 Welcome back. It's all the breakfast on Plants to be Advocates. We have one more discussion before we call it a day Both chambers of the National Assembly finally passed a students loan bill sponsored by the speaker of the House of Representatives Himself Honorable Femme Bajabia Mila. Maybe it might just end up being a means of education with his work so far Now this bill aims to enable Nigerian students in high institution Institutions of learning have access to financial assistance The proposed legislation titled the bill for an act to provide for easy access to higher education for Nigerians through Interest-free loans from the Nigerian Education Bank established in this act with a view to providing education bill for Rather education for all Nigerians and for other purposes connected there to that's quite a mouthful Well the house passed the bill earlier this year and forwarded it to the Senate for concurrence With the Senate's concurrence a clean copy would be procured or produced and transmitted to Mr. President Mahmoud Buhari who has sent Once again once it's signed into law Nigerian students will begin Accessing the loans quite an interesting development, but a big question is can Nigeria successfully Implement this idea. It's Nigeria ready for student loans I'm glad to see we have joining us this morning to discuss this An educationist Professor a biola a washika fape to she joins us a live a zoom from Lagos our professor. Good morning. Thank you very much for your time Fantastic, let's let's just hit the bullseye straight up It's like you are ready to do what the Americans have been doing for for for so long and still haven't perfected Having student loans Well, I don't think We need to worry about what anybody else is doing Let's look at the situation that we have on and do our people need help Getting quality education if the answer to that is yes Then what the government needs to do is let's examine whether we can Give these loans to them if We think we can Then we should now the problem that will occur is when the students graduate and they can't pay back However, you know the the banks have They've tested the waters if you know some of these Short short loans that they've been giving to individuals in within Nigeria they've tried to Master what it is to get Nigerians to pay back So if we can fine-tune that I think yes We should give these students the opportunity You to get good quality education Interesting You you just say you said it all the issue of question will be about paying back these loans How do you think this should work first of all should this be For the benefit because I don't have a copy a clean copy of this yet But we can we can we can we can talk about it till we can see what it the dot the details are Should this be just for students in public? You know institutions should it be for students in private institutions as well? Should we look at just a tertiary education? Do we need to expand it to other levels of education? What do you think how do things they should work? Well, I think they should start small. I mean let's let's start with the tertiary institutions and let's try it with public universities Because by the time you go to private, you know the bill is getting bigger and It might be difficult to to handle so it's new It's it let's test the waters with institutions of higher learning They need money for Housing they need money for textbooks and then they may not be paying a high tuition right now But you know the expenses of keeping Upkeep for them is very paramount So let's start with tertiary institution first and then if it works we can now include private institutions as well And then maybe secondary schools and so we're told I'll put it that way We're told or they say that tuition remains free, you know in Nigerian public universities So they don't pay for the for the tuition all they pay is for the pay for for charges, you know Of not modern buses. Yes, you know, maybe in the region about 60,000 a year. So if the government is looking at Loans for students in public tertiary institutions, for instance, I mean, what's the aim if tuition is basically free like they say? well, yes tuition is free and You know, this is probably once once the loans are Managed well it probably gives this higher institution the need. I mean the possibility of maybe Hiking the fees, I don't know But if you ever had a child in university, you know that it's not just tuition You know, they have to I mean, I think at least there's a I have a niece that's it's 300,000 To keep her in school Because you know, she has to pay for a dormitory. He has to pay for books. I mean you have Devices, you know that, you know, you have to buy Laptops and stuff like that. So such things would require loans not just tuition Okay Would you rather government looks for a way in investing any money they would put into this because I I Suspect, you know, they might bring in some of the private sector players But this is an education bank Which probably will be government run Do you think they should put the effort into improving the tertiary institutions and education institutions across board in the country? Priority, yeah, I'm saying I'm saying I mean government is going to invest in in this to a large extent Do you think that the priority for government in terms of where they put the effort and apply their attention to? should be as a matter of priority in improving Education in terms of facilities in terms of the welfare of teachers in terms of improving the curriculum. Oh Absolutely Again This is because this is the topic that we are talking about I if you know if we are to tell ourselves the truth This is not the first thing we should be talking about it is, you know improving our institutions Expanding access to other Nigerians who want, you know my education I improving the lot of the Lecturers improving the lot of the staff that should be our primary aim But hey, this is what they think they can do And so this is what they think they have on the table But for me, I think She'll probably find a solution to How we get our institutions to be world-class Before we even begin to give loans to the students so that they can pay For the world-class education that we will be charging them for All right, because I still think I still think Tertiary education is too cheap in this country. That's why other people are flocking into Nigeria and you know taking our people away You know, we train them for free and then they come and take them away And that is a problem, which you know needs to be discussed More I mean you you've said it before on this on this channel that to you think at occasionally so cheap in the country Yeah, and I need your soul, right to say And indeed you're so right to say that we train doctors or train nurses We train, you know people who writes in ranks of professors and our countries take take them away without even giving Nigeria Any compensation which is which is totally wrong. I totally agree with you I Will go back to United States of America and to the workability out so we can look at that as a Case study for the workability of this in the country Joe Biden has had to since became president and back on a student loan debt forgiveness plan in America because the students they are finding difficult to pay back their loans What has happened in the United States of America? You're very familiar with that system Ma'am is that you you graduate