 Welcome to Toffy TV, this video is sponsored by One Football. One Football's app makes it easy to keep up to date with transfer news, scores and stats all in one place. To download the One Football app, simply click on the description, the link in the description below. We were talking sponsorships last week when we had to cut it off, but a couple of people were kind of saying something that I'd kind of referred to, which was surely for us to get better deals, you have to do better on a domestic front, I suppose, in terms of the league place and get into the Europa League. I think we had to cut that short a little bit last week in terms of the explanation, so we were talking about brands and you come up with some different brands that potentially we would have to target, but one of them is Amazon and I know that we've had a question in regard on that. Amazon don't get great press in this country for tax reasons and be for how they treat the staff. A lot of people have actually commented on that. Now, I think you could probably find an issue with most companies if you wanted to break stuff down like that, but what would you say to if it was someone like Amazon, because obviously they're a global brand, they're getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. You've already got football games this season, it's definitely branching out. If that goes well the games that they've got this year, they've got games in December, they've got a set of 50s, one round of 50s. Now, if that goes okay, that's a massive marker for them to just go and grab all kinds of rights for that. But what would, as an Evertonian, without your business hat on first and foremost, as an Evertonian, what do you feel in terms of the negative response to Amazon or the negative publicity it sometimes gets? Look, I think it's understandable, isn't it? Because brands like Amazon and Facebook, for tax evasion, avoidance or avoidance, whichever is the clever one. Whatever's reported. Particularly Amazon, the way they treat the workers in the great big sheds they've got and they haven't had good press. My point about looking for the next sponsor after Sport Pacer is it needs to be strategic and it needs to be benefit to both parties. So if I'm Amazon and I don't have a great reputation and I'm looking to partner with someone and I look around football clubs that's got a really good reputation, a really good community spirit and values and a strong charitable element. Gee whiz, looks like a fairly good partnership to me and clearly it would need to be strategic and they say something and we say something and it comes together. So one of the reasons I'm quite uncomfortable with the Sport Pacer TV ad is not because we've got Sport Pacer on our shirts because that's it. That's what they're paying to confirm, as John said, they're paying 9 million quid a year for that. Right? And we believe USM pay 6 million quid a year to the sponsor team last year. So that's kind of where the 75 million came from over five years where Elstone mentioned, right? So we've got 9 million quid Sport Pacer on our shirt. When I see a TV ad with people wearing Everton shirts promoting gambling, that's taking that partnership to another level to me where I think there's greater benefit for Sport Pacer than there is for the Everton brand. And in some ways the Everton brand is being devalued by Sport Pacer. Potentially. You could make that case. Now I'm looking for a new brand, a new sponsor potentially, that has a broad reach, that has a global reach and a global presence that is going to make a difference to them. Their association with Everton is going to have a positive effect on their brand as well. And that's why I came up with Amazon. I know you were on the news. But it's a very real challenge and people's concerns are absolutely spot on. Wouldn't that same argument then be applied to Everton who was supposed to be a community-based club? But that's the point, isn't it? Yeah, but wouldn't we then be supporting Amazon? And Amazon's going to change the way they treat their... All agreements, right? A mutual, aren't they? And I think, Rodgers, only straight away, your answer was, you could visualise why. If Amazon have sufficient self-awareness to think we have a public relations issue the way treatments of employees and the like, how can we seek to redress that? Then if they wanted to do that through football and they wanted to do that through the sponsorship of a football club, then you would go to the one who has the best perceived people relationships, which is presumably head and shoulders above all others, Everton, because of what Everton