 When I really knew something was wrong was when I started having trouble walking up the stairs I Was supposed to be grateful and happy and healing and well and thriving But I did not feel that way. I was so sick Like always I wanted to find an answer and I had to figure it out and I had to figure it out to save my own life So I dove in Jill is the leading voice in biotoxin illness and chronic conditions that are driven by toxicity Oh my gosh, you're dealing with mold. You have to work with dr. Jill Garnahan Dr. Joe is the first person that actually began to shed some light on the problem What I do is listen to the patient and we together talk about what else is possible She saved my life the deepest lessons and most profound insights Come in the suffering come in the dark moments Self-compassion is the healing transition that that shifts something inside of us It's actually the thing that we need most in order to heal Dr. Patient Available now at drpatientmovie.com Welcome to a resiliency radio your go-to podcast for the most cutting-edge insights and functional and integrative medicine I'm your host dr. Jill and each episode we delve deep into the heart of healing and personal transformation Join us as we connect with renowned experts thought leaders and innovators at the forefront of medical research Empowering you with knowledge and inspiration on your journey to health today. I am absolutely Excited to introduce you to my guest dr. Raymond singer a board certified forensic neural psychologist specializing in neurotoxicology He testified in several groundbreaking litigation cases expanding the rights of people to get compensation For neuropsychological injuries from toxic neurotoxic chemicals He served as an expert witness in the landmark age witness in the case against agent-oriented vietnam veterans litigation Which resulted in the largest settlement at that time for toxic chemical injuries. He was recently featured as an opinion Featured in an opinion by the united states supreme court Dr. Singer welcome so much for excited to have you here Thank you. I'm glad to be here Yeah, we've got a lot to talk about before we dive into Neurotoxicology and forensics Tell us a little bit about how did you get into this area of medicine and and testifying? For clients, how did you get into this pathway? Well, it goes back a long way When I was a graduate student in washington state university And I was watching tv one day And actually there's a black and white tv And I saw an image of dr. Irving selicov At the top of the annenberg building in new york city Talking about his work in environmental toxicology And I was so inspired by his words his actions his demeanor And the work that he was doing That well it didn't it didn't go any it didn't go beyond that at the moment until years later When I was in new york city I was asked by my sisters Who's a psychologist my sister's friend? Who was working for dr. Selicov? And she was pregnant and she wanted me to substitute for her On a trip to michigan state To conduct research on neurotoxicology And I was at that moment. I was a postdoctoral fellow at new york university But I I managed to get this a couple weeks off to join the team And we went to michigan state And we I can tell you about the research we did there But this was done in the direction of Irving selicov the man who brought asbestos to the world's attention. Yes And he just was a The premier the premier I believe the premier public health doctor of his day So he he brought me into the program and There is where I learned Neuro psychology neurotoxicology epidemiology some more statistics And was inspired to To go out and apply the knowledge that we learned there We we went all we went in various places around the country To examine workers exposed to solvents lead mercury pesticides and agent orange and It was my work Doing nerve conduction velocity assessments. Well of agent orange uh workers That led later to my being hired On the agent orange litigation. Yeah Because the the work I did was I guess groundbreaking showing the neurotoxicity of the agent orange. Yeah This is so needed. That's why I'm so excited to be here with you today because here I am I'm a medical doctor in clinical practice and every single day one of my Areas of expertise is how the environmental toxic load and the toxins and toxins in our environment Affects our bodies and it's something that sadly most medical professionals are very Unaware of and to me it's the elephant in the room of all of our immune dysfunction and our brain dysfunction And our rising rates of Alzheimer's disease. And again, you're going to talk a lot about this I'd love to frame this with a quote from your website, which is a full of resources neurotox.com And it says at the very top neurotoxicity Neurotoxicity is a cause of brain damage. Common symptoms can include problems with memory Concentration reaction time sleep thinking language as well as depression confusion personality changes fatigue Numbness of the hands and feet and many many more things Many of the nervous system disorders could be caused by a neurotoxicology or neurotoxicants Including numerous neurologic and psychological disorders. Now again, you and I know this but for those kind of listening What Percentage of people that are experiencing neurological or psychological or symptoms like that. Do you think could be At the core potentially a toxin? It it can be very large In part because As you know, and as your listeners might know The the brain itself doesn't have pain receptors So if it gets The the the covering does the door and but the brain itself doesn't have pain receptors so When if people are injured by a toxic substance, they won't necessarily feel the pain now headaches can result from the inflammation and and so forth and the inflammation of the blood vessels and and the dura but It may not be an initial symptom So unfortunately we can suffer from neurotoxicity and and