 Trying to look at all the things on his shelves that are like good things that I know he's gonna say stupid shit that kind of Make me not want those good things to be in there With your paraphernalia and it pisses me off. Yeah, I was gonna say I thought it was witcher Yeah, Jesus Christ is he had he has like an actual Polish version of the game on the top shelf just above his head to the left What the fuck man I can't really read any of those ps4 boxes You desperate to be like what else is there? What else do you like on this desk? So it's like I want to make sure that okay blue yeti. I have a blue yeti, too You're not allowed to do well actually blue yeti's are factually shit. So I guess I can't really Maybe at this point, but like, you know, they're pretty good for the price range Yeah, I mean, that's why I have one because it was like the mic I wanted to have I was like, oh, yeah $500 Fuck Marvel he can't like that She fuck he's got so much witcher shit It's like how do you like something good, but then also like something really fucking terrible Yeah, well, we'll probably have to mention it a few times, but rags is not here currently He he does want to be here. He's gonna jump in the second. He's available and well, you know They'll be planning to cover. I'm sure he won't miss out. He'll be fine And yes, how is everybody welcome to what are we calling this again every frame of pause? e-fap abbreviated a Name hey man, you know if you draw anything from that abbreviation that's down to you It has nothing to do with us look at guys this this usually goes on for about four to five hours It's time to get your e-faps on guys you're gonna hear all these voices I'd say shit like, you know, you're gonna e-fap this video Sure, man. Oh man. I'm already e-fapping Yeah, we all e-fap together like the audience is here with with the process that is e-fap So yeah, I mean come on It's just three guys over the internet e-fapping is a totally natural thing for three guys on discord to do together Oh, yeah, I probably should do the actual Normal thing and be like we have a guest today Mr. Smud boy who I who have actually been on your channel twice before you still haven't seen solo yet Have you that was our last thing we talked about you should see that so we can we can we can rip into it Oh bless your fucking soul if that's the case. Well, he told he told me to and I never got around It's a good time to invite them back so I could actually watch the thing and we can talk about it Because I'd be like, oh geez I have no time to do anything So I might get around to I think it's on DVD now. I could probably get a good copy. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely can and it's It's not as like we're all we're all this right wolf. It's not as bad as the last Jedi. It's just so mediocre I suppose you put it that way Yeah, it's not as bad. Thanks They won't be as painful to get through because I mean at least there's some shit. That's like laughable like the room kind of laughable. Oh, that's okay The thing we don't even it's they're gonna love the the feminist robot ruined land over the better parts of it Chewbacca gets to actually affect things more than usual If because he's got nothing to do in Disney Star Wars Usually he just he's very static people have said he's the same in the OT He's not the same in the OT He actually does stuff in the OT like repairing through C3PO is actually pretty Useful and you know, it makes sense that because he's he's you would be good with mechanical stuff if he's he's not like Ray He's not just good at everything and yeah and shooting and stuff But like, you know, he chills with the Porgs for the most part in the last Jedi, which is just like oh dear You're really running out of things for him to do This is the thing it's like just let I think a lot of people point out it's like chewy without Han it is difficult to write that and you probably should have just dropped them both or Really figured out what you're gonna do with the chewy But this film actually has him doing stuff feel like beats the shit of people when I saw the Yeah, you're good. I was pretty finished on that. Oh I remember before the Force Awakens came out I saw this fucking I saw one of the trailers where Ray lifts her head up and she's crying and you can't see What's below her but it looked like Chewbacca's fur and I was like does Chewbacca die in this movie? Honestly, he probably should have It'd be weird like oh god. What are you doing with Chewbacca now? Oh, I saw there's an actor from one of One of the original movies he's reprising his role Little munchkin. What the hell are those guys called? Ewoks. Oh, yeah, so he had an interview today with some Entertainment magazine is like, oh, that's nice He's getting a job. Okay, so I guess there's Ewoks in the next film Who knows who knows what we're good. Thank goodness. Yay Also my agging a bit a little yeah You hear me? Yes, we can. Oh, you can yes. No, we can't I'm still waiting for it on discord. It's so distract Guys don't take dicks in the chat I know it's e-fap, but you got to keep that like Out of the chat under the rain to keep that to yourself guys mallet when Yeah, mallet when's when are you gonna introduce us to mall. No idea what your problem is Stupid into that. It's never clear. I shall interact with the chat rhino milk That's gonna be a thing. Oh, that should be accounted for actually. Can you can you actually hear me right now? Am I still slamming around? Yes, yeah, you're fine. Okay It still seems like I'm delayed probably which I just have to deal with right now. Um The the guy we covered in the last podcast um He unlisted the video In response if you will and he said that he wants to make a new one That is more civil and addresses the topic in that he's sharing his opinion rather than trying to say we were objectively wrong Um, and on top of that, he's supposed to be coming on the next uh next week's e-fap. So Oh boy, let's see how that goes. Um, we'll probably have a cinema sins video We'll try and find to to respond to it. Look at Jared's deviant art. I didn't know he had a deviant art Oh, he does actually. Yes, I've I do you have the link for that. I really want to see it now Someone tweeted at me actually. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm pretty sure I got it on twitter So you would have been at it on that if you can find it Hey, I've had so many I've had like 500 notifications in the last hour. I'm not gonna be able to find it someone tweeted at me Okay, so right now to the wolf I want to see what art because I've already seen his rags art, which is Beautiful, so I really want to see what other masterpieces Jared genesis has made and oh my god people keep doing the the rhino in the milk emojis Wait, someone said more. Can you watch more of this is the critic subjectivity war? Is that the one? The little potato made because I have seen that and it's very funny. There's a lot of work that went into it to be honest in terms of uh image masking or at least putting things on top of stuff and uh, he did share it to the discord So it was good stuff. And yeah, hopefully rags will be here soon But until until he is we could always respond to first video is gonna say I did say that we would do it last podcast and I forgot but there were the reason a lot of people were like Why did you um Uh, we said something on lines of like being called white supremacist by uh in relation to the black panther video When he doesn't say anything like that I was like no What I was talking about was there were comments that said it and we were hoping and we said this at the beginning We were hoping that he didn't imply that at all about my video or yours Or anyone else's and he doesn't uh in fairness, which is something that we appreciate He didn't actually go that go the route of saying that we were racist And that's why we didn't like black panther. He literally just stuck to the uh inconsistent arguments So There was a comment uh that did say that and if if once rags issue we uh, we can Just read it out with him because obviously he was there for all the things So until then we can check out this first video if if you're both uh on board with that, are you? Well, let's do it I'm definitely delayed considering how long that took you guys to respond Oh What are you not missing much that the chastis filled with rhinos and milk? So rhinos and milk Well, I'm I'm not what was that? I'm not a hundred percent sure that we're actually like Fucking functional right now. I don't know if I should just go and restart my internet fully Instead of waiting until I fucking disconnect to do it Duh So awkward because I usually connect with I've got wi-fi and then ethernet and if either one of them doesn't work I use the other but right now wi-fi is just apparently not even responding to existence and ethernet is all flaky so That's that's where I'm at And I would fix this problem if I it wasn't a problem before I hit start streaming everything was fine up until that This is just like uh, thanks And I can't I can't did you run a speed test? I mean, yeah, well the it was fine like um There was no reason to assume anything was going to go wrong and it must be tied to the fact that I'm streaming discord still says I'm disconnected from someone asked how's the socialist wi-fi Oh, yeah, we have shit wi-fi here overall I really want um Just to move to a place that just has amazing, uh internet That'd be nice if I'm gonna choose a place to move south korea There you go. I'll go right there But yeah, it's gonna be awkward to try and because I need yeah if you're gonna choose a place to live for internet Don't choose australia So I was gonna say like I could just I was like you guys can continue while I restart my instant. I was like, but uh, this is my stream So couldn't work out very well, is it? Maybe you can just push the stream somewhere else I'm gonna I'm gonna try one quick fix. It doesn't work. We'll just carry on my stream might go down But it should be back up quickly. Okay, so be right back We shall return chat. We'll just we'll just talk amongst ourselves then Venezuela or they see that as a complete dodged bullet to be honest with you They were like, oh, thank god that controversy came out well after that game was sort of, you know in the past I should know it's four fucking years ago. God damn I'm almost exactly four years ago on a completely unrelated topic. The fff thing is now really That uh, Brett Kavanaugh joke about uh, what the all the f's mean But I was talking to the wonderful side of politics this twitter day so Yeah, I don't want to google that too much just to find out what that means But it's going to be really disappointing if you're like, where does this f thing come from? You're like, oh, it's full of duty Okay And then you find out kevin space he was in that game and it's like, oh no, no No, no Oh, I watched the usual suspects recently and I was like, oh, I forgot he was in it. Oh, well It's fine. It's just you can't it really disappoints me. You have to you see it He was also like, oh, right. Yeah, all that shit that happened. Oh, yeah Yeah, because it's like I had like 10 of my favorite movies have a minute and it's like, oh I don't know if I should like this anymore Advise me hollywood. How should I feel? So anyway, uh I'm good to start on this this video first assuming everything just fucking works. I don't even know at this point Let's just hope it does. Um, someone asked when's eric tax on gonna reply to me and he asked you as though you would know I think you'll keep an eye on it right because you're curious what he actually will Yeah, I look every few days because I'm like, I'm eager to see It because you know, if your discord isn't not discord if your podcast isn't uh soon after he uploads We might even put it on here, right? I don't know Oh, yeah, I wouldn't mind either way Because it'll be amusing more than likely. Um, yeah I just keep thinking of that video he posted like Uh, not very long. It was like maybe a week ago where it's just this guy who looks like Like, uh, fuck. What's your name? Keep forgetting what your name is. Oh, I'm muller. Yeah No It's good to meet you muller I was gonna say the discord you could see right there. Yeah, I just haven't looked at it. It's what's your fuzz smud Smud. Yeah, is all you want to go by by the way unless you have a human name you want to use Smud is totally acceptable. That's fine. Oh regs is gonna come in. Oh, there you go We got him. I got him Okay, Ed so anyway, um, there's this guy Uh called eric taxon Who really doesn't like me and he doesn't like me because I made this video, uh Called the problem with force diversity, which is a very well liked video And a few people a lot of people on tumblr really don't like that video for obvious reasons And he's one of them and this eric taxon guy he like literally looks like the bastard love child of yms And like some hobo under a bridge. I thought you were gonna say like Like bigfoot or something Uh, well, I would say bigfoot, but that's too manly because eric taxon is a transgender guy Only he doesn't know what his pronouns are. He even says it in his twerbio He just doesn't know what the fuck he is and he's wearing like this pink shirt and it's just like a boarded yms clone Looking motherfucker and he said he wants to make a video responding to my video on, uh, Forest diversity and I'm so fucking on it implying that like it's already a thing, you know We should be expecting. Yeah And I just like really eagerly awaiting him to finally fucking make it Oh, someone said he's like yms and sticks and hammer. I agree You come to canada and learn all the proper pronouns that we're forced to use now whenever we People unless they they don't ask to be addressed and it's okay. We just kind of beats the point I said to wolf he needs to start requesting people call him shalima little moonf And shalora, but whatever they get it wrong. He could be like, how fucking dare you He'd be like, yeah, you got him nailed it and arrest them at that point It's part of my slavic heritage. How fucking dare you? Um, but yes, hello rags. How you doing? Doing okay Excellent. We uh, haven't really started yet. So you're actually good. We've just been chatting and uh, so you may as well This is smud boy rags rags smud boy. I don't think you've ever met before. So say hello Hello Hey, good evening. How you doing? Oh, I'm I'm I'm okay But you sound out of your mind. You're right, babe I don't I don't I don't know I'll I'll hang around. I'll hang around, you know Are you tired or I don't know how long if you slept recently or not? No No, no, you have slept or no, you haven't slept I I I've stared at my uh eyelids for a while Okay, um So we can we uh, let me get wait, uh, the inner machinations of my mind are There's the link for the wash together. We're gonna tackle a brilliant video explaining, uh Something to do with the last Jedi for three minutes before jumping into movie bob Um, oh this oh this. Oh, this was a bad one. This was a bad one. I haven't even seen the whole thing I only saw as far as where I was like, yeah, we'll just do that on efeb because Yeah, it all makes sense. So yes, here we go. This is gonna be wonderful. I'm sure Okay, come on get your efebs ready guys. Let's get this let's get this all the way up there All right, so when I really think about it, it's funny how the most hated movie of 2017 is the best-selling movie of 2018 Oh my god, I fucking hate it already. Um, How many how many sales is the room had I I wonder out of curiosity? Uh, I don't know if you'd be able to find that now It would be basically all right. It would be big. I owe undoubtedly I mean people for ever since 2003 have been going to like private like theaters showing The movie like little theaters showing the movie Uh, or even just like fucking college gatherings. They'll show the movie just because it's so fucking funny And they would do an effort then you have to be the room. It could be oh, yeah It's pretty much always on in Toronto tickets man. It's just anything Yeah, someone in the chat pointed out 50 shades of gray is the fastest selling paperback Which oh my god, that's so fucking disappointing. I can't believe Hey, I didn't know that. Oh my god. That's so disappointing It's like, okay already you're fucking you've like said one sentence and you're already fucking wrong It's Star Wars. Of course, it's gonna sell out and look what look what happened because five months later solo comes out And it's the first Star Wars movie that ever bombed and it's right after the worst Star Wars movie ever made Do you think there might be a correlation there? I was gonna say the infamous is a thing right? He says it like you're hated. You shouldn't be successful It's like plenty people successful via being hated Like that's a thing. There's there's the room But yeah, I mean maybe I wouldn't use the word hated Well, because it's like the obvious thing we're trying to get at the room is kind of left is quality That he's like well, it depends Quality and popularity have not much to do with each other necessarily But if you're 12 years old, you think that's the case. So that's what you open your youtube video with I mean, I'll just put it in the perspective the one of the first reviews about the room when it came out in 2003 Described it as a the room is like being stabbed repeatedly in the head That is an actual review of the movie and it is not only A movie that's being shown in theaters like worldwide now because it's so funny But Tommy Wiseau also has other acting jobs He just came out with a two-part movie that's actually unironically good He's like got these parody videos of him being the Joker now, which is kind of creepy because it's actually not bad and Just because it's just because it makes money doesn't mean it's good Look, he hasn't made that argument yet. He said it's interesting that the most hated movie is the best selling Which to me it doesn't know that's the argument he's gonna make because no, of course But I was just gonna say like that doesn't sound like a contradiction to me Anyway, you know being the most hated thing but also one of the best selling things because for example Mr. Plinkett would have bought the film to review it And I don't know if you guys got the impression if you've seen his video that he loved it I don't think he did I think he rather disliked it and he would have been one of those sales. So There you go. That's already I mean I I went into the movie thinking it was gonna be good I came out hating it It's star wars people went in expecting it to be good now people don't expect that anymore And it's because of this fucking movie But you know he's gonna use that argument because that's what every fucking Last Jedi defender does is they pull these really shitty arguments out of nowhere Like oh it made a lot of money. So that must mean it's good Well, let's let's see where he goes with it, you know, he couldn't The rest of this video could be that he's like, you know, it makes sense because some things sell well when they hate that's probably what it is Let's let's let's go It's not gonna be what it is So you all know what i'm talking about star wars the last jedi if you look into your Little twitter bubbles and your little facebook twitter groups of 120 people who All they do is hate star wars. It's the worst movie of all All right, let's go to youtube. Oh god, here we go. Let's type in let's type in the last jedi Let's see what pops up. Oh the last uh, uh, there's plinkets review. That's at 1.7 million Uh, we got that's the mine We got veto, which is at 2.5 million why it's a complete cinematic failure. All right more than mine Uh cinema sends everything wrong with it 3.4 million more than Definitely more than mine. Oh, oh boy. I mean, I don't know man Uh, yeah, there's a lot of facebook What are you gonna say? Well, there's a lot of facebook groups that I used to go on I think in january of this year I think I stopped in february where they weren't hating the the the movie that there are there are the actual groups that he Was referring to that just every day. It's like, oh, this is another thing that ryan johnson said That got kind of monotonous But there were the the fan groups which were you get people of all different ages and different uh backgrounds Talking about oh, you know If only they made justin bieber a jedi in the next movie and all these other bizarre Ideas so they were just as crazy On either end and it didn't matter whether they hated it or liked it There was something that they wanted to celebrate Well, yeah, so one of the first reactions I saw from positive stuff was like, oh my god Look what they've done with force ghosts now we can I it's in my original ramp video because I saw the comment I wish I'd put it on screen. They said now we can finally see force ghosts fight like Yoda versus Palpatine Doesn't that just sound awful Well, it's one of those oh, let's just say that the people who don't like this movie Let's just call them a bunch of It's just trying to label them as you know x group They hate them They're just these these little groups of people and they're out there and nobody there's not really many of them Right. He's trying to frame it that these people. Yeah, they're a very loud minority You know They don't pay attention to them because there's not really that many of them They're just in these tiny little facebook groups of 120 or whatever. Don't listen to them I know that this is not an argument But why is it that every single person that defends the last jedi looks like this? It's just like some scrawny fucking Middle-aged man who has No fucking dick or respect for himself They usually say that like people who hate the last jedi usually neck bearded, you know basement dwellers Like that's that's usually what it is Like like as a comment on it and it's just hey, I know at least one brown person that doesn't like the movie. That's true That's true. We know two don't we? We know yes I always think of fringy is green though. So I don't know he's still a person of color at that point Yeah, he is the only person of color left. Why does all colors combined? I'm a person of colors We need a daniel day lewis rendition of the last green Ash jedi is the worst thing to ever happen to cinema like the room no one has ever said that fuck off I don't I don't I don't think I don't think the worst thing to happen to cinema like come on It was the worst thing to happen to star wars. Yeah, but not cinema. Is that like is someone saying that not already strong It he's been fucking a minute I don't know. All right. I think arguments could be made What for sure, but I'm not sure what I would choose. Yeah, I think you could make the film that did the most damage to cinema Interestingly though that the last jedi has caused such a like Um, we're so not sure what the right word is here But basically an idea where everybody's reevaluating critics on youtube like that happened. Thanks to the last jedi more than any other film Oh, yeah like this The last jedi made efap Take any large franchise and let's say uh, james bond and use uh, social media or politics or anything to change the actual formula what a bond film is And it's going to be a big thrust of people who hate the thing now Simply because it was not what they were wanted to get So it doesn't really matter what the formula would be whether it's a big franchise That's where a lot of eyes are on it and therefore you're going to see a lot of people react to it It's going to be newsworthy So for a gentleman like this if you look at as we were talking before about the things that he likes It's everything that's popular and he's going to have something to say about that So maybe he has some insight into what actually is popular and why who knows he likes to fuck out of the witcher Yes, oh, yeah, I was talking about that before we went live It's like Almost everything in this frame is witcher related and it makes me angry Because it's like you're not allowed to have good things around if you're going to make shitty arguments like this Still yeah, I'm not sure what I would pick for filma. That was the worst thing to happen to cinema. It just seems so like Hyperbolic to me, but again, uh, worst thing to happen to star wars Maybe I could definitely see arguments for that It's like high caliber compared to the last Jedi. Okay, and of course, it's all the fault of the women in the franchise So nobody's gonna fuck off I've never heard this This guy's a polygon writer, I guess or something. He's no one's ever said that it's never been said by anybody In history, I guess maybe he was right. He is referring to a fringe group of like three dudes across the entire internet Who said that uh, it's the worst thing to happen to cinema and it's because of women Is it the the women on the editing staff or was just the women in the movie? I'm guessing it was the women in the movie because I think no women are safe Yeah, actually it's any woman that had any hand in the production I Actually, no, yeah any woman at all just unrelated to stars even those ones just the concept of women Shrodinger's woman By the movie nobody saw the movie apparently even though star wars track record shows you that the middle of every trilogy Is the weakest one? Women in it. That's a very that's a very poor Understanding of storytelling or just to say a trillion a trilogy in general that the second Part of anything is the worst one. I we were just talking about Lord of the Rings and I was saying how much well my knowledge of Lord of the Rings But I was saying how much I like the two towers. It was probably my favorite part of the whole trilogy so to say that uh A movie franchise that happens to be a trilogy and the second one being the weakest I'm kind of curious where he's going with that Did he I mean empire is universally accepted to be the best Did he say it was the weakest the quality or did he already imply that it's the weakest for view count because it did seem to be Maybe that it was aimed at popularity rather than uh quality But even then it sounded like view count I'll just I'll just run it back. I think he was saying that but even then I don't I don't know if that's true Even though star wars track record Yeah, star wars track record. I don't know how that could possibly be true Every trilogy is the weakest one The weakest in general, yeah weakest one is it No, that's what he's saying I guess so attack of the clones and empire struck backs one. Well, like we can compare it We can compare the genres to let's say movies or video games and say we'll look at a popular space opera And I know mass effect and mass effect two is perhaps the most popular Version of all the three. So I don't know what what he's getting at here People are pointing out spider-man 2 in the dark night and that's oh, yeah Wow, okay. Well, again, if he's just saying the amount of views it grabs is typically the second one takes a dip compared to the first Maybe maybe he means popularity sales wise or I don't know is he trying to say that that's an explanation for why it would have done worse than the force awakens because a gas Yes, aliens Back to the future too the godfather the two tower is very ambiguous Yeah, I don't know. We'll see what he's going with this the video pointless Well, no, he's saying arguments add popular there Because it didn't sell the most. Uh, it's the worst And again, we're looking at a guy who has all kinds of popular paraphernalia around him But this is the world he's at if he's saying lost Jedi copy that bad Considering is the best seller when he's just admitted that empire strikes back sold the worst out of the originals Even though it's typically looked at as the best Doesn't it mean that these things don't connect then We'll see while his argument flows. We don't we're not sure where he's getting at empire strikes back I mean first off the phantom men is worse than the tag of the clones already So you're wrong on that front. Are you sure? There's a lot of discussion about that The last Jedi is the worst According to the the worldwide box office for the original trilogy the the first Uh, I've made the least but five and six are really close So But It's one thing to go with that came out In theaters and it carried on Selling