 Hello and welcome to the new season of the Coaching Manual podcast hosted by me, Danny Mills. Today I'm joined by former US international Jermaine Jones. Jermaine made over 400 appearances as a professional in a career that spanned 18 years, playing for some of the top Bundesliga clubs including Bayer Leverkusen and Schalke. Jermaine featured in the USA's 2014 World Cup campaign in Brazil where they reached the round of 16. He also enjoyed a loan spell at Brackburn Rovers in the Premier League in 2010-11 under Steve Keane. Jermaine is now co-founder of Defined Sports and Entertainment Group who manage sports stars and entertainers and is also breaking into the world of coaching himself. In this episode we'll be talking about Jermaine's rise through the German Soccer Academy system and the coaches that influence his career. Scoring in a World Cup and the current state of soccer in the USA. So Jermaine, thanks very much for doing this. This is the first podcast we've done remotely. You are several thousand miles away across the pond. I'm here, the home of football in the UK. But if you can just start by, you're the first ex-player that we've had that has been brought up outside the UK system, outside the English soccer system. So what was it like for you? I think being born in Germany, growing up in Chicago. What was your football soccer experience like as a young kid? I would say it was pretty good. So growing up in Germany, it's kind of the same like in England. It's the number one sport. Everybody's really focused on that and concentrated. So but I think the first years I just enjoyed the play the game. I loved it later on the street with my friends and then moved to different cities in America, but most of the time I stayed in Mississippi and then got back in the age of six, seven and then my parents got split and I stayed with my mom and fell completely in love in the game and sticked with it and went through all the youth academies and systems in Germany through I made it professional. And what was it like? How does it compare? Obviously you've played all over Europe effectively or some big countries in Europe and you've seen an awful lot of football often the German system was always revered as one of the best in the world and what they've done in recent years like the last World Cup didn't quite work out. What was the major difference would you say between that and the English system that you experienced as well? I think in the time where I played in England for Blackburn, I would say that the difference was more physical. It's more physical. The referees are not giving you every foul. I would say the difference to Germany or Spain, I would say the German league is more tactical and maybe more running but not like real physical. So you get a lot of fouls and the referee calls a lot of fouls. In England it's complete opposite. It's more physical, it's more up and down and good tackles and all kind of stuff. I think that's the difference but I think over the years now you can see that the English football is in general getting better in that case and making steps forward. And a lot of people going about the facilities in Germany were always second to none even when you were coming through as a young child, which is quite a long time ago now, with the facilities still extremely good at that time and having an awful lot of good quality coaches coming through. Oh yeah, I think there was a number one that the German soccer culture wanted. They always put a lot of money into the academies and the facilities and trying to get the best coaches over to improve themselves. I think this is why you can see that the national team of Germany is always one of the top three in producing young good German players and they come most of the time through their own academies and that shows that their focus is really on producing their own players and then see where the goal goes at the end. But I think most of them like Leipzig, Huffenheim, then who you have elsewhere, you have like yeah and then you see then the top clubs come, Man City, Paris and everyone and take them take the players then and bring them over to England. Do you think that's still one of the biggest differences between England and I suppose Germany especially that the German clubs although are very very good they still rely on producing their own talent coming through the system whereas you've just mentioned a lot of the top English clubs now just go out and buy it ready made because of the money in the Premier League. Yeah that's good, it can be the difference but then you see like over the years now Bayern Munich is I think is one of the stable's biggest club in the world and they don't spend money if they don't have it in them. A lot of other teams they spend money and they relate on the owners and if the owner steps away the clubs can be in big trouble in them. I think that's something I really like on Germany that they're focused on reproducing their own players and see where it goes of course Bayern Munich is still one of the tops and they're going out and buying but they're buying more of the players in the league so there's the C players playing good in Dortmund and they're buying away from Dortmund but like Man City, Man United or Liverpool. I think don't get me wrong that I like to watch the Premier League and I like the game how it is in them but in general I think over the years I think that it would be a better way definitely to produce your own players especially if you have them. And Germany obviously have a very incredible success record of doing that, producing their own players and also they seem to have or most of the top clubs seem to have a better connection with the