 One of the ways you can make yourself healthier is by training your body's ability to adapt. So one way to do that is to make your muscles stronger. Another way is to improve your endurance, but here's one that a lot of people don't realize is like a muscle. Your body's ability to adjust to temperature. Okay, so if you expose yourself to cold temperatures or hot temperatures, your body will actually improve its ability to acclimate. This may be why when you live in a hot climate, you tend to do okay with hot temperatures versus your friends who maybe live in colder climates and vice versa. So if you're always in 72 degree climate controlled temperature environments, you may be causing your body to become less healthy because you're not strengthening the muscle that adapts to temperature. This one is one nobody considers. I'm actually glad you went this way because I've been meaning to off air even ask you this so fuck it we'll just do it right now because I'm never good at explaining to people exactly what's going on when you cold punch. I think the space advertises the benefits of the cold plunge wrong like they do with many things, right? The same way we used to market fasting, I think the wrong way. I think we market the cold plunge the wrong way too. We make it all about sports performance recovery or like mental mindset. I've actually the benefits I always try and sell to people on it is I've noticed a huge difference in my body's resiliency to like the common cold. And I know they're connected. I know that when I'm training that ability to regulate my temperature and do the plunges like crazy. I've never felt so resilient like where I could be in a room like this with one of you sick and not get sick. If I'm not doing it, it is like a 99.9% chance I will pick that cold up. What is it that's going on that allows me to do that? Because it's not necessarily my immune system that I it is. Well, okay, so they've done studies on cold contrast. And what they find is that it does stimulate an immune response. It does seem to trigger cascading effects that will increase the amount of let's say T cells that are produced, your cytokine production is modulated. But I think that that's just part of the story. I don't think that's the whole story. I mean, if we take a step back, a healthier body in general is going to be more resilient to any kind of stress, which includes the stress of having to fight an infection, the stress of having to deal with daily stressors in life, the stress of losing sleep. Let me stop you to have a stronger response, right? If you weren't exposing yourself frequently to like different extreme temperatures, well, I would be less vulnerable too, right? So for example, let's say, you know, when I'm cold plunging, I mean, one of the things that it helps you regulate is stress, right? The ability. And so if we're, if we're all are always in this kind of mild, low level stressors that are always happening to us, I just came in, let's say, and somebody cut me off, you know, outside and like in like, that's a stress, right? And my, and so if you got like that stuff going on, and then you also get put in an environment where somebody is also sick, and you're not resilient like that, because you haven't trained to like, manage that self-regulate those, those mild levels, ups and downs of stress, I would think that makes you more susceptible to getting that cold also. Probably, I think it's a lot more complex than we, than we understand. That's why I can't explain it. Yeah, I mean, I do, I just, it's like, I just tell people, trust me, I promise you. Well, it's like, people will say, oh, it's mental toughness. People will say it's worth something. Yeah, like, okay, can you train mental toughness? You can. Yeah. Well, what happens? You just accept the fact that something's hard. I think that's part of it. But I do think, and there's data to support this, that physiologically, structures of the brain change, how your body responds and reacts to stress changes. You know, for example, when you're, when you expose yourself to heat, you know, blood vessels dilate, okay, your, your, the way your body sweats changes where blood flow goes changes. Same thing when you're cold. When you're cold, your blood will move from the extremities, go to your core to keep your core warm. That there's, there's mechanisms involved. And these are simple ones. It's way more complex than what I'm saying. They're mechanisms involved in making those things happen. If you never train them, then you're not going to be as good at dealing with those extremes. Period. End of story. Look, I remember when I first kind of pieced this together, I had a client who was from Wisconsin. And now she had lived here for a long time. But Wisconsin, there was parts of Wisconsin get real cold. Okay, in the winter. And she grew up on a farm. So I remember one day we were working out, and she was like, Oh, my niece wants to come visit. And she, you know, she works on the farm, farm girl, whatever. She's like, it was over here, it was like November. Okay. Over there. It was already freezing, freezing. Yeah. So she said, you know, she's gonna come visit. Is it okay if she works out with us? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So here, we're in California in November. I don't know what it was, 50 something degrees, maybe at the lowest, maybe, right? 53 degrees. Probably 60. Yeah. So in she walks in a tank top in shorts. Okay. And literally the first thing I ever mouth is like, Oh, my God, the weather. So I can't believe how warm it is. I looked I'm like, Oh, am I in a sweater? You know, that's always when I came back from Chicago, same thing. It was and I acclimated just from being there for like three years and coming back, it was like, yeah, it was, it was probably like 50, you know, here and everybody's bundled up with like blankets and everything watching a football game and I'm just shorts and take top just chilling. Totally right. I remember when I lived in Palm Springs, it gets so hot there in the summer, so 120 degrees. And I came to visit my family. And it was 88 degrees here, which is hot, right? And everybody's like, Oh, my God, it's so hot. And I remember I came I went outside. I'm like, it's not that hot. Now, you think to yourself like, well, it's because I'm used to, no, no, no, there are, there are physical changes that happen to the body that help you acclimate. It's like, for some reason, we don't think this is this will happen. But I mean, obviously, right, if I handle rough objects to my hands change, do I develop calluses? Right? Does my skin adapt to the sun? Do people adapt to swimming underwater a lot? They do? We know this? That's all our bodies are adaptation machines. That's right. So I mean, it's the right exposure. It's it's all of that stuff in consideration, right? And so I think that's where you might get sort of tipped over. If it's like a real extreme version of that, like temperature and you like might leave you a little more susceptible and vulnerable, I would imagine that look, this is by the way, you look this up as a fact, kids that grow up with multiple animals in the house, or kids that grow up on farms, far less likely to develop auto immune issues and have stronger immune systems. Okay, why? Go outside roll the dirt. They are exposed to way more bacteria, viruses, mold, fungus, all kinds of stuff, because animals bring that shit in and out all the time, as little kids, they get less sick. Right? Now you would think, well, viruses, bacteria, mold, those things call cause illness. Maybe we should just like, avoid all of them. Right? Instead, that causes our bodies to weaken. Right? Now, the dose makes the poison. But my point with that is, you know, when in human history, except for the last like, you know, 0.005%. When in human history, have we been in perfect temperature all the time? Never. Never. It was either too hot or really cold or hot in the morning, cold at night, dry or humid or whatever. That's right. That's right. So I think that's what what is interesting about the, you know, the big cold plunge movement right now, and then also the counter movement to it is, I think that it's only been a very small time in history, where we are, we didn't have to naturally learn to adapt to the fluctuation of temperatures. And I think that we haven't put enough decades together to really recognize, well, what are some of the drawbacks of not doing that? And I think we've maybe made some connections, but I think there's a lot of connections. We've atrophied. Yeah. And then I think what you're seeing, why I think it blew up is because you're getting people like myself that can't quite articulate what the hell is going on. I know it's making me feel way better. And it's, it's so obvious that you feel that feeling initial right away. Yeah. That's another thing too. Like, oh yeah, right away, you get the kind of cold me and you get you go in that thing as much of a pain the acid is, and then you get out of it. I dare you to tell me it's not one of the best feelings you've ever felt afterwards. The, the energy spike, the mental clarity that you have, like, and then, and it's how it sustains through the day. So yeah, it's hard as shit to do it. Oh, whatever. But I mean, it really annoys me that there's a counter movement in our, our space now on it, because of course, like always, not everybody knows how to articulate what, what the benefits are. And so everything has to be connected to fat loss or muscle gain or muscle gain or something that you can show in a, in a controlled six week study to say that it does this. Oh, this guy said it does this. And we did, they've, we already showed a study that that's doesn't really do that. And so it's like, throw it out. It's, it's stupid. It's, it's like, God, so by the way, you lose so many people by doing that. Today's giveaway is maps anabolic. Here's how you can enter to win. Leave a comment below this video on the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments section. We also have a sale going on this month. Maps bands half off and the hardgainer bundle of programs is also half off. If you're interested, click on that link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. By the way, I want to say this. Fat loss and muscle gain are both adaptations as well. If your body is generally better at adapting, it will also generally, of course, all things being equal, right? Some guy might have better genetics in you or whatever. Forget that. Talking about just you. If your body overall becomes more effective, better, more efficient at adapting, then that means generally speaking, it will be better at adapting to stresses like strength training or going in a calorie deficit and trying to burn body fat. So this is why adaptogens, by the way, adaptogens are a weird category of herbs, which we used to laugh at. Okay, the medical community, scientific community used to make fun of the term adaptogen. What the hell does that mean? Helps your body adapt to stress. Show me the data. What does it do to your hormones? What does it do to whatever? Now we finally have data. Ashwagandha, rhodiola, ginseng, right? What do they do? Well, it looks like they, in many cases, help with everything. How can they help with everything? Because they help the body deal with stress or, to put it differently, they improve your body's ability to adapt. Now, I want to be clear, all the things I just listed, pale in comparison to simply training your body to the elements. I remember thinking about Palm Springs, I remember this, middle of summer. Okay, you're talking about 120 degree heat. Okay, heat. Soul melting, like the bottom of your shoes. So it's like, it's painful hot. Yeah. And I remember driving in the middle of the day to get lunch or whatever. And I'd see roofers, roofers on the roof working in that working. And I remember looking at them and I'm like nuts. Yeah, but they, you know what? They do it, they do it all the time, every day. I'm sure they feel hot. I'm not saying that they're comfortable up there. But you put me up there. First of all, you can make me as fit as you want in the gym. I could be a super athlete. If I don't do that, I ain't gonna last, you know, because that's another form of adaptation. It's like when I would, you know, even recently, recently, I went to go help my dad move something heavy. And it was a jagged piece of