 Hi Dave. Also. Welcome everyone to the Design Review Board meeting of October 30th, 2023. My name is Erica Zekis and as the chair of the Amherst Design Review Board, I'm calling this meeting to order at 5.01pm. The meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the town of Amherst YouTube channel and minutes are being taken. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing will be posted on the town's online calendar. Board members, I will take roll call and when I say your name, answer affirmatively. Catherine Porter. Here. Lindsey Schnarr. Here. Karen Winter. Here. Erica Zekis. Here. Pat Off. And Pat is not present. All right. Board members. If technical issues arise, we may need to pause temporarily to fix the problem and then continue the meeting. If the discussion needs to pause, it will be noted in the minutes. Please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment. I will see your request and call on you to speak after speaking. Remember to renew yourself. The general public comment item is reserved for public comment regarding items that are not on tonight's agenda. Please be aware, the board will not respond to comments during the general public comment period. Public comment could also be heard at other times during the meeting when determined appropriate. Please indicate that you wish to make a comment. By clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited. If you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate that you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your phone. When called on, please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when you're finished speaking. Residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the design review for a chair. If the speaker does not comply with the guidelines or exceeds their allotted time, participation will be discontinued from the meeting. Tonight's agenda includes the following. We have two applicants. FY 20, 24, 07, Gabe Krause from Gabe's underground to install three signs at various entryways. At 23 to 25 North Pleasant Street. And 20, 24, 08 from the town of Amherst to construct an ADA compliant accessible trail at the former Hickory Bridge health course. We'll then move on to approval of meeting minutes from September 25th and October 6th. General public comment period and other business not anticipated. So we can get started. Thank you. Is somebody from Gabe's underground with us this evening? Yes. And Andrew Hunter just raised her hand. So I'm going to promote her to panelists. Great. And for the public. Pat off has joined us. Hi, Pat. Welcome. All right. Welcome Andrea. Are you here to represent Gabe's underground? Yes. Sorry, my lighting is not good. I'm going to. Get rid of my background. Okay. There we go. Great. Well, Miss Hunter, we're glad to have you. Are you able to do a screen share and share your documents? Or would you prefer that we do that for you? I prefer you do that because I. Actually, I have them, but I think they're. They were sent to everyone. Yes. Yeah. They're part of the record. Yeah. Okay. All right. So we're now we're seeing your application. Page. And then we also have this. Document and this one. Yes. So where would you like to begin? We're going to invite you to just kind of present your proposal to the design review board and then we'll have some conversation. Okay. Basically we need three signs. It looks like four, but there's an awning. The two drawings on the bottom. There's a good representation. There's actually some color in there. The, the two drawings on the bottom. Are the side in the front of the awning. And the drawing at the top is. Going to be the large sign that. We'll be over the. In front of the overhang. That will be lit by. A couple of a few gooseneck lights. And yeah, it's a. That's kind of a low quality representation. At the bottom of the, this particular screen that you're showing. Is the, is called the overhang. And see if you see where it says Hazel's blue lagoon. We're going to replace that with a lightweight material. With our logo. And the, in the upper right hand side of that. That's where it says. That page where it says awning. There'll be something on the side there that faces the camera. And to the right of that is considered the front of the awning. And so we'll have a logo in both of those places. And then in the left hand corner, you can see the old Hazel's. Sign. It's a very small space. It just kind of indicates that that is another entrance. And we're going to replace that sign as well. You mentioned that there's some color that's not represented in these. Yes, that's kind of a low resolution. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, it's just asking you to kind of fill us in on that. Okay. Yes, that, that scan is kind of a low resolution scan. Where you see green is going to be blue. Everything else will be white. Okay. So the word underground is intended to look like it's distressed. And the word games is going to be. It's not going to be distressed like it shows on the screen. If I had my art file, maybe that would have been good. Because I could show you a higher resolution version. So anyways. Does anybody have any questions at this point? Through those, could you, my first question is, could you describe the blue in the absence of my concern is. Readability and my kind of contrast from. Yes. The black and the blue. The blue is going to be high contrast so that it shows up on the black background. Not representative of this green that's there. But the, the blue is probably closest to. It's going to be much lighter. It's going to be something closer to a royal blue. Which is, it's a medium blue and it would show up quite nicely on a black background. Would you say kind of akin to. Sort of like that. Sort of like that color, but lighter. Other DRB members, would you like to share comments or ask questions? Let me know. Thank you. Lindsay. Hi. Well, it's exciting to see that there's something new happening in the space. And I like the idea of the brick kind of against the distressed underground. I agree with Erica that the. Readability of games is. It's very difficult. Given what's shown. So I'm glad to hear that there is a better image than what we might expect. Because given just this image, I would say it's, it's really hard to read. Right. Oh yeah, definitely. But I mean, otherwise I'm, I'm fine with it. I just would encourage whatever that color of blue is to be as. As much of contrast as possible, like almost an electric blue feels really good. But I would agree with Lindsay. I would agree with Lindsay. I agree. It's something that really is going to stand out and kind of be an eye catcher. And help with the clarity. Especially