fans. Is that still down to the fact that the majority of German clubs I know there's one or two exceptions now the majority of German clubs are still alone by the fans effectively and that keeps prices down and that keeps people more interested in the game. Yeah it's just what I said before is that their focus is being in the community, having the fans being there you know like I remember playing in Schalke is like you have sometimes you have over 300, 400 people come just to watch training if some big games against Dortmund or something you know it's like just the people that live the life and they put everything into the club and it doesn't matter who is the owner or something you know people stick to it. But if you see it I live in Manchester so I know how the support is for Manchester United or Manchester City is the same you know people maybe see it a little bit different with a different outcome but still I think at the end it's the love of the game and the people in Manchester that were red or blue for their life so. So growing up as a young child playing soccer, football you know whichever I'm not sure what you call it now haven't been in Europe and in the States but obviously were there any particular coaches that stood out for you that guided you on the path to I suppose you know having a fantastic career? Of course yeah I had a couple coaches who guided my way and I'm still in touch with them and I'm real thankful and you know sometimes it's like especially if you're a younger player you lose track sometimes and then it's good to have coaches who trust in you and believe in you and give you still the chance to come back or still play the game and of course I have a couple guys who are still in touch and I'm really thankful. So obviously moving on you got started to play professional you moved into the professional game Eintracht Frankfurt I think was your first club you were there for what nearly five years what those experiences like? In the first point I think I was not really realizing what will come I just played and then I got the call that I would play with the professional ones and when I played then I just I just went in and enjoyed it and then it was like a roller coaster you know it's like up and downs in in in a career but yeah it was easy my friends came to the stadiums my family were there so I just lived a dream of that what I wanted in them so it it was it was easy to step into it why you're a young player you don't have that mindset that you think about everything but yeah it was and it was easy why I had my family around and then what was it like to earn promotion for Bundesliga so you've just said you know it was your it was your home city your home club was it extra special to make that into into the the top league in Germany? Well yeah the year when I came and made it into professional to the first team we went down so we had to play second league and then in a young age to help the team and the club to come back in the first league was special with that special with that that was a real special game how we finished the game and made it an up to to the first league was special in them in and of course what I said before growing up in in Germany growing up in Frankfurt so a lot of guys who stand behind the goal and supporting the this club I knew them from from my private life they were good friends and now I I wear the jersey and have the the chance to help this club to come back up in to the first league what's on what's a special day definitely. I think you you missed the German final didn't you against Bayern Munich in 05-6 yeah which obviously must have been it's tough you know to miss any games miss a big game like that just how good was that Bayern Munich team you know at the time when you look at the players that they had obviously Kahn, Lucio, Balak, Hargreaves, Roberto was that a real special team at the time oh yeah but Bayern is always a special team they're always knew how they can get players from from different countries or back in the days they're more when in the league and they got players from their own league in them but in this time of course there was it was an unbelievable and how do you think they've done that Jermaine because they don't pay as well as Barcelona, Real Madrid as a lot of even half the Premier League sides now how do they still manage to attract world-class players and keep them at that football club when so many players now seem to move for money all the time. It's it's just how they represent themselves and you see it they have like the old old guys with Uli Hoeneß with Dominique now Salihamicic just all people who played for this club and everyone puts the club first so it doesn't it's not the money it's like they tell you you can you can be a part of a history if everything goes good and um and this is of course that don't get me wrong they pay you good money to to play there too but um at the end it's it's more um what they're representing in that's in that's the city by Munich in Bayern is or in Bayern Munich with the with the guys the older guys they're standing really behind it and they don't they don't care what name you are so if you don't fit into this whole system yeah they know they will not get you you know and um and and this shows them the the quality how they did it the years they're normally I think they went out two times or three times in the like the last three years to to buy guys in and they forgot to see what's going on in the league so Dortmund got bigger when club was there and they and they started winning and winning championship so and and then after this they did what they did always going to Dortmund taking Lewandowski going to other teams taking