 Hello everybody, I am Matthew Miller. I am the Fedora project leader and this is the Fedora council video meeting we try to do these about once a month and We have meetings more often than that usually there on IRC That's internet relay chat for those of you who are not old-school internet hackers It is actually where a lot of Fedora work gets done but we want to also do some of these high bandwidth things and also kind of make what we do more visible to the rest of the world in the community, so we do some video calls And so we have Fedora council people here And we also usually invite somebody to come and talk about something that they're doing in the project or Something that's going on there Think our main agenda then this week is Ifa Maloney is going to be presenting. Did I get your name right there? Is that yeah, okay awesome Presenting on Red Hat's CPE team. That's community platform engineering And then we'll see what other business we have at the end I think maybe we want to talk a little bit about Fedora and coronavirus So that that'll be that'll be an exciting conversation, but we're going to give Ifa the bulk of the time here Those of us who are familiar with Fedora probably know Red Hat puts a big investment in Fedora But there is actually no Fedora team at Red Hat I think pretty much all of us on this call who work for Red Hat work in different groups across the company and I think that's kind of a neat way for a company to invest in an open source project rather than just kind of having a dedicated This is the few people who worry about that and everybody else that you know goes off and does business things We try and have the whole company engaged in parts. That makes sense but the CPE team is actually dedicated towards Fedora and CentOS community needs for infrastructure And Ifa is going to tell us a little bit about how that works and we can ask her questions and we'll You may know her if you've been following mailing lists from weekly announcements about what's going on on the CPE team But we wanted to bring some of that. Like I said to video to make it more visible to people So with that introduction ifo, would you like to go ahead? Thanks, Matthew And thank you for inviting me into this month's call I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you folks again I have met some of you in Brno in January was able to meet you there And it's great to come back and continue to talk to you about how the CPE team is moving the new way of work a new way of working By still retaining some of our community roots at heart and our community values Um on how we are trying to manage that. I have a couple of notes in an untitled draft. I didn't do a presentation I wasn't sure if it was Presentation slides worthy or not Um, but I am happy to go through my notes with you here today And if you have any questions and feedback for me If you have any ideas of how how we can maybe Build some of the gaps if there is any or if you've any third lady lads. It's going well. We'd love to hear Good or bad. It's all useful So i'm just going to share my screen very quickly And the untitled document is literally the door counsel CPE talking points That sounds great Okay, so can you let me know when you can see my screen? We've got it excellent So the first thing that I've talked to you today about is the work request file policy So we are trialling this policy. It is not it is not On the commandant's list. It is something that we are having a look at and seeing and finding what way works best Some of it will work really good. Some of it won't and we'll have to drop and pivot and readdress But at the moment, um, I have taken some of your feedback from the last time on board I'm trying to figure out a way to get our backlog prioritization more visible It was suggested to me in within the team that your good cells use the tiger board for your project So I've basically copied no point in reinventing the wheel So there I will share this document out with you as well It is in a google doc and I will transcribe it to a hack and defile as well if that's easier for you all to access and both I have Then playing around with this kanban board, which I think I should have it here And here we can see some of our projects in our backlog One of the cells we're looking at and ones that are in progress And the numbers are irrelevant. It is literally just the number in which I put them on the board It is not reflective of their actual backlog priority What is reflective of that is where they're positioned on the board So in progress we have sent us stream the fast replacement and the data center move There are three projects that are in progress Sent us streamers at the moment at the forefront of the team's focus With the fast replacements second to it But not lesser Just hard to get two cards between We also have the data center move, which is also equally as important But it's it's not taking up as many resources as the first two We are also looking at an inbox upgrade for our q2 planning, which I'll speak on in a moment But that directly feeds into the sent us stream And to lesser scent of the faster placement as well In our backlog we have identified the git forage and disk it merged to be the most priority items at the moment And followed by the dnf back in metrics And we have fedora badges in there too We have a couple of other backlog items as well We are the team would like to address the configure configuration management system We have flat pack fedora's Epic brief as well or requirements document knocking around in confluence. I'd like to bring that out a little bit more We have A new tier replacement that we would like to address always gets a fedora. I think has been worked on I just have to update us And the team are also looking at sent us ci and ci cd changelog They're towards the end. They are actually in motion, but they're kind of They're just things that the team are touching base in And actively trying to resolve without it being on fire The idea of this yeah any questions so far I was going to ask what you may be already answering which