 Well, good afternoon everybody. It's my favorite stage of all the fireside stage kind of cozy. It's beautiful Isn't it? It just makes me feel like I've finally arrived in Helsinki when I see this in front of me It's amazing to be here. I'd love to just for the first couple of minutes Let Stephanie and James really tell you a little bit more about what they do so that you've got a better understanding of that And then we'll we'll start digging into the questions and speaking of questions Make sure that you have the Slido app open I'm hoping that this session in particular is going to cause quite a few interesting questions So we're gonna look forward to that Stephanie tell everybody what what you do Sure, so I'm Stephanie Ellis. I'm a co-founder of mystery vibe. We design developed manufacture and sell luxury pleasure products So smart vibrators So yeah, and I also I consider myself a sex futurist I do a lot of research into what's gonna happen in the future when it comes to sex technology and intimacy And I also host a podcast called the curious nature of sex where we talk about all kinds of topics Including sex robots fantastic and James. Why don't you tell everybody about itself? Yeah? I basically have begun a journey of exploring my personal potential Physical relationship with technology in the future in terms of kind of augmenting my body with this kind of canvas I have from my missing limbs and that led me to Be in contact with the BBC and since I met them I've been exploring also the kind of emotional level that humans can interact with technology and And that's led me to that can robots love us film and I kind of look to the ways that Technology can maybe fill in the gaps in some of the ways that humans aren't providing for each other in modern society Potentially so we explore that from like mental health to sex to companionship and stuff like that Fantastic, I mean, let's let's talk about that for a moment So, you know, we're obviously at a moment in time where the technology itself has as caught up to the point where we can now build sex robots and We have artificially intelligent sex robot called harmony that's just been launched Inexplicably has a Scottish accent. I can't quite figure out why It talks dirty to you in Scottish Not sure about the design decision there Of course, we have other robots that are making the headlines all the time Sophia is the first citizen of Saudi Arabia first robot citizen It's you know, where are we with the technology? How much further can we go? What's possible right now? And what does the future look like? It's super simple right now. I don't think we'll have a fully functioning robot that can Fulfill every desire that you have for quite a long time In fact, the only thing it really hurts at the moment is your wallet because they cost a lot of money But I think in the future, it's quite interesting for me because we talk about sex robots as if that's all they're gonna do Whereas I think what will actually happen is we will build robots who can fulfill many different tasks needs Whatever and having sex might be just a small part of what they do But we always focus on the sex because it's the most controversial. I don't know Do you think that's kind of a driver for the technology advancement though? because often we find that sex drives so much change in our society and especially I've heard from The people that I've met in the film that there's so much money behind it people move from jobs in tech with like deep mind and IBM and just go and work on trying to create a more advanced sex robot Just for the wages. Yeah, no, I kind of see it the other way around I think porn has been very much a driver of technology in the past but in terms of hardware We've actually been lagging behind for a number of years So, yeah, I don't know maybe yeah, perhaps, but I Feel like when we're thinking about robotics There are so many exciting things that we can talk about but everyone always focuses on the sex Yeah, I mean, it's quite difficult because we don't for example have bipedal robots already in the home assisting with with anything and to imagine that then we suddenly have robots that can do sexual relationships with people It's gonna take a while. Yeah, it seems crazy. I mean, that's a that's a really good point I mean, we've been talking about robots for a very very long time Consumer robots that are gonna help you with all of the chores in your house. I mean, I remember You know advertisements that were shown. Well, I don't remember them. I wasn't alive, but you know shown in the 1960s and They were shown this wonderful house of the future where there are robots running around all the time doing things for you We're not even there yet. We don't even have consumer robots So what chances are there that we're gonna end up with with sex bots even in the next 20 years that are reasonable I think one of the interesting Aspects as well as that when I say the word sex robot I'm sure for many people sitting out in the audience the thing that you picture will be a woman Probably a slim white woman because that's what media is showing us in film across news Like for example with harmony as well But I think when we're talking about robotics in this space We don't have to talk about one something that is human to something that is gendered There are already some really interesting robotics being developed that have That have no gender and no kind of physical form as a human at all There's one guy out of the US who's developing for example robots that Help elderly people who are alone or can like stroke you in your