I think given the distressed nature of the underground, having something that's really clean and crisp. As a contrast for the games would be. Would be nice. I agree. That's all I have. Yeah, I would agree with Lindsay. I think I said I'd second that. I think it's a nice idea to also have some text on the side of the awning. So I'm glad to see that that's happening. Cause I think it'll draw people in. Right. Particularly where that location is. You catch, you need to catch every eye you can back in there. If there aren't any other. Well, I'll say first, are there any other comments? And if there aren't, would somebody like to make a motion to approve? I move that we approve the presentation with the suggestions that. Have been made and already agreed upon. Second. Thank you. All those in favor. You say, I raise your hand. I. Great. It's a unanimous. Ms. Hunter. Thank you for presenting your presentation. When do you imagine. The opening. I would like to open some time in November. Exciting. Yes. Well, thank you for presenting this evening and. We'll see you in November. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. You too. All right. That might be a record. Super speedy. That was like five minutes, I think. I was looking at the time. Throughout the whole process. So. That was lovely. All right. So. I know that there are some representatives from the town of Amherst here. I don't know if anybody else needs to be brought in. For the next. Project presentation. I'm not seeing anybody in attendance at all in the audience. So it's just. Us nine panelists on the meeting. So we do have. Jennifer Mullins and David Zomek from the town of Amherst that are going to present. On the proposal. So take it away. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Welcome. Jennifer and Dave, would you like to drive the presentation or would you prefer that I put the documents up? Jennifer, I think. Would you prefer. I do have documents to share. So if you can make me a co-host or however it works on. On your end. I'd be happy to share some. Images. So you should be able to do that, Jen. Without being a co-host. So. If you did it right now, it should work for you. Okay. I usually. Okay. I get it. I'm not usually in this position on the meetings. Okay. So. Perhaps while Jennifer is working on that. I could do a little intro of the project. That would be helpful. Yep. Thanks everybody for having me. I'm Dave Zomek. I'm the assistant town manager. And. I'm going to go ahead and share some images. So you should be able to do that, Jen, without being a co-host. I'm Dave Zomek. I'm the assistant town manager and kind of the overall project manager for the Hickory Ridge redevelopment projects. I'm joined here tonight by Jennifer Mullins, our permanent administrator. And we wanted to give you just a brief overview of what's happening at Hickory. Um, and then talk specifically about. small area off of West Pomeroy Lane that is going to be kind of the welcoming area and the area where most people will come by vehicle, by car. So really quickly, I'm sure you're all familiar with Hickory. It's 150 acres off of West Pomeroy Lane. The town purchased it about two years ago. We are actively developing what I call a comprehensive plan for the entire property. It sounds like a lot of acreage, but when you actually get into it and look at the riverfront land, the vernal pools, the flood plains, the estimated and priority habitat, it really shrinks quite rapidly down to just a few buildable acres. Having said that, the town entered the process to acquire the property with solar already planned for about 26 acres. So there will be two solar fields on the property. The town is managing the company that is developing that solar and we will get what's called a pilot for the pilot payment in lieu of taxes for the solar that is developed on the property. So with that said, we have all the rest of this template, this wonderful, beautiful area to look at and see what we can do with it to benefit the residents of Amherst. So what we want to start with is a trail system. And that trail system has been developed with the planning staff and the conservation staff, and that's what we wanted to talk about tonight. And Jennifer has that trail system up on the screen right now. And specifically, we wanted to talk about two areas. One is on the far left and I don't know if Jennifer can drive the cursor here. That area near sheet eight is going to be a fully accessible loop trail. This is being funded by CPA, Community Preservation Act dollars and a park grant through the state. And so Jennifer, maybe you could circle the clubhouse and the parking lot in the lower central part right here. Yes. This is the parking lot and this is the clubhouse currently. And so that's the area that will remain the main welcoming area for people to visit the site. It'll really be the only parking for the site because we're limited by frontage, zoning and access at other points on the property. The clubhouse will eventually come down. We're seeking funding for that right now. It is it is unusable and was in such terrible shape that we can't use that for other purposes. But we will be developing an accessible trail. People will come in off of West Pomeroy. They'll park in the parking lot. They'll be able to access a large welcoming kiosk at the star right there, the red star. And then they'll proceed to the left or to the west toward Hadley, if you will, all the way down this crushed stone path. If you've ever been to the Conti trail over in Hadley, which is fully accessible, we envision this to be quite similar to that. Along the trail, there will be informational signage guiding people as to what they might see. There'll be benches. Eventually, we hope to have a small pergola or pavilion out on the site. We don't have funding for that yet, but that's somewhere in the future. So this will be about a three-quarter loop trail around the western portion of the property following the Fort River and then making your way back through some old, you can see the old sand traps on the map, and then make your way back eventually after walking, hiking, biking, birdwatching, running, back to the parking area and your vehicle. The other section of the trail, we're calling the north-south connection, and this will go all the way eventually, all the way from the parking lot all the way up to the northeast quadrant of the property, which is up in the right hand corner of your screen. And that will take you eventually with some easements that we're working to secure. That will take visitors or allow visitors from the north to access the property from east Adley Road. So residents of anywhere along east Adley Road, Columbia