is kind of what is the size of a card on here like some of these things Seem like there might be be like a one-off project like any Replacement I can kind of see how that would go as basically an epic as a project Whereas sento a stream is basically an entire linux distribution Uh Can you talk to about the granularity here a little bit and how that's decided how that works We actually haven't discussed sizing. Yes. The team are doing sizing We are really in the TV. That's fair. Sorry. I wasn't trying to make a difficult question No, that's okay. I'll answer as best I can and as honestly as And honestly the um the team is very much in the the teething phase of becoming more agile And we do have an agile practitioner on the team that's helping us helping us progress through it We are very much at the beginning phases of it. So everybody is aware of what it is But we're now in the oh, this is what it feels like kind of mode of it and the within these three projects the team have Within these three projects the team are breaking down the tasks in sizes But the actual projects themselves are not translated into any points or sizes yet. They're just projects um This I clicked on so I want to have to change tack a little bit here, but I'll go back The idea of this board here is that when you click on any project that you're interested in it's a view only board But if you see a project that you are interested in or have put forward for work I want to see You know some details about it. You have the project vision You have the platform that it relates to the estimated completion date The tech lead of the project and the product owner and some contact information to reach out as well I would like to add more detail to it because this is really a rough draft of This is what I'm thinking. What do you think? What do I need more of? What do you not want to see here? And and I will note down that t-shirt sizes or points or something to identify the sizing per project is Is needed and that was actually discussed myself and Sarah were just talking about it earlier today She had suggested to break down the sent off streaming phases And I said yes, good idea. Let me see what the feedback is on us So do you think that is something that you would prefer to see on the board? Yeah, I mean it makes it easier for me to understand what's going on when things are, you know, roughly The same size or at least you can kind of see the size of them Especially when there's something so huge as sent to a stream and makes makes it kind of hard to understand It feels like that's going to just sit there at the top of in progress forever Which probably isn't very very useful. So something that can you know, you can see the progression through here Okay, thank you. That's a good point to feed back. I appreciate that The other question I have which I guess kind of turned into a comment as I was thinking about it is I was wondering why this wasn't on the teams dot fedora project dot org taiga But I guess if you have sent to us and fedora stuff together having it in a in a separate place Makes sense If you want to use the fedora one percent of us stuff, I think you're completely welcome We won't we won't mind, but if this is a good place for it That's good too as long as we can make sure we've got good links to it somewhere so people can find it I don't mind either way. I'm more than happy to Happy paste it as much as I will allow me over across to that And I would I just wanted that visual for yourself to understand this is my line of thought and to see if that matches What you would prefer to see Yeah, this is facing backlog. This is super helpful Okay, so yes for the taiga board maybe change the location And yeah, or it makes sure it makes sure it's easier for people to find I don't really care about the url that much I just want to make sure that when people are looking for it It's it, you know, it doesn't feel like it's often somebody's personal project page somewhere that they can't I think the cp item is an entry in fedora doc so we can link it from there. I can help with that. Yeah, okay Yep, sounds good. Okay, and you you can import into the fedora instance from those instances as well I know I had the iot stuff migrated over to save you doing more work copying postings Great, but sounds good. Thank you. Appreciate. I appreciate the help. I'll take you up. I'm at any time Um excellent So great, that's good to hear that. I'm on the right track for visibility purposes with the teams projects I appreciate that I've taken some notes that you've given me and and some Instructive criticism So I'll just jump back to the document today So that covers the work request trial and it is The larger projects that that come into us. We are still looking at how to get the middle pieces We're we're not really any clear on it, but maybe we might just run with a big one and a little one And we'll see where the the little the middle pieces fall Um, I've spoke to you already about the work channels. The project proposals would be super helpful in the epic brief And you can mail it to me. It would be great if you could Bubble that up through I know Marie sent me on one for badges, which is is perfect. Maybe just like Take somebody to filter it up to me. So I have a point of contact. That's consistent I'm more than happy to be that point of contact for you as well so If I think that these documents are probably only accessible to people at red hat Um, and possibly the idea of epic brief is not familiar to people either Um, can you can you talk about a little bit about what an epic brief is and then I can talk a little bit about how we As fedora leadership can get these things to you in the form that you like Yeah, absolutely happy to do that So I might start then with the proposal process and then talk to you about the epic brief that you get to that So the idea behind this is just to get uh one form of communication one one point of contact from incoming work requests to the team so that they're not coming from Six other different places that there's like one source of truth And it's it's