 Good afternoon from my side See all here late afternoon last session before Drinks or whatever we get. Let's see. Hopefully something interesting. My name is Margaret Franz. I am from Siemens Technology, which is the central R&D inside Siemens. My colleague wasn't able to join because of Visum problems not arrives in time He sent his regards. I I assume he will be watching virtually my side Thanks for having me I want to cover industrial world and Industrial world connected to these new kids of the block block chains and identities, especially self-serving identities I'll Assume there, you know what who Siemens is large German-based international company 180 years Some hundred thousands employees and so on I you can look it up. I will not go to In the details or areas details Will more cover how we use this why you use it and what it make the benefit in the industrial world so We are part of the project ID Union. It's a German funded project When you looked up the my presentation from last hyper ledger the global forum you will see an introduction I will only cover parts of this here and we target Natural person legal entities and things and the things not the One side of the things the hard side of the things so the industrial things so From ID Union We managed since last year to bring up our first really major milestone, which is Establishment of the non-profit European cooperative this will be the one that our test net which runs since 2020 will be covered and There will be there will be a new one which goes to pilot into production and Therefore want to have the governance organization and an organization, which will offer this to European market The other is we're working with different other projects in a consortia and other being active like here in Joining the European identity wallet consortium that we are our focus or one of our focuses is the organizational digital identity So there are natural persons legal entities here organizations and things so from our use cases we cover broad range a lot of use cases using our test nets as mentioned and for this talk It's about industry and IOT and there you see master data management. I think for the should be the pointer that better for the people online So industry IOT What is industry legal entities? We're working together the supply chains buying and at the end Somewhere in the end. We are the end customers as natural person because we buy it and have to pay all this and we all know that a Lot buzzwords like IOTs and blockchain you always have to know what does it mean and Looking at something like IOT is most less kind of edge device and an edge device for me is Processing information your physical IO whether it's your mobile phone. We are your physical IO or your car or other devices and There you have some compute power and it's an at the end of the day Always who has the ownership of what and how's the communication flow and how secure in the industrial world? It's more complex because it's not one-to-one offering. It's a lot of Devices which Do the work which generate the money at the end of the day It's called OT operational technology and the IOT is a new kid on the block helping the OT Generating money making more efficient and more insights and so on you all might Be familiar of this, but you have to understand that there are a lot of parties working a lot of supplier have to be in the factory or in other Machineries bring together the result. So they come together work together and The systems are special configured to have special communication and so on So industry is the right side and industry is not Enterprise IT enterprise IT is just only IT and will reach humans at the end of the day here It will be a belt or a controller for something is at the end a sensor that something happens so and Every of these products which are running there have a life cycle It's designed It's engineered it's produced and then it goes to operation and During the life cycle there can be a one second or third life because it might be resolved and the next one is using it and Out of this it will be decommissioned and recycled. This is the normal life cycle of product industrial product and You will as consumer most likely never see the controller in the factory floor, so and Nowadays what's happened a lot of information technology comes in called IOT in over the OT helping as said, but also where is his New regulations coming up and other information like European green deal sustainable product in a particular economy and so on Where more information is needed about the device and some you get out of the specs and some you have to collect your life cycle cause your your your energy consumption in the floor whatever you produce you have to measure that you know, okay, this was my Energy I have produced that I know that my plant has to use this amount of energy when you just look at energy or The device what is the footprint of a device? Yeah, and the device is built throughout the supply chain So this is Changer an additional changer about how many data do I need to fulfill my task build something being compliant and have what data do I need and which data do I have to share because sharing in the supply chain is something which Companies only do when they are secure that their Sensitive data how it is built and so on are not viewable so It's easier when you're in a newer plant. We already collect a lot of data where you can Do all the things and connect and you know how to do it But industry is also there's invest and then vest has to generate money and not cost every day More money so and there's life cycle and the life cycle in industry if you have energy plant or you have a train or even You own a car, you know it Hopefully runs for 10 plus years or so. Yeah, so an IT always moves in a speed of the light compared to industry Development and operations so Here you have a lot of challenges and which we have to deal like Concept on at IOT Connecting to the OT gets the data out and do something useful Generate value But the longevity has to be somehow secured then Since the connection came into every device What does it mean? How to secure how to update? So the benefits