not be aware of it like uh, like the big problem with lead that we've had in our society and lead pain and and Lead and gasoline and people getting injured and and that's it's pretty subtle because it's The brain injuries are also relative to cumulative so Once you get an injury, it's it's it's difficult to to recover uh Although some doctors are well versed in how to bring about that recovery, but most doctors are not so um with with the loss with with the with the accumulation of a brain injury and Possibly the synergistic effect of different chemicals that we might be exposed to for example lead or in the environment or mold or um pesticides in the food supply That's why I encourage everyone to eat organic produce because The pesticide residues are remaining in the food stuff as well as the GMO aspect of the food supply And the roundup that's put onto the GMOs That gets into the food supply so This unfortunately leads to an assault on on us and on the brain Of a variety of toxic chemicals that our body has to deal with and manage and If it's a small amount, yes, we are detoxification systems will work fine and We'll be able to detoxify but if it's a large amount then then it's it's taxing and we We may suffer from silent brain damage That can result in in all the symptoms that you mentioned because The brain controls Every all behavior it controls the nervous system. It controls the heart rate. It controls digestion sleep Yeah, personality memory energy levels and on and on and on and on and one of the One of the interesting Interesting from a neurotoxicological point of view But but unfortunate is that any part of the brain Can be affected by toxic substances so any Function of the brain can be injured by toxic substances and sometimes it could result in In in strange types of behaviors in strange types of problems but more typically More commonly there's problems with short-term memory learning reaction time psychomotor speed Long-term memory tends to remain But more recent memories start to fade and new memories For many people can't even be formed and another Undiscovered aspect an un talked about aspect of neurotoxicity Is its pervasive effect on personality? Yes, and this this is rarely studied in neuropsychology or neurotoxicology But in my years of working with People with chemical exposures, I guess probably in the thousands And administering personality tests to many of them I could tell you that personality is often affected And often damaged by the exposures and it could be secondary to the loss of function Or it could be a primary effect From on the brain areas that control personality Which must be pretty widespread. Did you want to ask questions or should I keep going? Oh gosh, I love this Well a couple of thoughts and then I want you to keep going First thing is I love I just want to reiterate toxic load is a concept that you're talking about I've talked about a lot too Where you often we're born and we're born in this world 20 years ago The cord blood of infants had over 200 chemicals from a canadian study So we often come into the world with toxic load and then as we Accumulate in our environment and like you said, I think it's really important to understand that sometimes we can tell But many times we are inhaling or ingesting or getting exposed through the skin or through the air These chemicals and we don't even know it and one concept that I wanted to highlight was insight I've seen this with mold insight is the ability in real time to understand what's happening And many times with chemical exposures and in my experience with mold you lack the insight It's actually almost sabotages your ability to know in real time what's happening You might look back later and say oh that was so strange that behavior or that Lack of memory and you may put it together in hindsight, but in the real time We often don't realize how much it's affecting us. Is that true? That's absolutely true and and many of my clients Think that they're going into Alzheimer's disease because of Because of what they're experiencing and actually the symptoms of neurotoxicity are Very similar to Alzheimer's disease. In fact, you could almost say indistinguishable because Alzheimer's disease is It's a diagnosis that people get when they have certain symptoms But the cause of Alzheimer's disease is probably not plaques. Correct Oh That's interesting. We have similar viewpoints on this. Dr. Brett is then who's a teacher and how to reverse Alzheimer's and looking at all the Underline cause will actually say that one in three of his young people with I'm talking young 40s 50s early 60s with Alzheimer's are related to mold toxicity And maybe that's a good transition because we both love to talk about mold What are maybe some of the interesting cases or things you've seen related to the mycotoxins that mold produces And how it affects brain and personality and some of these things. Oh Well, I've I've seen a lot of mold clients. I actually started studying mold neurotoxicity in 1999 when Professional nurse organization asked me to give a talk on it. I said, I don't know anything about it I said, well, I'm not about it and come and talk to us about it So I did that and I've testified in many mold cases over the years Two mold cases come to mind one was of a family exposed to mold in in a region Where there was a lot of the initial amount of rainfall And an unusual infestation Then of mold into their home over a period of time and and the little girl in the family She developed an autism like condition autistic like condition and Was actually quite destructive self-destructive and Threatening she's threatening her parents with violence. So she was just a little girl She couldn't perpetuate violence But it it it modified her personality and her emotions as well as her ability to think and she You know, she suffered from that Another mold case that I worked on It included other toxic chemicals, but this was a criminal