hospital bed when you're when you're unwell So I yeah, I I think another myth to bust is that sex robots are gonna be a human shapes to Gendered why do they need to be do you think it do they need to be because of our history our evolutionary history of growing up and Having sex with each other we don't tend to have sex with other animals and creatures I think we are starting to move beyond that I mean if you look at the sex toy industry for example years and years ago if you walked into a store or you'd be able to find our Dildos a vibrator shape like innocence landscape powers now Actually, the majority of developments and things coming out aren't shaped like that at all. They're much more economic They're very beautiful to look at they you could leave them on a fire side and no one would know what they were Maybe not on the fire. That's probably But I'm on the bedside table and people wouldn't recognize it straight off. So I think we're kind of going beyond Gender and phallic shaped objects. Is that because those things are Sex toys and their tools, but if we talk about sex robots, is it they want to kind of not just be doing this one task where they're just vibrating in a certain pattern, but they kind of We want to imbue them with qualities of humanity and give them kind of the ability to direct their own behavior And therefore kind of be mysterious and in that sense if we Create a humanoid robot. Do we miss out on all of the subtleties of what a human can do and is that needed? Do you think that's needed if there's a robot that we make that's like a big purple blob that has various ways to interact with you I'm sure someone would enjoy that. So we don't have to do it for everyone Everyone has different likes different dislikes different kinks different fetishes. Um, so to create something that is so narrowly Minded and I think actually it's interesting that when you first said I think one of those changes was the fact that you had More women joining the sex toy industry and that really pushed the design of new types of products So, yeah, I'd love to see more women developing robotics in this space as well Do you in your experience? Do you think it's like a narrow-minded male gaze then that we're just going yeah Well, this is what we want only that at the moment. Uh, at the moment, yeah I quite like the idea of a purple blob, you know, for somebody who's got a fetish for Barney the dinosaur I'm sure there's someone out there. There must be somebody So, I mean to talking about that interaction piece Big in the news for the whole of this year every single week. We've been talking about artificial intelligence artificial intelligence aligned with you know conversational user interfaces like You know Alexa and Siri and Google assistant natural language processing natural language Understanding that understands context and can actually interact with you in a proper way now, you know How is that going to impact the the sex industry as we move towards sex robots and any other type of sex Toys in terms of providing maybe that almost human interaction that is currently being used in customer services But you know could be adjusted and used for for the sex industry, right? Do you want a vibrator that gives you pillow talk? How's that gonna work are we gonna use AI in that way I think it well it already is I mean the guys who are building harmony are trying to put artificial intelligence behind her I guess some of the very interesting questions that we that we come across There are so many ethical questions I think at what point do we consider some kind of robot a conscious being at what point does it need to consent? Who owns the data around it? Or for example, if you and a partner owned one who owns the data if you break up There are a whole bunch of interesting questions that we could start asking That we're just not talking about now. Well, I don't mean now because we're talking about it now But society is not talking about But yeah, absolutely artificial intelligence will play a big role in pushing forward robotics and sex robotics I mean, that's that's an interesting point right now We can actually customize advertisements to you based on your Fitbit public profile Are we gonna have advertisements being customized to your your sexual performance profile? Well, it's interesting you say that as there's in the UK There's a bill going through parliament called the digital economy bill and it's gonna bring in something called age verification So I think it's from April next year in the UK if you visit any porn site at all Be it free be it page You're gonna have to verify your age and the majority or the way they think they're gonna do at the moment is through credit card details So you'll have to create an account with your credit card details And it's gonna give one company which currently owns the majority of free and tube sites a lot of information about what? You're searching for what you're watching how long you watch it for which bits you watch Even where you're from quite specifically said that kind of data collection is already kind of happening And we're gonna have to be very very responsible with the way that we use that data obviously and what happens in the UK I think we'll set a precedent which unfortunately It's not a good thing But yeah Yeah, well, how do you feel about data collection? How do you feel about AI and you know what that could mean for the future of this? Um When I think about interacting with AI today If we can call the AI it's kind of very To me you're frustrating limited even if I go home and ask Alexa to turn on