furniture, right? So it's like wood corners or whatever. By this point, my dad's got arthritis everywhere. I'm definitely stronger than my dad now, okay? But we're moving, but we're moving this, this jagged, you know, sharp edges piece of furniture. And I had to put it down. Hold on. I put it down. It hurts my hands. My hands are hurting. And I had to go put gloves on. Meanwhile, my dad's bare handed, like holding it and it's not hurting him. It's because he's handled rough objects with the work that he's done since he was a child. So it's like he's got natural gloves on, right? Where does that come from? It's adapting. So think of all the different ways you could train your body to adapt. Again, the dose makes the poison just like with exercise, it must be appropriate. So if you never use a sauna, for example, and you go in there and you just push yourself to failure for an hour, you're going to feel like dog shit for three days, you're probably going to go too far just like if you never work out and go to the gym and beat yourself up. The dose makes a poison. It's got to be appropriate. Allow your body to slowly adapt. So maybe it's like, okay, when I drive to work, it's cold. Instead of putting the heater on, I won't put the heater on. Wim Hof had a really cool, I forget what he called it or whatever, but I mean, he literally started like, you know, 30 seconds at the end of your shower for a week. And then the next week, go to one minute of just of it and then two minutes of it at the end of your shower, then get to the place where you can go, go plunge into the water for a minute to two minutes. And then you just keep working your way up like that. I mean, that was me, like, I remember the, I mean, I remember the first time we did it with Justin and Justin kicked our asses because he had the Wim Hof training. Yeah. And it was like, I was waiting for the fat joke. Well, isn't fat an insulator? There it is. There it is. Yeah. Continue. That's the real advantage. Coming off of the pass, I couldn't. I mean, he smoked us when we did that, right? And it was so hard for me to do it. I just, I had no concept of what I, what I needed to do. I was just trying to bear it, right? Yeah. Where I got to a place now where I could sit in there for a minute. Oh, I could sit in there. I get out just because like, God, it's been five minutes. I don't need to stay in here any longer. So it's gotten to that place where I can do it that comfortably in. You know, it's interesting about that. I mean, kind of a connected side topic. It is interesting how like genetics play a role in pretty much everything, right? So you may genetically be stronger at an exercise or maybe more prone to endurance versus strength or speed or whatever. I do much better with heat than I do with cold. Like I can go in a sauna and I could do very well right out the gates. Cold is something I should train because I suck at it. I am not good with cold. Not at all. I mean, it's like anything else. I need to train it. It's like the opposite. It sucks. Yeah, you're like that with heat, right? Yeah, it sucks. The thing about the cold that I find interesting is that it sucks every time. There's it has never gotten to the place where I like I go right before I get in, I go like, oh, this is no big deal. Yeah, every time I do every time I do it, I'm like, motherfuckers. And then and then it's that that from the second you get in to that, I don't know, I'd say about a minute to where I settle in. And then I'm like, okay, I'm cool now. But I mean, that first one minute is as equally hard as it was day one, as it is, you know, a year later. Squats. It's interesting how that is. But you get better at the dealing with it and like calming yourself, which is obviously part of what you're training, right? You're training that ability that that's it's always a hard stress. But what you get better at is is calming down quicker and then. So here's why I want to go with that, right? Because people listening, just like when we talk about exercise, people will be like, oh, crap, okay, well, that means I got a because I'm doing nothing now. That means I go sign up at a gym. I got to devote three to four days a week in there. And, you know, I don't know if I have the time, it's a big step or whatever. You can even do this, I just said it earlier, like I this is what I do. So I do, I finished with cold with my shower, I'm taking shower anyway, right? So finished with 30 seconds to a minute with cold. That's one way. Another thing is, like I said, you get in the car and it's cold in the morning, open the sunroof. Just let yourself be cold as you drive to work. Or if it's hot, sit in the heat as you drive home. Like there's little things that we could do that you can do on a daily basis. I think that will train that muscle to acclimate that don't require you to go get a cold plunge or a sauna. I think those are great. And I think especially once you get to a certain level, then you want to just like with with exercise, like, oh, you're not doing anything now. Why don't you do 15 minutes of some air squats, some push-ups, some, you know, pull-ups, and that'll work for a while. And then at some point, you're going to need to get some free weights. I'm going to go ahead and make this easy and sum it all up for everybody. There's a healthy way to expose yourself. Stupid. Stupid. You know, it's like a conversation. This this start cameras above the way. I mean, this starts. This was like this was an like one of the early kind of I don't want to say fight because we even fight over, but the like push pull between Katrina and I with Max because we were this way with our babies right out the gates. Oh, I know. You should show our video as children in Russia. I love it. They put a lot of snow and it's crazy. It didn't matter how many examples I gave her or the science I tried to support my argument. It's like, it's so funny. Like, it's her baby, right? So it's just like she's so defensive about it. Like I'm not allowed. I'm like, listen, it is so good for him to be barefoot and it called out there and like just a t-shirt and shorts. Like it's OK for him to do that. Like, especially if he can handle it. And what's wild is like he'll you'll see him. He's fine. Like he would tell you if he's like really cold, but he's like out there playing even infants. You've seen those videos and I've actually I'm trying to think if we did this or not where you put a baby in the pool and you just and then they naturally just turned themselves up. So I've seen that you've seen that. Yeah, it's just yeah. It's it's interesting. They give birth in the water. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like that makes you like crazy nervous. Like it's oh my God, you know, northern European countries. Though there's videos. You can look them up. I don't know if a country sweet in Norway, maybe. The moms will first off the societies and culture there, the solo crime or whatever. So that just consider that right. But moms will go inside shopping. I mean, it's snowing. It's freezing outside cold. And you see all these strollers parked outside the stores with the babies in the store. They have blankets and stuff, but they're sleeping. Wow. In outside. You know, in like, you know, 15 degree weather. Yeah, you know. And then so Jessica, she understands she knows Russian culture to a certain extent. Her ex husband was from Ukraine. And then she learned Russian. And she, you know, when she traveled to circus, there was a lot of people from Eastern Bloc nation. She said it's customary to when you bathe your baby to finish with a cold rinse. Pure cold. How many people do that to their baby? Kyle's the only guy I ever knew that ever did that. Yeah. Remember Kyle Kingsbury? Oh, yeah. Remember his son used warm water. He had never felt warm water. Yeah. And remember, remember here in the winter, he would be he's going to therapy with older. Yeah, I know. I know you tell. Oh, look at that. There's a look at that. That's funny. Where is that? Norway. Yeah. Would you would you ever see a mom here? Forget about the crime part because that's like that's like a kid. Dappers wet dream. But you could you leave your kid outside like that in the snow. You get the cops called nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. Yeah. Well, the Russian one dug like what? I mean, that's crazy. Kids in school, baby documentary where they showed like how every culture like kind of like deals with like that one that I think it was in the Himalayas where they would just like tied that baby to one of like the beds and they just left like all day. What? You don't remember that? No. Oh, yeah. They're like playing with rocks and dude, it's it's just it just made an example of like how resilient these like little kids are. I just think it's interesting how much we avoid hard. Like it's that's all this stems from is because we have the luxury to bring the child in, turn the heater on or turn it to the temperature down. Look at that. Siberian school. Look what they do. Scroll up, Doug. Oh, right there on the left, the bottom left. Yeah, they're pouring water over their their outside. It's it's snow. OK, ice. This is Siberia. This is not like, oh, you know, a little bit of, you know, a little dust of snow. It's cold over there. This is like break. This is like recess. Not only the outside, they're outside in speedos. Not only the outside in speedos in the snow, they have buckets of water. They're pouring over themselves. Yeah. Do you know what happened if you did that? You know, so OK, now, since you bring this up, what would be really interesting is what would be really interesting, Sal, is to break look up like the kid, their immune system. Oh, and they get sick. They're going to show it. They're going to show it. They do. So show that. I want to see that. They're going to show it. Because to me, that is what will be really interesting about this. So, OK, obviously that's crazy that they do that. Now, the next question is how much healthier are those kids in comparison to, like, let's say, Western nations? I'll show you one. Look up the cancer rates and heart disease rates among the Amish. Look up that. They live the way that we lived a hundred something years ago. Yeah. You know, the cancer rates are like nothing. That low? Like really, really low? Oh, almost non-existent. Why does that? So that's so weird to me, right? Like, cancer is one of the most talked about things, right? Everybody knows somebody who's been hit with it. Like, if we have a group of people, OK, and there's a large enough group, it's not like a pool of a hundred people and you're like, it's a whole community. Yeah, a whole community of people that have the lowest rates of cancer. Why is that not like a constant conversation around, like, there's like, it's so sad, right? It's so sad that we would reject, we would reject them because they live a way that maybe one of us. Yeah, but why would they? They don't, like, imagine all the companies and products that were in the business. I know. That's my point, Dosell. It's so sad that because, because you reject the way they live that you wouldn't at least like, you're investing. Yeah, investigate. What are some of the potential things that are? Now, I know, obviously, there's a lot of things. There's great community there. They're probably low process diet. They're all purpose. They're lean. They don't smoke. Yeah, I mean, you know, ironically, it's a lot of the stuff that we talk about, the blue zone stuff, right? It's a lot of a lot of the things that are. What does it say, Doug? It's a very strong. Yeah. So the overall cancer rate for the Amish is 390 compared to 647 in the population at large. So look at that. What does that mean? 390. I don't know what that means, but it's about half anyway. Yeah. Yeah, it's just really, really low. Scroll down more, Doug, see if there's more articles. By the way, that's where they connected the cigarettes. Look at that. No, it says in that study that doesn't explain all of it. Scroll down, Doug, to. You know what the problem, by the way is, is that they'll also put out articles that will try to counter this kind of stuff because they don't use technology. They don't use plastic. Yeah, they're terrible consumers. They're like the worst consumers in the world. They're out of that whole race. Which is, OK. They make their own shit. So obviously, that's why we did, it's