 You mentioned that interview with Gavin Newsom. I think it's worth just playing a bit from that interview because I would like to get your thoughts on the content of what he was saying there. Let's roll that. During COVID, you were pretty strict with the lockdowns here. And it was an interesting piece in Harper's that sort of was critical of your decisions from this perspective. You found a way to allow the motion picture industry and the sort of the movie industry to get back to work. But you didn't allow people to grieve together at funerals or at churches. And that it sort of, and that this may be why there's such a polarized disconnect. What you prioritize, right, this is this anger between the populace and the elite supposedly. Here, you prioritize this industry, but you were tougher on those that just wanted to go worship. What do you say to that, Chris? I think there's a lot of humility. And we didn't know what we didn't know. And it was hardly I, who was we collectively. I think all of us in terms of our collective wisdom, we've evolved. We didn't know what we didn't know. We're experts in hindsight. We're all geniuses now. So think about what we prioritized. What you ended up collectively prioritizing. You're prioritizing an industry. You know, one specific one, but then didn't prioritize maybe one that who's maybe values you didn't connect with. I don't think it's a binary. There was iterations within that theme. There was, there was fits and starts. There were regional frameworks that had impacts more broadly defined. There were more industry specific frameworks. All of us went through a process. I mean, there was few states that didn't go on aggressive lockdowns, including Florida's Ron DeSantis. I understand that. But it was more of. But within the framework of the industries. Who opened the door? It's what industry got leniency in which one state? All of it is legitimate in terms of reflection. All I love. What did something you do differently? Well, I think we would have done everything differently because we understood, we would understand outdoors as an example. Cloud nature. You went to shut schools down, you had to try to figure out how to maybe have outdoor classrooms. No, that's not it. Well, now you're getting into things. But I think the nature of the spread early on and understanding epidemiology of that spread, understanding the spread in the context of how it spread very differently indoors than outdoors is one perfect example what a lot of us would have done differently, including again, in states, red states that shut down their beaches in the early part of the pandemic. So his defense is kind of, we didn't know what we didn't know and we all kind of would have done things differently. What do you think of that, Aaron? I think we did know. And there were people like me in the state, there were people like Jay Bhattacharya at Stanford in the state, there were many of us who were speaking out who were criticizing these policies from the very beginning, starting in 2020, continuing through 2021, we had the epidemiological evidence to understand the lockdowns which had never previously been tested and were never part of pandemic planning prior to 2020 and had been rejected by the public health establishment Did you all ever try to get like an audience with Newsome or any local officials? Oh, absolutely, all of us were trying to get a hearing and in fact, we were silenced, we were suppressed in some cases, we were fired but even when we weren't fired, our universities vilified us, people accused us of wanting to kill grandma and so this whole, it wasn't I, it was we, no, go back and look at the stay at home order. It was signed by Gavin Newsome. Go back and look at his press conference when he announced the first lockdown in California. It was very much I am ordering us to do this and I am taking responsibility for this. So we didn't know any better as nonsense. Many of us did and we were silenced, vilified and in some cases lost our jobs and I'm not responsible because all of us in our thinking has evolved and it's a big we is just a dodge of responsibility. You're the executive, you're the one who declared a state of emergency within California gained additional extra constitutional powers and utilize those powers in ways that were enormously damaging, the effects of which will be felt for decades, the effects of school closures, the effects of lockdowns will be felt for decades. So I have no patience for this. I have no patience for this dodging of responsibility. I'm glad he admitted. Yeah, we would do everything differently now. So you feel sort of vindicated as a critic of lockdown school closures and mask and vaccine mandates. But it's, he's hardly admitting responsibility. He's hardly admitting that he was wrong. I don't know, he's trying to deflect responsibility on to some sort of anonymous collective blob and that's not how a leader behaves. A leader takes responsibility for his or her own decisions. Thanks for watching that clip from our conversation with Aaron Cariotti about the return of COVID mandates and his book, The New Abnormal. You can watch another clip from that conversation right here or the full conversation over here.