 The craze got to hear about me and they said I'd gone down to meet a guy to buy some American dollars and he turned around and didn't turn up. So I'm standing at a bus stop because my car's in the garage being repaired and a guy called Ronnie Bender came by who I knew, a good guy. And he went, Chris, what are you doing here? I said, I'm waiting for a bus. He said come on, I'll give you a lift. Did he give me a lift home? So we got talking about, he was a next soldier, a regular army and all that kind of thing, really good guy. And I went home, had a cup of tea, knock on the door. And I went in the door, it's Ronnie Bender. And he said, Chris, he said the twins want to meet her. I went, Ronnie, do you need a few quid? You can have a few quid, I don't want to meet them. Because they weren't very well liked by the underworld. That's the truth. Because people, when they got older money, they'd read in the paper, somebody had just had it off, snatch, bank robbery or whatever. They'd go straight in and want their corner. So really they were called these ponces. Taxing people? Yeah, that's right. And people got Adam there. So when I'm saying to Ronnie Bender, I don't want him involved in my world really. But he said to me, your brother Tony's down there. I didn't know Tony was on their firm. Because I lived in Birmingham. I came down every two weeks, saw my dad and then went back to Birmingham, stayed the night and that. Anyway, Tony went down there and they were polite. I never ever see him get, you know, brutal with anybody or want to hurt anybody. They were always perfect gentlemen. And they said, Chris, we understand like you're in Birmingham. You've got some stuff going. I wonder if you'd help us out. So I said, how? They said, we're open the club in Leicester. Would you be interested? Bring some people over. So I said, yeah, I think I can do that. So I went away from there and went to the, what's the name, the, their club had a look, had a look around. It was nice, Gav. So I had to take people over there, people who spend money. And they were doing rather well. But then Charlie Craig said to me, who were good pals, he said, Chris, he said, don't tell him. He said, but we're getting in. He said, because they'll want it before we've even got it. Because they could spend money like water. And that was the way they were. And so anyway, the fact was that one day we're at a party and Billy O's nephew was another good pal of mine, Mickey Riley. They started on Mickey because they thought he knew and they were, he was telling me to keep my mouth shut. But he wasn't. It was their own brother was saying to me, Chris, tell them nothing because they'll want it before we got it. So anyway, everything was going well. I had a car pitch up there. I had at my car wash. I had all this kind of stuff going on. I was earning a lot of money. And a mate of mine, Ray Mills, said to me, Chris, he said, I'm going down to London at the weekend. Do you want to come with me? And I said, well, what do you mean come with me? He said, well, you can meet my brother, Alan, and I'll meet your brother Tony. And I went, no, I was down there last week. Another time we'd do this, right? And he went, please, just let's add this to one time. I thought, come on, I always go on against your better judgment. I should have, I should have gone my intuition. But I didn't. I went down there. We met in Lyon House. We went from Lyon House to a place called D Mark was Cornwallis on the Bethnal Green Road. And Mrs. Cray, old Charlie Cray, the twins Charlie and all them were there went in. We had a drink. It was an occasion for the old old lady. It could have been a birthday. So we spent some time there, pay our respects, come out and we go to the Queen's pub on the Hackney Road. We have a nice drink there. So by this time, it kind of well tanked up. So Tony said to me, look, Chris, let's go to the Regency. I said, look, I don't want to go to the Regency. I want to go to the West End, the best seller because plenty of birds down there. Atmosphere is good. Let's go there. And he went, no, let's just go to the Regency. She had never been there. Let's show him what it's like. And we went there and we're having a drink and Jack the Hat comes up and he said, there's a party. He said, are you going? I said, well, first I've heard about it. And the next thing I know is I'll get an invite to this party. So it must be about half past 12 now. So my car was chocker blocked in. There was no way you could get out. But Jack's car was able to get in his car. We got in his car and we got in the Regency Club. Sorry, every road, which is maybe two or three streets away. We've gone there, gone up to the door. Their cousin Ronnie Art opened the door and we go in, go down the stairs and Jack is in front of us. He runs straight into the room. Where's the birds? Where's the pie? And then an argument starts. Reggie K. pulls a shooter out, which he's admitted in his book he did. And it didn't work. I thought it was a frightener. But I didn't like what was going on because this shouldn't be