not to block out any any ideas or projects that people have It's to centralize them so that we're not losing track of them and things aren't being halved on We would like to do something one thing and do it well as opposed to Five things and half ask them sorry if I'm swearing on But um, this is what we've kind of come up with as a team and we're seeing how it works And as I said earlier, it's all trial basis. We are not putting this in stone We can pivot when we feel we need to and when it's obviously apparent we have to So the proposal would be super helpful if it was filled in an epic brief, which I'll come back to You fill out your details and you send it to me. We then take the proposal and we review That's ambitious, but we will review as we receive and then come back to the requester with some more information We will solicit requirements from them and we will discuss with the tech leads and the cpe management team Have we people to put on this project? What is the technical implementation? What what approach should we take for it? And then based on a scoping from within the team, we would come back to the the experimental cluster with We think we can do if that matches what they would like if that meets their requirements and then start moving the project similarly if something comes in And it's just worth calling out that if we don't have the capacity for We would like to communicate that out equally as well But if we we don't have the people what we don't have the resources We have a reason for you as to why the project can't be done at this time or ever but we would we would like to Take as much work and be as accountable as we possibly can do without turning people out All right The epic brief I mean so just keep going now while I'm on a roll Go ahead. Yeah If you would like to request work You follow that process and you complete this epic brief You need to have a name you need to pop your name on it the date It was submitted and the dependency dates of your project. So if you know that there's It will take the the the fast replacement as an example just if it came out of Nowhere and there's a dependency date on that of november, I believe this year. It has to be done before then So you would have the dependency dates of november 2020 there the summary overview would be that it is a replacement of the current solution That's el in november 2020 because of x y and z What platform does this relate to the door? If it relates to both just take both Is this something new is it an enhancement or replacement? So brand new item an enhancement Not really but it would be a replacement to the current system Is there a workaround in place in the case of us? No, there's not Once that deadline comes We need to have something there and what does it relate to is it's an initiative? This is something new infrastructure are relenged It would be great if you know if we know why it's important to you Why it benefits everybody for doing it? And then what happens if if unfortunately we can't do that And if you have some objectives and goals that you would like your your product proposal to reach Document them And then this may be the most important is that why what does success look like to you? So if you were requesting the replacement to the account system like How would you know if it's done? How would you get that and go? Yep? That's exactly what I want So it's important to really be very very clear as to what's important Why you want something what what it means to you and what does it look like when it's done to you? That's all you need to do for the epic brief stage it comes to me I set some time together in the calendar and we go through the requirements of the project to make it successful We examine what the dependencies are if there's internal dependencies if there's external ones Um, you need to clarify the internal the external whether it's internal to red hat and external as in community Or if it's internal to fedora an external that it could have Have some bearing on sent us infrastructure And a couple of risks if that is our epic brief in a nutshell Okay, um, I'm gonna I try to pull back the red hat curtain a little bit here and it kind of explain how this connects into what happens in Um, the structure for how things get done at red hat and how this relates to fedora as a project um In general in rel development we have things called subsystem teams and those are Responsible for something like you know the compiler team the tools team or networking or virtualization and there's kind of big areas of of the distribution for rel and those each of those teams has something called a product owner and so the product owner is basically What ifa is doing for the cpe team is kind of the team member who's responsible for getting these requirements in and those requirements come from A product manager on the product management side of the organization what red hat calls the business unit and That's where these features and epic briefs come from from a rel platform side obviously Things are a little different in in fedora for one thing. There is no product management For another this isn't quite like a subsystem team and a lot of the things here are infrastructure related rather than being Fedora like distro features that are being developed so Our friend brian exelbeard becks our former fcake is actually now in a role where he is Serving for community projects as kind of the stand-in for a product manager whatever I'm not sure what the actual title is But basically he is kind of in that role So brian is the owner of these feature request these epic briefs from from that perspective so This template is an internal document and I don't know if we If we necessarily need to have that exact thing in in the community I expect that the way that will work is these Things that are epic briefs will come from the fedora council probably mostly from objective leads and and Then we'll work with Fedora council and with you know me marie and people in fedora leadership to make sure that things that red hat can do Are communicated to red hat in in in this