 Hey, this is Christian Buckley with another post collab talk tweet jam interview. I'm here today with John and John. Thanks for joining. Hey, no problem. It's the jam after the jam. Of course, we'll be jamming here. Of course, were you listening to the official soundtrack by Jans? I do not believe I was, no. Okay. Well, John, I want you to introduce yourself and then we'll jump into things. Sure. John Paluso. I've been in the Microsoft collab space here. Let's see. I built my first SharePoint 2003 server in 2003. So that's been a while. The Chief Product Officer for Avpoint in a Microsoft Regional Director. I used to consider myself not one of the old timers because I didn't get involved into SharePoint until 2005, and I felt like I was a late start to that, and now you're one of the old timers. I think we decided today, especially those of us that are more in the middle age, the older than a lot of the community to refer to ourselves as the elders of the Internet. I think we're taking that title. I always feel good when I walk into a conference room and there's a SharePoint person on the other side of the table. Yeah. Well, it's always been that way where having people that have the infrastructure background, you can be talking about software. You can be talking about you designing a new user interface. But when you have somebody that understands the pipes, the bowels of the system, someone who has lived through the pain, let's just say that. In that perspective, it's always good to have. Well, thanks. Today, it's always the annual, this is the biggest collab talk tweet jam of the year. We just closed out now our ninth year of running these, so January will be the 10th anniversary of the launch of this. We had, I don't know how many people were on the panel, there were like 70, 75 people. Answers were just flying by. It went very quickly. But it's always around the summary of the year behind us and predictions for the year ahead. Of course, there was some COVID talk and work from home stuff, but I think there were still some nuggets that were there. We're going to go comb through the data. Tigraph is a great sponsor and AppPoint now is a sponsor of these monthly tweet jams. Tigraph tools, and I'll provide the link. It'll be in the blog post as well. People should go take a look. If you missed the tweet jam, what's great is every single tweet in order time stamped, you can scroll through anybody that used the collab talk hashtag in this hour will be captured on that. You can literally just scroll back through all of them. I think I'm going to need it to keep track of what the heck even I was saying. Well, that's the fun thing is that people were saying, well, what did I predict last year or two years ago? They're like, Christian, do you have that data of what I predicted? I'm like, go do your own research, search Twitter saves all of it. It's all there. You can go and do a complex search query on Twitter and find everything that you said in December of 2019 as part of the tweet jam. Well, let's jump into this with question. Unlimited retention there on Twitter. Yes. Unlimited retention. Well, that's unfortunate for some people. That's why it keeps making news. Well, you tweeted back in 2008. Yeah, so. Permanent record. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So the question number one is, in your opinion, what was the biggest news for Microsoft 365 this year? So what are your biggest takeaways? I mean, I think you saw it, right? You saw it in the posts. I think my post was almost to the letter the same as someone else's. It's the adoption, it's the search, the link I tossed out there was the 115 million daily active users and teams. I think it was the move from looking into it. We're sort of, we've got one foot in the water. I literally talked to a gentleman at an organization. He was in the security team. He said they had planned their teams roll out for slowly over six months. He went on vacation on Friday. He came back Monday and teams had been rolled out to the entire organization. And I don't think that's an uncommon story given what I've heard. You know, it's another, I think along those same lines, I've done a number of interviews with some fellow MVPs, but some just some very large Microsoft customers out there that were surprised at how prepared they were for work from home because they had already the year prior leading up to this had been moving over towards teams and to be able to support this. And now they were still the, in fact, one of the companies I interviewed out of the UK, it's a big company that Microsoft highlights a lot, they had no plans. They were one of these companies that said, no, we can never do work from home. And so they were doing that rollout, but we're still in the office. And then they went completely 100% work from home and said, hey, even after this, when we open back up, we can do this. We can have this variant work schedule. Yeah, I think the validity of it, right? So the urgency of it was one thing. But I think what proved out, I see this internally at that point and I think I've seen it at other customers too is exactly what you're saying. This is a sustainable model. It's not just a reaction. And sure, we'll spend more time in the office. We'll have much more face-to-face meetings. That for me was the biggest downside was the face-to-face meetings, the conferences. I mean, Microsoft did a fantastic job and others did organizing virtual events. But there's just no comparison, I don't think. Well, and we'll talk. We've got a question on the community that acts out of it. Because yeah, I think there's a lot to talk about there. But you know what I think is interesting, the trend that's been happening, again, prior to COVID, was that even if you, I've been working from home for a decade. But even when I've been visiting customer sites and companies in Microsoft and participate in a meeting, you have like a third of the people that aren't even there. They're