 Welcome to the show Andrew. Glad we could finally get you in. Unfortunately, we're not in studio. We are quarantining here in California How you doing pleasure to be here would have loved to see you in Joshua tree in some other places, but we'll make do yeah, we will definitely make that happen once we're out of our houses and When we first met I don't know if you remember this, but we had a pretty spirited discussion around technology and its impact on relationships and Johnny and I tend to take a I guess a more negative view of technology and how it's impacting our social skills and our relationships and damaging our mental health and you actually had a very positive outlook and we'll talk about a business that you started as well around This exact thing, but now that we're in this quarantine and we're relying on technology more than ever to communicate Do you still believe that? Technology can connect us bring us together and help us communicate or if you swung a little bit more to my side and Johnny's side here the dark side I Think that it all comes down to Intentionality, I think that what we're going to find very very quickly is again Just because we were on these tools and I can see your eyes and I can hear your voice Does not mean that we feel connected or we're exchanging anything. That's a value to either of us and so So much of my work in the realm of communication comes down to Intentionality is what is my purpose for being here? how do I want to show up and so you know again as we're using these technologies more and more if we are allowing the Architects of our digital universe to dictate how we are using these things putting the most beautiful images up top So we keep mindlessly scrolling putting the features up there They're gonna zap our time and attention into things that aren't really valuable for us. Then it's gonna be depleted It's not gonna be rewarding for us but if we become more conscious of these as tools and We're aware of how we want to use them and they can certainly add value to our lives You know so many people talk about studies about increased Facebook Instagram usage and how that that results in a decrease in subjective Well-being but there's actually must much less traffic Studies that show that for people who interact on those social networks in a different way if they're doing Active browsing instead of passive browsing then they actually show increases in their subjective well-being So just to make that more clear Active browsing is if you're actually on Instagram and you're commenting on people's posts If you're even better messaging those people then people actually show that those are positive experiences that improve their subjective well-being But if you're just sitting there passively browsing stalking Then it's obviously not gonna do something positive for your well-being and so I think that it's it certainly can be You know a boon in many ways for humanity, but we have to be much more intentional about how we're using these things Oh boy, we've opened up So let's just go into this idea active and as of active usage of Social media, how do you see it being built to where people will hit the wall and go? There's a there's a better usage For me and this technology as it's a great question I think that so the first part that I touched on was about personal responsibility It was intentionality. How do I want to use these things? But I think that there's also responsibility that lies on the end of like a user word the architects of our digital universe is the people who are creating these technologies and I don't know if you guys have had them on the podcast But Tristan Harris from the Center for Humane Tech who's an incredible guy And we were one of the first companies that tribute that was listed on on time well spent But what they what they point out is again is that the metrics that most technology companies are optimizing for are Not aligned or correlated at all to the actual value that users are extracting from that experience So an example of this again is let's just use Instagram a lot of people have seen their Instagram uses jump up during COVID-19 So if you're a designer or a product manager at Instagram, the things that you are optimizing for is time on site is Sharing it's return usage So these are metrics about how much people are using their app and if you were to ask the normal person Do I feel better or worse depending on how much time I spent on Instagram? That's I feel better when I spend less time there So you immediately have this conflict where the people who are designing these technologies are not aligned with the actual value that people are extracting with it and so What what there is is there's a personal responsibility element of us coming into these things with Intentionality and purpose for how we're using them, but also a call to creators and entrepreneurs of which I know there's so many who listen to the show to ask themselves. What are the KPIs that that I am optimized for that allow me to build a successful business but are Fundamentally and foundationally adding value into our end user's life And it's why at tribute one of our favorite KPIs is Toj, which stands for tears of joy, which literally means that we ask people who have received the tribute video Did you cry tears of joy when you watch your video and 80% of those people we've given more than 500,000 of these videos cried tears of joy like another question is do you feel more connected to the people that you were involved in this video with And at that point it's 95% of people feel more connected in their important relationships So it's like how do we introduce this idea of human centered design and key performance indicators that are actually indicative of the value that people are taking out of these apps and to your point the problem with the current design is they actually Reward you for being passive and they block you and ban you for being active because active can lead to spam and some things That they don't want to see so if I'm an active user who just loves given out likes and comments And telling people how amazing and awesome they are which helps me and as we've talked about before the person receiving it on the other End also feels good all of a sudden Instagram or Facebook says hey stop like if you've ever tried to actively use The apps to that benefit you hit a wall. They have a blocker I think it's like 50 people on Instagram messaging a hundred people on Facebook So there is definitely a balance between your intent as the user But also the designers making it easy for you to connect and I know on Snapchat one of the features that I really enjoyed was the idea of keeping a streak going Encouraging you to use the app to stay connected to people. So there are use cases where technology can be put intentionally to help humanity but a lot of us find ourselves trapped by the Downside of technology where it is hurting our mental health and it's making us feel less connected and certainly in this period a lot of us are struggling with feeling lonely even though we have access to zoom even though we have FaceTime and I know some friends who are sort of tapped out from Being on zoom and being on FaceTime because it's not a good Representation of being in the room with someone and being able to sit in silence and being able to read their body language Well, you know, it's interesting because it's the way that we interact on screens Right is usually Oftentimes through