happening. You understand what I mean? So I turned around to a guy called Connie Wyatt. I said, Connie, I don't want none of this. I'm going. And he went, Ronnie Craig came out and I said, what's the matter with Chris? He said he wants to go. He wants no part and Ronnie said take him home. So Connie Wyatt had dropped me off home. I'm sitting there with my dad. I'm having a cup of coffee and I think Tony's there. And I've always been very careful about Tony. Protective. From a small baby, you know, up to an adult. So I had a shooter there, 38, Webby. I went and got it, put it in my pocket and got a taxi down to Reggie. So he got my car and went to Evergreen Road. I went up and up to the door and Ronnie Bender came up. I said, Ron is Tony there. He went, no, Chris, he said he's gone. And I went to turn away and he said, Chris, he said, please don't leave me. I went, what do you mean, Lee? He said they've killed him. I said, no, not in front of all them people. He went, he said, he's dead. He's downstairs. I went, Ronnie, I don't want no part of this. He went, please, he said, don't leave me. And I looked him and I thought, you're a guy who's been in the army, straight guy. I said, where are they? Where's the twins? He said, they've run away. And I thought, they may have run away, but I'm not going to, I'm going to help you, you understand. And I went inside, went downstairs and there was a body laying on the floor. And I thought, you know, when you walk down there, there's no noise or anything. I thought he's going to stand up in a minute. He's going to be all right. I wanted it. I wanted him to get back on his feet. Do you understand? I wanted it not to have happened. And I, when I looked at it, you've got to face the reality of what has happened. I went outside and got some socks that were in a washing basket in the kitchen, brought them in. I gave Ronnie a pair. I put them on and we began to tidy the place up. So now I'm walking up the stairs. I knew she'd come back with a woman called Blonde Carol. And she said, hello, Chrissie, how are you? I said, I'm all right. I said, you can't go downstairs. I said, there's been a little bit of a argy bargy. I said, and we're having a tidy up. But I've got a bucket full of water and blood in my hand. And she saw it. And now I know she saw it because she gave evidence to the fact. So I've already been up to the bedroom previous to that and got an hiding down, which is downstairs. We wrapped Jack up in it, went upstairs again because facing the house was a, on a side street, was a bagel place, which is Jewish, like roll things. And all the cab drivers in them days were Jewish, most of them anyway. And they were all, they're going all through the night. So we got to find a place where there's no traffic of our to get that body out and get in the boot. So finally there's a break and we try to get the body in the boot. Six foot man, you can't get him in the boot. So we put them in a back seat. Then we go back inside. We were tidy up. And I said to Ronnie Bender, I said, look, Ron, you're going to drive the car. And he went, because I'm not driving that car. Not with that body in. I said, well, do you think Tony's doing it? He ain't. Because Tony, by that time, I come back because my, he's gone home and my dad had turned around and told him I'd gone looking for him. Anyway, the thing that happened was Tony stepped forward and said, I'll drive it. I went, Tony, you crazy? He went, no, I'll drive it. So Ronnie Bender and I got into my car. Tony's got into the car, which had the hat in. And we followed him down to Mayor Street. But going down to Mayor Street, a police car dropped him behind Tony. Now, I am now worried that then police are going to stop Tony. And if they do, I've got to shoot them. You understand what I'm saying? I've got the gun on me. Yeah. So if I say that there's a comedy of errors, there's a tragedy of errors. A man goes down to a party. There's 16 people there. They kill him in front of them. 16 people. But apparently, because the gun didn't work, his cousin, Ronnie Hart, when he got a knife from the kitchen and put it into his hand, Ronnie Hart went up to the whole bay, he turned Queen's evidence, didn't do a day and had a reputation or a criminal past as long as anybody else. He was as guilty as Reggie Cray for what he did. Can you spell it, sir? He didn't do a day. So anyway, what happened then was he, we driving along, they turn off the police and we carry on. We go through a rubberized tunnel, we lose Tony driving around. I finally found him outside of church. The car had run out of petrol and all he said so. So on the pavement by the car, it's confetti, it's everywhere. And the thing was that I thought he'd be safe. The people would be going to church in the morning, they'd see the body in the car and they'd call the police and we'd taken out of East London, put it in South London. So they'd think whatever happened happened over that side of the water. That was the plan. We leave there, Ronnie Bender goes, drop him off. We don't know what he's going to