 Welcome to Crossroads in Learning. I am your host, Keisha King. We have conversations here that are real and relevant. Today is no different. Thank you for joining us on courageous conversations with Black men. Joining us today are three local wonderful men who are going to share a little bit about their organizations and what they're doing. Our goal here today is to add another tidbit of information to the narrative that's going on about race, systemic racism, and police brutality, and all the like. I will allow them to introduce themselves. We'll start with you, Stephen. How's everybody doing? My name is Stephen Hill. I consider myself new to the island still, but I've been here for about two years working on Magnum PI. I play the role of TC Theodore Calvin, and just having a ball, just living my dream, and happy to be here. Wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to be able to say. You're living your dream. Congratulations. Next we'll hear from Howard. Hi, everyone. First, I'd like to say thank you to Keisha for hosting this wonderful event here. My name is Howard Cunnington. I'm a resident from Dallas, Texas. I've been here in Hawaii for about 14 years now. I retired from the military after 25 years here in the military. I am here representing the most controversial Prince Howard Grand Lodge of Hawaii for intercepted masons here in Hawaii as their president, and I've been a mason for about 26 years now. 26 years is somebody's lifetime, so congratulations, and thank you for that. Lastly, we'll hear from Nate Daniel. Can we call you Nate? You can call me Nate. I hope you do. Now, Daniel is a government name that I only have to put on paper sometimes. My name is Nate Dixon. I am currently employed by the Department of Defense on the air traffic manager over at Kuala Lumpur Airport in Kapa Laek. I like Howard. I retired from the military after 22 years. I've been here on the island for about 17 years now, so this is going to be my retirement location. At the same time, I am a member of Prince Hall and it's jurisdiction, so we have something in common here as well. Wonderful. Well, thank you all so much for being here. As I said earlier, we like to have conversations that are real and relevant. However, this one takes courage. It takes courage to, first of all, it takes courage and a lot of strength just to be an African American male in America where most times you are hated on simply because of the color of your skin and not the content of your character. The fact that you all do it and do it well and have found success, I applaud you. The whole purpose of this show is to honor you for the things that you are currently doing within your organizations. Right now, with all that's happening with race in America, there's a call for our allies to step in and we've heard terms like white privilege. Use your white privilege to help to educate and to support Black people all over. But before we can ask for anyone else to help us, in which we do need sometimes help, we want to kind of honor and talk about what we are doing to help ourselves. So actually, Howard, I'd like to start with you and pose that question. What do you see as the role of Black men in helping ourselves defeat systemic racism and racial disparities? And we want to start with someone, Howard, perhaps you and have an open discussion. I think it's an excellent question. I believe the role of the Black man right now is to be able to help to educate not only ourselves and our fellow Black men, but our counterparts as to what it is that we are experiencing and how we experience those things. And we have to be able to have the conversation with our non Blacks because they might say, oh, I grew up in poverty too. But even if you grew up in poverty, your poverty experience probably wasn't the same as mine because every day when you went out the house, you didn't have to worry about if you were going to come home that day. You know what I'm saying? If you were going to get stopped on the side of the road for something that just for hanging out with your fellas or your friends or playing basketball at the park. So there is a difference in a living condition versus an actual social disparity that our African American men are going through. And so our role should be to be able to educate and have like we're doing now, have an open dialogue to be able to speak freely so that they have an understanding of exactly what it feels like when something is done or said or if we get stopped, how does that feel to me when I wasn't doing anything? Yeah, would anyone else like to add to that? What is the role of the Black man in helping ourselves to defeat systemic racism? I think the most important thing is education. You know, we have a tendency to just go by what we were taught in high school in college or whatever. And that's not the true history of this country and us as Black people. So it's incumbent upon us to educate ourselves to the things that the systematic racism that are in place and the reason why those systems are in place. So the most important thing I think that we can do as a Black man is to direct our younger brothers who generally are more interested in us than are in educating themselves on Black history as it stands because I know personally I did not gain knowledge of the true history of Black people until I was in my 40s or 50s because I