Drive, points north of east Adley Road, the apartment complexes of Mill Valley, the Brook and Renew, we'll all be able to access that trail and come all the way down, enjoy the assets of the property, go fishing, go for a hike, go for a bike ride, and eventually they'll be able to access the village center over at Pomeroy Village Center where the new roundabout is and get a bite to eat at El Comolito or pick up a gallon of milk at the convenience store or anything else that they might need in the village center they'll be able to do by walking or biking. So most of the things that we'll be adding vertically to the property really are simple kiosks like you would find at any trailhead in Amherst we'll have a as I said the the welcoming kiosk at the beginning and then small signs throughout the property directing people as to you know which way to go or whether they might you know for instance see some wildlife in this particular area or something about the Fort River the geography or the ecology of the site. And so this is a cut sheet from our design packet and you can see kind of standard kiosk format which we've used before I think the most recent thing we brought before the DRB was for the Sweet Alice parking lot over on Bay Road if you've been over there this will be very similar with a welcoming kiosk in the center and then small directional signs on posts throughout the trail and we have a couple of samples of what a structure in the future might look like for folks to get out of the out of the sun or out of the rain or have a small school group meet there or have a picnic under one of those structures. As I said I don't think we have the budget for that right now so that might be added in the future so maybe I'll stop there if Jennifer in my my quick overview if I missed anything please feel free to add. I think there will be some bridges right Dave and some some boardwalk type paths that will span some of the wet areas and and the in here. Thanks for the reminder yes a big part of this project is ecological restoration and there are a number you know a golf course is a golf course and a golf course the goal was to have flat dry open areas for playing the sport so they needed fairways dry fairways and dry greens so part of our work is and you've if you've driven by Hickory you've seen that nature is taking over quite rapidly and it is one of the most unique ecological areas in the town we have over a mile of frontage on both sides of the Fort River so that was one of the the driving forces here to purchase the land is is to preserve the ecology but also to connect people to it because it's basically been a private parcel for 60 plus years so as Jennifer noted we'll be pulling out some of the old culverts which block the flow of water and in their place we'll be adding new bridges for pedestrians and one new bridge for maintenance vehicles to get out onto the property to do periodic mowing or or you know service birdhouses or or do any kind of work out on the property we'll also be sharing the property with the company that will be doing solar so the entire 26 acre solar field will be surrounded by fencing to protect that asset and keep people away from the solar the solar panels as well as the solar batteries so there will be many I think we'll be pulling out seven culverts to allow water to flow more freely to the Fort River and I believe the plan is to reduce the size of the paved area in the parking lot as well right Dave? Eventually yes we will be we'll be shrinking that parking lot it's over a hundred cars now I really don't need that so we've temporarily used some jersey barriers and we'll be using those even even more strategically to kind of limit where people can park you know sometimes parking areas can become kind of nuisances for the police or or or our staff in terms of parking and trash and and nighttime use so we'll be making that parking lot we'll be shrinking the usable space in that parking lot so that you know the police department can swing in there at night and quickly assess that there's nobody there that should shouldn't really be anybody there at night anyway it's a dawn to dusk facility eventually the area around the clubhouse and I'm kind of going a little farther afield here but eventually we may we are likely to look at additional uses of the old clubhouse area there's been a number of things talked about from affordable housing to the possibility of using the site for a south amherst fire station so that will all be covered in the comprehensive plan but in the meantime we want to get the trails going and we have cdbg funding and state funding to get that going thank you thank you so much and you mentioned in your opening the signage would be included and that's something that we often discuss here on the drb i'm wondering if you have any indication or any examples of um the signage that you'll be installing we should have a few more for you honestly um I think we had that cut sheet and I don't know Jennifer if you grabbed any of the the signs from our previous projects say at sweet alice because that those would be the best examples yeah let me see um let me just poke through here and see there the you know the there are so many more I was not involved in that submittal to the drb but I think Rob more I might have brought that yeah when we did the parking lot I just know that the town has put a lot of effort and resources into having a signage language and since this is town property it would be nice to see that extended to here and something that I'm particularly interested in seeing while Jennifer's looking for that I'm wondering if you could just kind of indicate to us where the solar is going or I don't have I don't think I have a cursor but Jennifer yeah so I can't so we have to let's see well I I'm not finding a file marked signage we can certainly you know look up those images and get them to you I have to find my can you still see my screen yes yes okay because I can't hang on one second here we go okay so the question was about the solar and the location is that correct yeah and I believe we're talking about this vicinity is that right Dave oh yes near sheet seven higher open field will be solar and then the big open field right in the middle of the screen I can't see your cursor Jennifer right here can you see it now I can cheat six I know if you go to the to the right of that there's a big open field I'm sorry to to the to the right to the east toward the river go toward the river there's a big right here oh sorry where it says sheet 11 I know you're too far it's right smack dab in the middle oh right here right here there you go thank you oh look at that so those will be the two solar areas