already dialing in. Like that was already happening. Yeah. And so yeah, let's say it's great to see that shift in thinking. I've been working in collaboration technology most of my career. Like back when I was working with another technology platform back in 2001 and we deployed a hosted collaboration solution. And here we were a company that's building this technology to allow people to remotely collaborate. And the policy was no work from home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and so we would we would sit in our cubes and not go into a conference room and do all of our meetings with headphones in our cubes. And we're like, why did I drive into the office? Exactly, you know, you know what? I mean, I think and this probably we're taking you off track here, but I was surprised and at point as a team shop. And we had, you know, we pretty much adopted soon after the preview came out. So so we've been at it for a while, but it was amazing to me how much camaraderie and social interaction you can have, right? Even dumb stuff, you know, the stickers, making your own memes, doing things like that keeps it's the thing that people don't normally think about. But, you know, when you have a widely dispersed team, especially, you know, when we're home all the time, it was it was pretty amazing to me how how how connected you can feel. Yeah, no, agreed. When we do this, we have a family chat. It's not in teams. But so I've got my four adult children and two of which are married. And, you know, so we have kind of a running chat that's happening and the stickers and the sharing of the main stuff is it's an important part of that. My team has some conversations where there's never a word. It's always just memes and gifts floating back and forth. Right. That's the way to make important business decisions. Absolutely. Absolutely. Finding that appropriate meme from the I.T. crowd or or the office or arrested development. Yeah, well, so question number two. So how has your out or has your outlook on Microsoft technology changed this past year? Why or why not? So I think this year, let's see. What I said in the in the tweet jam, I think is probably the the the most on the whole, no, on balance. I think we're seeing execution of a strategy that was put in place a long time ago. And so I think, you know, the evolution of teams, teams as kind of the primary place we're going to land and users in the office. Three sixty five service, the importance of, you know, citizen development, things like that. These are these are seeds that were planted a while ago. And so, you know, the one thing I agree with that I saw some people saying was it was nice to see operationally Microsoft be able to support the massive load that they that they have. And, you know, it's it's, you know, glib to make comments about, you know, your call dropping or audio quality. But I think it's been absolutely amazing for a service that's as young really as teams to be able to support that kind of growth. So so if there was anything surprising to me, I think it was that and and it was a pleasant surprise. I am noticing that, you know, part of what allow is allowing Microsoft to create these experiences as quickly as they are, is that they have a lot of these ready made components, right? You have fantastic file storage and file management and SharePoint. You have a really good identity model in Azure AD. Teams obviously brings the persistent chat model, but it can depend on these other services. And I think that that has been a benefit. I think we're starting to see some straining happening there as well, though, right? SharePoint is what it is. It's constructed the way it's constructed. And the thing we constantly say to some of our customers is, remember, SharePoint is still SharePoint. It's not just teams file storage. So if you have folks that are doing some crazy stuff, you can create quite a bit of a mess for yourself. And if you look at things like private channels, I think they came out the end of last year. But really, you know, moving into mainstream adoption this year, the fact that every private channel gets its own SharePoint site collection, you know, the fact that Microsoft raised the maximum site collection limit from 500,000 to 2 million this year, you know, gives us a sense of some of this stuff. So I think, you know, the same thing that has worked in favor, it'll be interesting to see over the next year how and if these things start to clash a little. Teams has to innovate. It has to move very quickly. Can these other services keep up in the changes that they need to make in order to support teams or does teams do more on their own? That'll be interesting to see. Yeah, agreed. I think there's a lot to go and do. It's nice to see the rapid pace of innovation on the front end and a lot of the capabilities that people want. But I think there are a number of areas. I mean, people have talked about, you know, limitations of the current team's desktop application. It's a great example of that and performance and that kind of thing. Solving some of these problems, which, you know, I would say, can honestly say, since the launch of teams, we've talked about the multi-tenant login issue and moving, you know, things like that, some of the limitations that were held to because of the desktop application that you don't have with the mobile app, for example. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, interesting. Yeah. I think if you also look at the complexity of because we've based teams on Office 365 groups, there is naturally now this organizational component I'm seeing in our own usage, and I'm sure others are seeing it too. There's a team we should be communicating in the team, but now this chat spawned over here, like it's easy for things to get away. Why can I have an urgent setting on a chat message but not in a channel message? Why can I pop out a chat message? John, that's a perfect segue. Let's talk more about this. For question three was, has the continued growth of Microsoft Teams, SharePoint, the Power Platform altered how you and your customers think about collaboration? That's a great example. Some people are aware of this. As MVPs and RDs, we had access to, there was a Teams airlift, the last one, the in-person one last year, and that was a great opportunity. I sat down with members of the engineering team at Microsoft that owned the chat capability, not the conversations in Teams, but you're the chat capability. And I talked about why is, for example, why is the chat technology, when I chat in Yammer, different from that when I chat in Teams, where I chat anywhere else that chat is available, why is that not the same technology that sits across all of those things, and then wherever it's managed, whether it's stored in Exchange or SharePoint or some other, whatever, let's consolidate that. You see some movement of those, like Yammer storage moving across, Stream storage moving over to SharePoint OneDrive. I mean, you're seeing some of those movements. I think chat is still a problem area as far as the storage and the story across those. But for that purpose, and this kind of gets to my point is, you know, we started seeing, it all comes down to search. If I go and search on a topic, a project that I own in my company, it's associated with a group that could be associated with a number of SharePoint and Teams locations in Yammer communities, whatever it is, I want to go search in one place and find artifacts across all of those things. And that's not true today. That's not possible. Yeah, I think that's true by having so many more places to have these conversations, even with the same people, right? There is some fatigue. I know I feel it of, where was that message? Where did I go? Where do I reply to that? Now, obviously, at that point, we're lucky enough to be part of some of the technology adoption programs for Teams. And there's certainly some exciting things that we've seen hinted at. So I think there's things to come that are going to help with this. But there is no doubt that there are times when I log on in the morning and say, I know that this conversation happened. I just can't find my way back there. I think we're going to get there. Or you heard the notification somewhere. Yeah. So I have my desktop and my two giant monitors and I have my work laptop next to me and my phone. And there was a ding and I was in the middle of the conversation. I don't know where the ding came from. And I'm looking across. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know that your adoption of Teams is on target when you have to turn the sound of the notification off on your phone because otherwise it just rings every two seconds. And mute conversation is quite a useful thing. That's like a default action now when joining a new team is to instantly mute the conversation. Unless I'm active within it and I need to be listening for that, I have to go and mute the sounds, the pop-ups, the all of those things. So I think that statement there. And I know there's a question on this as well. There's a lot of stuff here that happened very quickly. So this rapid adoption that we've been talking about, yeah, it's important. But there's a lot of detail here. And I think that there needs to be amongst both Microsoft and the user body. This is not something that people will always figure out on their own. We had a situation internally where someone created a new team. They created a new channel in that team. And it turned out to be a really important channel. It was about naming of a new product and using the technology right in that channel, the structure of vote and people voted. The problem was when they added the channel, they didn't show it for all members of the team. And so many people didn't know that this channel existed. And so these are the things, the hitting your shins on the coffee table stuff, that the technology is so new. It's important. I think that the work that you've been doing around community and getting the word out is important. But it's not all magic. There needs to be work. And I think that's where Microsoft has done a really good job with, especially the team within Microsoft, trying to get those adoption resources out there. Some of the ready-made resources and things like that they've been working on. I think we're really, really valuable. It just has to be done. It has to be executed on. You know this too as a SharePoint person that we've said this for years that a lot of what really helped grow and make the SharePoint community so strong was the lack of documentation and help coming out of Microsoft. Absolutely. We helped each other. And with the hiring of so many MVPs and community experts into Microsoft who said, we have to fix this problem. And I'll point to like, Karawana Agatimu is a great example. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we've been friends. She and I started SharePoint Saturday Los Angeles together back in 2010. And with all that, when she joined, I mean, she just saw that as a gaping hole and has been driving on that adoption and enablement topic. And so it's not surprising when you see people that live through it and railed against this aspect of Microsoft that are going inside and are adamant about fixing that problem. Learning pathways, man. If you don't know about learning pathways, go learn about it because it's right there for you. Well, speaking of community, so question four was with everything that's happened with due to COVID-19 and the evolution of Microsoft 365, what has been the impact to your local user group and community? Yeah, I think this has been the real negative for me. I think that, again, small, large, we've seen everyone try to pivot to these remote events. And I don't know, there's operational challenges to doing that, of course. But there's just a fatigue, right? I mean, there's such a thing as remote meeting fatigue. And I