 Recording in progress. Is this something not on the agenda? I'm a citizen of Randolph So my name is Murray Smith, I'm a local resident I'm a physician and I I had an experience last Friday here locally that to me pointed up basically in our rescue system some elements that we have in place that work well and it also pointed up the glaring missing piece that we need to pay some attention to and that's why I'm here. I think I understand my time is limited and you have lots of other things to work on tonight and I'd be happy to expand or return or whatever is appropriate. I'm asking if you want me to say more or return and be happy to do whatever is appropriate. I guess can I just follow up? Yeah in other words I don't want to derail your meeting I'm sure you have plenty on your agenda to start with. What you're hoping to get to the committee is recommendations of things you want us to consider. Yeah well I could kind of zero in. Yeah I'll try. Yeah that's what I'll try to do. So we had a situation with an unresponsive, I would call them a patient because that's my perspective of the position. An unresponsive patient on the side of the road here in town and my attention was called to to the patient. I you know I do what we do check for responsiveness, pulse breathing called 911 followed their directives pretty soon Scott was there Narcan was administered the patient became responsive a little bit later was able to stand and converse and was counseled a little bit by the EMTs. Scott offered me reassurance that a job well done said that their their policing duties were accomplished and they would be leaving shortly said that the EMTs would be spending a little more time with the patient and then the their duties if the patient was alert and able to walk and show some reasonable judgment that their duties would be considered complete. So then at that point I turned around and Scott and his colleague drove off and then shortly thereafter the EMTs drove off and I looked for the patient and I did not see the patient and here she was a bystander in all of this and so here's the an hour sitting there looking at each other and saying what what do we do what's what's appropriate and the good fortune was that after a little while the patient came walking down the street we were able to much shorten this story we were able to coax her would have helped from her primary care physician on the phone to get for the emergency room where she ultimately was admitted so the missing piece to me as the physician is this is a person that's in jeopardy this is a person that needs help and they need it then and we did find it's kind of a good story I happen to see her on the way over here it's okay but this is a story where it just shows a missing piece of another party not being available to come in and pick up a patient at this point and follow them during this vulnerable period to a point where they transition to what's appropriate and seen through a care process to a point where there's sufficient stability to call it a concluded episode of care and so there's a gap in the middle of this patient's episode of care and I have ideas for how this could be rectified I hope it's not going to be some sort of political or administrative process that takes months to find a solution for in the in the event though you felt like from because the purpose of the committee is the police what is the role of law enforcement and kind of what does that service look like and kind of trying to define what what it looks like for Randolph both in the district and outside the district but you felt like the role for law enforcement was completed it sounds like well well I learned this is the way we do it and I don't take any issue with it you we're a group getting together kind of look at the future of policing this country our country right this town and kind of overall thing and I think maybe you're talking about some additional things that we may want to think about as we're going that's right it relates to the the objective of establishing an embedded mental health worker and to work either within or alongside policing functions and I know that that is kind of in the domain of this committee I know you're you're focused maybe on jurisdiction issues and vans and issues right now but to me this is something that should not be lower on the agenda it ought to be to me frankly it ought to be on the top of the agenda I wish I wish Kristen was here she's on okay Kristen's here and Kristen talked Maury and I talked about this after he encountered he saved this woman's life really and the missing piece that I thought was here you know I totally understand why the EMTs and why the police need to go on and you know go to the next column but this is where a social worker would totally pick that piece up and be with that person and provide resources if not do what Maury did and stay with them and then get them to the ER if it's a safe situation they could do that all by themselves but more likely they would add the additional piece of resources get them connected to a recovery coach and substance use treatment or at least try to and that's really what I have seen around the state that the embedded mental health workers do on calls exactly like so don't mean to sort of have embedded mental health workers called Clara Martin and other organizations Orange County Mental Health Washington County Mental Health so aren't those in sort a that that piece of the pie that you're asking for because it's not like our police department are going to drive around with a mental health worker in their left seat and for every call they're on and Scott has the opportunity or the officer has the opportunity to call those other organizations to come in so to me that's that's an embedded piece that sets a fabric that's throughout the state that that call could have gone to those organizations for someone to come out can they not so the point of that embedded social worker would be to write in that left seat with that officer so in a situation like this incident where the role of the law enforcement officer and or EMTs would be done that social worker would have been already there and picking up that role for whatever additional help that that patient that person whatever the case may be instead of dragging on with trying to make those phone calls to the Clara Martin Center or whatever respected mental health agency the embedded worker would be in that left seat with that officer and they would be on scene with that officer as opposed to trying to call Clara Martin Center while you're trying to minister Norton doing CPR and all the other parts of pieces so you could get a call similar to this or different than this at any point in time morning night day middle of the night whatever at any time of the day and so would the protocol be that anytime you've got a call you don't know if there's a mental health issue or not but most some people might think they're well someone broke into my house they must be crazy but but that being that being the case so before you head out to every call you stop and pick up a mental health worker to sit in the left seat with you right seat right seat whatever it might be but right I'm sorry I'm not so stuck in New York Indian time if you're having on that side of the road but but the social worker would be riding on and like there was a active burglary it wouldn't be riding in that seat going into that kind of dangerous situation they're embedded for those purposes of having people that are having a mental episode an overdose situation or all the above can we pinpoint when those calls are going to come in no we can't I'm not disagree I'm not disagree I'm actually champion you know but you know the police department at this point given the budgets that they have came higher the staff they need to take care of the village accurately if you're going by what you've been telling us over these weeks and so to say okay we're going to hire a mental health worker and oh well we're going to go pick up the mental health worker along the way to this next call or call them what's the difference between that call there or a call to Clinton Martin who also live locally to come out and help attend that situation they don't Joe the difference is the embedded mental health worker would have a radio and a recall number and that they would monitor the radio and if they heard a call that sounded like it they might be needed they might not go with the police officer they might have their own vehicle oh sure sure they might go with the police officer but that that's totally different from Claire Martin Center they don't have a radio or a call number dispatcher actually dispatch an invented mental health worker but I would suggest and at least they used to Claire Martin used to have a person on call all the time and then you're what you're asking for is an invented mental health worker to be on call all the time listening to a radio just in case they might get called I don't think that that's quite a quite the scenario that plays out well unless you're going to hire three shifts of mental health workers well I don't think this is the time for us to dig down into how it works around the state but I'm happy to provide that information at a later time because this has been going on in lots of different counties in lots of different communities well I think I think I think it is it's over 10 years with great success and great fiscal savings for communities by having an invented mental health worker I disagree with you this is not the time to talk about this is the time that we're talking about additions to the police department as a whole well I was trying to stick to the agenda this isn't on the agenda and Dr. Smith is on the agenda this is just a discussion of during this so thank you so I do think we are going to get there and it'll be sooner than later as we go through the very first cuts of the different budgets one of the things that we need numbers for if we're going to put it in is something like this and so in order to get there we've got to pick a service model so we'll just sort of highlight where that placeholder is in terms of where it goes and then you're going to meet again next Tuesday and sort of a little bit out of cycle with this meeting and as part of that if we can kind of pick a service model we can start to pull from some of these other examples of what a cost might be and make sure that that gets in to those documents if that and presuming that's where you're headed based on conversations today so we will we're there a little bit now we'll touch on a little bit a little bit later but through that process we'll be in some level of this I think sooner than later as well and I thank you for doing coming to share that because it is appropriate right now while we're doing it and thank you for what you did all of you I think it really drives home the issue of what we do need multiple areas thank you I just thought that I would be happy to participate in discussions going forward to help find a solution thank you thank you any other public comment yes my name is ken goss I live on fish hill outside the village police district we have never had the police coverage from the village before so I don't see why we need it now we have the sheriff's department which agreed is a little smaller than it used to be but we have the state police they have never not responded when called this is not like it's a high crime area I can't see the extent of the village police department out to the whole town when I don't really think it's necessary my name is Nan Quinn and I also live on fish hill and in 40 years I did call the state police one time and if someone was shooting at someone else and the state police arrived right around 10 minutes after the call and and resolved the problem the problem so like mr. goss I feel that we have adequate coverage as we are yes how long ago was that time that you call the state police um more or less maybe maybe 15 years but I feel very comfortable with um we had some vandalism up there and not in Randolph in the town of Bethel and each time I call they didn't come immediately but they did come and I feel I like what dr. Smith said about a mental health worker but I'm here to address the issue on the table about whether or not the present police department should expand outside the village limits and I hope it does not I I feel that we're adequately covered minutes because we missed last time that would have been our first one in October so we sent it out a couple times to you the September data there were at least three separate reports the typical ones we put out there incidents arrests and issues I think you also had some data on some other types of calls that was sent to you and really it's if you have any questions about any of that it seems to follow format we've talked a lot about granularity of detail I think we were able to get into some time per call stuff that's been sent around as well to at least try to quantify some of that so I don't know how deep you want to go into any of those I can pull them all up on screen if you don't have them with you it's really do you want to do a deep dive we've opened generally or included this sort of bucket review as part of it it's really what you feel you need at this point anybody have any questions about the data that came out this is the one that I'm talking about that that had the yellow lines and so all these ones that went out of town were um these are these the ones that the state police call you are Scott I'm sorry this is Scott are you looking at the Randolph calls or the Vermont state police calls I don't know what it says it says Randolph PD RPD it says on the top of it it's the brand so these were called in by the Vermont state police or they were called in by due to like say the child abuse that was kind of a uh emergent piece the suspicious you know and most of these suspicious uh events were also called in as emergency responses as well I'm just kind of quickly going through some of them were also like uh the town of Randolph says like the animal problems but a lot of these were also called in by the Vermont state police because they couldn't get there in time with fashion I feel like a traffic stop at McDonald's I don't know what that is but if you take a look at it on the other on the far side you'll see where it says grant that was probably done by highway safety you didn't see any flight grant on that one yeah on the very far column were under the area yeah just says Randolph town okay I do see one that you have here that says that says I'm just just kind of wondering that the severity of call the other state the state police called you on each and every one of these not each and every one majority of them yes right so and the question I kind of beg from it is more so the state police of late have told Burlington because Burlington defunded at least a piece of the police department um that uh we're going to start charging Burlington state police have actually had contracts with towns to where they come in and do patrols and and actually you know for a fee so it's like the sheriff's department did here and so that being the case I look at it from the revenue side of it and say so the state police who carried the FDs to cover but they just can't hire they can't find the folks that they can hire you're under man you're saying you're having like three officers and I'm sorry that that's outweigh