near sheet seven and then where the where the circled red is okay great thank you all right I should open it up to DRB members for questions and comments I see Lindsay's hand Lindsay go ahead I hear you start over unmute I just said thank you for presenting this it looks like a lot of thought has gone into it and I love the Conti trail and it's very exciting to see I'm mainly curious about what kind of feedback you're looking for from us in terms of what stage you're at in the approval process and if there's some guidance on kind of the specific scope of of what you'd like for us to respond to the main thing and I realized I was opening we would have some some samples of some of those previous signs we've used the town seal the maroon background of the town flag or seal if you will I'm sure you're all familiar with that the one that hangs in the state house so you're all familiar with that one yeah um so we've used that on our signs for conservation area trailheads and parking areas and um trail signs and we could get you that we could send that to through um Rob Wichila to you um I think the main thing is just kind of getting feedback on on that kind of thing consistency again we're we're we're in a sense we're we're reusing the some of the facilities we we don't have the funding obviously to create new parking areas we're going to reuse the parking area that was for the clubhouse the clubhouse will stay for the time being and what we've tried to do is direct people where we want them to go um with a central kiosk as Jennifer pointed out with that um that star on the on the on the trail map and then along the way there'll be various signs that you know keep people on the loop trail and um inform them about what's happening you know things ecological things what to look for along the fort river birds mammals things of that sort um so I think we probably need to get you a few examples of those before you can give us a little more um direct feedback and I'm happy to we're happy to do that um just to round out that question um yeah that that does make sense and I think as an overview it's pretty clear what your intentions are and um I'm I'm curious if you're also looking for input in terms of ideas for um you know features of of the trail um or if you're really just focused on kind of giving us an overview and looking at signage once that's available um by features what could you be more specific sure so um I mean I love the idea of having signage for the wildlife um to look out for um I'm thinking of another trail um the one that connects Puffers to the Waterfall to the Mill River and there is a storyboard um sequence that's pretty engaging for children and families to walk along and the stories rotate and there's lots of different themed walks that occur with that being um a feature of that of that particular trail if there yeah I think the short answer is we're very open to creative ideas like that we worked with Coles um on that storyboard um I believe her name was Hannah she was the placemaking staff person at Coles for a number of years I believe she's moved on but I worked with the conservation commission to give give them permission to do that storyboard and I hope that will continue I think the we're under a little time pressure to get the trails done we need to get the the two central trails the loop trail to the left or to the west and the the connecting trail up to the apartment complexes we need to have them done by because of the grant deadlines by June 30th 24 so we're we're under some time pressure to get those done so I think and we're also under some financial pressure because these grants were written a year and a half ago and with cost increases we are probably going to need to be pretty frugal about what we can afford in phase one if we call this phase one and then in future phases so I think we're going for the basics at this point we want welcoming kiosks and directional signs so that people don't get lost out there it's it's a big place if you don't know it 150 acres and you're not going to get lost lost but you certainly could end up you know over a bridge you didn't expect to go over or get turned around out there if it's getting dark or something so we want informational kiosks at the beginning with a large trail map and then directional signage along the loop and around the along the north south trail and then I think we'll enhance those as funding becomes available and we get more community involvement so the short answer is yes the longer answer is we might have to do it in phases because I think our funding is tight and our timeline is tight if that makes sense definitely yeah it does it does make sense and thank you for that question Lindsay because I think it gives us some frameworks for conversation and Karen I see your hand but I just want to say like BRB members let's focus on you know all the questions that we need to ask but that our design review is really about the kiosk not so much the layout of the paths and things like that or perhaps about our questions about bridges and and signage and things like that but Karen yeah so this question is actually about what what are the trails going to consist of you're not planning to pave any trails are you oh that's if I could Erica that's a great question so we're actually removing pavement the trails the cart paths the former golf cart paths were a combination of of crushed stone trap rock gravel and pavement and so we're actually planning as part of our ecological restoration to remove a number of the trails that were paved because they're impervious and they're just more impactful so the entire loop trail on the lower left will be crushed gravel it'll be compacted crushed gravel very simple not unlike parts of the Conti trail over in Hadley if you will or for instance I love the trails at the Emily Dickinson Museum off of Main Street and Amherst very similar to those six feet wide with a sub base and then a top coat of very fine crushed stone so the people in walkers and wheelchairs will be able to navigate them and then we have what we call single track trails which will simply be a conservation um um um um grass if you will um so for instance around sheet seven up in the upper left hand corner you can see that yellow trail that entire trail will be single track mode path and it'll be perfect in the winter for cross country skiing there um there will be a couple of places where we will leave the bituminous um and because it's in very good condition and we feel like it still can be valuable and it would take a lot of money to remove it so in a couple of places we're going to keep it and we may remove it in future years but we're not adding any impervious