 Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. You did get all the consonants in there in a different order, but close enough I'm laughing because it's such it's such a mouthful VML Y and R we get it. We need a few vowels I only have two letters to my name You know, I know this has been the start of many many conversations on Friday Can you give us give us a little light right now for you? Yo, what are you doing? What are you guys doing? Yeah, you're right. We had a Friday was just one of many Conversations forums meetings that we've had over the last week and you know, we kind of Week week and a half ago really started with a whole set of you know actions that that we needed that were different than what we were doing and went through all those and then Began to communicate those out get feedback on them and Friday for me personally you know, well first of all it was it was After a series of emails and lots of mini meetings and meetings and conversations in the agency Friday was a moment We said let's all get together. There's about, you know, 1500 of us in the United States in VML wine are probably a few more and we literally had almost everybody on one call together in a conversation and it was It was great. It was great to be together as a VML wine our family and kind of take everything from the outside and just talk As a family and it was format was a lot of me just saying what was on my mind and how I felt personally what I'm learning as a Person as a CEO of the agency and the focus was in that particular meeting was on ourselves and what we can do Here and I think You know, it was it was a chance. It's a really good family. We've been together a long time even though there's there's a course of new people but I felt really really comfortable saying what I think and and not being Not reading a corporate statement that That you'd expect just denouncing racism or you know, it was it was much more How how we're feeling and how not how we're feeling how I'm feeling and then the chance to get a lot of reactions Which I've gotten over through the weekend and a lot of questions and emails and comments and ideas and debate. That's for sure Yeah Perhaps the echo that's coming out What what kind of kind I can you give us a little bit more John Yeah, no, that's good question so so all kinds of feedback and I'm still going through it I mean, there's there's hundreds of pieces of feedback, which is great Sometimes I find that as one thing I'm learning is one piece of feedback if you let it cancels another piece of feedback and the what you could you could You could let those cancel one other or you could take those two pieces of feedback together and make something different with it but specifically You know, you just take it from from lots of different angles. There's there's lots. I'm not trying to be brief You know, we talked about letting Giving people some grace on what they when when somebody is trying to make progress and improve themselves and they say a Word choice that's in flux and let's give each other some grace on that particular If somebody's trying and the intent is there let's together work for the grace. I mean black white or any other race You know, you get feedback that says I hear what you're saying, but I never want to hear the word Colorblind from somebody even if it's accidental, which I totally understand And I was an example of a word that's getting misused or even the hashtag black lives matter Which you know came under a lot of criticism and how you use it when you use it If you're black if you're white last week and people were confused and we're asking for grace on that confusion some people would say I hear what you're saying John, but I don't want that kind of grace for someone that somebody's learned somebody might say I completely agree with that and here's what I can do to do it You know, the biggest collection of feedback is what how are we going to change how we hire promote retain? Our black community and that was the that was the fuss any common denominator It's it's actions related to that questions related to that or people committing To that or things as specific as hey, I know this person. I want to hire them now Yes, you know, so it was it was it was it was all over the place all positive even in the constructive criticism right And what do other holding companies need to do right now? Are Real Well a couple things there, so do we need to do things eating? Yeah, we I am Maybe maybe my epic but a billion percent focused on VML wine are and VML wine are within WPP So those two channels of feedback and impact is where I have the ability to make the most change So I haven't thought too much about other holding companies. I do see you know, I am a believer in Focusing on yourself and what you can do rather than Communicating to the world what you're going to do or and I do see some holding companies some agencies focused on communicating to the world how You know, how they think and we haven't done a lot of that's been more on what what can we do internally and it's There's a raft of things that we need to do to me The phrase none of it matters is is not the treasure But none of it matters unless we're changing how we hire and how we well Not just how we hire how the profile of our company looks in terms of a more diverse company when we we have to be and we We're just what I think we have progress or just when I think one city's Statistically better than another in the aggregate. It's just woefully short and that that short on that voice and that's That's that's by the way, not just black voice. That is lots of voices diversity and that I say that Without saying we're devoid