um for the need however you're under man and and so my thought is is that are you building do you build the state police for doing the work that they're assigned to do and on the revenue side of it if the state police can charge Burlington can charge other towns because we're going to come in and have a contract with you and provide you extra policing for those natures why can't work in the reverse and you're probably not I know the answer but I know the answer to that you know sorry about that um you're probably not however I also look at it as revenue sides of things and the state police can't manage certain call and they they said that they can come to the most emerging call zone with a gun zone so whatever that reason whatever that reason might be or they call the most urgent calls but if if you're being asked to do the state police's work then shouldn't invoice be going out to the state police saying okay this is us doing your because you have the FDs boy you just not you're just not manning it they carry it in their budget so back and please correct me if I'm wrong that's an interesting approach I'm sorry it is an interesting approach it is and please correct me if I'm wrong uh back when Randolph PD was here at one point in time they did try to invoice the state police for out of village responses and it didn't go over very well and and or not was not paid I think it was a different scenario though like I said I don't have all the stuff and we were fully staffed and I think some of the time it was we went out to assist them versus now they don't have the staff we're doing it in their stead so to speak so it's it's an interesting thing to think about though because you you were doing like backup or helping them giving them more coverage at an event or a call and now you're actually covering it for them like that's their area you're providing the service it's also a twofold dilemma because the other piece of it is that you tell the state police sorry we only have three officers and that covers 24 7365 and sorry we can't take your call what would the state police do like like you've said training you show up at a national highway this three at one o'clock in the morning this three or four state troopers that met that accident they sent one of them rocking him all the way out of rocking him to go to a Brookfield accident but on the flip side when Scott needs backup the Vermont state police come and they don't charge us because it's a state function so I think it's a given take with the state police and us and I think you'd have to be really focused and not alienate them like and and but I think you'd have to be focused enough to say okay are there certain things if you're short staff that we should charge for or not but I don't think it's an overall every time they call us I don't think that's good relationship building I don't think so either and I don't I'm not sure it's an every time but we did have the conversation with them when they were here presenting about you got this budget you don't have any officers in it are you able to help fund because they were pretty adamant about us having something so giving up completely pieces when they come here they come to back up our police department there's a difference between them backing up our police department and us backing them up and they're on scene they're just looking for more firepower although they do handle some calls in the village when there's no random officer on duty but do you I don't know if anybody knows the answer is Randolph PD considered the primary law enforcement agency for the village of Randolph yes and Trina when you just said that they came to one of the meetings here and they were supportive of us having something because they knew we needed it well they were very adamant that they did not have the capacity to take it on and that we needed to do something or they didn't say we needed to they said they really encouraged us to because they couldn't pick up the volume because they were understaffed then too but then I believe the conversation came up with them of while you have money in your budget are you willing to share some of that for us to get top and they didn't monitor that conversation I was the one that brought that up I look at budgets all the time and manage budgets and you know if you if you book for a hundred FTEs they only spend the 75 you get 25 FTEs with budgets that you know you know that that can that can be spent yeah you know until you fulfill it then you when you fulfill it then you meet your need yeah but I do see that it's two different services back at each other up is a different service than covering because they don't have this to have to do it but I'm not sure how that would go either it might be a good conversation to see what they think they need and you think you need you know what I mean to me in the middle on some stuff how do you feel about that Scott what your thoughts are well if you take a look at your stats from the Vermont State Police your highlighted lines are also of what BSP responded to here in the village if you go line by line you've also got almost the same amount of calls that BSP comes and handles inside the village as we are outside the village I'm not going to get into a tit for tat crap because I need them when I don't have officers on duty to provide a law enforcement service to this community it's the people that you have to think about bottom line right so me personally I'm not going to go toe to toe with that kind of piece especially when we're in a position where we need each other to fulfill the same goal I think we're good with the September data then let's move on to the next one operating options and do the initial budget review brace yourself brace yourself I have handouts I apologize to everybody remote having some issues with the screen chair in adobe should have diagnosed those as we go but to talk review and fix tech might be a little bit farther than I could handle all at once that might be where they're going to get 140 and I don't know so what we got hit it up for you you had sent us away with three sets of tasks this I want to be sort of open with all the caveats and the clarifications this is a workshop version of this next week's will be a little more refined as you work toward the end line we'll be more and more refined as I mentioned earlier we need to sort of pick a model for the embedded services if we're going to do those I'll highlight where those would go in terms of what's the like least line we put them on but we don't have a dollar figure in here right now associated with that because we need to define sort of the scope scale and get a sense of cost there so we put together the basics so you can start at least to see what a budget would look like for each and it speaks a little bit to how each operates what we also have to share with you are sort of baseline costs for each new officer we add what does it cost to equip them and in which model how many vehicles are needed at which point so as we go through it we'll work from sort of the existing districts into what I call the modified districts and then from there we'll go into what a town life budget would look like and we'll talk about how many officers in each piece what changes from piece to piece in this workshop version the thing that's consistent throughout all three as well is that the non-tax revenues that are in there for policing remain relatively unchanged until we have some of those conversations it's been pretty clear that we don't want to try to offset operating costs through ordinance or speeding tickets or any those kinds of fines we've left those there we have addressed the fingerprinting money to make sure that that is appropriate to reality doesn't cost me anything personally but we've left a cop screen in there hoping to make the next round they're now they were twice a year they're now spring only so we have that as a fairly modest amount that would help offset costs you know full system costs for an officer so we don't deal with any of that we are working on some of the tax implications one of the things that I have to try to clarify with you tonight is when we talk about a modified district how are we drawing those boundaries we talked generally about going up to here and out to there when going from here up to there in particular do you want to grab everybody that's got a budding property on the side of 66 what if their frontage is on something else what if it's just land that's connected to a piece that isn't so monogies the easy example it tucks away the samus parcel that's just beyond it where it's got the little hill there that's connected to the one across the street that goes away so some of it's about how do we want to draw those boundaries going down towards child's is pretty easy because it's three parcels and you're there kind of a thing but do you want to extend that in any way around that that gets into what that grand list value would be which lets us say sort of what would that be as an estimated tax rate in all those pieces we can talk a little bit about very broad strokes at this point but as we want to try to refine what the impacts are that's some of the detail we'll just have to pin down I think I can show you what I mean it's a non-PDF application a little bit later so just to start we did a little summary sheet for to try to lay them all out all the summary sheet has is what was approved by voters last we do that April May that second round budget so that's the 524102 in the column next to it we put the three different options showed you a plus minus in terms of how much are they up from that approved version and what's the percent change from that approved version we started with a defeated budget last year of 771387 so to give you another baseline for what that existing district number could be so when you start it looks really huge when you go from approved to 25 that looks like a 57 percent change if you take the one that was defeated you're talking about 7 percent we've also figured out some of the costs we're going to face budgetarily anyway we do nothing at all so health insurance we do a blended rate because it's on a calendar year we know we're going to get about 12 percent increase for six months of this fiscal year and we're expecting at least another 10 percent for the six months after that so we incorporate those and we look at the rates we take the premiums that are approved and we add 10 percent for that second six months that's given us a pretty good marker across personnel categories so that's how we budget for that if we don't know what somebody costs we tend to take the most conservative number we can we did try to mix up the portfolio in the versions in terms of who's covered where this number gets a lot bigger if it's all family plans for the open spots those are about 33 to 34 thousand dollars of town costs before you get into the employee share and then when you're on a single plan you're down around 11 to 13 somebody's on a buyout like one of the current officers is that goes down to a 35 $4500 number for the year so just those things alone can swing that bottom line quite a bit but since we don't know who we're hiring we tried to mix it up against all the versions so it's not just heavily loaded with the most expensive options we also didn't just say everybody's on a single plan and create fool's gold basically and so to get through the existing district budget as it is when you look at the revenues the tax assessment is really just the rest of those dollar amounts subtracted from the total budget that's the amount to be raised by taxes yeah we'll get through those with each one i'll take you through how many fds and sort of how they scale up so in this basic one the beginner one it goes back a lot to the one that we proposed initially last year this has with it you've got the chief you've got rosemary who's the admin dispatch and you're talking about four officers full-time officers and another you've got three books but it's another not quite half-time of capacity in part-time officers we've got a couple that we are one in particular we use regularly that we could continue to use so there's six total employees when you look at the benchmarking study you find that puts us kind of in a pretty similar spot to that this has a mix for the new officers of we've got one two-person health insurance plan and one family plan so we've tried to blend them a little bit so that but the all-in cost for an officer ranges from anywhere from about $96,000 to 107 or 108 it depends on that health insurance selection retirement costs are in there they've been updated we've got old numbers for dental and vision they don't tend to cost us much for the year the vision plan that we provide for example for a family plan it's $224 for the year so we haven't moved those numbers they're not going to move the bottom line if they increase or if they decrease same thing with dental the most expensive version of the plan is $1,500 right now for the year so those are all in there retirement I don't know how many of you followed closely and remember all the wonkery that we talked about last winter but our participation in the state employees retirement system and the category we have a higher employer contribution than we would if we were say in the municipal plan personally we're up around 18% in these it went up to help with some of the it was underfunded for years there's been some efforts to try to catch up with that across all state employee categories anybody in the pool we're in one with the sheriff's department and a few other I think state college employees we were in that first group to get that higher employer share and so that does add a little bit of cost when you think back to earlier versions of Randolph PD budgets where that rate was a lot lower and or when we look at some of these municipal benchmarks if they're beamers which they all are it's us and Bethel in the piece or system and they don't have police you know you're down in that eight to 10 range as opposed to 18 to 20 that adds up as you add officers it starts to stack why are we in the state plan instead of the municipal one I think when we got in it was actually seen as the more advantageous place to be for a little benefit because there was a one time offer to municipalities to to join the state system instead of going their own way that was before beamers was there and Randolph and Bethel jumped on and then I think beamers came along like seven eight years after that I think until the underfunding 90s they're they're pretty much the same as it's a plan F which yeah and so as we go through that you see that overtime and we just put inflationary factors with overtime when we have fewer officers the overtime amount is going to be a little bit higher so you'll see that in the existing as we add officers we're thinking at this point at least maybe that'll be a little bit lower so the factor goes down we don't have a lot of history yet to pull on our own data so like for highway I'll look at a three to five year sort of winter schedule because that's where most of our overtime is and we can figure out as a percentage of overall hours what we're overtime hours what's our average and we'll budget for that some years we missed some years where we make out ahead we just don't have that data set to pull from so we're using kind of a best guess factor there and we'll try to refine that to the extent we can