 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am joined by Mr. Pat Petrillo to talk about all kinds of cool things. Pat, welcome to the podcast. Bart, thanks for having me. I'm glad we got a chance to connect and make this happen. Thank you. Yes. First off, I just want to say it's been out for a little bit, but a major huge congratulations for getting on the cover of Modern Drummer February 2023. Thank you, man. Unbelievable. Well, you know, it's what turned out to be, you know, an interview initially turned out to be a bigger interview. And then we kept talking to the bigger interview. And then before you know it, it's like, you know, they let me know, hey, man, you know, this is turned out to be pretty cool. And we're going to make it a cover. And it was like, wow. Okay. I thank, you know, all the guys over there and for doing it. And David Frangione and Mark for interviewing me and Lloyd Bishop, who took great photos. And it's just great to just talk about, you know, a little bit about my drum history and my career and stuff and the new record and stuff like that. So thank you very much. And thanks to Modern Drummer. Absolutely. Which the new album we'll talk about is Pat Petrillo, Big Rhythm Band, The Power Station Sessions. But before we do that, can I ask you like, some questions about what it's like to get that feature on the cover? I mean, Mark Griffith has been on the podcast before, amazing writer, amazing, incredible brain for drumming and music, which, which I found out pretty quickly. David has as well. And those are great guys. But like, I'm always been curious about getting the photo taken. What was that like, do they come to you? It's curious. Like I said, Lloyd Bishop, who does a lot of the photos on the Seth, for the Seth Meyers show and various other things, he's just a great photographer, very dramatic, very New Yorkish, you know, I had him do some photos before one of our gigs at the cutting room for various, you know, promotional things and, and, and for the article itself, as I knew it was going to be, I was being interviewed for, for, you know, for the magazine and they needed some good pictures. So he took great shots. And, you know, we made sure we got some really nice front ones, you know, just in case you never know. And as it turned out, you know, he got a really, really great front shot for that. And, and, you know, it features the drums, which is Ludwig, of course, and the cymbals, Zildjian, and it's just, I think it's very, it's, it's a little surreal. You know, I put a video on my Instagram, which is Pat P. Drummer, by the way, but it just came in the mail, you know, and I just looked at it and there it is, you know, the pull yourself out of the mailbox is a little good surreal. But as you know, they've been through tough times with things and COVID and, and there's a new regime now, and it's kind of make up for the old things. And, you know, they're doing a bi-monthly issue now. So Chris Johnson is on the other side on the January and mine is on February. So they'll be doing bi-monthly, you know, print. And at least they're in business and they're doing the best they can. So, but I thank them so much for that. Absolutely. Very, very cool. I always like the style of the covers of, of modern drummer. There's always kind of a certain, they have like a feel to them. Yours is very like, has the blue background, your leather jacket is very cool. The finish of the drums is just beautiful. That's straight out of 1975 right there, bro. That, the jacket, that's awesome. I love it. So that's super cool. And, and I, you yourself are a very accomplished musician, but to have made it on the cover of modern drummer as a, someone who has really kind of led their own career as a drummer, clinician, educator, kind of a win for drummers in general, because it's great when, when a, a drummer's on the cover of modern drummer who's in a big band, let's say you are like the late great Taylor Hawkins or something where you're a phenomenal drummer, but you are on the cover, you're in a huge band. You yourself are in very successful bands, but you're a drummer's drummer, you know? I mean, that leads us into, why don't you tell us about maybe your background and your, you know, what got you to that point of being on the cover? Yeah. Well, I mean, it is, it is a journey and, and I've just, I've always, I just sort of, I think there are people who kind of gravitate towards the instrument and I was just, I don't know, gravitated towards the instrument out of, at an early age. I have two, like much older brothers and one of them is as played in a, like in a garage band per se. And, and I used to just kind of always go and hang out at their practices. And once I got old enough, you know, I started listening to, to records and, and I just, it just came to me naturally. You know, I think some people, it's, it's, you know, some people have, or just have an affinity for coordination wise or whatever. But I think listening to music was a big thing for me. I mean, I listened to a lot of music before I even had a drum set, you know? And I mean, for me, the Beatles were pretty much over by the time I got to start playing. But, you know, I went back to the old records and really though that was my, my, my, my, I guess my home base because my brother listened to them a lot. And then I, you know, but I say my wheelhouse was then, you know, went from them to like, we're talking, you know, I was a, you know, I was a young kid in, you know, in the mid seventies and, and just listening to, you know, FM radio and listening to, you know, whether it's from a rock standpoint, I love like, yes, and I loved like more progressive quote unquote stuff then, but then like James Brown and, and Marvin Gaye and the Motown stuff as well and listening to, to R and B and funk and soul as well as being able to turn to dial and then listening to, to groups like Aerosmith and, you know, stuff like that. So grew up listening to a variety of, of, of music, you know, um, at an early age. And then I got involved in drum core, my local drum core, like I said, I had older brothers. So I kind of grew up as like an only child in my house. And so my mom wanted to get me involved. So I had a little bit of a gift. So I got involved in a local drum core, which is where I learned my, my rudiments and my chops, my hand stuff and then progressed through the drum core thing. But drum set was always, you know, by that time I had my first, I think, you know, drum set, an old Ludwig kit, which I wish I still had, but I don't. But, um, and, and always would play along to records and, and the radio, you