know myself, you mentioned the airlift last year. That was one of the most important events for me of the year. I learned things at that event that fueled tasks and goals for myself for almost 12 months. This year, unfortunately, the event was all virtual and I found myself having a really hard time, even though I couldn't imagine what they could have done better to try to do it. But there's just something that gets lost there. So I think that the fatigue of these remote events and the lack of real interpersonal communication, being able to pull someone to the side and have a quick chat with them, being able, being forced, I think it's also a self-discipline thing, right? It's easy to blow something off when it's remote as opposed to in person, where you've already made the commitment to be there, right? Yeah, it's hard to do that. I think even with the Microsoft community stuff, I mean, the local user group stuff, it's the exact same scenario. We're finding it's, we're competing, and now where you have, there's something going on almost every single day, somewhere in the world. And you're able to, I can dial in at midnight my time, if I'm end of my workday and catch sessions that are happening in India at an online event. And so there's constantly, there's speaking opportunities. So to go and do essentially a giant webinar and participate. But us as a local user group here where I am in Utah, we're just kind of saying, well, we've done, this would have been our 10th February, would have been our 10th annual event. And we've canceled it from February. We're hoping to do an in-person or hybrid event in August. But we're just saying, you know, it doesn't make sense for us to go and compete and pull in speakers where there's another Southern California event happening the week prior to that. And so it just doesn't make any sense. I don't know that we're really providing value. We'll go support, participate in those other events and push people towards that. But it's just kind of changed the needs. Interesting, right? And this happens anytime there's this kind of democratization, right? The barrier to entry to having an event is lower when it's virtual, right? The expense is lower. And so while that is fantastic from a democratization standpoint, on some level, yes, the air. Where's the air for the next event? I don't know, right? Yeah, so I'm a music collector. So I understand this problem. When eBay was new, it was fantastic. It was suddenly I would find items that I'd been searching for for years. And fast forward five, six years later, those items that I was spending hundreds of dollars on were for sale for 20 bucks and multiple items there with no bids because everybody just flooded it. You have a bit of that. There's a great blog post. I know that you've probably seen it that Mark Rackley wrote about not recording some sessions and protecting the IP of the speakers. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Anyway, who amongst us hasn't seen our slide in different colors on some other presentations? Right, right. Well, question number five. So getting back into the products, what three features available now are publicly announced or having or will have the biggest impact in 2021? Yeah, this is such a hard one because it's so perspective based, right? I think, I mean, so I'll go from my personal perspective. Yeah, that's what I want. That's the only thing I can do, right? So I think that finally the introduction of a real conversation migration API with this import API that Microsoft Teams is creating, it's in preview now, finally gives us a real quality way to do migrations into Teams where you're coming from a some other platform with conversations. Up until this API, because of the ability to support conversation level, post level API calls, Microsoft really tamp down on an ISV like us being able to give you full fidelity or near full fidelity live conversations. So if you were coming from Slack, you're coming from another tenant in Office 365, best we could do is basically give you a historical copy in a document. But you archive it and you make it searchable, right? Yeah. But being able to play that back with full fidelity, which is what this API promises, there's definitely, it's not going to be the right thing for every situation. There's some real requirements around it. It doesn't do very well with incremental updates over time. But as a way to really capture that information that was in your other tenant or in your Slack channel and move it to Teams, it is a game changer on that one. And I know there's been lots of organizations asking for this one. That's similar to conversations a few years back about moving an in-state workflow and being able to start that up again. Same issue where you almost need to use like Teams now has the archive function and it's limited in its capability, but essentially freezing things. So you get things to quiet down. And then when you do the move, there's less chance that in between that migration, that stuff happened and so makes it a cleaner move. So it'll be interesting to take a look at that. I think also private channels. Again, that was very tail end of last year, but really this year is when we first started. It's very controversial. Even using it. Super controversial mostly because of a SharePoint people like to gripe a little bit. But also we didn't know, to be fair to the community on that, we really didn't know how Microsoft would actually architect a solution. We talked about, we heard about as MVPs, but they had a lot of decisions. They got some of that initial feedback of what it would actually look like. And I actually, I held back on my commentary. I'm like, we need to see what it looks like. Yeah, I blog on this at the time. But I understand why there was such controversy there. The separate SharePoint site, the way that membership is managed, the loose connection sometimes between the moving parts. I understand all of the controversy