Götzef on Dortmund and hurting teams in the league just so they have to rebuild and and and them get stronger so that's how how they normally did it and that that's how they they get their players yeah and they get so strong that they can compete in Champions League and everywhere you obviously played did very very well uh Frankfurt and that earned you a move to to Schalke I think in 2007 and again you played was was that a huge step up you know some of the players that you played with in that team were world class was it a huge step up from from some of the teammates you played with at Frankfurt um yeah it was definitely was a step up we this is why I wanted to go there you were every season normally in Champions League and um and then the year when I came to Schalke there was um uh I think Manuel and Neuer came up and a year or half season before then Berziel came up then Raketech came then we had Jefferson Pfaffa and Huntala definitely it was uh it was a Rafinha it was a good team yeah definitely and you played you played holding midfield didn't you mostly in that team was it was it then was it a definitive defined role that you would just sit in front of the back four and you would play that defensive role was that sort of not invented in Germany because we had players like David Batty that had done it um obviously in England and players at Manchester United but was that a definite system that they they like to employ in Germany that's that sitting player to protect the back four um it was not really we had we had always two six so we had two holding midfielders and and I was more the the guy who was allowed to go box to box and then we had another guy who was sitting more and um but yeah you can see it like most of the time now and in most clubs there is always one guy who sits and holds that position and in there is a clean passer and um tries to control the game from there and that's that's most important like when you see the football now if you you can if you have a good a good guy in front of the six you can control the whole game from that from that position back in the days it was more like the number 10 when I look back it was more like the guy who controlled the game and you had to take him out of the game but now is it more than the six or eight who control the game and so and um yeah that I love this position especially being in control of the game so you can dictate where where everything goes in in defense in offense and um yeah um I I wish I can play it still you played with arguably who is now recognises one of the world's greatest ever goalkeepers um in Manuel Neuer but obviously he's been recognised for his ability to play outfield again that didn't quite go so well in in the World Cup where he's up the pitch and tried a little turn didn't quite come off but he's been credited with changing the face of goalkeeping almost we know that the sweeper keeper role was he doing that in the early days or is that something that he developed us as he went through his career um you know with Manuel Neuer is the difference that Manuel is a guy who really don't care what people think about him you know so when he came when he started playing or I met him in Schalke when he was young so his his best friend is his goalkeeper coach and um and the goalkeeper coach was the second goalkeeper in a second team of Schalke and um and you always saw like after trainings they were coming together they were doing stuff they were trying stuff out and and Manuel was from day one he was like he he don't care he went out he's trying to dribble dribble people shoot and tries to shoot from far for far back like when he had missed like small field goals and stuff and um you definitely can see that he had the the quality not just with his feet he had his quality too in in in general in the goal you know but he's in Germany you say like the goalkeepers are a little bit like crazy you said in England too goalkeepers are all crazy yeah they're all nuts so he's he's definitely not he's definitely not he's just if you see him amazing human being but if it goes to the game he he don't care he wants to win and and I remember there was situations where he was still young and we had a an older age back four and he went nuts on them that everybody's turning around like and like my guy you have to chill out a little bit you know but but he really don't care you play with another amazing player I guess he was pretty good at the time uh in even racket itch obviously he's gone on to be sensational Barcelona Croatia obviously almost winning the world cup was he as good then and did he really stand out with special technical ability that we see now or or was he a slow burner and took time to come through I think for for even the biggest the biggest step forward was when he left and he went to Sevilla I think that made him complete a different player but don't get me wrong he played already amazing when he was in Schalke but then definitely he stepped it up from Sevilla and then to Barcelona it was it was it was crazy to see yeah but it's the same with with Özil you know why in the time when they're both were in Schalke they were always fighting about the number 10 and who gets the 10 who can play the 10 and and then Özil left to Werder Bremen he he took off from Werder Bremen went to Real Madrid and then from there's a own story you know it's kind of the same with racket itch in them but both both amazing players yeah what do you think of Özil now because he divides opinion in the Premier League undoubted ability well-cut winner the way that he played at Real Madrid I think more assistant than any other player in Europe when he was there incredible ability but he doesn't