from the university and you get a job You can even start working while in the university and while you're working you pay back New loans well in Nigeria the jobs are simply not there a lot of university graduates are struggling to script by You know the people who have never even practiced years after leaving the university of masters degrees Driving taxis today on the streets of Nigeria And if the job market is really this poor, there's a high level of unemployment in the country Where are they going to get the money to pay back these notes? Isn't this a problem? Well Yeah, again These are some of the questions that the house should have asked themselves before they passed loans bill Their situation in in America has gotten very very bad and you know they to have on employment I mean you get out of college and you have about 50 to 60,000 Maybe a hundred thousand dollars worth of loans and you don't know how you're gonna pay So I can see Biden stepping in and trying to alleviate Some of the problems that they have For us in Nigeria, it's it's probably still too early the amounts are probably not going to be very much and it's you know to test the waters and also Right now the parents are the ones Probably paying for their children to be in these tertiary institutions So it will be helping the parents Even though it is for the benefit of the children at this time So if a parent could find out if people if a child could find a woman and the parent could pay for it Then it might probably help Those who really need it All right The credit system is not something that works well in this part of the world You know we know you said that we we we spend what we have and then it's helped us to live within a means You know as opposed to America where you can get things on credit because they have a good You know, you know rating system. They can give you your credit score. They can track everyone. They know your address Here we don't have that, you know, you mentioned the the the new loan companies. What are called loan sharks? They're finding it difficult to track and to get some persons to pay the loans and then you have Every now and then the alt text that come text message that comes into your phone saying somebody, you know is owing them XYZ amount of money in persons a criminal is wanted not to be trusted blah blah blah These are the issues we're dealing with Do you foresee a high level of of bad debts at the end of the day Sure So, I mean for me, I think this is just a way, you know, it's interesting and You know, do you get the loan and if you walk away? There's really not too much that we can To get the money back from you So I think this would just be another way of you know, give giving up giving out free money Because we're not ready yet You know to I mean, yes, we have the BB ends we have in the board We don't have a we don't have the jobs that we can you know Like I Think that it's five pay or something where you attach You you you call the employer and you tell them, you know, you shouldn't pay so what such and such You should pay the money to us because he's owing us You can't do that because you don't have jobs for these children to go into so unless you're gonna have a guarantor Who is going to guarantee that? this Student is going to pay and then when anything happens you pick the guarantor and Then that is who you hold and that is who you tag So salary you tag otherwise. It's it's impossible Very interesting very interesting and I like to take you on on this free education issue I'm some people will will will argue that that Nigeria can totally afford to provide free tertiary education and they say I mean for an all-producing country like Nigeria with the population Nigeria has in the wealth Nigeria has Government can can fund education and ensure that every Nigerian child Or a certain amount of children can afford I can afford to go to school without paying a dime and without going for a loan Some have argued I've said, you know those who and government today in their time They made it out of the villages and rural areas and the families Indigenous families because there was something called government scholarship Government scholarship today is almost dead if not dead at all and it's a sad commentary Some will say on the state of the nation now. Should we be looking at? Rejigging or reviving rather the scholarships where you know the young boy and young girl or the boy and girl rather from the village Can aspire to become whoever they want to be tomorrow, you know get the highest level education They can get because government will pay for them instead of looking at loans well First of all In in in our day We were not 200 million and as far as funds are concerned Today today there is transparency in What money is coming in and how we're spending it I Mean I belong to a group and somebody just posted something In the last month or so that shows and this is I think it's a it's a legitimate Maybe it's budget or something that shows where Nigeria's money is coming from what it's spending it on and where it's owing and you know how much it's owing and And all of that so we all see it and So I want these young people to show me Where the money is Yes, we should have scholarships, but it should be for the few It should be on a neon need spaces not a blanket Scholarship for everybody I Still believe that we should have us a structure That you know if you find out how many children we also have in the tertiary Institutional that any given time and the government gives all of us the same amount of money If you are going to okay, this is You have a million Naira For your education, so you each get a million Naira if it costs a million to go to tertiary Fine if it doesn't then find loans to make up the difference Or you find the school that will accept your million Naira to give you quality education So that way every child has an opportunity So that nobody is supplementing other person's children We're all Nigerians and yet we can only absorb about 600,000 in our university. What about the rest of us? What are we supposed to do so we should look at those things that you know keeping university education as elitist Because only a few can get in But if there's an opportunity for all of us and we have the same amount of money And if my family is well to do and they can borrow money for me to go fine If they can pay for me to go and not borrow money fine But we all get the same amount from the government that Sees to our education. So there's a lot of questions and a lot of answers that need to to find In the issue of education in this country Very interesting professor Biorna I wish I could pop it to maybe in the future would have to match it with somebody for a debate on whether education should Be totally free or not All right, totally appreciate your time is always a thrill to have you on the breakfast and have a fantastic day. Thank you very much Thank you so much. All right. All right. That's the size of our package right here on the breakfast star We turn tomorrow with the ultimate addition Of course, I don't forget you can follow us on the social media platforms Plus to be Africa on Facebook today Instagram and on YouTube and also the second YouTube account plus TV Africa Lifestyle website is out there as well. You can check us out for the latest news My name is Kulfi Bartels on behalf of everybody the entire team. Thank you very much for your time. See you tomorrow