bituminous pavement anywhere we will not be paving any of this that's so nice to hear thanks Garin and Pat yes my question was the answer when we're talking about the surface of the paths to assure that they're handicap accessible we are we are we are going for as much accessibility as we possibly can we can't make all of the trails fully accessible um frankly because of grade changes and costs so but the loop trail to the left lower left will be accessible and the main trail coming down from east Hadley road will be accessible and that will get people out to west street um over near it says sheet 12 if you see on the right hand side it says sheet 12 and the trail goes from purple to to black and black is um if you are going down that black section if you're going down west street um on your way to the new roundabout there is a sewer pumping station access road there and so we're going to use that um we're working with DPW and we will we will sign and paint part of that access road which is quite wide so that pedestrians hikers can use that to get out to west street and then down um just funded new sidewalks along west street all the way up to crocker farm school so it it really dovetails nicely with new sidewalks to get people either north to crocker farm school or south to the village center down near the moan and dove and el comolito and and mission cantina and other uh you know there's a laundry mat and other amenities down in the village center but it does strike me that we need to send you some of the cut sheets from our signs because i know that is uh you know a major focus of the drb and and i think we can get those to you i will say while i'm in front of you i wish i magically had the funding to redo all of our signs at all of our conservation areas because it is quite a hodgepodge i'm not proud of the variety shall we say of signs throughout our town i would love to have them all be uniform standardized clear accessible uh etc etc and we're it's it's a goal of mine but it's it's a pretty big nut to fund and and get going we've we've interviewed some designers um we've worked with the kestrel trust as well because i think they've done some really nice work with their kiosks and um they're willing to help us on some of these as well so did you want to continue because that your hand is still i'm sorry i'm doing this on my iphone and it's a little a little different no worries my laptop sorry about that but thank you for noticing that i just didn't want to cut you off no not at all thank you all right and kevin do you have any thoughts to share i'm just agreeing about the signage it would be great to see some of signs and uh i just have to uh agree with david that the signage and amherst needs help and this might be a way to jumpstart it but other than that i have nothing to say about the plan it looks very good right but i'd be good for us to see some signage examples yeah i'm going to agree on that point i think that it's um you know when those are already we could have a a quick meeting to to review those um i have a couple maybe rapid fire questions um i we're not seeing the bridge design and i don't know that the drb really needs to um you know extend our purview over them but i'm curious just about what materials you'd be using for the bridges yeah um so we'll have three different kinds of bridges all two out of three quite simple designs ones for cars trucks uh want to be for trucks want to be and that'll double as a pedestrian bridge another one will be simply a pedestrian bridge um and then a third will be a boardwalk a raised boardwalk over a wetland area on the loop trail to the uh lower left of your screen um the two the two bridges um closest to the clubhouse will be pretty simple low profile um low profile pressure treated uh bridges um we can certainly send the those plans to rob wichila uh and feel free to take a look at those um the other the boardwalk which will go over the the wetland uh at about sheet eight in the lower left hand corner if you see that green area there's about a an 80 foot long span we we have to get over a wetland and so that we're hoping and this is kind of uh where i will use the word hope very strongly we are hoping to use um helical piers and create a big bridge with helical piers if you're familiar with them they are kind of like long you know big screws that you screw into the ground very minimal impact in a wetland um and we're hoping to be able to afford i will say in the bidding helical piers whether we will achieve that or not in this bidding climate i'm not sure but very low impact can be screwed into a wetland and then the bridge uh or the boardwalk i should say the boardwalk is attached to those uh posts that are screwed into the ground and this is a pretty pretty common um it's getting to me more common in wetland boardwalks all over the country and it avoids pressure treated lumber at least touching the ground it is not strong enough for vehicles to go over so that bridge would simply be for pedestrians these are some other images that i had was tossing around and i don't know how closely they mimic what was you know what dav has envisioned but this is a file that came with this information packet yeah these are the files done by our landscape architect and um yeah that's a great one to stop at so the loop trail this is this is the design of the loop trail this would be a six foot wide crushed down path with simple benches um um yeah again i we don't have we don't have the detail on the signs and i know we'll get that to you and i apologize for not having that all right um yeah so my other rapid fire questions were about those um uh benches i don't know if the town has a bench standard for um public outdoor spaces natural spaces um i imagine that like sweet alice this is going to be a carry in carry out situation so we won't have like trash cans around but um will there be um break parking like a bike lock uh back sorry and is there any existing lighting around the parking area i know you said it's really a dawn to dusk place but dusk falls hard and fast these days and i just um safety around the the parking seems important yeah so let me take those in order so um um we're treating the the benches um and again we can get you i'm just making a couple of notes we can get you the bench style um and i'm not uh this is more kind of for broad um i don't you normally don't get into bench style but i think you're just the group is kind of interested in in what it might look like correct i think we we are interested in the bench style given that this is town property and like if there's uh if we begin to have a language of of town property or if there is like you know it's just the strategy of