know, my data, nice stereo system downstairs. So I just would play along to things and learn on my own. I never really had a teacher on drum set. My teachers were Claes Doublefield and Ringo and Jabo and, and, and, you know, Earl Palmer, which I didn't know at the time, but all those great drummers, those were my teachers. So I had my rudimental thing. And then I also had like what I did on drum set, you know, so. Yeah. I can definitely hear that in your, in your playing of absorbing all those styles and, but you clearly have the foundation. I feel like, I feel like root, which I didn't go that route. I went more of the like drum set lessons and playing in bands. You get that, you get that it's all good. No matter where you, we all end up where we're supposed to end up. But I definitely think you, you absorbing that, uh, those great drummers. There's nothing, nothing beats that. Yeah. Thank you, man. I mean, that's, that's huge for me. I mean, that's, you know, you try to, I mean, when you're in that early stage, you know, when you're a kid, you're emulating sort of, you know, you're in that copy mode. And, but that's how you learn, you know, and it goes in your ears. And I would just sit there and drop the needle, man and just listening to the records and growing up, you know, here in Jersey, listening to Parliament Funkadelic and getting all, and getting the Funkadelic records and the Parliament records and then getting, um, you know, I guess getting turned on to, I think, like I made a leap when I got turned on to, to, um, to Korea, the return to forever bands. And, you know, my other friends that were listening to a variety, variety of music and, you know, and listening to Steve Gadd and, and, and him, you know, with later with Chick and, and then playing with Algero and all those records, you know, all that. When I heard his, his playing, it spoke to me because I did hear the stuff that I was learning in drum core. I, I heard some roles. I heard some, some fills that I didn't hear the other cats playing, you know what I mean? And that was like, I could relate to that. I heard that was like a six-stroke role. Okay. And that, and all that started to come together with his great groove. So that all sort of blended for me, you know, so my Ringo, Clyde, Jabbo, Gadd sort of tree, you know, is my history in terms of drumming. We have so many different cool little things we can talk about, but you've zeroed in a lot on, let's say Ringo with your, your, how it was played series that you're doing on your social media, which I think is just awesome because well, on Instagram, I'm, I'm a diehard Beatles fan and I love playing along to like, you know, I, I, I got a serious XM trial with a car and then I was like, I love this so much. I listened to the Beatles channel all the time. I was like, I'll sign off, this is great. That's awesome. What was that like? That was cool. Just to call in and discuss the record a little bit, but, but yeah, that's a great channel. Love it. Cool. Ringo is one of those people that, that it's, it's like Lars Ulrich where people are like, he's not good. I don't like him, which is just a joke to me because Ringo's phenomenal watching you play, you know, cause you don't get these videos of, of Ringo behind the kit, breaking things down in the old days. Watching you play him is just incredible and, and it's, it adds more complexity than I originally thought. Cause you know, I kind of play along to him and I go, yeah, that's, that's, yeah. And you see it. And I'm like, I'm pretty close, but there's, there's just such an interesting style. I know there's the whole, he's actually left-handed and he's playing right-handed, but what has that been like to really break those down and learn them? Well, that's, that was, what you said was exactly it. That was the impetus of it. Like there's no, like, and listen, Ringo did that one video, people keep referencing that he played, you know, he was on some show or something and he was demoing, come together and he started on the floor, Tom and came and he said, first of all, he was playing on a three-piece, he wasn't playing in a four-piece, you know, that's obviously not what he played on the record. So, you know, if he doesn't remember what he played that, that's okay. You know, and, and but the records are his legacy. The records are what he played. So I, I says, well, I'm going to do a series called how it was played. And we'll start with Ringo, but I'm also doing Clyde, Jabbo, Earl Palmer, all these great drummers that we don't, we've heard these grooves, but we haven't seen them. And I've seen guys do videos of Ringo. Obviously, there's hundreds of them out there, but the whole left-hand lead thing is, is, is a little bit deceiving because he doesn't start to fill with the left hand on a lot of them. It'll be a pickup. He actually starts with the right hand. It's very simple. He plays every backbeat, any downbeat with his left hand and any 16th pickup you hear is going to be with his right hand. It's that simple. So if you hear him go, did that do, did that do, it's going to be a right hand pickup 16th into a left hand. So a lot of the sticking, if you know that going in, a lot of the sticking is itself explanatory. And then you just listen to the orchestration and you hear what it is. And then, but the difficult thing is the feel because he's so great, you know, you know, and his influences, you know, go back to the great, you know, whether it's Topsy or it's, you know, Earl Palmer's or any of this, his influences over the years that he listened to, he could hear with great American drummers, had that little swing and he has that lilt. And that only comes really from listening in the experience of listening to him play. So he's sort of embedded in my DNA. So I try to do the best I can. There's only one Ringo. But I felt as if, if people could really see how we played it with the right sticking and the right phrasing on the right drums, like I have my 66s right here, I kind of swap out the vintage with my new Ludwigs. But and that's how it was played. That's how we did it. If you listen, you know, as an educator too, as well as a drummer, you know, that's the sticking. That's what he used. Those are the drums that's knowing him. That's the only way he could possibly play that. So I thought it would be a great idea to show Ringo if he was to play his parts for you on a video and remember what they were and what are they and do it the right way, you know, and from a drummer's perspective and no high tech. I just use my iPhone, man, because I have a great auto mute system here, as you can see on my