 What I just described to you now has become my practice of how I will be when I want to leave when I leave the planet. That's it. This episode is proudly sponsored by SIEMPO. Many of you watching have heard of Tristan Harris and the Center for Humane Technology. We've done many episodes on the perverse incentives around screen time and critically thinking about what balance truly maximizes our potential. SIEMPO built a new smartphone interface and browser extensions as the new home screen for humanity. They're at a crossroads looking for a new CEO to come in or to partner with a larger organization that has the resources to bring this incredible technology to the world. They've built a high integrity foundation and are teed up for something wonderful. If interested, message the founder Andrew Dunn at Andrew at SIEMPO.co. More info is in the bio. Thanks everyone and enjoy the episode. What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakiyan. We're on site at the beautiful transformative technology conference for a second annual partnership with them. We are now speaking with John Kamak. Hi John. Hello everyone. Thanks for coming on the program. My pleasure. I'm so pumped to dive into things with you. Let's start things off with one of our favorite questions we love asking our guests. Are we really all one? Well I would do a yes and no. And maybe ladies and gentlemen it's a trick question. I'm not sure we're going to find out aren't we? I think we all have common DNA. I think we may have a common spiritual connectedness but I also think part of the joy of life is being an individual in the oneness and becoming more defined in a self. Because if you become more defined in a self where you know what your boundaries are you're actually less anxious and then you have more capacity to act on your principles in the world. So I kind of like the duality of this. Interesting. There's connectivity but there should also be individuality and we need to honor that individuality while we also find ways to share values and common causes. So then there is this constant feeling on a moment to moment basis of deep interconnectedness and deep unity and oneness yet at the same time we carry this. Also this unique blueprint that we have of bringing some sort of a gift some sort of a contribution to our world and we carry those simultaneously. Well I think the I believe human beings have more good than bad. I believe that human beings are seeking ways to be good. I believe some people were never they never learned the lessons they needed and I live in Baltimore Maryland and Baltimore is a childhood city and I deal with those social issues as kind of a civically minded person working in community and I don't judge people on their behavior because I think in many cases they never learned how to let their goodness be expressed because they were under threat from when they were very young. So I think finding the goodness and then how do you bring it into kind of your principles of right action and to the extent I have a little Buddhist in me right action is something that I've worked to develop and I work to have it be an exercise and I always have it available to me in this conversation and whatever decisions I make after I leave this interview when I go home to my wife when I meet somebody on the street and I think that is a capacity that can be nurtured and I think the this conference when I look at all the interesting engineering and technology I can think of it as we're shifting brain waves we're doing this and that but I think are we giving people the ability to be calm enough to have that conversation with themselves where they find what's to be right and true for themselves where their higher self can become more available in their relationship in the day to day life's lives that they're living. What about your own personal experiences with those deep states of interconnectedness or ego loss or unconditional love, deep presentness? I've had them. As a young man I was enamored by an individual called Egger Casey and he's kind of gone out of favor but I viewed him as kind of the American almost like Presbyterian psychic he was grew up in a Christian tradition but as a young man he was able to go into a trans state and from that he began to provide readings to people he did thousands of readings he had a sonographer who recorded them they've been cross-referenced and he opened my eyes to the fact that there are altered states that we can reach and probably higher orders of consciousness I think part of my life has been trying to see how much of that higher state I can reach but not to just be a voyeur where I go have the experience but by how much kind of integrate in so it's that awareness or that I don't know if I'd call it a capacity I think I would call it a creating a way through a meditation practice where there's some availability to it right so you can be reminded or you can create reference points in your life so you get the contextual choices we all have every day framed in a way that is less about me being reactive or fearful but more about me being in a place where I get the context of how to how to be present in that moment with that human being or set of human beings so the ever case the experience made me be very devoted meditator through breathwork when I was in my 20s and it took me to altered states to I activated my Kundalini I had a whole phase where I was there was a lot of energy in my body I think it was almost too powerful for me so it was hard to hang on to it or it kind of scared me but I've always felt that I benefit from a practice and that practice is probably in a conference where you see tech in the name of the conference that the oldest mind altering technology is meditation it's like the ancient technology it never goes out of date yeah okay and for me personally any of the other technology which is very legitimate at this conference neural feedback photo biomodulation beds that create energy waves I need to have this core practice part of it and I view the other technology is a way to supplement okay is the most upstream issue our feelings of separation our lack of interconnectedness I believe that fundamentally human beings are the separation anxiety from your mother or from a higher existence is the fundamental thing we have to resolve in our lives yes I really do and what are your key strategies you think boy well I have I mentioned the practice I've been kind of a I would say I I'm an older guy now I'm in my mid 60s so my life has been trying to resolve this dilemma because until you until you know that you can exist there is like a a paradox you need to exist as a self but you need to also