the lights She doesn't always get it right so to get the level of complexity where you've actually forming companionship with a robot and Having sort of I think the goal that people want is to have like a meaningful connection with these sex robots So I don't know how long that is going to take because that's the surrounding technologies away from sex I'll just not good enough. I feel like the sex robots that we see today That's it's kind of like we've seen the sign that the ball is rolling, but they kind of feel like Kind of if you think of a The the ideal sex robot as being like a Boeing 747 something that's like polished up and has all I don't know miles and miles of wiring and complexities and systems I feel like what we have now is like a paper airplane because if they've just put the shape of something that does something You can put your penis in it. That's it I feel like that's the stage you're at and also between now between a paper airplane and a Boeing 747 You're gonna have a lot of like airplane crashes and lots of crashed by planes and probably are horrible repercussions, right? I mean you talk about you know making a meaningful connection if we look at say Japanese society They've been making meaningful connections with technology for a while through video games and what they have That's led to it's very much a Culture where the kids are just not going out and meeting each other. They've become socially inept The you know birth rates have dropped massively You know, what do you think the sex robots are going to do in terms of that kind of future are we going to end up? basically just not meeting each other and Propagating potentially, I mean we kind of see if we just think about modern technology that already affects us and our relationships you can look at something like tinder and How that kind of changes the way that people behave with one another one another because they're just swiping past kind of in a gamified way maybe not even being there kind of being a fake self being not their best self and it's changed the way that kind of People are almost disposable because they're just it's an endless stream. So if sex robots come in and Initially if they have this female form, I feel like already that is quite dangerous because there's the potential that people are Maybe these reclusive people having sort of a one-sided relationship where they're taught that this robot just does what they want It just gives them what they want. It doesn't there's not a two-way process And I wonder really what that would do to someone if they Learned that that's how you interact with something that is humanoid. And so how will that change their behavior in the real world as well? I don't know It's an issue because me actually I kind of want to take a straw poll out of everyone sitting in the audience Who would have sex with a robot if I offered it to you today? If you have not very many Just think Clearly they're not popular But I think I think you bring up a really interesting point around intimacy as well And I'm interested in your take as well having spoken to people around the kind of mental health aspects Because I think when we when we talk about sex robots Very frequently we talk about it in the media as if it's just weird people for fulfilling weird fetishism weird kinks But actually I think they could really play an important role in in the kind of caring sense as well So you have for example a robot called paro which is a cuddly like seal toy that helps all people with dementia or You could use some kind of robotics for people who have some anxiety people who excluded from their community To kind of help them bridge towards more human connection. So in that way, I think robotics can help us kind of Reclaim some of our humanity almost Yeah, it's and by the way, you mentioned tinder for robots actually somebody who's calling themselves anonymous in the audience I hope that's because they don't want to give their real name and it's not the infamous hacking group They're asking is there a tinder for robot? Actually, I think there's a tinder for bots because most of the people that match with me are clearly not real There's a better question here. Do you think we can create robots that humans will really fall in love with and What are the implications for human kind then? I mean, how do you feel about that stuff? I think people empathize with their technology at the moment And actually that concept of love is it's one the question that comes up time and time again And you'll see it explored in like as anyone seen Westworld Great TV series if you haven't seen it I highly recommend watching this love concept always comes up and I think I don't see a problem with people falling in love With robots every question is kind of robots fall in love with you too, and they program to do that. Are they conscious? I mean, maybe it's just a forever unrequited love with robots hmm, I mean it also brings to My mind the fact that the population I mean maybe in some locations They feel like their populations aging they not have enough a high enough birthing rate Compared to the rest of the world So they feel like they're losing out potentially in the future as as a country But globally we are becoming overpopulated So what if sex robots are some strange creepy blessing that kind of shifts the way that humans Exist on this planet and like reduces our burden on the on the earth What if what if we strategically launched them in countries where they're needed? Yeah in very horny countries countries Nobody's ever said that in a panel discussion before you heard