walls. Shout out to Mitch at auto mute. Thank you very much. But beautiful. It's great right to my iPhone. So I basically play the tracks through my my studio speakers. You can hear it in the background, but I wanted to focus on the drum parts, you know, and no high tech stuff. And, you know, there, there it is. And I feel as it's important that, you know, you highlight not just Ringo, but Earl and Clyde and Jabbo and all the great drummers. And, of course, you know, Zig, Mona Liste, Gad, and because we're all standing on their shoulders. And that's my history, like my history is their drumming, you know, and, and I think it's important to highlight. So it's a fun series. I'll keep doing them. And I'm getting requests, you know, so it was one of my my first videos over 250,000 views. I was like, whoa, okay, great. So now I got to figure out what else. It's a couple more I'm going to do, I think. Well, that's the sign. I mean, to speak a little to the the what I do and what you're doing, the side of it of the production and the social media and the sharing. People like it. Keep doing it. If if if it's making you happy, keep doing it. But also one thing just like, you know, because people might be interested in this that I've learned of from doing a lot of YouTube and things is if you set yourself up to be like, all right, I'm going to have 13 drum mics. I'm going to have a camera running like a, you know, video camera. I'm going to do this. You will be setting yourself up in many cases, setting yourself up for failure because it's too hard to reproduce. You're smart to do your iPhone. It sounds great. Yeah, you got to have a low barrier to just turn it on and do it. And then that's, that's how you are successful. You know, like I have the camera set up. I have great earthworks, mics, thanks to earthworks. I have cameras in front, camera to top side. I have a great system here that I run. So using the black magic switcher. So, you know, if I'm going to do something with my, you know, with my drums and mic and really good, the good cameras. But I just want to something quick that I think people can relate to this right through the iPhone. So thanks for that. You know, guys, it's all Pat P drummer on Instagram. So check it out. It's my homage to ring and he's just, you know, underrated if you want to call it, but it's just that you don't get to see what his real sticking is and you don't get to see how it was played. There's not a whole lot of video because a lot of their videos, if you see, he's miming and you're not going to see him play any of the newer stuff. Like from revolver on down, you're never, you're never going to really see any video of him playing that because they never played that stuff. You know, a lot of that stuff live not for very long, you know. So yeah, no, it's incredible bringing that up. Absolutely. And there's, there's, if people are interested in more about Ringo, there's plenty of Ringo episodes with Gary Astridge has done a bunch who I was fortunate to just see over the weekend. And Gary's a great guy and had the big, you know, peace sign hand that we got pictures in front of this week's episode is brought to you by my friend Mr. Jeff Burke and the Rogers drums USA Facebook group. Jeff has built an unbelievable community around the love of vintage Rogers drums. I can tell you from many firsthand experiences with Jeff that he is the real deal and is extremely authentic and just a super nice guy. And that comes through across all of the Rogers drums USA group. The group is all about friendship and mixing younger generations and older generations of Rogers enthusiasts together to get everyone in the same spot. Jeff is a proud Rogers collector with an enormous collection. And he's also working as a consultant for the new Rogers drums and is doing a great job with that. Rogers drums USA is all about spreading the message of Rogers legends Joe Thompson and Ben Strauss and keeping the history of Rogers alive. So find them on Facebook at Rogers drums USA. Just type that in and you'll find it and be sure to join Jeff on the enormous big comfy couch that is always at the drum shows when Rogers USA is there and you can sit down hang out with Jeff take a load off. I certainly did recently the Chicago show and had an absolute blast hanging out at their booth and getting to relax for a little bit. So be sure to find them at the drum shows and say hello until I'm you heard him heard this add on drum history and just say hi to Jeff. So thank you to Jeff and the Rogers drums USA group for sponsoring this episode. Pat let's go ahead and talk about your album a little bit which is incredible but I also want to segue then into this is drum history. So let's talk a little bit about some history stuff as we go. So like I mentioned it is the Pat Petrillo big rhythm band. The album is the power station sessions. I listened to it about a month ago when we were we've been trying to schedule this for a while and then I listened to it again this morning and I just love it. Tell us about the album. What was it like with the recording process and you've got some first off tell us everyone who's on it with you. Yeah it's the impetus was just to be on you know to get some some great players. I have great players in my band but I wanted to get I think the the in my band the chair that rotates the most is guitar. So I wanted to get some groove some great group players as well as you know I've worked with Oz Noi before so I wanted to get Oz on the record but I you know now Rogers is on my radar when I wrote 48th Street. I mean that to me is an homage to the to what New York used to be and with 48th Street was the place where everything was really happening music stores mayonnaise studios and to me like it's power station the power station studio recording studio synonymous with so many great artists but for me growing up like chic and now Rogers was huge. So when I'm in like seventh grade or whatever it is you know sixth seventh grade and you know and and chic comes out I'm like that was the record you know everybody was really into chic and now Rogers so I was really intent on trying to get him to you know to get on the record and and he's such a sweetheart of a guy and my buddy Steve Jankowski who played horns and did some arrangements on the record is in chic is in his band so he asked Niall and we just connected and it was great because you know I sent him the track and he you know he just laid it down in his in his own inimitable style and got a choice to stretch out a little bit all of those great records were cut and those great rhythm sections of the late great