came with some drawbacks. Yeah, there's connectivity and you have to manage how to do this normally You just shield your device that nobody goes out But something has to do it out especially when you have to generate new data and has to be shared Yeah, how to do this how to bring this out? Yeah, so up patches updates life cycle management Then these new legal requirements you have to somehow find your way around this for instance for patching Small footprint is about the civil infrastructure platform, which we funded in together with other partners 2016 about Do Linux kernel support for more than 10 years because when you take classical desktop Linux is you get for three to five years. Yeah, so that's you have to do and Let's go to ID union and those dust reviews cases or the middle Pillai I address at the beginning and The good and the bad part is The devices evolve get more smart and IOT is just a smart device and smart is just a computer in the device but smart also means more Flexible computation not the classical OT designed to the spot To the price point which only does what it is used to Yeah, so it must be a little bit more Or you have these industrial edges, which does bring new computers in close to the machine and communicate with the machine and so the devices have evolved from Getting the information about the asset the device being more passive Yeah, you have a plate on it the name plate which gets more digital get the information from this plate And an industry followed. Oh the digital twin of the device is called as an administration shell Which holds the information of the device that someone who needs it can Ask about the device and really managed and this as a relation shell Can we it's it's described and then File how in the window when you have the static version how you use it Yeah, and when you add now our wonderful verifiable credentials Then you can do a lot more about because what which device and how you work with it So we introduced Very probably dentures together to the devices and the digital Quinn and when you go to industry fall out Oh, you see the value chain Which is more or less produce something will produce to which the next one Takes to produce something the next one take to produce something until it will reach the one who? Is the end customer might be a company or? or My consumer and consumer so when you build Through this down your health is there are these three point freckle about There's an operator where something runs something will be produced and the machine supplier Who are the opera the device many phase the factory operator buys a machine? Get this component So and the question is when you want to have the information about the component which is in the manufacturer do you know it will the provider of the machine will give you the information and Well, because you see something could be improved when this component behaves different and the Use case was could we have new business models with collaborative condition monitoring of the component in a machine? Yeah, and then you get to the problem that do you know the component supplier in the machine with the man effect machine manufacturer give you the information about his supplier and This is a data sharing which makes a little bit the world different how to reach the point in the supply chain which you want to work with as operator so These we work with all these Questions in these associations because at the end of the day when we do something it Has to fit to the whole industry so the the end customer building a Computer or a car is not interesting. He has a lot of suppliers in his plant and in all the in between Only if it's interesting and it fits with when the supplier align on one setup so Getting the information is whether it's you as a customer or a supplier a lot of information you get from the website product information Then you normally asked I need more hardness of the information show me please some credential proofs and so on and How and when you still have said okay, yes You told me you are certified by ABC. Can you check it or do you just believe it today? You just believe it what was verified credential you could move on to say okay these proof origin and take it to expiration date And so on can be all digital managed Yeah, and this is goes back and forth to say okay is the company really the company I'm talking to Is the information really from the company who provides the information to the company? I'm talking to and so on and and we all know that Prod is out there and supply chain will do a lot to find out whether this payment is right to the right company and so on and You can bring more hardness in this information more verification in when you use The verifiable credential and identity approach so If you had this triangle with down to the component supplier where these small little Colored icons are asset administration shells so little twin of the device You could do this when you say okay I have a connection in the digital twin of information or in the device is information about the manufacturer Or the components about the manufacturer that you can that you have an Opportunity to connect to him and do what the use case is So when you take Organizational identities, yeah, and you introduce these Wallets for the companies and the identities companies and you have the you can work on that the Component in the machine in the by the operator as credential from The component supplier which is in the machine At the beginning else you wouldn't see what's in the machine So and how you could approach this and what I've done in our union is okay. We have first step to have Organizational identities and when you have organizational identities you can do things like Connects the customer supplier. So this is a classical peer-to-peer and have the corporate buyer presenting the the credential he gets from his company and Connect to the supplier and the supplier can say okay. I know no you're a Corporate buyer. I Know your company because it's in the credential. I can ask for the public debt because it's in get more information And vice versa. That's the customer can ask. Okay at the end of the day you