the lens of social networks And so the image that we are portraying is the highlight reel is that one that's manicure that's got a filter on it And as we're looking at each other here is we're on zoom calls and conference calls. That's not that So there's this again this real kind of Difference between what we're used to sharing in this kind of digital realm versus what we're looking at right now It's why every time every week I get together with a number of men for this this online men's group and the first thing That I say to the guys who come in there as I say I want to remind you guys that you don't have to be any other way than Exactly how you're feeling right now if you're feeling exhausted and like shit and you just want to sit there Then do that like if you think someone here's full of shit No, tell them like and we have conduct about you do that But it's that it's a space of removing those expectations of them of like sure There's a code of conduct how we operate but you don't have to be any way You can just be how you are in this space and it makes a two-hour conference call like much more energizing There was something else that Along with this that I think all of us have to do a better job in recognizing which is This is all new technology and so once we realize Hey, the way we've designed these things is making people depressed a little bit more disconnected Well, then there's a then we're gonna read Jigger our trajectory and and and course correction to fix that and people were standing there You just go and get him out like y'all well You see these guys in Silicon Valley. They just want to go it this way and they're just sucking us a one They don't care when actually And you yourself are with Tristan are working on these ideas of how do we course correct? How do we fix this? We went too far in this direction and that's difficult for the average person to understand Because the average person doesn't think like an entrepreneur They don't they are not looking to see which way things are going and course correcting and tweaking things They want things to be I'm going this way. I'm going that way. I know what's over here And I know it's over here when all of this technology is this is this is all brand new Well, it's it's again. It's like if you look at There's there's a great deal of evidence to show that humanity exists in one of the most prolific and and beautiful times that we've ever experienced and at the same time there are statistics that talk about You know increased suicide and deaths of despair and loneliness and some of these more kind of interpersonal metrics of how we're living that are Going down that are plummeting and so how we measure our success as humanity is is really interesting of like there are some very Fundamental things that have improved maternal wellness poverty decreasing war going down Dictatorships and that's amazing. And so I think that now We have advanced to a level where we can become more aware of these interpersonal things like am I happy? Am I connected and as we become aware of those problems? It's one of the simplest ways to tackle entrepreneurship to enable anyone to contribute is because as those types of problems emerge There's more unity for anyone, but you don't have to create a business. You can create a hangout You can just create more depth their meaning in a zoom call You know, it's it's just more accessible to solve a problem at value Yeah, creating that space for us to be intentional and be real and be vulnerable And I think right now the apps aren't necessarily doing a good job but there are opportunities and and let's talk about tribute a little bit more because I Want to get into the core mission and how the idea came about. Yeah, man. Well, you know I'm I'm kind of smiling over here and I'm exhausted because my reality is that over the past two weeks I have been putting in 16-hour days seven days a week because our business tribute Which I'll explain in a business in a moment Has more than 10x and is growing by about 25% every single day And it's been non-stop and it's been a six-year journey But it's a pretty epic moment and we've onboarded 25 people in the past two weeks and it's it's crazy But this all started six years ago on my 27th birthday When I went out for a very low-key birthday dinner with my wife. Well, she was my girlfriend then Mickey now my wife and baby mama and We went out for dinner. I told her I didn't want to do anything special I just want to come back and hang out with her when we come back to my house We we get there and I open the door and I see like 30 pairs of shoes that I didn't recognize and I was like What's going on and then she gives the countdown three two one and 20 of my closest friends all jump out and surprise me and So it's this epic surprise party. We're having a great time then halfway through the party She gets everyone to our living room and she had rented this projector And so she puts this this image up on the wall and I look at I'm like, what are you doing and she's like just wait And she hits play on the projector And what I didn't know is that my wife had reached out to 20 my closest friends My family members and she asked each of them to submit a one-minute video telling me why they love me and how I've impacted their life and so I get goosebumps on the story I've told it and Sitting in the back of the room and the first person is my mom and she tells me how grateful she is that I Helped her to start a business and then it's my dad who tells me that he loves me and and I know that he loves me But he doesn't say those words a lot and then the next person is this is what took me over the edge is My friend Matt who told me he said, you know, you're my best friend and I was 27 I've been friends with him for three years. I I knew that Matt was my best friend But as an adult male it can be challenging to say those words as an adult man to get a new best friend But I got one and and he vocalized that in that moment I just lost it and I just just in the back of the room Balling my eyes out and for 20 minutes. That was just what I was doing was crying because I felt so connected I felt so loved and I came out of that I looked at Nikki and I was like, I think I just watched my eulogy at 27 Which feels like a much better time to watch the eulogy I was like, how did you do this and she says without hesitation It sucked and I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, well, I had to email these people hundreds and hundreds of times as collecting files who dropbox and drive I'd edit everything together in iMovie. It took like 15 hours and I walk into the next room And I was like, this is the most meaningful gift I've ever received it was terrible experience to create and one of the most profound experiences of my entire life and so What started is this idea to share this with the work like share this with people, you know Has grown over the past six years to you know Now we the New Yorker called us hallmark 2.0 a couple of years ago We've given more than 500,000 these videos and tribute is our video software that automates the process of inviting your friends collecting videos We automatically stitch them together and as you can imagine it's we saw in late March It's been just going kind of at a steady pace It's been a fun lifestyle business for us and then in March every single day I just started seeing it kind of like trickle up and I didn't even think about it for a little while I was