case in A man who lived in a moldy in a moist part of the country In a trailer that was very moldy visible mold in the trailer and He uh He eventually he lost his mind and he went out and he Well, I hate to you know, spring up bad things But he shot and killed a bunch of people including uh a law enforcement officer who Was a friend of his And he said he was he said he was going he was cleansing the land for Hispanic people He was part hispanic He was cleansing the land for hispanic people So he got these delusions into his into his mind that were partly induced by the mold and And my colleague at the at the time took samples and We think that there may have been a variation of lsd in the walls and on the pillows From the various mold mycotoxins that were um that were emitted. Yes uh But I'll talk a little bit more about the case and and then we can go to something else so um What was interesting about the case Is that He was he was he was suffered a death penalty And uh, we were able to show the show the court that there were mitigating circumstances Yeah, to what caused him to go insane and to commit these horrible tragic crimes But we were able to show the court That neurotoxicity including mold. Yeah, and altered the brain the structure of the function of the brain and leads to permanent changes that can alter a person's ability to control their impulses to judge to manage their behavior And um and in this case He was spared the death penalty And he was put into A uh a Beautiful psychiatric facility where I had actually examined him. Uh-huh in the state Uh very uh very nice facility, but Unfortunately, he still was mentally ill And he got a girlfriend to try and Have him break out of the jail Oh So Wow, last I heard he was put into state prison Hey everybody I just stopped by to let you know that my new book Unexpected Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine Science and Faith is now available for order wherever you purchase books In this book I share my own journey of overcoming life-threatening illness and the tools and tips and tricks and hope And resilience I found along the way This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions infections like Lyme or Epstein bar and mold and biotoxin related illness What I really hope is that as you read this book you find transformational wisdom for health and healing If you want to get your own copy stop by read Unexpected.com There you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine in finding resilience And I was probably going to be there for a while When I've often wondered like because some of the most affected water damage buildings are civic like courthouses and prisons and schools And again, you and I know how much this can affect brain I have several school systems that I work with kids that we know there's water damage and there it's affecting I can document their learning or IQ there is gone down in certain situations And then there's another story I have I've mentioned this on on air before but I have a friend who had a house Who was massively affected by starchy batteries, which produces some really bad trichocytine toxins And they didn't know this but later they looked into it in the previous owners like several times back There was two homicides and a suicide in that home And I have no doubt that it's connected to those micro toxins because it really does change Brain function. So keep going with some of these cases fascinating, but I get it and it's so real And I actually love that you're bringing awareness because I think especially my patients sometimes feel like What is wrong with me? You know, I can't think clearly or um, or a lot of times I'll see relationships or marriages break up because of the personality changes Um, so you you and I both know this really affects people so profoundly Yeah, I would say that Very often the families break up over Sometimes they were mold but they never in earth had to toxicity in general But I've seen a lot of family problems. Yeah, uh, because this Even if even if they realize what's causing it It's the changes in personality and behavior are so profound that they just The spouse just sometimes just can't take it anymore Yeah What are some of moles I could talk about all day long and we both know there's profound effects one thing I thought too when you're saying that is the sale in which trials they think now in hindsight That there was some mycotoxins in the grains that affected them like lsd Which makes sense of that test that you mentioned Do you come across some of that data from those? You know, yeah Uh-huh. Yeah, that that's that's what I thought about one in this case Where they they found lsd or lsd like substance is unfortunately my colleague who was the Premier expert in mold jack thrasher. I don't know if you know him. Yes, I do Okay. Well, you know, he passed away And uh, it's a tremendous loss and also k. Kilburn. Yes another leader in the field. He passed away so, um, unfortunately The leaders passed away another Occupational hazard is they lose their licenses to practice medicine Uh for diagnosing a maltoxicity Yeah, personally, I think things are shifting a little but it has been it's a it's really crazy because and for those listening The in medical school were taught that it's an allergen That is true But what we're talking about this is a whole inflammatory innate immune system dysfunction that it massively affects Cognition in brain and immune function and so many other levels and it's not just an allergen Right, right Um Okay, I'll get back to it this okay I've been thinking about this about multiple chemical sensitivity. I've worked in many of those cases also Yeah, and some of the other common things you see as toxicants or toxin exposures in some of the cases I'm sure there's solvents and there's metals and there's Chemicals like pesticides like we talked about do you want to share some of the different kinds of cases that you've come