accepted what was taught to me. I never challenged that. I never dug deeper to find out exactly, you know, what it was or who I am or where I'm from and things of that nature. A lot of that is brought about because of technology. So now we have a lot of things that are available to us that we didn't have several years ago. So, you know, when I was growing up we didn't have computers and we didn't have Google. So we could search things. But right now that the younger people are actually, you know, thirst and for knowledge and all we can do is just support them. Okay. So support and education, Stephen, would you like to add to that? Yeah, I'm going to quote a hermetic philosophy of as above so below and kind of translate that into the microcosm and the macrocosm, right? Okay. And I feel like during times like this, I see a lot of like sweeping gestures. Everyone wants to do something really big. Everyone wants to to effect change on the macro level. But the micro level is just as important. I find that now that I'm going to show that has so many millions of viewers even, I'm still doing the same small work that I was doing before I got on this show. So I think it's just as important to educate in small, very small groups. I think I was thinking back to a woman named Chauncey. I don't remember her last name, but I remember I was a kid and I was lazy and I didn't want to learn. And over the summer she was she was my aunt's best friend, but she was also an educator. And she would come and she taught me she would make me sit down. I wasn't allowed to go outside until she made me she made me pronounce all those words that couldn't pronounce. And she helped me out. And I remember her giving me a a book when I was way too young to read it. I should go back and read it now. But I was reading they came before the Mayflower. And she gave me that like the fourth grade that was way too early to give me that book. I couldn't pronounce most of the words in the book. But I think it's all about it's okay to to do something by talking to just one kid in your neighborhood or on your floor or you know in your class or a family member. I don't think everything has to be a Million Man March level event for us to exact change. Very good point. And I would ask then what is it that you're doing if one person can help affect change with one person? What are you doing to do that yourselves? That's for all of you. Well for me one of the things I've done is I've joined the Boys and Girls Club. I'm the president for the board of the Boys and Girls Club here in Ever Beach. And it was funny that Nate called me and said hey we're looking for someone to sit on this panel to talk about Black Lives Matter. So tomorrow I have the same conversation with three graduating students. Two young men and one female and we'll be asking questions and talking to them about you know these same tough questions you know how are they being impacted by this whole situation around them. I had the opportunity to speak with them a little bit last week just to get to know them and they're very intelligent and one of them is on their way to Navy. The other one has a scholarship to go to I think North Texas or something. But the fact that they live here in Hawaii and they are being you know they don't know what it looks like to be racially disfranchised against you know what I'm saying. They don't know what that looks like. So someone here in Hawaii may have said something that was racially motivated to them and they didn't know it. They didn't know what to do. They just probably thought oh this person said something that I didn't like but it was a racial comment. And so in preparing them and preparing their minds to understand that when they leave here Hawaii this is the this is the place where it's kind of like a sheltered life almost you know because we don't always get hit with the with the the Rodney Kings the Emmett Tillers the Breonna Taylor the George Floyd's over here but we see them. They have an insecurity about going to the mainland and understanding it. It's our responsibility to prepare them to understand how to to insert themselves into that community and not lose themselves. But I want to interrupt you and say you're right we do live somewhat in a bubble. We are aware of what's happening but when you're watching something from a distance and you're not fully experiencing it then you really don't fully understand until you're there. So when you guys mention education does the education that you are providing include what that looks like like do you give them instant and I'm getting ahead of myself in questions but we're going to touch on police brutality just to say does your education really help them if they get pulled over by the police? Are you teaching behaviors? Are you teaching de-escalation of temperament? What does that look like and how are we achieving that goal? Anyone? I was going to say one thing that I have been doing myself is I do therapy and I just want to mention that because I think it's a bit of a stigma attached to it in the black community as opposed as it relates to black men specifically. So me as a black man I want to say that it's amazing. I actually have a brother that I talk to. We meet on Wednesdays and I have a great conversation. Actually Thursdays we have a great conversation and it's just nice to have an older black man to talk to