like, oh, that's cool and then it just started going truly exponential and as you can imagine it's like Millions of gatherings being canceled from weddings to Graduations two million kids or so are gonna graduate this year who aren't gonna get to walk across the stage or hear their commencement speaker You think about we have mothers who are on the site who are going in to give birth without their partners You have funerals people are being buried without the presence of their families and so You we actually decided to to make the site Free for people about two weeks ago as well of just that this is an opportunity We created this that certainly we want to make money But also to step in at a time like this and say that just because we can't be with each other physically Doesn't mean we can't connect but we can't celebrate each other and so that's that's tribute and really Comes down to again that the role of appreciation and gratitude in our relationships It's like it's one of the easiest things you can do to connect more deeply is to if you have Love in your heart if you have appreciation for someone if it's a co-worker or a friend or a child It's that there's no reason to keep it inside and this is like the value of technology is that you can Create a context that makes it easier for people to express those things that maybe they've never said before and once you've You've let that out. You're more likely to get that kind of appreciation back You're more likely to do it again. So it's this beautiful snowball effect It's wonderful It creates space for people who may not have the ability to say these things in person They may not have the emotional Fortitude to not break down and share these things with you But they can do it over video and the best part is that memory is stored in the video It's not just you hearing it in person and putting it in your filing cabinet upstairs But you actually have the video to remain whether it's at work whether it's at hospitals If there's so many use cases again, we're sharing our appreciation I think is one of the most foundational things that we can do that we control to connect and I think for a lot of us We walk around feeling a little underappreciated Because we are scared to be vulnerable appreciate others. We don't get it back There's a reciprocity tied to it and we talk about this on the show quite a bit that you know It takes someone being the leader and stepping up and saying you know what I'm gonna start appreciating people Strangers friends and it has that ripple effect where the other person feels good You feel good for sharing that appreciation doesn't have to be selfish But studies do show that when we express gratitude towards others and we share how deeply those people have moved us We actually feel better internally about ourselves. We have higher self-esteem It's I mean you you are practicing gratitude, right? It's a if you look at the simplest thing that you can do to feel better It's it's establishing a gratitude practice. It's waking up in the morning. What am I grateful for? What am I looking forward to and so it's when you tell people why you appreciate them? However simple that is you are practicing gratitude You are going to feel better in the workplace people have shown that bosses who share appreciation Openly are gonna be more successful than bosses that do not it's been shown to motivate performance of employees and And I think one thing that we talk about a tribute as well is that you know, there's a We call it I love you because and it's I love you is a beautiful very meaningful statement, you know, I could say that basically like Mickey I love you and Walk out the door and she'd feel that and she'd get it But if I look at Mickey and I say Mickey I love you because you have been cheerleading me so hard this past week and you're taking care of hero I'm like being in ways the computer and I just so appreciate how you've been showing up It's that that layer of the cuts the why of how you share your appreciation Adds another layer of thoughtfulness to it that shows that you really mean it And so if you just add that that on to your experience or your expression of gratitude It's a really powerful way to not only make it more deeply felt for them But also for yourself if you become more aware of the appreciation that is that is in you Like even when I said that she just walked in front of you with our son and I was like man I'm so grateful for her right now And speaking of Mickey she on the show when she came to visit talked about this concept of social flow And I know it's another big part of your mission going back to this intentionality for those of us who Struggle socially finding our flow finding rhythm and feeling at times awkward Breakdown for our listeners what you mean by social flow and how we can achieve it Yeah, absolutely. So social flow is a modality that that I synthesized that I use at the beginning of all of my retreats anytime I'm hosting conversations intentional gatherings and eat just my my modus operandi, which is just a simple framework that allows people to tap in become present trust their voice and speak transparently wherever they are and so in layman's terms It's a it's a practical framework to feel good be yourself and inspire people and it's based off of this this four-letter acronym I can and it stands for intentionality curiosity authenticity now intentionality curiosity Authenticity now and so, you know, I use that example of Oftentimes I leave these men's retreats and I have this weekly town hall for men And so when the men tap in these are our communication expectations and so intentionality you can just think of that is How do I want to show up while I'm here? So while I show up and I look you guys in the face I want to be super present. I want to be authentic. I want to be excited and energetic So there when I put my attention onto my intention. I Manifest that energy in the moment, you know, and I think about my purpose why I'm here It's like I want to share practical Frameworks about how people can feel more confident how they can connect deeply how they can share their love more openly So when I focus on those things that are intrinsic motivators before I go into a conversation I'm already starting from a powerful place where like here's what I'm here to do and what I'd like to accomplish That isn't necessarily focused on any sort of external validation And that's that's what you'll find through social flows How do I exist with other people living from intrinsic motivation instead of seeking external validation? It's internal versus external and so the next is you go into curiosity and curiosity is just what do I want to know? So as I sit before anybody It's if you can hone your curiosity like a muscle and just ask yourself not what are the best questions ask somebody but Whether it's before a big caller in a moment with someone What do I want to know about this person? Truly like what am I most curious to understand and you give yourself to that authentic curiosity You're gonna have something of value to contribute in conversation and in terms of how you're gonna be received You think about the last time someone asked you a genuine question to understand you how did that feel? Fantastic, it's good. It feels connected like they care like they want to understand you and so you get to give that And so the next is authenticity which within this modality. I said he called Gestalt It's just what do I have to share