be connected and it's the challenge of dealing with both of these to be a non anxious being so I did a lot of work in my late 40s that involved a coach and I had to begin to think of myself as fundamentally ask the question could I survive as a self without the relationships I was in it was not because I thought I was going to lose them but it was being in relationship with other people create certain obligations were almost wired to provide and I think there is a dilemma for most human beings can I be in an intimate relationship and still be a self or do I surrender that to the the idea of a fusion with another human being and the work was to not be fused to my partner my wife and I was very fearful if I did that there wouldn't be a relationship and it was exactly the opposite the more I could be a whole self the more was available to be in the relationship because I could risk more it was actually it for me it was a beautiful unfolding so that was kind of a different type of practice to stay calm during that work I added an interesting technology beyond the ancient practice began to do neural feedback and the neural feedback was to allow my brain waves to normalize where there was a little less anxiety and I find anxiety is kind of the it's very prevalent in society I think now I think we're in kind of a regression so I view some of this technology can reduce that a practice can reduce it but for me going back to this story to give the punchline there was one or two very intense experiences that I can only describe as almost going beyond the framework it was like an ayahuasca experience without the ayahuasca where I knew on a fundamental level I could survive even if I was alone in the world and in saying it the language is nothing compared to the experience and it was one of at the conclusion of it I'd been given a freedom yeah because the freedom is that if you're beholden other relationships because you're worried about the rest of prosody which is the attachment issue you're not free to be all who you are right and when I had that freedom to be more at risk rather than giving me the freedom to leave relationships that gave me the freedom to be more present in them and they the energy in the relationships began to grow it was a beautiful it was a turning point for me so I think I'm giving you my own kind of response yeah to your question which I think you're asking it on maybe a more esoteric level than I'm responding your responses are examples and yeah this is this is my example from my life yes yes yes yes yes yes and deeply resonates and then what is the overall purpose of this creation I think it's to be in balance between being a self and being connected I think dealing with the duality I really do and I think that's the the journey of my own who's that's the play point the play point the play point is both is dealing with the duality of being seemingly separate of dealing with the illusion of that separation yes that's the play point that is this play you've got it that's the dance of life to me fundamentally and in a way becoming less attached in a way that lets you have your freedom to be present in the world without reaching without reaching or without avoidance and I when I when I look at myself as am I in flown in life I do an exercise every evening I look over the day so tonight when I go to bed the fact we're having this conversation now I will retrieve it along with other conversations I've had and I will ask and I will then do it assessment of the energy I had in the conversation was I reaching to be to approve that I want your approval more was I trying to fix something in you or was there something that emerged that actually I avoided dealing with it right and I became a little more distant I just want to be aware of that and it is very subtle but to me it's whether there's flow and whether I was being truthful and present to my own feelings into you out of respect for you so yeah it's an exercise that takes yeah I can do I can do a day in probably five minutes and to me it's being truthful to what was true for me right it's about me in relationship to myself and then I I'm aware of where did I again reach too far where did I avoid noted then is there something to fix it is a fix in the relationship or is in me being aware of my behavior and if I did reach who I avoided what was I fearing and was that fear a reality or not what's been remarkable in this little practice of mine is many times when there is something that made me react as I feared the next day I will go and reach out to that person and have an experiment of the thing I want avoided I will then face with them yeah and then I can look to see if the reaction I thought that was happening actually happened or not so I create a really interesting causality if you do the song enough you get a lot clearer yes it's a this to me is my in the world practice right yes with me being truthful to myself and having this this is me John Hayworth Kamak having as honest a relationship with my inner self as I can to be clarity because I think clarity is the power of being present without attachment right and that that can create for people that will do the work I think that where the comes to me is as I age with this is the grace of being in the world in a certain way that is easier for me right I don't carry the burdens of other people or my own burden and if one finds that then I actually I think with you there's a little moment of I'm feeling a moment of serendipity right serendipity is there are beautiful little occasions that make me feel the power of a god yeah that cares about us yes and can let us have moments where we can feel complete love for another human being and for ourselves yes almost as though there's a warm cuddling that's happening at those times this is to love yourself for being who you are with all my or your flaws because the the respect I have for myself is a soul making a journey yeah right and the journey's kind of messy you know because we got to deal with other human beings we got to deal with our own response just every time I do this exercise it's like taking a silk cloth in rubbing it against the stone and the stone is all my patterns and behavior but if you do it gently and you do it consistently you become a slightly more graceful being in the world um and then with that clarity I have found the freedom to go to different states because if you can have love this is about because what replaces the fear is an acceptance of the moment um this the extraordinary again another paradox the beauty that comes even when there's pain or suffering yeah that beauty and suffering can coexist so it's the ability to deal with