there, but I continue to say that I think at every stage, they did make the right decision of all the options that were available to them this was the best given the requirements. But again, I think it goes back to that first thing that I was talking about or the second thing I was talking about. You do see some of the strain, right? SharePoint was built to be its own thing, right? It's a site is the site. And now we have this concept of there's multiple sites associated with a single working group. So I think private channels are really important. I think we still need more flexibility than we have. So, you know, we'll see what happens there. But that's the first one where, gosh, why do I have to now have a separate team just to talk to these management people, right? When every other bit of our department business is happening in this team. So I think I thought that was interesting too. And obviously from a competitive standpoint, it was a must-do. I think by a factor of two private channels was the most requested feature in teams. Right. Well, the one thing I will add in there, I mean, there's a few other items that are personal comments as well, but probably the biggest thing I think will have a huge impact. Still a lot of work to do, but it is task management. Yes. Oh, that's fair. We started to see the aggregations of Todo and Planner, and there's still disconnects with Project, whether Project Online or Project Desktop. But we're to see integration between deeper integration with Outlook, and there's new Outlook on the web capabilities, and a lot of people that create, generate tasks out of OneNote, and want to see that map across, not just to Outlook, but into Todo and Planner and the relationships there. I think there's a lot of room for movement. So I got into the information management space through project management technology. So it's something that I still think is so critical that Microsoft owns all of these important tools, and yet no one dominates the project management technology space, not even Microsoft. Yeah, absolutely. And even the small scale, right? The day-to-day. You mentioned the integration. I think the tasks by Planner app that's in Teams now is fundamentally an amazingly good thing to try to bring the pieces together. I know for a fact that my group has moved off Todoist onto Todo and Planner because we now finally have the things we need to do that kind of lightweight task management. The dark horse, nobody's thinking about it, but I'm thinking about it. The Todo APIs are out. So being able to create my own lists for my application in Todo, being able to create tasks programmatically from a different application, that's something that I think is going to be really important and it's kind of not a lot of fanfare, right, amongst the other things, but we're already looking at it and saying, you know, how far down the line in task management do I want to go in my own application versus just going ahead and feeding a task into Todo, which will feed it into Teams by extension and connects it to this whole ecosystem? Well, like I said, there's a lot of opportunity there. That's a whole topic in and of itself. We've done tweet jams on task management topics. That's the beginning of this year. I think January, February of this year we did that. But anyway, well, let's move it along. Question six, what are your predictions for Microsoft 365 from related technologies in 2021 and beyond? Obviously, hashtag no leaks. That's the hard part, right? That's the hardest part. Because I'm trying to, I always, I get into that as well, where like I don't want to say something like where did I have that conversation? Was that a off the record one-on-one with the Microsoft person? Was that an official MVP, NDA discussion? Or was that public? And so I'll have to go and look like, oh, I see there is a blog post. I could talk about that. I always bing it with Google before I do any predictions. The official sponsor of Google search, Bing. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so prediction. So I think that number one, not a surprise, right? Some of these changes are here to stay, right? So once you get users in, you're not going to get them out. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, right? So I think that whether or not the work from a home model stays consistent. I think that you will see the technologies that were necessary and implemented during the lockdowns. They're going to continue. I mean, there's no doubt about that, right? I am hoping that you'll see some consolidation. I do believe you'll see some consolidation with as many people that have access to Teams now. It amazes me that some of these folks are still, okay, but we do meetings in WebEx and we do this over in this thing and oh, we have this for instant messaging. I had a customer that was having trouble because their meeting invitation sent from Teams don't show up right in their Gmail. And it's like, what are we doing here, right? So I think that this will finally be the year, now that the technology is in front of everybody, where people outside of the inside start to really see, oh, Office 365 is not a product. It's not a thing that I use just like I use this, right? It is intended to be my Microsoft Office of the modern age, right? People still use, I can remember, I'm old enough to remember, people still using Lotus123, right? Even though they owned Microsoft Word, but once Office came out and really became a thing and packaged together, right? People realized fairly quickly that I didn't need to go buy that other product. I think we're gonna see a lot of consolidation across service. I'm still a little bit upset about the move of Excel away from the proprietary macro language because I was an expert back then. What was that, 92, 91, 92? Yeah, they moved your cheese, that's for sure. That's right. Well, last question, and this is always fun to go back and look at the responses to this. If you give