and it's like what's on my mind that I have to share What am I thinking about? What am I feeling and the more that we get in touch with our Present moment experience feelings and thoughts and can give it a voice. We don't need to contort it Astrophly and so it's just tapping it with what am I been thinking about what am I feeling and Giving that a voice and then the last one is is now is that in any given moment realizing as someone who dealt with Shinus and social anxiety for so much of my early life and and still kind of like weeds its way into my life in funny ways You know as a 33 year old man Now is just a reminder that anytime I'm feeling anxiety for the most part with people It's because I'm in a story about what the future holds or some story about who I am and how I'll be received And if I am in the moment Right here if I'm tapped into my intrinsic motivation This is that there's there's so much less anxiety there And so it's a reminder to just come back to the present moment to get out of stories that if I say this if I ask a deep question I'll make them uncomfortable if I don't show up in a certain moment I'm gonna make them feel weird if we come out of those stories if we come back into the present moment It's again you are grounded in intrinsic motivation the present moment and zapped out of that that External validation seeking mindset that that is the cause of so much You know social discomfort and you bring up curiosity as a muscle And I know that for a lot of our clients, especially the analytical guys who come through our doors and work with us They often struggle to express curiosity in others They hold themselves in high regard. They judge themselves. They're perfectionists and they're so focused on themselves to a degree that they really struggle with being Openly curious outside of you know the core motivators for them So career tends to be what they study deeply so they can go on and on about code But when it comes to a normal social environment where well, you're probably not going to interact with another engineer You're probably not going to interact with someone who has such a deep level of understanding around certain subjects How can we build that curiosity muscle if we don't find ourselves being that curious? Yeah, you know, I think it's a beautiful question and I would start by Asking yourself generally if you just to give yourself an idea This is an exercise that anybody could do I oftentimes talk about it as the big five at conferences And so the big five if I was just to say when I meet somebody new What am I thematically generally most interested to know about this person? So like what is your underlying curiosity? What do you really like to know about the people you meet? And so if you just ask yourself that question you could write down the whole list of what I want to know about them to Make it more kind of practical. Mine would be What's your dream like I want to know like what could people do if they could do anything I want to know what's challenging right now and Challenge isn't bad as we oftentimes, you know, put it in that bucket challenges means that something is difficult for us in the moment It's it's very human Outside of that. It's what are you most looking forward to? It's like what have you learned recently? It's these are the types of questions that I just want to know about most of the people that I meet because they speak to The essence of of who they really are and so the practice of that is I did that a whole training for a while Where I would wake up every single morning and what I would do is I would say What do I want to know? What do I don't know about this day? It's what do I want to understand if that was something about Geopolitics about something about what's corona doing if that was something about why I'm feeling the way that I do about like Why do I have ringing in my ear? Like why do my wrist hurt? If you were just to tap into your curiosity and as an exercise give it a voice make it more real What do I want to know? You're literally training your curiosity as a muscle to just be more aware of what it is That you want to know so in the moment when you're with people you're more aware you're more capable of bringing that into conversation So I love that tip the the last question that I have that I want to bring up and unpack a little bit more and I'm a member of one of the men's groups that you've organized is this idea of men and our Emotions and how we deal with these with these emotions and of course right now I think everyone is feeling a lot in terms of emotions all the feels and we're struggling at times with all the Uncertainty and I know that's a big part of the work that you do with your men's groups. So what have you found in in your Working with men in particular that holds them back from this emotional mastery and really understanding their emotions and communicating them and What can we practically do to start tapping into that because so much of our experience is tied to our emotions? And we should be able to communicate them. Yeah, and I mean and and who taught us how to Experience and express our emotions What does that even mean who knows who has an answer to that question? It's it's again it's kind of like our expectations of what emotionality looks like for a man, especially is Violent, you know, it's like it's anger. It's slamming a door. It's like crushing it on this on like some sports field It's like that's the type of emotionality that we've been conditioned to express. It's like in women It's it's on the other end of the spectrum It's the more sympathetic and crying and connected and you know all of these kind of pejorative Like associations and so like what I would say is the founder of Gestalt this modality that I study Says that what we don't express we suppress What we don't express we suppress and that like our emotions are present in us like All the and just like if you were to think about like some of the core emotions of fear shame sadness anger joy is that when we Feel these things and we are not aware Present or interested in connecting with them in expressing them consciously whether that's your word whether that's your exercise that those get stuffed out and those emotions then imprint themselves on our actions and on our communication in subconscious ways and that's snapping at someone because you were frustrated that is Getting angry maybe slamming a door because you weren't able to actually address something and so like why it's so important is that like until we're more capable of connecting being with our emotions expressing them masterfully and Productively it's they will in a in a really present way Just run run our lives and imprint on how we show up in the world And so it's so important for spaces to exist where not just men, but all people are liberated and and supported in this practice of what we call emotional mastery, which is just really taking the time to check in and if I were to say like again It's like what are you feeling your body right now getting out of the head getting into the body? You know if I had a feeling in my my stomach like what's the emotion that's behind that if that emotion had a voice What would it be saying? How long has it been there? Would you does it have a message for you? Do you have a message it's when we're we're able to just be with our emotions that Experience in and of itself we increase our capacity to be with them out in the world in our day-to-day lives