community do. Unless you wish that, you think that would be the best. But if they then approached us, I'd like to think our board, not just the trustees and the like of them in the community would go, how does that fit in with our brand values? How are you going to change so you don't compromise our value of our brand, which is whether we like it or not, the people's club? And what are you going to do, Amazon? And that's the way I think you were alluding to. You'd end up with joint statements which says, we're going to do this now. Maybe, Evan, and the community would go and help them with employee relations. Who knows? And they get that merging of almost like sympathy and those things and how they work. And we get a load of money, hopefully. And we get global exposure. To me, it's less of a money, it's more about the exposure that it would come. And it's that global exposure. And if Amazon is an organisation, have bad street cred in the UK because of employee, everything on the clock, whatever it might be, then they have that in other countries as well. Of course, you know. And that's how you then help to spread the effort and brand by saying, well, Evan, I'm working with Amazon in wherever it is, somewhere in the States, somewhere in Asia, somewhere in the mainland Europe, somewhere in North Africa, wherever it might be. And you start, and we talk about this on our podcast many times, haven't we, how you get an alignment in brand values. And what you're calling out here is perhaps a brand, because you should give some reference to the guy, that's the question, because it's a really good one. That how it doesn't have to be binary. They've got bad cred, let's not use them. Let's try and get their cred changed through exposure to us. And we are going to have a terrific, which we do have, charity and the like, which clearly takes money from the football club. It's helping fund its good works and stuff. Then we should lever that as well the other way around. There is no reason why the sponsor and the partner, as well as sponsoring Everton, couldn't make donations to Everton in the community. Absolutely right. They couldn't, somebody like a more global brand with the football club could allow us to get the whole Everton in the community mantra out there, outside of the confines of the city region. And we do do stuff outside the region, because we do stuff in Africa, don't we? We do, yeah. Everton in the community, I mean. Yep, it fits for Africa. You know, we have people on site in Africa doing stuff. Yeah. And it just means that brilliant work that Everton in the community does could be done to more people. Exactly. It was David Embleton who also says, it is a good one, he says, if Everton had the likes of Amazon as a share sponsor, how much do you think it would split the fan base with regards to the treatments of workers and the lack of corporate tax payments? So that was like this. I mean, David, what I would say is how many people are using Amazon at this very moment inside? Yeah. I mean, I've... Christmas, you mean? Yeah, exactly. I've gone and bought four things off them today alone just for Christmas presents. Nothing big for me. Nothing big for me. I've got yours as well. That's yours. And that's where you're getting your battery from. That's it. And that's the thing, isn't it? Is that we can... I think it's difficult, it's very, very difficult because we can minimise things sometimes or we can choose to look at one thing and ignore something else. It's human nature, isn't it? We can bang on about them paying no tax, but I guarantee you that at the match tonight, probably 50% of the attendants will have used Amazon. You know, and that's the kind of thing that you're working with. It's a good opportunity you're spot on. You're absolutely spot on. It's a great opportunity for them to clean up their image a little bit and it's a great opportunity for everyone, I think you said before. It's... The money is never, ever secondary because that's what keeps us going. But in this case, the money is almost secondary, if you know what I mean, because it's exposure and that's what we're after. Yeah, yeah, but money and aggregate in this league isn't secondary. No, of course. But get an increased income indirectly because of the exposure that you get from a worldwide brand. You wouldn't do it at all unless the net outcome is going to be you're earning lots more income. You just don't have to have it purely on pay for by the company that sticks its name on it. Let's move on to some questions. Yeah, go for it. Right, if we were to sign Gomez permanently, this is from Martin Watson, sorry, if we