do. He goes and sees Charlie Cray, Charlie Cray tells the twins, the twins involve somebody else to move the body and it is a bloody nightmare. That's exactly what happened. So then, you know, we carry on as normal. I go round the Mills brothers and other people and tell them, keep calm. You understand, it's all covered over. Things are going to be okay. Things are going to be okay. We don't know that the firm is crumbling. I was never part of it, but you know, it was crumbling. They were all backed by each other and all the rest of it. And so they started nicking people and they nicked the twins and they put them in jail. So I know they ain't going to say nothing about me. So I feel fairly confident that me not being associated with them, living in Birmingham, I'm safe. But I think myself, well, I'm going to go abroad. So I talked to a mate of mine, Johnny Hunt, and Johnny said, yeah, we'll leave tomorrow. And we were all set to go. But he'd been messing about and his wife got angry and all the rest of it. And he said, Chris, I can't go. Not with her the way she is. So that stranded me. So I went about my business as normal. The police arrested me in Warsaw. I was living in the hotel there and brought me down to London and talked to me, talked me to a place called Tintasio House on the embankment. They talked to me, said, we don't want to arrest you. We know you had nothing to do with this. Tell us about it. And I said, I can't tell you that. I don't know what you're talking about, party, what party? There's never any party. Anyway, give me a what's the name, his card, never read. And he said, look, there's my number. Give me a call. And we can sort all this out, neither you nor any of your family would do any time. I'll give you my word. Anyway, I left there. What I did was made a stupid mistake. I thought I'd go and mark Violet's card, the twins mum. So she'd be up visiting them and she'd tell them what happened. But there's this mother looking at me and saying, please, Chris, don't tell me, don't tell him. Please, I'm asking you. They're my boys. Everybody's deserted. And please go and talk to them. And it was like listening to my own mum. You know, this was a mother making a plea to me. And I don't know. I'd let my own mother down so many times because I'm going to let this one down. No. So I'll go to Brixton with her and a girl called Carol, Reggie's girlfriend. And I saw myself in his Mickey Mouse thinking I'm being clever. Yeah, being funny. Yeah. Anyway, I'll go in and Charlie Craig looks at me as if it's like, Chris, you shouldn't be here. This is the last place you should be. But Reggie and I are like, yeah, Chris, great to see you. You're looking, well, my husband's going and all the rest of it. So I said, look, be careful. I just went to a place called Tintagio House yesterday. They've got photographs of everybody on the board there, names and people marked off and all the rest of it. There's something very serious going down here. And I told you, that's the best I can do. Chris, great. Thank you very much. Keeps them. I said, don't have to tell me. Keeps them. I'll see you later. Anyway, left the visiting room, drove home with Mrs. Clay and, what's the name, dropped them Carol, dropped them off at Bunhill Row and then went away and was living life as normal. And about two weeks later, the police came up to Birmingham, shoot it up and everything, took me on the, what's the name, at the elbow room as I'm coming down the elbow room and brought me back down to London. So I said to one of the cops, what are you nicking me for? And he went fucking virgins out of season. Well, that's what happened. I was in the police inspector's house because I knew his son and him and I pulled a couple of birds and we'd gone back there and I thought that's what they were nicking me for. But apparently that was definitely not what they were nicking me for. So I took me back down to London, Tintagio House, Everly escorted, going there and Nippa Rita, and he says, well, he said, he was in Bricson a couple of weeks ago, weren't ya? What were you doing there? I said, went up to see the twins. After seeing me, I said, yeah. He said, do you want to talk to me? I said, no. I said, I got anything to say to you. I said, there was no party. I don't know what you're talking about. And I could see him. He was getting angry and he was playing with a gun and he ran around the table and smashed me over the head with it. And I said, yeah, is that, is that what you do? That's the cop on his room? Yeah, this is Nippa Reid, the top man, the top policeman, who nicks the craze. I know that he wants me to react. And I'm thinking, if I don't react, he ain't got nothing. He's so frustrated, he's banged me with that gun to get a reaction. And I'm not going to give him it. So anyway, I could see him getting angry and angrier. And he turned around to inspect the cater and he went charging. And Kater went charging. He said, yeah, with murder. He wants to be with a craze. We'll make sure he goes down with a craze. And that's exactly what happened, Jamie.