will send me in An invoice and I have to pay so I have to do everything to do to check what I have to do when I Want to onboard you at the beginning getting a lot of information bank account and so on and this We used in the setup you see in the middle here Some companies issuing credentials from the right side to the left side that comets bank issues A credential to Bosch or to Siemens to see okay Yes, this is really the organization. So target has checked like an EV certificate You are was checked and you get from someone else a certificate that you are a company and When you get from the bank certificate that you are a bank and and and and and yeah You can say okay. What do you need to fulfill your needs in terms of legal requirements being? compliant and For for redemption. Yeah, because nowadays you need a lot of information. Is this child labor in the supply chain or whatever? how to Have the information from your supplier or from your customer because you only are allowed to do business and have to check And you Based on anti money laundering and so on Who do you make business and here you have no an Automated way to get all these information to say okay And I know new the customer knows his suppliers apply another customer and can check how the relation is between the bank account and the organization or the vet number or the global location number and It's something more than just nowadays a lot of filling out excel sheets or printing out Something having a PDF and this can be automated What we have shown in this interop plug fest these company came out together Supply says and for the the largest Demo was and B2B online checkout Clicking and by clicking the QR code the connects to the supplier the supplier asks the company of See purchaser and back-and-forth and then when you say okay, I have all the information I need to do the business I can put it to my internal IT which We all have to say Yes, it will be shipped to you. Yeah, because I know and know how to send the invoice for and and You know which you're dealing and all your other requirements you have for making business with me is okay so we have the organizational part then it's about humans Yeah, how to connect and as said there is these as an administration shell as did the twin Which you can look in what is the information so called sub models which describe these information about the device and There you can look at it with the software on the right side the ASX server which will display it and Nowadays you'd this the set up which is existent is there's nobody connect server and the CAs and so on but if you add the credential of An employee of the of the customer Yeah, who can connect there or for the manufacturer that you don't don't allow just whole Siemens to Connect to the machine, but someone who can prove that he is from Siemens and only these five or 20 people so just do the magic with Excessing this by having your credential Simple with your email address in the wallet which says okay I'm from Siemens and I want to look in then Interops with open ID gets a token and I can access So this would be the human part which is going in and then the next thing was hmm What do we do when we know the new one part, but? The industrial part is a little bit more difficult Yeah, because the devices are shielded as said our environment. They can't just Watch as a QR code for initiate connection They in the factory floor you find a lot of different bus systems. Where do you want to? kick in with this all What do we have tried out was? Smart devices How can we come in? Do this that authorization can be done from the device To the company and to people and to other devices so from device to device The paper should be out. I'll when I painted this last week. It was not not not online it will come because it's Conference which is yesterday starts for the week in mitweiler but Maybe I updated when when I have the right link. This is now the link to the conference page so And we made this in a project called rail chain Side project where we tried. Okay. Let's do this on a real device on a real big long device Which has a lot of components in it? get to the information and Because Deutsche Bahn Operating these devices Said okay when I could have this what could I do? Yeah, I know that this device is really from the manufacturer Siemens or whatever and Because I can ask the device. Yeah, so it's not a fake device and there was some fraud in between It's really I can ask it so it only would they would have to have the The key material to bring it in That our device is is really 100% faked. Yeah, so a lot more and you find a lot of Rebuild devices out there in the market and this would be approached when all the other Supplier also align on this that you can have okay This is one set I can see from the door element to the HVAC to the whatever to the whole train That is really from the supplier so The other is you when you collect the information about The system you can have the asset description from the business from the technology from the runtime information To the next point that you have the information over the lifetime of the asset when you sell the Small part or the large part to the next one and give the next wire the information This has happened to the device and I can prove it so Starting with yes, we exchange at the beginning our identities between supplier and like I showed and the customer Checking this with your internal IT and Everything's in the additional information is we know have the ditch did Informations of the deep document and all this and know how we can connect to this and then He buys Deutsche Bahn buys a machine from us a component or a train Yeah, so in the component already is technology Which is in the described on the paper? it's To make it small it just uses DITCOM and basic messages Yeah, that we don't have to go to the ledger because the owner the manufacturer is known It's it's trusted because it goes in at the beginning Yeah, so and then Deutsche Bahn would say okay. I bought the device No, I want to be the owner Device said okay. I don't know you I only you know Of my current owner so it will ask us okay. This is okay. We