were to sign Gomez permanently, where would that leave us in regards to financial fair play and how do we keep on increasing the revenue in the current climate? Climate to be able to increase spending. So now it's difficult without you knowing all the figures but say Gomez is 50 million for argument's sake. But I think we've covered the areas where we need to grow the revenues. That's important. You can answer the detail on Gomez. The financial fair play thing. Like anything, it depends how much it costs, what period of time we can advertise it over, besides a long-term contract. But I think we're okay for the next year. It's more the potential impact on the wage bill. The wage bill is the one. It's not the actual fees. The fees are nothing. Yeah, the wage bill. We're okay, mate. I don't think, certainly, which perhaps is where the question is coming from, are we limited in being able to get in because of that, and the answer is no. I think we just have to be careful, don't we, and it's like anything we've got to keep an eye on. I know that we... But don't forget it's a three-year cycle. I know, I know. I think we alluded to it perhaps off an hour ago. But we were big when we put Marcel Brand, when I was 11, from out of nowhere, because of Rooney. So I suppose if we were to get rid of, if we were to get rid of Morgan Sneddlin and we were to get rid of Eumar Niastas, and if we were to get 25 million for Tom Davis, that would all be profit. I'm not saying we should, but player trading when he's a homegrown asset, there's money to be made in that. And if Tom's not going to get a game, he'll go down the South Coast and play for Brighton, maybe. He needs a loan, probably. A whole gate needs a loan. That'll think Mason's going on. Bruce Jones of his pace again, 60 million for Gomez on a five-year deal. Will they be financially prudent from a business asset point of view with the rise of player trading in recent years? His thoughts are it's fine, given 60 million in five years, will be the equivalent of 20 million now. So if we bought him now, this is kind of what Marco Silva said in his press conference, David. He costs us 60, 70 million now over his contract. You know, it's more like 20 million. I don't know how he was equating it. Well, there's a huge amount of inflation there, isn't it? And again, we were talking offline before, and I think I did a tweet it earlier on. Richarlison's alleged value has gone up over 30 million euros in the last three months. And when I was on Merseyside on Friday, that was part of the conversation, really. If you can get Gomez for 40, whatever it is, 40, 50 million in January, but he continues to play the way he's been playing right through to the end of the season, what would he cost in the summer? That's the point. There's perhaps saying, spend 50 now and you save 20 for what you would pay if you paid him once. I think it's a strategic decision because they must have made it already. We need a playmaker, and he is that playmaker in a way that Guilfe isn't. And so we need him, and we need a goal scorer, and we've got a good goalkeeper, but we need a centre forward, and we need that playmaker position. And that's strategic, and if his fitness record's good, then absolutely 50 million. That's what we've been made already. Listen, that thing began with no matter. The fact that Silver's talking about it if you thought about last summer, they started talking when things were quite advanced. You've seen yet he mean it. I'm telling him every day, we're going to build something together. Behind the scenes, Barcelona will have their first option on Richard Ellison in two years' time. Probably 200 years. If they want it, that's great because that means that Ellison will be like Harry Kane in the 90s, and we'll get 50, 60, 70 goals a season. Rock on. Paul Goldster's for you. On the stadium, would there be more cost-effective to go with bigger attendance, even with the chance of not filling it, rather than the smaller attendance and saying it's guaranteed filling? With the stadium, keep it simple. As far as I'm concerned, we can't increase the capacity. So we should go with the maximum capacity and increase it once it's built. Absolutely. I think the problems around the heritage and around the speciality of the design means that it's not extendable. So in my opinion, we should go as big as we possibly can from day one. Paul's made a compelling case. We don't need to refer to that. Absolutely, you can go and read it on his blog if you want. But essentially, 5,000 corporate punters get you as much as 55,000 regular punters at our existing levels of season ticket holder