what looks good and is affordable for this particular condition and i think that there's argument to be made that we kind of have a language gotcha so in short the short answer in your rapid fire is um um we haven't selected the bench style yet it will it will likely not be the same as say kendrick park or grove park because we view those more as recreation areas and this is more of a conservation area so we will get you that bench style we are still kind of in our staff meetings talking about that and it hasn't gone out to bid yet and we hope to have it out to bid in december so we'll get you bench style ideas yes the answer on bike loops at the parking area for sure we will have those and those are fairly standard now i think uh we we came in to the d rb with a parking lot at potik kathryn coal and we put in a loop or two there a bike loop we also did a bike loop at sweet alice conservation area and we came in with a bike loops there you know the pretty standard black um style and and i apologize i'm not a landscape architect um and then lighting we currently do have some minimal security lighting at hickory ridge it's mostly to illuminate the building and we honestly we haven't realized since the building is not going to be there as a permanent fixture there we've not considered what would happen long term short term the building is not going anywhere because i don't have funding to remove it yeah so short term there will be lighting there but i think long term there there may be the need for say one light there or something of that sort again we're we're probably looking at co-locating some other town uses there um one of the images that jen maybe you could go back to which i i love it i think it's the one to the far right it shows uh zip through those real quickly these were done by our landscape architect ah there we go this oops one back that one actually is near the parking lot you can see the parking lot in the foreground and this is an area that used to be the driving range at hickory ridge and we envision it to be uh with with a modest improvement an area for performances for plays for musicals an outdoor um amphitheater space and the parking would be very close and you can see uh kind of a dream if you will of a of a an amphitheater with an accessible path over to that amphitheater so that might be phase three or four in this project we don't have it funded yet um and as i said we're just trying to meet these grand deadlines for now but i'm hearing bench styles some images upon loop uh bike loops and some images of signs um which we can all we can get from some of our previous submittals for podic cathrine coal conservation areas and sweet alice um i see lindsay's hand and sorry lindsay that i kept talking before and then you end up with mine you actually asked one of my questions which was about the benches um so yes i think seeing bench style and then also i would add to the list railings um and it i am remembering that at conty the railing and the bench often are one and the same um which is a really i think a nice precedent um in terms of how it might you know work to respond to the landscape at certain moments to have kind of a railing that extends out into a bench platform or or um little seating nook or something like that so as opposed to you know actually picking out something and putting it in place that's manufactured um if it's more of a built-in place um so i do think that railings are an important thing to look at as well no we'll get that we'll get that detail to you um i will say that most of the benches are standalone um unlike conty uh so much of conty is a raised boardwalk and really um the loop the loop trail and the trail from north to south the vast majority of that will just be crushed stone paths so the only area that will be will be raised will be the boardwalk over that wetland to the to the west um and i'll have to look what jennifer and i can look at the details on that but as you if you're familiar with conty which is a wonderful um which is a wonderful uh trail over i think it's a mile and a half to two miles long if you do the whole thing um a lot of it is raised um and quite a distance off the ground we're working with our building commissioner i believe and and maybe one of uh one of the members could help me out here but i believe if the if a boardwalk is raised more than 30 inches if i'm not mistaken then it does require a rail um it could be a little higher than that but i'm not sure not being an architect or landscape architect yeah i think it's actually less than that is it yeah um well it could be but we're working with our building commissioner on that okay um karen i'm wondering if this is uh having benches here would be uh something that you could reach out to the community and have people dedicate them to loved ones i think it adds a nice historical touch it makes it very personal and you could save a lot of money that way and i'm not sure that the benches all i mean there's something to be said for having them be uniform but there's also something to be said for having this be a very sort of eclectic wild not that finished look so that you can have this kind of a bench in this kind of a grotto and this kind of bench in another grotto and i think if you reach out to the community there are probably lots of people that would love to memorize memorialized loved ones in this way and as far as railings and things i i love conty but i i welcome the fact that this is going to be um a kind of landscape which can be pretty untouched as much as possible and just left as natural so i would say the less hand rates and less sort of man-made constructions in this area the nicer in a way um yeah thank you yeah we can definitely take a look at those ideas um we do um just a broader consumption part of the the comprehensive plan will be an ecological restoration plan for the entire property we already have completed that with a local company and so i mentioned part of that will be removing culverts blocked culverts that have been hampering the movement of water for years in wildlife we'll be um we'll be working with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Mass Wildlife on uh stream bank restoration the Fort River has been channelized and hardened uh through the years so that some of that hardening material that riprap will actually be coming out not as part of this project but in collaboration with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and um and uh Mass Fishing Game um we'll look at the benches current um one of the things about standardizing them um i having managed our conservation land for so long one of the big challenges with with benches is um you know if you build them