Tony Thompson big influence you know on me and Bernard Edwards and that whole thing screamed New York funk you know so that is the scene of the power station of Fort East Street plus what he produced and what he did with with so many great artists you know from Madonna and Bowie so anyway so I want it now and Osnoi and then another great New York guitarist of Felicia Collins is on it and she's a real versatile guitarist and she played on that track Asbury DAZ which I wrote just about you know Asbury Park man which is you know about a half an hour from me and I used to love going down there when I was younger and I go down there now for my little R&R that's when I get away and cast a vibe of the boardwalk man and that that New Jersey kind of horn power horn band Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes kind of vibe you know that was a whole another thing that I would listen to growing up as well so that was always kind of buzzing around here you know so I wanted to try to capture that so some good guests on the record and also an homage in some ways I cut a version of Black Cow with Steely Dan and Oz is on that one that's getting released to radio this week actually oh cool congrats thank you man this updated little updated version a little faster a little bit more you know you put a little bit more swing on it but you know I'm a I'm a big fan of the great grooves and you know in in groove history and great tracks and great songs so another cover I did was Billy Joel's Big Man on Mulberry Street and a great story you know Liberty DeVito shout out to Lib he's just a good friend and it's a beautiful person and when I said man I'm going to do a cover your groove for Big Man on Mulberry Street it's just friggin killing so it's a great feel with that upbeat high hat right so I kind of copped that and then also turned it into a halftime thing but he says interesting story about that is we cut that at the power station oh cool and I was like that I didn't know and he said what room are you in I said I'm in room C he goes we cut it in room C wow now I'm like really freaking out he goes it was meant to be I said I had no idea he goes yeah and we cut it we cut it in at C and because I remember actually being up on a riser in there he's telling me the whole story of how they cut it and that made it even more flavorful for me to be there where he cut it you know and then my engineer on the session was Roy Hendrickson and Roy was an assistant engineer on that session or Billy Joel when he was younger wow so this whole thing has come full circle man yeah it was crazy really crazy so that's incredible so it's a real it's a real fun diverse record of you know it's not a drummy record you know although there is a solo on it yeah on running is that what the solo's on on running yeah the earth went a fire cover yes so I did an arrangement of that and and there's a part in running on the original where it breaks down to like nothing so I figured that would be a good spot to put a drum solo the one and only sort of solo that's in your actually that's not true we I did a little solo on pocky way as well but very well and that's a one take tasteful oh thank you man it was one take drum solo I did the only take I did not do any punch ins the video I believe is on the modern drummer website it's on youtube as well so I just did you know the band was kind of shocked because we were cutting it and I said I'll probably punch in the solo just you know keep your eyes open I just didn't I kept playing and it did the solo count the band back in and off we went so yeah it it was a it was fun project and I'm glad you know drummers will dig it because it's it's some fun grooves and good music and it's and it's pretty diverse record as well so and it's on my I have vinyl on my site oh cool that's good to know so you can get it there at pat p drummer.com and there's nothing wrong with like I of course I like I'm like drummer drum albums but this is like I mean even as a drummer there's times where you don't on a daily basis want to put those on just because maybe you're want some more like musical music if that makes sense this is very yeah which implies sometimes drum records can yeah drum records to sort of beat you over the head a little bit sometimes you're in the perfect mood for it and you want to hear those but but uh this is a very it's like a I listened to it and I go wow that's a phenomenal drummer but I would also be like put it on and my wife would go oh this is good music where she's not a drummer you know thank you man everyone can check it out I'll put the link in the description but Pat originally we talked about because you have a background in teaching and all this stuff I would be interested in the idea came up because this is the drum history podcast to kind of address a little bit about the differences of R&B and funk and kind of the nuances between them so maybe for a little bit of the like educational history part of the show because that's definitely a part of this podcast wow okay cool can can do so growing up sort of you know listening to that stuff but you know I've I taught when I used to teach at the old drummer's collective in New York City I did teach an R&B and funk class and it's like there's a difference between rhythm and blues which was rock and roll really mm-hmm and funk okay so even though James Brown may have had a song called you know make it funky or he'd say he used the term funky James Brown was not the godfather of funk James Brown was the godfather of soul so rhythm and blues and soul is James Brown uh more uh more up top let's say snare ghost notes interplay right the Clyde Stubblefield Jabba Starks that kind of R&B style finger style bass bass lines boom boom boom boom boom boom R&B sure you know uh you would not consider that funk to me and I think to a lot of people funk started in 1970 pretty much the genre of funk started with Larry Graham thank you for letting me be myself sliding to family stone yeah the minute he went boom boom boom boom boom boom and he started slapping and popping the bass hello that's that was some different kind of stuff right you would not call that an R&B song by any means that's funk no yes uh to me that's where the genre started um and that meant the drums got a little simpler on top and things started getting heavier on the bottom R&B is a little more on top syncopated ghost notey funk is a little more on the bottom right little bottom yeah so that's where the kick drum and the bass start to lock and pop together you know so you created that foundation a lot more space even with tower power I would