matches. OK. And if we can't quite sell 60,000 seats for Stoke at Home, then every single game and we've said this, we should give away 1,878 tickets to local charities and local causes for every single game and they should be in the old school, the boys' pen, the Bill Kenright, Memorial boys' pen, three seats, no problem as a memorial to his one law of presence in there. So to me, go as high as you can and bust a gut to fill it and provided you can get good money and offer good spectator experience in the corporate area and afford to charge, you know, 250 to 500 quid a game, absolutely go for it. In the green room with Dutch. Yeah, in broad terms. The tripling of hospitality I think is understated. I think we should go for more than that. I think we'll find ourselves if we get anywhere near where we hope to get, then we won't have enough if we settle for tripling. Because what people forget, sorry just to put it in very quickly, what people forget with corporates is they don't even have to be Everton fans, they just take it for a Premier League game on the banks of the Massey business. And I think there needs to be, when we get there, a lot more segmentation on pricing. I wouldn't necessarily be a huge advocate of theatre prizes where the guy in front of me is spending more money than I am, but certainly there's a halfway house, isn't there between corporate, as you just called it, and more than just a seat, and the things in between. The answer to the question really is go and look at the Esq's blog where he's done it to death a thousand ways, a thousand different lenses to look at, and all the financial numbers stack up for having the large 61878 stadium. OK, there you go. Daniel Concepcion, if that's your full name, Concepcion, it's an amazing name. It's an amazing name. Roger, are Everton getting better at utilising the influence of foreign players, for example Towson, etc. Everton, take it, you've got to take it, because you can't talk to me. Or are we not getting all we can out of our foreign internationals? How do we change it? Because the overt sees fanbases bring in money and it will be more important when we build the entity. It's a great question. I think we do it the wrong way round. I think brilliant question from Daniel Concepcion. Daniel, great point. What we do well is they come out and they come on the bus tour and Bernard's on the bus tour Prince Rupert's tower and it's all great and the bird is blue and that's all fantastic and they buy into everything. But I would like to see Everton buy into their heritage as well. I'd like to see Everton make more of the fact that we've got a Colombian centre back and that we've got a Portuguese midfielder and a couple of Brazilians in the front three and an Icelandic guy who plays in number 10 and takes a mean free kick apparently. Maybe I'll get one tonight. Bernard, Icelandic. No, no, take him off free kicks. Go on look at Bernard's free kicks. I don't understand why he doesn't take them for us. Is taking these foreign players and for Everton not just to make the foreign players come in and embrace Everton football clubs and Liverpool city region and all that good stuff because they need to feel identified of course they do. But let us, let's get Colombian flags out let's get Brazilian flags out and let's celebrate the diversity and the range of players that we've got. Will there be any valuing? I don't know how this would work but would there be any value in say Everton going to Colombia at yet he mean it and going to putting on it two day football school with Everton stuff and things like that. I think that might be a few steps ahead but why don't Everton have an Everton Spanish account? Why don't they tweet in Spanish? Why don't we tweet in Chinese? Why don't we tweet in French? Every single German club. Take all the players languages that we've got. They have English language. Every club did do you? Every league are the same and in Italy. So why are we doing that? We are a team of firsts. Let's get doing all of this? Any different nationalities or languages we've got representative now? We've got Portuguese with Brazilian, French. We've got Miner and Spanish Spanish with Portuguese mae'n ysbannos eisiau, mae'n gofio'r cyfrwyr hefyd. Mae'n llwyddiad, mae'n llwyddiad. Mae'n gweld yn ogylched o'r cyfrwyr. Mae'r arweinyddol yn gyfranyaeth ymlaen. Mae'n ddigon ar gyfer cyfrwyr. Mae'n olygu i'r cyfrwyr hefyd. Mae'n olygu i'r cyfrwyr hefyd. Mae'n olygu i'r cyfrwyr hefyd. Gyll-Creen, mae'n gwir ychydig gan ysbyg o'r cyfrwyr hefyd. Mae'n gwir ychydig ychydig gyfrwyr hefyd ychydig. your potential reputation impact with partnerships. You