insane numbers and at this point we have the september reports and it's the top selling blu-ray And dvd Okay in the comments of his videos imply that He's not really interpreting that all good someone Someone said that uh black panther out sales it in home media Um So I i'm i'm not exactly certain Is he trying to argue that the release date of infinity war anything really sales Jedi I mean infinity war didn't come out a couple weeks after the last Jedi It was like months after was it Yeah Because solo came out not long afterward. Also. I've made a small fix five months away I've made a small fix I'm hoping this is level now for anybody because in chat I was noticing a couple people picked up that not only is the stream A bit laggy but But everything's out of sync in terms of I say a thing and then you guys say a thing way later and and the video Hopefully it's fixed now. So just just update and keep going. Yeah, and infinity work came out april 27th So the end of april so a couple weeks guys ever January, february march april So four months. It's possible, but that's a third of a year later I'm still stuck at how meaningless this all is anyway. Best selling does not mean That it was not bad Well, yeah, the whole the whole premise of the point is that if it's so bad then how come a lot of people spent money on it And and the fact that he's already registered the Empire strikes back assuming he's right sold worse than the first or third in the original trilogy to me I'm just like, okay, then so we agree. This is meaningless Yeah, and if we're talking more sense of this If we're talking numbers when it comes to like blu-ray sales Blu-ray sales of the last jedi are way behind the force awakens As he just said though the second one always takes a dip. So that explains that get fucked rags. Checkmate all right and united states so Does any of that hatred actually correspond to anything that people are saying because let's be realistically talking about this Let's be realistically I know it's like every other word that comes out of his mouth. It's like, oh my god, you're Language, I wouldn't have a problem if it's not for like it's like it's only three minutes, dude You could have like, you know given another shot. Whatever. It's fine I'm really disappointed by the fact that he's playing the witcher three on a fucking playstation It's okay, man. Every every Maybe Besides this this video is basically of course. God's real look at how many people go to church Also, yeah, I just realized he may have the controller that doesn't mean he necessarily plays on the console Wolf is still hope Still some hope Hates this franchise. All right, and I hope then why is it making so much money? Hates the franchise of why is it making money? Why is that hard to believe? Like what's hard to what's hard to register about that beaver one direction? I mean It's like I swear. This is a 12 year old. Oh, yeah Well, if it's so bad then how come it's making lots of money. He definitely talks like a 12 year old Well, yeah, I'm just stuck at the the point where it's just like yeah, as you guys just said transformers. How'd you explain that? If transformers were so bad, why is it selling so well? Explain that Just lame make a better argument Why are people buying this movie if they hated it so much? A lot of people aren't you know? A lot of people aren't you're taking the sales from when the movie Like first came out in theaters, which doesn't fucking count because look out Just because the movie made a ton of money When it came out doesn't mean anything because look I went into the movie thinking the last jet I was gonna be good It wasn't good. So my opinion adjusted accordingly Just because the movie made a lot of money when it came out in theaters a star wars film Like one of the most like arguably the most popular movie ever of all time Yeah, because he's gonna make money because he's saying basically that oh, yeah Well, the last Jedi is in a rune sound blu-ray and he's not saying that the last Jedi blu-ray sales are 56 percent of the force awakens Also, and that's there was a huge drop. When was this video made? Can you look that up? I want to see what was made at september 19th Yeah, eight days ago All right. Okay. Are you fucking kidding? It's public knowledge that solo was the first star wars movie to flop And it's the first star it was the very next movie after the last Jedi And I have said for a while that I would assume the damage from last Jedi would be seen in either solo And episode nine or episode nine that we wouldn't be seen in the last Jedi sales because People bought the last Jedi going into seeing the sequel to force awakens You know, I would say that the blu-ray sales and have a bit to do with it because if people saw it and didn't like it Then why would they buy the blu-ray? Well, see this is a complicated subject You've got a lot of different factors that come in for example the debate we had with that guy for the first time Well, he actually despite us explaining extensively how much we really hated the movie. He he still asked us like Well, you're still getting the blu-ray, right? It was like what he was just like it seemed odd to him that you wouldn't buy a star wars film Like that's something that you that's something everyone does you just do that you just you know And I imagine lots of families were just like, yeah, let's let's let's buy it Why not we'll pick it up and then you've got people like Plinkett Several other reviewers who despise this film who are like, yeah We need to buy it because we want to see the extra features to be able to make a Cogen complete review of all the information we can get There's so many different I have the blu-ray of the room shelf. I'm looking at it right now Which means it's good, right? Yes, it means it's high quality entertainment. Okay. Well, yes And there are some people who didn't watch it in the cinema and they were like, yeah, I'll just get it when it comes out And yeah, I mean, I don't know why we're arguing all this anyway. It's just like This is pretty this is pretty fundamental stuff. I'm pretty sure solos Blu-rays will take a huge hit like they're not going to be popular But that doesn't mean that uh, I wouldn't even say that's evidence of solar being bad because I think solar's better than the last Jedi So yeah, I'm curious I think the best way to find out is what's not maybe sales numbers but the like the percentages of You know sales in relation to blu-ray, you know, like box office to blu-ray as a comparison Not, you know, just raw numbers is what percentage of You know people who saw Solo got the blu-ray compared to what percentage of people saw the last Jedi and then got a blu-ray Oh Yeah, well, I mean there's not much left so Pacing so far ahead of so many other movies that apparently people love I'm just asking a question. They're not begging the question And then I know people are gonna bring up out, but it killed the brand and damaged the franchise Look at what solo did for numbers. I mean look at its merchandise will class bullshes have gone through that extensively It's bad Massive damage to the to the sales of Merch, I guess you'd say overall as for the blu-ray sales Like I said, there's lots of ways to explain that but I suppose this fundamental question is how do you know it's done damage? Then I'd be like, I guess I'd go with the with the merch asking argument But overall I'm already aware because of the amount of The insane portion of comments I've had on my videos of people basically saying star wars is out star wars is done They're never gonna You know give disney disney another dime people will refuse to watch mcu movies because of what they've done to star wars It's like that this didn't happen before as as as extreme. Let's put it that way It's like what would you buy when you when you think of a lot about the lost Jedi? What would you buy a toy of you know who in that movie Makes you want to go man. I want a toy of that person to put on my You know in my collection. I I really want this character. I went I mean granted that character won't be the same character in the next film probably Well, what about the last Jedi makes you go man? I really want a toy of this character Well, Bob Iger just released a I'm sorry Bob Iger released a comment two days ago about the slowdown that they're doing now franchise So whether that means that they're paying attention saying hey, we realized Biggest flop did not make any money and a lot of money. We did not Is not going to be made on dvd. Are they're hoping that Kennedy's believes that they're hoping that they're going to make money on the dvd That's a very hopeful To say well, it's a comparison is like, oh, are they slowing down the MCU too. It's like no MC is like This is the thing it's had a real impact how bad the last Jedi is and that was the other thing Just one last argument on top of all this like for why I know it's affected star wars The last Jedi has got piss poor writing I already know that's gonna have damage, especially Luke what happened to luke you've you've done irreparable damage to star wars as a fucking franchise when you destroyed luke pretty simple Yeah, I saw a uh a video recently From star citizen that game that's coming out at some point in the history of the human race and Mark hammels in it and davo seaworth So that's fun But people in the comments were like mark hammels acting more like luke in this movie than he did in this game Rather than he did in the last jedi. I know it's like oh man literally If there's a movie where he's like a member of government arguing for policy on, you know some some shit in 2023 It's like a futuristic ish movie that we should be like man. He's he's close to luke here then In the last jedi Well, I in star citizen he plays as like an actual like Starfighter pilot. Yeah or captain or whatever he is and it was like oh mark hammels actually being luke but in a video game I can see like directors or something being like should we just should we just fucking make a movie about Like a space wizards Hey mark hammels come play it. We'll just give you a movie that you should have had Oh, that'd be that'd be the best that would be absolutely called planet fights All right, planet fucking moon wars One solo had two months of marketing two It was right there next to dead pool insane You're just making shit up. I don't think so. I have two months of acting Deadpool two didn't come out for another month after solo in infinity war An infinity war in solo didn't come out until five months after the last jedi. You're just Blatantly getting shit wrong. Yeah, cuz solo was made tenth infinity war was april 27th And dead pool too. I mean, I remember I watched that when I was He's like he's like, okay, so I've just made the argument that so jedi last jedi hasn't hasn't had an effect on the marketplace Like people want you to believe then it's like, oh shit. I've got to account for solo It's like, uh, that came out the same time as dead pool two and infinity war And it's it was badly marketed and a bunch of other stuff Like there you go. Deadpool two was may 18th Oh, okay, so Deadpool two was after okay But the thing is like we're it's treated as though star wars has to like come out on its own because other franchises will Stop it from being successful, which is ridiculous Well, he's saying that star wars is at a point where it has to Like we're dead pool the dead pool movie is a threat to a star wars film Yeah, it's it I gave my ticket money to dead pool two and walked into the star wars theater. So yeah It is a threat Well, that's the thing I mean, I don't know about you three, but like I'll be seeing the next star wars film almost as a joke I'll be like this will be fun. Well, yeah, I'm just I'm just curious Yeah, that was how I went into solo. So yeah, I'm not even gonna remotely take episode nine seriously And like at this point I'd just be like is this video trying to argue that the last year I can't be as bad as people are saying because it should have a more detrimental effect on the marketplace and in which case I would just be like You're done because plenty of bad things make money. It's like Stop trying to make up for it by being like solo came out at a difficult time But blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I I agree that these other elements that would have cost solo Uh You know money-making abilities, but like there's no way you can deny that the hatred towards the last Jedi would have had no effect At least one guy didn't go and see solo because of the last Jedi. That was a thing that happened in this world People that wanted a solo prequel from the beginning. I mean, I didn't think I needed it I really love the movie, but I didn't think I needed before Oh christ you did So there's a few reasons to look at why solo didn't do as good as it did, but the last Jedi is a completely Whole different story And then let's not even bring merchandise into this because I've seen a reports. I can't talk about yet And we'll just wait till the end of the year to talk about star wars toy sales Because um, you don't need to wait till the end of the year Bullshiters has already talked about it a hundred times now I was about to say like He's got some real ass evidence and this is the thing Jeff is obsessed with like he knows his shit about toys Like this is it's like his forte So I would be interested to see him and this guy discuss How the we don't even need to talk about toy sales We'll talk about that at the end of the year when I get my speech impediment He just implied that he's got special information that he can't reveal. I was just like wait, what? Yeah, why I'm curious why toy sales would get I mean I Generally, you'd think that once the movie releases that would be You know, then the toys start coming out and such and such, but you know, there's there's a pretty big gap in star wars right now Very simple. I was like, do you want to get your hold on rose tico toys guys? Like no They will I remember when I the other day when I texted you that picture of that really stupid looking dustin toy from stranger things Oh god It's like, oh my god I think people would rather buy that just because it looks so funny that I can't even see people wanting to get phasma toys now because you should be like, oh phasma the lame ass that Felt out a hole. Yeah, remember all the cool shit. She did like um die for anybody who's like the same as boba fett It's like phasma didn't do anything Like I don't even like boba fett stuff Like I don't even like boba fett and I'd rather have a boba fett toy than a phasma toy God, yeah, and I don't even want toys. I would take jango any day over phasma. Well, oh That's not a surprise because I'd play as jango fett and star is battlefront 2 rather than phasma Although I don't own battlefront 2 because I don't if it made you bulletproof you'd pick it. Let's be honest Um, I'd just mod the game If the if the blaster bolts would hit my armor and bounce off and hit my teammates, then yes, I would You get booed for fradley fire like oh Pretty sure Without telling you That's gonna be way higher than you think it is So no, it's not way higher than you think it is. That's okay. So Yeah, I guess he's got special access to information Well, I mean what I think it is is that they're in absolute the shit. They're just in the absolute shitter We gotta we gotta remember this and take it to jeff sometime just to see what he says because uh, I'm interested Jeff's made how many videos on this a bunch. You know, I've seen him I mean, he's made he's had some really super compelling evidence to prove it He goes into the stores and he goes to the star wall sections and they're full because no it gives a shit Yeah, I mean and then this guy is like I don't I'm going to show you the evidence of the end of year Well, it turns out those admiral hold-o and rose tico action figures are selling like hotcakes It's even stuff like millennium falcons aren't selling as much like like it's all going downhill and Well, apparently this guy's got additional information that he can't share yet. So we'll just have to take his word for it You trust this guy, right guys? No, I I couldn't I don't No I'll explain the witcher three and a ps4. I already don't trust him Well, the the the thing I don't trust is how those figurines are standing on top of that computer monitor Yeah, I don't I've been trying to figure that out. That's a bottle five minutes No, it's it was really because the the stands are clearly like circles. They're circular But the top of a computer monitor is very thin I think I see like a little there's a shelf behind behind it. It looks like there's a little shelf right there If you looked at the very left of the monitor It still bothers me though. Very strange very strange Apparently movie bobs released a video. I've heard this from a couple people where he he's uh basically sort of accidentally or purposefully shat on the first two predator films And uh, he's disabled. He's disabled comments as well because of the backlash already. So like, okay The second one, okay. I I didn't like the second one, but the first one I mean, I I'm interested to see what he would say. But like, yeah, the first one good luck trying to criticize that It's gonna be tough. Like it's a The very uh tight film, but you know, is it the same kind of criticism as uh, What's his fucking stupid name the guy? Who hates you a lot? Which one do this? The one who has the super punchable face with that ugly like not good beard who drops this in cane I think you're talking about quentin, aren't you? Yes, that's it. I mean, uh Well, we're gonna get a whole dose of movie bob in a moment. So This movie is the worst thing ever and everybody hates it Nobody's saying everybody hates it Otherwise, there wouldn't be a constant discussion about how bad it is Let's be honest Comes from Feel free to let me know in the comments below but If your argument is is This guy's not gonna be pleased with the comments on this video I haven't checked them. Are they not they're they're about what you'd expect I mean in fairness to have you had he gave himself three minutes and 20 seconds to dismantle the idea that the last Jedi is bad It's like based on toy seals. Yeah What's the like to dislike ratio on it? It's less than it's less than 50. Let me It's at 47% But it's only got like 10,000 views And this is from a channel with 452,000 subs which is odd. Wow really? What's can you find out what his thing is? Is it usually not this sort of thing? Well, it's comic book cast two um It's an online geek culture community Our mission is to deliver content that helps you embrace the film tv comics and gaming that we all love in a unique way And having a few good laughs in between And this channel gets shit for views Sounds like next gen tactics all over again What are the i'm just checking the most popular stuff hulk versus Thanos in avengers infinity war hulk is terrified and afraid That's their most popular video Okay, seems a bit seems like you don't need to see that video after that title That is a very strange title. That's a bad live action suits compared and breakdown Comparing and breakdown is Oh, I guess it's like the actual live action suits compared and breakdown. I guess that's how they wanted me to read it Breakdown dude. Why is that as different colors of the MCU and avengers? You Well, hey, you know what if that's working out for them, but yeah all the top videos of the MCU basically um You guys keep going. I gotta take a piss real quick. Well. Yeah. Well. I'm sure there's not much left of had asians Or a woman leading the army who has purple hair and it's not acceptable But I'll fish man Who's only ever? All right, you saved the best dog of us for the last I guess Yeah, this is this pretty insane isians Or a woman leading the army who has purple hair and it's not acceptable But a fish man Who's only ever yelled it's a trash man. It's beautiful. I was going to say that's that's racist dude Just because he's a fish doesn't mean he's not qualified. Yeah, come on He's shitting over admiral akbar. Do you have a problem with salmon colored skin? I can't believe you I'm upset by this. He's He's basically I you know, it's the whole you know, if it's women or asians, it's bad And admiral akbar is a shit, you know The idea that admiral akbar who's an established character Should have should have been the one to replace one of them. Like I don't know And I think the whole bull gown and purple hair thing. It's like it's a very It's fucking very confusing to see. Yeah, there's a lot of people That's pretty off too. If you're gonna if you're gonna be a leader of Our time scenario you don't wear a dress. Yeah, this isn't Trump's resistance or something that you do from home This is a war In your general, do you have like badges or like a hat or some sort of insignia? It's really distracting And this the thing is like it does it it also that ruins the movies like no It's just something to pick up on isn't it? No, it's just it's very weird and distracting Like imagine she was dressed like a like a keg of aura with the bray and The vest and whatever like she would look like oh, she's part of a resistance team in space Maybe make it a space age style resistance outfit Maybe she's ready to hop into a fighter Maybe she's ready to to lean back or something like a like a diplomat something But to dress like you're about to go to the prom or or go night in the town. It's like At least give me some visual understanding of the setting that you're part of that I can connect a and b as opposed to I'm in charge because this story told me I am I wonder what percentage of the Resistance's budget is for hair dye upkeep So they can't afford why wings since uh Well wolf's gonna be back in a minute, but since you were here I said I wanted to say this when you were here right but in the last podcast we mentioned that um There was there was comments about white supremacy and I was just gonna I'm pasting you the um The snap of the comment I was gonna say if you want to if you want to read that out It was in relation to mine and subsequently wolf's videos on black panther And we I was gonna say you can you can stop and we could respond to bits of it if you want to All right, so what is so this video this comment was posted on what video? Um, this is on the the one cinema sins sins made the last I mean we responded to it two days ago Oh, yeah the the one that's been talking about the one he made unlisted. Yeah All righty, so this is in response to okay, um, so turbo nerdo Said this video moller made is teetering dangerously to white supremacy, which is a capital letters white supremacy Because the main criticism stems to Advanced society and african culture are incompatible. No, oh my god Society and african culture are incompatible Um, well, it's not that they're incompatible There does not seem to be an immense amount of overlap between those two But that doesn't mean that they're necessarily incompatible There's there's loads of people should post pictures on discord of modern african culture that's blended with technology It exists if you remember one of the big things I pointed out was how embarrassing the design team were And they were like, okay, so we're gonna have these slick steel towers and it's like cool cool How do we involve african culture? It's like, well, you know like straw huts Poverty will just shove one into one of the towers. That's that's how that works The movie gives the impression that Poverty is african culture Yeah, that too. There's a lot of stuff they should have just like, you know the big lake that was next to the city They should have like added like one of the Haiti garbage heaps right in the middle of it Because that's african culture, man It's like you could have things like dress and design and style to reflect, you know, some kind of african culture But that doesn't mean that people have to be walking around in the streets. Like this is some kind of a low-class poverty stricken marketplace neighborhood Those aren't the same, but it does look like the designers of the film were like what what when people say, you know, Africa what what what gets people to think about africa? Oh mass poverty So let's chuck that in too. That's very interesting that he thinks that Maybe he got that from the whole maybe maybe he got that From the whole trial by combat Thing which is retarded and it has another african or european or anything Like that's that's that is a thing that you only find in like a tribal society Because of how Is it completely impractical it is And how self-destructive it is to a society. I mean it's in game of thrones. That means it must be advanced, right? Oh, yeah, and that works well for everyone Uh, you play his ridiculous claims up for laughs, but I think it's a dangerous reminder of inherent biases That society is being equivocated with western culture and anything else is considered barbaric Well kind of has but Well, I mean would I I'm not saying that I agree with the statement. However, whatever is the most advanced culture would every other culture not be Maybe not barbaric, but less civilized by comparison. Would that not be the logical conclusion there? yeah, I don't you could make the argument that the inclusion of technology in the society because it's a hidden society in their As inconspicuous as possible that they're just sort of slamming stuff together. So you have like this amalgamation Yeah of rule and urban areas and you just sort of thrust together And then you can look at the tribal aspect of of the african culture the dance the drums the The rhythmic sounds like these can be incorporated It's just that would you think someone as sophisticated and intelligent would not say hey, you know what? Let's uh, let's clean up this place. It's kind of dirty. Yeah, it's like we can We can make black panther suits, you know, we have access to this advanced technology, but we're also Simultaneously not intelligent enough to understand that trial by combat to determine who our dictator is Is self-destructive to the society which yeah, and somehow that hasn't actually had any detrimental effects to them Yeah, since their inception, which is crazy to me Yeah, you're talking about technology versus social So stuff like that you can get away with as well as being a comic book If you have a reddit the black panther comics, it is a very tribal system. So it's like, okay But we're talking about I don't care too much about the comic books really well if the comics assists the The reality of it is like it's irrelevant to the to the film alone if you will but From what I've heard the comics make more sense than the film does Right if you're talking about uh, the levels of other things in science medicine A hierarchy of people who are on the top and there are there is a Some sort of aristocracy and then they would have people beneath that serfdoms if you're doing a monarchy Stuff like that. There's I think there is a scene where there are people in villages or huts outside the uh, the the closed off city So that would have to be Yeah, right. It's it's like a front, but it's still part of it So there has to be some sort of amalgamation that slowly and slowly removes that as you get to the higher level tech And that's fine. It's just that it can't just suddenly be hey, we have chickens and cows running around on our on our tower or Um, you know, we're not we're we're gonna ride on horses even though we have spaceships You know stuff like that. It doesn't make sense Like it feels like somebody decided let's throw tribal and high tech space age stuff together And it's like well, yeah, that's what they did and I'd be like, yeah I'm saying that my immersion is broken because that's what it looks like regardless of how much sense it makes Um, but yeah, just to to counter their point anyway Um, I know about other cultures or at least I'm aware of other cultures outside of western that I don't consider to be um non-advanced I suppose like I'm not stupid asian culture for any country is completely different from western, but it doesn't mean it's it's barbaric compared to I'm just saying western culture got us to the moon eastern gave us anime and Well, one's better and what we can't do Actually, uh, japan just landed us