And I think what happens so often is that we're never we're never taught this again And so what happens is not us are we expressing them in these Unproductive ways like anger, but a lot of times numbing You know is just escaping these emotions whether that's through Substance abuse whether that is through women and distractions video games like you name it It's like that is you know I think again another issue that we face today is that people don't have the ability to feel their feelings to sit with them And so they just numb out and so so much of the work that we want to do is just to create a space where people Can just like we talked about before be however you are what's there and give them some simple tools that allow them to Experience what's there to express it and that in and of itself is a way for us to process as we do that we build up the ability to do it in real time and Yes, I think it's a really important The the terminology of that as it's being introduced into schools now is really social emotional learning is how do we teach these skills of social Emotional learning so that all young people all people have this ability to connect with their emotions and other people Well certainly having that space is going to help and in finding different ways to encourage people to speak up for themselves to express themselves I was just on a coaching call this afternoon and It was obvious to me that The young man that I was working with One of the reason he's he's in the shape that he's in and how he feels about what's going on is he doesn't have anyone else around anyone around him to express it too and He's like well, I He's like, but I'm fine and I was like well You wanted to have this call because you wanted to talk these issues out So obviously you don't have anyone that you feel this open with so you had to book this call with me and that's fine But what are you doing outside of this call so that you can express yourself to the people around you so that you can build stronger connections I'm just your coach on the other side of this on the country and I'm happy to have this call but for your Sanity and health you're gonna need to have people around you where you feel safe to do this as well and We are certainly seeing fewer and fewer of those places available for young men and young women I think it was also more intrinsic to how we were Living before the technology when you're a young man playing with friends. You're expressing yourself all the time You're building clubs. You're building tree houses. You're making things up. You're using your imagination This was all in itself Self-expression and you did it around other young kids and you expressed yourselves together to build these Imaginary worlds in which you played in Well, I think a big part of it that we're seeing and the my experience that I had in joining the group was that We've dumbed down emotions to emojis So few words to express emotions and I yes part of it's silly but part of it's really true and A lot of us when we talk about our emotions, we're not painting with color We're we're just like penciling them in and moving on to the next thing and what my experience with the men's group has Really been in the holding of that space is is going deeper and deeper into the emotion and the layers and really unpacking it So it's not just anger. There's more to it. It's more nuanced than that But as men we compartmentalized we put a label on it and go I don't have to deal with this emotion onto the next thing And unfortunately that builds up and can have some really messy repercussions as we've talked about with some or other guests, but I think as we look at Emotions and their impact on our lives We need to start speaking more openly about them But going deeper into them and expressing what that physical sensation is But then also what is that mental feeling that you're feeling and not just letting it pass by as oh, it's just anger It's just sadness It's a great point And I think one of the things I think about is is anxieties like is not no is so much of anxiety Is is not knowing not knowing what the result is what other people think of us and we're focused on that not knowing It's an anxious unsettled feeling and so when we don't spend any time with our emotions You talk about dumbing it down to an emoshi When we don't have the words to articulate a feeling we don't oftentimes sit in the not knowing we just move on Right. It's like if someone says we have a rule against this on our retreats And it's because it's how often he's you ask a guy how he's doing. How you doing good? It's good. It's fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm good. And it's like what's behind that? It's like and that's a great word to go deeper is like what's what's behind that? It's like, it's you know, what's what's behind the good? Why are you good? And it's that so often it's it's such a reflexive I don't want to actually dive into how I'm really feeling so I'll just throw something quick to move past that and It's so interesting of one of the things that we often talk about You know and you've experienced probably a group is the idea of just slowing down and When people use the words, I don't know which comes up a lot. It's like what's behind that? How long has it been there? I don't know Anytime says someone says I don't know the next thing that oftentimes happens is they move on really quickly to the next thought Into some sort of thought that they've already processed in their mind that they've probably spoken before But what's really interesting is the I don't know What's the thing that you don't know and can we exist in the I don't know and the exploration of what's there? What does it feel like to not know and being in that like we talked about again? It's just increasing our capacity. It's it's providing us with a lexicon to when we field these things speak to them Not even you know if that's with somebody else, but even in our mind so that we can understand them We can learn from them We can integrate them consciously into our communication and learn a lot about where we're at what we need in our lives and what I found is it's cathartic certainly at the end of the meeting because Part of it is sharing it with a group of men that are Also going through similar things so you you not only hear your own emotions But a lot of times you hear a lot of other emotions You haven't fully unpacked mirrored back at you by their responses and on top of that I found that it's made me more expressive outside of that space So as you were saying it's really grown my emotional vocabulary. It's made me more conscious of the way I express emotions to other people so that I'm not just compartmentalizing as oh, I'm just sad and it's made me a better listener to other people's emotions So I highly encourage those of you who are listening who are interested in doing deeper work seeking out a group a men's group I know there are women's groups as well I create a safe space for you to communicate about your emotions Because certainly a lot of us are struggling with a depth of emotions that we probably haven't dealt with ever in our lives Yeah, I'll say one one thing on that because I think it's it's one of the reasons that I I love men's work is that When when we create a space where like the goal is to just be real to express ourselves What is so powerful is that oftentimes we experience our emotions as a burden for other people to experience our Emotions to