across That have affected people very dramatically that maybe our listeners wouldn't be aware of Oh, well, uh, yeah pesticides You do have to watch out for those and and I am Actually currently working on a case of people with with pesticide exposure from uh From exterminators who who misapplied the pesticides in the homes. Yeah Yeah, there is another another hidden toxin I wanted to talk about toxic substance that that Can affect modern homes Beware if you have A foam insulation to insulate your walls In your home be aware of it if it's if it's misapplied It can continue to outgas into the home environment and put out Methylene diosicinate As well as the flame retardant forever chemicals can uh Can also be emitted from these substances and I'm working on a case where a whole family was affected by this it was a a family that that Built their dream house on a hundred acres of land and It had everything in it and it wanted it to be really well insulated and unfortunately the app the uh people applying the substances applied it too thickly and it Then consequently took a long time To out gas and out had to out gas a lot So that's one thing to be aware of in home insulation Um pesticides What about um, I mean you had cases where other materials in the home like formaldehyde or off-gassing of things on cabinets or flooring or maybe flame retardants Um any kinds of cases because it seems like the home we want this to be this wonderful safe place, right? But what ends up happening is if there's water damage or there's new materials that we're not aware of Sometimes the home can be the problem because it's off-gassing or contributing to the toxic air quality inside Yes, yes for sure formaldehyde is less of a problem these days and I'm I think it's because We raise such a fuss about it When when it was first so widely used a couple decades ago And when we participated in litigation against the formaldehyde Uses and companies And now there seems to be much less of it and used in products Yeah, but I would be careful in mobile homes. I'm not sure because that that's a pretty closed environment Um, what about we mentioned before we get on here that sometimes Psychiatric drugs can have effects and I know I've seen cases I'm sure ambient is one of those that you've seen do some strange things and maybe the SSR eyes Do you want to tell us a little bit about sometimes how these drugs may have unintended effects And how you might have seen that play out in the courtroom? Yeah Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah, so psychiatric drugs um Read the labels very carefully Because a lot of times you could you find warnings on the labels of what could possibly happen and The drug companies, you know, it's good to put them on the labels that people can know that But many of these psychiatric drugs that are designed to to improve mental health I've been linked with violence aggression hostility Homicide reports of homicide if you look in the uh, There's The uh, I forget what the acronym stands a reportable Injuries as yeah, if you look on the reports, which I did so I've been involved in several criminal cases where people actually committed murder And I was able to to link that to The psychiatric drugs that they were taking and typically Typical the typical scenario goes like this a person is Not feeling well They have some depression or whatever the problem is anxiety. They go to their doctor typically it's may say a GP general practitioner or and maybe not a psychiatrist and They have prescribed the drug and They come back to the doctor a little while they say, you know, I'm feeling worse With this drug What can you do? And then then may they may double the dosage or more They may add another drug and then and then Then they then the person that's taking the drugs is taking Way too many drugs that's causing mental disturbances And then the practitioner may suddenly take one of the drugs away which leads to the The Withdrawal symptoms or draw symptoms and the abrupt withdrawal syndrome from from the from the abrupt withdrawal And then maybe add another drug. Anyway, this goes on and Unfortunately Sometimes it's a spouse That could become the the victim of of a person who who develops just a a psychotic break and Goes into a rage and and commits murder and so I've worked on these cases and and Another interesting aspect of the case is that even When we can demonstrate that the person had diminished responsibility for what they did It The person still Has remorse. Yeah Because they still they they did it. They know they did it And and maybe a drug Impaired their ability impaired but but here they did it and and They suffer a terrible loss of someone that they loved that they still love And it's it's a terrible tragedy all around So I just encourage people if you're taking psychiatric drugs and you're having adverse effects Or you're having a worsening of effects and talk to your doctor and tell them the you know, that you're you're not feeling well and Ask the doctor to consider whether it's an adverse effect of the drug. Yeah, don't don't stop taking drugs Uh without a doctor's supervision Because that itself can have an adverse effect. Yes, you're right These things are very very powerful and I couldn't agree more And we really as a physician we need to monitor if our patient is taking them But also as a if you're a patient and you're out there and it's not working Or you like you mentioned I'm a general practitioner and I know my limits And so some cases like those I would make sure a psychiatrist or an expert Is involved and that's another thing you could do as a patient if you're out there and Concerned about your you know Medications you could see an expert in that area to make sure that you have good proper supervision So I really like that you mentioned that Have there been you know, we've had a lot of the golf war and or that I'm sorry the agent orange and some of those things I want to talk