not discussed. So I'm saying to you, it's like every, every lobbyist group in the, in the world is not. They make all their own stuff. What does that say, Doug? The age-adjusted cancer incident rate for all cancers among the Amish was 60% of age-adjusted adult rate in Ohio. I don't know what that is compared to other people. I mean, so they're talking about the Ohio Amish. Yeah. So by the way, did I tell you guys that we bought a piece of furniture from an Amish community? Oh, yeah. Was that like, did you like go there and do it? No. Where we don't think there's any Amish communities around here? Yes, there is. Here? Amish here? I don't think so. Yes. I think most of the Amish in Ohio and Pennsylvania and you guys are trying to buy stuff from them. You're tripping. Look up Amish in California. I don't think so. Well, it might be true. Of course there is. Come on. They listen to Mind Pump right now. They probably do. They have a black market. Are they allowed to? Are they allowed to listen to the? A black market cell phone? Just blasphemy on their horse buggy. There is one, actually. You're right. Where? Let me find out. So it's not silly. Adam, how do you know this, Adam? Well, I mean, it's not. It was actually just an educated guess. Oh, really? To think that there's not a type of person in California. I thought maybe because you guys went to so many churches. Holy tamoli. Salinas. Oh, look, right up the street. I'm on our backyard. Fucking guy makes my point even better, bro. Wow. Right up the road. You could have got to hang out. You probably paid hella money for shipping. Could have drove around the corner. Well, no, I don't know. I don't know where we got it from. I'm going to get some butter. No, Jessica. So how do you know it's Amish? Jessica, because let me tell you. They have certain tags? No, no. Jessica went on. I can't remember the site. Hey, tell me about this. What's that site? Hold on a second. What's that site you go on where people can sell? Real deal or like? Anyway, she went on there. eBay or something like that. She went on there and it was literally Amish made from Amish community, whatever. They sent it to us. And you can see it's handmade. You can see. That's the mantle, right? The mantle. So you can see where they carved out. Brother Ezekiel was just, you know. No, no. So where they carved, there's a groove in it that's carved out because you have to put a two by four and they're to put up against the wall or whatever. You can see that it was done by hand. That's cool. Yeah, right? So tell me more about this. This is great. There's a community in Salinas. That's like. Yeah, it sounds like a small community and they were a break off community from one up in Oregon. OK. Remember I told you guys we should start our own. I mean, maybe we can join. Well, the only difference is. You let it go if you're not honest, you let it go like hang out for the day. I would love to interview some of us and build. You've seen those videos where they build a house house. And we have to have we have to have an honest person who listens who knows to get us connected in there. I would love to talk to somebody there. Maybe if we start putting the podcast on. I don't know. Horse code paper. What do you say? Just have a megaphone like drive our car through. Yeah, you know, like snake oil salesman. Yeah. I mean, so I guess I guess 50% less is a pretty significant. Yeah, but even that data, I've so I've read articles. OK, because remember, we went to where we go, Tennessee. And there were the Mennonites there. And so I just for a little for like an hour that night, I was just reading about because I was so fascinated. Right. And so. And even that is bloated that statistic. So I'll read articles and like, no, no, no. They even try to they even include people who used to be Amish. Yeah, who then live in modern societies and stuff like that. See, this is why I would like to talk to somebody who's there because they might go like, yeah, we have nobody who has kids. Well, you don't say you hear from there. And you're like, if they include that someone who was Amish and then they're no longer or identify as Amish, but then they don't live in an Amish community or some shit, like then those people get wrapped in that category. That'd be really interesting. Freud, like like one of his descendants that really went all in on the consumerism and the psychology behind that and then really pumped that. There's a great culture. There's a great documentary on that. I'm pretty sure that's true. Interesting. Yeah, but it just pervaded everything after like they came up with this entire way of like shuttling people into consumerism. So much of what we think is. You're talking about a very, there's a. You guys talked about this, I think. A long time ago, I brought it up. I think even the Netflix like. A long time ago. In fact, I would like to watch that again. It was such a good, it was such a, it was like, it was definitely like the. How much they impacted our beliefs and stuff. Yeah, when it with the origin of it and the. It was very orchestrated. Yes. It's not like an accident that people just like. Edward Bernays. There we go. That's it. I think so. He was a relative of Freud and he was very instrumental in the advertising movement. Yes. It is about him and it is. So you watch that same documentary. Such a good. I've got to find the name of that. Andrew. Yeah. Hunt it down because I think that. I remember we all watched that. I want to make that a shout out today because that's a much. I think that's like one of those things that everybody should watch. It was mind blowing. Yeah. Because like it's just you see it like that's the root of it all. Really. I mean like you see like how all of our hustle to innovate and I mean the good and the bad. Right. Don't you don't you. I mean I find it really kind of crazy to like we have like quietly like got so much better at advertising to people and stuff like that. Like it's wild to me like how much you get like targeted now with stuff not just targeted what you see what you watch what you consume. Yeah. It's actually like I do. It becomes you. Well not just that it becomes your reality. Look I'll take it back to our space. If people think. Is that it. I believe so. Century of self. Yes it is. Century of the self. No that's 2005 bro. I think this is older than that. I think this is older than that. I'm almost positive that's what it was. It's from a 2002 British. Yes. Oh OK that is it because it was like a BBC. It was it was originally on BBC. Yeah. The one I watched was on BBC. I'm pretty sure this is the. The right one. The Google BBC. This is on his computer. His Google so tarnished for me. Yeah. Don't do that to me. I so much of everything we see becomes our how we compare our reality what we believe is important what we believe is not important. So you would think because of the advertising that buying shit is what makes you important obviously not that's not what makes you happy in fitness you know people think supplements are so impactful when they're. At the bottom of the list of the things that impact you. So it just it just it just is man. What's the answer to not consume I guess. Yeah. Like not consume stuff that's constantly trying to sell you shit. I don't know. Yeah I mean there's some of those like minimalist kind of strategies and people like kind of get into that molecular homes and you know they try to kind of like get off off the grid a little bit and try to figure out the self sustainability approach. And I don't know. I apparently that's that's like on the rise. Well crazy people try to figure out their own farm. Crazy part of the crazy part of those in our entire economy is is based on the fact that that addiction will continue to grow. I know. Yeah. And it would collapse if it doesn't. That's the fucking unfortunate part about. Think about that. Like that's the shittiest part about this is that we were so leveraged in that in that direction that it and we need our eggs are right. We need it to continue to to grow and expand and get worse in that direction. But yet that's the opposite direction we probably should go for corporations you know like and go public. It's like the expectation that you're always going to have growth is like if you don't then you're dying you know you can't ever like. Well let me ask you this like what how many companies you think will go to business if everybody became really healthy. A lot. A lot. Oh yeah. A lot of companies would be gone. Yeah. If people were just like genuinely well I mean what would be how about this. This being an interesting stat to see how many things are literally created to distract us like from reality. Kidding me. Yeah. Think about that. Like how many biggest companies in the world percent of things. Yeah. Yeah. A percent of what like I mean I bet it's a number like that. I bet it's a really high. It's gotten so bad. Okay. That when we were kids it was already bad. We're already in the middle. I mean we were at the. We're already coming close to the peak in the 90s. Yeah. But in the 90s I at least remember standing in line and just waiting. Yeah. Remember. Or you know. The bus stop nobody does that now. You're on your phone. Well even commercials like we were going through yesterday and like you were doing like a quiz with. The. It wasn't commercials it was like the beginning to the. Jingles. Jingles are like you know the beginning to like TV shows. Remember. Like dude that's a lost thing. It's completely evolved and moved into like there's no like real commercial because of streaming. But now they do it in such a sneaky way. Well that's you know it's crazy is that. They don't need that anymore. They don't need it. Because it's you need it like a jingle to get someone to remember before it's like oh don't worry we're going to follow you around all day. Shit's burning my brain forever. I don't need to remember. Yeah. I'll remind you all day. This is why we don't let. So we don't let our kids our little ones look at like a really so we don't let them look at YouTube. Either the way. If you watch it. In my house. I'll try and show him a video like we're trying to learn about polar bears or something. I'll try and show him if I give him the phone. Even if I don't he reaches over to click on the recommended one. And if I let him he goes from one to the other to the other to the other to the other. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Three year old. Yeah. I mean and you're training that. Yeah. Oh yeah. No. It's like those animal studies really give him like a sugar. There's even been things where I accidentally like let Max on it and like instantly we're screwed. We were just to the day this happened. You're trying to pull it away. So because we don't we don't allow YouTube either. And I would he's so he's not using a Mario big time right now. Right. So he's like every time I can he wants to search a new Mario character and so I get on a Google search like Lemmy or you know Lenny or whatever Larry or whatever their names are. Right. And I searched Mario character. And then a lot of times they'll be like a video of the character. Yeah. And so he'll want to watch it and he'll sit in my lap and I'll let one the other day. I'm like he's doing that. I didn't realize was the Google search. Obviously Google owns YouTube. So the video was platformed on YouTube. So just auto put him on YouTube. Me not even realizing then also it kicks to the next video. Still I'm not really paying attention that the next because the next video still is close enough to be just like that. That video that I'm just letting him kind of watch it while I'm talking to Katrina and then like the third video that he gets to is a kid playing the game where that character is in it. He's only three four videos deep. Not only that and the kids fucking cussing. Oh, that's how that's how it got me. That's how it got my attention was because all of a sudden I heard like the F bomb dropped and I'm like, whoa, dude, how did we get here? Like that. Like literally like that. Like I was showing him an innocent Mario character on on on. It did not realize he was on YouTube because like Katrina and I have already made that agreement that no YouTube. So I was just in me brain fart. Like I was just showing him a video of the Mario character not thinking anything of it goes to another one. It's like, oh no big deal. I'm still not thinking about it. Then all of a sudden it's a kid playing it still didn't think much of it right yet. And then all of a sudden you hear the kid, oh mother fucker. And I'm like, whoa, dude, like I'm convinced you guys crazy. You guys remember when they found those videos on YouTube of like Spider-Man and Princess, you know, whatever from frozen inappropriate sexual thing. Yeah. It was like it was all connected. The kids disgusting dude. Yeah. You know, I wonder if it's like, of course, like is it. Kill him with fire. I know where you guys are what you guys are alluding to like it's a like it's like so the strategic like, you know, way to do it. It's hard if it's that or it's just the algorithm feeds the more crazy or people know how the algorithm works. Yeah. And put cartoon characters humping each other. Sure. Sure. Sure. With little kids voices. That's fair. And maybe it's a joke or in their mind or maybe. Right. Right. Like how malicious is it or it's a creep. You know, it's some freaking pedo. Yeah. Wild though, dude. I mean, I just I just shows you how I mean, that's how quick it can get away from me. And I'm thinking because he's sitting in my lap or watching it. And I'm like, oh my God, that's. Hey, I want to ask you real quick. We're going to get her haircut on Monday. We're going for London on Friday. We should have her come a little later. Right. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Let's see if we can do that. And by the way. Yeah. She keeps saying my hair is getting thicker. No. Boom. Boom. I think she's just working. No. I think she's working a bigger tip. That's right. I don't give her a tip. I don't give her a tip. She's like, because like, I'm going to get a big tip. She's been slowly, you know, happening. By the way, I could really tell. Is it a little darker too? I mean, you did the copper thing, right? I did, but in the pet. Okay. So the entera. Mine still get light. So the entera hair stuff. Maybe you should use it. Yeah. Actually. So it's for hair loss, but it also has a peptide that improves copper absorption. Oh, okay. In the scalp, which would help with hair color, but also helps with hair growth or at least prevents it. So how do you guys receive this? Okay. Your wife. So this just happened, right? So Katrina's best friend, uh, bought this product for her husband. So how do you, how do you receive this? If you're, you're, you're the. Obviously. Obviously it's for that. Well, I mean, obviously it is, but like, how do you feel about your wife buys that for you? I mean, I wouldn't care if my wife. You wouldn't. No. You wouldn't make, it wouldn't make you feel like. It's like she gave him boner pills. Like that'd be another. I mean, it's kind of in the same category. I mean here, I found these at the gas station. Penis pump. Yeah. I mean a lot of me, like, you know me, I don't care, right? You know, you don't get the same. And I mean, I got some serious stuff on the phone with you. That's, what, what about SGO. Because that was like, I got some serious stuff, but to me, I was sick, very sick. I don't know. So I was like, well, I'll take it back. Yeah, whatever about, about the Baldwin and. In some of that. Other some, a lot of men that's like, fucking crazy. Like that read it is. Very. Sorry. Yeah. That's a really sensitive spot. I, I didn't realize it until I shaved my head and then people started asking questions and then I, I like that became like for a hot minute there. I bet you followed that number one or not a top three. Yeah, you're right. So it's interesting What is it male pattern baldness is? Yeah, I mean I was I was really I Guess I never really thought about it. Maybe I knew I kind of always knew I was going that direction with my dad I'm a grandfather and stuff But the the amount of DMs that I got around that was really fast. I don't know look guys fellas You know because obviously you're insecure because you don't feel as attractive Lift weight to make money. I think those are the two most Yeah, I mean like that's the move you're gonna outperform the dude with a full head of hair It's like okay, I can't control that whatever but you can lift. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and you can work hard Honestly, that's such the answer and you so many things if you're going through a breakup But like even I was talking to Ethan about this because he's kind of going through this rough patch We're like his friends are clicking up with other friends and he's just sort of like it's always funny with kids Yeah, dude like it and I think it's because so they had this like Sort of traumatic experience because like his other friends were there like mountain biking and one of his friends like broke His leg and they have to take him to ER and then anyways It was like a friend that wasn't really in the group And then they got real tight because of that and then they just sort of started to like snub him out a little bit And so they're making all these plans without and I'm like dude You know forget them like just you know, you be the kid that list weights and You know and gets after it gets strong like it in You know gets confident through that and then and hangs out with the girls You know like now's your time to shine and like you know At least like because that's an awkward thing for a lot of that age group just to be able to interact with the opposite sex And I'm so you mean you're not gonna call the parents and kids and tell them read Hey read lift weights make money little Trump Yeah, you could lose yeah 100% was that there was a meme it was like a guy goes to a gym And he's like which machine is gonna get me the most attention from women and the trainer goes. Oh, this one over What is it a meme it was like a meme oh my god You know what now that you're now they mention it at Justin. I want you to try that the enter a hair the follicle I think what's it called? Because it does Help with copper in the scalp which should help with your hair. So she said the same thing. Yeah, your hair looks darker And it looks so darker for sure. I know that much. Yeah, so now is that what it? Why is that different than you taking like a copper supplement versus like putting on your scalp? Is it more effective to put it on your scalp? I think both of them I think both of them would be good, but if but some people Don't necessarily have a copper deficiency, but the but they're the way that their scalp Utilizes copper. I think yeah is a challenge. Hey speaking of all this like attractive stuff One of you had any notes about the most attractive people in the world. Oh, that's an old one. I'm gonna really bring that up I do I thought that was interesting. I mean, well, it's it doesn't bring it up. It sounds a little biased I'm gonna guess dude Italy. Oh god I didn't do it What a great call you should I shouldn't know that shouldn't know They did a self-selection listen to me study. I didn't do the study. Oh, they did a huge survey huge survey I mean, there's attractive people there. Don't get me wrong of the most who which you're saying that over like Like sweden or brazil, you know what i'm saying? I don't know. That's what the study said They asked people which country has the most the best-looking People in italy won that's all i'm not saying i'm just saying it was it was a study I think the study study was conducted in italy It was conducted in italy by it italy I don't think it times would have said that Honestly, don't think it times would have said that really? Yeah, I think because you're always attracted to a little bit of cars I know that much. They have the sexiest cars. They well, I mean that they do they're good at what they're good at Yeah, not good at anything else though. There's definitely things that they're good at for sure. That's fine You know, that's interesting. I mean, I think they're Intractive, but I wouldn't have thought I would have actually thought something like I would have thought like a swedish Or I would have thought brazilian or I would have thought those are all yeah, let's listen. Here's the bottom line I there's good-looking. I've seen good-looking islander. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean good-looking people everywhere. Yeah, and there's listen There's some ugly fucking. I've know some ugly ass of time Like really really unattractive so you know, hey the the whole the the whole You know build your bank account to get fit like there's so many examples of like super super hot chicks with like just Fug me dude Fug me dude. They literally don't care that they're ugly. You know, not at all. Listen. I I've seen this firsthand I know people I'm not gonna say too much because this person won't know who it is Talking about you stop. No. No. I know who you are, bro. I know people I've gone out with And they are not what you would consider attractive or fit They're not rhymes with reeve and they don't look like they're not quasi moto But not right but within five to ten minutes Their charisma comes out the confidence comes out Magnet. No, we have absolutely a mutual friend like that can pull can pull whatever. He's always been like that You've got a mouth if you have a mouthpiece you have swag or you're successful You have all the confidence like it's funny how that works, right? Like the the worst part of The unattractive part is the insecurity that comes with it if you were confident about it, you'd be totally okay But it's the insecurity that comes with it that actually makes you less attractive male comedians get so much attention Because of their charisma and their humor most of them are hideous and yeah In fact most of them are basket cases Oh damn it drug addicts Same thing the musicians too. I mean, yeah, look at like it's half the folk singers I mean in general that are just like with like supermodels and you're like, huh? Yeah, like how did that happen? Yeah, just just like trolls. I mean at the bottom line is if you're healthy and you're I mean mentally healthy too You're gonna be more attractive. That's the bottom line. And you you know if you're bald, whatever Rock it. Yeah, it never really bothered me. I don't know why I don't know. I don't know Maybe it's because we were all into like athletic, you know performance or muscle building but you know, I always saw Bald jack dudes and I was always like that's cool. Mr. Clean Maybe that's what it's maybe our era was like about like a bald guys were like a like a cool thing around there Vin Diesel remember Bruce Willis. Yeah, exactly. Maybe that's what it is Maybe because we grew up in the Bruce Willis Vin Diesel era. That's why it's like that If we weren't maybe it wouldn't be like that because think of it like a Stone Cold Steve Austin. Yeah, dude You know, that's maybe that's why you don't want to be fat and bald. I think that's a good idea It's it almost looks weird like a Hogan or somebody like that that tries to keep like, you know the bottom half Yeah That is like the worst haircut in the world, dude. How does he pull that off side hair? It's the bandana, dude They like hide the band that was the same thing with uh, um, what's his name the rock of love? Oh, yeah, that guy Bret Hart. Yeah, he would put the bandana and keep the long hair Oh, you know about um, um, it's Brett something from guns and roses poison or poison. That's right. Um, Yeah, that's is is anybody has anybody else besides Hulk Hogan pulled that off like that where he has the sides all hair along like that I think it's his long blonde hair became his trademark. So yeah, they identify too strongly with the the long hair It's like the hermosie with the nose thing now. Yeah, that's what that is that people like trade rock that forever Remember Craig when Craig shaved his head too. Sure. Cut his hair. All right. That was like, we're like, dude Terrible idea He grew back though. He grew back You're the long locks. Dude, I gotta tell you guys want to hear something crazy. I just read this today. Let's hear it. Yeah, so What's what's what do you The guy got a speeding ticket In Georgia, okay, he was going, um 90 and a 55 How much do you think his speeding ticket cost him 90 to 55 in Georgia in Georgia So 90 miles an hour 55 mile an hour speed well once you go over 20 miles You you now are in a new category of reckless and endangerment so they can hit you with that Also, it's called a super speeder ticket. Yeah, so it goes up to like 400 500 bucks 1.4 million dollars. Well, that's not what