you know they're a funk band absolutely you would call them a funk band but to me they started in more of an R&B setting with Rocco's finger style and David's you know beautiful grooves that he crafted they're you know more of a rhythm in blues R&B horn band and then things got a little different maybe with drop it in the slot for them that became more of a funk record but that's that to me is is a delineation line right there 1970 and I would say too that just coming from like being in Cincinnati Bootsy Collins you you know p-funk funky like sure there's almost to me just throwing this out there like in the in the whole like vibe there's a little bit more of in a very good way like a weirdness to funk there's like a there's like a a style and I unfortunately space base itself yeah exactly and I have the first day of interning at my what later became a job I got to record Bootsy and he came in and man that guy is not pretending on camera he is he breathes lives and breathes that's who he is but but with those guys and you get that's like the funkadelic side and the and just that large over the top thing but yeah that that has a vibe for sure yeah absolutely and you know and them them being from Jersey you know that that history of funkadelic was you know George Clinton being from you know North Plainfield, New Jersey was about a half an hour from here started as a 50s doo-wop group the parliaments who then you know he put out a bunch of records apparently as the as the parliaments and then funkadelic started in the psychedelic 60s apparently that's when those records came out because by the time I got them they had been out for a little bit in the late 60s early 70s and I looked at them like these are this is wacky but songs like Cosmic Slop if you listen to early funkadelic you're gonna hear Red Hot Chili Peppers totally basically I mean if you listen to chili if you like the chili peppers you'll love early funkadelic so that's what funkadelic was was was rock with a funk edge to it that came out in in early 70s I guess 70 71 late 60s maybe but 70 71 72 so then you know with George with his cycle of of you know creativity and always moving and changing lanes created the parliaments again but called it parliament and parliament became they had their own records so funkadelic was on westwood and parliament was on cbs I think you want to say not sure I think so but they were the more they became pop okay so you know um with their record give up the funk crossed over that was funk right there so they're a funk personified so that's so parliament kind of broke that that mold you know and and saying you can't play you know funk on the radio because they kind of broke through that you know yeah so yeah and and so there is a difference between r&b and funk to me like a producer asked me to play an r&b groove I'm not going to play be playing a lot of boom got go go go got go go got go go go go go go I'm not gonna be playing like a heavy bass heavy kick drum syncopated I'll be playing a little bit more room bats bats baton room bat bat bat bat bat bat bat more applied be playing a little bit more on top a little more r&b yeah if I'm going to play funk I'm going to be pocket it and and I'll be playing a little more syncopated bass drum so that's to me and in my ears and and knowing a little bit about the history of of the musics that that that's the delineation then a lot of great funk bands you know you had the bar case brass construction from um I think they're from Queens or Brooklyn uh this great funk horn bands and in my favorite earth earthmen of fire you know yeah which really sounded like early earthmen of fire if you listen to faces that's like a fusion record yeah you don't if you didn't know any better you'd think that was like herbie handcock or something well they're so talented they're so and there's so many members that it's like and they're such a well orchestrated uh band it's it's obvious that they're they're they're so on top of it that it some bands just stick out in that in that way of just being so talented yeah and and you know what when you add some of their songwriting and then you got the david foster songwriting and and when the how we orchestrated their backgrounds and horn parts and harmonies incredible so they're one of my all-time faves as well so I grew up listening to like all of that stuff so you know I'm you know when I when I play I think I think we all are sort of an amalgam amalgamated mix of so many of all our influences and then eventually it does come out like you because it's your physicalness it's your body it's it's what you hear it's how you play that's gonna come out you know and it's gonna come out only if you listen to the music you have to visit it musically you know and I and I say this to people in clinics and too is you can't come from somewhere unless you've been there and I don't mean go visit it physically I mean visit it musically so you can't come from a funk sensibility or an r&b or a rock or a jazz sensibility unless you've been there unless you've listened unless you've copped it and like on my record I got rock I got funk I got blues you know I got r&b you know I got you know ballad I you know in New Orleans we did a great version of pocky way so but all of those things are part of my listening wheelhouse you know not just the Beatles but I mentioned yes who's my my next I guess favorite you know group totally growing up listening to the police you know all of that stuff absolutely like Stewart's Grooves and like all of that is like part of my DNA listening and I think in drum history you know we don't go back far enough I mean I tell like like whenever I do a master class whatever that you know where's the last thing you listen to like oh whatever was on YouTube you know and I can you go back before 2000 maybe you know 1980 even or if you mentioned the 60s or the 70s music you're like what you know oh man music but then you play them some stuff and say but do you see that this you know is where who influenced these other people you know go go back to the source as close as you can as much as you can you know yeah now you have a very uh like there are there are people such as yourself I almost think of like Dom Familaro where there's these these guys who are like I would I would deem you you know looking from the outside of I don't know what label you want to put on yourself but almost as an independent drummer like an independent artist you play in your own band you've played with other people you do stuff with drummy oh you do all kinds of stuff like that drummers collective musicians institute um is there