complex paradox yes yes it does not rob you of your ability to be present with it yeah that's right so I'm I I'm going to take this a step further because I'm feeling like we're having a good conversation likewise so I'm 67 years old I'm accepting my mortality and what I just described to you now has become my practice of how I will be when I want to leave when I leave the planet that's it that's the last moment of consciousness I and I only realized realized this about a year ago that this practice was about how to be my practice my way of being most effective of being a graceful being on the planet in this life but it also was the way to release when it's time to go right yeah where there's a little choice and again the paradox will be there you have you're alive and you will be moving on right there are people you love you'll be leaving them right yeah to be able to hold that place yeah right and I can see my journey taking me there because it will come oh and it's and it's okay this is the other thing it's okay you actually see the beauty in it oh my god yeah yeah whereas the complete opposite is the fear in it well I didn't realize I was doing this to prepare for this but now I can see that it is part of my work and it is uh and I didn't intend this is not what I thought the outcome would be because when you're younger you don't really attach to the end but there's a point in one's life where this becomes accepting one's own death is probably that when we go back to attachment how much attachment any of us had to being alive right it's like the greatest insanity that we the state will be the state forever yeah so I I have this there's a beautiful little app out called you're going to die have you seen the app you're going to die there there may be another one that we use called we croak which oh we croak that's the one so I'm a power user of we croak it's a great one yeah and we croak gives you what five five a day little reminders that I'm going to die right and they're beautiful little vignettes usually a sentence or two or a paragraph so not only do do I do this but my wife who I've been married to for 31 years we read these to each other wow so so I did my own little inner journey and work but here's my my life partner and in reading these to one another we're recognizing this is our journey and it will we both this is an inevitable thing and is preparing us for again together but we will separate together and separate the the duality again we're one but we're separate and death will create that separation at least in this state of consciousness and it's brought this vividness of the how magnificent it is to have a day another day to be present and conscious where the little things suddenly start to become magical yeah because you're there and you're aware the the leaf leaving the tree going to the ground becomes because you're there in this body seeing that and I in my time with her I appreciate that but it said all things must end it's an exercise in attachment and it's intensified at least in my case the the joy the gift you're given if you become aware that is the presence of being but not needing it forever yeah being able to let go so yeah so that's kind of my spiritual journey and I can do out of body experiences and lucid dreaming and things like that but those are the the cherry on the top of the sundae experiences I think for me it's been the work of the 40-year practice to even to be able to articulate to you this inner life of mine which has given me the ability to deal with duality on a day-to-day basis a little more gracefully yes yes so this exact key here that has been communicated which is the gracefulness of dealing with the duality dealing with the illusion of separation from the one dealing with this this key how to gracefully unite with the one on a moment-to-moment basis and also have some sort of ability to learn these lessons that you've been communicating to us this one of all things and that this that this that this uh you know we just had jim doti on the show and he was saying no beginning no end no separation and that was very interesting as well so that kind of also in a sense yes we end in a physical potential incarnation but nothing ever ends this recording ends but but creation continues creating and becoming more alive so there is no end I'm I'm not sure what I believe about that um I'm I'm kind of an I'm unresolved on I think there is a higher I I believe there's a higher self but I gotta admit I'm going through an existential crisis on am I sure or is it something else so I try to simplify this I have a practice it gives me peace it gives me clarity I think I have an operating model of the context of what I'm doing uh I know there are higher states of consciousness because I had my moments and the moments are the higher I go the more I feel I feel connected to a broader and broader part of the world around me yes yes right yeah and uh it and by that is you are aware of yourself you're aware of all the life around you yes exactly yeah and um what I don't know is that when I leave my body is that where I go or do I go to the astral plane or do I go wherever my karma will take me you know uh that will be the great adventure right I'd like to I'd like to have trans tech give me a little way where I what I are you talking about say again what I what I are you referencing when you say where you go next what I my awareness isn't this all your awareness it is yes this is all our awareness you have and the collective yes yes this is all creation experiencing itself so when you say where does the eye go next it gets reabsorbed what would you say more aliveness could it be that on the other side of death of this incarnation is actually more aliveness and that this itself is the most beautiful thing possible this is the most beautiful thing possible for creation to create where we can feel the illusion of that separation and play and all be that and feel that and experience it through each other through the interconnectedness of all this may there may be nothing possibly more beautiful than this it's maybe the only impossible it may be the only impossible nothing else being more impossible nothing else being impossible except something being more beautiful than creation than what this is well I'm prepared to say again I'm going to speak from experience that I would agree with you that there have been moments in my life where the beauty is more available to me in the connectivity yeah I think we're all seekers for that I would think that I do believe that if there is a consciousness beyond this life the work we all do in this life will be reflected in the level of availability to that