format here And I think that will work I don't know it's helpful. I think for people who are working on those things to be aware of what the epic brief Format looks like and what's being asked for but I don't think community members are going to necessarily need to fill out these Exact this exact paperwork in this way because we'll kind of have Some red headers to help work and get that into the right shape Does that make sense ifa to you and does that make sense to everyone else as well? It certainly makes sense to me. Um I like I'm not I don't mind what way you would like to bubble up your priorities and your Your projects to us too that I'm more than happy to work with you and be aware of your own structure This is what we're trying to put around our team to just make it a little bit more easier for us to get through the work Um, but I'm more than happy to if if you prefer a different format Just loop me in so I know where to look for these things and if you could then Use the epic brief for me for the the big ticket items that you really want to push forward That would be really helpful for me because it's in a really clear document that I can Push through to the team and to the cp management and through bex then as well to The father in redhead or elsewhere that would need some extra extra work. It's just putting Documentation in place as a fallback. We have the data. This is what we need I think this makes sense to me. Does anybody else have a comment on this? I mean, we've got a lot of people on the all here And it seems right to me like we would Do the translation of those kinds of requests and fill out the paperwork. I think that's fine I'm just do we have someone from outside of red hat? How does this look to you? I'm not outside of red hat, but I was wondering if we could maybe use taiga for for this epic brief submissions Instead of using a template in a document and then email it to to a one person basically Maybe if if the taiga instance was open for anybody to submit submit ideas That might work better and be more scalable Justin flurry said in the comments that Even if I'm not someone filling out the epics I follow this in the context is helpful And gives a plus one to thinking on feedback curation from the community So one thing we actually have our own fedora council taiga board that ben Runs and I think As i'm thinking about it right now and this is open to change I think maybe the best thing for us to do is to run those community input ideas through there and progress them through that Ben has dropped a link in the chat here. I'm not sure if that will show up in the video Trying to make sure and get that Transcripts it's on the fedora council project on teams for our project org Think if we bubble up our community things through there and then we can what the ones Somewhere on there. There's a phase basically forget this into the cpe template form and we can make sure that that happens I think that will kind of give the cpe team the format they're looking for and kind of you follow the same process as Other internal red hat teams kind of give that interface Yeah, I just put a comment in that if if you're using your taiga board to to capture the Community items that come into you as counsel to action I'm more than happy to have that board bookmarked and keep an eye on it Ping me if you have something gone in there and we can I can work with the council member Or bex or whoever you'd like to direct that request to to transpose that item those items into epic briefs Then for us to follow the formal process that we're putting around our team We're not trying to put that process around you as the community But we would like to follow it for our team for our own clarity and i'm that middle person there that i'm happy to To take the outside and bring it in and then bring the inside back out Awesome. Uh, thank you, ifa. I feel like there should be more appreciation in the world for people who do that being the middle person work because It takes so much effort Oh my god It takes so much effort to do that and it is such a relief when you're working on something To have somebody else say I got this I can I can help me connect those things So, uh, thank you for being one of those those people. That's amazing Happy to help but benefits is all so why not Um, I don't have too much more notes to to get through but if you want to just skim to them super quick Our next quarterly planning for cpe team is 18th of march I forgot the other ones, but I actually think it's on this document here for the q3 q4 dates um, we are looking at the following stakeholders to get some input on Our next on the products that we're next looking toward So as you pointed out Matthew Bex is going is our liaison point person for both business and community at the moment um The cpe management team are also named as stakeholders just so that they can contribute to Capacity of the teams. They know their own staff. They know what they're working on what they want to upskill to and it's valuable for me to know that we have Center CI Project coming up and somebody from the fedora community that works on the cpe team has really expressed a strong want to learn about that So from a management perspective, it's helpful to know that would be a great person to jump on here That's an upskilling opportunity. That's somebody to learn some other skills. So We feel that it's important for them to have that say both for them and their own staff Sarah our agile practitioner is also helping me as well She's great to structure and schedule the the team's capacity for the actual work in progress stuff that The products come in that we can break them down into more granular tasks. She's going to be helping me on my type one too So that would be good and our team leads for technical implementation so they can start thinking about any projects that come in how we are actually going to move that technically speaking And I had put down a note that to make sure to ask for feedback on additional support and fit in the gaps if If we do have any but you've been pretty proactive on that