of that voice. It's just it's just Short of where we need to be so I don't know what other holding companies need to do I know we need to you know to be a give you a specific example of lots of them, but you know, they're there needs to be more KPIs or performance indicators of anybody in leadership who's making decisions To have this in their leaderships that we don't have that We just have an expectation that you will do that and and it's not a KPI the other thing I think we have a really strong we call it the fearless champions, but Diversity equity inclusion team. It's 90 people big But I find it a touch disconnected from the people who are making hires and and it too wonderful things going on hiring and De and I the two don't touch as closely as they could if I'm being candid, but that's not a lack of Intent or good people. It's It's it's life moving on without stopping yourself to really think are you doing the right things the good things? Right and I appreciate it strategy And what do we need to do with that leadership and what do we need to do with hiring? What's your kind of response to to you know, how he's spoken up in the time added at the agency and what it really means to to connect and have Black voices and diverse voices at the table in the C-suite Yeah, you got a little cut off. Sorry about that. Is it did you say you talk about Yusuf's article today? Yes Yeah, I thought that's what you meant Yeah, I completely agree with him first of all Yusuf is is wonderful whenever he Wants to make an impactful point. He he makes it very personal. He will never just give you Generic thought it always come and and I guess who would well I see a lot of generic thought out there I think what Yusuf does really well is he always brings it a hundred percent from personal reflection And there's no doubt about that when you read or listen to Yusuf and I appreciate that Because it gives you a sense of where he's coming from on that even in a short article like the one on on Ed We and to answer your second question, I completely agree with him I think one of his biggest points as I take it to read it Is Presence is critical presence of black voices in agencies not just but it's not just presence It is power and it's one thing. I think a lot of people will be chasing numbers and statistics just like I think a lot of the agencies have probably done with with gender and with and with this topic before I think that will be we'll be selling ourselves short if we're if people are trying to If they're honest themselves checkboxes and things like that it's it's it has to be in your heart to not only have the right Amount of diversity but diversity with impact the ability to shape the work to make the hires to make decisions about the agency Yusuf's in a position to do that. But as he would tell you in our agency He's one of very few In that position and that's that's what has to change and just being really candid with you Yeah Is this a problem that you're seeing across the locations that we have offices in London So how low as the CEO? Is there a diversity? Lack of diversity in Across agencies perhaps that we are all awakening to that we are all reckoning Sorry, I'm hoping I'm hoping you can hear me. Okay Yes and no I think I think as an agency leader in a company It's relatively big especially after we merged together VML wine are there's 7,000 people around the world and you can You can look at the company makeup and you can sort of rock yourself to sleep that is diverse because it's diverse in terms of Chinese Latin American, you know Hispanic White black men women Every nationality in between it's a it's so so on one level One of my favorite things about working at VML wine are or an agency that's global is the diversity in the voice a hundred percent true that Perspective that I've gotten from having every country involved in the voice and the decisions and their leadership on that level Absolutely, it's it's it's it's wonderful and it's been one of the my favorite things of the career one of my favorite things about working here On another level when you double click into that the diversity within any one country as it relates to that Country's makeup is where we would fall, you know shorter than I would want it to be far shorter than I'd want to be and that's when you start to speak to Mix of black community voices in VML wine are in North America and you could even Start to think it's right because some of our cities are way more advanced within the company but it's it's kind of depends on how you choose to look at it and I don't I I feel like I Don't want to to sort of get take Just take the overall global diversity of international diversity and make that a proxy for diversity within a country where we have to Change dramatically and that's not just true for America. That's true and and how we are and in Brazil, you know, that's how true we are in South Africa There's there's diversity within each country that we need to look at even if the overall diversity of the company is international right Countries and campaigns, I guess, you know, I wonder how you're looking at your communication that you have externally With those clients in terms of diversity. Do you expect to see or the already happy? or Speaking just from personal Observation over not just the last week, but you know through time, but especially the last couple weeks. I found The you know clients and brands are working with our first. I think as they should be focused on the decision-making and the and their own diversity and And expecting us to be progressive in that change and to progressive in how we think about that and that again, that's not just Didn't