any advice you would give to drummers who were coming up in the educational they're they're they're studying they're working hard to go that route of being a clinician of of making a career out of it or did it just kind of happen yeah yeah I I mean I mean first of all um I just play music the only label I'm gonna put on myself is while I have my influences I've played my first I guess big gig was with Patty LaBelle um and but before that I did tons of Broadway stuff a chorus line I subbed a lot of shows so I did my sort of Broadway thing yeah um but I was prepared because I went I went to school for music got my bassers and masters in music performance and education because education I always was fascinated about you know the instrument and history so teaching is sort of you have to have a personality I think for teaching too and like wanting to give back um so I just wanted to do that I've always done it in my neighborhood I would give kids lessons on snare drum you know we'd go over to my house and kid asked me to play something I show them but I just play music you know and whether it's doing that or Gloria Gaynor's gig or or playing with Kaylee Manucci or Osnoi or and you know even going back and doing a Broadway thing or my own band or I did tons of club date work I mean I've you know I've done live tv like house band stuff stuff on comedy central was in a house band for a show called exit 57 we did like two seasons being in a house band that was a lot of fun so it's like whoever wants to hire me to play I do totally then I also educate and teach but um and then I design products as well some by accident some on purpose we'll talk about that a little bit tell us about the products yeah uh well I designed the p4 practice pad um which initially was with zilgen on a distribution deal then I had it made here in United States and now drummy always distributing it and uh it's a it's a multi-level practice pad with four surfaces and three levels looks something like this yeah you can see the different levels yep and you kind of move up it's kind of like moving around the drum set a little bit and it's got different surfaces uh softer harder this is more like a symbol you know so and that came as an invention from teaching I layered two practice pads on top of each other then I started getting my mind going and you know you have to be entrepreneurial I think in part and being in the industry you asked about that that that's a big part of it as well so I'm not a clinician you know I've got people I'm just a musician I'm a drummer I'm a musician who plays and teaches and makes living crew designs products I'm just in the industry and I think that's part of it you know um so yeah I you know I haven't hooked up with a big band to be the main drummer for yeah you know but I've done side gigs with major artists and I think a lot of drummers are like that you know I think you are absolutely right I think uh and I will say just so I don't forget you mentioned the Broadway thing and I very recently I want to give him a mention I got invited to go to the Mulan Rouge uh drum you know to the Drummer Mark Party, P-A-R-D-Y extremely nice guy long long time uh Broadway veteran was in Cincinnati invited me to go down in the drum booth and man you don't really realize until you're in there what's going on and how far you're kind of in the basement and you're in the this box and all that stuff the Broadway world is interesting for a reason yeah I mean you know just yeah just going back to my first show was the original a chorus line on Broadway you know with that would be this glamorous thing and I go down in my first experience in the pit as soon as I walked in the room and seen this mice running across eating all the popcorn in the junk that's been left on the floor by the band that I'm like yeah okay yeah I got it different yeah anyway but um yeah so there's a p4 pad I also designed the organic ride uh the Zildjian K custom organic ride cool that's been out a long time now about eight nine years um and I worked with Paul Francis on it and um it was just uh I wanted to hear a different sound um and a ride symbol that had a great bell something you can crash on but you can come back to the great uh stick articulation and um something that was uh very earthy but uh and looked great so it's an unlaid symbol um so the K custom organic ride I designed is one of their top selling ride symbols and it's available everywhere and also it's part of the sweetwater studio symbol package so if you go to zildjian studio package in sweetwater and you want to get a package of symbols it's part of that so you know it's it's always something it has to be you know and um so I'm working on the next record um already and talking to a couple different labels now which is labels are still a thing you know in certain genres and um and they can help you know it's not always a bad thing you know especially if they have you know a little bit of a budget to help you know make things work so um to working on that and of course will be the band will be gigging probably by the end of the summer into the fall um mostly around this tri-state area but probably more in New York the cutting room a couple other places but but yeah I mean it's being in people any advice I want to give it's just um it's so different now I mean when making videos was like a thing that only Hudson music did and so I was one of the first to put an instruction video out with Hudson music and I thank Robin while Wallace and the guys over there from the shout out to Hudson music these days everybody can do anybody does the video on their own phone it's it's it's so great you know um but how do you monetize that I mean like I knew that if I did an instruction video I was going to be making some money eventually you know yeah because that's what you do these days you make an you make a quote-unquote video and put it out there are you are you really going to make money is 200 what gets you money 200 thousand views yeah 300 well I mean how do you to be honest that whole that whole side of things of and I just to speak on that from my youtube experiences you put out something that you put all this time and on it doesn't even really matter unless you're at that thousand subscribers and whatever the limits you need to be at to get monetized if you get you can you can get it after the fact but that first initial you know big big amount of views wouldn't even count and you wouldn't get paid for it which but should you still do it yes because you know you that's how you get notoriety but it's it's definitely a different world that's for sure it's