I just feel like that your Cabernet is a Super Bowl winner. Now, tell me about that. Rusty, it's better today than what you were drinking before. You know, I remember being at that event. It was one of the best events I've ever been to with vermel wine. We sold all the magnets we brought there. Dr. Miyawaki, he was he's Dr. Miyawaki, your native area right there. He's one of the finest gentleman I've ever met in my lifetime. I mean, I hold him very, very high esteem. And that was a great dinner, extremely well done. But you know, we're a little guys. And if you have a great winemaker, you have a chance. If you have a great vineyard, you have a chance. And our consultant, Thomas Brown is, to me, the equivalent of Tom Brady in the Napa Valley. Okay, he's he's great among other greats. And while our winemaker, Andy Jones, who works with it closely, they do a great job. Freddie Annie Vineyard, the greats, I've been involved with that vineyard all my life. My great grandfather on the Italians that on my family owned a portion of it a long time ago, same families had it for over 100 years, 178 years. Unfortunately, this year we lost all our Cabernet grapes due to smoke damage during the forest fires. So we won't have any 2020 Cabernets better save your 2021 had 19s and 18s and the 18s are due to be released too. And I think they're going to be our best vintage ever. But in the wine world, we try to do the same thing we did in the Napa, be the best you can be. And don't worry about how much money you make or how much money you lose, we've never broken even yet in the business, but just present a great quality and then everything else will take care of itself. Coach V, you spent many years in the broadcast booth and you work closely with Brent Musburger. What did you like about doing some of those TV broadcasts? Well, first off, it kept me close to the game and Brent Musburger is a very bright guy and a great person. He grew up in Montana and he loved football. He loved football and it wasn't just the job with him. And we developed a very good relationship over the eight years and we worked together. We did a lot of football games, mostly college games with pro NFL playoff games and working with Gary Bender was great to work with. And all these guys were, one of my work with Tom Brookshire, you know, and it was fun. They kept me close to the game and I could always respect the guy I was working with. And I had an advantage, Rusty, in that other coaches knew me as a football coach. So they would trust me in preparation. They would trust me with information. I would sit in on quarterback meetings, coaching meetings where TV people weren't even allowed, but I was a TV guy. But because of my background, I was allowed to do a lot of things that helped me do a better job. But Musburger was the true broadcaster. Gary Bender was a true broadcaster. Me, I was just a guy talking football. Well, I really enjoyed you guys. I mean, you guys made a great team, you know, on the, in that broadcasting. And coach B, I want to ask you one more question before we wrap up. What's what's an important lesson you learned in life so far? Well, you know, my grandfather Vermeer said to me as a young boy, you just have to learn to treat people as you want to be treated. And it seemed to me, there's no such thing as a celebrity. To me, everybody's a celebrity. Everybody's important. And I find myself now, the people in the more humble faces of their life, draw more out of me. I care more about them because I think back to how my mother and father worked to make a living. The old garage 25 yards behind the house, you know, six, seven days a week, nights. I mean, that true, the great American generation, you know, I'm inspired by those kind of people. I'm inspired about people that are struggling, but not complaining and not looking for a handout, but out working hard, provide for their families the best way they can. And, you know, the best thing you can pass on is integrity, you know, and people in the right frame of mind can do that. And I'm stimulated by those kind of, all my very, very, very close friends are people that are humble and really care about other people. Dr. Miyawaki, you talk about a successful guy, part owner of the Cincinnati Bengals, part owner of the Mets and what he's done there, but you talk about humble. You know, how I met him through Lamar Hunt, who was equally that kind of person, just humble, nice human being. And, you know, to me, I look up to those people. Well, Coach V, I feel so honored to know you and I feel so grateful that you like my book. And I like the next one, too. I'm going to get that to you very soon. And I want to thank you for taking time to be on the show today, Coach V. Well, thank you. I apologize again for screwing up last Monday when I was supposed to be on and I forgot it. And it's no excuse. I got outside working at chainsaws and my property here. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden I come in all dirty. In fact, I was so dirty, I had to take my clothes off with a porch. My wife wouldn't help me. I come down, I open my calendar. Oh my God. Anyway, that's what happens when you're 84. Well, thanks, Coach V. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. For more information, please visit RustyKamori.com. And my books are available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I hope that Coach V and I will inspire you to create your own superior culture of excellence and to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Aloha.