a little bit about that But there are these cases where either an environmental Like some of the the trains that exploded in the chemicals and the environment Have you been involved in any of these places where there's a lot of people in an area affected by a certain chemical? Hmm Not that many of that We're specific. Okay. Not that many typically I'm hired Now by a lawyer Who represents an individual got it with the problem. Okay, and One of the problems just generally speaking with with Class action litigation is it doesn't? Often the individual doesn't gets lost in the shuffle Yeah, and then maybe the group Gets money and the lawyer gets lots of money And they settle the case and that that's great for them But the individual may not get the compensation that they Won or they need But I did want to talk about Another general topic Sure, which which I would call the the neurotoxicity of warfare Yes, was that that's a huge source of neurotoxicity in our society and Just just to review the agent orange litigation. It was some of your listeners May not be as old as I am. It may not remember what went on. Yeah, but uh Agent orange is an herbicide that was used to defoliate the forest so that the american Pilots and bombers Could see the vietnamese Adversaries vietcong As they as they traversed the ho Chi Minh trail and other places And so they would use tremendous amounts of these herbicides to defoliate the forest which actually is The forest is the area the land is still contaminated with dioxin from from these From these these efforts And of course the vietnamese were affected by the agent orange And uh, so the dioxin is a contaminant of the agent orange From the 2 4 5 t to to a large extent It wasn't meant to be there But it got there and dioxin is At the time was considered and maybe still is one of the most toxic substances known to man. Yes so, uh So I feel sorry for the vietnamese who have been exposed to it But also our our service men and women that were there Were exposed to the agent orange during It's handling it. It's loading up the devices to spray it during the spray of it and the manufacturer of didn't tell the people that Well, yeah, it could be neurotoxic. There's some studies that show, you know in rats and so forth Oh, they they know or they should have known that it was neurotoxic when they were giving it such a widespread application And um, so that's how the the vietnam veterans They were able to sue the chemical companies for this Uh problem, they couldn't the service men are unable to sue the federal government for negligence, even though the government was negligent. Yeah and using this product But that that's just one of the substances and then Then there was um the gulf war syndrome That took place and that was a variety of substances the including the The burning of waste material burning and they would put their garbage into these big pits and burn it and And would that include like chemical garbage and and excess stuff that got burned and yeah anything Yeah anything would go into it and and uh in fact President biden refers to his son bo biden as being injured by war in the gulf war syndrome and by in the gulf war and He's been criticized that well son was not shot. Yeah, but his son was exposed To these chemical toxins and did develop brain cancer. Wow and unfortunately passed away So president biden was is correct in that And that in that analysis of my opinion Other other sources of neurotoxicity from war include the Shells that are used To fire against tanks to penetrate tank walls These shells are can be made with hardened hardened uranium from the refuse from Nuclear power plants They take the waste And they use it to harden the metal. Yeah for these shells And then shells explode and they leave the the hardened the the radioactive material all around there contaminating The soldiers and anyone who comes upon it later so in addition to that I've had I've worked with veterans from Camp Lejeune and other and other bases where there was contaminated water supply because the federal government Is not subject to OSHA occupational safety and healthy administrative laws so they they they can pollute with abandoned And and unfortunately the federal government does has done that in the past contaminating the water supply For for the service service workers And I've worked on a number of those cases and helped Help those workers Help those veterans get their compensation. And now the government though has now opened up the The compensation window. So now many. Okay, that's Are able to get compensation for these injuries. What kinds of things were in the water supply? Was it multiple chemicals or solvents? Okay Tetra or trifle ethylene. Yep That was I guess used for degreasing. Yes, decreasing aircraft or decreasing Of armaments I think that was the main contaminant in the water supply Wow Then just to round out the cases And then then I've worked on a case of a veteran who was tasked with cleaning out the fuel tanks of jet planes And he the government did not give him adequate respiratory equipment and he would he would go into these chambers and Come out and pass out director He didn't he hadn't had it before Yeah, the exposures and afterwards he he did Well, he as I was saying he was acquitted And and he was judged temporarily insane and he spent many years in a psychiatric hospital And then actually he recently contacted me and he's out of the hospital and he's Trying he's trying to resume his life now So And it was horrible because he killed a family member. Oh, wow Well, it just goes to show I think the moral here is that these chemicals in our environment have such a profound effect on our health And in the case of what you witnessed they have a profound effect on personality on mental acuity on cognition On even memory because I bet there's some cases where Many of these people under certain influence of chemicals can hardly remember You know what they even did So