he has a almost a language uh to simplify a lazy looking style at times and he gets an awful lot of criticism in the Premier League for that is that unjust do you think yeah yeah no he's Özil is the number 10 100% number 10 he's lazy without the ball but amazing with the ball so that's how you get it like the 10s you have to have somebody who's making a dirty work for him so maybe in England is it more a risk to have a player like this why you have a lot of guys on the on the sixth position they're nuts in England so they take guys out like him and um but if you see if everyone is honest like if he if he's on his game he he's a game changer so in in I always say number 10s like they're kind of like Divas so you have to you have to see that um that did you keep him in a good mood and um and try to to help him that he's just a guy on the field and and I think if you do that uh he shows you this is why he he won the World Cup and and he played for Real Madrid he played for big-time clubs in them and he would continue to to show it with Arsenal you're listening to the coaching manual podcast hosted by me Danny Mills you played in the Champions League unfortunately knocked out to Barcelona in the quarter finals um in the Camp Nou I played against them several years before that when they're exceptional what are your memories of of that game playing against that incredible um Rycard side um I remember I played I think I played we played with three strikers you know because all I remember when I played there is not touching the ball and chasing around after it and not getting near anybody because they were just so technically far superior to what we were no to be honest we played we played pretty good and we I think we lost to one we had him on an edge to to win but then I said we were three no down at halftime I didn't touch the ball ah no no we were we were good we we were not we we we will we will fight and we say this we we fight it a lot the first half and then second half we were in the game and then but yeah you said they had so much quality that that you have to be careful with every player so in in um they're using what they get one chance to score so that that's why I knock out and and then in 2011 uh you came to Blackburn Rovers I think Steve Keane was the manager at the time how did that come about the a move to Blackburn I don't even I don't know to be honest I don't know I was I was I wasn't a fighting shiker and then my agent called me like two days later and he said there's a there's a guy coming from India he's like a owner of chicken wings or something yeah and he wants to change something with Blackburn and and they won the they won the championship over there and everything and I'm like you know what I just want to play the next six months and then I look what's coming next and then that he told me like yeah Blackburn Rovers let's go and I said okay let's sign it I want to play I don't care I just want to play in and then I fly to this was the time and I went to Manchester and then I stayed in Manchester and I was thinking okay it's close to Manchester and but then we're driving out to the middle of nowhere and I was like okay but um to be honest it was an amazing time I really enjoyed it and with Steve Keane a coach who I laughed a lot and um what was what was Steve Keane because he was a surprise appointment at Blackburn when he got the job you know he had a very very good reputation as a as a coach but as a number three or four coach or working with the younger players he was suddenly thrown into the limelight you know as the as the number one guy what was he like I'm assuming he was a very very good coach but what was he like around the players how did he deal with with some of the big names in your side um he was around the guys he was pretty cool he was he he always you knew what he wants to do he had his plans and um of course you can discuss if the plans were good the style of play and everything but but um I think with the players we had and everything the situation we got into and um I think he handled it pretty good and um personal as a man I would say that he's an amazing young being so and then the situation I think when we made it against I think the wolves the last game when we stayed in the league with the tiger with them and um he was pretty happy but then I think the next year then he got fired I think there was some some stuff happened with him private and um in uh in um yeah and then I left and I don't know really what happened but we had a good team but I think the tough part is in England just to keep everyone on the same board and um yeah that's I think that's the toughest part in England let's move on to sort of your international career you played some games for the junior levels at Germany I think you played for the under-21s for the for the German side but then you decided to switch allegiances and go and play for the US how did that come about um and was it a difficult decision yeah what it was I played um I started with the U-18 and then U-20 and I went to Argentina for the U-20 World Cup back in the days and after that I came back and played a couple of what it was like a U-21 games or something and then I asked my agent if there's a chance to switch the countries and play for the United States so I felt like I maybe can play already in a younger age for for the first team in America so we reached out and we tried and then we got a signal back that it's not possible why we played already for the U-20 World Cup and there's a rule that you cannot play anymore so I said okay so my focus started being completely on Germany and um so then I made it in with with with Jürgen Klienzmann for the first team and