everything goes in that police administrative budget that we just talked about for the employee costs there's also workers comp in there what you see in there is based on our current rate for workers comp from the lct passive multiplied by what we think the costs for the employees is so that's the wages in this model multiplied by the rate that we have to get you that 34991 that's within 991 dollars of what we budget as we add officers we have payroll the number we're using to multiply the rate by it's bigger so the workers comp number will get bigger in each version as we add people general insurance costs we aren't expecting too much to change in this version you'll see it scales up a little bit really it's as we add vehicles at this at this rate that's when we start to add some general insurance costs playing this already sort of insured it's at the value it's going to be at unless we there's some significant investment in that it's unlikely to change their technology we've got we do mobile data terminals through this we still have the three vehicles in this model so that's what we have currently so some of those costs are mitigate a little bit by the fact that we've already built out to a certain standard or to a certain footprint vehicle fuel we're still trying to figure out what usage is what it looks like i'll try to plug those numbers in so there's a number there that keys off of the one we use for the current year budget we don't move some of the other ones too too much from we come down from office supplies all the way through into operating janitorial expenses line 53 is contracted services when you think of a good place to maybe put the embedded social worker piece if it's not an employee it seems that we've talked to the model where we go into some kind of partnership that could be where we put that we also create a specific line for there's just a thousand dollars in there right now to make sure that we don't lose track of it probably not enough to do any kind of contract i would imagine so when we add that in that will go to those bottom lines building costs are what they are the vehicles are all relatively new so we haven't moved that too much same thing with training development the dispatch is based on what we've got per cost from their city just uh go back to trade well if they go to the academy which i would assume is kind of gonna be at least one of the ones when you expand do we pay the cost for the academy there's no cost to the academy but you are paying for that officer's fine the wages a straight 40 hour work because what you're paying an officer okay and then um but isn't there like mandatory training you know mandatory a year and depending on what you go to there is a cost to that training um we the current state of affairs kind of going on with the academy if you want any specialty training you've got to go out of state and that's going to come with cost 5000 is low uh yeah if you have to get certified each year for your firearm and you know so a lot of those in house training is kind of what we call them we've uh thankfully we have a firearms director instructor on staff um so really the only parts and pieces that we're really paying for especially for the firearm piece is the ammunition for the firearms um use of force again we go within partnership well like we did this year with royalty and PD we had an officer come from heinsberg and do the uh use of force class we also had other instructors from uh department of liquor and control um so we utilize from our instructors for those which don't come with the cost you're just paying the officer for that those powers for that training that's the in house stuff anything else to get your 32 hours especially if you're looking for some kind of specialized training that's going to come with a bigger cost to it but scott you can get eight hours of team two training for three other than the cost of the officer to be there that is true plus lunch win-win but i think it's um it's important to have a future for our officers and to help them develop and grow um you know it's possible the chief won't be the chief forever so maybe there's an officer that needs to take you know some leadership training maybe the department will at some point have a sergeant and the sergeant will be leadership training all of that stuff cost money doesn't take anything to burn through five grand no no it doesn't training that's one for you know some of the ones that we have to send people to and or it's you get that into it by the time you get them out the door headed that way so i just suggest we pat it to 25,000 or have Trevor look at it i mean i don't know i don't know i think your budget this is um assuming six officers that's not even a thousand dollars a person and we kind of went all the i think you're up closer to the 15,000 as a minimum knowing that you probably got some other budget line items that you could play with if you needed to but i would think you'd want to pay did you say the fleet of vehicles you have now would cover this staff that you'd have we have three vehicles two of them would be essentially the front line service vehicles with a chief's vehicle one of them goes down that chief's vehicle gets pressed into that regular service and or would be available if something else comes up that's present in the district and we have three current that's how many vehicles we have right now so if one of them goes down your house occurrence has just fallen apart so really you can't go rent one how much would it cost to budget for one more police cruising so we did uh this is coming from the brand new Tahoe uh the total spent was 58,000 that's fully equipped unless you have a special deal on it or something we did pretty well lights and stuff you have to put on those things all that stuff right do they all have to be tacos no i i took what i have that one that was the brand new cruiser with the total outfit and radio which gave me that base number i didn't have what the total cost was for the Durango or the uh the pickup due to it was purchased from morge county so this these were the hard numbers that i had with a brand new cruiser and no it does not have to be a powerful but i really like it works i really like your problems we we haven't looked into that in any shape or form this was a of the FEMA uh grant purchase all the way around um we haven't been down that road in 60 to 65 is what we were seeing when we went through the exercise last january february in terms of what other communities when they were going out to look for see similar styles of vehicle they all seem to be in that kind of a heavy duty suv class and budgeting you'd want to put 60 000 but we have these financed other pieces of equipment that would be an option it was just the lease payment in there the challenge is um you get once you get into it you get locked in it that's now your replacement cycle forever to stay on cycle because the money might otherwise put aside to sort of save and purchase it or you have to sort of level up at some point if you ever want to jump out of the game some towns never do i think very towns still lease finances with a significant amount of stuff others have moved away from it just i would i would think you would want to be on a cruiser rotation anyway you don't want to buy three you know every three years i can look and see what the information was um i think it was 15 000 a year um and that was a completely outfitted cruiser everything plus it's the maintenance on the vehicle as well except for tires um it might not be that option i don't we can do it it's a three year we've done five years needing over five years for any indebtedness first of all you don't have useful life for this but anything beyond that needs voter approval anyway so you run up against statue once you hit back to the um year 24 approved the five hundred and twenty four thousand dollars you mentioned something earlier about a higher number of seven hundred and thousand dollar number yep so really all of the three options really are starting from that seven hundred thousand dollar number i think right in terms of if you look at just sort of what we're proposing for operational need based on what we've sort of known as operational need both in our trial run and when we put that earlier version that's really your starting point when you talk existing district is that and then from there you jump into the other models right so if this was to just stay in the district must say that was going to happen but if this were to just stay in the district your proposal for next time eating day would be eight hundred and twenty four thousand and it turned down seven hundred thousand dollars this last year well i didn't say it would get through we said this is what i'm just saying the difference is you're adding a hundred and twenty thousand dollars more than what was proposed that that failed it's well it's two officers and then a year's worth of inflation basically i'm not i'm not doubting the numbers are correct by fact i think they're probably very correct it's just it's just the point of it is is that you couldn't get them to pass the budget for seven hundred thousand which it actually was close to seven hundred thousand before the sheriff's department started and you know ran off lost to police department if you will lack of a better term um but but uh you know and it was up close to that seven hundred thousand then bill bonnier came in and and and they reduced it significantly and then you obviously went without a sheriff's department for this year well no no it's well but whatever but you know saying is then you proposed what it was really going to cost which was seven hundred thousand oh tonight i believe there had to be some sharing in the county or something to make this even affordable for for the sheriff's department to get there um and they turned that down but joe i think that some of that was um people felt like it was a rushed thing and what's different what will be different this town meeting is that we've had this committee that has been met and very thoughtfully looked at all this data and looked at all these comparable towns and models and done its homework and i think will be better equipped to educate the community about the need for the budget whatever it ends up looking like i i i will hope that you're correct i do i do very much hope that you're correct but i also think in town there were several individuals that went out in power and said turn the turn the budget down turn the budget down because they wanted to see it go to a townwide police department and have it paid for through the whole town and that's that's a lot of what i read whether it's accurate enough but that's what the newspaper said and that's what the front porch forum said and those folks that were out there that pushed that that angle i remember those comments from seven people absolutely so they convinced a lot of folks to turn it down but we also had a lot of people that came out to vote in april or may whenever it was that wanted it too so i think that speaks loudly i just want to make one comment about the vehicles if we were going to continue on this road i would wonder if we should incorporate either leasing or buying first so we have that's right up front where you need it could be wrong but all three of them are brand new right no the uh drango and truck are they were used from orange candy you know what a few vehicles for the town and we used to leave drango's like a 20 in the rams of 19 and we did them on the lease and you bought them up for a dollar at the end after three years that's how they did it and it really is more looking at what the rate was going to be that you're going to pay than anything else well the loan was going to be five percent or six percent but if you lease it it really only adds up to three percent and buy it out for a dollar at the end of the year that was more the reasoning of which way you went it was for the financing side and it fits into other policy choices the town has made or wants to make we've talked the last couple of budget cycles about trying to get our overall debt load down and so someone's taking off some of these leases lease payments payment for equipment borrowing for equipment and trying to really get into what you borrow for those larger capital expenses so it's going to have to sort of fall in what's our general prescription for everything is this an exception to that do we look for different ways to do it or do we sort of say this is the model we have to stay on some of these schedules whether the I mean cop cars should probably be three years but depending on how far we ask for the shark but we're going probably to get a little more out of the first couple the police department doesn't currently have any capital funds correct no and this this budget does start to transfer money over as part of this year's capital planning process the idea is to at the minimum get a vehicle replacement schedule for what we're already doing so as we continue to develop that we'll know exactly five thousand and be well shorted but if you want to replace the oldest cruiser in another year or two you can see yeah chief do you know approximately what your vehicle maintenance expensive expenses have been this year uh with us going up to the town mechanic all we've done is oil changes and inspections thus far so all we're doing is really paying for the the oil and the filters in this that new thing so we're actually saving quite a bit I just did put snow tires on the Tahoe at a tune of almost 500 bucks so and then the other two will need tires as well 500 dollars the uh the button to go forward where you should buy them it sounds like we need um at least an additional vehicle right because we're at we have three vehicles three people running them all the time one of them is a 19 so there ought to be a vehicle whether we acquire it by lease or we acquire it by purchasing that should be in just the face budget I'm fine with the 19 ram staying as the backup you know if all else fails and something goes down you need it for a couple weeks not getting rid of it but that might bring you into a four-vehicle rotation to give you what you need in this scenario right if this is saying if we stay with where we are today you're talking 1998 or 1997 19 or 2019 but I think you're this budget here should at least include extra money for training and acquiring one more vehicle whether it's a purchase or a lease or whatever I think we can have that conversation but so in all respect to me what we were trying to think about is if it was just the village only to get around with three vehicles is doable if one goes down mine gets utilized and I hot foot it all the way around which is fine um the other way if we go to the expanded district model that's where we would put in play another vehicle or townwide another you know I don't know maybe two vehicles or so on and so on that's kind of what we were that's back and forth I don't agree with that and I see where you're at because one of them is a 2019 already it's four years old now we're talking next year's budget it will be a five-year-old vehicle it needs to be replaced but I'm fine with keeping it so it becomes your no and I just wanted to let you know that's where our line of thinking yeah more than I'm just more concerned when it goes down it's going down hard and you're going to be not a two-day-in-the-shop thing you're going to be a six months