to get things off my chest. So if I could pass that on as an education piece to anybody I would say to seek out therapy and that's okay you know it's not something that should be you should be shamed to do you know just reach out. You touched on something that is at the very core of what we experience in African-American communities is that there must be something wrong that person is touched or special or what have you if they attend therapy but that is not the case. Therapy is a tool that is used by many to help us get through all of the different things that we face. Just watching the violence that's taking place with what's going on with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor as was mentioned is a type of trauma because you're watching this is not a video game Steven no slide to you or shade to you but this is not an acting moment this is not an action movie this is actually someone's life and so when we are watching that it does cause trauma, post-traumatic stress and things of that nature. So therapy is good and I applaud you for going. I think it's important and thank you for sharing that aspect of education. Well quickly just to piggyback on what you said the first time I ever took therapy was I was in acting class you know it was very early on in my career and my acting coach he said you know acting is not therapy and I didn't know what she meant because it felt like therapy to me but it wasn't until I was on my way home one night on the train on the way from downtown uptown in Manhattan and I just started to sob uncontrollably because she had in class helped me uncover feelings that I had for something that I had never dealt with so yes it is trauma we're walking around with trauma that's going on right now in modern day but we also in our DNA we have trauma that we carry of our ancestors you know so you know a lot of this stuff that's going on is just reactivating that you know so we're dealing with our trauma and their trauma so one of the things that I was told by a shaman of sorts here he said that you know I can help the trauma of the my people my ancestors in the past because they weren't in a place where they could deal with it so us being able to jump in and do therapy now is extremely powerful. I love that you're exactly right I want to describe it if I may is being on a boat and you have a big wave that comes up behind the boat right just because a group of people get off the boat doesn't mean the wake isn't going to come and still shake things up and have an effect and that's exactly what it's like for anyone and their ancestors that have been through the challenges but especially black folks and slavery we are still dealing with the wake of it all and as you so appropriately said it is in our DNA so again a way to educate yourself is to seek therapy and talk to someone who is like you mentioned older wiser with more experience and qualified to help and to support in that effort when we talk about yes I mean I want to understand the analogy you just used about the wave in the ship and some people get off but we need to make sure that I mean I think that it's important that you know that we you know if we want to you know overcome this that we stay part of that ship that's being rock you know I'm saying it helps stabilize it because if we if we just get off then we miss a whole lot of things a whole lot of opportunities to put things in our favor does it make sense yes sir I think I was trying to say that just because the slave masters are gone doesn't mean that the effects of slavery are gone just because they've gotten off the boat just because they um they're no longer with us doesn't mean that the problem itself is over no the after effects are still there exactly all of us so we need to stay and fight and and be a part of this is our mission you know right we just distorted another mission that I never even thought of because you know PTSD has been a thing that's brought about because of wars that we started not we started but they started that we were participating in and it's become a part of the new recovery process they never thought about the recovery process for us on 400 years ago but that that that's that uh PTSD that we've got and continue to have based on not just what our ancestors endured but we're enduring at this point in our lives is something that should be a part of that you know we talk you know reparation uh that that should be one because I'll tell you you know for a black man to think about going to a a therapist it's like putting a gun to his head you know telling him to pull the trigger it really ain't gonna happen we deal with whatever internal issues we have internally we don't ask we don't women uh you know sometimes have a little bit more of a latitude so that they could go and and talk to their friends but generally men keep whatever issues they have internally and deal with them we are not taught to express our our feelings and and our concerns or our issues and that's something that we need to work on and when I say uh PTSD that's that's what happened to you because you know unless you're taught to do certain things you're not gonna do it and and like I said we as black men are not taught to go out and spill our feelings and and and uh concerns to someone other than your mother more than likely yeah yeah I hear you anyone want to say anything to that