will say okay Yes, we know or all paper or IT Says you have bought it. Yes please check whether Deutsche Bahn can talk to you the Credential way and Take a new credential and put in the new owner So this was then we're going a step down or will be deleted has to be implemented the way that there's no a new owner of the device and This is the ownership comes that now you can do a lot more example was maintenance so the maintenance company which does the Maintenance at the devices now can get a Potential that they allowed and this day to do this or that to that device or this region of devices and so on and You can help us that your door or your plant will be opened You can go in if you can prove or you come to the device They all will ask you who are you I will not open the door and you I will not open the screen for the engineering You change the engineering parameter parameter, but if you show me your credential by signed by my owner Then I open up the screen and you can change the engineering parameters. Yeah, and then at the end the Maintenance partner should Issue a credential what this has happened I currently write down a lot so you can collect all this over time to have this Audit trail of information of your device so you did a detainee really enriched and whether it's in the device or it's Connected to the device and runs nearby or in the cloud. It's implementation detail how you do this And so this was a proof of concept with this called to be done and it was done on real devices Yeah, so they have a advanced train lap this is a Train an old I see train which is allowed to drive Yeah, you have to have to be careful not to lose your drive from it. So you can't do only special things We have done this there we showed this last year at the digital rate convention and The week before last week driving around and in Berlin and show this to the public and the press and so on Presenting or two use cases the one I just showed you I guess it as an identity and tracking and the other use case was replacing the back box blocks by a blockchain Which is distributed over the train a local blockchain? Yeah, so that you only not only have one Jury the recorder you have some copies of it and if an incident is will the whole train we destroy then or there at least one copy free and during night or stop you could copy it out and Though we tested this with real Access to the bus system. So the old one as an MVP bus the newer one have profibus We get the information which is currently recorded and you can record more information that the current recorder records And there are a current recorder which it was the one here down here is A harsh environment Device but in future System architectures you will have more and more computing power Like all links and so on they're working on that you can say okay if I have space I can't just put it in and collect the information and Because of a lot of suppliers which go in such a device the big one. Yeah, no, you know, you have one piece of truth We say okay. I know what has happened there because the recording has done so this was a summary of Hyperledger in the end blockchain on track is on track Was on track runs on tracks because you see the next stop will be The next week or week after at InnoTrans the big fair in Berlin where the train will run again and These two use cases. I showed you will be there and The other is ID Union working on this stuff. We have from tax office To health care. This one's a box there. So we could elaborate about all this but this would be some hours more and I Think your schedule is not so that we can do this Yeah Arias which we tried out how to get it as small as possible Is it's doable so the Raspberry Pi's? Power would be enough. Yeah Depending on so it's it's about how new devices has to be developed and how much resources you will have in there Yeah, for industrial companies, you have now a new option to secure information To do business and select which business you want to share or have to share on this way Throughout the value chain and throughout the value chain Tomorrow Andreas Kint will give this more information about doing this for CO2 information of devices because you have to all Collect these I have your bomb list find out which CO2 footprint your component really has to give it to the next customer Which needed for the next customer in the supply chain have a look there and I think we have seven minutes for question because thank you for your attention This was one deep dive or no, I was a highlight of flying We were not down to crypto and not off of the bus system of industrial stuff. Yeah, but The main message is IOT and industrial IOT are totally different things because on the one side is When your next flip doesn't run how much money does we're talking about and get you something egg When the factory can't produce We will be in a big trouble when we are one of the supplier Yeah, so because it generates money a lot of money and it has to and it's good Yeah, but this is service a life cycle and you have to solve all these challenges I brought up a little bit different life and The magic is how to survive CIT life cycle. So thank you and I'm open for questions Oh It's a verify the credential and it's the system which we set up was there's already an Invitation link in the device that he can connect to us. Yeah, so these we have to overcome this first connection Yeah, how you get the device which is somewhere in the world will be switched on and The owner can decide whether it's allowed in the onboarding phase to go to the internet Or use it and it would be like the old device using. Yeah, was the new stuff It would say, okay, I want to take over the ownership. So he has to ask Okay, not everyone who switches on will have to get the ownership. Yeah, it's about how to boot this and then This was on the or you can read it afterwards when he's out on the right side where you see that The first is you have to go to the ledger once But after this you can do all peer-to-peer from device to device because you know, okay If it there's a credential coming in And it's signed by the owner. I'm believing this and do the connection or open something