waiting for something to show up but that will happen no matter what model you're on whether you're on just just the village or the expanded village or the whole thing you're going to have that problem anyways except it's going to be multiplied if you go on bigger than the village you need more more people on at a time so you're going to need more cars anyway I'm just worried that right now you've got one that's going to be five years old in the budget year we're talking about this so so that would be a reason that you wouldn't want to expand the police service no I would want to see the if the model we're talking about right now is leaving it in its current limits my concern is that you need to replace one of the vehicles in the next budget year if you stay just the way you are even and there's a expansion in the next year's budget is written here does that how many officers does that expand from what you presently have we're going to walk our way there I wanted to walk you from existing to modified to town life just so because we thought that fit the best together and sort of when you think of operating I think the question was in the existing how many are there six total what's the new what's the new budget say that's that's six you have four you have four currently yeah four in the budget the past and so three vehicles is enough we have three in the current don't we do we have three FTEs so it's chief two other law enforcement officers in the roads oh okay okay okay this is the total challenging so yeah so yeah so where we are today fiscal year that we're in that voters approved last may just we've got chief two law enforcement full-time law enforcement officers in the admin dispatch so four FTEs and we have some capacity for up to three part timers we have function one and a half two ish there that we use in this existing district model here we build up where we started and or where we think we need to be operationally we have the chief four more full-time law enforcement officers kind of chief there's five certified law enforcement officers rose makes six full-time and we still have some part-time capacity number two three in there as we walk it out from there just to give you the sneak peek each iteration adds two officers so so when we get to the modified maybe we'll skip to that if you're good with that there's the chief six law enforcement officers the dispatcher and some part-time so that's the question so the part-time was what did they add up to are they adequate FTE now we've got about in the current budget we've got about half a position in hours so so about so you're at 6.5 FTEs so yeah it's 1004 hours we're budgeted but with the way the cops grants fall and everything we probably won't use an hours of part-time capacity can I ask Scott a question Scott if we decided uh you went the whole town at least if I wanted to hold out what would your operation look like what would you be doing in the whole town that you like what would change in this so I think I see what you're saying like right now you're servicing the whole town um basically um well but he's also answering calls outside the town right and so would you when you were when you were operating with the sheriff's department you used to drive around town every day now if you had the whole town you probably wouldn't be doing that same coverage yeah well you know in a perfect world if we were to do a townwide model two officers would be on shift where you could divide your time and also your efforts so you would have those officers in those in the town and in the village doing those active patrols does that answer your question or not really to me to me our operation wouldn't change that much it just be more employees with more areas to cover we wouldn't be changing operations we just be on a more grand scale okay I guess what I'm trying to figure out is are you going to be covering the outside parameters as extensively or as deeply as you do in the village so I mean that would be am I making sense yes and I think that given the whole geography of the town we would be out there would it be as aggressive as a two square mile area I would say no but if there was other calls of say like I have a speed issue on an east Randolph on route 14 we're going to hit that a lot more heavy as opposed to being on randrop okay you know does that make sense yes it does that you your answer my question so we're still going to have those active patrols but you know for those other circumstances we will concentrate on those areas that need those calls for service if there's break-ins at btc or up in the center where I'm going to concentrate my law enforcement efforts up in that area as well while keeping the the entire town covered as much as we can as well okay but as soon as we say we're going townwide you become the primary law enforcement for the entire town which means the calls that the state police are covering now come to you yep so the only thing we're doing is shifting who's taking the calls to a town department instead of the state police correct all right the other pieces is outside of town is 100 miles of road inside the town there's 19 and a half and so the so the difference is is that I'm looking for the same if I'm going to pay for it I'm going to look for the same coverage that you're doing the town I'm going to push back somewhere beyond South Randolph road and a much regular much you know the very regular basis is they would be in the town well but we've been talking about more is like the public safety side and not like the policing all the time and so it wouldn't necessarily have to be like if you had a call as you had a break-in or your neighbor was sexually assaulted then Scott would be answering that call regardless of where that is I agree and so and it's more about helping our neighbors in that sense and making sure everyone has that access to public safety then making sure that the person is driving by your house every three times a day they presently do have that access to public safety they're very much the state police doesn't they got Scott their response to it you got a hundred thousand dollar budget that sits there in the general fund it says for police and services so they have that already you can't you can't ask me other ones um can I ask a question um Trini what you just said is I just wanted to I think what you just said is essentially we'd be shifting if we went to this other model we'd be shifting the calls that currently go to the state police they would now they would then go to Randolph police and I just want to Scott does that reflect reality like are you already responding to those I mean that's really what I'm trying to get at like are we are we trying to make a budget that sort of actually reflects our current reality of police response so like reality we're already getting those faults and you know depending on what the call is if it's not a non-emerging call those calls do you get shifted out to the state police the state police whether they follow up on that say call or don't um or if it's an emerging call or something that's you know within our capacity to be able to deal with we handle it um so we're already almost expanding the district lines as we are with the current staff which talks but we're sober realities we're already doing it um are we heading out to the east Randolph area on a daily basis no are we doing active patrols on on the back end of 66 south Randolph road north Randolph road and all above no because we just we don't have the capacity if we went to that townwide model that would be we would be the primary law enforcement entity to handle those calls for service and provide that public safety effort so yes we would be doing those kind of things and all the calls would be shunneled to the Randolph PE about it we're assuming essentially that this would take us up towards grand off center more than we mentioned before this expanded one we add a couple of full-time law enforcement officers so you went from four plus the chief in the last version six with the chief yeah um and then you still have rows there and we still have some part-time capacity in all of these versions because we have more full-time officers we do take that 10 40 the half-time position is lower those part-time hours down as well so you're really talking more about sort of a 0.3 0.4 percent you know position in terms of what the part-time hours equate to as you get through these versions um there aren't too many differences in between this one and the one before in terms of there aren't any new categories to add we have the same pressure points that we had in the other one what do we put in there for any of the embedded contracted work what does that cost same line still held training's probably still low capital transfers definitely still low we've updated workers compensation costs but you can see just by adding the two bodies adding extra payroll essentially just went out $9,000 from version to version just on that um vehicle fuel goes up a little bit um some of our other supplies go up a little bit dispatch stays roughly the same it depends on the sort of shift coverage and all of that um we've got a little bit extra in there in terms of where the various city contract worked out for this year anyway so it's a reasonable amount to dispatch isn't charging you by the number of calls uh no they're charging us uh pretty much a set rate as of right now I think if we if we expand to a like a modified district or a townwide model where we're pulling more of their resources I believe that they may try to modify as best as they can and how many of you goes to ever with this one this one what do we jump up to we had originally thought this is where we need to have at least one okay so we're starting with at least four of the vehicles and then we could talk about whether or not five make sense in that and again so then that adds if you had another vehicle that's another $60,000 if you add that's two right because we got to replace one no matter what and you need to add one so this budget needs two vehicles added to it and one of the things we need to add in here too if we go to this is that for each officer we bought some additional stuff with the arc of phones when we set up anticipating that at some point we would be able to add more capacity but we get into the modified district we get beyond sort of the number of pistols best some of these other things that are required more of to begin with so each time we have to outfit an officer we're going to have to add another three was it 3200 or so 3300 that's low I just figured it up for hours and I came up with 43 and so that that would have to be incorporated into this version so it's roughly the same just in terms of the health insurance mix like I said before we tried to mix it up so we don't have too much of any one thing we don't take the most expensive or the least expensive a couple people on family plans now we're on a buyout so we added a family two person and single as we start to build out each one so you get a wide mix um there so that's what's incorporated retirement scales up based on percentage payroll all of those types of things so what you get to there is now we've crested over that million dollar mark just by a little bit so can we just go over operationally now and then I want to talk boundaries because I think we need to give them that air like what is this modified area version look like but how many officers would be on duty at one time under this scenario for the expanded a district I would put like an officer like a night shift or a day shift a night shift and a split shift officer so you'd have in essence almost two on shift as opposed so one would be covering the mids into the nights on the heaviest most call volume times where you still have a day officer and you still have a night officer and then you have a float in between so it's really 24 hour coverage no no no I still go to about 2 a.m. between 1 and 2 a.m. so starting at 8 a.m. is when you start so we would start at 7 a.m. to 2 a.m. and it's two officers on all that time and you're on so like I would even be considered that day shift officer with that other option coming in like 11 noon or whenever to bridge that gap and what do you have what is your coverage now and that's a 7 a.m. to 2 no so I've got sparsely every other weekend from like 11 to or from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. every other weekend and he does a few of the weekend shifts to even out his 40 and then I am on Monday through Friday 08 to whenever I get done so what's he saying you start at 6 yeah wait so does that mean every other weekend there's an opening on correct as of right now when Chelsea is out of the county you'll have that you'll have every weekend covers but as of right now and just Trevor just while I'm unmuted these this stuff that you handed out tonight is this available for you to send by email to me yeah I can get that to you here but I'll poke out and send that to you in a second well you don't have to do it right now I just it's a lot easier to see it than to hear about it yeah so you're you'll have only I'm still trying to just because it plays into vehicle counts I'm not in my head you you'll have two people on in the day shift and then you said there was one person that would be a split shift so there's three on it so I apologize so like you'd have one day shift officer yep one night shift officer yep and then you'd have an officer that would come in for like a split shift so you so that one officer is you in essence you would have two officers on you know the second half of the day shift and first half of that night shift so yes you would so in essence you would have you wouldn't have three on at the same time you'd have two given that split shift officer working and one towards the end correct right because you're going to be there you'll be there for part of that time also correct so you need at peak you need three operational vehicles correct in that scenario correct because officer a that's supposed to get done at x time is in the middle of a call officer b can't come and take their vehicle so you need four functioning vehicles in that scenario so so this budget already covers so this budget already has the fourth being hot no the car the car pieces right now are highlighting the numbers and then okay I got you so you've got a sense of cost only because you want the replacement I think you got it yeah I'm gonna say you're wrong but really we need four functioning vehicles and we're kind of just not counting the the pickup as a functioning vehicle at this point we're counting it as a replacement so you need to a replacement in addition I I have something that's come to my mind about police coverage and safety coverage what happens if two o'clock in the morning a freight train is going through here and interails in the middle of town who gets called and what happens so without a doubt in my mind I'm going to get that phone call and I'm going to pull the closest officers to respond to that scene at the most time in fashion okay who else would you have to call so like say Chelsea who lives here in town she'd be my first phone call um and then I would work out from there but again but the state will be there the railroad will be there yep so without a doubt we can't make it all be there it'll be there'll be a party there so you're fully prepared Scott I've been ever since February it just happened but