they will get used and they will deteriorate over time so the challenge is how do we maintain those over time i'm i'm not a big fan of park benches in conservation areas i think there's a place for those and and we have that in Kendrick Park and Sweets of Park and uh Groff Park but the challenge is what will weather well out there and and what um what will what will last we've also we've moved away a little bit certainly in conservation land uh from memorial benches um um in part because the feeling is that memorial memorial plaques that are visible in a way privatized public space um so what we've moved toward is a different model which is if a family would like to give a memorial bench or a memorial tree they can do that without the plaque they'll know that bench overlooking this beautiful beaver pond or this vista is for their family member but we try to avoid putting the plaque on it because it just in many folks minds uh privatizes uh permanently protected public space so in parks we still do it but on conservation land we try to not do it but we offer the family that alternative to say if you'd like to to fund a bench for instance for a thousand dollars or whatever style of bench you choose you can do that we'd love to do that and you'll know that bench is for your loved one or even your I don't know we've had people dedicate uh things in memory of their dogs and pets so things like that so we kind of got great creative that makes sense yeah thank you thank you no um yeah I think collectively that what what I'm hearing is that there may be a lot of ideas for things but what we'd love is it to for for you all to present to us what your design strategy is and so whether it's an eclectic mix or all one um that we just like to know that there's some design strategy heading into this project um I've got four things bench style bike loop style yep images of signs railings images of or plans for railings on boardwalks and then I would add um kind of kiosk design yeah we kind of bridges that um yeah and I would the one thing I will say is that what I appreciate so much that a great deal of this trail is um accessible to uh different types of mobility and and body types and things like that and some uh benches with arms can actually help folks to get up and get down and things like that and so while I appreciate that your kind of distinction between a park bench and a conservation bench uh there may be some value especially on the accessible trail to think about accessibility oh absolutely the the benches will have arms the Conti um is very very deliberate in their um their style of benches as as one of your members pointed out there they're part of the the railing in many cases but they include multiple hand the design includes multiple places for folks who seniors or others who may need more support to stand so we will include those for sure well I'm not sure that we have um much to vote on um here but I think you've heard some great feedback and appreciate your answering all of our questions it's been I know we've heard a lot um at you and it's going to be a really exciting project I I do I feel if the if the kiosk design is what you showed us um and we've approved the one at suite alice so if it's a uh duplicate of that then that's something that we could approve this evening um I'd love to just come back to you with a little package of images so you have it all in one place that's fine with us and if um we'd love to try to sneak back in with you I think before the planning board here's any further discussion so I would treat tonight as kind of an overview of the project and then I'll work with Jennifer and and Rob to get you more of the details those could be sent by email and then we could schedule another time to to meet with you all to get into the to the detail if that works and Rob will help you with the scheduling we generally meet um once a month on the the last what is today Monday the last Monday of the month so usually we do um special meetings so usually um you know we do like a special meeting sometimes if if there's like a time constraint so Dave do you know when that playing board review is supposed to take place for this project at the top of my head I don't rob but we can we can talk with Chris Breastrup tomorrow about that and if if the members would be willing to maybe sneak in a special time to to look at some of the details if we get you those in advance by email then we could have another round at this with the specifics of the detail okay hopefully that's good where the planning board meets because I'm sure they would love your feedback it helps inform them as they look at the broader project yep all right good we have a we have a strategy for moving forward thank you well there's a lot happening out there it's um it's a big canvas and we we you know we got we did an engage Amherst page on Hickory when we first bought it and we got so much feedback about trails and ski across country skiing and zip lines and affordable housing and amphitheaters and community gardens and the list goes on and on I'm meeting with a group that is interested in a children's mountain biking trail it's called a pump track I was not familiar with that before but they would wonder whether we could fit a pump track out on Hickory and I'm not sure we can but meeting with them later this week or next week so but the main the main reason we purchased it was the specially ecological assets of the property it has a number of rare and endangered species it affords us the opportunity to connect people with the village center and with this 150 acre area that can be for picnicking and kite flying and bird watching and hiking and fishing people swim in the Fort River out there in certain places so all of those assets can now be part of our you know what we can offer the community and perhaps we might have a fire station there somewhere down the road or affordable housing or a community center of some sort who knows that's great yeah I'm Rob is it still true that there aren't members of the public this evening there are no members of the public given the interest I'm surprised that there aren't some folks here who who wish to share their thoughts but since there aren't I think that we can close out this part of the conversation and we'll surely see you in a couple weeks great thank you all thank you thank you very excited thank you all right folks um no public comment um so we can move on to meeting minutes and approval we have two meetings minutes for two our most recent meetings to approve this September 25th and October 6th did you have a chance to review those for coming tonight or should I share my screen three total pages between the two of them