 by miles or so and I may be there on the mileage but in any event it bottomed and the allegation is that the chart was an error and that according to the chart it was a substantially above the bottom. The certain damage occurred to its steering apparatus and some of its diving planes but it was on the surface about a half an hour ago and no one was injured there was no leak each so far as we know to its nuclear plant salvage ship was standing by and to assist it moving into port we anticipate no problems but for a time it looked like we might have another nuclear incident on our hands. The result is Mr. President I'm really not up to date on Southeast Asia. What is the story behind the well what was your evaluation yes down I want to ask you to go in the office now I've got you thought I thought you said damn tired you better go home do you know we had started that breakfast but I just didn't know I'm sorry I would love to come in well I I I think it shows two things Mr. President first that they have more power than some credit them with I don't think it's a it's a last gas but action I do think that it represents a maximum effort in the sense of they poured on all of their assets and and my guess is that we will inflict very heavy losses on them both in terms of personnel and material and this will will set them back some but that after they absorb the losses they will remain a substantial force I don't anticipate that that we'll hit them so hard that they'll be knocked out for for extended period or forced to to drop way back in level of effort against us I do think that it is such a well coordinated such an obviously advanced planned operation that it probably relates to to negotiations in some way I would expect that were they successful here they then move forward to more forcefully on the negotiation front and that thinking that they have a stronger position from which to bargain I don't believe they're going to be successful I think that in case on where we're going to have the real military engagement I believe we'll we'll deal them a heavy defeat I think in the other areas it's largely a propaganda effort and publicity effort and I think they'll gain that way I mentioned our people across the country this morning well we'll feel that they're much stronger than they had previously anticipated they were and in that sense I think they gained the question my mind is how to respond to this is there anything we should be doing we're not doing I've talked to the chiefs about some kind of a reciprocal action retaliation for their attack on our embassy or in retaliation for their attack across the country there just isn't anything they have come up with it is worth a damn they talk about an area bombing attack over Hanoi the weather is terrible you can't get in there with with the pinpoint targeting the only way you could bomb it at all at the present time is area bombing I wouldn't recommend that to you under any circumstances they just haven't been able to think of retaliation that means anything my own feeling is that we ought to to depend upon our ability to infect very heavy casualties on them as our proper response and as as the message we give to our people I think it one thing well to do is try to keep Westmoreland in the news I ever twice a day I quite agree you do that I think you I haven't I haven't built it to talk yesterday to our people aren't have that was to make I said one today but I'll make it twice a day you're quite right thank you all to to I don't think they get enough information I think you become sensitive and we all pull in and I meet with them once over two three months yeah you meet with them once a month if there's something big but if you'll remember you see I remember home all day late and I can choose the difference and I think in this campaign here the other crowd is cut to three committees grinding out things their only interest is to find something wrong yeah people look for something wrong unless you've got so much choking them that is happening just back to that Jerry Ford last night I want your evaluation of that I thought it was a disgrace I really thought it was a goddamn disgrace that's why I stepped in at one point I didn't know whether to open up earlier or not I didn't want to reduce your reaction to him because I thought it was very effective but damn when I was annoyed at that I thought it was discourteous and absolutely irresponsible it seemed to me that he was so determined to find something wrong and he had nothing that he could find wrong although there might be much that was wrong we all said that first thing we do it save the fifty-two minutes they didn't respond would respond in light of what we knew now but at that time it didn't and he just so determined to find something that was wrong that he wouldn't even listen to the other things look like to me I thought maybe I was just prejudiced but he started pounding the table I thought he was just came in temperate it was just a disgraceful performance now I do think that when he left he'd cool down some and and I think the unanimous front that he faced and particularly Buzz Wheeler's strong support out that cooled him off and I doubt very much he's gonna make many speeches about this subject they're going to find something anything they can find though that's wrong what do you think our reaction ought to be should it be different from what it was last night we're going into other meetings I thought that I was rather willing to admit the possibility of error all along I kept saying that sure if you ask me now today I change a lot of things I would respond immediately instead of waiting fifty-two minutes I think that I take exactly that track with other meetings except that I wouldn't initiate it and I don't think you're gonna get that kind of partisan criticism in some of these other meetings I'd be surprised if Aaron's for example did that he's not strong enough to do that but but if he does I'd respond exactly the same way we were too strong with Jerry oh no oh no no no no I thought it was frankly I thought it was just right Mr. President I thought when he left he'd cool down some and he found that there wasn't a chink in our armor that he'd been able to break through I would have layered it just been more that's right that's why I didn't want him there Mr. President he's impossible to do you can't argue and he's a bright guy and he's brighter than Jerry for one thing how did you evaluate to Dirksen I don't know I I I concluded that he was just keeping his powder dry and preserving his options he was very anxious to go in with all flags flying all guns blazing until I talked to him a long time the other day at the Security Council luncheon or something he called me one of the old noticed it but I had a long talk with him and on the phone and he wound up he said all right what do you want me to do and I said I just want you to say that the president is reviewing this matter and will give the leaders a report and whatever the nation needs will be supplied and will be supported he said all right so he said something along that line didn't say much yesterday he said a little more but what I thought maybe last night what he was doing I was hoping that you'd have this reaction but I guess it's not justified I was hoping he was just utterly disgusted with Ford's performance and didn't want to go against him and same time didn't want him well Mr. President I thought that for a time but then he remained silent so long initially I thought when Ford was getting angry and his face was contorted with anger I thought Dirksen really was feeling contempt but then it went on and on and on he didn't say a damn word and he could have very easily well yes but what he would be charged with undercutting him and I just thought he couldn't say anything in the displays like your wife tears up those over the maybe so but I thought there were several openings when he could have said well buzz what do you think about this now surely there's something we could have done differently or is it but would it have made any difference this is what he this is the line average ever should have taken sure there's certain things here we must have been able to 52 minutes but suppose you hadn't done it 52 minutes would the end be any different than the cancer courses no there were several openings he had he didn't see them and that's why I felt he was preserving his options and also I I haven't read the the record it's on my desk right now but of yesterday but the newspaper reports weren't particularly good on what he said yesterday it seemed to me Dirksen yeah now one thing about McDonald Bob I thought if we got in deep trouble he is a little better witness I believe than most of them in he better than more yes he is look sharper to me and more modern clearer and cleaner actually I think you got scared hell out of McDonald and get him into this thing and his Navy and his skipper it's his operation in a very real thing that's what I know you're absolutely right and I get him up to it up in his ears and I picture him as Mr. objective and Mr. fire and Mr. so and so Mr. President I knew you were disappointed with the briefery yesterday but I did it purposely if you saw all his metals and you must have Christ he has 14 campaign ribbons and metals there and he has three stars on his shoulders and quite frankly I did it purposely to put him forward instead of me not that I'm trying to get out of the line of fire but I just thought that in this situation those people would be more impressed by a man with a suit on his eyes all right and crime but this morning we'll do it differently I'm sure you get to leave in the more mission and I just there's not anybody in this government that can say as much in his little time as you can I said I quite frankly I've tried to I thought he was just I just didn't think he's up to this morning I thought we'd have buzz do what he did last night and then I'll take the questions okay mr. president one thing you might like buzz first this morning to start with South Vietnam he'll feel very quickly covered two or three minutes the events of the night good tell him Bob and you too you don't ever had trouble but tell him to talk louder from that of the room yes the echo that's right I can't hear what's going on thanks