references I think japan just landed a uh a probe on a meteorite or something today. I think there's no they they still had anime So well, that's true. Yeah, anime is more value than that, of course Exactly. Hey, come on. Definitely. That's great Yeah, so Yeah, he's uh, uh, the comment goes on seriously These were the arguments being used when britain were in the height of their colonial power Um, except back then, uh, the argument would have been correct As if as if that's why I'm making this argument. I spend more time with american culture than I do with my own at this point online like I just find this ridiculous. It's like, oh come on. Is it what are you doing? I can't take it seriously, but this person is that convinced that I'm I'm completely brainwashed by my britishness and I also I'm dangerously close to being a white supremacist. Come on. I literally just criticized your stupid little film about a superhero He don't need to extrapolate this So what you're saying is make britain great again? Yes, and we do it by annexing wakanda even though it doesn't exist All right, which some people have trouble with by the way. Some people do think wakanda is real Look, I have some german heritage in me. I think we need to make germany great again It's bringing on guys holocaust 2.0. Let's go I want to I want to take this turbanerdo guy and ask him If western civilization or the continent of africa is more advanced than watching his head explode Because he won't want to admit it Anyway, he says I expect this attitude from heart of darkness Not a youtube video in 2017. Heart of darkness. Are you serious? It's also 2018, but whatever It's a weird mistake And this attitude is ironic considering the film being criticized One which extensively attempts to normalize and represent african culture And by showing the inherent problems in this society despite its african culture highlight that these issues are utterly human What what Follow that one Well, heart of darkness is a very classic story and you read in at least high school level um How that relates to i mean steam engines going down Going down the river and Jesus same trade. Maybe like dude. How this relates to dot dot dot. You could say that for this entire comment Uh, how this relates to This attempts to normalize and represent african culture and by showing the inherent problems in the society In the society despite its african culture highlight that these issues are utterly human Moving on though that if given technology these african tribes can consider us as primitive In the same way that we view current third world nations as primitive Yeah, again, what I guess he's I guess he's saying that if you give Advanced technology to african tribes they would consider us primitive Um No, they use it and they kill themselves. They don't know how it works. Yeah, they they would probably self-destruct Yeah Miss i'll just keep keep going like i'm sorry, but there's a reason why Okay, no, I probably shouldn't say that What were you gonna say african tribes are barbaric? Well, I was going to say there's a reason why african like the the best african countries are like Only just above like third world, but then I was like, that's probably not the best way to word that There are some places in africa that generally don't look Like yeah, I mean there there's parts of like south africa that look modern But then you go out of those little parts and it's like, oh, it's the rest of africa now Look, I don't I don't is it really a secret africa is not doing so hot right now Or that any That opens up arguments about how much of it is is whitey's fault in it Like that's what yeah, because they don't have any Um, yeah, it's all Colonialisms faults and things were just amazing and wonderful and dandy and magical in africa until the white people showed up Is it yeah, they have no agency. They can't take any responsibility for their own failing So they have to blame it on white people. So it's like okay. I mean, this is the thing It's a it's a it's a whole discussion. There's a lot of history to go over but like Um, why are we talking about all this sort of like take a step back and be like I was I was just criticizing the design and the ideas of this culture and how it would have lost it. So I was like, no This is all because you're british These people are desperate to justify trial by combat It's so all as a viable. It is very strange. Like I that's why when we were watching that guy's um, uh, review response movie thing um Video is the word I'm looking for Well, you're watching his video and I was like man, there's I wonder what he's gonna say I'm sure surely. He'll just skip over this part and agree with you right because there's no way you could defend Trial by combat is an effective and justifiable political System under dictatorship is like no he did never mind All right, a funny note by the way in season seven Or six of game of thrones. I think it's six. Uh, they outlaw Um trial by combat because it's too primitive and barbaric And it was a kid that outlawed it too But it was a white kid still alive. It was a white kid. It was a beautiful arian white kid Are you saying that are you saying you're a parent who was smarter than adult black men? I'm just saying there Look, I'm just saying I knew it not not everything about hitler was bad That's true. Well, that's true the autobahn. I heard he's a good painter and he did a he did um scoliosis checks He did like animals. Yeah, and he the city beautification projects I mean Not a bad idea. I wonder if he liked animals as much as kiro the wolf Anyway, if we can just knock out the last bit Yeah, he goes on by saying moller missing this and criticizing the film as such is only Reinforcing the importance of the narrative. He is critiquing Wow, what narrative would that be moller? white supremacy Moeller missing and critiquing this film as such is only reinforcing the importance of the narrative. He is critiquing. I'm confused by that He's he I think he's saying that your argument support your argument Well, no, he's he's sort of painting a picture that there's culture. There's white culture There's a thing is it is really about white supremacy at this point because he went through African culture and then things being primitive and well, he's lumping all of African culture together for starters And I didn't say anything because you know people I don't think he was doing it in a malicious way But there's multiple, you know, African culture is not one thing Reinforcing the importance of the narrative from the film. I'm assuming they're trying to say which is that um In in the film what kind of view themselves as Above other societies because they're more advanced and and that's looked at as an issue in the film Which by the way, like I'm happy to admit that's a thing in the film And I think he's saying I missed that And it's ironic because that's my issue that I view Western culture is above and beyond every other culture on earth because obviously that's this person's take on my video for some Fuckin reason And well and first off, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with saying first world countries are not Culturally better than third world countries Defensive is that because is that racist? Is that incorrect? Well, I mean if we culture we like chop things off and fight each other to the death to in the Well, we're about to get into that with the end of his comment Oh, so let's let's let's tackle that um That culture does not make one better or worse That spiritual beliefs are Are independent of the need to build bridges as a society that no group is superior or inferior to another group A message that has clearly gone our whoosh over mawler's head. Yeah. No, that's just simply not true Some groups are superior or inferior to other groups Some cultures are shit And I would I would not shed a tear if some cultures in the world disappeared Like what if what if there's a culture like hypothetically there's a culture where it's just tradition once every week to to eat a bowl of shit Jews is that is that's just not superior or inferior. That's just their culture. Leave them alone Well, there's a reason why there's a very large Rate of people going and traveling to the united states every year as opposed to any other country in the world So maybe it's because they like the taxes to be a certain rate. I don't know Maybe like arguing about politics every day. I don't know But they like going there more than everyone I think turbo maybe turbo nerdo believes in like cultural relativism Or something along those lines. It's funny because as of recently there's been a a couple of like, you know There's been a lot of because of article 13 and other shit that's going on in britain There's been a lot of arguments. This is like man. We wish we had your first amendment That would be nice And you know the idea that we kind of want a bit of your culture the idea that we consider that better than ours You know and it does that I'm supposed to be a supremacist for my own culture, right according to this person So why would I ever be jealous of a culture or assume that it's better in with a different culture at that point? Wouldn't that be impossible? There's nothing wrong with saying one culture is better or worse than another based on the context of what you're evaluating Yeah, obviously, you can't say every single element is perfect and best But as a whole in general in the majority Yes, you can totally say a first world country over a second or third world Is better western civilization the culture of western civilization in general is way better than like the culture of the middle east Or rather in culture, that's just your opinion Yeah, and live in uh, you know Afghanistan or America? I guess if you ask a feminist they'll be like, oh, they treat people so nice in afghanistan I was gonna say by the way, but uh, but yeah, that's that's to explain why we thought that there was a chance in the video That you was gonna label me a white supremacist because someone in the comments came to that conclusion But apparently that was just completely irrelevant of the guy's video and my video apparently This is the kind of thing where it's just like they clearly had that thought well before they saw either mine or The guy wrote might be a parts video. I guess they just wanted to say that either way I suppose it's time for the main event which I think me and me and rags the only people who know movie bob relatively well, I assume Out of the four of us I didn't know he was part of the escapist I did yeah, he was only recently back with the escapist as far as I know Yeah, escapist said they want to be a political and so they hired Well, all I know about movie bob is that he's pretty much insane He says a lot of things that make absolutely no sense And well patrick williams respects him so he must be good. Yeah, patrick was did say he's a traditional reviewer Movie bob is an unironic supporter of eugenics Yeah He said many times across the internet that uh, we should do anything we can to prevent nazis from getting any kind of win That's like his goal And if that say for example, the nazi said I love my daughter. She's a wonderful person. Bob would be like killer kill the door Do it. You can't let them win Any there are no bad tactics guys Do anything as long as it stops the nazis from winning and then of course it comes down to the very Sad reality that um, what is the criteria for being a nazi these days? It's like well It's loose at this point You could um, you could just you know have a comment you could say like um Brie Larson should smile in the new trailer for captain marvel and you'll be dangerously close to that label already And what's interesting is that his his videos don't get that much views? Especially for the escapist channel. Well, he's been around for a long time I've always I've known the name for a very long time and I always assume that anybody who's been around for long Generates an audience just by virtue of existing like um for brekkine I can't build Movie Bob's quality in his videos has always baffled me that he gets anything beyond like a thousand views So I'll always be like wow people Really do like that, but you know in fairness. Let's give him a shot. This is um in terms of timeline Patrick Williams made his video and uh, it got a huge amount of backlash then Movie Bob decided to double down on it for him and this got a bunch of backlash too, but he speaks fast so we're probably gonna have to do a bit of um You know reversing every once in a while, but is everybody good to go this is gonna be enlightening. Let me um put more water in my bottle Speaks fast trick you into thinking he's smart Just like certain other Jew I know I will read some super chats while while he's getting his drink. Um Mola, did you ever get your d d rank handler license from rags sooner? You'll get it the sooner you can rank up. I um, is that directly he chose d rank in reference to um the male sexual organ guys I'm trying to be very diplomatic here. That is inappropriate. We never swear or have any crude jokes on this stream. So um You're gonna review or talk about the upcoming Ivan or taiga's last Jedi re-edit. I've not seen it, but Smud boy, you right you you referenced that earlier. Did you not? Yes, I was curious when it was coming out. I did not know it was released. I wish we could that'd be great Um Infinity war is the most expensive anime ever made. That's probably true if you Consider it at a bay Black Panther outsold last Jedi and this is the thing I don't even know say for example a great star wars movie came out and infinity war outsold it As far as I'm concerned it's like that might be normal at this point because I think that the mcu somehow is actually The biggest selling franchise now instead of star wars in terms of movies, which is A mantle I suppose they've been trying to earn for the past decades. So they finally have it um See the bastard child of christie winters and kevin logan is that referencing um, whoa Who's the guy again? What's it? You remember his name, right? Wolf the one who's making a video on you eventually eric something eric taxon. Yeah, I think that's well that's referencing Oh, uh, no Well, I don't know who I who yeah, I don't know who christie winters. I think I know kevin logan is I recognize the name I know the name christie winters. I don't know what she looks like but I mean honestly I think eric taxon is more of a You know a botched clone of yms christie winters is a crazy feminist Kevin logan is a crazy feminist Makes sense, too Well those two and why are you why are you talking about them? Oh someone someone asked if those two put together makes uh, eric tax. Do you say it's tax and tax on? Tax on yeah, eric tax on eric may be makes really terrible music But it ain't a um It ain't a compliment to say somebody's a mix of kevin logan and christie winters. No, I that ain't no That ain't no compliment The last cell numbers aren't fully available if I recall correctly at least in terms of home releases Apparently they're good enough right now to to affirm to have made that video Dude sounds autistic to be honest kind of explains why he likes the last Jedi I mean you don't have to be autistic to like it. I would just say that you know, it's interesting to Deny it might help Someone said her name is fisty splinters get it right This one's got always remember and it I'm not even sure here guy shouting at dog and then milk is greater than rhino milk is greater than cow milk Guy shouting at dog milk I need the meme explained Not to mention people collect movies. That's yeah, there's plenty like well We did mention this like there's gonna be people who are buying it just because they're like I want to have all the star wars movies since like did you even like the new ones like no I want them anyway Female lead movies with high ratings kill bill alien aliens moana frozen hunger games run lola run and so on and so forth. Yeah I don't even the whole female thing is frustrating to be honest because it's just uh It feels like a smoke screen These apologists are gonna look even more stupid in a few years as star wars continues to sink it They'll keep making apologist videos anyway I think that at that point the narrative will change to star wars fans of ruined star wars as opposed to The film's being bad The narrative can always shift. Um Is it bad? I enjoyed solo. It's definitely not the best but it was certainly better than the last Jedi in terms of tone Only bad part was sg droid I Yeah, you can enjoy it. It's fine. It's just that I I thought the characters plot and There's a couple of things with with with law if you will just the the millennium file can be in the main one Where a lot of hits to take what would you give it as a number wolf? If you if you were forced by gunpoint to give solo a number A number rating for how good it was. Yeah, like out of 10 uh Four yeah, I'd say I'd probably go with a four four sounds about right Um, don't forget Jumanji knocked off the last Jedi true. Jumanji was a Surprise hit from what I know, right? Like it did really well and people didn't see it coming. It was just like I've heard It was quite good. Yeah, apparently it was it is actually a pretty good movie. I enjoyed it I don't think it's amazing, but I had fun with it. It made me laugh. That's all I need Hard to compare the earnings of old star wars because you have to compensate for inflation How many screens did they play and how long they were in theaters? That's true as well You wants to wait until the end of the year to talk about toys because of Christmas? Oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense Uh, again, I don't think star wars is going to have a great year, but we'll see If you guys haven't finished ripping movie barby released a video today revealing He doesn't understand basic plot points from the first two predator movies If that video is available by the next time we might check it out because I mean is any rags wolf you guys have both seen Predator, right at least Yeah, uh, yeah, I've seen the first predator. Yeah, okay Uh, shout out to Sean ranklin. I don't know who that is public ranklin Sean ranklin high five A public service announcement about to come into direct contact from movie barb. Everyone take your iodine pills limit exposure with frequent pauses and And you can reduce the risk of cancer I mean, I'm sure we'll make it. We make it through Even the craziest of stuff bring Joseph Anderson in here. I would happily have him gasped But I think he would want to not do this because it's too crude He would he would be upset at the idea that we uh, we take reviewers to task probably Uh in black panther. Wakanda didn't have guns in infinity war. Their swords were now guns An odd rat combat makes no sense that they had no guns um They fired one blast from one spear in one scene in in black panther And then in infinity war, they're all firing shit tons from them. So i'm guessing that It's some weird The way they edited it it almost seems as if Half well, like at the very end of the movie or something some guy was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if the spear shot lasers? Like, oh, that is cool. Uh, how much of the movie do we have left? So no much Throw it in. I don't know Just put it edit it on a scene later When the orc society in warhammer 4k makes more sense than the one you wrote you have a problem Agreed, um invite those kind of invite decker shadow for uh predator and stars I I would be on board with that. I'll see if I'll see if he's up for it on twitter I will I will try and get a message out Um kiro the wolf unbridled rage when I Bob eugenics a good ship, but tell movie bob the last Jedi was a win for the nazis. Yeah, that'll get us on get him on our side I suppose Bob get the calipers chipman That uh, that unbridled rage is on medicar's channel um Love love your videos and streams give us good work. Move move what was wrong. There are no bad targets Just bad shooters. I work with a lot of autistics and most don't like the last Jedi Where's the token brown? I'm afraid fringes out today and I I'm not sure about the bends available, but I will be trans brown there you go And who are you to deny me my identity the last one for now? Do you guys like the clone wars tv series? So I've only seen one and a half or a little bit more seasons and so far It's I would say meh, but I'm apparently supposed to be coming to better stuff soon I know wolf season three wolf is like Who like entirely with with global's I'm not sure we uh rags and spuds stand on this one though I haven't seen it clips. I yeah, I haven't seen an actual episode but when I was doing research for even now for kotor like the power levels of The uh, like Yoda and other compared to other parts of the franchise like they're this is the highest as they are Like they can do some really crazy crap so um I don't know if that's a good thing because you can't just have Jedi just moving planets around but uh for the story like that a Jedi is powerful and and Uh, it takes a lot to get rid of them It kind of defeats the idea of what happened in the prequels where they just knock out Jedi like no big deal It kind of subverts that also in the original kotor and kotor 2 where you can get uh Guys who are just really sneaky to kill a jedi so It's sort of humanized them a bit But in the animation that sort of makes them even bigger. So I think people like that They like the the super powerful Jedi characters and that's fine. Mm-hmm And right unless they're talking about the um the cartoon Uh, the one that had the little shorts in them I don't know. I don't know that one No, all right. Well, yeah, there's generally reference the 3d one. Yeah, there's the 2d and the 3d ones No, the 2d ones were really good Yeah, it's really good Um, and yeah, and ryan johnson apparently name dropped you on twitter more part of a scummy joke. I think uh, also mommy joke Maybe he's watched videos in last jedi from what I can tell it has nothing to do with me It's just a coincidence. He's like referencing something that uses the word mauler in it and uh, if you judge from the the responses, there's nobody there saying like Oh, taking a shot a youtuber came after you or anything like that like like that are upvoted There's a lot of people just referencing some kind of story or something. So yeah, I don't think it has anything to do with me But uh, thank you very much for all the donations Are you guys ready for movie bob? Sure, I don't know if i'm ready. I don't know if all of you have no choice Today's episode is inspired in part by a recently viral youtube video called shut up about potholes from Patrick H. Willems Christ, that is fucking that is. Yeah, this is why we're gonna have to do a lot of rewinding He speaks really fast and I don't know why Is that his normal voice? I thought Ben Shapiro talks fast. I mean, holy shit I mean, is this guy like trying to sell me something? Well, this is the thing. I don't know. I don't know what what is the point exactly But yeah, we're gonna have to this is gonna be tough, but here we go I already feel like rewired a little bit. Can you like can you like slow it down by like? I don't think I can Oh I hate that face viral youtube video called shut up about potholes from Patrick H. Willems So if you'd like a more detailed, why are we talking about this context you may want to Then what's the e-fap episode about shut up about potholes? Yeah, we've responded to this channel Yeah, because when you when you type in shut up about potholes, that ours is the second thing that pops up after the first shitty video Is it definitively that or is it just because of your Remember search results do sort of go towards your biases. I know the only one that matters If you try it in like incognito mode, see if it pops up, that'll be interesting But um, do you think he talks fast to like It make people not even realize he says something stupid Um, yeah, even in incognito mode, uh, we are the number two results if you type in shut up about potholes Sweet, we are number three Also every other every other video is apparently shitting on shut up about potholes There's yeah, there's very few people who fucking support it aside from bomb chip but apparently Also if 190,000 views is viral then every video we make is viral Anyway, so if you'd like a more detailed, why are we talking about this context you may want to check it out there And while you're doing that, maybe check out and make sure you're subscribed to the escapist youtube channel And perhaps you'd also enjoy following my youtube channel Anyway, in this video williams essentially communicates three main points in descending order that the overwhelming majority of film criticism And or analysis video essays currently popular on the web seem to be mostly people attempting to find funny and or angry new Ways to read off lists of quote-unquote plot holes from individual movies that the already nebulous definition How is it nebulous? Nebulous definition That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Well people first off don't even know what a plot is Let alone what a hole to apply that as a negative thing. It's pretty straightforward though, right plot line hole in the line Plot hole Sure, it depends on what you describe a plot though And then what a plot line is or what a storyline is I would say most people know what it is But if you ask them to define it, they might have a hard time doing it Well, that's what's nebulous right because there's so many definitions and there's the same way with any literary Term theme and pacing that we have a good idea And that when you say there's a hole We're saying yeah, there's a gap in something whether it's the theme or the character or the The motivation or what yeah, it's it's we know what's something's bad We just can't quite describe it in in the way that's classically used. So I don't really get very uh Liturgical on these sort of ideas because you feel something's wrong. You can't quite articulate it But you know, there's something off. That's all it's up really matters I mean like uh, for example with my videos if I notice that um, you know Uh, Jake Skywalker is doing something and we're being told it's it's luke instead of saying it's a plot hole I usually say it's a character inconsistency I'll I'll stick with axis much clearer because what you'll find I least find with the people who are defending the last Jedi and several of films They usually open with people don't even know what a plot hole is And so it's always just like Does that does that completely undo their complaint the fact that they labeled it wrong? This is a shitty thing. It's just not the shitty thing you thought it was I mean not even everything that I mean me and moller in our videos of the last Jedi not everything we talked about was necessarily a Plot hole so much as it was something stupid or inconsistent. Exactly. Yeah But that's what he boils it down to is a plot hole because bob is not a smart person On a pair of observations I find it very difficult to disagree with and that both of those adjacent backs have had an overall negative effect on How we as a culture watch films and absorb and retain audio visual entertainment. I don't agree. Um I feel like the vast majority of audiences are enjoying films just as they always have We as a culture do this we as a culture don't do that Big broad journal journalizations are just uh, Not a good argument to make I mean if anything if anything me being more analytical about movies made me appreciate The good movies is a lot more. I was about to say that it'd probably be better if people did care more because that's not a Concept would have to write better stories This is this is the big problem that I've noticed with moviebob specifically is that um, he will pretend Like he's listening to the opposition and arguing against them But you know, obviously the easy way I could say this is straw man But I genuinely don't even think That uh, he has any semblance of thinking it's a straw man Like he actually is convinced that everybody thinks Uh, everyone on the opposite side is the way that he's portraying him in his videos And it's like you just don't listen to these people at all. You have no idea what they're