 HBC, that just radio continuing our conversation with distinguished leaders from historically black colleges, universities, and we are finishing up a conversation with a historic moment today. Down in the AUC, you just heard a conversation with morrow's college president, David Thomas. And now we are joined by the distinguished president of Spellman College, Dr. Mary Schmidt Campbell. And this is her first time on the show. So we are indeed honored by, by madam president's presence. So thank you so much, Dr. Campbell for making time today. Oh, thank you for inviting me. So you know, it goes without saying this is, this is huge for the college, but certainly not foreign for Spellman, no stranger to, to big philanthropic support. Tell us a little bit about the reaction of the campus, the Spellman community around this gift. I know it came as a surprise to a lot of folks, but it would, it would appear that this was something in the making talks just about the sense of the gift and how people are reacting and how it came to fruition. So, so first let me say this is a historic gift for Spellman. This is the largest scholarship gift the college has ever had in the history of the college. So this was, this was quite something for us. Um, we, this, the gift came as a complete surprise to us, although I will say we had met Patty Quillen and the Hastings about a year and a half ago. Michael Lomax, who's the head of, of UNCF, bought them to the Atlanta University Center, gave them the tour. My board chair and I had an opportunity to have dinner with him. And it was during that dinner that I was really struck by the fact that here was the CEO of a major company who had a real commitment to educational equity. Um, he had been on the board of KIPP for many years. He was, he was real clear about what the issues were and the nature of the disparities between black communities and white communities in this country and the need to close those gaps. So it was a, it was a wonderful opportunity to meet him and his wife. And uh, shortly after that we got a gift from them and then a year later another gift. So they, they had big donors to the college and they, and while they were there, they said that one of the things that really struck them the most were the students. They were just so bold over by our students and the fact of their, how much they appreciated what being at an HBCU meant to them. And that stayed with them. And I think the gift grew out of that under deeper understanding. It's hard to, to imagine this gift as, as separate and apart from what's going on socially, not just here in the United States, but around the world. Uh, you know, as our communities continue to wrestle with and, and deal with, you know, the lynching of George Floyd and you particularly had some powerful comments about what, what is the role of, of Spelman and what is the role of Spelman women at a time like this. And so when you, when you think about the ways that corporate America and a lot of other structural institutional, you know, bodies in the country are saying, you know, maybe we got to start listening, maybe we got to do something different. Is there any kind of dissonance or any kind of separation that you make as a president and as a citizen to say, yeah, that, yes, good, good, Spelman deserves this. But we know that this is in the midst of, of the country trying to lurch towards a better understanding of race and not oppressing black Americans. Yeah. So it's funny. I, I, uh, you know, this country has been lurching for a long time. You know, HBC came into being after we lurched out of a civil war. And we had literally millions of African Americans who, uh, needed to be educated and there was no institutions that would do that. Spelman was, was designed, they, a lot of Baptist female seminary was designed to educate black women here in Atlanta. And, uh, during the, you know, during the Jim Crow era, we kind of lurched again. And, and this is where black women who had high aspirations and real dreams and ambitions for themselves would come, come to. And I, we named the scholarship, the Dovey Johnson Roundtree, um, scholarship after a Spelman alumna who graduated in 1938 and went on to become a, a pioneering civil life attorney, um, you know, in the civil, during the civil life movement, we lurched again. And, you know, women like Marionite Edelman and Boswell and Pope who wrote the, you know, was the main author for the, uh, human life statements that was issued here in Atlanta, um, you know, came out of that. So here, you know, here, here we are yet again in one of those moments where the country seems to have to wake itself up. And, uh, Patti and Reed have been very, very forthright in saying that this moment is what inspired them to make a gift of this scale. Um, I, we just spent yesterday three hours in interviews with them with, in which Reed made that statement over and over again. That, um, they had been making those, these modest gifts. And when they first called us, they said the gift was going to be for 20 million dollars, which I felt was fantastic. I thought, oh my gosh, what an incredible gift this is. And I immediately called my board chair and I thought, oh, we were celebrating the day after Patti sent another, an email and said, you know what, Reed decided that we have to do more. And they up to took 40 million dollars. And so there's no