or whatever in there Because you don't want to go to the ledger at the end of the day when we read of industrial and read of Speak of devices with speed of massive scale Yeah, it's not just seven billion people and all the classical customer IOT devices There are a lot of devices And you will not cover this with connecting this to the ledger Especially not when it's not allowed because it's it's sealed environments. Yeah, so how to to manage this Yeah, so You can do a lot with with caching so when you would say, okay, you're a little to twin is more in a kind of Where I have it I had it on somewhere Here if you go more to caching That you have the information regularly updated or so and then you can do this to say how much of the Existing Areas in the set up you want to have how to connect there and how much do you want to do? Okay, I only have partly because my owner will not change his did Yeah And how is The connection to the other devices might be from other manufacturer. Yeah, so I don't want to know that the other device from other manufacturer I Just want to know if the ownership of the other device and I'm my my device have this now the new both the same owner Yeah, then they allowed to talk Yeah, so it's only the the owner and more the device doesn't have to know but The device don't have an own will you have to program the will what is allowed to do? Yeah, this is our policy or they call it because it doesn't it will not Take out the mobile phone and point to a QR code Yeah, everything what's happening you have to be in there or can be added and here the owner can add everything But the interpretation of what is added has to be programmed I think the second question The essence this this is industry for the low Yeah, you can go to Japan or so it's it's it's come you don't have to this is just one Digital twin approach Yeah, so in Manufacturing industry as an administration shell can be used But you can use it also without any as an administration shells. Yeah, it's just about where do you have and hold this information? No, no, no, it's a specification out of industry photo and there are implementations like these showed you here on the Here on the bottom this as an application shell explorer here This is a piece of software. It's open source There's a lot of links and the footnotes where you can look it up And the out of industry photo the industry digital to twin organization was built Association was built and There you can you find there's one link for the video for accessing here with you with the credential of the email to a running as a Administration shell explorer. Yeah, so this is there's open source out there and the specifications are also out there It's not a Siemens product also Yeah, that what I mentioned we work in associations because we all Meet others and competitors on the same environment at customer site and customers will not just take Siemens although we would like it any additional questions or time for One last They are different so we're working with the other with life and with BC gov and so on So this is Glyph came out of the financial industry because of fraud and so on and Yes, like I mentioned with the use case for organizational IDs Where how much organizational IDs can you get for who has what and What we are striving is at the end there must be Interability of these also in the first slide I had with European Union organization ID which will come out the IDAS to Regulation but as international company there's Europe and there's the world you have what is the right approach? How much letters in these do you need the worldwide? at least three or so Japan America's Europe or so and How will the life is working on this verifiable line numbers Yeah, which you'll find online from them which they use carry for this and we use our Hyperledger Indy and we and they we working with them how to interop So all this is technology and it ends our day here. You only we're working on an identity ecosystem That's mean. Okay. It has to go and to interop first with These 99.999 percent brownfield out this out there The world as it is because you do not start with anyone it has to fit to existing like these OICD stuff and so on and glife Which org ID you need depends on what the customer believe you have to have It's like the payment in a shop when you belong payment System is not mentioned And you can't buy something yeah Yeah, there's only paypal and x and y and but you want this bank x and he don't do this offer to pay So it's at the end of the day it comes out What will be the European regulation we are having in? Identity of all legal entities in Europe that you know, okay this Spanish or Polish or German Institute Special legal entities are not covered with all the registers out there Although we have in our project also the German Bundesantzeiger which issues the hundreds register so for the larger companies, but then we have the transparency registry, but what is the register where is a? A town registered or a doctor and so on so we have the German printing ID company we have all banks in Germany because we have the different the organization bank for lag and finance group The Dutch by Castle and Norseenschaften Banking so because and last year the regulation of the German ID was Changed and the anti-money laundry that in the future you can do stuff with the smart EID Which is a copy of your German physical card in the in the wallet in your? smartphone Yeah, and there it starts when you have this you can go to Procura listed in some registry to say okay This is really the company and and and so therefore the start was a human setting up a company a company because Corporation acts throughout humans So it's it's from the bootstrapping and you can have credentials for governmental use cases, but the larger part will not be Either substantial or high yeah You will have use cases like I said and when you want to do this outside Europe Yeah, how to manage this you need one approach and then different ledgers How the wallets will behave and when you see that the the Lissy agent? So the smartphone wallet already checks whether there might be a new proof that there is and Kuwaks or An EV