it's real. No, it's not. Yes, it is Come on south. No, it is real now. I'll explain you why yeah, because they made a law and I guess there's a It's just bankrupt people, I guess 1.4 That's like can't be right. I can't pay this Is it like in proportion to the car you're driving? It's a baghati so you can get hit for that No, so what it is is there's there's a law that be fucked up if that's how when you go 20 mile an hour over the Yes, yes, I'm called the super speeder ticket. Yeah. Yeah, and they said no, it is not a typo They said when in the city of savannah Apparently, there's like a mathematical calculation that happens and this is what happens Oh, sorry over 35 miles an hour speed you get what's called a placeholder day the placeholder Is 999 thousand dollars And then you add other fees it got to 1.4 now what you do is you have to show up to court And then at the judge then assigns you the the amount so I think it's a way for them to get your ass to come to court I don't know. Oh, yeah, so but that's a real thing. Yeah, I'm definitely sure So the dude got so the guy I'm sure he had a heart attack. He got the thing He's like 1.4 and then he called them like no, that's that's that's them out That's insane. You have to show up to court and then the judge makes you interesting. Why like what do you think that is to And it says okay, so it says here the system automatically puts in 999 999 as the base amount plus other costs and since the only way to resolve the ticket Is to appear in court. I think it's for them to make you show up, which is effective So according to this the judge sets the amount and it can't exceed $1,000. That's when he goes to the court once He goes to court. Yeah, but they cannot exceed $1,000. So that's weird, huh? Yeah, it's weird Obviously, they want people in court But they can't like apply that if you don't show up. Yeah, what are you going to jail? Yeah Yeah, literally bankrupt somebody for for a speeding ticket dude. That would be crazy You know that there are a little crazy. There are some countries Maybe you can look this up dog that charge you the the fine is in proportion to the amount speed no to the amount you make Finland home of the $100,000 speeding ticket That's weird. Yeah, they determine it based on your income So, how does it work? Tell me how does it so does it give you the percentage? Yeah. Yeah, like depending on how much you make See that's that would man. That's I mean look 90 percent of people would probably like that right if it was a percentage I mean, well, yeah, because all the people that don't make a lot of money would want that for sure But just and the only people that wouldn't it would be the people that make a lot of money Now what happens if you don't make any money just get for free. I don't know What does that say up there? No key executive as it was a no key executive who got fined $100,000 for going 45 and a 30 Wow Yeah, I'll be so mad too. That's that's I've been taking ubers for you know, does it tell you the percent? It doesn't But yeah, I think this is ridiculous. I mean this overstepping by the government in my opinion. Yeah Oh, yeah, it's like just it's theft basically. Yeah. Oh, you make a lot more ways to grab more I I agree. I think it's terrible. We'll be better as if you could bribe somebody out of a ticket when the other That would be better. I'll give you $50,000. All right You know what makes sense to me. I never understood this everybody's gonna get mad at me But this is just a fact they don't want you to drive fast. Okay The faster you drive obviously, I don't have to argue this you're more likely to kill someone more likely to argue Excuse me an accident Why don't all cars have a speed limiter To the speed limit. Why do cars go past? What is the purpose of cars going past 65 miles an hour besides the consumer? Yeah, what an awful world to live in I get that but why why market these cars? This is why because both sides agree on that The side that's writing the tickets and making all the money. They're not gonna make no money They're not gonna make any money and the side who wants to drive and take the risk of getting caught both Parties agree on that Both parties want you to be able to go faster than what the speed is. That's why that's the there's a whole economy around that Yeah, yeah, like that's the beginning of the month the end of the month or whenever like that one window is Where they have to like tickets. Yeah, everybody. Imagine the black market, too That would happen like of for to make cars go over that. Yeah, I'm just telling you But think about how logical that is it would be so logical the fastest you could go in America Let's say 75 miles an hour. Maybe there's a highway in that communist society You ever watch that video It was from the early. I wish we had an autobahn. That's what I would yeah, so You ever watched there's a video from the early 80s I hope we can find it where they're interviewing people because they're about to pass so this is like 1981 They're about to pass a drunk drive Like you can't drink and drive law And they're interviewing people in this town and the fucking funniest shit like people are like I thought this was america. I can't even drink a beer on the way I've seen that they're all pissed off. Oh, oh the commies are taking over like I was laughing so hard like I guess we sound like a gun rack with I like to drink a nice beer on my way home Shoot squirrels on my way home. All right. I got something to talk about because we're bringing up caldera. Yeah And uh, they have a page on they have a page on their website Where they highlight all the studies That they've done on their product In all the studies, this is great. Now. These are good studies 96 percent of the people who used it reported healthier looking skin 91 reported smoother looking skin Uh, 89 showed better radiance 85 showed more even skin tone 87 saw reduction in fine lines and wrinkles. This is on their website. These are real studies So it's all radiance. I like that great product. You could go. We'll put it in the show notes here You could see this. This is a 30 day study So it's within a month also has to be of all the partnerships we have tell me it's not the most surprising one that you would I mean, especially for dudes. They're we just had them to the other day like they they renewed for You know what it is next year. You know what it is. Is their return rate is crazy Can people use it and that's it? Well, that's why look at what you just highlighted 90 percent of people reporting So like that, I mean there's not a lot especially like products like that. There's a lot of like gimmicky Skin hair types of like like to get a 90 plus percentile of people reporting They notice a positive benefit in any direction. I mean that's pretty That's pretty impressive. It's almost all of them. Yeah, pretty well. All right. So the shout out then is going to be the documentary the century of the south Edward Bernays documentary so on youtube. It's on youtube. That's the original one. Yes. That was originally on bbc That's the one I was talking about highly for sure worth watching that One of the best on the go snacks. I've ever had is from paleo valley. It's a meat stick. It's not dry It's delicious. It's grass fed beef It's got great macros long shelf life because again, it's packaged. It's wonderful. It tastes great I take it with me anytime I travel to get protein Go check it out. Go to paleo valley.com forward slash mind pump use the code mind pump 15 And get 15 off your first order. All right back to the show Our first caller is Kayla from Georgia. Hi Kayla. How can we help you? Hey guys, this is super cool. Um, and I appreciate it very much. Thank you. We appreciate you Yeah, so I've been I've been listening to you guys for a few years now And uh, it's my favorite definitely my favorite fitness podcast. I've tried a few others But I keep kind of coming back to you guys. So this is this is cool. Um So I guess into my question is I'm 32. I've been weightlifting about five years Um, I got relatively strong in my deadlift and bench press comparison like to my weight Um, but I always felt weak in squats basically Um, and I had some confidence issues that were related to that. I'm sure Um, just not feeling comfortable under the bar. I done okay and like a Like a goblet squat or even like a zurcher squat type anything that was in front of my body I felt a little better than I'm loading my back. Um On top of that probably in the last year my mobility has gone down quite a bit Um, and I had thought I had some maybe bad habits Maybe it was squat form or just forms in general. So I kind of wanted to Want to put reset, right? So I started with the Map starter program. I kind of started over. Um And went through that but I don't know if that's probably the best way to do that Or if there's some other options and then how do I kind of build confidence In my squat as I'm kind of Resetting and making good of pattern habits and things like that. Great question. Yeah. Now if you were consistent All the way up until map starter Um, then what you want to do is identify the mobility issues and stability issues focus on those And maybe do a different program starter and symmetry. Yeah, so starter is really good for as is for beginners, right? So Uh, people without strength training experience or people who've taken a long Uh, you know layoff a long period off, but if you've been training this entire time Um, then there's a variety of programs. I think would be good for you But we'd want to identify what those issues are. You mentioned mobility. Maybe you can go into a little more detail What do you feel the tightness or issues? Uh with the squat? So I have tightness kind of in that. Um I guess maybe my hip flexor and into that glute and then I feel when I have weight on my back I feel Like I can't go down all the way. Like I'm actually going to fall forward. Oh, okay. Okay in that Can you can you try something for me? Um, right now Can you do a body weight squat and then I'm gonna have you change your form and we'll try something else I don't need to see you. I just want you to try it on your own So go ahead with your feet flat good. Come on up now get up on your toes So stand up on your toes now squat with on your toes. Let me know if you can go down a little further Probably a little bit further. Yeah, it's probably ankle mobility. Then that's the issue So, uh, you might have some tightness in the ankle So when you get down towards the bottom of a squat, uh, if the ankles lack mobility It'll want to throw your body forward Maps prime pro has some really good foot and ankle mobility movements And I would practice those daily, but you know twice a day for 10 minutes a day each time And that that'll make a significant impact on your mobility and then as far as your workout plan is concerned Because of your experience, um, you could do like map symmetry Adam suggested I think that would be a great program. Yeah while working on mobility because it's all unilateral The last phase gets you back into barbell squats So by the time you get to the last phase If you've been working on ankle mobility along with the unilateral training from from symmetry You should notice a significant improvement in your squat Okay, and that would help because I wonder I wonder some of ability had to do with imbalances and symmetry I guess would fix that as well if that is the case. That's why Adam said that for sure Yeah, I I mean, I think I think we're all gonna agree on this I also think I want to point out too and I love that you shared this is that It's actually not uncommon to be like that in a squat too. It's I mean, it's uh, Putting weight on your back. It's like the that of all the exercises. It's like it's crushing you So there's definitely a Mental block that a lot of us have when we get into a movement like that where Not only do you lack maybe some ankle mobility with an addition of that You have this this weight that's bearing on the back of your shoulders It's kind of scary on how do I get out of this if it doesn't work out? And so there's there's a couple things that are at play here And I think that working on the ankle mobility and doing symmetry Uh while you're doing like the maps prime pro, I think you're gonna see a big difference In that by itself. So that's where I'd go to yeah for sure There's definitely a little bit of nuance there