I think I think Nate um Nate as far as the the therapy piece uh the way Stephen put it I mean I don't know if it's a professional therapist but it sounds like you have someone that you talk to right and that could be uh someone that you're very close to someone in your organization that you in that you consider to be a best friend someone that you can just vent these emotions out to to help you uncover these undiscovered feelings that you're harboring about certain things so it doesn't always have to be in a professional setting of the therapy I mean this right here is therapeutic just having a conversation you know what I'm saying yeah absolutely and that's what we've developed over years is our own form of therapy but it's not necessarily the most beneficial therapy you know when you talk to your friends about something you're talking about commonality and they can't think outside the box sometimes you need to go and get and seek that professional help so uh like I said I personally have never been through a to a therapist um and one because of my job and and and you know I'd have to question I mean I answer for that but just the thought of spilling my guts to somebody I didn't know was foreign to me so it's not something that I would look forward to doing so I would I would uh to me not going to get the therapy could be more detrimental to your uh profession you're absolutely that's I'm not going to going and getting it I'm not denying actually I'm accepting that I'm what I'm saying is because I don't is because I am the way that I am whereas if I sought help it could make a difference and I'm I'm using me as the example but I'm just saying black people in general do not go out and seek help they just deal with their anagogy are you willing are you willing to so this is turning into a therapy session right now even i'm i'm gonna let you go ahead and say your point and then we're going to switch gears a little bit go ahead okay well I just wanted to uh to piggyback on something that Howard said about the uh the boat and getting off and whenever we at least whenever I'm having discussions about slavery you know you often hear people uh chime in with what they would have done during slavery or what they wouldn't have done during slavery I wouldn't I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have done you know we don't even think that a lot of them brothers and sisters didn't even there were no paved roads back there you know they were right you know they didn't have shoes you know running was definitely you know you ever just walk on it if I walk on the beach well my 10 to New York feet with with no shoes out and listen so you know um I think I think it's one one of the things I hear people always say is you know I probably would have been one of the slaves to jump off the boat I wouldn't I wouldn't even made it here you know but I just want to say that like you know we are the descendants of survivors of people that didn't jump off the boat we stayed on the boat we stayed on the boat we got here we stayed alive and we kept living we kept going kept living so that DNA that we have is still living and um you know the things that they couldn't do we can do now they couldn't think about some slavery you know but I I mean not slavery they couldn't think about uh uh therapy right but I would imagine that if uh Harry Tubman came and got you and said come on let's go you know that trip would be a hell of a therapy session you know what I mean by the time you get to Philadelphia or wherever she was bringing you um you had a therapy session and when you got there it was an unlearning of whatever it was that you went through you know and that's a lot of what therapy is it's just unlearning what we think about ourselves and looking at what it is under a new light so let's take a venture that and so I would encourage us yeah I would encourage us to um to kind of do some introspection think about those things we have not touched the tip of the iceberg and it's time to go which is why I said this is why I said this is a series two parts and uh we've had some commitment that some of you all will return will add others to the conversation the goal is to begin a dialogue to let people see that it's there are tons of positive black men in the world who are making a positive impact some are um I think you have a military background right Nate yes or no I do right and Howard do you retired yes and then Steven you are definitely representing for the talent in creating military on tv that's what I was going to say I could learn I could learn some of the real deal from these brothers indeed and I think that's the beauty of this entire conversation is that we all learn from each other uh no matter what our race our sexual preference or background or demographic we are we can all learn from each other and hopefully um grow and heal especially now while we have all of these things going on in our country around the world and right here in Hawaii you've been watching crossroads in learning we've been having courageous conversations I want to thank all of you brothers I want to say I honor you and I respect you all for all that you are doing and what you represent you do represent the best of us and I'm looking forward to the great things you'll continue to do I'll see you in two weeks thank you all for coming to the crossroads aloha