fortunately it was in Whitehall, New York just before they got across the border I'm trying so I that's how I know you are to the state let's talk I can't just a real joke you do you should I do all kinds of fun stuff okay any questions on the modified before we move to what the boundaries on the modified should be all right let's take the boundaries in two pieces okay so we have um to the south it ends currently at Gifford but a lot of your calls go down to Shaw's so I think the question is where do you stop on that piece well that's gonna be a question for you too I mean a lot of our calls for service is also on Beanville Road I mean technically we drive all the way out south 12 take Beanville Road and come back into the village it makes sense to me to go all the way down to that town line which would also include castings as well on the Beanville Road though what is your other than the other districts right right but I'm just phrasing my question sure like on Beanville Road other than managers drive because we know what fun that is what are their calls down through there are they just patrolling more accurate patrols but you also have the Beanville Apartments you also have castings and and then you also have the town dump and things that would encompass a lot more of our patrol areas and for cultural service it's also storage units too that I've been getting hit lately with that so no not these ones here but other ones I was going to say there was one in South Wales wasn't there that got you there we've had some homeless people trying to camp in the ones on on the 12 South going out so other than that not the one that would also encompass the cemetery too which I think is important I was going to say going the other way wouldn't you want to go up to where the um to many get up in that that fire up probably but can we set this one first yeah like let's decide what we're going to do on the south first I'm sure we ending it at Shaw's are we going down just through 12 are we going to take on the Beanville Road too I think we should if we're going to be driving out that way which we already do make it ours so you're doing that even currently in effect and we try to pass off as much as we can to the monster then we don't want that in there the basic sense of what we're looking at for these managers drives becomes all you so we're meeting any other officer and other vehicles yeah and some better tools so if it's Shaw's you're just really grabbing probably the two these are the other two so the whole plaza split to these three parcels so this is the substation up front and then the bills are so that one just grabs these and if you do this sort of other version are you talking about coming down to essentially the end of Beanville and 12 and then but actually the town line south of Beanville yeah south of there I think that makes perfect sense so what did you what did you budget to on this budget did you budget to Beanville or did you budget to Shaw's you budgeted a level of service but not the area being a little bit bigger so they would need a couple more but you need more if it's less than you need less it says it looks from Shaw's up around to the new hotel at Morgan Orchard site was sort of what we hadn't thought so depending on how you wiggle it the red is the railroad tracks current yep yeah so this green it's not a perfect map obviously the landfill isn't mysteriously in the Philly district already it's a shading but it gives you a sense of with some parcel lines and some other features on there so I think your your issue here is if you're gonna go to the town line you naturally could say that way to the railroad track but then what do you do this way you want me to grab this side of 12 too right well it's uh you would think that if you're coming down 12 and there's you know properties along 12 they're not part of the district okay I think your bigger question is how far back right I think we're saying the same thing right so does that include like Spooner Road and you're doing just the roadfront property right you're going a little further right I would think you would just do the room for properties what's up here on five percent this is where the fun begins properties have to be identified because obviously it's a voting piece of it too it's going to come at some point in time if it decides to expand if they decide to expand the district someone's going to have to be able to vote on whether they want that or not they are and expanding the district to the higher volume areas makes is what it looks like we're just trying to do and not the other parcels outside of that but just going up though the one for going to Shaw's up through Beanville and then going up well if you're going within the district though you've got like here like these all are touching 12 so if you're calling it by what touches route 12 it's suddenly in right you've you're bringing in some pretty large parcels like are just land or not saying that we don't know how to cause problems on open land I'm sorry to interrupt yes I love getting to see this map but I'm zooming in from bennyton down here because I'm doing it working down here all day tomorrow and I have it actually a night I have a dinner meeting with my team so I have to jump on but Trevor if you could send me whatever it is you handed out that'd be awesome and I'll see you guys next week thanks for joining us well the minutes should reflect that I'm leaving at seven twenty five always Trevor can we take like a three minute break good with me wherever you guys because I think we're gonna be here discussing this you put in state property and it becomes part of the place district does your pilot change so and um does the do you get anything from new england central for taxes for the railroad portion that goes through the town or does that only go to the state they have us lease the crossings or whatever that around us yeah I'll go yeah I mean I guess if your pilot goes up if you're going to go to renda sony out of btc right that's all that's what I was trying to figure out was right you're going to you would want to include btc so your pilot payment goes up I would think so it would seem to make sense if you look at where you're called in we probably shouldn't be talking about this if we're taking break but if if you look at your call generators though wouldn't you shouldn't in what's up there you really ought to go further back right because you got the camping place and you got the state lab the cemetery has events and whatnot at it you've got the house down below well and that's going to be the part case where you want to draw your line I mean I know I was just thinking where's your generators like before you know it your expanded line is going to be ton wide yeah but there's you you just draw a big circle and say everything that's encompassed in the circle is going to be what's your expanded boundaries so if you draw you know say we're going to go out 12 to beanville 66 up to btc 12 north to the town line examples and then you draw a circle right around you know in the red off area this is what the expanded distance is I don't know I'm just trying to like how do you if you look at you know where you're going like what does that then do what is what is your other generators what are you and maybe it's a phase I don't know right I don't think you can go whole hog all the months right I think you know when you're only talking 200,000 between expanded and yeah and then you split up between the grand list differently like you're gonna and I I personally think that we should you're bumped down but you're not just that right your vehicles aren't in there your capital costs aren't in there at what point are you now but I'm interested in my thought I don't think that we need the patrols as high as this is suggesting I don't think that we need to be doing massive amounts of patrol all throughout it's about what do you do I think it's about responding to the calls it's just and just sharing that cost overall it's just like if I moved to the district my daughter would be able to get bus to school but she can get bus to school where needs brand off and we all pay the same amount of school taxes and to me it's just sharing the cost overall but I don't think that we need to have like literally driving every single mile of the road every single day I think you got to have the patrols I don't think that's to be extensive and we're not even doing patrols or we're like driving by everybody's house here in town right now either they're not literally doing loops on the hospital hill in front of everyone's house every day either and I don't think anybody wants that either I don't think anyone wants to be put washed all the time so what kind of public safety does that present and how do you prevent crime right okay so don't move patrols or the police department say drives out south man up for my house is a bit a little bit off the road who would know that the u-haul trucks in my driveway still in my house blind or not you know that's that's that's a piece I look at but also look at it and say maybe we don't have that crime that they have a bit within the village and yet I'm going to be taxed just the same as it would be if I owned a property in the village and your tax if you have kids or not I mean that's your tax if you have kids or not if they're going to the school or not I've never had a kid in a school and I still hate it exactly and that's my point is not that I agree with it however that's that's kind of wild but in the policing piece of it I'm not seeing anything that's going to deter crime on south man off-road if you're not going to be out there patrolling the road you're just going to be responding and I'm just going to be a statistic and I'm going to pay four hundred eight hundred dollars a year to be a statistic that's that's basically what's going to happen I've got the state police right now to make me a statistic so I need another entity to make me a statistic and pay for that I'm not thinking that that's a that's a wise decision at least financially it's not a wise decision that's why we're once broke as it is highest tax and fourth highest tax tax place in the country that's why I think you're going to have to come up with something other than to say we're never going to do patrols because I'm not saying never do patrols so if you could actually listen to what I say instead of just responding with your own prejudices that'd be amazing um what I'm saying is that we don't need to cover every single mile every single day but we can have the staff on hand to be able to respond to the calls that we're already getting and we all should have we all have a responsibility to make sure that we're all taken care of just like we take care of educating our children so our children can then be responsible adults and be able to move up in the world we all have a responsibility to take care of each other and that's what we're doing I mean you pay for rec too when you don't have kids in rec you pay for the I I never go like I never go like well situations situations like domestic abuse those calls ever come from the Italians yep now that I have listened to you sorry I'd like you comment very well however now that now that I have listened to you I still disagree with you I think that we're going to provide policing in the village and you're going to ask the people outside the village to pay for policing then they should get the same policing same policing amount but that's what they're but what they're doing right now in the village moment that'd be great thank you I thought you were done I'm sorry but what I'm saying is that we're not driving my every single person's house every single day what looking in their windows and seeing what's going on we're responding to calls and I think as a society we have that responsibility to take care of each other just like we do other things yes Scott sorry so there's a dichotomy between both your points the reason why I signed up for the Randolph area was to be more of a proactive as opposed to reactive there's a dichotomy between both that's what we're trying to strive for are we trying to drive up and down everybody's roadway once twice a shift but we will be out to ensure or try to deter as much as we possibly am I going to stop everything I can't make that promise in any shape or form but if we can be proactive enough to even put a car out in any of the far reaches that's going to also deter some of this crime there's an economy to both your statements and that's what we've got to strive for the state troopers are out there now they're out on the back roads they're you know they're driving these roads and when they got a hot spot they're out there I haven't seen anybody have you driving the back roads a ton I'm not seeing anybody I haven't seen my cars go by my house in years but I'll start chuffing in the fields where you're right in the fields all their long chop and they go by we do and we meet them with the trucks on the dirt roads and stuff they're out there they may not be crossing their path but when you need them when you call them there again when you have an accident there we're not making any final decisions tonight anyways no no but we need to give Trevor some landmarks to work with on this the district idea so we really need to come back to the map and figure out to the south where where what properties we think ought to be in the police district and then we'll go the other way and and see what that looks like so we can use the same system to check out the modified district grand list which will when we get into tax conversations that's for that sort of can't sell for x until I know what that piece is and so the modified district that people would have to vote to be a part of it correct if we did townwide they would be voting on a budget in general right yeah I have to go back and look we got some guidance as part from the town attorney's part of that process before first or second we got to revisit that make sure we understand what the modified district process so I was just wondering if that was part of the congress of the thought process here who want to be voted into it are you a question are you afraid to allow a vote separately outside the district so that they can vote separately on what they want no versus one townwide vote and everybody gets a vote because it's basically there's a certain amount of people that see a tax reduction of it right so those those folks that are actually in the district will see their taxes reduced because it's going to be made up and in great part by those outside the district those are the tax implications that I asked about so my question is and what I'd like to see what I'd like to see happen I'm sure you don't disagree with that too however what I'd like to like to see what I'd like to see with that is that the people outside the district get to vote separately of whether they want a district expansion and a select board can make that determination the select board themselves can say yep we're going to vote it this way that's true they can't and I think it's only fair if you're going to encumber people with taxes despite the social thoughts if we're going to encumber people with taxes then they should be allowed to vote on whether that's what they want to do and if outside the district wants to have police coverage in a different manner than they presently have now then they will vote for it if they don't and they