question, but that this moment has, has given, given them, them a sense of urgency. And it's their, their hope that, in fact, this, their leadership gift will inspire others like it. So I, I think this is a very important statement for them to make, not only for HBCUs and for, you know, particularly Morehouse and Spelman, the statements are going to make to their peers. And so, um, hopefully it's a moment when their peers are going to be able to hear that statement. Let's, let's talk about that a little bit because Spelman and Morehouse and, and Spelman in particular has done very, very well in terms of maintaining relationships with corporate partners and individuals with, with, you know, sizable wealth to make them recurring partners and donors. Right. And so there's, it's not just, you know, take this 20 million goodbye, good luck. You know, there, there's a constant, there's a constant continuum of, let's talk about how you can make things happen for these sisters on campus. Let's talk about how some of our programming can establish stronger equity in the corporate environment and the scientific environment. How does Spelman, obviously you're at the center of that and your board is at the center of that, but how do you outside of the leadership structure say, here's how an institution fosters that partnership if that's even, if that's even a thing. So I think it happens. I think what I love about Spelman College is that this is a community where everybody participates in leadership. And so it doesn't just happen with our trustees, although our trustees do a spectacular job. This is one of the most incredible boards I've ever seen in my life. And it doesn't just happen with the leadership, although we, I think that our leadership team here is absolutely first rate. But it happens with the faculty. The faculty have relationships with corporations and they're getting into a conversation and they will lead them to the campus and lead them to, to us and our students will be at a research institute or, or doing an internship somewhere and they'll inspire the people around them to then in fact come and talk to the, the college more. We have alumni who are, I mean, our alumni. This is just the most, the hardest working alumnus you can possibly imagine. It's like their job is to be on the lookout for Spelman College. So over the years, over the 139 years of this college, we have created this dynamic community where everybody, he's a member of it, faculty, staff, students, alumni, trustees, feels that it's their responsibility to be vigilant on behalf of Spelman. And so I think it's that all in feeling that, that makes Spelman feel like people will always say, oh, you're such a rich community, rich organization. I say, no, no, no, no, no, we're healthy, we're healthy, but we're not wealthy. But we are very rich in human capital. Yes. And so I, I think it says that you, you know, if that can make a difference. Now, I will very quickly say, we would love to have that human capital matched by financial capital. Because I think you really do to be very, very honest. You really have to have both. Let me, let me shift back to the conversation about the culture change that's going on, right? So we, we talked to doctors about this and I will ask you, usually there, there are trends that take place in fundraiser, particularly in higher education. You know, some years ago it was still, we got to get more scientists and engineers. Let's train them up. Let's give money towards that. At some point, it's been the same for education. At some point, it'll be that for arts. Now we need people who can communicate. We need people who can inspire. Now we're in an era where it's, you know, we need people who can activate the best of our angels in racial justice and autonomy. Are you concerned that this era, this moment right now, with the money that will be flowing in and around it, may come to Spellman in a way and say, you know what, I want, I want Spellman to make 50 black women police chiefs. When that's not all that Spellman does, are you concerned about that? And how do you, how do you kind of respond to the, and I don't want to call it this, but the flavor of the month was saying, let's, let's build racial equity in the country. So I think that one of the goals that I think has emerged during this era is a new brand of leadership and that leadership is useful and that leadership is not acquiescent. It speaks up and stands up for what it believes in. And one of the things that has happened is this moment has opened up where we are speaking with an authority in a way that encourages our white brothers and sisters to pay close attention to what we say we need. So I think that, I think I see that as a shift and that's different from the civil rights movement. I think that is something, although the civil rights movement also looks very young, but I move to get to, you know, King was 39 years old when he was assassinated and very young when he started, you know, the Montgomery bus boycott. But you know, that was a useful movement as well, as was the Black Power movement that came after it. So I think that this, you know, this lurking this time is a new, a young voice, but a new script for that young voice in a way that's saying, you know what, you thought you had all the answers, but you have missed it. And we're going to tell you what has been