it's absolutely Bart and it's funny because notoriety is not you know it's one of those things where I think people are getting into the industry for it I never got into it for notoriety I only pursued it because this is what I can do the best yeah that's what I'm the best at and what I studied and what I worked at and what I trained at and and how I got my information was a lot different than how people get information now and if I do have and that's we're crediting drum history where it it's due if I do have a pet peeve I probably have a few those of you know me pretty well if I have a pet peeve it is those who do videos almost pretending as if they've invented this fill or this look or this beat without create crediting sources which I know for a fact I've seen a few that are licks right out of my book hands grooves and fills on Hudson music by the way orchestrations or things from other people's books that I know are from other books or I know that I've seen other drummers play and they don't credit them people you're not the first you won't be the last so it would be who of you to source your drum history where you learn things from and because there's a lot of us out here who know so that doesn't really put you in a great light no you know here's this great lick well okay you didn't invent that I mean that's been out for a minute so that's fine for those who may not have seen it before but at the same time it doesn't do our industry any good that's why I'm all about like this how it was played series on Instagram I want to do it for Ringo I want to do it for Claude at Jabba I want to do it for you know if I could do a rush thing I could do I I'm not sure what I'm going to do next but I want to show it was played and I want to shine a spotlight on those people that we've long all learned from and you know anything I mean are there are there certain fills or licks that I've kind of developed that I've heard Steve Gad do and turn around yes and do I say that's what the inspiration is yes yes some people don't think that's important and that's fine I I get that but I'm kind of not like that I'm right there with you I think that even if I'm doing a video that's that's about the history of something and I'm I'm taking pictures from somewhere else it's it's different but similar where I always try and put the person's name or where I got the photo or this part all these photos were provided by the guest because it really is not fun to be listening or watching something and going that's my picture and there's no and they just took it but it's very it is fun and it does feel good to get credit in the bottom corner and it's the same with plain yeah it's a respect factor Bart I think really isn't it it's sort of a respect factor you know and I I have to say I've I've been tagged on a few things on Instagram that are great you know that you know all from all over from Brazil different places I have to hit the translate button because I don't know exactly what they're saying yes tab but they're playing my exercise and are saying I learned this exercise you know at Pat P drummer and da da da da and I think that's so cool that's awesome I appreciate it I mean it's not about like okay I'm gonna sell another book I mean it's really really not about that it's really about saying hey man thank you it's that simple that's what I'm saying to Ringo yeah Ringo thank you Clyde man absolutely yeah and on the the flip side of it from from being at the Chicago drum show that I just got back from which I will very briefly to say it was incredible it was the drummer's hang it was the the great family reunion it was amazing to see everyone but I will say that it was it was like you know we go out to dinner afterwards and and you talk to three people our community is so small that you kind of always have not that you're but I would say anything bad about anyone but you kind of have to remember that like what you say in those three with our community what you say in those three people groups can very quickly spread to the entire community because we all talk to each other we are tightening and if if you're doing something kind of negative that you shouldn't be doing that really spreads fast so does good things so we always say oh this person's doing great this guy's such a nice guy this girl's great but if you do something shifty that you shouldn't be doing it spreads fast or that person steals yeah bad news spreads quicker than good news really does bad news spreads a lot quicker than good news because it's it's it's juicy and people want to know they don't want to know but we have a very tight industry as big as it is it's very so I guess another tip for people is you know another pet peeve of mine and John de Christopher if you're watching you'll dig this too who is the former rep artist rep for zilgen if you are so fortunate to be asked by a company to endorse their products which is not end all the be all got newsflash for you it'll do more for them than it will for you doesn't put any money in your pocket necessarily unless you design a symbol that's another topic but they don't endorse you I'm endorsed by blah blah blah I'm endorsed by it doesn't work by it doesn't work that way you endorse the company you say I proudly endorse x symbols I proudly endorse this I proudly endorse not they endorse me I'm endorsed by zilgen well they don't endorse you they're not an advocate you endorse them yeah you endorse the company because your reputation and your name reflects on the company and helps them to to elevate their product line so it's very self serving to look at things that way you're not they don't endorse you you're lending your endorsement your credibility and your experience whatever it may be or your talent to their brand that's yeah status alone guys that I looked up to all those years when I they say I mean I endorse and I play this and endorse this brand because I believe in it and I love Wade sounds that's not hey man I I'm endorsed by zilgen well I'm endorsed by this guy or endorsed by that I understand it's a two-way street obviously but that's not how it goes you endorse the company yeah that's another I mean it's different you guys if you're the top one percent drummers in the world and they're selling symbols by you know people buying posters that they see or you know bonzo plane and it looks you see piste on the bottom and then people buy piste that's literally like the top one or two percent but endorsements there's there's been a couple episodes on it it's an interesting thing I understand the the the drive for people to be so I was like it when I was younger