won't well that's true but the one thing I keep coming back to too is that we're still all the town of Randolph even though we're in the district or out of the district and we are we're changing we're growing and to me we need the coverage going up to the bar into BTC and the Morgan Orchard and then going out where we just talked about to Shaw's and Beamville to me that makes sense me and I would like us to all come together as a village even though you live outside or excuse me inside it's it's trying to present something that would work for everybody and everybody gets to vote on that across the board that's so you're not for people go to separately I'm not no I'm not because myself I've I've lived in the village all my life and I've always paid the taxes but I like the coverage when I'm that's me personally talking out from town I just I like it when I see someone go up my hill and I just like it but I'm just saying giving people a chance to to look at all three of these things and lining them up to say this is this this is this and this is this and I think people are pretty tuned in a lot of people as to what that is and how our world has changed and why we need it that vote would reflect that then it was I thought yes well same as no but outside the district if they felt they needed we're doing a whole revaluation reflect that and I don't know when the effects of that that will affect the tax rate so then you don't have any idea grand list doubles no tax rates going to drop dramatically and the increase in the police isn't going to make as much difference so if we were so I have a question over here if anybody's interested in listening so if we did just the properties that are facing or 12 for example and there's a house right behind that and they make a phone call because someone's breaking in or something so that would they would have to wait for state police basically like that would go to state police and not to tell our town but there but their neighbor right in front of them would have scott or one of his people there I don't think you're going to squabble over if it's in back well not technically but that's how it would go so those people still get the same amount of coverage basically but not which is what they do now right right right I mean that happens anywhere in the line on anyway even if you live like right on the Randolph apple town line or or wherever there's always a lot down at chip towns it's far yeah yeah there's always a lot of it and that's right yeah yeah yeah so what if so just for this exercise let's what if we include just the properties that are on the other side of 12 so properties so like the golf course for example with that then that's the other sorry yeah right right right right right right right right right right right right right I'm geographically challenged so okay okay we're headed headed toward Bethel from Schaas yep so everybody agrees that the minimum we're getting this right so now we're heading down route 12 yep no on the right hand side the boundary is the railroad tracks and then so we're going to grab say from where this green line roughly is right now to the railroad tracks we're going to sweep around to this point or to the town line and then as I come back up here I'm grabbing both sides anything with frontage on 12 yeah okay yep sorry we'll start there are we going down being built then sorry yeah we are so it'd be like that so like we're castings is and then other manufacturing there those of all be included correct so someone on if you go all the way to the line so someone on spoon a row for example they don't get they're not included correct they'd still be vsp they'd still be state police please give me something to shoot at yeah for the green lines to come back for you so here we are existing boundary so this gets into the do we want to go up both sides of 66 to stay consistent with what you just did on the south side and does that include I'm grabbing just right here these first two go back and away and then this plot right here when I click on it you'll see it's connected to all of this up here in this mostly land but to grab it grab that I mean the value reflects that it's largely undeveloped although we would use for that grandest value so technically the golf courses addresses a current district group 66 right right in through here is it it's this green it's here the green area right here that's right when we were talking with um the listeners they said there is some parcels currently and only a portion of their land is in the district and so they get two separate bills for that and I know they don't like it because they have to do the manual calculation but in a case like Montague some of these others play if you're if you're narrowing it in just because you have one little tiny parcel at the bottom that touches 66 now all of a sudden everything else they do into it they do line up against the current police district though too this one may have gone there's a subdivision that's been talked about for this piece too so it could be that this is updated at least every April so some of these we'll just have to make sure we also have we'll know whether or not they're still the same or I guess that's my question with Montague is they have they're lined right up against it anyway and that's not Montague that's the next one I'll see all of how funky the shape is of that and just because I got that little piece down on 66 now all sudden everything up there so as soon as you get a phone call are we going to send this funky shape map to the state police so if I'm paying and I'm on this one and I have a follow way up here I'll expect Scott to be responding way up here right right because I'm if you're gonna tax all this yeah I guess Montague is just basically I mean they line right up against it so it makes a little sense to me I get I don't know maybe doesn't but part of them are already covered anyway right exactly yeah Montague basically kind of almost covered on the other side down yeah so yeah but the other parcel I see what you're saying because that is a crazy parcel now the high school in the middle school of elementary is within the current district but if I'm right and the hand is right here and I'm all the way here and they say it's state police and they're uh you know the state police says no I'm sorry you're in chief do you have a suggestion or an idea or a thought or have you considered it at all well again you know how far do you want to you know paint your stroke here I mean if you're gonna say you're gonna go up 66 you know all the way to say to encompass BTC and or say you know what we're gonna stop at the interstate bridges cut divide I get the other ends of it with saying the new hotel BTC Morgan Orchard all the above which they're screaming for services again you know but are you just going to do that quarter or are you going to do and then a compass all the way around you know is that going to encompass fish hill is that going to encompass hebron hill is that going to go all the way down to the uh salt north that you're going to go out have to go out all the way uh past peth road to be able to encompass Howard hill hebron hill and all the above I mean where do you guys want to go I mean why I was trying to say like you know if you had your boundaries say if you were going to encompass uh BTC Morgan Orchard on that end say that corner of beanville and 12 what's your other boundary out 12 north and you just draw a circle and say congratulations that's going to be your expanded district I don't know you know I don't know and what about the different like villages that we have like we've ran out some of the east random you south random off like how are there actual boundaries for that or do we just put the signs up and say you're in Randolph center but because I like to be part of it you just move the sign in the middle of night well I'm just saying like if we just like decided to encompass Randolph center well they had there were there were boundaries way back when they first developed and one thing I had mentioned more the fire department districts yeah to see what the boundaries of those are because those are boundaries yes but by doing this you're also now and approaching we encompass everything in the village except when they go into range Randolph center covers partway down 66 and not all the above so we're also doing both fire stations and the collecting period east Randolph you know where's the middle line you know we're used to it we just get a bill for it well that's the thing over in east Randolph everyone's always like what about us why don't we get things and now and now and now they're like congratulations you're included well but that's not what they want to be included on this one playgrounds yes at least one here in sidewalks can you include businesses without including an area so could we can you say the police department covers the current village district just the way it is right now plus mcdonald's the barn morgan orchards and vtc that we didn't change the lines at all it just now includes those i don't even know if that's a possibility so there's so that's that's a that's a great piece but you're also traveling between here and there and you've got a cruiser going up and down 66 you've got motor vehicle enforcement you've got hey what about me you got the churches you've got other residences there that also are demanding calls for service that's a hard one answer your question yes you could do it you can't spot zone right so for zoning purposes there's statute that doesn't apply to do that but this you could that would be almost like a business hiring a private security company the difficulty is they don't get to vote on it unless they hit the business they don't get to vote on it yeah because my business is in the village but i don't get about taxes on it right yeah i mean you could yeah there's nothing look at the operating challenge of if you're on your way to and from oh absolutely i just wondered yeah whether you do business or you could use zoning district boundaries just to take but those could change over time and so when we were doing all the meetings and people were getting all excited and we had people show up to talk about this stuff with us which we're not having but they're going to gripe about it um the conversation was more about hitting just those places that you would get to basically on going up 66 and getting up through to the end of that point most of it was the intersection it didn't include btc and whatever but you know the conversation most of what we heard was that it ought to at least go up 66 we're going to child care center up there soon which is right along that same group swath but like it was more of a you're up there quite a bit already you're providing that level of service but they're not part of the district and but there's a lot of those businesses there that people are getting off the interstate to go to too so all that traffic stuff they're getting from the interstate that's going to be problems is benefiting those businesses that are up there too um when is the hotel supposed to open next year fall of 20 24 september august september so about a year away about a year away about a year away it's all stuff going on at that time right well i had to get out of the list let me know right now well it's it's more like no it's more like i see all those accidents up there all the time i guess is i so i just in my head i just just i'm a great little trust right that's yeah that's what i mean yeah but there's like a lot of just a lot of cars there's a lot better chance of crashes so maybe just for now to move this forward do you want me to do a modified district goes up to the interstate bridges i'll just grab everything on both sides i think you got to go up to the other side of that border i do too i think you got to go up to the intersection in front of the top in front of btc okay so go ahead and put btc okay i would would you we're got floyd's no i think you got to stop somewhere so you got to kind of but you know and we're going to get in that kind of pissing much too i mean do we just go to the intersection and not do btc and not do morgan orchard's not do many morgan orchard's touches it but you would no so it's dry way so well it comes down to 66 they have a drive on 66 there so for example yeah 66 as opposed to what scott was talking about in and encompassing which way is it gonna be like the corona so they did vtc with the pilot that's the way that's where we are right now that's what we were just talking about as opposed to something if your assessment goes up pilot was based on property values and isn't it only a certain there's like a yeah but there's a formula right it has to do with does pilot go up if so pilot is payment lewatt taxes it's a state the state doesn't pay property taxes but they pay i don't know it's not full they pay something to the town that they have property in and so the question is if you added them to the police district so you were adding the expense of covering their area does the pilot payment go up and so we're not going to get anything else out of it and our center actually gets a piece of that pilot money in that private district but it's a uh does that change if they become part of the police district and you're providing more services i guess if it doesn't then you know we never heard from any of them we only heard from folks who are in the village we're not we're not through yet though but we always said that we had to get going on this part as you can see it's taking enough time for us to run even through the modified conversation that so it's not that we're not gonna do it which is the print we've already put 20 pounds on a five pound bag i think we get another five pounds in it's just gonna take a little bit of doing is all so for tonight i would say then stop it at the stop sign at the intersection of the east level road switch road so right here at the east level road in ridge road yeah so you're going to lie the whole ridge no no stop it there in final vtc at that funky corner at the three-way intersection there so i might have a kid who needs to go to the hospital something i go broken it's fine thank you sorry guys thank you thank you at least give me something to start with as long as it covers morgan orchard and men yeah i think you have a new hospital property but some of this we think of a grand list value it's going to show the lot as it is on a spot it will be with any of these yeah so and then we may we'll have to overlay the tax agreement but we have just to see what they pay might be captain so so the portion i have is that all three scenarios going to be placed in front of the select board you're going to be presented to the select board along with a recommendation from this committee if not it'll be just the recommendation be allowed yep we're simply going to recommend something is that right well not simply but pretty much i mean we're not in fact acting you know we're not something through we're just recommending yeah the select board is the only one that has the authority to do that i understood that but i think we're going to have to outline kind of where the challenges are and we're we're we're we're going to look at it all like going out towards brain tree or anything at all did you want to sorry i don't know how far out do you go now uh out towards like 12 north is that what you're talking yeah so we only go into um just right