too like if uh, you know, the position of the bar on your back You might want to kind of play around with as well Uh, I know that's a very common one lean forward and that's like feeling like you know, your body's kind of like Going down into that kind of forward position. So the ankles will help kind of Address that but also too like to to readjust where the bar placement is on your back What's a good point just center your um, yeah your your your balance there? So I think we I don't know if we have done a video I'm pretty sure we have on a low bar squat Have we have we taught the difference between a low bar and a high bar squat on the thing on youtube? I'm sure we have I think we have I'm pretty sure you can go to mind pump tv and look up low bar squat And uh, justin's right when you have a tendency to want to fall forward a little bit, um, and Granted, I think that what salfer said with the ankle mobility. That's addressing the root cause So that's definitely but what justin's suggesting is while you're also doing that you could also play with the bar bar placement Which will help with that feeling of falling over in fact I have I had a very similar issue because I had ankle mobility issues And so I used to only be able to low bar squat For that reason I because I had a tendency to kind of fall forward a little bit So I'd put the bar lower on my back Which does allow you to come forward a little bit and still be comfortable And then while I worked on my ankle mobility I got to a place where I could start to put the bar higher up on my tracks It might require a little more shoulder mobility to get it a little bit lower too, so Okay, yeah, just just kind of try it out. Yeah Yeah, so I think that'll be those will both help Yeah, now do you have either one of those prime pro or symmetry? I have prime. I think I don't know that I have prime pro Okay, and I thought the bundle with the map starter that had maps 15 Okay, it was the bundle a few months ago. Awesome. Well, we'll send you symmetry and prime pro So you'll you'll have both of them Yeah, that's that's awesome. I appreciate you guys very much. This helps me I did feel when I started starter. I was kind of like, oh, did I kind of I felt bored maybe You've been working out for a while. So of course, you know, you're doing that That would be a good program for you if let's say you had you got injured and you couldn't work out For a while or something like that and then I would jump back in Yeah, or you just took a break for say two or three months as far as confidence with squats is concerned As this starts to improve for you And you start to address those issues the best way to get Proficient and confident in a lift. It's a practice it often And so squatting you can squat very often you would have to modify the intensity So once you get to the point where you feel good and like, okay I think I address the issue everything feels balanced now You can squat three four days a week. You just you know, maybe one or two of those is kind of hard The other the others are just easy just going through the motion and just perfecting the technique Nothing will get you confident like Frequent practicing of a movement I mean if if we were to keep going in this direction in the conversation I would actually after you go through prime pro and symmetry and work on angularly I think actually max maps power lift if you want to get proficient at the squat That's probably the best practice you'll get for yeah, you'll get a lot of practice in it So if you if the goal is like hey, I I I want to get good at the squat That's sounds like you're really good at the deadlift bench press and other exercises If you want to get really proficient at it Then I think symmetry and prime pro work on that really good after you get done with symmetry Then power lift would be a fun program to follow and then don't listen to any other fitness podcast again All right, we got we got you they're boring and wrong Yeah, thank you guys No problem. Yeah, I like her Why did you leave the first place? Yeah, yeah, yeah, which one of us said something? Yeah, you're always like, let me see you. It sucks. Let me come back. Um, you know, it's uh That test that I did with her who did that to us was a branch of brink. Yeah I was such a like mind-blowing. You know at that point I'd been training people for two decades, right? And he's like squat and then I did and then he goes all right now stand on this He puts up under my heels. Yeah, and he goes now squat and I went all the way down. He goes. It's your ankles. Oh my god Increased like 20 degrees Maybe huge huge. I mean after our experience with brink I became like a foot and ankle nerd Like that's all I looked at. I wasn't actually angry because I was meaning you focus on that. I had all Yeah, there isn't a single bit of training I got no certification talking about the feet None of the certifications I had even my corrective exercise specialist I don't remember ever going into the ankle The furthest I would get was the hips. Yeah, everything was from the hips. I did nothing about the foot and ankle, of course Yeah, blew me away having being taught that too and then realizing like wow How many people like this is the limiting factor right here and then like that simple adjustment or fix Like all of a sudden solves the issue. Our next caller is michael from toronto michael. What's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call Uh, so first off I just wanted to say how much I really appreciate you guys And the perspective that you guys bring to your podcast and how relatable it is Just a bit of background on me. I'm I'm in my 40s Like sal it got four kids and trying to keep fitness a priority while coaching the kids sports teams and everything I find that Listening to you guys and getting to listening on your conversations really kind of helps to keep things in perspective a lot So so in addition to thanks for all the content that you guys Provide fitness wise really appreciate that perspective. Thanks, man. Awesome Anyway, my uh, my question is specific to the landmine rotation exercise that's in phase two of maps performance um So when I watch the male demo The way he does it he gets his feet planted and he kind of rotates his torso from side to side And then when I watch the female demo She kind of keeps her her torso stationary and it almost is like that side to side shoulder press and then when I have done it in the past I've always kind of like Pivoted off of like my back foot. So my so I'm kind of rotating it even more And I've listened to you guys enough to know that you're probably going to say like there's no wrong variation necessarily But I was hoping to kind of hear your perspective on like What are the pros and cons of doing it in the various different ways and like what's the best way to apply? Great question. Yeah, great. Great question. Hey, who is who was the female who who's the model on that one? Who was uh kindra. I believe oh was kindra, huh? Yeah, um, yeah So yeah, like you said, there's there's multiple variations to it. Um Now in terms of like the actual Um benefit from it a lot of times I'll anchor for the most part and keep my hips kind of square and fixed So that way I'm I'm have a bit of anti rotational effect to that with my lower half And then I'm I'm rotating across so I can engage, you know, my core a bit more that way Rotating with it is is a little bit more. I would say functional in terms of like Athletic yeah pursuits with that. So I I kind of go between both of those Uh, and and this is actually like brings up a good Discussion in terms of like, you know male female models and like kind of our programs There's little nuances and things that people do that aren't necessarily wrong, but are a little bit different and and to um They uh, and I'm kind of trying always to explain like, you know, if we standardize it completely You know, that would that would clear up a lot of confusion But at the same time like it's not wrong necessarily It's just a different application to that same exercise. So this is one of those instances Where, you know, depending on kind of the intent going into that exercise what you want to get out of it It could be a little bit more of an athletic pursuit with like kind of a more fluid rotation with that or it could be More of a a twisting opposing Contraction to that I I literally this is so I train both So with my clients and the way I always decided who who was going to get what like version of this Almost always my athletes I rotated the foot Because an athlete when they're playing a sport, they're never in this like very few sports Are they in this fixed trunk position while spinning or throwing their torso, right? So I want to emulate as much of the type of movements that they would on the field or the court or whatever So I would incorporate the pivoting of the foot and the hips all together If I was training general population Clients that just want to be strong healthy fit. I actually like the trunk still The reason for that is for the anti rotation properties that justin is saying it's like I'm really I'm trying to bulletproof their core I want them to be able to reach back while their kids are in their car seat And be able to feed them and then come back so their trunk is in a stationary position They're going to spin back and come back and they're not going to hurt themselves doing something Or they're going to be in their garden and they're going to be grab grabbing a wheat And they're going to pull a wheat to the left and their feet are going to be planted in the same direction And so I'm looking to bulletproof Their core and protect them with the kind of anti rotational properties that they get by keeping their Their hips or their hips locked in that place But yes, neither want not neither one is right or wrong It's really like what's the desired outcome that I want from the the client that I have here. I'll I'll simplify, okay More than that. I was pretty simplified Tell me might be honest if he simplifies that Look, uh, the female version counter So I'm going to tell you what they are and then what you want to use them for okay Counter rotation is the female version. The male version is rotation And then the full extension versions where you complete the kinetic chain. All right. Here's the application Okay, if you want to reduce injury Counter rotation for stability if you want to develop your obliques with hypertrophy You do the rotation version and then the Completing the kinetic chain is literally if you want to perform better In on the field or in a sport. So there's your three right there. Do I want to develop my obliques? Do I simply just want to increase stability and reduce injury? Or do I want to get faster and better at rotation on the field? So those are your three options. So you could pick whoever gave you the best answer That's not bad either That's not bad. All you do is add one. I didn't have a bit of a follow-up question though In terms of like just rep ranges and like when to go heavy and when to go light Like any advice in those terms? Yeah, I think so with an exercise like that you're you're you're if you can do it controlled That's gonna be this that's gonna be the standard Explosive is great for athletic pursuits. Now if you do an explosive, thank you Thank you. Yeah, if you do it explosive It's about the speed and the control. It is not about how heavy you can go Yeah, so if you want to really load it and challenge yourself you want to anchor yourself So that's the one where we have the fixed hip position. You're rotating with that anti rotational and if you're going fast if you're doing for the explosive Benefits don't do it to fatigue You want to maintain the same rep speed throughout the whole set once you find the rep speed slow down You're done with the set because then you're not training explosive power anymore. You're just training stamina Which you can train stamina, but there's better ways to do it than going explosive and then fatiguing And if I'm going to use sal's analogy if I was trying to develop hypertrophy in my obliques I'm going to go heavy in control. Yeah, that's it. If I'm trying to be more athletic I'm going to go light and and fast Yeah, it's all about the full move. So and and obviously we're we're over generalizing this whole exercise because Every variation builds muscle every variation is going to put to