it here first so, you know What what is coming next? As far as you know, the entire industry is concerned because we we're clearly not At the sex bot stage. So let's talk about some of the products that are Available right now and the way that people are interacting with them and what's coming next just in the next year or so But might start taking us baby steps along the line to you know the full-bones sex robot experience It's an interesting one Because most of the products that at least within the kind of sexual accessories space All right, most of the products that are coming out at the moment or the the biggest growth space in the industry is for couples So I think we'll see more stuff coming out around around that I think there's some interesting things happening around for example, telly dildonics So the idea that you can have sex over distance some kind of haptic feedback And that's something that I'm I'm working on and releasing and over the next few months You'll also start to see I think more data-driven smart products So one of the things that we're really keen to do with our products is Start to use sensors to understand the body and once we can understand what turns you on we can curate a whole bunch of content For you and create a real experience So it could be your smart lighting your smart heating your Spotify Even like sensory in terms of smells is very important So I think you'll start to see a lot more data-driven products coming onto the market Especially as there is a pattern That will run out from the US that is to do with any internet connected sex product So as soon as that pattern runs out, I think Kind of middle of next day. You'll start to see a lot more interesting products surfacing like the question of Perceiving someone's physical state I find really interesting because if we got to a stage where technology advanced So much that if we did have a humanoid sex robot in our homes. I Think about something like the Microsoft connect camera that you can use to it can detect your heart rate through the kind of flushing of blood in your face Is there the potential that in the future we could have robots that are able to perceive So much about us just as we kind of walk into our home They can kind of tell how your day was and you they probably tapped into your phone They've seen all your conversations. You've sent the entire day. They know if you've had a bad one They might basically have so much power and so much control over understanding your state that maybe they could be better than a human lover where you kind of You're having sex and you're someone mistaking communicates and something goes in the wrong hole or something and everything's gone wrong Like what if the robot just perfectly knows what you want and just gives you that maximum experience the best orgasm of your life Right and like where are humans then after that? I don't know. I think I think some people might prefer robot sex. Some people will prefer human sex. There'll be Differences and I want it diverse. So that's so valid and it like a lot of the discussion the media is like the sex robots are coming They're gonna ruin the world coming but right But essentially it's not for everyone is it we're not saying everyone has to have one. No, no, no And with all of this as well, you know, I worry about what happens when we've got to all of this data We have these connected devices like telly dildonics, for example, what happens when anonymous who's asking all questions here Goes and hacks into all of the devices around them. I mean is that a worry or we are we concerned about what happens when people hack into These devices. Yeah, I guess hacking is always a concern and I kind of say that in these days Nothing is unhackable. So it's all about the contingency that you place around how you store your data What data you store and the fact that it's anonymized So even if someone did hack into your data The most I'd get is a few like squiggly lines and graphs that doesn't really mean anything and isn't connected directly to you So yeah, I guess that's kind of how you go around the data point But yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting question and as products get smarter Guess the thing is that sex is still such a taboo topic if it wasn't as taboo in society Then we wouldn't be as worried about I mean Do you care if someone knows that you had a wank last Monday a robot wank or a normal one Would you mind I guess if society has less taboos around sex full-stop, which I think it will do over time Then people won't mind as much sharing the data and but the most important thing I always find is that you have to ask for consent consent in sex is the most important thing and it really needs to transfer to sex and Technology you have to make sure you have people's informed enthusiastic consent to give their data Which is why I'm concerned about things like the digital economy bill in the UK, which is pretty much going to force you to opt in Yeah, absolutely. Well everyone and a final word on that Joe I'm just thinking about like an Regenerated offline world of pornography Just nudie mags everywhere because no longer you have an ornament anonymity of online Yeah, yeah, it's weird. I mean creating closed loops that aren't linked to the cloud is one way of getting around kind of sharing data But yeah, maybe everyone will go back to porn max. That's over it. Well, you heard it here first We're gonna see a resurgence in porn max fantastic. Thank you so much to James and Stephanie It's been wonderful. Please give them a huge round of applause. Thank you