actually saying You're just like yep. Everybody now watches films just to point out plot holes And this is because of I mean I'm not saying he said this But like a lot of people like this is because of cinema sins This is because of whoever else and I'm just like I still have yet to find someone who says that cinema sins Is a great standard for film criticism like have you found anyone say that? Never heard it Yeah, it's funny I've never heard people say that they watch cinema sins to know whether or not a film is good The fact that cinema sins rips into every film in existence To me sort of like isn't that evidence that they it's not like they're actually they're not like they have actually have a standard They're just sort of ripping everything down. Well, they're consistently ridiculous. Yeah, and again I'm don't don't confuse this with me saying that cinema sins is good content. I'm not I'm just saying that uh I find it interesting how much people blame cinema sins for um Everyone hating movies So, yeah As a long-term experience by training a generation of audiences that the smart way to view narrative film is through a pedantic overly reductive lens That grants outsize value to mechanical precision and flowchart box checking See, but I can do the exact same argument to him in reverse You know, he says we're say for example, if he's just if he's referring to us that we're overly reductive as in We take What is a cool idea about something we reduce it down to this person walked here at this time and that doesn't make sense Therefore the idea is broken. I could I could make the reverse argument to say he's um, he's overly. What is the opposite? What is the anti-given or he's got very low standards or he um What's the answer to anything? Is there an answer? Let me check because I have the sort of too reductive. Uh, well It depends what you're talking about story analysis. You could have enhancing or enlarging Yeah, go with that movie bob enlarging Well, what I'm saying is they take something that's I would actually argue sometimes is benign and then they make it amazing And they just talk about how it's amazing Like, you know, like just right takes the hold-off thing and then turns it into this incredible Active storytelling when it doesn't even make sense at the core. So what they accuse us of doing I'll accuse them of doing in reverse Is what I'm getting at Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty pretty much. Yeah, and I feel I don't I thought someone anyone else was trying to say something If I've stepped on it all well in regards to the structural approach to critiquing something It doesn't have to be overly structural. You could you can minimize every single aspect that a story needs to have And it depends on how fine-tuned you want to take it if you're doing a drama then obviously you're going to focus on emotion If you're doing a space opera then you have to focus on sensationalism and melodrama And the elements that make that franchise or that that subgenre work So, yeah, if you don't have a lightsaber battles In a star wars movie That's probably not going to be one of those boxes. You have to check It's the same with the other franchises like bond is bond have a gadget that does cool things Does bond can do a car chase? Yes or no? So that doesn't mean you you can't do that or cannot not do that But it's something you expect because you've seen it before and you know how this is going to play out So unless they give you something equally good like bond is in a high car a high speed plane chase Then you're gonna be missing out on what you expect. Hey, man. We got uh, we got our space war We got a battle on half We got a lightsaber clashed in that flashback with luke and kylo That's enough. There you go. All those boxes were checked. But yeah, um I don't Me and wolf has have this criticism a lot that we reduce what value you can get from films while our counter argument is that We may reduce what value you may get from certain films But the whole goal is to appreciate the ones that did the good job As in we get a few people go in. Oh, hey, I didn't actually realize That that was you know the case for this film sort of thing We'll be like yay victory and the whole point is that we're not supposed to be running a narrative here We're actually just trying to find what's going on in the writing for each project. Obviously. We'll have our biases um like Let's just say the new Buffy for me and the new uh lord the rings for Wolf, we're probably both going in pretty pretty much on the side of this is going to be shit compared to what we had before But we'll still try sure and we'll explain it in terms Time we'll be like This is the formula. These are the pieces of evidence and then someone can watch it and be like, okay You were wrong. You got this wrong and then we'd be like, oh, shit, you know, or We got it right and it even with our biases. We still managed to pull through But sure reductive fine importance of theme characterization emotional connection, etc Okay, we're gonna have to rewind because fucking hell overly reductive lens that grants outsize value to mechanical precision and flowchart box checking while diminishing if not outright dismissing the importance of theme characterization emotional connection, etc So themes Yeah, but this is the thing though. I don't actually it's a meme, but like I don't think meme memes I don't think themes are worthless My point in the video was that the themes are broken in the last Jedi I understood what they were going for but they the execution was horrific And the existence of themes alone with whether or not they were executed Well is not enough to just say the the movie's now good. It has theme Well, you're talking about another very nebulous term theme could be many things to many people Characterization again, not so much nebulous, but there's all these different ways You can characterize something with setting with dialogue with the way they dress the way they walk the way they talk Uh, yeah, these are all important And if you know how to hit those notes Then you can do you can tell a story with no dialogue and just have complete characterization in 10 seconds But obviously in context they're talking about the theme that failure is the greatest teacher and that all of us can Take that away from the movie and realize that when we when we fall It is an opportunity for us to you know rise in future, which again concept wise. That's fine with me Um Execution wise is completely there's conflicting elements in the last Jedi That confuse the hell out of me in terms of how that works. For example pose whole storyline He does the right thing at every turn and he's completely chastised for it and apparently that was his learning curve through failure It makes no sense at all Yeah, i'm not against themes either i'd reference it almost every time we stream now But the gray has a ton of themes that are pretty subtle that make the movie Way better than what it is if you take them out And the movie does it really well Unlike the last jedi where it gives you all these themes and then Gives you just such a horribly contradictory broken movie that doesn't make any level of logical sense So that the themes just don't work. Yeah themes very inconsistent And it's interesting where you said like uh, we potentially outright dismiss the emotional value and it's just like I can't tell you what you felt And I completely accept that you would have felt potentially anything from zero to a hundred in any emotion same for me It's just that's that's a different discussion. I completely accept that that's 100 valid If you want me to talk about what it made me feel I I'll happily do it But again to me. I'm just like that's a different conversation. I don't ever say that Feelings aren't relevant whatsoever. I guess Yeah, but what what we can that's the thing when you talk about emotions versus things like plot and structure and characters and things It's it's really hard to argue with somebody about emotions But what you can do is you can say all right a happens b happens c happens And we've established that there are these rules and there are things within the film that go against these established rules and we can point them out And in most circumstances you can agree with people on what those things are And you can form arguments and you can discuss and analyze those things If you this is of course have anything to do with the feeling that you have about it Provide well actually I think you could analyze the feelings or the pathos of the story just as well as you can Any other I would say I would No, I I don't know I I think that when you look at a more objective criteria You know like a plot hole compared to How you felt about you know the emotional rise you get out of a scene Then that's far more I think worthy of a discussion Well to give an example Maybe if this if this helps clear it up like kanto bite if if someone describes it as boring Like definitively they say like this is a boring sequence My brain immediately says like well, I found it boring but boring is like to be bored Is something that people feel therefore you can't know like there's plenty of people out there who have been excited There's plenty of people out there who have been scared by kanto bite who knows it's really difficult You can you can then use objective uh like Uh measurements to try and explain why you felt boredom as opposed to why everyone will feel boredom is is kind of The line I suppose we're trying to draw here Yeah, we're we're not looking at the reaction that you personally get like you could like something I could say Yeah, this is a very dramatic scene for you or I could say it's a very dramatic scene for me If you're like, yeah, it was it was kind of dramatic That's not that's not the pathos I'm looking at I'm looking at the elements Within the scene that we can all just step back and remove ourselves from and say, okay We know why this character is acting the way they do We know the reason why they are feeling or they are trying to do something That is where we can derive our own reaction from but we're not measuring our reaction We're we're looking at the characters doing their thing. So like, you know the reveal for you know, uh Vader being Luke's father you'd be like that's easily a scene of shock and uh You can you can describe that through what happens? Maybe the music cues the acting You can use the extra media on top of that Yeah, but you like that whole that whole scene by itself to know that someone is your dad Like that just the idea of that and then see how it looks in Luke's face Yeah, your reaction to that will be holy crap But you can understand what's going through his mind right there just by looking at it You don't have to contemplate exactly what's going through his mind. You have to invent it You can see it and it's very clear. Oh, yeah, so those Those elements are are are completely objective We don't have to say well, I was feeling way more sad than you were That's why I think it's the best scene ever. No, no, no, that's not what we're getting at We're getting at the mechanical components of the composition of a scene Which have the ethos logos and pathos within them and how they they work to you believing in that scene And what the scene is actually showing you not your your your your emotional reaction to oh This is extremely scientifically accurate or this is Way more dramatic than before or whatever. No, no, no, it's just the actual elements. We're looking at I agree Because I think what he's what he's doing here is trying to imply that you cannot argue those things mechanically And uh, yeah, that's very strange to me to prove you here Observation I also find it very difficult to disagree with because I can't find any reason to yeah Another recent essay released a week prior by Lindsay LSA negative but thoughtful review of the live action remake of beauty and the beast Do you hear that negative but thoughtful? I'm I'm sure that me and wolf could never fall into that category No negativity these are gentlemen negative but thoughtful also question Does anybody get a critique is by default not thoughtful Have you noticed he's been putting up the title and then the youtube link as if anyone's going to type out that youtube link As opposed to just the title like Maybe it's got a hyperlink or something in the description. That would make sense. Well, you can't have annotations now I don't think there's any way to actually do that other than The little things that pop them in the top right, but then you can have can you have like that many in that amount of time? I don't know And can you imagine like how shitty it must feel to get a shout out from movibob? Hey, man, patrick willams Must have felt great because he shouted right back out. I guess Express some of the same sentiment in its traditional context that popular culture's Pophole fixation has reached the point of making films themselves worse by encouraging filmmakers to craft narratives more concerned with Responding to or heading off criticism by mechanics. That's not true The idea that we've gotten so obsessed with Mechanical consistency that films are now bad because they're trying to be mechanically consistent. That's not the reality. We're in Yeah, I don't know where he's pulling that from I'm I'm interested to I don't know. It's like he's reducing Every piece of criticism and he's just putting it into this one box and we've We it's hard enough to understand what this fucker's saying because he's saying it so fast We did it. I seriously have to go back this this year has been Pretty bad for logically consistent storytelling. Like this year has been awful Um, so the idea that it's creeping up now and costing movies their quality is ridiculous And yeah, that's the false dichotomy that um, just right brought to us Which was if you you know, you should be focusing on the emotional resonance rather than logical consistency Ignoring the fact that many people get emotional resonance from logical consistency But yes, the same sentiment to Mr. Yeah, we'll we'll see digital context that popular culture's current plot hole fixation has reached the point of making films themselves worse By encouraging filmmakers to craft narratives more concerned with responding to or heading off criticism by mechanics obsessed trope fixated youtube critics rather than See, I don't I uh, I don't buy the idea that if Audiences want coherent plots and storylines and you know, the logical progression of things in a film I I don't think that that makes films worse If anything it exposes bad writing I I don't I don't buy that I I don't buy that If audiences have have higher standards for films and films get worse Yeah, I know it's it's Again, not understanding what plot is I don't again I wish I knew he defined his terms of what a plot is and what a A plot hole is then we can say okay now Now we know what the audience is learning about because there's all these crazy critics that are looking at plot holes and making it a big deal That uh, suddenly the the script writer is now going to say oh, I better start Making my my science fiction story be logically consistent and have all this lore that matches up in the next story Uh, that's a good thing Always going to be a good thing and to neglect that is to neglect an entire component of the human experience Especially in oral or written tradition. You don't want to start telling a a mystery story or Even a child story a horror story to scare them to going to sleep. You don't want to start uh Screwing up how the the the magic monster doesn't work anymore. I was like, wait a second Do you at night at six o'clock you said five o'clock like you want to know what the hell you're talking about You have to keep these Memories alive. You can't just start making crap up And when we go case by case for these things because they always just blanket it They're like, oh my god You're obsessed with all this logical stuff when let's be honest if you fixed it all it would just be Like the film would be ruined and I'm always just like case by case you make all these small tweaks Like when someone literally just makes the mistake of reading something out wrong in the film or they say 13 when later they say 21 as a Recognition of how many things there are in a in a thing that matters You should be like literally just tweak that back to the correct number Or don't have that reference there or do this there like tiny things and then people are just like no I've ruined the whole film And how strange is it that for two things one it's almost as if he's saying he talks so fucking I didn't quite catch it, but I'll remind in a second But I think he refers to youtube critics as like a Like a derogatory term Because ironic considering movie bob is a youtube critic But he focuses on the right stuff while we focus on the wrong stuff. Oh, okay And it's strange that movie critics seem to be the ones who are excusing bad shit in movies the most When you would expect them to be the ones calling it out the most It's It's like they want these movies to be good is the vibe that I get is like they really want these movies to be good Which is why we get shit like rhino milk Yes Um film makers to craft narratives more concerned with responding to or heading off criticism by mechanics obsessed trope fixated youtube critics Rather than delivering a satisfying and lasting experience Oh man, that's so annoying to hear Rather than delivering a lasting and satisfying experience as if the you know, do I need to say false dichotomy? It's just like that's it. There you go I yeah, I'm curious how the last Jedi is gonna last, you know in terms of It's um, it's timeless appeal. I just I don't see it. I don't see the timeless appeal in the last Jedi It might it might be talked about forever If that way it's timeless, but not for you know, I'm seamlessly timeless We should just throw away all the Sherlock Holmes stories Yeah novels just all the logic just no one's going to read these ever again. It's This is what I mean. It's just like way to just completely Misrepresent the other side As as if because movie balls got videos I've heard I haven't seen them apparently in relation to Bama vs Superman He's got videos where he breaks them down logically And it's just like the just just right had the same problem Where you just show them their own work show them that it bothered them and then they're like Yeah, but that's different because reasons Yeah, because this didn't have Star Wars on the cover Yeah But yeah, sure I was just gonna say there's just like that conclusion that um It doesn't last with you as much if you make it logically consistent, which Fixated YouTube critics rather than delivering a satisfying and lasting experience now for me apart from again largely agreeing with all of that The core of the issue does seem to start with the weakening the definition of what you see. It's it's the center of the earth That's the core I got it. I got it This editing style is giving me an aneurysm. I don't like it either. I hate it It's like image image image image in granted people might look at this and say this isn't We're not criticizing the substance of his his what you could stretch and say arguments, but It's just it's annoying to look at it's very It's like if I had been doing editing as long as he has been doing editing I would be like upset with this I mean, I it's genuinely hard to listen to and to look at I mean so visually unappealing and on top of that The fact that he's speaking at like A thousand words a second. I mean, it's it's ridiculous People tell me I gotta take a breath when I'm In in my own videos and I'm like, oh my god. I can't even follow this guy I'm not kind of his style to edit, but his style is nowhere near as bad as his arguments for me Like I get way more distracted by listening to movie Bob your score. Like, oh my god. What now? I genuinely have a headache after watching only about a minute of this So what's interesting is we watched a video. I forget who it was by But they were talking about things and then on the screen there were there was text of different things God hello grito Yeah, I'm pretty sure it actually was Yeah, because that was the one where he was like complaining about people Hating star wars and then he was like, oh You guys it doesn't matter if raise a marry sue or not And it was it's like one of those tests that they give people where they have a word written out in a color But they say say the color Of the word not what the word says and the words spell colors things like that It was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to vote What am I supposed to listen to you or read to the different texts that you want? You want me to absorb two things at the same time that are different um As I say a movie Bob man is like I I just spent a bunch of money on new art assets and stuff and I got Vegas and I'm learning how to do zooms and scrolls and Panning and how timing works and all that stuff I'm like improving slowly, but surely my you know the style and everything But this is just like you know transfer an image transfer an image transfer an image and as fast as he talks It must be stop judging him panically judge him emotionally from how you feel about I'm judging him based off of the other piece of Shit things he does it's just that the the editing is oh geez it's it's hard to It's almost like if I close my eyes, it's better But then I have to see the buttons so largely agreeing with all of that the core of the issue does seem to start with The weakening the definition of what a plot hole even is having devolved from this thing that happened Does not make any sense to this thing that happened does not make any sense to me See oh my god, what? Yeah, he's just labeled if you call something a plot hole then it's just because it doesn't make sense to you Well, it's what Patrick Williams said it's kind of like He was like it's like the chrysnell and fanboy. You just didn't understand Well, remember Patrick was like just because you didn't see bruce wane with no money or resources or contacts get to Um, what was essentially a completely guarded Gotham? That's not a plot hole montage answers that No, it doesn't see there was not a bond No, I Is this what I mean? So he's like that's not a plot hole That is an example of you thinking you know what a plot hole means, but you don't Yeah, and if anything else all that does is it just kicks the can down the road to it being in a different category of problem It's like it's not a plot hole. It's just a different problem Oh, it's frustrating because he's not helping the conversation. Is he what he just did there was essentially just throw an insult Well, he told you what you think Yeah, people don't know the definition therefore Well, even if they don't know the definition, they know something is wrong with what they saw and they can't articulate it well enough And he's being actually mechanical and kind of semantic on this point Which is odd because again, he doesn't believe in those things But that's fine. Fine. Teach us how we should use the term or use a different term. Great We're still going to complain. We're still going to have problems now. We can have a better vocabulary Do you remember when Patrick Williams was like people don't know what the definition of plot hole is and then like immediately after he says This is what it means as far as I know or something like that He like says this is what it means to be or something. It was just like wait But even that's good because you always define you define your terms My problem is that he's saying it's like other people's definitions are wrong My source for my definition is me. It's like what and then and then he says that you could find plot holes in anything I don't know. I think what it is I can appreciate Patrick William at least saying that this is what I think a plot hole is so that at least we can like peer To his grazed mind Yeah, I mean Bob has failed to do that yet, but maybe maybe he does who knows Maybe part of the reason plot hole or movie mistake hunting became popular in the video essay world is because it feels like an easy shortcut To doing deep and or serious analysis because it lets you do a comprehensive breakdown of a film Okay, bob. Tell me what deep analysis is I want to know what this movie mistake hunting is if it's the same thing if he's saying one or the other It's like, okay. We can do one of the other just fine. Great. Let's do both Movie mistake hunting is like a super reductive version of criticism not to mention He must that's not like he's saying that in quotations right because if he's actually saying This is hunting mistakes. It would be like so they're mistakes Yeah, like he must be saying that in quotations because he doesn't consider them actual mistakes I guess not Yeah, we may as well give that another listen because you know Part of the reason plot hole or movie mistake hunting became popular in the video essay world Is because it feels like an easy shortcut to doing deep and or serious analysis Yeah, my my only question is tell me what deep analysis is then. Yeah What exactly do you want us to do? He hasn't told us what plot hole is yet either, but we'll just keep adding these to the ticket All right. He's he's are you gonna be the one to decide what's Legitimate criticism and what is it legitimate criticism bob? Are you I know that bob is the he's the perfect Person he's the perfect authoritarian Who would say I'm gonna be the one who decides what is and isn't criticism and what is and isn't upon Not to pick at it, but this guy. He's got the date wrong as well. Veges infinity wall 2017 Oh Damn bob Gotta get that research done. That's a plot hole if if you spent less time looking for transparent jpegs So it actually said the literally that I feel bad now. Um Anyway, it's because it lets you do a comprehensive breakdown of a film without the hard parts of having to establish a thesis or arrive at a unifying ultimate point A thesis or a unifying alternate point Why do we need a thesis to make observations? Yeah, I'm not sure Again, I'd love him to develop that because What is what is he looking for for us to establish at the beginning in terms of a thesis when judging a movie that we are here today To define whether or not this was constructed Well by the standard of and then provide references is that The kind of he's looking for is he looking for something much more simple Now I haven't taken a writing class in a long time because you know, I got a job But isn't a thesis at the beginning that basically makes your position clear from the start So if you're making a movie criticism Like it almost feels like You shouldn't have one That you should end with something like that. You shouldn't I don't know that uh, he's he's treating the video like it's an essay Like like when I do my plot analyses, I'm not doing an essay format. I'm just saying this is what happens This is what happens and this is what happens During that time things could could have been told well or told poorly or told absolutely horribly wrong That's it. It's just like it's like driving your car There were potholes on the road and I hit 10 of them and it was really bad and that's it Just just correct me if i'm wrong because again, I always look for definitions of words just to clarify But the second definition of thesis according to google is a long essay or dissertation Involving personal research written by a candidate for a university degree Sure, so Could we extrapolate that literally just writing an essay about a movie is automatically a thesis? A statement doing the essay style Well, the first is the first definition is a statement or theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved So if my premise was the last Jedi is bad and then I move on to explain plot holes and other things And that's your thesis would be that the last Jedi's you think correct me if I'm wrong But most videos deconstructing the last Jedi open with that statement Most of them say This film is bad. Let me so he's wrong on the thesis part. What was the I just want to hear what the other thing Also, because it lets you do a comprehensive breakdown of a film without the hard parts of having to establish