could look at any sector, banking, energy, social media, strobe technology to name a few and you'll find plenty of reasons not to be associated with the dodgy tax practice, fact-cat energy companies ripping off them out on the street etc. For me it's about being brave enough to identify the right brand can't do what you was saying. The fit based on things like our family focus, youth development, sustainability. am ychydag y syniad efo'i gwybod hwnnw, fel Chyfmon, o hyd yn gyflaeniaethol yn ysgolol iawn a gwybod y byd yn yr industry, gyda'r cyfrifiadau ar gyfer y cyfrifiadau a'r newid ymgyrch a'r cyfrifiadau addysgol iawn. Mae gennym ni'n gwybod efo'i cyfrifiadau i gael gyrfa'u cyfrifiadau cyllid yn ysgolol iawn. Felly mae o'n cael ei gael. Felly mae gennym ni'n cefnogi ar y dyfodol iawn ac yn olygu'r ysgolol iawn deunydd ymell require i'r overdon cymryd ac nid yn ei prifonol y bydd Cymru nad oes ei gweld yn greu y lawr. Mae'r ffantasol ar gyd. Mae'r gweithio sydd yn cymryd.eni'r peth y byddwn ni wedi'u'n gweithio eu cyfrifonol? Nod. Beth wyo? Rydi ni'n rhaid i'n gwirio? Ie. Rydyn ni'n ffrasilwch gynnydd i'n gwybod. Edych chi'n gwylltio 5 o 20 o gweithi'r gweithio. Felly, mae'n gwneud i'n gweithio y brifysgwyr cywbeth i ddweudio gyfrannu gyda'r ystyried iawn oherwydd yr unrhyw gwaith ddweudio a'n gweithio'r ddiwedd yn gwneud bod ym mwyaf ar y bysiau a dwi'n gweithio'n gyfrannu gyda'r ddweudio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Yn gweithio'r cyfrannu i ddweudio'r ddweudio, rwy'n ei bod yn ei ddweudio'n gweithio'n gweithio a ond, ond y bydd y spŷl yng Nghaerllach i ddweud os ymwneud yn andio, ond ydych yn ei ffocws. Cŷ o unfrop. Dwi'n meddwl yn byw i ddweud. Er rightly, yn meddwl yn meddwl, ond wedyn byddwn yn byw i ddweud. Mae'n meddwl o'r adeil a gwaith yn ddweud. A'n gwneud o'r adeil wedi gogweddau, yn meddwl yn meddwl, ac mae eto ddweud i ddwyneud. Mae'n meddwl. Mae', Mark Zobl, mae'n dweud i'n mwy o dechau ein ddweud. i ni'n gweithio'r Llywodraeth yn ei ddweud y cwmhyslifyd i'r ystyried y Llywodraeth i'r cyfaint? Felly, mae'n gwneud eu gwaith o'i gwladau, fel Gwyluniaeth, Luchwm, a'r gyfaint iawn o'r gweithio ymlaen i'ch ganddoedd y mae'r pwysig sy'n gweithio'r cyfaint iawn a'i gweithio'r cyfaint iawn i'r cyfaint iawn i mi ar gyfer eu Llywodraeth i'r Llywodraeth i'r cyfaint i'r ysgol Roedd y dyfu'r clywb wedi'u gwneud o'r rai cyflwyno'n gweithio yma, a oedden nhw'n gwneud euchydig, oherwydd y dyfodol i ymweld, dwi'n golygu o'r ddweud o'r thrym ymweld? Dyma'r ffordd o'r ffordd yw, oedden ni'n ymweld ymweld ei siaradau, a'r ddweud o'r ddweud ymweld yw, nid yw, nid yw. I think that the Europa League, unless we go straight into it from winning the FA Cup or finishing fifth, is a poison chalice. I think that if we're going to be in the Europa League, we need to be competitive and competitive means getting out of the group at the very least and getting into the knockout stages. Going in, you know, at the middle of July and qualifying when you're only putting out half a team against, you know, we only just scraped past had you split to get into the groups, you know, difficult. So I'd like, first and foremost, it's winning a trophy is what we need and that trophies a cup, it's a domestic cup which would come with European qualification and that is where I'd like to see the energies focused. OK. One of the questions is about improving commercial performance without being successful on the pitch. Yeah. And Roger said you can't. Yeah. I think you can. I think our commercial performance can be significantly improved. Success meaning winning things. Yeah. So we'll differ on that one. Europa League itself, and I think sort of what you were saying and I would then agree is you've got to take it seriously. Clearly managers try to pick teams to get through the next hurdle, but you've got to take it seriously. And again, I'm with Roger. It's much more difficult if you come in as like seventh finisher in the Premier League and you do all those qualifying things. But even then, I think if you do it properly and treat that as a proper preseason, and that's how you're doing preseason, rather than as a what team can we cobble together? Yeah. I'd like going away in European games. And I think the fans like it and it's part of spreading the brand and stuff like that. I'd struggle to think many evident fans are going to say I'd rather not be in Europe next year. I think the way you approach this is as much as important as anything. Of course, the big prize for winning it is Champions League. Exactly. My thing with it is I don't get that there's no point being in the Europa League. So we'll