beauty we move towards and we're all seeking towards it yes I believe this world this universe is it had to be created by a higher consciousness it's just so remarkable yeah and that the fun about and you go back to the earlier question around separation we separated from that consciousness at one point and we separate you separate from your mother separate from that consciousness you're working to kind of resolve that through practice or maturity emotional maturity and it's kind of the hero's journey in another way is getting back right yeah yeah so I kind of think again when you go to trans tech it's for me I'm only interested in the companies that aid the journey yeah you know yeah and some of them will be distractions from the journey or how do you discern does it create a greater connectivity where I'm able to be in a place where I can more freely express be aware of the connectivity connection to myself connection to another that allows me to come out of my heart in a way that is building a genuine residence with another human being starting with myself that is it frankly built on love right um and something um so because I think there can be a performance part of this like I want to be better what I want to be able to work harder than somebody else at google it's like that's a materialism of having a brain that can do more and can compete better I kind of like it where it's I become a deeper richer person and then from that place I'll use other technologies that allow me to build relationship with others that lead net a more civil world and a world where there's less fear more love and respect and more peace inner peace and peace between human beings yeah that's what I'm looking for yeah I'm curious how do you feel about the next evolutionary step of consciousness flowering in this creation I think we're at a um I'm not sure which way it's going to go be honest with you what are the ways that you see well I can see an emergence of individuals that desire a better world that can be enabled by tools that let them find their better self and their higher self let them reduce their anxiety again fear is the opposite of love and can that capacity be brought to bear in ways that let people apply it to kind of societal issues where we heal the planet and in doing that we heal ourselves yeah or do we we let the the forces of fear which I think are very institutionalized around the world and in the US part of the beauty of creation itself but I think there's a threat that we're becoming more of a fear-based society right now and it plays out in politics it plays out in race some of the race part is historical and it's a terrible legacy but we need to get beyond that and we need to heal and we need to yeah we need to know that we can love we can what does it mean to love one another right so I only met you an hour ago right yeah so what and what in any of the seconds we were together what was the right way for me to be with you right so how do we how do more people think about that and not have the fear to act in a way that brings out your better side to be available and then it kind of compounds yeah I think these things kind of spiral in a way so butterfly effect out I do I think it can be this I think it can become an emergence right yeah or it can become a regression where we get more isolated than ourselves fear becomes more than norm and we begin to blame other people for our own unhappiness and then we hold them accountable for it and this is really ugly this is the greatest challenge of creation right there right now right now and it's playing out in our society so love and fear on the yin and yang right there man I think it's being amplified right so we need to have conferences like this because we need to amplify the love side the love side and we need to release the love in people so I wasn't really discussed this conference I believe it will be future conferences but I think the the work of reintroducing some of these ancient organics psilocybin and other drugs that yeah is because I was there in the 60s they have billions of years of intelligence they have they do and the life forms that have used them have a certain wisdom yeah right so and if you look at the creative the reason LSD was shut down was there were so many people who are their creativity is moving beyond the bounds of how society was structured it threatened the government yeah right so they just said it's illegal soon as it threatens the economic machinery which is profiteering on feelings of separation it is and that that's why this regression because there's too much profit for the media even that the two political parties yeah to be fear mongers to one another to one another correct yeah how do you offset that I would like to think that in the emergence of of these ancient organics that allow one to reset if you really look at what happens in the brain in the default network you and I are both kind of wired in a way we all of us are where a default network is kind of sets the context and have every respond to pattern recognition in our lives I kind of think of that is also the accumulation of our karma so it and if you've done the work working off your karma how long does this take okay a lot how many spins around the sun does it take right yeah so maybe these ancient compounds have been given to us to give us some freedom to do resets a little bit faster that you still got to do the work yeah still got a very interesting you got to do it in a in a context of trust and love to find your higher self yeah right and slay your demons but maybe I almost think that the reintroduction of these both underground and legal could let a generation of people begin to redefine the relationships you want with yourself with one another and with the planet yeah the planet the planetary consciousness that has yet to emerge in response to global climate change yeah I personally have a hope and a hypothesis these organic compounds is a gift that will let us redefine the relationship we want to mother earth yes and ourselves and it will be a renaissance yes that's the hope I yeah I take the bed every night yeah yeah John thank you so much for coming on our show and talking to us about this this has been deeply profound thank you it was an honor to be with you and with you thank you thank you thanks everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode let us know what you're thinking about all of these incredible points please let us know in the comments check out the links in the bio below to more of John's work check out links in the bio below the transformative technology conference thank you Brady 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