where it's like I need to get an endorsement I need to get an endorsement it doesn't mean as much as people want and I think there's a slippery slope of you get an artist discount which is 20 off there's you're still buying this stuff it's it's a it's a whole different yeah I mean there's there's different every company has their own model but you know there aren't levels yeah there are levels and listen it's it's another way for them to sell symbols for sure uh to a large you know another percentage of of of people but um listen it's just it's just again it's a way of how you present yourself to the drum industry yeah if you're shouting I'm endorsed by I'm endorsed by I'm endorsed by people it's going to turn you off man you know yeah that's not that's not what an endorsement an endorsement is your endorsement of of their product not the company does not endorse you no and you know to be told that the company was to say that they endorsed you as a drummer or as a human being you know let's face it there's a lot of drummers out there with a little bit questionable you know things that they do on social media whenever it may be it's not always the greatest thing and we've we've seen some of that out there in the past few years but anyway that's just another little pet peeve but no giving credit where credit is due is so important I think both of those the endorsements and the credit and all that it all that all does wrap in nicely to what we said about how to be a successful kind of independent working drummer going from gigs doing your own albums it's all just your personality and it's all it all just plays into that yeah and it's and it is and it's not networking really it's it's relationship building and being in having a camp and a team of people like I have a team of a few people that that are helping with everything that I do and it's an important aspect and you really can't do everything yourself although I recently have been you know I'm pretty hands-on but I sometimes you have to not you know it's it's yeah um micromanaging is is is sort of my pet my pet thing that I do as well and um sure but if you want to get things done you're going to make sure you you're on top of it you know but business side communications being able to speak to people professionally and just be a just be a good person I mean yeah it's really really important you know be the best person you can be and I think you know you look at you had mentioned guys like you know Dom or anybody that's in industry Thomas Lang who's who's great player and educator and quote unquote whether they're educators or just great drummers they're they're excellent people you know and I think Peter Erskine was what it was a mentor of mine Steve Gad couldn't be more sweet I mean so those are you know people that you know I look up to and admire and and anybody you know it's an industry you know even my contemporaries people like you know Aaron Spears and who just signed on with Ludwig which is great and yeah I mean I've worked with Questlove on on his pocket kit you know cool Amir is this he's a sweetheart of a person I did some of the instructional beats for for his uh for his pocket kit the the kids drum set but yeah those are awesome this really really good good people you know Mark Giuliana great person you know great great drummer Keith Karlach another great person great drummer you'll you'll see that you know there's good people man you know and that's what you want to work with and don't just network with other drummers you got to meet bass players guitar players keyboard players music directors those are the people that are going to want to use you on a gig I mean that's how I got Patty LaBelle's gig was playing in a fusion group in Philly with Ed Hamilton and Jose Rossi who was in Patty's band he was in weather report and he was in Patty's band for a long time and he preferred me to audition so that's how things happen you know so that's a really important yeah absolutely there is another record that I did I don't mean to yeah I wanted to get it in and that's the Abbey Road Sessions record sure that I did at Abbey Road do you talk about history so that was our first record that that we did in Studio 2 and it was great horn band arrangements of Beatles classics and it's on my site you can get the CD only at patpedrummer.com and we got great drum sounds we used a couple of the same mics that you know Ringo used on his kit I used you know a vintage Ludwig drum set and Paul Francis picked out some great avidist symbols for me to use 15-inch hats 14-inch hats and that was a lot of fun just being yeah man just being in that in that room and listen there's guys in the UK that in that room once twice a week I get it you know but for a kid from Jersey it was a big deal you know that's a huge deal totally it was a it's a it was a fun record and it's it's out there you can get it on my site I might be re-releasing it on iTunes and all that in the coming year as well yeah yeah so so for everyone as we kind of wrap up here patpedrummer.com under shop you see all the the albums there's t-shirts there's the power station sessions album but there's also a drumless tracks which is really cool which I think we all appreciate being able to play to that yes patpedrummer on social media man I appreciate you being here very much and I just want to again say that before we end I want to say to everyone I saw at the Chicago drum show I had an absolute blast with you guys it was incredible to be back it is it is just there's too many people to name but it was a very cool end here some people said they listened to the podcast the entire drive from let's say Jersey to Chicago which is about 14 hours or something they listened to every incredible this episode so I'm I thank everyone for doing that that's great and Pat yeah I'm glad we could finally get connected and this is just a nice tight episode the episodes have been going on for like two hours recently so I'm very happy to have a nice short one of an hour and and to have you on my friend thank you for having me on really I totally appreciate you having me on thank you so very much and talking about everything and and I'm a big fan of of when you post stuff in in and learning about you know instrument history of drums or performance history of drums and it's just great it's just a it's a phenomenal thing that you've put together and many congratulations and continued success thank you pat and keep on doing what you're doing and keep us updated with what comes out in the future and we'll have you back on but for now thank you for being here absolutely thanks everybody