try to get in the Champions League. I mean, more than last five. You will make it in the Europa League. No, we have to be competitive in the Europa League is what I said. If it goes wrong for you, it can then knock you back a season. But what I'm saying is that I wasn't saying it to you. I'm saying that's what some people say. We don't want to play Thursday Sunday. We'll play Wednesday Saturday. It's how you, it's your mindset. That is a mindset thing. It's squad death. That makes the difference when you're in Europe. Okay, now let me ask you this then. So if we were in the Europa League this season with the squad death we have, would we cope better than we did on the run-up? Yes, emphatically. Have we got a better coach than we had? Emphatically, yes. So straight away would we have struggled to get out of the group? No. No, because that group, with Leigh on the side, that group was easy. Yeah, yeah. He wasn't committed to it. He did what he did when he was at Southampton. Exactly. And when he went out every qualifier in Southampton, he was gutted, we got through. He wasn't interested in it. He wasn't interested in it because the Premier League to him was the other side of the Carabao Cup he gave away. He literally made eight changes when we were flying and it knocked us, we won one in the next 10. After that, we're not at Peter Surow. That's right. So, I know what you're saying and you're absolutely right if you're going to go in and start messing around with the team. But what Cooman did wrong was the pre-season games preceding it. Everybody should have been getting games and he didn't. He messed with people and they might, oh, you're in tonight. And it's like, why wasn't the game after game after game after game ready for that fit? We had about 20, 30 players. There's no excuse. No, no, no. Barely. That's wrecked them for this season but it was amazingly finished. They had 12 or 13 players. They had 12 or 13 players and David Moyes were 13 players. Don't forget the last season was the first time he didn't get up the group stages, wasn't it? In the ones we've been in. I don't think we've ever gone out the Europa League previously without the groups. Moyes always took us into the after. We had penalties with Fiorentina. That was a quarter. Was Kef a knockout or was that a group game? Kef was a two game, two legs. Beat them at home, he beat us away. And that year everyone thought we were going to win it because we were flying. It was just that we didn't put them to bed at home and we should have run it. So, you know, under Moyes, we always do alright. You know, we got beat by Fiorentina but in terms of the way we played, we had some great trips with Moyes as well. So, I think if you've got the squad, I think this squad will cope quite comfortably and I'll say win it. But I think it cope quite comfortably because the better football is you have as well. You're sort of not being able to play this. As a direct route, i.e. through your lead position, and I don't mean, you know, one of some other teams won the FA Cup or anything, but finishing fifth, I guess. So, finishing fifth or winning a cup, a direct route into your upper league, we should be us, you know, intended to do that every single season. Of course. Until we're in the Champions League. If it's seventh, then it's the end of the year. We'll take it. We hope to have it unbelievable under 23, shall we? So, if you can't take three of those players and put them in at that level. Let's be honest. If Cumin would have had us ready when we played Rouge and Beroch, we'd have been then seven-nil at Godduson. Anyone else would have batted them that night at Godduson, and yet we sat there going, I'm a bit worried there because we won with the deflection from Bains, when really then kids weren't good enough. At 23, should have been able to put them to bed here. And you know, if you build from that point, then it becomes easier, but you're right. It's a difficult one, but I think we have to be in it because I would argue all day long it's easier to win the Europa League than it is to finish fourth in the top four at the moment. Until you get a level of player that is so good. You can play Newcastle with 10 of them behind the ball and beat them five-nil. We're not at that level, but Europa League, who knows? We're going to win, aren't we? But I understand all you can say is, though, Roger. The other bit from Mark, because he did, he's a little dumb on that side. When it comes to market and sponsorships and all the rest, isn't there always so far behind? Why? Are the people in charge not young enough or forward thinking enough? The way PSG run