a thesis Or arrive at a unifying ultimate point Movie bob does the real work You don't need to do any of that All you're doing is watching the movie or playing the game or listening to the music and going Hey, something's feel. I don't even know what is wrong. Something feels wrong. Something doesn't sound right I don't know what the feeling is i'm getting but there's some inconsistency with what I just experienced That's all you have to do I think what these people want to do is they want to try and elevate what they do to this really really high Kind of pedestal Maybe that's because you you get I get that impression from these people that what they do is some some kind of a some some holy thing some extremely High refined art form and i'm not saying it can't be it's just that they They have to Elevate everything they do to this level even when it makes it seem I don't know pretentious and unnecessary Speaking of pretentious and unnecessary can anyone tell me what a unifying alternate point is? Um, uh, I can google it Well, okay, we do we do critical analysis The whole point for me at least is to find meaning In whatever we're we're looking at so we've tried to find the meaning of a scene Which might be broken or it might be hidden And that's the that's the process we have to develop we have to go through we have to read it We have to watch it. We have to think about it. We have to come back to it So if there isn't any meaning we say hey, you know Here this is a this is a flaccid piece of nothing That's it. That's the point. That's what we've discovered if we find that there's layers and layers of something That works on a dramatic level that works on a A scientific level logically whatever then we like wow look at all this stuff and we if we just pay attention and listen Maybe to foreshadowing previously or to the big reveal. We could have seen it coming. We could have experienced it more We've kind of appreciated the writer's work more If there of course, there's something there to to deduce But if not He said he said alternate unifying point unifying alternate point was the order unifying Could I suggest is he trying to say that you go with the theses or premise that Last year was bad and then you go through all the elements and you basically start stacking up all the good things like as you progress Almost like that's your narrative and then the unifying alternate point would be that the last year. It's actually great Would that be what he means by that? I wish I could say I don't know I don't know what I don't know what he means by alternate unifying Unifying it sounds like he wants to teach a course in uh in short story writing or something And and it's one of those really weird electives you take at university that no one really wants to go to and you're like Oh, this guy He's got some some deep meaning behind uh, he's definitely saying words. I'll give him that he's saying words Yeah, gourds aren't being spoken. Um, many of them very quickly uh But I I don't know what he means That's a breakdown of a film without the hard parts of having to establish a thesis or arrive at a unifying ultimate point Because no this thing you thought was good actually has several imperfections and therefore you are wrong and it's not good Does not count as a point Why not why But pointing out errors to something that contradict your thesis. I don't see why that wouldn't Are we actually going to be arguing over what the definition of a point is now? Like really If someone says the last Jedi is good in terms of filmmaking and consistent writing And then I present them all these pieces of evidence and I say you are wrong I would have made my point It's generic to say what good means if you can define Scene or a good composition or a good like the purpose of the story is x and therefore it did x Then you could say great. Okay. It accomplished its goal. It did it in a horribly broken way It still accomplished its goal then sure. It's great. It's a great film It did exactly what it set out to do its premise was maintained and achieved it great But is that what we're going for? I don't think so. I think we're going for the entire package looking at the entire experience And we're seeing any drama. We're seeing any logical. We're seeing any any, uh Enthusiastic aspect that we wanted to see like oh, we waiting to see this fight scene it came and we got it And we're so satisfied. Is that the subjective thing we're looking for? I don't know. What's he talking about here and to clarify He just said that so you have person a saying the film's great person b saying His evidence you're wrong and he and he's saying that's not a point And if you think it is you're wrong and it's like well movie bob. Did did you just not make a point? Like how far does this go? We just say nothing is a point now The more he talks the more I get the impression that it's just he's trying to set it up as well when I make the point Then it's this this grandiose underlying thematic substantive Gobbly guk whatever you want to call it and it's deeper and it transcends all of the points that you make Maybe maybe I mean that's kind of strange because you want to supersede Other meaning you've discovered unless it's part of it's like it's a secondary aspect of the main component Also, so I'm kind of a great video Sorry, I'll leave you to just sign of a great video that we spend this long figuring out what he's trying to say first Exactly. I don't yeah a lot of this is interpretation Like maybe we're completely wrong because we have no idea what he's saying Because like I still like what is alternative unifying point I mean, I am genuinely serious when I say that I have a headache and I It's hard for me to even pay attention to this video at this point Just close your eyes That's what that's what I've been doing. I've just had like my head in my hand Go get a painkiller Do you want to do want to just run through it so we don't you don't have to spend so much time analyzing this thing There's so much that we don't know of you. That's what we do Think we do this fucking podcast is called every frame a pot Because this is what we deal with Also, I did I did interrupt you by the way if you wanted to make a point about uh before I said that this video makes no sense, by the way Let's just keep going. We're good. Yeah, okay. Well imperfections and therefore you are wrong and it's not good does not count as a point But even easier than that is being able to pad out your list of problems with things that only feel mistaken Logically inconsistent confusing or dumb to you rather than take the due diligence and frankly healthy degree of introspection to check and see whether you're This is so fucking pretentious. I agree with him though But he's he's saying this is a counter to last Jedi haters, you know Like like you know the idea that um someone says uh The last Jedi sucks because I hated what they did with han solo in it You'd be like he wasn't in the film and then you they go. Okay, it was And you're like no you've gotten that wrong Right, that's that's great when you actually tell somebody to check their references as he's implying right here But the problem is just lump those people in with people complaining about the last Jedi as if the last Jedi doesn't have problems It's like he's arguing or our subjective analysis Is gonna be wrong for whatever reasons. Let's find out what he thinks is actually right But like yeah, he's instantly assuming that you're wrong if you take the other position Well, I suppose so but it's almost he he won't give benefit of the doubt and he won't even Like entertain the idea. It's it's just this It's a very it only in the most broadest sense of what he's saying is it true But it's very obvious by the way that he's phrasing it and based on what he said previously in this video That he's absolutely looking down On the people who would disagree about this kind of thing Yeah, why not provide counter arguments to these references instead of simply saying Yeah, you guys you've got it wrong, but like I said in concept I agree with him if people are saying there are problems where they've simply got bad information That's fine. My problem is the context in which he's presented this He's implying that people who look for plot holes Typically get it wrong and that they're not actually plot holes at all with no references at least At least patrick actually gave references. They were bad references, but he gave her shit. Yeah, but they existed Perception is actually correct But while I'm inclined to agree that the way it encourages us to prioritize plot mechanics and structure over theme And impact is a much more damaging aspect like that's where impact see here again impact implying I like the I like how we said that we put a plot in whatever above theme It's like you have to put it above theme. We have to have plot first. Yeah once you have plot Everything else comes from it. That's how it works I would say that if you're making a movie and like if you're a director and you make a movie that has solid plot characters All that good stuff and you have you you don't think about theme you have no concept of Theme you don't make the movie Intending for people to get a theme from it people will still get a theme from it themes are that malleable you can there they're so They're nebulous and out there that even if you don't put a theme in your film There will be a theme in your film that people will draw from it Right and in this case he has to define what's so important about theme because if he doesn't do that We're like, oh, we should pay attention to theme. Okay, bob. What is that? He's assertive that themes are extremely important and i'm like I I like me a good theme. I preferred not to invent one And it's consistent element with like in reference to the plot or the characters to cover up a film's like horrific writing, but there we are This whole thing jumps from obsessive nitpicking for its own sake is shallow to the point of meaningless as an active film criticism to Oh, my god, stop it. You are literally murdering the concept of culture. I feel like an underdog Okay, whoa, what what what let's let's do that again Because what that's where this whole thing jumps from obsessive nitpicking for its own sake is shallow to the point of Meaningless as an active film criticism to oh my god. Stop it. You are literally murdering the concept of culture So it goes from you nitpick so much that you're actually hurting culture I don't think those were too extremes or two negative Sides you didn't I think that's what he's saying it starts as nitpickery and it moves into actual damage to culture Well, yeah, that well, yeah, that's why criticism of black panther eventually leads to the white ethno state not to mention Since cinemas in culture has just taken a dive Cinemas in ruined everything we used to have good movies But now we only have movies that pay attention to logical consistency That's a thing that happened curse you cinemas in for doing that how awful of you I can't it like I wonder if you'll qualify this because that is a crazy statement, but again movie bobs, so Oh my god, stop it. You are literally murdering the concept of culture I feel like an under discuss aspect is also how the otherwise neutrally malnutrious fact I'm I'm already gonna have to I'm already gonna have to listen to that again. Yeah, I didn't follow that at all He just speaks so fast and jumps throughout from one thing to another so quickly. It's It's borderline impossible to follow this video impossible for us to like we have to turn his video from nine minutes into Something just to hear him Yeah, this is nine minutes of video, but it's like 40 minutes of actual gobbledygook that he's spewing so let's let's see if we can derive some meaning. Oh my god. I hate Patrick Willems, but I will at least say Thanks for being relatively Yeah, thanks for speaking like a normal human being and the style the style is easy on the eyes for the most part Patrick Willems. Yeah, thanks for at least almost being coherent Anyway, this is some two. Oh my god. Stop it. You are literally murdering the concept of culture I neutrally malnutricious Oh, wait, I didn't hear it. Let me play. Oh Okay, let's let's give this culture. I feel culture I feel like an under-discussed aspect is also how the otherwise neutrally malnutricious fact of plot hole recitation Masquerading a substantive critique gets weaponized to make the subjective opinion. Fuck dude. No, I can't Okay, so what he's saying is that he doesn't like people who point out plot holes. That's all he's saying Yeah, that's that's basically yeah, he's saying That pointing out plot holes is essentially like It's it's a cheap way to subjectively say you don't like something Even if you can objectively You point out an objective error with the film. Yeah, there's no value to which those exist everyone by the way, I have never Seen such a ridiculous example of word salad in my life I mean Legit did not understand it. I I've listened to it three times though. This is insane It's unnecessarily bombastic and and quick for no reason aside from he wants to be like if you compare all the nonsense uh Allegories from a razor fist video with just some rambling bullshit from a jordan peterson video It then amplified it by like 150 and you get it is it is over extravagantly loquacious I see what you did there right It's also a normal person It's inside a normal person to people just people just want to simple concepts Well, even complex compass explain it in the simple terms, man Why do you need these crazy words and then say the really fast because he he never actually took a creative writing course. So Well, that's just creative writing is just Fucking nitpick or something Sure, I feel like an under discussed aspect is also how the otherwise neutrally malnutrious fact of plot hole recitation Masquerading a substantive critique gets weaponized to make the subjective opinion sound like objective fact for good or ill Okay, with that ending bit. I'm just going to take that as people have feelings and they use plot holes to define their feelings as factual experiences for everybody And I'm not concerned with the way they feel about them so much as is the plot hole that they mentioned a plot hole Exactly. That's that's usually mean all of our work is usually can you just accept that it exists? I don't care how you feel about it Yes, that's that's not how the plot works, unfortunately Yeah, essentially if you we can both agree that a plot hole exists in the film It's okay if you like the film But can we agree that the thing we're pointing out This this thing in the film that we can both point to at you know x x times such character does such or event happens And we at least agree on that and you can like it if you want But let's just come to agreement that the thing You know is what it is Yeah, and and this is the thing um, I would partially Actually use what what he just said I would use as an argument against people like just right I would say that they really enjoyed the film and so they've invented or Completely shifted the narrative or the reality of the film in order to argue that it's gotten in like an incredible construction So they're arguing their feelings as factual information on screen Which they've lied about but you can you don't need to just say it you can actually show it You can go okay So just right when you when you reference the hold of seed and then you talk to him and then You could see what happens. You don't have to just say that they're wrong You can actually show that they're wrong. It makes it have more substance, but obviously when you're speaking this fast I don't think you can shove anybody else's references in here alongside it. It would just be chaos Oh, dear good or ill the overriding concern here is after all less movie reviews video essays criticism Whatever as entities in and of themselves and their function is rhetorical ammunition in debate and discussion I failed to understand worth remembering is that nerd culture emerges from the field of academia engineering technology Mathematics the hard sciences, etc. I'll say this though. Donald Duck in mathematical land was amazing For those of you who haven't seen it. Did you know that culture involves math and science and technology, but cartoons and colors and shapes and Visual cues and audio cues. No, it's all all the sciences all the stem cells And in debate and discussion I failed to understand worth remembering is that nerd culture emerges from the field of academia engineering mathematics the hard sciences, etc Where academic debates have clear parameters and empirical conclusions and geek culture is when you get right down to it Yes, but for fake things. Oh, give me a break. Come on. So there's no standards There's no empirical data in any way for Scripts writing anything Nerds or X geeks or Y. Are you giving me a business crap? He's saying he's saying that he's a nerd and he's super intelligent and smart because his kind of geek or a nerdery It's the same thing, but when he does it it's it's a nerdery So it comes from mathematics and the hard sciences, but when other people do it It's geekery, which is different next level levels of how great I am because I'm not from group A and The fucking post-hoc shit people do for the fucking last Jedi is insane He's been doing this well before the last Jedi I think but you are right though Probably it just brings it to the surface Oh my god You're stood that no matter how serious you could get yourself to take it The fact that there couldn't ever actually be a true empirical conclusion to debates Like is superman stronger than captain marvel or Picard versus kirk was what they could be it depends on what information we have Yeah, you can I mean like I know it sounds a little like anal, but you can measure force Force is a thing that can be scientifically measured. So the one of the other is we do that Well, you're referring to midichlorians Oh For cooking for card, I mean, I'm sure arguments can be made depending on the scenario But it's just like those are wow those are what do you think happens when you do these things like you go wolverine versus Hawkeye you go well wolverine because Anything hawkeye does won't be permanent And uh This discussion he just brought up. I mean, yeah, you can talk about that. There's a channel called The character battles between each other and they they look at the math and the science and The believability of it, but this is a total non sequitur. He's just rambling on topic This is non sequitur the video Yeah, I'm not sure how this assists his point really, but um, I suppose the overall point is that you cannot Uh distill media or art down to a scientific level like you can with science math whatever else So now is objective criteria bad or I don't I don't understand. Is it good or bad? I guess the news he did highlight that it's possible, but now he's kind of saying That you can't do it really He shows odd examples like is one character better than another, you know, what do you mean by better in what sense? but I mean You it's just it's a different thing to say Can you find out objectively if this is a plot hole or not, which generally you probably can and is Kirk or our is Kirk or Picard better Like those are two comparable things that you could reach a conclusion with using the same thought process And yeah, I'm curious like what in a fistfight or in a logical debate on what should be done about x y and z like Yeah, I don't like it because Listening to him it makes me feel like What are you saying that the conversation should just start and end the moment you bring it up You'd be like well, there's no way to know so give it up. It's like well, we do have Actual things to reference here. We have facts about them. We have we have events and choices they've made These are things that happen. They are definitive Reason plying is like no this is about as much substance in that as deciding whether or not A ghost would win in a battle with a vampire. It's like Uh A true empirical conclusion to debates like is Superman stronger than captain marvel or Picard versus kirk was part of the fun of doing it It is kirk though. It's kirk james tyberius kirk Wait, are you saying the fact that you can't get an answer is why it's it's fun? I think it's it's the process is fun Like yeah, I would agree with that but there's several examples where you can get a conclusion Like I said, there are just some That are just definitively like oh well. Yeah, that person would win with what we know facts. Why is I suppose we'll never know empirically because we can't have them battle in real life. Is that his point? I mean it depends. Um, you would have to assuming that you can have uh True false premises Then maybe that's the case. Uh, like if if there was like in canon Objective measurements of strength or something like that then you could use those and come to a conclusion But yeah, if he's trying to argue that lore is bad and have focusing on all the details is bad because you're not focusing on I can see where he might be going but uh, there's nothing wrong with What what who would win in a battle? What what would happen if these two starships from different lore came together? There's nothing wrong with that There's nothing wrong with experimenting and having fun with with culture that you've You've had I suppose he's not saying there's anything wrong with it. You're saying you can't get an empirical answer So what and yeah, and the thing is like there is a right answer But whether or not you can reach it. Yeah, that's a different thing We need we'd need more information in the in the scenario where we couldn't get the answer For example, like, you know, what's stronger vibranium or adamantium? It's like well, we need to ask the writers if there's no Reference or look at what they can do and what their limits are you'd be like, there is no answer to that empirically It's like well, no, there would be if we had the information we need to get the empirical answer Yeah, because there is an answer one of them. They're not exactly the same Imagine there's just a scientist in one of the movies who says Vibranium I've never heard of it. I've only worked with adamantium and then they go Oh, it's twice as strong as adamantium. Then we have our answer Because that that's officially a rule now because a scientist said it in the universe meaning they would have researched it Do you know what I mean because scientists had a moment of weakness? I don't know if this is kind of like an argument for It's not empirical in our universe because it's fictional But you can get an empirical answer from the fiction If that makes sense like its own context. Yeah, it's it's a it's a true false premise It's basically if you take a fictional world, there are true things that exist within a fictional premises You follow that smug boy or you've got any different kind of take on it Uh, I want to know where he's going with it first off because he sounds as if it's this is impossible to achieve And it's like well, it's not impossible if you read all the lore Or you have access to all the lore But I want to know where he's going with this because I was his point behind doing it. It is kirk though It's kirk james tiberius kirk It just is but now it feels like a growing segment of geek culture believes or wants to make itself believe that subjective opinion on art Entertainment fiction etc can be empirically settled with a correct answer If only the almighty algorithm can be supplied with enough hard data and thus But the definition defeats itself if it's subjective Yeah, he started false premise. There's like you can prove your subjective thing to be factual It's like but they're two different things. Yeah, but then it's not subjective We're not trying to argue from a subjective objective Perspective we are starting with objective observation And we're saying this is what's going on right now. I'm seeing it. I'm hearing it and this the next scene This is what's going on. That's all we're doing and then we're taking a step back and wait a second Why did that happen? That's not what the guy wanted to do in the first part of the movie He wanted to go to x. Why is he going to y? That's a plot hole That's exactly what we we observe and then he comes back with you're just arguing your feelings and you'll be like That's not my feelings Well, I mean, I guess I could feel it but it's also true Yes, no, he he's already from the perspective of war Because he was this whole spiel on on how you can never know enough to know what is, you know, Kirk versus Spock or whatever Like, okay. Well, yes, you can and it's all observable and it's not our opinion That's just what the lore is telling us. This is what the fiction is telling us So what's your argument? It's not possible. We know it's possible. It's not our it's not our subjective interpretation We're listing the damn freaking movie. It's what they it's what the movie told us It's not making up And our subjective opinions can reflect an objective truth. Exactly Yeah, it's just not true because we think it is It's just we we have the correct basically the correct opinion about something that's objectively true I think that's that's actually tied to where all this confusion comes from the idea that you could never feel something that's definitively a fact like because It's important because basically like, you know, you know, I don't need to tell you that I feel like water is wet you'd be like your water isn't wet first off but Here here's a good here's a good explanation. All right I feel that two plus two equals four But it's not true because I feel it Those things just happen to Both align together. Yeah, and when we present it to him in an argument We don't say we don't start with I felt that characters should have gone to x Because they said they're going to x we go character said they were going to x And then they went to y Respond to this please and then they go, that's just how you feel you go. That's I haven't presented my feelings Yes, I haven't told you how I felt. Yeah, I could feel that that's the case. I could feel completely differently. I'm asking you to respond Yeah, like I could have no problem with this personally That's actually yeah, that's something that a lot of people miss is like half the well not half Half the tiny complaints that me or wolf may have in movies They have no idea whether or not it actually bothers the shit out of us or not It's just stuff that we can pick up. We could be like, oh This is something that they made a mistake with this is something Yeah, and that adds up. Yeah, and you might not have noticed it But your brain did and displaying the fact that it happened does not tell you what we felt about it definitively unless we say it as I suppose that's It's all about communication I suppose, you know defining your terms and then letting people know the differences Or you could just say a bunch of things in a row and hope that the audience can pick it up for themselves. I suppose Those are the empirical data points like x number of plot holes or over in the land of video games polygon counts rendering speeds CPU schematics, etc are granted outsized credence over the macro questions of overall experience and how did the story How can that's two different conversations though? Yeah, those are two does he is he is just saying a lot of stuff right now It do not There are words. He's well. He said like you go. Let's say for example someone's like let me report on the Technological achievements of the ps4 and spider-man the new game that came out on it and they talk about the graphics the The the port if it was one let's say it was originally a pc game or something They got ported and he's talking about the the optimization then it then it goes through all the different features you've got for Controls all this objective stuff and then he says right at the end To be honest guys, you know, I played it and I loved it. I thought it was amazing I thought it was a great representation of what's in the comics. I really enjoyed myself and to be honest I think I'll be playing this game Through again, it's like, you know, there's a switch between I displayed all these facts for you And now I'm going