protect you rotationally every rotation Every variation is going to make you a little more athletic But if we were to really like break this down like you're kind of asking us to do That's kind of how we look at it as how we're pursuing it with a client Gotcha Yeah, that's it man. I hope that answers your question. Do we do a good job? Do we do a good job? No, that's perfect. Thank you. Good. That's a good question. Yeah, nobody's asked something like that I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate that. Thanks, Michael Great. Thank you. You got it That's fun. It's fun to talk about because we talk about variations and exercises for hypertrophy all the time You know narrow grip wide grip, you know more inner outer. These things are subtle too This is more subtle and it's fun to talk about because uh, I think especially for trainers and coaches listening Because uh, it's not as apparent. It's not as easy to see what the difference is black and white or the application Um, but uh, you know, you could take an exercise and you can make it more athletic quote-unquote or more hypertrophy based or more protective from a stability standpoint and uh, what we said with those three variations you can almost apply similar Uh philosophies to lots of different movements. Yes to produce those types of results I the reason why I like this question is because this for the listener I hope they pick up on this. Like this highlights how toxic our space is and how easily You can take a movement and try and shit on another person who's teaching or coaching some of that because There is so many variations to so many movements and there are Better applications for and in the same sentence. They all compliment a lot of times what what the person might be saying So it's like that's why this is like so much more nuanced and like oh that person's wrong the way they're teaching it This is the right way. It's like well I it depends. I mean and and I think you've said before Sal like any exercise that you can perform Uh with good control and stability. It's not a bad exercise So as weird as it may seem or how unique it is to the way somebody else does it If you can do it with good control and good form. It's a good exercise This is a this is a hard subject though for a lot of people because everything is so dogmatic Especially like when you go to learn something and be instructed on something They're gonna say it just one way and this has to be on yeah Show them a jefferson curl. That's the exercise. I would love to do in a gym and watch all the trainers you head Oh, what's he doing? Yeah, not even knowing right our next caller is dean from oregon. What's up, dean? How can we help you? Super stuff Yes, there we are uh, so questions um I understand that all of your max programs are suited for either Cutting or bulking or maintenance like you can do it anything Uh, you can do it any way you want but if you had to pick What Ones would be best for bulking or maintenance. We literally just did it specifically. Yeah Yeah, we don't answer about this. Yeah, it's been a good year. Yeah, we just we just recorded it. Yes Common question is a single topic. Is this a single topic hasn't dropped yet? Yeah. So I got an answer for you dean okay Okay, uh maintenance. Let's let's cut that one out cut or bulk. Okay. Um, when you're going to switch Into a cut or a bulk The maps program that is most different from what you're currently doing will be the best one for either one So you want to introduce you want to introduce novelty when you switch into a cut or when you switch into a bulk because The novelty is going to in the cut maintain the most muscle or in the bulk help build the most muscle So that's it. That's pretty much it now among those, you know We have some that are more athletic minded more bodybuilding minded. That's up to you Um, but that's it. That's pretty much it. Are you a high reps guy or low reps guy? Yeah, I got the uh power lift and split and uh, this is I I had a little more grace, uh weight wise because we just got back from uh, we went two weeks in Hawaii and then two weeks of hunting So as the kids say I was living my best life and kind of uh, went a little ham So I don't have as much room to play with on that Uh, but so that's why I didn't know if I should cut Switch to main or what was the best scenario for for it? Yeah, so those two so it okay You haven't been training for the last two weeks, right four weeks four weeks It's been often I like we there was about a week difference between the hunting in uh, Hawaii, but Yeah, the training has not been ideal for the last month. So, okay Someone's in this position. I like to always go after building muscle and bulking first Just because you're gonna get the benefits of you've you've lifted in the past before you've taken time off The body is primed for you to want to build muscle. Let's feed it and give it what it wants Even though you may feel fluffy or a little more weight than you like I still would I would start in a bulk Yeah, just a small one But I would start with a calorie surplus and stimulating to build muscle and I would do that And now maybe you only do that because you're an experienced lifter for one phase So and so let's say we run maps anabolic and I go, okay, I put you in a calorie surplus Let's run maps anabolic in a bulk and then maybe by phase two or phase three. I transition you into a cut So the the the key is anytime I transition a client from a bulk or cut doesn't matter which one I want a novel stimulus now a novel stimulus can be different exercises It can be different rep ranges the more novel the better So an example of even more novel would be you're running maps anabolic for a bulk And then you run a program like maps performance for a cut because it's so different exercises There's different adaptations like we're going after endurance Like there's a lot of different stuff in there. So it's going to be very novel and to Sal's point The novel stimulus is the best for building muscle and is the best for holding on to muscle So the best thing you could do is to stick in one and then when you transition the diet You also transition what you're doing program wise For the full program or for It's up to you each phase. It's up to you. You can mix and match. Yeah. Yeah How long do you plan on bulking for? Like two to ten. I'm not like 192 right now. So to ten is about where I start to feel like I need to cut back down Well, you could do you could do a good clean bulk for the for the entirety of maps anabolic then You could even do this right? We could go we go all day on how the different ways you can do this Like if you're like, uh, I want a bulk, but I don't want to get like two I don't want to put too much So go three weeks in a surplus then run one week of a maintenance or a deficit Then go three weeks of a surplus one week of a maintenance or deficit through the whole program of maps anabolic Like literally do that. I would do that. And then and then reverse that when you go into the next program So go three one verse So so then go to math performance and go three weeks in a cut with only one week into a maintenance or a surplus Then three weeks. So you get what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's a great strategy For what you're basically asking so even though there's other ways to do it. I like to do it that way That's that's amazing. Yeah, uh, yeah, it was just hard to tell because like You never know like when you start getting a little fluffy It's hard to like just keep going with that Even though, you know, it's like you want to just cut back down to get Get the the the most no if you do it if you do a proper bulk where you're maybe 500 calories over Maintenance and you start lifting what you haven't been doing You're gonna get lean. You're probably gonna get a little leaner at the same time One of the reasons one of the reasons I like to go that way too is because when I'm off the diet or I go on vacation Not only do I put on bad weight, but I also miss my protein intake And there's and there's memory going on too because of a six pass And so what ends up happening is I put on say 10 pounds Let's say over a like a crazy vacation trip But what's even worse is I put on 10 pounds on the scale But I actually lost also five pounds of muscle that happens all the time to people because they Over consume on you know, let's say bad calories and they under consume on nutrient dense calories And they're not training and they're not training. So I love to go on a bulk like let's feed the body what it actually wants Let's send a muscle a muscle building signal and make sure I'm getting adequate protein So that real quickly the body will respond and I'll normally put on that five pounds that I lost That five pounds of muscle comes back on really quick just by feeding the body the protein intake it needs And stimulating again and so quickly my metabolism starts to rebound And I'm already starting to feel better even though I'm in a surplus I already see my body shaping up differently Which is a very positive thing and then that sets you up for a better cut than if you were to go right into a cut right now How far should you push your your bulk before you think like you think just one It's more about it's it's more about how it's more about how you feel eating wise And how you feel with that weight on your body, right? So I think sows I've heard talk about this before he knows when he gets You know a little over 215 220 his body starts telling him like that's it doesn't matter even if it's good way Even when he looks sure it doesn't feel comfortable there. So that's like his sign to come out Mine is like about 230 I get over 230 and it's like my body wants to start like 315 So And then the and then the other variable is Eating like like another thing reason why I like to come back down when I start getting a butt is like It just takes a lot of calories for me to maintain that weight. So if you're like, man, I'm stuffing myself And I feel like I feel uncomfortable like that's a pretty good sign that I'm higher than I need to be It's time to go the other direction. So it's really dependent on the person Roger Roger that yeah, uh Yeah, I wish uh wish I would have got this message in a couple days earlier. It's okay, bro You're good. No big deal. Yeah. Yeah, you're good now. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Yeah. All right Dean All right, thank you guys so much. You guys are amazing. Thanks man. Thanks for blowing in Such good energy. Do you say love you? He did he did. He did. He's a very happy Happy nice guy. We didn't give him anything, but I don't feel like he needed anything. No, he seemed excited Yeah, I think he just wanted I mean, that's a good question too. I mean, I feel like we get that all the time I can't wait for that. We can just refer to that. I know. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. I covered the basis Yeah, I mean the bottom line is if you're trying to cut or you're trying to gain the the priorities muscle Whether you're trying to maintain it or build it. It's always the priority. So that's the goal with the workout I mean, does this not highlight to you like how well Like people have been marketed to for so long. Of course. Oh, yeah Do you know what would happen if we came out with a maps bulk? I know we're a maps cut We might have to And include diet with it or something because I get watch we're gonna get dms now. Please make that Yeah, and I get it. I get why people want it. They want it. They want to have the full Tell me everything I need to do within this program. So you just need like a different design It's so funny like applications people say that they want that Right, and then you tell them that and then they go find somebody else who said something Well, Brett Contreras says this or Lane Norton says this is it's like, well, you asked for a very specific answer I gave it to you even though I could tell you that it depends and everything is nuanced Then you're gonna go back and hold it against me that someone else said something different. It's like You can't win our next caller is britney from california. Hi britney. How can we help you? Hello So first off just like everyone else. I want to say how much I appreciate you guys in this podcast I came from climbing full-time. So going into a normal gym Was very intimidating for me So I just want to say you guys have made me feel a lot more confident going into a pretty intimidating space Awesome. Great. Yeah, just want to appreciate that. So onto my question I've been doing an anterior slash posterior full body split for the last two months And just to kind of switch up from my usual five-day split of you know quads glutes push pool a little bit of cardio in there And I feel like the majority of women really love their leg days And I don't coming from climbing background. I love my upper body days. So this split has been a pretty Fun switch up from the usual would just sprinkling in some legs But something I've been struggling with is just whether or not I'm getting enough recovery with doing anterior and posterior days back to back And I do have a low steady-state cardio day in between that block But I still just worry if this is even sustainable And if I'm getting enough recovery So the overarching question is when does the anterior posterior full body split Make sense to implement and how do you ensure that you're getting enough recovery? There's a lot of factors that by the way climbing is way scarier than a gym There's a there's a lot of factors that will contribute to Recovery and your body's ability to adapt. So it's hard. It's it's typically not just the split, right? So what does your workout look like for the week? Let's start there So let's start with Monday and let's go all the way through the the last workout of the week Yeah, so Monday I usually start as any anterior then the next day is a posterior Wednesday low steady-state cardio Thursday anterior Friday posterior and then Saturday Maybe another low steady-state cardio day and then a recovery day on sunday usually And how many how many sets are you doing per body part on that? Um Probably about four sets for the first three exercises, which are usually compound So okay, and so so let's so anterior you're looking at quads for example, okay How many how many sets for quads would would you do on that day? um probably Six to eight Total probably so that would be 12 to 16 for the week right because you're gonna double that Yeah, okay. Okay. And now why are you asking about recovery? What are you noticing? Are you noticing that you're feeling like you can't recover? Well, you're getting a little sore Yeah Well, and especially you know going from an anterior day the day before and then trying to go hard on you know My other leg Exercise the next day. It's like man I feel like I'm really not able to put out what I would want to the next day Since I'm still using some capacity of my legs, of course What led you to want to do a split like that where you split the front to back just for the audience Who doesn't know what anterior posterior means to so what made you do that? Yeah, it was really just the variety for me and not loving the full-on leg days I found myself dreading it just going in and having to annihilate my legs So I like just kind of sprinkling it in along with upper body So then I was just overall excited to have that day in general. Yeah, I think I mean, I think you're gonna love maps anabolic I'd love for you to run maps anabolic and you're gonna get exactly that You're gonna and you're you're only really doing, you know one Main exercise for your legs every day It's gonna be like a big compound lift like the neither squad or three full body workouts a week with trigger sessions on the days in between But you know, okay, so there's a couple ways you do this I think Adams wrote a maps anabolic would be great for you if you're feeling like you're over trained and starting to get burned out You probably are Where you probably are going too hard too often There's a now with the current split you have there's a couple ways you could do it You could lower the volume you could lower the intensity you could alternate either so it could be something like Monday hard Tuesday easy Then you go back to Thursday easy Friday hard so each So the anterior day once a week is hard and once a week is easy And the posture day workout during the week since there's two of each One of them is hard is one of one of them is easy and you want to pair hard and easy hard and easy Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Okay, so that's one way that's one way to play around with what you're currently doing Um, now that's without me knowing all the details You and it would take a long time for me to go through your workout and look at everything But that's without me knowing any other details Um, I I bet you if we send you maps at a ball and you just follow that it'll blow your mind I think if you do that, you're gonna be like, okay This is a total game changer So if we send that to you will you follow it? Oh, absolutely. I've been thinking about it forever. So done deal Let me send that to you do the advanced version, which is three days three full body workouts Do the trigger sessions in between and you and you'll be set We could patch whatever you're doing together, but I think this will like totally set you straight totally Sometimes too, even though we didn't address this sometimes recovery too has So has to do with what you're doing nutritionally like or sleep Yeah, of course, right? So if uh, I don't know if you're in a calorie deficit right now Are you good about hitting your protein intake? What does that kind of look like? Yeah, I definitely I definitely shoot for um, I think like a gram of protein per pound of body weight Like that's definitely a big focus, but I have been kind of in a deficit through through the summer So you're more likely to over train When you're in a deficit, although a surplus won't cure every every hard workout. That's right. So So it does make a difference But the workout makes a big difference also it must be interesting for you because I've I've trained climbers before Oh, really? Yes, I have and to be to be successful at you know, bouldering or climbing You essentially need to have uh, very mobile Small legs and very strong, uh, you know hands upper body back In order to perform really well. How long did you climb for the weight ratio is going to be? Probably about eight to nine years Yeah I bet I bet you got really strong hands from doing that Yeah, yeah, I did and that's in my back and my upper body I think that's also why I'm just partial to it because it's something that you know I've been strong at for a long time And so yeah, it definitely makes a lot sense why I struggle with my with my leg days But I also think there's massive potential because of that That's what's got most women actually struggle with upper body strength And since you've done such a good job of building that I think legs will will respond and grow and develop So if you modify maps and a ball at all what I would do is take some volume from the upper body Exercises and throw it to the lower body stuff. So literally if it says You know, uh, three sets of rows three sets of bench press three sets of overhead press You could do two sets of each Take that extra set of each exercise and throw it on your squats Or your deadlifts or you know, your lower body exercises That way if you're looking to balance things out because like I said, I've trained climbers And after years of climbing you do develop a body that looks like you climb which is small lower body You know muscular upper body. So that's that'd be one way to modify But even if you followed it as laid out, I think it'll blow I mean honestly my recommendation would be follow it as As it is for most people is like follow it exactly how we laid it out Because I think you're going to learn a lot and get a lot just from that And then when we come back around and do it again, I would I would make modifications Based off of what you said to me Like man, I really wish my legs would come up even more than I would go exactly what Sal said Yeah, but you'll see some real good strength gains in your lower body from that program Awesome. Okay. So yeah, I will definitely do that. I have one little question about that So when would you recommend for someone to do a split like this? You know Here's the interesting thing about splits. Okay Here's when they start to make sense When okay full body three days a week generally is best for most people period end of store It's like 85 of people We'll do best on that when when it becomes Advantages to break the body up even more is when those full body workouts get really long So, you know, if you're if you've got like really good recovery You're doing a sprint in terms of adding volume to your workouts And now you're doing the whole body, but you're doing like nine sets per body part I mean, you're in the gym for an hour and 45 minutes Then it starts to make sense to kind of break things up So this is why you see bodybuilders train that way. Um, you know, typically Yeah, it's a bodybuilder type of training, right? Yeah It's not that it builds more muscle. It's just that they're they train with such high volume And they're also Extremely committed to never missing and what we have found from training clients and ourselves is, you know Vacation comes around the corner. Oh, I got sick last week There's less flexibility So when you miss a day in a split it really It fucks up the routine. It's like, oh man, what do I do? Do I pick up where I left off or do I start over again? And so and what ends up happening most often than not people tend to skip to things They don't want to do and they just do more of what they like to do Which is not necessarily what they need to do And so when you run a full body routine You can miss you can miss two of the days in the week and you still are hitting the body evenly And so you'll see this nice balance in that person's physique And so I think that's part of the reason why people are so successful on a full body in comparison to a split You'd overdo it with your legs, especially if that's something you don't train all that often Like I know for me I had to had to transition from split to Full body was great because now it's like I didn't I have a tendency to kind of get in and crush the workout And I did too much and that to the point where it affected my next workout So, you know to spread it out a little more evenly like that really helped Yeah, okay. Awesome. Cool. Thank you guys. We're sending that over to you, Brittany. Thanks, Brittany Thank you. All right. Got it I try I train one dude who is a rock I train a young lady too is rockland I train a few people. I never I'll never forget. I shook his hand. Yeah, I know And uh, I I right when I shook his hand. I said do you climb you rock climb? He's like, how'd you know? I mean because he had like Ben Greenfield. Yeah. Yeah, and it wasn't just this It wasn't his forearms. Although those were muscular. It was his finger. It's his finger That's like that's like finger to you can feel the whole Ben Greenfield's hands feel like you're shaking a shaking a six foot eight 300 pound dudes hands That's what his hands feel like but he's on what a what a hundred. What does he weigh 180 pounds 180 pounds at best But his hands his hands are all the big old sausages and the calloused up and yeah, no, totally Yeah, but yeah, but I mean but to be a good climber. It's like it's all upper body size. It's lower body Great great advantage though for a female client because that tends to be one of the more difficult Upper body strength is really hard. You're right. They will develop and this is a fact less common Women develop lower body muscles Better than they do upper body muscles. Yes. There's a disparity between men and women in the whole body But the lower body is a smaller disparity Oh, I I don't know if you guys remember this I know I've had lots of female I had a lot of female clients that could out Perform a lower body than my male clients. Yeah, I mean there's not a lot of clients that I trained that were The men that would crush some of what my my female clients could do on the leg press and squatting and stuff like that So you can as a female you can really develop the legs and so the fact that that's a Her weak area is also means lots of opportunity for building muscle Yeah, good point Look, if you like mine pump head over to mine pump free.com and check out some of our fitness and health guides They're free. They cost nothing. Check them out. You can also find all of us on instagram. Justin is at mine pump Justin I'm at mine pump to stefano and adam is at mine pump adam