their PR is what I would look through, I mentioned this before. Great social media, inside their access on things like Snapchat. Much more accessibility and promotion to their channels in foreign languages, what you two said. The modern day global brand that we promote ourselves, like we are a small little club from the north of England and nothing more, maybe should be striving to be one of Wales football's elite. We're definitely not there yet on the pitch, but that's got to be the ultimate goal of Masheri's project. I don't think we need to answer that. It's what we've said, but coming back to the very, very first question, is it because people aren't young enough or we haven't got skills? My contention is because we haven't really got the clear, strategic direction of someone pressing that accelerator button and demanding more and more and more and more. Say we have, right? Say we have, but the issue could be that, you mentioned it before, technological, the technology, why aren't we embracing that. Say we just haven't thought of having someone, I don't think, I might be wrong, but judging by what you say and what you hear, I don't think everything treat technology the way it should be treated. We don't make the most of it, whether that's because we lack the skills within or whether it's because we lack the ambition and the desire and the confidence to use it more creatively, I don't know. I do. I think it's that. I think we need to talk next time about the Chief Engagement Officer because that's what it's all about at the end of the day. I don't think it's an age thing, by the way, to answer the question. You don't. I think it's the things Roger's been saying about, ambition and vision and those sorts of things and confidence. Last one from Cumbri and Sophie. Oh, we know this guy. As much as he admires you too. That's what he said. As much as I admires John and Roger. I can't agree with them. This is on the sponsorship next week. Where does he live? Get him in here. Cumbri. He's a nice lab mark, actually. I think you don't only have to look at the successful period we had under any C sponsorship deal. It's simple for me if we're to aspire to major brands in terms of shared sponsorship. We have to start winning things to become relevant. We need to be successful on the pitch. This is what Roger's just said, actually. I'm afraid that is something we've not been in a position to aspire to. Once we start winning cups and regularly challenging for the top four and playing in Europe, we will be in a far better position in terms of attracting major brands. Roger's just kind of said this. You've slightly disagreed. If you replayed what Mark said, you're basically saying, join us together with what I've said. This league is about money. That shower's wage bill is 50% higher than that. But their wage bill is perhaps two thirds of what Man United is. So you need money to put assets on the field. The days of you're in and out with kids and a whole host of the Class of 1992 come through all at the same time. You just talked about the under-23 is supposed to be great. One of them ends up in our first team and one of them makes a name for himself so you cannot wait to win things, to have a perfect storm, to have something happen like happened to Leicester and they've been and gone haven't they? We've just talked about shirt sponsors. This is amongst the lowest. They were clearly in the middle of a contract when they won the goddamn league and had a good run in the Champions League so they couldn't exploit it. We have the right people doing the right targeting in the right way. It treats our commercial income to make what we've got now look poor. Clearly it will get even better when you start winning things. But the reality for me we won't get a huge amount of extra-commercial income because we won the league cup. We won't get a huge amount of extra-commercial income because we won the FA cup. We won't even get a huge amount of extra-commercial income just because we're in the Champions League. It's when you're in it every single year and that itself brings income. So, yes, it's laudable to say when we win things that commercial deals will get better. Well, they will. But unless the commercial deals get better we won't win things. Because it's all about... There's a chicken and egg. It's all about money at the end of the day. But you've got to talk the talk almost before you walk the walk. Absolutely. And that's when I talk about caution or I said cowardice. That's what I mean. Because we are still... I thought it was great when we lit the birds up. It was funny, but okay. We move on now. Have we got