by the way yeah yeah Erica could you mind putting them up please sorry thank you all right so here we have September 25th this was our first meeting with Botanica home so I'll pause here so was she going to take down the awning and put brand new awning up because I drove by the other day and I was hoping to see her new awning it wasn't there but it looked like it was the old awning that had no lettering yes she's going to renovate the old awning but okay I thought she was going to put a brand new one and this is these are the meeting minutes from our first we met with her twice we asked her to come back so the first meeting we had a number of suggestions for her which were represented yeah the old awning looks a little worn not at safe spots putting a new fabric on it eventually I guess okay I guess the existing the existing frames still looks pretty good I mean last time I checked it out I yeah I'm thinking it was going to be a total new yeah so we asked her to return and then the second one is Tecariada pre below a new signage which was approved without suggestion and that one was pretty straightforward too it's just like a awning signed with a decal yeah and then we did Julie Nolan jewelry signage there and in summary we approved some and asked her to come back if she was going to add additional signage to the small window next to the door handwritten gold leafing which probably takes a while to do I imagine second fantastic all those in favor of approving the minutes from September 25th say hi hi great unanimous and then we have one more meeting minutes to approve and the only thing on the agenda was uh botanical home yeah so I may have lied about the number of pages that's my bad you actually have five pages instead of a three like I suggested between two minutes but these look pretty small too so no complaints there you go it seems at one point folks had discussion about um putting the bird where the globe is on the existing blue marble sign but then I think the discussion was if they did that the lettering looked kind of small so they sell for putting the bird in the middle between botanical and homes or something like that yeah Lindsay liked the idea of the bird on top of the a yeah I think she knew that option yeah but she was gonna look at it but we agreed to approve it as she presented it that evening yeah is the word bulb supposed to be bird so the bulb was in reference to that little area that kind of curved up on the awning frame so if you look to the blue marble sign you know how you have that one area where it bumps out and there's the the globe so that's kind of what I meant by bulb but if you want me to change that to something else I could definitely do that if it's confusing um I I just I don't know did I say that all I remember saying was that I was wanting the bird wondering if the bird could stay on top of the a um if the because the a was that's what it was is that the a was still big but the bird wasn't on it and that felt funny I don't know how I don't know that's all I remember saying if the bird could come back and the a could get smaller or something but let me change that to reflect that point just because you know I think I remember you I remember you bring that up and you said you'd like if the bird was on top of the a yeah I think somebody else had mentioned putting the bird where the bulb was too and I don't know if that was you or sorry in lieu of I think that um I remember Catherine asking that question yes um maybe the um in lieu of bulb because they rounded part of the awning okay but not as my comment but not as Lindsay's comment yeah and you could just change bulb to bird I did I and I still do think it would have been nice to have the the a just be small and then the bird be on top and instead of but it's not big too okay I'll make those changes accordingly and then we can approve these uh minutes in the next meeting Catherine did you have a I moved that we approve these minutes before you see the changes I thought I thought you would finish with these I thought that's what you asked sorry yeah no I see we could well you've made a motion would anybody like the second Karen second thank you okay so um all those all those in favor of approving the minutes as is say I I think we need to revise um yeah so I was going to say that motion does not pass um we'll we can revise the minutes and revisit them at the next meeting although Rob doing that well you could also say what the changes are and just say we'll prove them with these specific changes but you know it's up to you as the board if you would rather do it the next meeting that's also fine but other boards have done it the way I suggested to it mean it's up to you that's fine um what does the group prefer they're they're your words Lindsay I'm I'll defer to you I'm fine with moving to approve it with the changes suggested you want to turn that into a motion I move to approve the minutes um with the changes um discussed okay Karen a second okay now all those in favor please say I and and I abstain because I wasn't at the meeting motion passes motion passes with one abstention marvelous okay that's it great that is it my favorite board to be on your own so just a quick question about um if we just for everybody to know I'm not going to be around the week of Thanksgiving so if there is an additional meeting that occurs um for the park review that we just listen to if it could be not during that week or just know that I won't be available yeah thank you I know it does get into a tricky time for scheduling but I think in general if I could speak to that a lot of boards and committees aren't going to schedule for that week anyways and our normal meeting is the Monday after Thanksgiving so would you still be out of town around that time you think Lindsay no I'll be back at that time okay so my guess is that it would be any time between today and November 17th at the absolute latest for a second meeting so are there days of the week that generally don't work for people just so have an idea um or does it not matter to the group Mondays are probably my best but okay that I can do other nights if same for me I can't do Wednesdays I also can't okay so Wednesdays out of the equation and Fridays probably don't want to meet on Friday afternoon um so I'll keep those two days in mind Pat what about you Monday Monday is actually the best day for me because it's rare that I have a conflict on a Monday all right sounds good well depends on the week so okay see how it goes so Monday sounds like the most ideal maybe a Tuesday but I'll keep that mind right all right fantastic okay let us adjourn all right all right good night thank you bye bye have a good night everyone bye