was more in the ranking but then 2006 I broke my shin so that that that whole picture of the World Cup was done then 2008 I focused on going to the Europe and I felt like with Jürgen Lörf I had a good preseason before the in everything but he decided to take Kim Borowski who was another player who better and better Bremen in that time so I went out and then before Asia the agent trip me and him we talked and I told him I said my agent called me and he said that they changed the rule 2010 and it's maybe a chance to switch the countries and if he if he's okay with it or he thinks like I have to stay and and he said no I think you have you have the chance to come play here but of course it's tough we have good players but you guys have to battle for the position and um and I said okay I want to see what the the national team coach of America says and so I had a meeting with Bob Bradley but he was over in Germany to see his son so we sit down we went out for dinner we talked and after we talked I said to him like look I have loved the both countries in in but um if I have the chance and you tell me that I can play I want to come and represent the country so and um he said look if you want to play for us you would appreciate that and we would take you with open arms so I said if a coach tell you that it's an easy way so I went in and from there yeah the history do you think Bob Bradley's style of coaching was more suited to international management because obviously he came to English Premier League and it really just didn't work you know he failed in a in a big big way when he came into the England yeah no I you know it's English soccer and English players or in general they're all different they have a different lifestyle and different mental like seeing the game and everything you know it's it is not easy I'll be honest like when I played in Blackburn there were situations where I was thinking to I was like shaking my head and say there were there's no chance that will happen in Germany no chance if this player will do this and um but in England it's different so in in in many ways and um and I think Bob when he came over to to England he was not ready maybe for for all that and um it's still different if you coach in Norway or Sweden or you coach for the for the American national team where maybe the pressure is not that on like it is in Germany or in England obviously you played in the World Cup is is that the pinnacle of your career are they some of the best moments I mean for me obviously playing in the World Cup it's it's what every boy dreams of doing um that's interested in football yeah no there was missing 2006 missing don't go in 2008 to the World Cup I I knew 2014 um I was in Besiktas Istanbul and the time played there you know I said I just want to focus on this World Cup I don't want to get injured I can't miss this World Cup right that's that's my last maybe and and I want to go there that's in Brazil and amazing soccer country so I want to be in that flight when when we go over with the national team so then going there you know how it is like all this event is the biggest party in the world and everybody's looking millions of people I was I was in Brazil don't worry I spent six weeks in Brazil it was absolutely incredible um and I was and I was partying most nights where you were probably tucked up in bed preparing I tell you the games where we had no games our party too there it is right now we had some good parties in our hotels but um but it's it's it's just it was amazing and then having my kids over there having my my family was just special and then scoring against Portugal you know that you will be a history of American soccer talk talk us talk us through that goal because it was it was a little bit better than average wasn't it yeah you you know that the the funny part was like before the corner that I think somebody taught like the macrospecies somebody came to me and said if you get a good shot or you can you can shoot shoot you know and and I see just the ball comes in it bumps out I think somebody flipped it out and then I see 90s like a little bit far away from me and I'm and I'm trying to take my first step touch around him and then I see just one guy standing in front of me and and I see if I can get the ball around him just in the corner then place it in there like the goalkeeper would have no chance why he sees it too late and then exactly that happened and then yeah emotion go free right well so hopefully we'll we'll get a clip of it and we'll whack it out on our social media site so people can see how good it really was I think you've been very very modest about how how good that goal really was but what is it like to play alongside the likes of Donovan and Dempsey who I suppose were iconic not just in the states but obviously had been successful outside of the US as well and were revered as great players in England as well I think we had like a couple good guys who have been in in in England Scotland around that whole area I think if you look Clint Dempsey what he did with Fullham was was just an amazing coming over there being alone and doing all the stuff there Tim Howard going to Manchester United and then I played with Claudia Rainer obviously at Manchester City who was obviously exceptional for the US but in general I think it's like it's so good to see kids going over especially now the new generation they're all going over they're all playing in Germany or England it's just so good for the for the game in general here to grow in and I say always the main focus cannot be MLS and there's nothing against MLS it's just for me it's like I say main focus has to be national team so if we producing and having