to talk about how it made me feel and he's just treated it as if like you choose one And and you diminish the other doesn't mean they can't interact in any way It's just that they're kind of two different conversations Like you can say spider-man runs at 30 fps This, you know, objectively you could say I don't I don't know if I assume it is because it's on a fucking console, but Um, let's say spider-man runs at 30 frames per second So if I was to play that game that would bug me and that would take away my enjoyment So you can have two things that are parallel, but they're different It's objective that the game runs at 30 fps. It is subjective that it bothered me Well, it's objective that it did bother me, but that's you know, how I felt about it Then that gets the two different things too, but You see the point I'm getting yeah, this I just feel like he's blending them by design here Like like he wants to blend them just to make this more confusing It is a strange way he's combined them Like etc are granted outside credence over the macro questions. That's the key point. He says they're granted outside credence They're granted outside credence. The technical stuff is granted outside credence to the experience The audience has is always going to be subjective Exactly, but you can observe that these things are objective, but we're talking about apples and oranges here So I don't know why he's But that's the thing he said it like it's wrong if I'm to get this right. I haven't checked the words yet Granting outside credence as in something has relevance outside of experience Or is that what he's trying to because I I would say that's true The objective stuff is the stuff that we can all see here and understand and talk about While the subjective stuff is you know, all four of us would have reacted differently to the last Jedi It would have been very close probably, but it would have all been different if you could scale emotions We'd all be completely different. Well, let's imagine that this this new spider-man film has A polygon count for the character 10 frames per second You know 32 big graphics palette, you know very low low tech stuff Would that Lose the immersion. I don't think so if the whole world is presented that way And we believe in the world who cares what it looks like realistically or believably or photo realistically That's the experience we wanted. That's what we got as we're watching through. We're still watching through it We put we play to the end We've had this experience we we can play with that Willing suspension of disbelief or had just fine regardless of the technical achievement of the game It's some people. Yeah I don't know. It's just one of those things where if you say hey, this game runs at 10 frames per second And that's objective and some people can say i'm fine with that And most people would probably say that's this is unplayable. I can't I can't play this game like that But those are two different things that are running side by side to each other Yeah, and the key is being able to identify one Yeah, does it pull you out of experience? Yes or no, yeah, that's for everybody to say isn't it? Sure They think they can all everyone has a different reaction because he said granted outside credence to me I'm just like it should be they're separate things You can obviously say that the reason you felt bored in kanto bite was because you weren't interested in any of the things that were going on there Like that, you know, you explain you try to explain your feelings with with as many facts as you can gather to try and Correlate but again, they're still just there's a line drawn between the things that actually happen and are there This is how you felt about them And outside credence. I'm not entirely sure what he's trying to say there But yes, they should be separated because they are separate Simple as that Of overall experience and how did the story tone aesthetic affect you on an emotional or visceral level and that awkwardly eschew prioritizing Leaves a lot of room open for plot hole dumps being at least ostensibly lists of matter of fact Did you know feelings? He he tried to tie in some sort of subjective interpretation then to Say that because it's subjective and then we throw in our Interpretation of what what a plot hole is or making observations of plot hole That this is somehow bad like what what do you think? Also, as rags just said feelings are for sjw's like That's a pretty titanic straw man Movie bop I've never never I've never heard any anti sjw. So you shouldn't feel things. Do we how do we respond to that one? It's like, yeah, uh, we value feelings. So I could assure you feelings are important Yeah, it's very strange Oh Honestly, that was a lot of gibberish. Yes. And we just keep going During speed cpu schematics, etc are granted outsize credence over the macro questions of overall experience and how did the story tone aesthetic Effect you on an emotional or visceral level and that awkwardly eschew prioritizing leaves a lot of room open for plot hole dumps being at least ostensibly lists of matter of fact observation to be Undeservedly held up as determinant of a work being seriously flawed for want of more substantial criticism. Okay Okay No, now it makes sense now. He's saying, you know, there's this whole wonderful emotional experience Then there's also this this mental logical observational And that they're they're in conflict with each other and we can't have It's like, okay. It's like if I if they if they're in conflict to you, I guess Yeah, man, that's that's fucking that's a shame, man. I'm like, all right, but man that what a fucking shame Yeah, it's like it's like patrick just lost his left hemisphere against the same condition. It's like, oh logic. What's that? I don't want logic in my stories. Why why would you do that? I hate this idea that logic is the enemy to emotion It's like, yeah, man to me they go hand in hand so well because I I watched um, I watched the witch um earlier this week And I really really liked it in part because of how Like logically the characters behave within their own, you know worldview, right? Like what they were doing was logical to them And so that really helped to draw me into the story and I enjoyed it a lot more because of that If they were doing things that to themselves at least made absolutely no sense Then it would it would really really take away from the story, especially because it's basically here are characters plot occurs um But man, I feel so I feel Maybe genuine bitty for people Who think that logic is the enemy of yeah, well media. You don't understand what plot actually is if I could put it in a different way Think of plot as feeling with logic. It's like I want something. I want to do something I want to achieve something and I'm going to go and get that thing now that thing You can call x I'm going to go from a to x. That's a logical association A implies x or a implies going to x. That's it. That's the plot That's that's as simple as it can get a plot is what a plot is what ought to happen Uh, the goal of the plot is what ought to happen. Yes But the the actual plot is just basically a desire what it's your emotion for something to do something Whatever it's motivation And logic just says oh the character wanted to pick a flower Why isn't he picking flowers? Why is he running around the house like there has to be some correlation between just just a random example like somebody hits you You get angry That's logical There's a logical progression of events there just because it's emotional as a reaction doesn't mean now that logic has to be flown out the window Like no that makes sense Yeah, you have a you have a plan or a goal or a thing Yes, it's logical that people have emotional responses to things And again, they just they get completely like separated into you can have one or the other you cannot have both Although one takes away from the other. It's just it's just nonsense You want to prove that a movie you hate is objectively the worst thing ever But you don't want to sweat having to put your own subjective opinion thereof up for scrutiny a big What is he talking about? This is just he's just separated it himself. What does he think objective means? If this is objectively the worst movie ever is like maybe he thinks people are I've only heard people say that jokingly Yeah Well, I will say this this is objectively Given me a headache to the point that I think I am going to call it a night Because I am just actually just not feeling very well right now. It's okay, man. I think it's actually abusing that Movie Bob killed you Movie Bob actually broke me to the point where it's like, oh my god. I just want to die Listening to this video I could take Patrick Willems. I can't take movie Bob That's right, man. Look after your look after your brain and uh, yeah I'll catch you again sometime have a fun Fun night everyone. I hope you're reliable I'm gonna have to beat off pretty hard after this Uh Can I join you? No Oh I think this is something this I think this is something that I need to Undo on my own Okay. Well in that case maybe later. I will see you guys We do this next week. So I'll see you guys next week All right, man. We we could 69 after the next downward thrust video we do Sounds like a good idea. Yeah, sounds great. He's gonna make the audience go nuts They're gonna be drawing things and you on twitter you guys just ask for it. They already have They already have All right. Well, I'll I'll I'll see you next week or whatever wolf. Yeah Good meeting you smud You too sir All right. See you guys Okay, you can go now. There we go. It's like wolf. Fucking leave. Get out of here But yeah, I get what he's saying The the the feeling he gets like this is like static It's like video essay static This might be We've never had to pause this much like this is almost like perfectly taking the name of the podcast because He he crams nonsense into like finite pieces because very Very dense my take on what we just heard was him basically saying People try to prove that something is objectively bad with like Facts and logic and stuff while trying to ignore the fact that their subjective opinion is is obviously something that They don't want to have on screen because it'll be scrutinized as in Like like if I said the last Jedi is the fucking worst thing to ever happen to cinema And then I'm like, oh, I better not say that what I'll say instead Is that the last Jedi has all these plot holes and I'll let I'll label them and then I'll say you see Objectively it is the worst thing to happen to cinema and there I'm satisfied I thought he interpreted as as you saying that is not objective But your subjective interpretation of why it's bad. God. I hope he's not saying that I think that's what he's Let's let's give another listen. Should we The fact that this is like a video essay whatever And people are drawing multiple conclusions Based on what's in it like it's the fucking Bible or some shit is Really kind of weird like you should be concise and clear not, you know overly verbose and I just I love the idea that I do this with everything we give a description of what we think it is and then someone else goes No, it's this and someone probably in chat would be like, no, it's this I just like guys. This is not a good thing that's happening This shouldn't be this difficult Have more substantial criticism said more plainly if you want to prove that a movie you hate is objectively the worst thing ever But you don't want to sweat having to put your own subjective opinion thereof up for scrutiny a big pile of plot holes Real or perceived will do nicely even when taking this very shortcut ends up I'm stuck at the point of He said you wouldn't want your subjective perspective like scrutinized, but it's like you can't even scrutinize a subjective perspective if it's entirely emotional based Yeah, like if I said to you I despise this film it annoys me to no end and then someone says like that's wrong What are they gonna do and maybe he's confusing the subjective takeaway with the objective data That's the thing I I don't know. I don't know what he's saying We shouldn't have to try and find out what you're saying movie bob Like maybe that's why after 10 years I hate to keep referencing patrick willams as being a superior essayist, but I could understand what patrick willams was saying It was bad, but it made more sense Patrick is just a child the movie bob is a child trying not to be one He's a child acting like an adult trying to it's as many of including us and and I think child said it's just like He swallowed a thesaurus and he's just vomiting up random words all in a row and just like oh god I want to sweat having to put your own subjective opinion thereof up for scrutiny a big pile of plot holes Real or perceived will do nicely even when taking this very shortcut ends up exposed Well, hang on. He said real or perceived as in you can have actual definitive plot holes meaning objective Objective flaws. Surely that's what he would say they are right Yeah, because they're real. He's like he said real plot holes and if you can have objective flaws You can have an objective assessment. I'm not saying what would be in this objective assessment But as long as he agrees it exists Then he said it does I mean maybe he maybe he didn't think that maybe he thought more words was better than Just fewer concise ones But he seems to one of the few clear things to me in this fucking video Is that he agrees on objective? You know issues and films that can be raised. So I just caught call it. It says it's very easy. Listen to the entire sentence That's how language works. I'm not sure if that person's actually defending that movie bob actually creates sentences because These feel like run-on stream of consciousness. Yeah, like you've plugged in his brain. It's just called Criticism said more plainly if you want to prove that a movie you hate is objectively the worst thing ever But you don't want to sweat having to put your own subjective opinion thereof up for scrutiny A big pile of plot holes real or perceived will do nicely even when taking this very shortcut ends up exposing the reason Why successful narratives generally prioritize theme and aesthetic above logic and structure Namely that human thinking is not logical by No, yeah, I don't think that's true at all I don't think that's true. The opposite of the truth. Yeah. Yeah Especially in science fiction or space opera logic has to be the number one quality In terms of keeping the the story consistent and believable So if you don't have rock solid logic of the lore of the character motivations Of the the science and tech or physicist or fantasy, whatever it is Your story falls apart. So It's when it's solid you are then allowed to have the drama hit very high Have the melodrama work well as opposed to having Unbelievable settings and unbelievable situations. So yeah, what he just said was the exact opposite Yeah, think of uh, think of a film like you're watching a football game If there are no rules then the game will suck But if there are rules that everyone, you know abides by and follows then the game is enjoyable And if people break the rules, which is essentially what what a plot hole can be compared to where you have an established You know have established criteria And you part with that and you break it Then you know that affects how the game is played Now he could be talking about uh, auteur theory or how he The cinema from the perspective of the Okay, i'm going to make a film and i'm going to make a film piece. This is more of the Um avante garde style of cinema making which you see a lot of french Uh film shows uh, or sorry film festivals. So Maybe he's going for the effect the the context of things as opposed to the content actually having problems Which um, you know, you're doing context over clarity I could see that as Possibly being an argument that could work in the context of cinema Not in the context of storytelling The fact that you have to say all of that after he says like one sentence We really have no idea what's going on This very shortcut ends up exposing the reason why successful narratives generally prioritize theme and aesthetic above logic and structure Namely that human thinking isn't Also success in what sense success in telling a story or success in making money. Yeah, is he saying that The most successful movies are just illogical Well, obviously if you're focusing on drama, it'll be so I guess I wouldn't yeah, I wouldn't put it past them though If you use more ice in your drink I mean like we just watched a video of a guy and that was his criteria was basically it made money Therefore its quality Yeah, the shortcut ends up exposed The reason why successful narratives generally prioritize theme and aesthetic above logic and structure Namely that human thinking is not logical by default in reality and thus no one living in a Yes, it is. There you go. That's the Patrick Williams point that he's echoed Uh humans beings are illogical. We're not perfect Obviously, but we do operate logically. Yeah, I feel like there's this difference between Irrational and illogical as in we do a thing that to the outside world It's like, why would you do that? But then we have our own logic in the head that's functions. Yeah, I'll I'll use the witch as an example again We see for those of you don't know what's story about a bunch of basically very, you know bunch of Puritans And they're super super religious And they see the world through that lens in almost every aspect To them that is logical To us it is not Like everything they do is through the context of you know the bible and god and you know satan and salvation That's how they view the world and so as a result all of their actions Logically are in step with that But to us as an outside observer Would they are not behaving logically to us? But those characters think that they are take the joke example He actually explains his crazy logic in the dark night He has logic It's just that uh, it's well, you I guess you could call it broken It's the same for Thanos. He explains himself. He has his logical progression of I do this because of this this this and you can you can draw like emotional events or or or uh Experiences that the color this these decisions that that have given them this sense of logic It's like bad information for example that planet that got saved because Thanos culled half of the people on it He's like therefore culling half of the universe will save the universe. It's like that's not that's bad information That that just doesn't follow but you you think it does Yeah, but to him it does and so he thinks he's acting logically so when we see him doing things we're like, okay He's following his internal logic Like this is the thing is so much more interesting than he's making it sound there's so much more to explore We're talking about basic Aristotelian logic. We're not talking about every kind of flavor of science that we've used logic in uh physics, um, you know It's a very mundane sort of interpretation of logic And what we go through mentally in our day-to-day so Ah People are complicated. They're not one or the other exactly Human society is operating in a logical world to begin with for example I'm old enough to remember when the main place you'd see epic lists of plot holes was the imdb message boards May they burn in hell where for a very long time the longest mistakes list was for titanic And you know the reason why had very little to do with it having more mistakes than other movies at size And everything to do with it being a popular movie that a lot of people didn't like the omnipresent popular This is irrelevant Yeah, plus plus you're you're assuming the intentions of people on the internet back in whatever year you're talking about We don't even need to define whether or not he's accurate here because it has no relevance to his point People talked about titanic imdb used to be a haven for Discret listing plot holes. Okay. Okay to both of those. They don't mean anything Do you like do you think that? Let's take it back old school shakes be your man Like his plays make sense as someone just sort of mentioned in the chat It's like what does he mean? He's so old that he went to imdb to look at like movie stuff like like facts about movies Like I used to do that and I'm not I'm 24 like I don't I'm not that old I mean, I mean his I mean hit the video title is about whole server's reference. So I I don't know. It's This point doesn't make sense all that much really I mean if if people want a good assessment of titanic, by the way, watch watch plinkett deconstruct it He does a really good job It's genuinely a fun video because it made me rethink how I thought of titanic And he does a very fair assessment of like the good parts and the bad parts of titanic And if if that was a result of having read the lists on imdb Obe it Yeah, it doesn't change it doesn't change where you where they said it and how angrily they say it does not change what they are saying But yeah, that's uh, I whatever he can continue. This is fine Pilarity of after a while and being able to rattle off a giant list of structure issues was a good way to dunk on tight Why does he say that like oh, yeah wow with the quotes structure issues. It's like you are there no Are there none? Well, he already admitted that there are both real and not real issues. So Are these the fake ones movie barb, or are these the real ones that you're talking about? I Whatever will let him continue a popular movie But a lot of people didn't like the omnipresent popularity of after a while and being able to rattle off a giant list Of structure issues was a good way to dunk on titanic fans while sounding like you were simply a more sharp-eyed discerning connoisseur of film So there you go. That's that's what this all comes down to. He's assuming that the intention of people like us is to Like to to purport that our feelings were the correct results because of the facts at hand And and this is coming from movie bob who gave a shout out to the guy who said Unironically you're watching movies the wrong way Yeah, I think that about sums it up to me. I mean the irony is palpable of course, but um Uh, I was going to say something about this probably related to titanic. Um That I think I got lost in thought and again just just to account for this Um someone in chat said you've completely lost track of what he's saying and pausing to analyze half sentences isn't helping That's not what we're doing No, we are not losing track. We are attempting to find out what he is saying And I think I've we're grabbing full sentences. So yeah, man It's because it's because it takes him a frame to make a full sentence He spit not words man like a machine gun Um, yeah, so then they were rather than uh, I'm so tired of hearing about the boat movie god It was such a Well, also it makes sense that they would criticize really popular films because if you talk about films that people haven't seen Then I mean they're just gonna have to take your word for everything I find that um, if you want to approach a topic about writing in general Then you know the the the movie that you take say for example, you could do in movies Then just just take one that the mainstream understand or have at least seen then they'll be able to join the conversation I I I suppose that's a less nefarious way of looking at it because It has to be nefarious, right I guess I mean like he started off by assuming the intentions of people on imdb Back in 1997 so And yeah, and by the way like I'm sure many people in shacken understand this like It's pretty hard to to do this video In general like because he says so much stuff so quickly like he's like got three points in one sentence So it's like we rewind we keep rewinding. Surely that's evidence that we're trying to find out exactly what he's trying to say I think I think anyway Who's was a good way to dunk on titanic fans while sounding like you were simply a more sharp eye Discerning connoisseur of film than they were rather than uh, I'm so tired of hearing about the boat movie god It was such a checklist, right? Oh, it looked to you like there was probably room on the door for both of them Like maybe there was space and it was a big enough door and would have supported both their bodies out of the water And jack wouldn't have had to freeze and they could have I can't remember if I actually thought that when I first saw the movie because I was I was young obviously, um I can't remember if I thought that but I'm pretty sure mythbusters did Do this and they proved that It's possible, but it'd be really difficult that you'd have to get the life preserves underneath the door And that's not something that's simple to pull off You're freezing. Yeah, I mean in plus when you're going, you know when you're in this scenario, you know You know probably not you're probably not at your most lucid But this is my this is my how it comes down to an issue, right? Let's just say for example, I adore titanic and then rags brought this to me. He's like by the way Jack could have just gotten on the door dude That kind of takes away from the entire final event and then and then I'd be like, hmm But you've gone on the door And then it's like how could we find that out and it's like well, look at the scene see the space See how much it's floating I guess kind of inconclusive and then you get people like mythbusters to have like some kind of definitive proof That we could discuss we it doesn't have to be that I automatically assume that rags is trying to undo my perspective That rags is like dunk on him. But even then isn't isn't that a form of appreciating the movie? Like what's wrong with that? Yes, I mean, it's a discussion to me. It didn't need to become this idea of us versus them like Yeah, did mythbusters did you assume that mythbusters hate this movie because they tested it? Exactly Also, I need a pee because I drink a lot of water I need a lot of pussy While you go for a pee what's your take on movie bob smud boy uh just overly like bombastic and pedantic And he's his ideas are They're not connected like he's he's saying things that that are not Equally transferable to what he's trying to explain. So it's like, okay You have subjective opinions and you cannot observe the objective or you cannot express objective It's like, yes, you can we do it all the time. We do it in science. We do it with the scientific method We do it with math. We do it Um sitting down for lunch. I mean, it's this is a common practice. So It seems as if he's putting a a high level of Of importance to People interpreting things As opposed to people understanding what they're seeing And and observing like this. This is what we do when we look at a game This is what's going on. This is not my opinion. This is actually what's happened Yeah, and that's it. That's all we're doing. We're not doing anything special I genuinely think it makes for an interesting conversation and if you don't want to be a part of that conversation, that's absolutely fine Pretty much like if you go, I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about how it made me feel It's like, okay. Well, that's not what we're talking about Like so, you know, that's cool and everything and it's not that we wouldn't talk about it It's just that don't do it at the exact same time like you you highlight to me The luke is inconsistent and then I say well, I enjoyed it. You'd be like Okay That's fine. Good There's nothing to do with what I said Because that's the thing they they automatically assume you're presenting your feelings I felt the using consistent rather than he wasn't consistent What I observe over the years is what people or what I've seen in and media, which is actually good is not how how, you know, the highs of drama or the highs of Science fiction or whatever It's that that piece of fiction didn't have any lows didn't have any errors didn't have any flaws So things like the princess bride is just a fun adventure movie that happens to be about romance and happens to be about a frame where a grandfather was A pause sorry A sneeze Yeah, we'll go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead No, I was just talking about how how great