it's it's really profound and like I said, I think our Awareness around it is important because as medical doctor, you know, we want to help patients clear this from their system get out of exposures I always say kind of at the beginning you talked about breathing clean air and I always say clean air Clean water clean food and really it's up to us to make sure our government isn't going to protect us Unfortunately, they just don't have the bandwidth and they're not checking chemicals in synergy And they're not really again doing due diligence for a lot of these things are being put into the environment as I'm sure you can tell So it's up to us. It's up to us Um, what in all of your years of experience has been the most profound like like if you were to talk to our listeners that are Whether they're patients or people that are just living in this environment What would be your big takeaway for everyone listening? Uh, well what I would say I would say a couple things one is It it takes a while for the medical establishment to to understand the effects of toxic substances and When I started out in my practice There was exceedingly few doctors who had any knowledge of this or any willingness to to study it and nowadays yes, there are Doctors like you and and a handful of others that do have this understanding so if if a listener Thinks that they have a toxic chemical problem And they go and they're seeking out medical help I do urge them Does he get out doctors that specialize in this area? Otherwise you're going to get blank stares you're going to get Because the medical doctors don't they don't know they don't understand It's not in there. There's not really paid in a sense to to understand this Well, I don't know The training is just and I'm 20 years old training. There's no training there really isn't When I when I was when I was at Mount Sinai school in medicine What what I learned was The average medical doctor had four four hours of training In environmental or occupational medicine and I hope it's changed since Maybe a little more maybe eight or 12 but not much Yeah, yeah, it really is and everything that I've learned about this kind of medicine has been mostly post graduate So it is true. You have to really understand and although more and more I mean part of my passion and being here with you is educating We have a lot of practitioners who listen to so the more Doctors that can get curious and start to say well, what if even if they don't know everything about it If they can just see a patient's symptoms and for me I'd love to hear your thoughts on this but a history is everything because if I say Oh at this point either in a new environment and new house and new Exposure and that change the behavior or symptom dramatically from that time forward That could be involved, right? So you take a great history You can often tell if there's an environmental exposure that could be at the root Yeah, as in fact as my practice in neurotoxicology has evolved over the years I rely more and more on history and and the details it's I If someone is in litigation and they come to see me They spend a day and a half or two days in my office with me and my staff Getting tested and talking about What did what exactly happened? What are the symptoms you have? When did they start? What do they like? Because I find that that gives me more more information Than the tests sometimes I could not agree more most of the times I am a mold expert So I diagnose a lot of diagnose a lot of mold toxicity And I would say 100 of time in the history. I usually know the diagnosis now. That's not science based So well our intuition may be a little bit, but I actually prove it with the test So I actually go back and make sure that we're really dealing with that But my staff jokes about my my percentage of accuracy is almost 100 percent because when you really listen And you're listening to the patient and you put it together you can usually Have a pretty good idea of what is causing or what is contributing to their illness before you even prove it with the testing And I'm sure you do the same just listening I totally agree Um amazing. I am so grateful for you for your time for your work in the world Um, I'm assuming people can find you at your website neurotox.com and E-u-r-o-t-o-x.com. We'll leave that link Is there any anything else you'd like to share with our audience or anywhere else that they can find you or get more information? Oh, they could pick up my book neurotoxicity guidebook Which is available on amazon And I wrote this book at the beginning of my career But it's when I look back and read it it still rings true Yeah, so these things do is the neurotoxicity guidebook. We will link to that I'm going to get myself a copy So thank you. Thank you again for the work you do in the world. Thank you for um, because this is hard work and and from the Experience you've shared with us. These are not easy cases like you've dealt with some really tough subjects But I'm grateful there's people out there like you doing this work And I'm grateful for you who's doing Even the work of treating all these all these patients who who have no nowhere else to go really And who find help with your services Thank you. Well, please go out and buy a copy of uh, dr Singer's book and we'll link to that and thanks again for being on the show You're welcome. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of resiliency radio I hope you enjoyed the interview with dr. Singer as much as I did Stay tuned for future episodes. We release a new episode every week. You can watch us on youtube You can listen on itunes stitcher spotify or wherever you listen to podcast And please do stop by lever review. It helps us reach more people Join us again next week for another guest if you want more information for transcripts downloads You can go to jill carnehan.com for products and services go to dr. Jill health dot com and I hope to see you again next week