certificate of for the domain gives a more hardness for the initial connection and so on And so it's a lot of work This what you just Wanted now This is now flowing down into all the deployments And we will see that soon being backed up by other means ensuring the end points like referencing the IDs Depending on which letter it is it doesn't matter So So What we all need is one base layer of technology which can work together, and this is what we're working on Yeah, and whether you Need the customer will ask for life or the cost for a detrust or a Targon's Org ID as long as okay, there's a credential with the schema and you believe this is an org ID There's there will be the It's a German project We were going European with our cooperation or cooperative and There will be the large-scale pilot next year for wallets and We are a part of the consortium which submitted for this Large-scale pilot and they see all the the different member states which are in this Consortia Yeah, because at the end of the day the European legislation has to come and then the implementation access To do something so for the European level I think you will need three to five years It's still For So it's it's it's open. It's not profit you can't be a member You have to check the details whether it makes sense for you or not But at the end there is something needed how to bring this to the next stage Yeah, we we started this with at the beginning that not oh, let's do three year Research project having fun this technology and then put it in the drawer and put it in You can't imagine how much legal stuff and work has to be done and we have two Smaller companies of Germany and one Austrian company because they have at least two member states to just start it Yeah, all the the legal administration stuff getting an account and We are close to getting in the registry So if you want to all the regulation right you have to find the right thing to get it done But it's now the first stage has been done and now it's basically When we have created this new piece completely I definitely think this is a great idea and I expect that lots of organizations throughout Europe and the other three countries That's good, we are fine with this because I'm hope it's really cool, but we also have people who work in EPC and So they have different meaning Small organization Yeah, so man last question Company end Yeah Yeah, so this was one is who can act on behalf of a company Yeah, this would be a credential for the CEO's procure or whatever Yeah power of attorney and the other is what I had in The use case here That you have not he's just this is my Siemens badge It's about I can prove that I'm a Siemens employee and I'm a buyer or so Yeah, so all out of the the supply chain department that I can click on here this webshop and The system starts. Yeah, so you have the first connection and based on my credential the supplier can Connect to the dear to the DID information the ID document of my company and then they can Send credentials back and forth whatever it's needed It's it's I just haven't mentioned it because it's doable. We have shown this That it's doable Yeah Here the talk was more on how to the next step Yeah, so company and so company and Natural persons you could have a lot of credentials in your wallet from Your sports club To your company is just another relation where you get okay. Yes, I'm a member of the sport lot but I'm an employee of my company and Then it's dependent on what should be in there whether is you get some money Left in your gym because your member or Which information and for which credential you want to use and you get from your company? Yeah, so you could take this to say okay I know have the information and or have several Credentials for my employee for my my company to say okay One batch is the one credentials just for entering the compound or so. Yeah, or the the building the other is for special credentials for these buyers whatever you a Large corporation is consists of a lot of companies. Yeah, like When I mentioned here when you look at this there's immense on the device as a besides of the door for Setting up this this room Yeah, this is Siemens building technology which is headed in Switzerland now which is Siemens part. Yeah, so Siemens has industry Siemens has civil infrastructures and Siemens has Mobility also the train stuff and so on as was this and International you always have a lot of and and even in the internal money flow and When you look in what your treasury use internal system do checks throughout the different parts of the company you can automate a lot and Yes, this is all done because fraud is Here. Yeah, look how ABB has lost a lot of money Well for the finance a guy in in Asia and so on. Yeah, so this The invoice coming in and the checks on do I really pay it when this would be in place? I think it's a beginning you you could do a I Think 80% of the fraud with corona wasn't be doable. Yeah, because you can say okay This is a company and this is a bank account of the company Yeah, a lot what you can check. Yeah, okay There will be others who will try to find out what the floor in this system Let's see But at least it is looks like it will be a lot better than what we have currently And that's what's all about it will not solve hunger or peace or whatever But is a good from my point of view and this is what I'm working there is a Good step in the next direction here. It was I was just the the Web shop. Yeah, it was semi automated at the end of the day you can automate edit To show this you have to see okay. There's really the credential coming in and it's shown from the buyer and yes the bank account and which was which was the Issuer of the bank account credential. Yeah, this was really commands bank or another bank and so yeah And you can look it up at the ledger and if you say, okay, they have to have a glyph Credential or information in the did document or you can ask the bank for a glyph Yeah, then it all comes together to say, okay I can now start depending on my needs what I want to check To be on the secure way Because as written compliance and fraud prevention. Thank you and I'm will be there upstairs