share them with other people if it's not joy or excitement or happiness We experience them as a burden and we don't want to share them with others people But what oftentimes happens in men's groups on retreats in space like spaces like this is that when you share your experience You are creating space for other people to go there To to deal with the thing to dig up the thing that that they didn't have the capacity to deal with to interact with to engage on their own it's about authenticity and Caring about other people's space to be authentic as well because if you're just going around being like this is how I feel This is what I want this is narcissism But if you go into I want to speak my truth so that other people can do the same and be interested in that Then being authentic being honest connects you to a deeper purpose of creating space for other people to just be real with whatever They're experiencing as well. It's a powerful frame to I think transform how we show up with people All right, this is a Q&A episode. So let's unpack the mailbag here. We have our first questions from Daniel I have recently switched employers and in the company. I'm working for now I'm leading a team of eight programmers after being in that job for about a month now and beginning to realize That there really is very little team spirit. Don't get me wrong Everyone's doing their job and we're getting things done But no more than that either Maybe I'm asking too much But I was hoping to be leading a team that would be as motivated and as pumped to go to work each day as I was in My previous job. Do you have any tips for me here that's Daniel totally? I feel like this is right up tributes alley. So What it's you know, again, I think that I think about it as the context for creativity the context for communication is that If you can create the space or it's a beautiful It's the idea that We can create the space that people show up in and so if we create a container with prompts or Invitations to say I would ask, you know, this guy who wrote this question We're like, what is it that you desire? So he wants more spirit. He wants more excitement more connection It sounds like it works. So there's purpose for doing it. But I think what's also important is curiosity What do you want to know about these people is I think that a great way to start that conversation Is just to acknowledge that of like owning his own experience. It's like, hey guys, I noticed that, you know, I'd love to Feel like more connected and engaged like outside of just talking about work stuff And I'm curious if anyone else has been feeling a similar desire So it's owning like what is it that I desire? Cool. There you go Curious has anyone else been experiencing that and then you see, you know, from them Like have they been feeling that and then it's the idea of so what do I actually want to do and One of the simplest things I do and we've done this for hundreds of companies now is the idea We have in our slack like the gratitude channel, which is like people come in and every friday and on monday They come in and it's like everyone shares their gratitude And it just connects people to one thing that they're grateful for one thing that they're looking forward to one person They're grateful for and what it does is it's basically We don't even set like a mandatory thing there But it's just if you want to do it do it and a lot of most people do and it just kind of like Creates this space for a new conversation within the company That's not directly related to our work. And so that's a context, right? We're like look now companies like now our employees can talk about gratitude And if there's another area of interest, it's whether that's in like a physical meetup space That's basically hey like we're going to go and every other week. We're going to do two hours To do book club. It's like a chance to have a more intentional space. It's like depending on what he wants It's that he can again you talked about this earlier of Being a leader for the type of communication and engagement that you want It's like that's the powerful thing is that we can't wait for other people to do it Whether that's expressing gratitude whether that's having deeper more meaningful conversations It's up to us to create that space and so it's What's my desire to use anyone share that with me and then what are the practical spaces that I can create That make it easier for people to get excited to have deeper conversations I completely agree with that idea of we have to take the lead on this We can't expect other people to just jump up with team spirit And we had Patrick luncheon on Earlier this year and he said the same thing that we have to be intentional with our communication and realize that the more we invest In our team's lives outside of work So what's going on with their family what their hopes and dreams are what they're in looking forward to That creates the space for the team spirit that you're looking for And a lot of us go about it the wrong way We try to lead by just pepping up the energy and being more emotional and trying to be more celebratory and For a lot of people if something's going on at home They're not going to have that team spirit that is going to be the far bigger distraction So getting to understand them at a deeper level that maybe they're not feeling team spirit for right now because Well, they're not dealing with this crisis properly They're struggling at work from home because now they're homeschooling That is going to create the space as a leader where the team feels more invested because you have their back You care more than just about the task at hand or the role that they have you care about them as a person Yeah, it's beautifully said. I think that it's indicative of true leadership to zoom out of The momentary rush and busy-ness that is such a part of so many workplaces to say it's like if I invest In knowing these people and supporting them as people Our company is going to be stronger Jessica asked for tips on how to improve interactions in her video conferences Hey, I could use your advice when it comes to video conferencing I've changed into home office and so has the rest of the team I used to enjoy our team meetings or meetings with a client when they happened in real life I feel like social time where we were together and also bond a little is now gone Now that this happens in a video conference, my meetings have become a pain For more reasons than I dare to list here, but just to name my biggest grievances. Apparently it's a long list People seem constantly busy and something else is on their mind when they're not talking or they're distracted We keep speaking over each other and never know when it's safe to say something without talking over someone Usually my boss and I also feel like I'm the only one who cares to dress and work clothes And that alone makes my own morale drop I could go on but you get the picture Any general advice on what I could do to make these meetings a little more fun again And any tips on how I can pass these on to my boss or maybe this isn't my job to fix But it looks like I might have to thank you Jessica When I lock on to a zoom call, I have every single guy pick up their phone And I haven't put it on at least silent mode and airplane mode if they can't You know, so it's we have this ritual where everyone hops on and I was like, all right Phone's up everyone puts them on and then together we put them on silent mode or