good national team players all over the world our soccer will grow but at the end it's like every kid every fan watch the game in in on the TV and this is how you pull players or pull kids to play soccer right so if it's just here in the league the league is not right now in the like Bremer League or Bundesliga so where people really going and watching and it's still like on the edge it's still building and getting better but I think our national team have to have the best players overseas somewhere and that's that's I like it how it how it works right now because the USA national team has always done incredibly well for having I suppose a lot of players that do play in the MLS haven't had too many too many superstars but I think they've always punched above their weight but obviously one special player that you've got at the moment obviously that's coming to the Premier League next season it's Christian Pulisic how do you think he will be able to fit into the Premier League do you think he'll be a successor Chelsea yeah he definitely will be next season he will be super good I'd say that just what he just had to do and this is a normal crawl is like he has to get bigger from sizing but if this is the next that would be the next step that would be easy I think in England you will grow from from yourself from alone from age wise and but soccer wise this kid is special and you can see it just if you train with him and play with him he enjoys just the moment playing with the ball and and this is like what makes him so dangerous he don't care who's watching he don't care who's there he's just out there and he wants to play with the ball he's like if you see him he's like he's 15 or 14 years old like you throw him a ball everywhere he sees a ball he's going and doing stuff and it's it's it's incredible how big a blow is it last year for the USA not to qualify for the World Cup because I think they were missed you know whatever you think you know people don't I think outside America don't associate the USA as a great football nation but they've always had good teams they've always done better than people had thought what is a huge blow to US soccer and sort of to the inspiration of those young kids missing out on the World Cup it was a big blow a real real big blow and well I I saw it coming so in January camp before the World Cup when Bruce Arena took over I'd had a conversation with people and I told him already I said from that what I see right now in the general camp I can tell you guys that we don't go into the World Cup and this is nothing personal like it's just seen the the outcome of the change from Jürgen Kingsman going back to Bruce Arena I know that this is not a good not a good switch and at the end I think if you saw the games then especially against Trinidad and it showed just that that we don't deserve to go you know we don't play the game what we can play and we were just too focused on on individual players try to to push them forward in them and that that was not the country how we always produced our games and how we played in them and this is I think what's the outcome then of course it hurt it hurt the whole country right what I said before if you go into a World Cup in America when I think in Brazil we had I don't want to be completely wrong I think I heard that America was the number one country with support in Brazil in worldwide if you go with the TVs and all the stuff and that shows that the people are really interested and but that's America too that we we need this we need the big stage just what we have the playoffs in every game or in every sport here that you have a big events and in World Cup is the biggest so everyone wants to be on that and now you're missing it a lot of people go on vacation you know and don't care about the the whole whole World Cup and that hurts the country so how do you think Greg Behalt is going to do as national team manager do you think you know is success more more likely for 2022 in in Qatar I don't know I was the whole time before I said that I hope that they get a coach who's not an American coach but seeing him then coming by Greg I think me Greg have a good relationship and I think he's the best American coach we can get sure he showed it with Columbus that he has always the plan and with Columbus he don't have the best players but he always made it possible to come play playoffs in the camp far most of the time so and it shows that he knows what he's doing and now he has a better squad with the national team he can he had a bigger pool where he can pull players in him so I think he he will he will have a good success like he's definitely the best American coach you can get now that you're moving into coaching what's that transition like has it been easy has it been difficult and what have been the challenges for you moving into coaching what was the challenges I think I think the biggest part was in the beginning just to to set up the sessions and then being in being in front of guys and always talking you know where you you you most of the times like for 18 years playing you know the sessions you can run everything through but just to set it up in the right way that you don't have to stand around that you can move straight to the next session and go that's all stuff like learning process in in that I would say like the first couple weeks were like kind of where I needed help but but now it's it's just like experience wise you know taking that what I know from the game what I did they in they out every day take it in and in just prepare yourself in the best way to set it up and are there any particular managers coaches that you still sort of before you set up a session you think back