happening in our community. And I think those leaders corporate philanthropic government leaders, I mean, you know, local and state governments have risen in their authority, I think, during this crisis. And it sure isn't happening at the federal level to really say, you know what, let's pay very close attention. And so I think that this is a moment where we institutions, HBCUs, Black Cultural Organizations, all of us have to make clear what we think needs to change. As an educator, from my perspective, I think investments like the one that Patty and Reed have made need to be greater, a greater number. I think there should be more people like them who are eager to make the kinds of investments that they may. What do you, what do you think about the notion of, and this is particular for Spelman Morehouse too, but mostly because Black women are unafraid and undaunted by speaking up and speaking out even more so than the brothers in a lot of ways. And that's always been the case. I'll let you say that. I'm one of the lesser ones, so I could say that proudly. But I would say, you know, because sisters are always willing to be out in front of the conversation and eager to lead it as they should be. Do you worry, even in the era of social distancing, and we're not quite sure what the campus community is going to look like in the fall, that this is so heavy and so pressing right now that students will say, you know what, maybe I got to take a semester off because this is this is drawing my attention now, or even the students that come back saying, you know, I want Spelman to do more. We got a lot of stuff we got to work on. And this is not business as usual. Do you think that that that is a cause for concern or cause for opportunity for the for the college to say, yes, we can do some things or we can reimagine the way that we coalesce students and institution around issues? So I think this is what I would call a disruptive moment. And you can't have business as usual when you've had a disruption. And you can you can, you know, a disruptive moment can be unsettling, it can be disturbing and be disorienting. And it has been all of that for our students. But it also is a creative opportunity, because, because if you can't think, if you can't do things the way you've always done, you have an opportunity to think creatively about how you can do them differently and better and more effectively. And so I think this is what this is a time when leadership is called on to create some space for people for students to come forward and say, you know what, have we ever thought about this or to have faculty say, you know what, I think we ought to do for staff to say, we need to have a place for our community to have a conversation in the in the coming weeks about what is it that Spelman is you in what way is Spelman uniquely positioned to make an impact in this historic moment. And then the last thing, this is totally unfair. And I preface my question. The success of Spelman and the success of Morehouse and Howard to an extent in terms of philanthropic support over the last two to four years has started kind of an undercurrent conversation about a possible and growing really wealth distribution gap between these schools and some of the other ones. And that's totally unfair to you. And like I told Dr. Thomas, and I will tell you, you got to take care of Spelman, everybody gets it. But how do you answer the question if somebody asks you, is it fair for Spelman to be so prolific at attracting support when Savannah State or Fort Valley is struggling? It does that. How do you answer that? Because in a way it is fair. It is fair to ask that, but it's unfair to ask it to you because you're doing your job. So how do you kind of confront that growing reality, particularly among the students who are asking that question to anybody? Right. And students are asking that question and they have every right to ask that question. I think the responsibility that we have certainly, I'll speak for myself. I think the responsibility that Spelman has is to make sure that as we are telling the Spelman narrative, we are telling it as a narrative of HBCUs. And again, I really respect it the way Patty and Reed have made this gift and the way they talk about it because he begins with his conversations with Michael Lomax, who as the head of UNCF represents 37 of our HBCUs. And he says, Michael educated me about the value and the role that HBCUs play in our community. So I decided to make, because he made the gift to three places. I decided to make 40 million dollars of my gift to UNCF, which ultimately will go to in some way shape or form those other HBCUs. And then individually to Spelman and Moorhouse. So it is extremely important that when one of us gets some success, we use the opportunity, we use the platform, the bully pulpit, the time, the five minutes we have on TV to also celebrate other HBCUs. Xavier, no one, no one creates more African American medical professionals than Xavier University. Prairie View educates some phenomenal number of black engineers. I mean, all you can just go through, you know, FISC has an astrophysicist program that is nationally renowned. I mean, there's so much richness among HBCUs. And what we need to do is celebrate the victories of the ones that are, have something to celebrate and encourage other people to make more victories for all of us.