to put them on airplane mode And then I have everyone go to the full screen Which is like two simple things to make them more effective But it's like we're all going to be on full screen We're going to be fully here and then we're going to be on airplane mode if we can be And so just add intentionally that reminder of like we're just going to give each other our presence That's what I say every time is like we're going to give each other the gift of our presence for an hour You know and that that sort of declaration or invitation. Is it better word? I think that Anytime that you tell people like I want you to do this You're going to be met with some resistance, but I love the idea of an invitation It's like I'm just going to invite people I'm going to do this and I'd love to invite people to do it So that we can be more present more connected more productive together would be a few things you could do I love all those things and for the last two questions I thought you've answered them perfectly and there's really nothing that I can add to them. However, I want to take a different approach to a Two things that I that I see that could be an issue that haven't been brought up But I want to make sure we lay them on the table. Yeah, I was gonna Get to talk a little bit about the flip side too. So yeah, so I have certainly been in plenty of meetings in the last 15 years of being an entrepreneur where Where meetings aren't fun and the reason meetings aren't fun is we continue to have the same meeting over and over again and we are spinning our wheels in a certain area and Because we're spinning our wheels We're having the same meeting over and over again. It's dragging everybody down and When and that happens It happens a lot at least and it certainly happens where We're expecting people to to begin to move forward and And I and I want to say that if you feel like you're having the same meetings over again, then something has to change and either the The wheel that is spinning that is not improving that is not learning. They either have to get removed Or you're going to continue to grind down Your team and everyone else who is coming into those meetings really excited who are coming into those meetings Fired up and want to take on the day But then that one meeting Takes the wind out of their cells and now they're brought down and for the rest of the day They are stewing on that We really just have 45 minutes of the same meeting we had last week of the same meeting We had the week before and the same meeting we had before that and how quickly Those can degenerate into a lot of hostility and a lot of anger and being that If you see that happening you have to be willing to snip it quickly because they have a way of of just Infecting everything One of the simplest little tweaks here is that if you can tell people that we have If you have an hour for a meeting and you tell people and I want to get you out of here in 45 It's one of the simplest things that I've just noticed. It's like oftentimes even in key notes What I'll say is like I'm supposed to be talking for 45 minutes today I'm going to finish in 30 and if you guys want to ask questions you can do that You know, it's immediately it feels like you are showing a reverence for their time Anytime I send an email to someone new I'm like, I'm sure you're probably really busy I appreciate any time you can take to be here anytime you show reverence for people's time ahead of time They're going to immediately feel more connected and more present. So it's just I know you guys are busy. We've got this much time. We're going to try and have you out of here a little bit early It's here the things that I want to cover. How do we feel about that and getting by in there? So it's shared purpose Honoring people's time upfront to super simple things that you can do to improve meetings. I just I want to Add to that that if you enjoy what you're doing and you enjoy where you work, you're a good fit culture-wise Then you should be really enjoying meetings and you should be fired up And if you're not there is something wrong And you have to figure out what that is If the meetings are too long then they're too long if somebody is poisoning the well then somebody is poisoning the well But if you're if it's a good fit And you're and you're love what you're doing Meeting should be rad Meeting should be a place of getting semblance and hearing where everyone's at and getting fired up As we talked about being a leader is paying attention to not just the kpi's and the numbers and the context But it's also paying attention to the emotions of the team And in her response like people seem constantly busy with something else. Well checking in outside of the meeting What is that thing? Maybe it's their kids Maybe they're struggling and you just taking a minute to invest in them will allow them to feel a little bit better A lot of us feel unheard right now in these video conferences because we don't really have time to talk Everyone's just got to get their thing in and then get back to work And of course in those situations being the leader wearing the work clothes Showing up to the meeting a little early and chit chatting with people before the meeting starts I mean these are all opportunities for you to be that rock for someone else who is struggling in this crisis Remembering that it's not easy for everybody I love that. All right Last one for today serena asks I'm 23 and I moved to new york city right out of college to start my career in banking Because of the virus i've been forced to move back home with my family until it's safe for me to move back to new york You've spoken about how to deal with toxic relationships, particularly family members in the past And i'm sure others might be experiencing having to move back with their loved ones at this time So i'm wondering how to bring all these new skills I'm excited about to some of the most toxic relationships in my life to make them stronger I love my family more than anything But after time away from them, I've realized that they were the cause of a lot of the underlying issues in my life I want to look back at this quarantine being proud of the relationships I've strengthened rather than feeling regret for simply trying to avoid these toxic moments I'd love to hear your thoughts or any suggestions You might have on how to handle relationships like this when conversations only lead to arguments and more resentment So grateful for you guys. Thank you for sharing your knowledge What I what I'd say is that it takes two people to get into an argument right it's like so The idea of an argument is back and forth and it's natural to be what rhonda said You think you're enlightened go spend a weekend with your family, right? And so There's a lot of accelerated Personal transformation that has happened here now for people that are with their parents and their spouses here certainly so You know, I think again how we can address these things. I love the idea of just challenging conversations And there's a theme emerging here but is with our parents and with anybody again realizing that I have control over my motivators and my own actions and not how other people respond And so we had talked about social flow before but the importance of that in situations where we are oftentimes triggered or impacted Is even more powerful because going into places where you can often get triggered by external motivators It's so important to be present to how do I