and think oh he did a great session I'll use that one is there one manager or coach that you sort of particularly particularly rely on for certain sessions um there's there's a couple guys where where I look at kind of styles what they did I like Ralph Rannick who's coach now of Red Bulls uh Leipzig um then I like Jurgen Klopp I had a I have a good relationship with Jurgen Jurgen Kleinsmann there's a lot of stuff where you can really look in you know from every coach I had I tried to take pieces out when I sit down and and I make a plan for the next day what's what's coming or what we want to do so the same like with speeches and stuff like that I think every coach you had in 18 years you can you can take pieces out and and use them for your own career as a coach what's been the I put this what's been the one best piece of advice that you've received from one of those great managers that is like you is your go-to reminder of what it's all about um is there one piece of advice or one message that is sort of constantly thinking right I have to deliver this to the players that I'm coaching I think it's I had one coach like his name is Hup Stevens he's a Dutch coach and um when I came back from Blackburn Rovers he was a new coach and and he he called me in his office and he said to me look I know a lot of people talking about you here but um I don't care just go out show me what you have and um and um I know there's there's maybe players with more talent but I know you have hard so show me everything give everything if you if you're the hard worker for this team you can be the engine let the other people be to let them shine but every team needs the engine you know so in the moment he told me that I knew okay I went out and I played with amazing players but I knew I'm just the engine and the other guys get the spotlight but um but it's that was my role and this is sometimes I tell my kids I say look you don't have to be the best player always on the team but it doesn't mean that the best player can always win the game alone so if you if you just the guy in the back and you have to defend that's your part do the best the best thing you can do to finish your part and then let them do their thing and at the end you will win games you know that's how easy it is I think that's come across from most of the people that we've had on the podcast and we've spoken to they've all gone on about standards discipline hard work that probably the most important things for for players but are there any pieces of advice you can offer to young coaches that are maybe just starting out in the game you said that you struggled a little bit how to set up sessions and do that sort of thing is there any particular advice you can offer to young coaches to help them out I think and as a as a young coach if you start I think it's to keep it easy and most of the time then what age you train is I think if if they're younger then just just try to keep the game uh in in quick in quick games that they can play more and not standing around so much so I think that's that's that's the easiest one like what you can give like young coaches don't go in and and and try to set up everything what you're reading why every coach who starts I think you start reading a lot of coaching books and in more in your books and Pep Guardiola and then if you start and you have an U12 I don't think you can make a session from Pep Guardiola you know so you just have to see the real and realize the truth and in this sometimes I just put two goals and let them play and then correct them in situations but then then from age to age higher you can you can start thinking more into tactical sessions and in crosses and passing and all kind of stuff so you you've had a fantastic career you've done a little bit of coaching you also now got a role at um Divine Sports and an entertainment group where are you going to go from here is it going to be national manager of the USA or is it going to be a role alongside or outside of football you know I had always this big dream to open this agency and it was already when I played but um I always wanted to see you find the right fit and and build something build something good around me then especially living here now in LA where you have a big reach of entertainment you have a big reach of sport in general so um it it it made just click when I when I stopped replaying so in um so then I started this that's something what I have I built this up with my with my business partner Troy his name so we built it up and and now we're working on that all right at the end at the end it's my my end goal is be staying in the game it doesn't matter what it is I still make my way for license a license so if if there's an opportunity to to coach I'll definitely think do I would go coaching but I still want to be out there every day on the field not any more on the field like to play but just being around coaching have a difference different outcome on the game and and that's my goal and and then Troy in my my my oldest son will slide in for me when he starts he's 17 when he started 18 19 he's already in the business too he looks a little bit behind the scenes so that he can take over and he he will do then the runs and the stuff with the agency with Troy and I can concentrate on coaching fabulous well thanks very much Jermaine hope it goes very very well uh and hopefully when your USA national manager your agency is running the world uh you'll come back on the podcast yeah I will be there just let me know thanks very much thank you thank you thank you thanks very much to Jermaine for joining us in the latest episode in season two of the 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