before county trailer for the right okay but you know in all honesty we go out far as window road that's what i'm going to work and make a little bit right right which seems kind of like a natural border yeah do you want me to grab a window over around uh-huh and then you're saying when you go out park street you go up over wallast hill and down yeah that 12 a goes all the way to the brain tree top line okay you do cover all the two of them on 12 a oh okay all right i thought i saw you yeah because i often turn around maybe next trouble we're not skipping that right good yeah all right and i would leave it just as it's on 12 a okay that makes sense that goes all that includes everything through there how does brain tree go over the police state police same as brookville brookville has a small contract with orange county just to do something speed patrols and things like that but both of his console right yeah they need to be modified system to their consoles but they're full-time level two at least all the shares they're uh level two of one of them is a officer with brookton p the other one's like a relevant county oh i just think so yeah they have a proxily low like an 80,000 or 90,000 dollar budget in bethle for their console yeah but as i understand from a level of service you get what you pay for in terms of if you don't pay for much you get it's animal control and a few other some occasional speed patrol yeah but it was described to us as in part i mean there are other things so i called them one day just because i i have a property in bethle and then i i was i had noble hunting and i just saw this poor dog who was always tied up to a chain for years a big old husky of a dog and go by there and that thing would be out there laying in the rain just and so finally i get kind of tired of seeing it there was never a vehicle there so i you know this whole old house the old school house you know where the oxbow road is up that way so i called the console one day i was saying did you do anything about it you know it just felt bad for this dog that hunting season after hunting season of traveling over that way you know some people shouldn't have animals so i think you had talked about with the modified district that's adding two officers yeah what's the new boundaries that we made is that is that realistic with these boundaries that we just picked that's that's two on top of right no i understand that four right total yeah right i'm just thinking depending on how we modified the district one might be enough might need for you know depending what you would pick and that was the question i was asking about how are you going to cover east randoff north randoff south randoff randoff center and all the roads are in between and the mileage of roads in between and how are you going to provide at least some sense of equal protection or equal road coverage of traveling those roads for town life yeah that's why i asked that question because you know that's been a lot of those questions have been asked of me i said so who's going to ride by my house and work on protection like edin and what am i again you know that's because i can't remember eight people say so if we move to the town light one we kind of hit the boundaries now right you got what you need there so if we go to the town wide proposed budget that's now up to the chief and eight officers plus the admin well i'm wondering what the how what that covers then looks like on a are you you're clearly more than two on right uh i would have two per shift so instead of doing that modified where i'd have one on day one on night one in split i would do two officers per day two officers per night and four just doing well again you got all those other parts of pieces you got to plan into you know if we can depending on how schedule flows or whatever if you had another split shift that would also be beneficial but you know really you would have two officers on each shift are we at 24 hours at that point you're still looking at that seven to two am benchmark so help me under i'm a little bit lost here i'm a modified district i have two officers so i guess i'm not being clear and so you've got one officer on days so if you're interested in working two shifts from seven to or seven in the morning to four or five at night or in the afternoon and then from like say two or four in the afternoon to two am would be your night shift and then you'd have that split shift from 11 nine or whatever it's going to be most beneficial for that expanded district where you have double coverage in that mid-term kind of piece so you'd still have only two officers on with that split coverage in the townwide model you'd have two officers on days from that seven to five two officers on that nights from like that four to two or five to two am four to two excuse me four to two am kind of benchmark with no overlap and what am i doing with the others again i mean so working 10 hour shifts and that would rotate around if you've got that extra that where to say like on a thursday friday saturday night where your calls for service are more larger due to people coming and going trunk driving whatever in the case maybe you can also bridge that gap and have that split officer it's what they used to do too in in red off as well on special on thursday friday saturday night have that split officer and you'd actually have you know instead of two you'd have that third kind of roman as is as well so an officer could only cover four 10 hour shifts correct for that 40 hour and so you're talking seven days a week right so you're going to seven days a week you're not doing you're you're picking up those weekends that you're not covering now in the in the modified or with the extra officer actually in the first one correct correct you you answered my question they work and seven to five seven to five is ten hours they do it four days a week is that right correct could you maybe the next week below would like what like a proposed schedule would be maybe that would help us all understand a little bit better of how you're covering things in there so how sure if you say you had ten half fd's sure no what would you propose say schedule be sure obviously change however you need to but just just a thought which sort of break it up so you could see it i'm going more towards the you're you're right we need to understand it i was thinking more of the how are you how are we going to explain this to you know this like word in the public so if you just say well i got two officers on and under this scenario i got two officers on people are just like doing the other four i can do it if i have to well in this scenario you've got you have the potential for two vehicles overlapping great because you're you're too coming off and you're too coming on aren't necessarily that time right i think there's two pieces of capitals that need to be somehow incorporated into these budgets one is the capital vehicle purchase purchases or capital equivalent purchase called what you want to be able to rifles wherever it might be and the other piece ought to be at least some sort of a set of side fund for a public safety building for the police department because what they that decrepit thing that they have over there just isn't if i'm going to take this into the next century or whatever it may be right you got to think about it you you can't fit 10 police officers in that building right you know and you know if crime is that rampant you need a real jail right you know things such such as that but i mean look in the floor doesn't work anymore right right the hand coffin to the to the wall isn't quite probably i'm sure there's someone that will probably say that this is some kind of a violation that that's there you know so anyways when i think that to have a realistic budget and and say it does go time like i'm not for that but say it does go time right well i think you have to have some sort of capital budget so you haven't had expenditures of how you're going to do it and how you're going to have a building that adequately addresses their needs how you're going to have a equipment replacement cost and how that's going to happen because we just can't to me i'm a capital planner right so i've set up five to seven year capital plans yearly you know and i look at it and say how would we how would we put this and and and really be upfront versus well you know what i got one of the select board we need another million bucks to build a building right or whatever whatever you need to do but at least if there's a certain fund in there you know what an apartment has it they have a capital fund right that they that there comes out of their rates everybody your wastewater department has it has a capital fund that comes out of the rates and i don't think the police department should be any different at what point of um are you i mean you've got to be just about maxed out where you are now right with what you got going on so even looking at going to the modified you're going to have extra strain and and just so we're clear like we haven't had the conversation about embedded mental health worker yet or what space that's going to require and what that looks like so i i think you're so i think there's a lot more i think you go to that modified program you're out of space i just think there's a lot of spaces up where you're chatting to look at to come out with what would be somewhat realistic than just saying oh we're going to expand the district's going to cost us this much money we're going to keep this same or it's going to cost it but what's the realistic number that the tax board is going to have to pay for in and thinking about at least if anything maybe not even the building although i don't your air handling in that building is even up to any code i'm just just saying but at least having a capital equipment account you know because we know that let's face it the amount of salt the treaty the treaty puts on the roads for us out there and i'll do the roads anymore but you know vehicles just don't last five or seven years from a month before they're rusted out you know and you guys put a lot of miles on in the year they're running determine like three years is your is your useful life and we've got one vehicle at least multiple two right because the other one's a 20 so anyways i just i just think that if we can enhance those pieces of the budget they're not saying that you have to come up with an exact number but you have some thought to go into it it's like okay for a new police building it's going to be i don't know what it costs you for a firehouse so big million uh two and a half million to way king building costs four million dollars to build that and that was about 30 years ago right or whatever time was that's getting on some time you know but not that they need nothing you need something that large but i will say this thing at chapel was never a good thought but but sorry but but still i mean what are you going to do and and where is it located you know and you know i know where i think it would go and i've been trying to sell the town to move that to move that property on on what's a print street wherever the chimney is over there that you know because it's a nice piece of town that was one of the final locations when they were doing the study for the new station police station that was the location i think that was in the i know i know i built that roadway back one and then i put water and sewer over to the edge of right away just so you would have to tear up the road to hook it up or whatever you're going to build it but that was because it was sometimes tear the heck out of it when we build on it um so when we look back at this the townwide budget then we would need to um add four vehicles to that model correct that would be your replacement one and three additional right and equipment four vehicles for the whole time i'm adding four to the three or four that you already have yes and then your um six officers in that one would need all the equipment am i not is that right because you have two in one now yeah so there's 18 pounds in that and i think you i i think joe's right that at some point you got to bring in that building cost and what that looks like because i think you're you're probably at it um so these models that we have here are just a chief a certain number of law enforcement officers an admin and some part time what are the models that you've had or looked at that include we've heard mental health workers we've heard a community service officer that doesn't have to have any of the law enforcement trainings and whatnot what you want some with what you're in but more to answer the questions of i guess i don't know i didn't really understand the one when it came up but it was more of to answer the basic questions of i need help with this where do i go um not necessarily a crime has been committed or i've got a bed check or things like that but just sort of the where do i get the paperwork to file in small claims court so that's what we spend kind of more of the hands on with the admin or inward dispatchers yeah they're the ones that are kind of dealing with those hey i got a question about whatever there's resources for that piece it's not a embedded social worker because they don't have that kind of specialized training or a shape form but they're the go-to statement form here you go you know you need a crash report here you go you know those kind of parts of pieces they've always kind of been dubbed out towards those admin dispatchers you know is it something that we tack on another admin for like a night shift or piece i i don't think these models that we played out really kind of specified those kind of rules and i don't know that you have to make that service available that many in 20 hours a day you know i guess what i would you know that's going to be a piece to talk about down the road too is that if we go to a townwide service you know and we kind of briefly touched upon it about berry city not being able to handle any longer of our calls for a service do we need to expand do we need to have our own dispatch center you know those are all going to be parts of the pieces that you know would probably have to be brought up into kind of some kind of discussion for you know for and do we bring in the fire departments for those dispatch services you know with that cover costs or you know all the above but now you're talking around the clock coverage as opposed to just money through friday it's four then you're going to take on the fire department we can't schedule those calls right and and that's why i said it'd be 24 coverage as opposed to 72 i guess it's it's exploring what that looks like like what's the contract for the increased service versus the cost of another employee and i think with the other model realistically for the size scale scope of where we're at we're talking about whether we share with another entity or not when the berry model came up i don't know if something more field has any need desire if there's anybody a natural partner share the cost i think we're definitely contracting for that service and it's probably some kind of on-call type of service as opposed to trying to house somebody because the space needs that exist over there is i'm bad at seats here even that are preformed even once the appraisers move out and so if we had a community service officer i don't we're parking them in this room or somewhere else if there isn't