want to show up here? Because if you're going into conversation with your parents, you don't want to show up like I don't want to show up Like an asshole. I don't want to show up, you know super sad It's like I want to show up present and I'd be curious whatever those are So if we come back to intentionality curiosity, what do I want to know about my parents? And we challenged a bunch of our guys actually through this time the exercise of I think one of the things that I often see with Children adult children and their parents They have this desire to be seen and understood and accepted by their parents Right. It's like, do you do you guys have that? I know I do Especially, you know, it's like to be seen, supported, accepted And then I asked my guys and I say Do you know your parents really? Do you know what they need? Do you know what their dreams are? Do you know like what they care about right now? And almost always like we don't because we know our parents so well from our childhood At this level that was just automatic. We didn't necessarily have to track because we were just around them But the idea of I think that this this Time frame right where we have this time so many of us are whether we're with our parents in our house Whether we're far away that one of the most powerful things we can do to transform our relationship with parents Is to increase our level of understanding about who they are to humanize them Versus responding to how they've impacted us. I'm like, who is this person? Right. What's their their motivation? I got a thing behind them. And so before we we seek The acceptance the support that seeing How can I give that? Right. And I think so much of that is like the questions what questions don't you know about your parents about like what if that's about How I'm acting of like, what do they want? What's been challenging for them lately? How can I support them? And so I think that one of the simplest things we could do again is say like I'd love to invite in a deeper level of connection. I'd like to invite in deeper level of calm Carries if you've been feeling the same way Just setting aside time to get to know your parents on a deeper level to understand them And when I say when you do that exercise of asking questions Don't don't expect anything But the answer is that they're capable of giving for where they're at Is that you're not there to critique them. You're not there to challenge what they say You're there to ask questions and to let them respond at whatever level and however, honestly They're capable of doing and doing that is a really powerful way to create space for them to To just tell their story and it's you know, I'll be I'll be real for a moment It's like for those of you who still have your parents around We were talking about asking these questions and and there was a man who was there who didn't get to ask these questions To his dad And there was a lot of stuff that he was aware that he never got to ask And if you have things that you don't know about your parents Humanize your your parents are humans They have experienced traumas. They have experienced challenges. They have dreams It's like get to know them as people and when we understand them as humans It becomes so much easier to relate to them as people to have empathy to have compassion To move forward. So I would say that that's uh, that's one thing that we can do there I wrote a whole post about how to have that conversation because the big one Well, we talk a lot about stronger frame dissolves the weaker one parents family They know our triggers and our buttons better than anyone What they're not expecting is for us to be open to that feedback Appreciative of that feedback to say I really appreciate you caring so deeply about me and expressing that opinion and that point of view It means the world to me. It makes me feel that I'm loved Wow, okay. Is that going to start an argument? For many of us what we're doing is we're we're putting up a wall to deflect Their emotions and and their care about us and we're going in the logical route of picking apart each other's arguments And what you said that was so powerful is Creating space to learn about your parents and ask them when is the last time in your life? You were the scared or uncertain When was the last time you were super excited my age? And what was it that you were excited about when you were my age and really putting yourself more on their journey Deflects them from focusing on your journey It's really powerful because we love to talk about ourselves and if you could focus more on your parents journey and their experiences They're going to share and you're going to learn some things that you probably didn't know You'll create depth in that relationship And expressing appreciation that they care so much about you and they have these high views of you They hold you in such high regard and they have these expectations Will often remove that conflict that you're feeling of having to prove your point to them or win that argument That leads to a lot of this toxic relationship behavior that we've talked about in other episodes How much appreciation and love for your parents do you have inside of you that you have never expressed to them? Things that they did the ways that they've impacted you it's like For those of us who have parents who we're grateful for Any reason it's one of our one of our cornerstone sayings is if you grew up with this statement that says If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all And if you remove the don'ts from that statement, it becomes if you have anything nice to say say at all and it's like You know we we hold on to that stuff because we feel that it it can make us weak if they don't reciprocate whatever that is But if you have Appreciation in you for your parents especially it's letting that out letting them know that Helping them to feel like they have had a positive impact that they had Andrew where can our audience find out more about your great podcast and set up their own tribute because We talked about to start the show. There's so many amazing use cases right now And i'm so proud that you have opened it up for free for all of these people to connect when we are isolating Yeah, so you can definitely go to uh, you want to go to the special page which is tribute.co forward slash corona And so that's where you'll get the the 25 dollars up to create your your free tribute And so i'd highly encourage you to experience that right now whether it's you know, someone who's graduating someone cancel the wedding Um, you've got a birthday that somebody's missing Uh, it's a powerful experience transforms the the framework and the foundation which you're connecting with your friends and then Um, you can catch any of my own stuff writing speaking and gratitude and social flow and all that stuff It's andrew horn.com and my podcast is on there called What's the big idea which is kind of like a conversational ted talk We take amazing people in and get to hear their stories and big idea They wish more people could integrate into their lives and um The mens work that the agent i had talked about is author our platform called we junto where we do monthly mens retreats And then we also have these uh, completely free donation based virtual mens groups that anyone can tap into so no prior experiences Is required just a curiosity and a desire to go deep and get real and connect with uh with good men Thank you, andrew. Thanks fellas