the princess bride movie as well. Oh, yeah Because it's so simple. There's there's very there are actually plot holes in there But the actual storytelling Doesn't make you aware of them very well. They're there if you think about them But it's magical enough. It draws you in enough that you're you're following everything and everything's so clear That you don't stop and think go. Hey, wait a second Doesn't uh, Wesley have a whole pirate army on his boat. Can't they just rush the castle? You know, all these little questions about pop up. You don't think about it And after the fact you do think about it. Yeah. Yeah, that that is kind of silly But it still doesn't degrade the story It just makes you think in a different way. Yeah, you could take something like that And you could just go all the way with it and you could say this The princess bride there are plot holes everywhere and you can prove that they're plot holes And okay, sure. It's okay to still love the movie Exactly, we shouldn't need to say that but we apparently have to all the time Yeah Lived happily ever after and that's such an obvious plot contrivance and it totally broke your immersion. Wow. You're so right It's just such bad writing that 220 some things you just spent hours running He really is focused on this door thing. Yeah, this seems like he's pissed about this Do you think do you think this is the reason why he puts it in so that people will be like, oh, yeah I agree with that and so that all the other stupid shit that went on in the In the in the video he's making they just because he gets glossed over Like I agree with him on this bit. So the rest of it's probably right He's like if I sprinkle this this video of fucking garbledy Gook With this door thing that everyone knows about or People have heard about or with this and that then maybe I can trick people into thinking this is good content I mean Like I said, so before the analysis, I knew about the myth busters thing So as far as I'm concerned, it's not even an issue because it would have been really hard for jack to have done What was suggested and it would have risked rose, which is another reason why he could have decided Yeah, fuck it. I'm not gonna do that. I'll just once you get wet you're fucked Yeah, but there's there's a lot. There's just it makes sense. I think that scene but um, let's see what he seems to have You're so right. It's just such bad writing that 220 somethings You just spent hours running climbing handcuff escaping getting shot at nearly drowning multiple times All while escaping a sinking ship and are now gradually freezing to death in the middle of the fucking ocean Conscious of the fact that they may be exchanging their last words to each other on earth Don't act with 100 clear-headed logic That's the honor if they're on the ocean. Okay, so you mean this this is why this is evidence that we do listen to them By the way, he made a lot of logical arguments for why they would be unable to have Committed to the action, right? He said like they would have been exhausted. They would have been way over their heads They've been through extreme drama There's like all these things you can actually consider these are things that actually happened And then he's like, so why didn't they make a logical decision? Because they're emotional right now. It's like, you know, you don't need to you don't need to say that That that that wasn't actually something that's like a different argument now You were talking about actual tangible things that we can actually discuss like If jack was exhausted, he's not going to be able to pull off the task The myth Buster said would have been required That's an actual argument Which he would be exhausted because of the amount of swimming and running and everything that he's just described like this is And he's doing right now What I assumed was his issue in the first place With people, you know, like, um, we present an argument that's like pedantic with all the information presented And then he actually counters provides a bunch of even more pedantic information to actually make the scenario make sense And then he's like, also, you shouldn't do this anyway. And it's just like, oh Well, uh, Patrick Williams did the same thing. He said like, um, these things don't matter and then he actually has responses Like to counter them. It's like if they don't matter why even bothering with the with the counters He denies logic that starts using it. It's it's exactly hypocritical. Very strange And start puzzling out the weight mass area buoyancy ratio of their present situation That would have been so much more narratively and emotionally satisfying than it doesn't Well, fuck it. We could fix it. We just make the door smaller Yeah And maybe people do find that satisfying Like he he went through all this trouble to try and explain it away when I could just be like I think the scene may have run a bit better if you made the door small enough that it looked like It could fit one and a half roses And so you'd be like, oh, yeah, if he gets on there too, it's probably not gonna last like there you go If you make the door big enough that everyone's asking why couldn't jack it on it too Who knows maybe that could be an element of Maybe we should change that up. But again, as far as I know, this was proven to be the jack probably wouldn't have been able to do it so Yeah, and you know what I mean the conversation's over. I didn't even tell you what I felt about the scene there I didn't say whether it was bad or good. Even I just said you could make that change So why not make that change? And that would be something to consider next time you make this film or someone has a similar scene There you go. Nobody had to be hurt, you know, we didn't have to take anything away from anybody when we said that Matter that they both could ever not because jack willingly allows himself to die in order to make absolutely sure that rose does not A final act of such complete selfless devotion that cements our understanding of why this was the defining emotional connection of Her entire life as symbolized by the fact that she has never revealed the heart of the ocean The only keepsake of that part of her life to anyone until symbolically returning it and herself to the sea See, he thinks that's subjective. That's all objective as far as I know These are all things that actually happen in the film Yeah, all of those things you could trace and track and they're established And so like this is so weird, but like I agree with you, Bob I follow this. Bob, why don't why don't you agree with yourself? Which is what you call a series of themes if you have even a rudimentary grab I don't think you call them themes. Yeah, what is he talking about? Let's just give that a full listen again This was the defining emotional connection of her entire life as symbolized by the fact that she has never revealed the heart Of the ocean the only keepsake of that part of her life to anyone until symbolically returning it and herself to the sea Which is what you call a series of themes if you have even a rudimentary grasp of how humans work as emotional beings Wait, wait, wait symbolically returning it and herself her she actually returned it and herself to the ocean But she She didn't she just threw it back in she didn't go back in. Oh, yeah, she doesn't go back into she she just dies She stays on the boat and she dies I'm very confused because he's mixed a lot of things that actually happen And he's decided to can like And what's the theme? What does the theme have to do with all of this theme? I'd love to hear him just what is the theme in in a in a in a sentence or just described in a It's an anti capitalist message the theme of never forget who truly loved you if that's a theme of Of Kill Forget the past kill it if you have to Of I but I think what's really interesting here, too Is that right after this he says Which is really like you're doing a good thing Kind of you're like analyzing stuff that's in the film you're pointing out things that actually happen You made up the one about returning herself to the ocean So fucking made that up pull that out of your ass But the other the rest of it was really good and you're trying to pass it off as Like you're doing a good thing, but then you told us earlier. It's not a good thing Where what is your stance bob? Is it the theme of what makes true love? Is that it? True, I don't know. I don't know. That's the thing. I'm confused because that's the thing about themes If we fucking anything you want them to be basically They're just so that's just a confusing section This is the thing if he was here We could actually have like an actual discussion right that would take so long to get through to understand That he would have had to have made like an hour video to get his point across with clarity But then he would have had to justify it But then he would be looked at the same way that I am where it's like, ah, you Fucking have you couldn't explain a simple idea in under an hour. That's a pathetic video very strange So you had to do this in nine minutes and it's only now that I'm starting to like Be able to chew on something but it's only because he actually had references for a movie that existed That's because he did the thing that he started off saying was not good Yeah, he's doing it. He's doing the reverse, right? So we we pick all these things apart in titanic Let's say then he picks it apart back at us. He's like look at all these things These are good things. These are things that tell us things and it's like, oh, oh great And then he's like this is thieb. You're like what? I didn't follow that Themes if you have even a rudimentary grasp of how humans work as emotional beings Ahem Yeah, he's saying I guess he's telling us that we don't have a rudimentary For how people work as human beings. Yeah, we do because themes Yeah, because the person the person who's an unironic apologist for eugenics is telling us about rudimentary Understanding of how people's emotions work. It's a job. They're really ruining the word theme I find they use it for everything And like see all yeah, it because it could be so much And so little and everything and nothing And like putting in it saying it's better than everything else in terms of elements and then you're like But you haven't even told me what it is to you It's just this mystical thing that happens Ahem see also No, it is not in fact a big problem that indiana jones could have just sat out the events of Raiders of the lost arc Because the lost arc was just going to blow up the nazis when they tried to open it anyway. Yeah, but he didn't know that Yeah, honestly, I haven't seen that film in so long that i'm not going to be able to counter whatever point he's making here to be honest Yes Yeah, I think he's making the point that it kills the nazis at the end. So he didn't it turns out he didn't have to bother But he didn't know that so he acted in a logical way With the information he had Yeah, so I don't know what bob's point is other than bob's wrong again. I just I don't understand this man. I don't understand this fucking man The plot mechanics of how that group of a dozen or so nazis and bella got blown up It's about dr. Jones undergoing a fundamental evolution in the way He views the supernatural and values the intangible esoteric value of the treasures He runs around grave robbing and was blithely dismissive of at the beginning of the store So does he consider all Is all of this object mechanics? What is he talking about? Is all of this objective or subjective because what he sounds like he's saying is things that could be proven With references like, you know, when he says dr. Jones didn't take whatever seriously You play a little clip of him saying like that's a bunch of mumbo jumbo and then at the end of the film That's not mumbo jumbo at all. It's like there you go What what are the plot mechanics of him? Whatever he was developing as I think he was talking about learning about Whatever he said What is that? How does that translate? How does that even work? What what plot mechanics do we have to go through to learn that or did he have to learn Also, he's what if you catch it? He's making that same argument that uh Willems did where In his mind The the arc thing doesn't make sense, right? Let's just go with that for a second The let's say he always knew that the arc was going to do that so going for it made no sense He's saying that doesn't matter because the film is about him moving forward as a character Now if you remember Patrick Willems said that the fact that holdo acts like a complete fucking idiot doesn't matter Because it's about giving a chance for Finn and Poe to grow So it comes back to the idea. It's like so you can have a plot that makes sense or you can choose one that doesn't Why did you choose the one that didn't make sense? Because that's what happens when your first draft is the final draft Or because it made sense to them at first and then they were like, oh fuck. Well, I've made the movie now No, because that's the thing you could save it all with themes It's the magical panacea to all your narrative woes applied directly to the forehead In the more immediate past beginning of the story in the more immediate past see yes The most recent main series star wars. Oh What are the what are the right there? This this i'm not sure how you introduced the last jelly. Let's have a look You have the treasures he runs around grave robbing and was blithely dismissive of at the beginning of the story I like of course movie bob. It's not archaeology. It's grave robbing. I was like, okay. I got you sure In the more immediate past see yes, the most recent main series star wars movie Activate shields deflect your shield. Okay, because because we're all gonna hate him for defending the last jet. I get it Yeah, some of you are gonna love me and some of you are gonna hate me Yes Which has been decried by a grand swath of the internet as being a wash in contrivance poor storytelling and plot holes galore By virtue of it depicting its main cast of emotionally compromised 20 year olds thrust haphazardly into unprepared leadership positions during a mass So he's making the argument that things don't make sense because it's being led by a bunch of young people who are emotionally You know lord like hold. Oh hold. It was very young Very inexperienced this general doesn't know anything about you man I wish all these women had flaws that they could go and develop with but I didn't actually see any so Yeah, I don't know what he's referring to exactly isn't rose a young person. I guess she wasn't flawed at all I just Let's hear it all to make sure but i'm pretty sure he's saying That uh, it's stupid for us to complain that things aren't logical because these are emotional and young characters making mistakes I think that's what he's getting at recent main series star wars movie Which has been decried by a grand swath of the internet as being a wash in contrivance poor storytelling and plot holes galore By virtue of it depicting its main cast of emotionally compromised 20 year olds thrust haphazardly into unprepared leadership positions during a massive War is making a lot of mistakes trusting the wrong people and or instincts generally not There you go. So that's Yeah, he thinks that explains the issues in the last jedi Yeah, yeah, the plot holes in the last jedi are because young people and what he claims is a giant war is um They can't make good decisions If I can explain this doesn't explain which doesn't explain hold. Oh, which doesn't explain Hux which doesn't explain snow which doesn't explain leia And it's like it doesn't explain luke as I don't I'm like man. Wow what I what i'm hearing here taken to the extreme is You you you watch a film where there's an emotionally breaking down character Who's just really upset and angry and they walk through a door and it just opens up into like a Fucking a giant pit and they fall right into it and then land on a dragon It takes them back up And then someone says you know like a teacher of the school that they were in Don't go down to the dragon pit ever again. Okay, and they're like, yeah, okay We point out that that made no sense whatsoever because it's like based on earth whatever and then they go Yeah, but she's emotionally You know, she's young and she's emotional So this illogical thing that takes place is explained because she's emotional Like you've completely blended two types of of like discussions again They keep doing this like something making not no sense Uh in the plot is not explained by some would be a emotional Just make every every character in all media young and there are no plot holes anymore Yeah, that's the thing any problem you could ever come up with You could be like oh well the characters were young and emotional Yeah, they were they were young and emotional or they were old and senile So why why wouldn't they using y-wings? They were young and emotional It's like, yeah, what? Why didn't huck shit? Why did huck's target the base first because Young and emotional was young and emotional Why was yoda able to use lightning as a force ghost? We've never seen that before because yoda is young and emotional It's young and emotional Fuck bob. Did you watch this fucking movie? Did you watch this video back? It's another question I Operating on a 100% logical basis at all times I mean sure it could be that there's a rattle unsubtle thematic intent to that and made obvious by the recurring plot presence of multiple Subtle made obvious. What the hell is he talking about them thematic plot presence? Like what the What are these terms? He said it was he said it was a subtle thing made obvious Let's do it again. I swear just at all times. I mean sure it could be that there's a rattle unsubtle thematic intent Oh, sorry. He said unsubtle. That's my bad Unsubtle I could have sworn he said subtle out of infamy. Yeah Unsubtle thematic intent. What the freaking unsubtle thematic intent it that That can't be found no matter how hard it's so unsubtle. It can't be found Logical basis at all times I mean sure it could be that there's a rattle unsubtle thematic intent to that and made obvious by the recurring plot presence of multiple dysfunctional mentor pupil relationships and an overarching theme of generational transition, but What What is plot presence? Does anyone know Plot presence. It means that it is present within the film because the entire film is the plot I suppose It's just another one of those shitty surface level Literally, he said something extremely simple, but he made it sound complicated with words that were unnecessary And then he was just flat out wrong on top. I've used the word plot a lot in a lot of my analyses But I've never used plot presence like what it's another way of saying it was there Not even kidding dude like Whatever it's the claim that it's the claim that they were there Multiple dysfunctional mentor pupil relationships and an overarching theme of generational transition But nah, it must just be bad writing or writing in service of an agenda Well, so an overarching theme uh as opposed to the normal theme which is Explains everything. So there's another bigger theme which explains everything else. I assume And the the whole like what nonsense to say it's in favor of of of an agenda And it's like what if the directors and the writers tell you that they had an agenda? Yeah, I mean there is still no agenda It's it's like the macintosh video where he starts off by saying it's a conspiracy and then spends the rest of the video explaining Exactly why the conspiracy is the point of the video macintosh's conclusion is the last Jedi is a film about men learning that they need to listen to women to improve themselves or something like that And it's important for gender equality. It's like yeah, that's the last line That sounds like a fucking agenda I don't know. Maybe I have the definition wrong. Does movie bob dare to disagree with jonathan macintosh? Yeah, I feel like those two would be They wouldn't want to step on each other's toes, you know I wouldn't want movie bob to step on my toes too. I'm fucking probably crushing An agenda and that's the final most insidious aspect to plot hole obsessed film culture's devaluation of thematic analysis The veneer of quasi-imperialism The devaluation Analysis what let's try it. Let's try a little time getting in service of an agenda And that's the final most insidious aspect to plot hole obsessed film culture's devaluation of thematic analysis The veneer of quasi-imperialism can be a very effective dude De-evaluation of thematic analysis the veneer of quasi-imperialism I I I see your I see your googly gawk and What the hell why did you have to say all of that way? I'm kind of a disbelief that that's he wrote that and he thought yeah, that's that's a really great way to get my point across So at the top of my browser my first my first bookmark is to a thesaurus and the reason that I use it is because If I I don't want to use the same word over and over It's not so that I can Go out of my way to try and sound intelligent, you know It's just so that oh, I've used this word a lot I want to just for the sake of people listening. Let's use you know a different word for it I want to use the exact quote in my next april fools video So I'm gonna have to listen to this just to just to make sure I get it And that's the final most insidious aspect of plot hole obsessed film culture's devaluation of thematic Dude, you know what? No, I'll I'll write it later It's gonna take me way too long to write this out because I fucking I'd have to keep replaying it because he speaks so fucking fast So I'll just write a a note of where it is Movie bar plot hole. What is this surfers? What does plot hole surfers mean do you think it's butthole surfers reference the band? Oh, okay. Yeah, there's a band called the old bank. I'm called butthole surfers and he's He's referencing them Because the movie is ass It's like he says that it's ridiculous for us to assume an agenda and he's constantly talking about like the agenda behind people doing The plot hole analysis You find that interesting. Yeah And that's the final most insidious aspect of plot hole obsessed film culture. That's the thing It's only a conspiracy when the bad guys do it. Yeah just Evaluation An authentic analysis the veneer of quasi empiricism can be a very effective tool for nefariously slipping one's own subjective It's funny because it's nefarious to take your own subjective viewpoint Dude, there's so much wrong with this He just argued that like people use plot holes to try to get their own nefarious subjective perspectives across the board I feel like he's heading towards Nazism. He's getting there. He's gonna be like here's the thing people People are trying to use evidence to support their claim People are trying to use what's in the movie to show Here's why I feel the things that I feel I but it but that's Like that is that's bad. It's you know, he says it's nefarious Like this is typical movie Bob is like if you have an opinion that differs from mine, it's nefarious Have you ever have you ever like read this guy's fucking crazy ass tweets and shit? Uh only in memes. That's about it. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, like this movie Bob's insane He's insane. That's the best way to put it. Yeah. He's he's nuts. Like I have nothing to say it Exactly like if we let this play again for just the the 15 seconds or whatever just take in these words. It's absolute And that's the final most insidious aspect of plot hole obsessed film culture's devaluation of thematic analysis The veneer of quasi empiricism can be a very effective tool for nefariously slipping one's own subjective Value one that you know might otherwise be challenged or get you called out as reactionary or worse into the discourse Nestling it covertly among the nitpicks until it sounds like just one more true But meaninglessly so factoid see he thinks the people are trying to throw they're like almost They're politics into the discussion or something like because it's he said yeah quasi empiricism I thought he said quasi imperialism because he was talking about the movie. I was like, wait, no No, he's talking about but that's the thing with movie Bob. You could believe that he brings up quasi imperialism So But yeah He's he's saying they argue the facts while trying to slip their own Subjective feelings underneath instead of being outward about it. That's not what I do. That's not what exactly what we do Exactly and That's the that's the party doesn't seem to get it would be like me going The last Jedi is all about how the government is trying to make frogs gay. That's how I open and then I do You'd be like, okay, that's ridiculous or or I go So I'm gonna do a scene by scene breakdown. Hey, this is this is interesting in the scene where he's milking the um the gay frog Uh, he's and then I go interesting how that's Gay frogs in this film. Huh wonder what that's about. Who knows and then I and I keep alluding to it until at the end I go weird I guess we have to conclude that this film is trying to convince us that the government is making frogs gay I think that's what he's saying that we do Like trying to get our weird Insane idea across through as many facts as we can find that would match it Maybe maybe you you think that I I wish one of us can make sense of this A gay frog's as nefarious as just saying the last Jedi is not very well written It's like does it have to be so nefarious that? You know, I just I just I don't don't really see where he's coming from I'd love to get an example. Wouldn't that be cool? Just an example of someone doing nobody's nose are nuts nefarious If he's like shows a guy's video where he says that uh, the last Jedi proves that Socialism will destroy planet earth And you know, we already have enough proof without the movie The idea to put well, this this is the irony man Movie Bob always pushes his politics through media Yeah, that's why every that's why when you know the escapist came out and said we're gonna try to be apolitical And then they said we're hiring movie Bob everyone was like You sure you sure you're you're sure you're apolitical Also, are you sure we need it there guys like a minute and a half. Hopefully he has an outro that's like not related Oh Oh gosh, look at this you guys are bond of akkad Look what he ties into the siege dumbest shit on youtube And so you can see dishonored wolf sargon of akkad I'm not sure whose video that is that's obviously mine. That's dave kellen. That's pewdiepie So obviously all of us are the dumbest shit on youtube And it's like Yeah Take a pass at someone who's far more popular and more influential than you will ever hope to be in your life, Bob I know that makes you upset. Yeah, let's check out how he's gonna represent Us very fairly and it picks until it sounds like just one more true, but meaninglessly so factoid Why don't they just use light speed kamikaze all the time if it's so effective can all the jedi astral project seems useful You're telling me that two women in leadership roles here and they aren't constantly fighting and undercutting one another as all women Are factually want to do a good lord. Did you guys get that? He started off pretty solid. Yeah, he started with two very fair questions And then it went into no women. Maybe maybe that's his point That's what he's saying our videos do where we we say fact fact and then we slip in a crazy idea With the facts, but again, Bob, this should be easy to prove, man. Just get a clip Get a clip. You don't need to literally create a straw man the sargon called zabon I like it because of how subtle it is. Yeah, I couldn't you couldn't tell could you And look at the look at the description. It's a trap to overthrow and undermine western civilization. It's like Yeah, I mean if sargon wrote that I'd imagine it was parody, but you know I'm sure he thinks that that's what we all think about this Yeah What work why would luke leave a map if he had no intention of wanting to be found? Uh, wait, I'm sorry. What was that there? I'm I'm I'm I'm diligently curious if he was gonna answer some of those He's inventing a straw man just for us. Thank you very much