just start last week And I didn't just start with George Floyd. That's that's been I think a good press by most of our clients on themselves For for some time, which I think is good. Obviously intensified And but it's been more of a focus on themselves and their their conversations was about more about how What's the appropriate response for them when they want to be authentic? They want to be true But maybe sometimes they don't have as much truth that they that they want to represent and how do how to do that? It's been more of that and then the second thing has been Putting the pressure on us to make sure the teams that are working on their business are diverse and and representative That's a pressure that we welcome Hopefully we have enough pressure on ourselves Before that pressure comes from a client partner, but You know in in we haven't found ourselves in Diometric opposition of any of our client partners I think the reason a client and agents here together if they've they found some success and some Some similarity together, but in that similarity You can find some comfort and you have to you have to push push yourself. So Right fine collaboration so discomfort and the kind of Slow long journey Of progress. I I want to leave you with the last question of I know you're still sifting through feedback and you know thinking about what to do But what can you kind of you know to our ad weak community? Commit to in for the for the rest of the year going forward in terms of dealing with David for the future future Yeah, I mean, I think I think my Personal commitments are are all you know internal and I'm happy to commit to the to the ad weak community I mean my my personal Passion and commitment to this to be specific And I but I hope I hope those commitments are known and first known internally and and known by the people who know me And know I think us as a company but As it ever specifically answer your question, you know, we're we we had lots of programming and awareness and narratives and forums that happen Happen internally. I'm very pleased with that But it's the commitment that I want to focus most on is is how we hire and who makes those hires end it to Dramatically change the way we think about that and not to get not to get trapped in feeling like Things are changing just because we're creating awareness and education I don't I want to do those things Uh, and we will do those things and they are critically important I think the trap we can fall ourselves into we can fall into not not just me but one could fall into is Mistaking those things For the real thing which is at the end of the day is your company look differently than needs to and that My commitment is to focus on on the ladder and The other commitment is to open up the voices that have the discussion about how we're going to do that because You know in a lot of agencies You've got the people sitting around making those decisions or having those ideas are the predominantly white executive teams of an agency sadly and I'm speaking generally there's massive differences between agencies And a lot of agencies have that and then they have a diversity and equity and inclusion team Those those things being completely separate It's just it's that's that will be an endless cycle of of where we've got ourselves so far And I think some of the biggest actions that we've discussed in the last week have come because Somebody who's not It currently in that leadership team or even in the de and I part of the organization. It's just somebody with a voice Comes forward and says here's an idea. I'd like to do we're gonna we're gonna close vml ynr on on juneteenth um week from friday and And celebrate that as a as a day of coping that was not an idea That we've it's something we've never done before and frankly I never would have thought of Whether that's sad or not if I would have thought it or not the truth is I probably wouldn't have thought of it If I'm being honest with myself um A black man in an organization said I think it's important we have a day of coping and what if we did that on juneteenth and Before it even becomes a success or something we do well or not well here in this agency It's already been successful because now 100 of the agency knows what that day even is. I can guarantee you a lot of people the the Sad sad fact that there are very few people including myself knew much about that particular day as much as they should um Is a change but we could we could sit here and not do it Because we didn't know what it was or because it's just one tack one tactic one thing to do Or we can lean into it and do it and do it the right way and I'm really You know, it's one of a hundred things, but it's just a good example of something that wouldn't have existed If we hadn't up up the voice to what we need to do Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to thank our audience Um, I want to thank the the folks that let us know about our technical issues We do apologize for that and hope it got remedied uh during this conversation And I absolutely want to leave on john global CEO And are for your time Thanks, kia. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And next week. We're continuing the abbey together series We are going to be joined by dave newway From ibm wants a media and weather to talk about the future of brand trust So we hope that you'll tune in Next Tuesday and in the meantime if you would like unlimited access to our content conversations and resources You can grab a adweek pro subscription at adweek.com slash offer. My name is coim I hope your conversations at work and at home continue in a peaceful productive way. Thanks so much