a national team? I thought it was brilliant. That was actually only because Anthony made the final four or the final three of the X-Factor. I thought it was brilliant. I thought it was very good. It's good and it's good and leave it. But it's small, tiny. It matters to us that the bird is blue and it's on there cresting. Can we have it back? Fine. But what matters is ambition. And you demonstrate that ambition by going out and signing a five-year sponsorship deal with NEC. I said it was the best sponsor we ever had. He's watched your last one. I'll help you. Whether it's Twitter or Facebook or Amazon or Siemens or the biggest wind farm company in the world whoever it might be. Let's go and get a bloody big one. A significant name, not necessarily the monetary value. May take us to 15-20 million. It's not going to get us to 35-40 in one fell swoop. But let's make that as a statement so that then we can charge more for the jolly old slave of angry birds. And then we can have these global partners around the pitch. Proper little hoardings for each of them. And you go from there but you have to speculate to accumulate. In business you have to speculate to accumulate. You have to really back your judgment. And Fahad Meshiri is absolutely welcome and he's made some really significant changes. But what I want to see is that ambition that's what's driven him to make the success of his business. I want to see that ambition burning through the board so that they're actually really, really, really sweating to really, really hit their targets and deliver. And not keep telling us about houses that we've bought for a quarter of a million quid. Which in itself is great and wonderful. But it's not a multi-billion business. We need to compete with huge global brands here. And we have to show ambition to get anywhere near them. And I suppose we've seen just very quickly on the plane side we've seen that this season. We brought in half a dozen players, half a dozen players who are much higher level. You get what you pay for, Baz. You get what you pay for. And all of a sudden we look like a much better side. You get what you pay for and what we've paid for was Marcel Brands. Final point. BAU, business as usual, is about transfer windows trying to bring players in and so on. Eventually, if you have a number of transfer windows where you've spent £50, £75 million on single players and don't forget that shower across the way, they slapped the money down while Suarez was going out the door. Catenia was going out the door. So player trading is vital and it's part of what you do. The biggest opportunity for this football club to demonstrate all the things Roger just said is probably more. And I'm telling you, when the football club announces the capacity next summer, if it's that long away, if it's not what people hope it to be, and we know there's people who want it to be low, but if it's not Roger's soon to be famous, 61, 8, 7, 8, then the football club should explain to us why not and I think they will. And if it smacks in any way, shape or form of because we won't fill it, then they fail. Big style. They fail. Period. And that flippant build it and they will come. That's the sort of risk taken ambition that we're talking about. Because I think the risk is relatively moderate, but it makes a statement. And when the thing looks drop dead gorgeous, we'll all be pleased. But if we get a drop dead gorgeous stadium of 52,000, we've missed a trick. Of course we have. We've missed a trick. Can't say any more than that. It's a bit of half empty. For me. Listen, it's been really good. It's been cool. Excellent. And we'll do this again so we'll get anything we've said, you know, the lads have said. Get Mark down. Get it down. Mark, you're quite welcome to get in your car and drive down. We'll pay for the train for you. John will bring it in. We'll do it. We'll just get your ear on. We'll get your ear on Skype. Can you do that? We can do a live thing. Of course we could. We maybe do that one day. Get everyone. We'll set it up and we'll do a Skype call and we can Skype Q&A. We can do a hang-off in our pitons. But we'll record it at a sensible time. We'll listen. I'm here all day to Tim. It's him having to travel 400 miles to be here. We do Skype. That's commitment. It's a match day. You'll be here. It's not a match day. You'll have to do Skype. Big thanks to John. Big thanks to Roger again for coming in. We've discussed all sorts there having me. Football, money, the club. If you're watching, they told you what to do. I told you what to do. That easy. Subscribe as well. See you soon. It's always that easy. Cheers guys.