But that's the thing he has to invent a straw man, but he's like, but I'll hide it With uh, I'll hide it in the middle of a bunch of things that actually makes sense in fairness to that last point Talk about them. I don't believe there is any reference that luke was the one who left the map We assume he did because it's an r2d2, but from the writers at least this is what I found They they are saying the r2d2 has the the big part of the map because when he was fiddling around with the death star Or whenever else in the empire He downloaded the big portion of the map that the empire also have which is what kylo alludes to the film never actually says that Luke left the map behind Oh, that's a reasonable inference to make well. This is the thing I understand why people thought that because the film does not give you hardly any information about the fucking map So you're left to assume and then it's like luke wanted to die Why the hell did he leave a map behind and then you're like well technically he didn't because because everybody It's it's so out there. It's very strange like I said, uh, the reasoning from the writers are is that um R2 had the map and the smaller portion of the map was given to uh, what's his name that the old dude at the beginning And I'm not uh, we're supposed to assume that he was looking for the jedi temple Which is where everyone assumed that luke was going because apparently luke went searching for it and let people know that That's what he was doing But it's interesting. I'm glad this was in the film Yeah, I know and and and then you're like, but wait, why was he searching for the jedi temple if he just wanted to die? Do you just he just really wanted to die there? Was he sentimental like about because the theme is about the Either way, right? We just got a conversation out of that and you know, if you two didn't know about what I just said Then now you do and it's like, uh, there you go that can assist you in an argument next time you talk about it Or enlighten you in any way or maybe it didn't matter to you at all We didn't I didn't have to like tell you your feelings don't matter I've got I've got to use them. I gotta use it. I gotta take a piss again It's all right. I'll read some super chats. Um This is where the fun begins. Watch maulvis is obi one at the end The one from rebels is five minutes since an amazing scene in otherwise dull series I've actually seen that clip before I'd watched any of those shows just because I was interested in, um The idea someone was like they did this and I was like, oh wait, really? And I checked it out Uh, the real insult here is he's low-key comparing you guys to cinema sins A lot of people do. Um, in fact, there's a lot of comments online I've seen that say that I'm much worse than cinema sins because Cinema sins is like more obviously a joke while I try to convince people that I'm serious even though I'm joking or something like that So, you know, take that for what you will Question for wolf. Uh, I'm afraid he's gone. But uh Just um, I don't know cinema pm with that one. Um It was kill fuck barry toby. Why so jarred me? I don't know what he would say to that honestly Ryan johnson quote there has to be a plot before you can have plot holes I agree This movie bob, I can't understand it freaking word This I need oh this movie bob. I can't understand it freaking word. I I think I follow what you're saying there Why is movie bob such a faggot you can't see? That's rude Do you think movie bob realizes that if he ever again brings up a plot hole in a film People can just use this video against him and call him a reductionist. Yeah This is the problem for them Yeah, I can't remember if we said this live or not But we were saying like imagine being that little bird on their shoulder whenever they watch or enjoy anything And then they say well That didn't make sense and then you just go what do you mean? What do you mean? It didn't make sense. It doesn't matter Now you have to explain yourself. So you're fucked Pieces the last Jedi is a bad film. There you go Hey mohler big daddy rags and wolf. Hello back john Reese. That was john Reese's head that rags Say hello back piece of shit You guys say hi to future me while watching this tomorrow. Hello future unspan unspun one there you go Himalore do a lot of 3d design work Would you like a 3d printed drink coaster with your channel logo on it by any chance? Oh, I'm I'm gonna get some new art eventually. So, um, if ever you wanted to do that, I would say hold off for now You'll murder the very concept of culture not just culture itself. Uh, what did you actually say the concept of culture or just No idea It's trouble enough to follow. Anyway, the greatest movie is just good themes Which is why the greatest movie ever made is a video of daisy ridley reciting positive tweets for three hours Well, that's the thing man if all that matters is themes, then surely the best movie would just be shoving as many as you could into one movie Like just get get all the best google the best themes and then have a character read them out as you pretty much implied there Best movie ever problem is two fold. He's arguing that it's becoming common for people to use the term plot holes A shorthand for everything they didn't understand like no matter if it actually is one I agree with that That that would be a problem if it's happening, obviously Yeah, pizza rolls or italian gushers Uh, then further that people have begun settling for just listing these erroneous plot holes as conclusive proof that their opinion is fact Rather than providing research and legitimate evidence Again, if they're doing that that is bad But like if someone said I was doing that in in the last year I critique I would be frustrated except be like man, I spent a long time getting those references I'd appreciate it if they were debunked rather than just waved off as opinion, you know There's a difference between those those two types of people, but if bob is I mean bob is clearly coming after for some reason me wolf Sargon Dave cullen pewdiepie and whoever else like we're all in the same group apparently remember I'm the angry guy who made the five hour videos according to uh, patrick williams Hey guys, here's you mentioned it yesterday, but Detroit become human isn't actually that bad I actually has good will building and death has real branching consequences for the three main characters I've not played it I don't know frags has all smud Which which game? Detroit become human No, no, I I play games Oh Again, I don't think about it. So no, David cage plays you that's how it works He moves. Uh, what is he what he's saying since y'all don't know the source matter and it's not explained in full detail Y'all deem it as a plot hole If you require extra sources to be able to understand the plot in a film you may be in trouble Yes Everybody pan pancakes or waffles um Waffles I'm gonna go with waffles None against pancakes, but I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go to waffles I'm gonna say I'm cool with both of them. I'll just I'll be safe and go with waffles these two chose it It must be for a good reason You ever had chicken and pancakes I think so I've had chicken and waffles though. When are you and walf gonna dig evolved as critics? Obviously that's next to all the on the agenda What's each of your favorite prequels and why do you think it's so much easier to like the prequels despite how awful they are I think it's because you can see a good story behind the bad execution But for me, it's a revenge of the sith. I just think that there's a lot more going on in it It stands the test of scrutiny better than the other two Uh, and I generally enjoy the film more, but um as as for why it's easier to like them I imagine a lot of people would disagree with that statement for me. It's that uh Yeah, I actually think I would I agree with the reasoning that um, I think I can see a good idea behind bad execution That's probably how I put it. What about you guys? Um, I can see that I can yeah They got progressed progressively better. Um Is very low bar, but they did get better Wait for what no prequels a prequels Uh I guess they got better. Yeah, well, but like I said, that's a pretty low bar Uh, which is the favorite for you two. I'm assuming smuds is revenge of the sith if he said they progressively got better Probably revenge of the sith Yeah fair enough, um Uh 10 fps our memories of minecraft on a notebook. I would respond to the feeling straw man We recognize the value of feelings, but they are subordinate to logical thought from our perspective We are concerned about them taking the lead in discussion Um, correct Yeah, which uh, the because that's something that I feel something therefore this government policy should be enacted I feel something therefore It is morally righteous for me to punch you on the street And when it comes to art analysis or whatever some people are like, why do you why are you saying the objective? Assessments are better than subjective ones and it's like it's not about being better It's literally just drawing the line so that we can actually have a concise and clear conversation. That's all Don't have to say anything. If anything. It's unifying Yeah, we can both agree on something that it's much easier to grant something that's objective And that kind of brings us together into a conversation Yeah, and plus if you want to use just objective observations, you don't have to do the art form You can do the genre you can do the medium you can do a certain aspect and you can still use the same technique So it's more useful. I think Uh bob marked infinity wars released in 2017. How yeah, he keeps keeps going for the whole video So I guess he just he must have missed that one. Uh, my question is is bob's position on tyla parry feels or logic based It's one of the things I remember bob saying from before I stopped watching him I don't i'm assuming you're saying he likes tyla parry and the Boy doesn't I don't know um I wouldn't expect consistency from movie bob. Yeah, no, I I certainly wouldn't either. There's none in this video so I doubt there's gonna be as a Is tall wick I haven't seen weird salad this impenetrable since my attempt to read eagle hegel Hegel eagle um You're an old soul more the wise before what beyond your years. Yes. I am a an ancient wise 24 year old wizard Uh the bombers in the last gen I were designed by an sjw. Thus the white male designed y-wing wasn't used I see there's the agenda guy slipping in That's because the y-wing is the y chromosome damn So given the tons of talk about plot and story I'm currently jotting down a script aimed at explaining the difference between the two in action I think I'll loosely reference fail bob during it More power to you because I don't think he's helping make the conversation clearer in this video at all Uh, we need to bring movie bob on for a live debate Smaller versus moving on dawn of quasi empiricism. I seriously doubt he would ever consider me worth his time A use your feelings b. I felt angry a at a kid's movie with women in power garbage human Oh, right. So the person a says use your feelings person b says, okay I felt angry and the person a says at a kid's movie with women in power. You're a garbage human Like, yeah, that that is actually a another contradiction They're saying like you should value your emotional reaction and then when you provide it to them they get frustrated with you Well, that's why he called them nefarious earlier on is like if you're a subjective You know the subjective stuff is far more important But if it's not the right subjective opinion Then fuck you Black panther is putting chemicals in the water to make the rhino milk gay The rhino milk turns you gay Except it ain't milk Do you think ryan johnson's Thinks he's good at sex because he submits a woman's expectations by not giving her an orgasm that would You know, you could use that as an analogy for the last Jedi in some ways Like I think the one I used on one of the podcasts we had was like a birthday with no gifts Like everyone comes in they're like, here's all the boxes unwrapped and you're like, woo-hoo And there's nothing in any of them and they're like you didn't expect that Nothing I'm like, thanks. Muller is hereby named irony man Very well, but yes, thank you all very much for the donations We've only got a minute and a half left. I'm so and most of it's probably just going to be him Doing bad impressions of saga on apparently so I hope so another as all women are factually want to do at work Why would Luke leave a map if he had no intention of wanting to be found? Uh, wait, I'm sorry What was that third one again? How has no one just bumped into a condo after all these centuries? If they have all that vibranium, why not make black panther uniforms for everyone in the kingdom to be on the safe side? Why is killmonger mad about racism in america like that's still a real thing in 2018? What's he going to do next take a knee how did charlotte fall off the mountain into a river Only to be phoned by fishermen from a different mountain at a higher elevation These are actually like some of these are quotes from my video Yeah, really? Yeah, because I was about to say I was about to say some of these like or they make sense as questions other than the obvious strawmen I don't think I said why is he acting like racism is a real thing in america. I don't think I ever said that Yeah, I don't I don't know I definitely said it's weird that he fell off a waterfall and ended up at the bottom of a mountain at a higher elevation It was the most retarded fucking sequence of events ever, but Apparently that's irrelevant compared to the emotional journey. That's probably what he's gonna argue. I guess Uh, what was that about real in 2018 again? Ah, see okay So he's he's he's saying that I reference valid plot holes, but then I throw in that racism isn't a thing To try and get my political perspective across but I never say that in my black panther video Yeah, I I don't know anyone who's who's said that racism doesn't exist I mean other than the sense that no, maybe structurally I'm not mad But this is like quintan levels of misrepresenting my work, but he's careful enough to not mention me by name This is the the most bizarre version of poisoning the well with uh with a straw man. I've ever seen I mean, yeah, this is one of the most classic examples of a straw man You could possibly find he literally like took me and then put stuff in me That's not actually me and then beat it down as being like a piece of shit This is like, yeah, that's You didn't you didn't count to me mate. You counted some other thing called mule or something It's it's let me cherry pick the things that I it's not it's like cherry picking plus because you're cherry picking a thing that you Invented and this is the thing if this was happening if people were like man, it doesn't make sense to jackson the door Also heterosexual relationships are just stupid. No one should be anything but gay But uh, yeah, the other plot point that's an issue in titanic. You should be like, what the fuck was that? What did you just say about heterosexual but like show us that why can't you show us someone doing that? heterodormative I don't understand why it's so difficult. Why do you have to create straw men? Mr. Movie Bob, is it because these people are boogie men and they don't actually exist I'm not saying that I'm saying is that possible You should use you should use boogie person as a gender neutral term I'll just use schlume. It'll refer to any person See how that works. It's a dastardly rhetorical sleight of hand and yeah, yeah, they're dastardly They're baby That's some heavy irony right there The theme of this video is irony. How about that? They pull sleight of hand movie bob. What did you just do? Uh, what was that about real in 2018 again, see how that works It's a dastardly rhetorical sleight of hand and unscrupulous culture critics are foisting it on impressionable viewers by the That's what you would do right now Bob wouldn't know what a scruple was if it fit him in his massive ass You want a culture critic go see a macintosh again? That's these the official culture critic Thousands thanks to the ubiquity of plot hole criticism Maybe if there were less okay, let me tell you about supply and demand asshole If there weren't so many fucking plot holes everywhere, you wouldn't have so many people talking about the plot holes Supply and demand that sounds like capitalist thinking you That's a horrible Nazi I love capitalism Uh, what was that about real in 2018 again, see how that works It's a dastardly rhetorical sleight of hand and unscrupulous culture critics are foisting it on impressionable viewers by the thousands Thanks to the ubiquity of plot hole criticism None of this of course is to say that there's a wrong way to watch movies or that you yourself are but I Enjoyed a nitpick video here or there, but I would agree to broaden in your media Whoops. Oh, whoops. Um, actually um I love it how he I love the straw man cherry picking and then right after that The thing he says nobody is saying so what actually did say Oh It's the memo there None of this of course is to say that there's a wrong way to watch movies or that you yourself are part of the problem If you enjoyed a nitpick you just said we're part of like a major problem that we we Leading people by the wayside with our own political ideas and you just disagreed with patrick williams who this video is in support of Legitimately says that there is a wrong way to watch movies That that's an ironic thing Yeah, and enjoy criticism from others Bob this movie is a fucking mess and it's inconsistent And you're just awful at making videos, which is why After all of this time that you've spent you get such a little viewership and you're like a meme Because you're awful as someone just mentioned as well It's like he's saying I'm not saying there's anything wrong But he said like the worst on youtube and what was the what was the search term? Dumbest shit on youtube Nothing wrong with it. It's just the dumbest shit on youtube Dastardly rhetorical sleight of hand and unscrupulous culture critics are foisting it on impressionable viewers by the thousands Thanks to the ubiquity of plot hole criticism None of this of course is to say that there's a wrong way to watch movies Or that you yourself are part of the problem if you've enjoyed a nitpick video here or there But I would agree that broadening your media diet beyond that is always a good idea and rediscovering the concept of theme and emotional connection What a movie may As if I think even cinemasins might actually reference emotional connection here and there. I don't know. I haven't seen all the videos He's I think movie bob just hates anyone who's more successful and popular than he is Just hates everyone that doesn't That's all actually contemplating the ubiquity of plot hole criticism. I I criticize a lot of it criticize the plot hole There's a lot of it, but then again, there's a lot of plot holes to criticize So maybe a films were written better and there weren't plot holes everywhere and that wouldn't be an issue But maybe maybe you should be encouraging good writing as a movie critic bob Maybe that's what you should be doing. He's concluded that this is logical Plot hole related inconsistencies versus the assessment of theme and character, which to me is just like who what Why have you separated them like that? As if you can't logically break down a character's progression or something like that Feel rather than whether or not the machinery by which it did so played fair or not Is an overdue experience for a lot of us in the words of alfred hitchcock Appining on the tendency of characters in scarier suspenseful movies Do not simply go to the cops right away like they do in real life They don't go to the police because it's boring Yeah, what that's what because hitchcock said it that means it's genius Hitchcock said a lot of things about inconsistencies and stories. So he's definitely not the right guy to quote And let's be honest man Like if all this preventing your story from falling apart is the characters deciding they don't want to go to the police Maybe you didn't have a great story. Yeah, you might want to work on your story Yeah, I hate this idea that if you cite like someone goes two plus two equals five Hemingway It's like that doesn't mean it was smart Hitchcock is a human being. He's not a god I'm bob and that's the big picture. Oh one more thing on monday september 24th 2018. Oh, thank christ. We're done Thank god It's funny about rags. You said earlier Your movie is is bad or something like that in reference to this video. I was gonna correct you and I was like I do that all the I do that all the time where I call videos movies Well, but the amount of time we spent on this one. I think it's safe to say it was basically a movie Yeah, it's like I I'm watching stuff on a screen and it's just solved Um That was bad. That was something what it was. Let's let's go with conclusions. I'll I'll start um bob has is like one of the most Agenda driven youtubers there is like he's clearly motivated by Politics and he hates anybody with a different political perspective and he will assume that when they address media That they must be Criticizing it because it didn't support their political position when I think in reality It's like the reverse like he he's actually seeing Their politics before their points if there's someone he disagrees with Like uh, if it's someone he does agree with like Lindsay Ellis as he referenced or Patrick williams or just right, for example He'll just listen to their points Even if they don't make any he'll just be like assume them for him because their politics are correct While the people who aren't like sargon automatically Inject them into uh, whatever they like sargon's been talking about predator recently Just just how the society works or whatever And like I could imagine movie bob just being like that's not an assessment of predator and its culture or how it would work Assuming stuff we've seen in the movies. That is literally you saying that socialism is bad That's all it is. That's all it ever is because you're all you're just an agenda. Um, and then the actual video here Wow He could really use a redraft because the flow is so confusing in terms of what he's actually trying to say and I I guess this just how it works for him and jesus christ the editing is is adhd levels of like Are you keeping up? I hope you are it takes so much time to do that shit, too Yeah And then it takes so much time to get all those images and he says them so fast that the amount of images He has to go through you just must be staggering He speaks so fucking fast for no other reason than I can discern other than he's a part of The escapist who has zero punctuation who speaks fast as well Is that it? Like I like zero punctuation because he's more funny. I like yeah uh Man Yeah, that's that's my assessment. You guys go ahead Charbled mess of unnecessary complicated contradictory language uh, I mean It's just a train wreck from beginning to end. He he flip flops. He's inconsistent He clearly poisons the well and assumes the worst intentions of people He does the thing that he says is bad to do and then he says good now But it's it's a mess man. Like that was something else. That's a piece of work Well, I like how I was introduced to these guys first of it was just right back in the day Then it was patrick Back to bob and with just right. He had an actual philosophy or he had some understanding Of not only a cinema but storytelling so he's coming from a theoretical or at least a conceptual view Of how to do things even though he's obviously a gender driven Then you have patrick who is sort of kind of half and half. I think he has some classical understanding of of cinema But he's blinded by his bias and his own Emotions with of course all the the contradictions along the way with bob It's it's like patrick up to ten, you know, it's just all the way. How far can we take a obsession with emotion and and fix and Just talk as fast as possible get as many adjectives as you can With with nouns and predicates and just slam them together and I mean, he's not He's not a word salad. He's just like a drag racer salad. He's just how He's a glossy empiricism. He must be he knows what he's talking about It's like say that's the the classic example of calling someone Uh was an intellectual a quasi intellectual Uh, a pseudo-intellectual. That's a it's a pretty classic insult Back in the day and saying that oh, he doesn't really know what he's talking about, but he sounds smart This is exactly what movie bob is he thinks he's smart and he constructs this narrative of words that I'm having even a problem listening to a little uncomprehending so There you go And like I could speak for wolf. He's probably would have been dead at this point blood coming out of his ears I was gonna say that we're near at four hours. So there's no way we'll be able to do another video. Um, that's enough for me Yeah, I think we should do this another time. Um, maybe get less nauseating people They're old Um, but yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun. I'll say that um, you've got And uh, yeah, it's a plot analysis. I do it once a week How about you rags? You may as well throw you throw your hat in the ring. Why should they subscribe to you? You should subscribe to me because Oh, fucking shit You should subscribe to me Because if you don't the terrorists win there you go see puts his agenda and all of his immediate analysis stuff Yeah rags, man I was gonna say they probably all subscribe to you anyway because like you're like essentially on every one of these podcasts so I'm I'm fairly regular And yeah, I will until the end now just be spamming the fucking the second channel. It's called moola I just make all these things public on there so many links in the chat. I hope you guys can actually follow Either way, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you both for for sticking through for so long That is we've been requested that video a lot And I think it's because people both want to see movie bob Watched and this particular one He's a he's a very special man. I'll um Just get through. I think there's like four super chats Uh, oh two. Sorry Um, movie bob went on a jag when he first worked for escapist about how tyler perry was basically reinforcing negative stereotypes of black people I'm sure you'll find a way to reconcile that with everything else. He said movie bob is um He's got a spaghetti brain with how everything connects. I think Uh, I just realized I can give you money. I used to do people's fan fictions. What are you doing to movies and people's strange opinions on opinions? I used to do people's fan fictions. What are you doing? I don't I don't quite follow that but um Either way, thank you all for the very kind donations. Thank you very much rags and smart boy You've been a fantastic guest and we will of course have you back But the thing is we're doing this once per week and I've already got a few other Potential guests even next week is already we're hopefully having the cinemas in the sins guy by the way He's gonna come on and this will be after he's released his video. I'm hoping We'll have a kind discourse, but I think we might actually have our very first Debate of sorts. We're gonna be talking about black panther. I think the guy who made the video on me Um, oh, yeah, that was a really shit video Yeah, well, he's making a new one and apparently he's gonna be coming on next time Or hopefully next week once we figure out a time and uh, we can talk about black panther because That will be interesting, but the We're gonna cut some guts. No, that's a good thing though. We can even like we can make it no bad blood. Oh, yeah It's good, but oof. He took some shots at you too. He did but I'm willing to Let bygones be bygones. I'm sure we we must have taken a few shots at him in our in our review I know wolf did It was a response um But yeah, uh, so that'll be next week and obviously you can catch these on on the second channel But other than that, I think that's it. Uh, thanks again for coming folks And that's goodbye