space over there in addition to i just think it's going to be easier for that kind of any to find somebody who they could then deploy somewhere else in a full-time capacity or rotate resources through because it took the very much to find the social work piece who took them a very long time more than a year and they had like the street outreach model that's a little bit different so we just may have to pick it might even be that we picked between this or that it might be what's available does that work without so some kind of contract for service right now yeah some of it is i mean this is where i think municipalities generally let's help social work substances to source those are those not our business kind of i think we don't have any grounding in it training in it background in it right where we picked up long way make sure the roads are plowed that when you need to cop cop comes if there's a fire fire truck rolls that you know enforcement some of these things that we're being asked to take on at some point there's going to be some kind of reckoning with the state or somebody that says we need the resources and or you need to pick up your piece because for us to try to fold it in now we're now doing something brand new that isn't really in our wheelhouse i think it's difficult to ask a police officer to take a mental health role i think it's a possible because that's not where the training is that's not the train to to you know process or at least enforce the laws that are that are on that are on the books they're they're not there to be a mental health counselor or a social worker or any of that so i think it's difficult to to say we're gonna embed one versus uses the services that are already there whether they need more more support or not you know i can't say the mental health is 100% of the support that they need i don't think that they do it all however i don't think it's a role for the Randolph police department or any police department to try to take that piece of it on you know it's a it's in certain regards it's you know well it is it's a disease we have a psychiatric hospital that's that's that's located in Berlin there's special roles for for people that work in those jobs it is a role of a police officer i think now if they see someone they say you know what i think this person is really kind of having difficulties um i'm going to give a call to claire marten or you a call to whoever to come help or safe line you know you may you may want to call safe line or whatever might be and maybe make that recommendation but to say that they they should take that on their shoulders as part of the town function i don't agree with that at all in some ways it's more specific is that we there's me just we don't have any background in being a social service entity on top of it so now we're trying to recreate or create something that works for us and we get this pressure with some other things we want to take sun from energy coordinating to any other kind of sort of community oriented things that was just grant management grant so we're trying to keep fold in these things that are i think there's more today's law enforcement role has more social service to it than 20 years ago yeah i think there is a certain amount of that that they need i think it's when you get beyond that that you have the challenge so being able to communicate with people being able to suss out kind of what's going on having some level of compassion for what the person's going through and if they just need a little bit of direction or a pat on the back or whatever that's to me is different than the level of care needed sometimes for folks that goes beyond that i think that's where that seems to be the gap or whatever that folks are trying to figure out is there a way for us to meet that next gap in services beyond what law enforcement really kind of their role and trevor's right that this this seems to be a model that's coming down and i think it's needed i have no doubt it's needed and beneficial to people to receive it the question is whose responsibility is it then to provide for that service and there's a real heart a real strong feeling in the municipality world that this is being pushed down to municipalities to handle versus the state handling the state used to handle all this they had a much stronger mental health program and whatnot and it's being pushed down to the communities and communities that don't have any law enforcement and are struggling worse than we are with this but you know what i think that the question out there is what does the what does the town of randolph feel they need to address in this and what does that look like i think the state makes data in the sake of closing watery and not actually just making improvements to what they need to do there and with it it pushed a lot of things out to the towns have to take care of you know they've done the same with nursing homes right but they're getting elderly population but they won't let you build any more nursing home space you know and they say well the kids will take care of their parents but that doesn't always happen you know and so again it's pushed off away from those services well their laws haven't caught up with that model absolutely I think the agencies and there are numerous agencies that have the embedded social workers it's because they don't have any choice basically they had to do something um it's what it comes down to in contracting someone out or figuring out like what you what gap you see that it needs and maybe it's 20 hours a week or an on-call person or from some resource to try to fill that gap i'm just brainstorming because i understood what he was coming they were all talking tonight so and that was one call i mean you guys get these stats and i have personally given you what we get for mental health calls yeah and they're far in between you know can i put a full-time social worker no not at all okay you're gonna put a part-time but that's going to be a stretch yeah that's right a surprise you hear that like Claire mutton doesn't have in 24-7 365 coverage well it might be a conversation that we need to have with with other departments you know maybe Roylton and Northfield and right to Sheriffs Berlin and like i don't know at all and saying you know what are you what are you doing and do you have so again you know it's going to come back to where you know where i kind of put a stance down that i'm not going to start burning bridges for BSP i'm also hoping to utilize their invented social worker for whatever calls the service that we have why i want to also strengthen that partnership as much as i possibly can that might be another avenue that we can travel with that invented social worker that's right open to America's supposed to be get whether they filled it or not doesn't look at that way but it's supposed to happen at some point in time and they had it's been about a year they haven't filled that yet or had a successful candidate to fill that role filling roles right now at the state is extremely challenging i can tell you that we're not as competitive an employer as we were our wages aren't keeping up and our benefits are being surpassed by everybody so there is no golden benefit to coming to work at the state and we're just getting outperformed by honestly it's not just the state it's every every entity out there whether it's crosses operating and you know we don't take a little bit less insurance you know you know you just everything is just gone crazy we'll see it in the reappraisal right what's one of the housing prices going to be when the saw comes out you know just who knows what you know but you know the point is i'm like i left our place and told us what they thought it was about i said give me a check it's yours and they just laughed at me i'm like seriously the other thing is like you go to the supermarket yeah you know i i'd left i'd left shaw's up in berlin just because i weren't there so i went to berlin shaw's 172 dollars i came out with two of my bags and i'm like are you kidding me 172 dollars i'm used to making that much of me well i think we've done a stronger business tonight yeah thank you what do we what is your if you had estimate of if we had a contract for that service or i'm thinking the mental health there's a social worker or that piece of it if we assume roilton isn't going to get their position filled and we were to share the cost of somebody was that awesome say with like three i mean i would think if you don't fight out enough for a part time then you're almost looking at three so let's assume for a discussion northfield burrellton and randock went in together and hire one one person right and it that person i mean it's just hard because like how do i go to work for you and i'm on call the three departments to go 24 7 right right like that's just not realistic right and honestly and christin would be the one that would be able to tailor what other departments are doing like vsp or other ones that have the invented social worker what does that look like um i don't have that nor have i worked with a embedded social worker i've always relied on uh claire march center and things of that nature so i don't know what that looks like you know would it be ideal and handy to have a social worker ride shotgun would be a deal with the mental health crises that i respond to sure absolutely but that's also if you're firing between as you saw the stats i had three last month as opposed to who knows why but that can be changing next month um you know it's hard to predict that and especially with what you just said how do you put a embedded social worker in charge of through towns we might be talking about two separate contracts to you there might be sort of a social worker piece or a mental health care focused piece there might be sort of a street outreach worker which has some of that training maybe hits on some of the substance abuse slash how do you plug into the support systems that make you show up in some kind of interaction with law enforcement we may even be trying to layer on those types of agreements if we can contract with somebody or pay for service they've got to figure out the 24-7 staffing they can maybe pull from different resources so we may even be looking at kind of two pieces for the same overall contract value and i try to remember what my wife said they pay for their proportion and share of those up their way and we're talking about a much scaled back version of that so what they were also talking about say for example um the Royalton Barracks was trying to partnership with the Claire Martin Center that social worker was a Claire Martin worker if you will and was assigned to the Royalton Barracks that might be another avenue where that would be a Claire Martin clinician that's assigned to the Randolph PDE or Royalton PDE or vice versa but that's where that contract kind of piece comes into do they get like a stipend for responding to a Randolph calls or Royalton calls or whatever i don't know how that works so we're trying to have one person respond to everything and they're getting crispy so yeah and uh at Gifford though right when they have somebody come in that needs those type of services they call and Claire Martin sends somebody there or they don't do anything they have their own but it's usually screened out by the Royalton Center and more often than not you're doing it via phone call or a zoom meeting with the person that's out of control that's out of control typically they send a set of nurse to watch and keep the person safe you know we have what we call you know it's as you as central month we have you know a certain amount of rooms that are safe rooms right so they you know they're psychiatric rooms and with it they may be held in there until the next disposition happens of where they're going to go sometimes they're in there for several days sometimes they're not however um and Gifford has in their ED they have a room or two that they have the roll down to protect all the oxygen on the wall and all the things that they have to attack and and they can protect that room they have lockable cabinets but that's about it or they didn't put the roll downs in there so anyway that's one room i thought they were going for two so i'm sorry i'm not up to different days i know what we have at central mont you have a nice facility at central mont you know it's just that much larger you know that many more people and that many more issues if you will but it's secure where gifford is not secure why we have to deal with them running out the ER at the chance they get you know the difficulty is is that it's the type of hospital right so there's cah hospital critical access hospital versus say more full service hospital so critical access 25 beds yet basically critical access hospitals are sort of around to stabilize you and if you if you had something that was beyond a certain level then they're gonna helicopter you take you to that to the to a bigger place that has more capabilities you know and vermont has you know 14 hospitals of which i want to say eight of them at least cah hospitals you know so they don't have that that type that type of service to a uvm medical center has two complete floors i want to say probably 67 beds that are ip people in patient psychiatry beds it's it's it's it's a challenge you'll either way because a place like gifford they're setting a nurse down or maybe calling for the police department to come and watch over this person until the next disposition happens that's reason that one i think we should keep talking about anything and we'll keep twisting the rubik's until we find something to hang as i can see the challenge if you're if you're sharing a person involved you need them at the same time or the person's just come from a call and it's also the toughest part to to embed is if like scott says so this month we had three calls that we may have been able to use uh you know a mental health professional on and so you may have had three calls those three calls might have encompassed say six hours two hours a piece to whatever softball police only for six hours a whole month you know right right you know you know that's that's that's hard to do to find that that person i'm not doubting that there is that somebody doesn't want to start a new company of right just having these people on staff they can send to different locations you can't afford the liability insurance on that although the travel time right there's a lot of liability there you know there is no perfect answer so should we just like see who's nearby right like what is the dating app that you can attend is it a tinder where you can see who's near you or whatever where is the closest one i want to be you're advertising that way then you get the wrong advertisement so but we just heard some pretty funny stories that's the other one any clue about it but okay and you get what you need to to move forward with the next have we spun it around enough for tonight or i'm good i'm thinking about what i'm going to eat for dinner it's time to go okay uh benchmarking exercise uh we sent you the latest one yeah if anything else research follow-up or tasks for the next meeting i think we've got a few related to get your marketing orders you want to talk real don't you communication and correspondence you want to talk real do i want to talk about real not not here you're looking at me like you happy to talk with you next up is adjournment