one piece of advice to Microsoft leadership and to product teams regarding Microsoft 365, what would it be? So I'll quickly move through the answer I gave in the jam and then I'll get to my next one. The one I gave in the jam, I have to beat the ISV drum, right? Just because of that's who we are as an organization. Companies are going to need last mile support, right? And a lot of times that is complimentary products. So when a new technology comes out, when we're looking at things like innovative new technologies in Office 365, sensitivity labels at the site group and team level, great. But I don't yet have the ability to have the same level of interaction with that as first party. The API set is not fully built out for that. So as customers come and knock on the door and say, hey, I really want to leverage this technology, they're looking for ways to operationalize that. Microsoft has done a very good job at the citizen developer level, at the PowerShell level, I think in allowing people to do this. But I think that there needs to be a constant focus that they need to enable ISV partners to build around this functionality. It's critical. The Microsoft Teams team has been fantastic at this. The Graph API team, right? It's amazing to see the work that's being done there by our friend Jeremy Thake and others. He's building quite a team there. But I think across all the products, it's a really, really important thing. Now, here's my real beef, right? And I saw this one come up. Listen, the winds of change blow. We know that we're in a different world. When we say we're going to do something, six months later, market conditions can change. We may change our minds. But I do think that at times, we've seen large announcements at major conferences that either don't come out for a year. I saw the same feature demonstrated at two consecutive nights, right? And then when the feature came out, it was different than it had been demonstrated twice. So I think there needs to be transparency. Again, some are better than others at this. There needs to be transparency because organizations need to plan, especially when the features affect things like security, compliance. And there's a few examples of this. I think unified labeling was once going to be retention and security. And then for really good reasons, they changed their mind, but they didn't make that message really clear that they changed their mind. And that's a difficult one because when Jeff Taper moved back into his role and we did the May 5th event and kind of talked about the future, and even at some of the MVP summits so behind the scenes. And he said, look, we're going to air on the side of oversharing on this. We're going to tell you things that this is what we're thinking. It may not be part of the forum enrollment, but let's have a discussion. So there was this transparency. And they also, and I'm not going to quote paraphrase Jeff or if somebody else made the statement, said, you know, we're really trying to get better about not announcing things that are so far out and above that those kinds of changes won't happen. And I think there was an effort for several years to try and do that, be more transparent, to only talk about things that they know were going to happen and they were sure of and otherwise be transparent about. We're thinking about this. Let's get some feedback from the community, the MVPs and RDs and things out there where now they are doing more of the in the future. And hey, we see this and it's getting back to what almost what Microsoft was doing 15, 20 years ago and talking to this big picture stuff that's out there. And then you're wanting to have for these major events a big surprise moment. I like the no surprise moments. You know, yeah, maybe you get more butts and seats for an event by I'm all about all of it, right? I'm all about all of it. I just think that the and I personally, I like the oversharing, right? I like that model. I like being able to see what may come. I think if you can pull it off, right? If you can generally hit your timelines, if you can have a mechanism to be crystal clear when those plans change. And I don't even need to know why they changed, right? It's nice, but I don't need to know. But just knowing that the plans have changed or that something is under delay. Again, sometimes better than others. But I think that's really important. And in part, it's a it's a psychological thing. We have for good and for bad, we've given up control of our own release cycles of our own, you know, decisions in some cases about if and when we're going to, you know, get a new technology. And so there needs to be a way to make the entire organization feel comfortable about that. And so I think that's the other thing is, you know, transparency on the back end. There's transparent in the front end is great, right? I'll look at all these cool things we're going to do, but transparency on the back end. Hey, here's why we didn't do it. I'm sure there's a good reason. I think the sensitivity label or the unified labeling one was the perfect one. There's a really good reason why they didn't follow through on the original vision that was positioned. That's cool, right? Just make sure it's well known. Right. Agreed. Well, John, really appreciate the follow-up. I know I've now sucked up almost two hours of your day today, but I'll let you get back into it. But I really appreciate your participation. And again, for everybody that says watching, so we're, you know, again, closing out the ninth year of doing monthly tweet jams, you can always find us out on Twitter. Anybody can participate. It's on Twitter. It's wide open using the collab talk hashtag. And these events are sponsored down by AppPoint and Tigraph. And really appreciate the support, continued support, and we'll be back in late January with the next one. So hope to see you there. All right. Thanks, Christian. Happy New Year. Happy New Year, everybody. Talk to you later.