too So I appreciate it. Any other things that we need to consider Yeah, actually, can we talk about the sustaining team and the workflow for that kind of a little bit? Because I don't think that got covered at all. And I think that'll be actually pretty important to a lot of the people listening who Um, we do have a lot of these big epic ideas But also a lot of work in fedora is kind of ongoing smaller things smaller requests Bailey things details um, and I think that's probably actually Uh, not that what we just talked about isn't incredibly important But I think the majority of people's interface with the cpe team will be through that So let's make sure we get that covered. Absolutely. I just wanted to give you some context on this is what we're what we do during these During these quarterly planning, but fair in mind our next one next week is only Jumping away ahead. Okay Go on we'll come back to that. It's a good thing. It's recorded so we can all go back and go. Oh, yeah I saw about there. Um the The quarterly planning is also going to be recorded as well. So I should check. I don't see it being an issue as to why we can't spend it outside as well for more visibility on it But certainly what is discussed and decided upon will be communicated out I have a couple of Details for the column move triple a and then I'll get the sustaining team Column move dates are being finalized with the team today and I'll publish another note on hack and D It'll be linked in the weekly mail Triple eight last let me interrupt and explain that if people haven't been following red hat is moving data centers from phoenix, arizona to I I don't know where somewhere else somewhere in raleigh Washington, okay. Yeah, I'm also rally rdu2 and uh, yeah, so This is very painful for us and we're going to see the pain coming up with some reduced capacity in Fedora infrastructure for a while this move happens But the good news is that we will have More capacity more space better hardware This will be a big improvement. So good and the other thing to note is You know red hat provides that space to fedora and when red hat said we don't have that space anymore It's not like we can say no So, um, this is not on our schedule. This is not something we wanted to do but um We are making the best of it and cp team is making the best of it What what's the main window for the move may I ask? Yeah, sure. We'll start when when's when's the main interruptions going to be essential So we are starting a shipment our shipment out from April 13th. I think that's the monday You shouldn't see too much massive interruption there. Um, the community will have some downtime from Probably from the 6th of April to in around the first remains There's probably going to be a three week window where communities will uh, will Either be offline or will be elsewhere Um, I have a two hour call today with the team to discuss that and see where what we're going to do So that's why I haven't linked anything here to that yet You should have a more a published schedule by the end of the week, but we are very mindful of The door 32 release schedule and we've purposely been structuring the hardware moves to To make sure that there's enough time for consumption and for releases Inner and the the april mark where you'd like to release door 32 so Yep and points out in the comments here that uh, this is actually on the fedora 33 schedule under the infrastructure Um category all a lot of the dates are already planned out here So it's in the schedule map. So if you go to the normal fedora 33 schedule page, you can find these dates here The main ones are communicates from around the 6th of april to the first in may is going to be the problematic and then We're going to be swapping to a slimline version of fedora from may 20th to july 1st So there'll be a six week window where we will have very limited services running through fedora infrastructure We hope that it will be enough time for downloads and And the release timing for fedora 32 between March in those and not mark sorry When are you releasing it? Is it the 28th of april? 21st Somewhere between those two 21st is the preferred target Um, so we've we've had a look and we've allowed about a three to four Four week optimistic three week kind of minimum window um to get the door 32 out and consumed And then we will reduce the service to allow for the larger hardware shipment. That shipment is going from Northern virginia to washington the first bit of the moves that relates to communicates Now that would be the fedora cloud racks and they are being shipped to or do you And and that will be april so april and june are your Do once that you'll find a little bit of less service but then thank you for posting the link in the chat and I said I will have A detailed schedule published on hack and d once it's been finalised with the team And so we're comfortable that we can meet those targets and change them But it's worth pointing out as well that Things happen so dates may change for both the good and the bad and please bear with us while we're Decisive taking this move and let's all say a prayer that it will never happen again But chance to be a finding the permanent they need eternal data center for fedora. Yeah Yeah, we just built our own so the AAA the the fast update is It's still the same good team Can I center up real quick? I want one thing I wanted to point out For the data center move is that you know the attempt is to try and make it as invisible as possible to fedora users So, you know, it'll be mostly affected effecting contributors and just things being slower there But we want to try and make make sure our users still have a good experience In concrete terms fewer builders is going to be a big thing so we'll Probably not to schedule a mastery build while the builders are not available for example But there will be still build capacity and To some degree That is my understanding and also for all architectures peter right if I I Think so There has to there has to be all architectures because otherwise the builders just block them way It's an all or nothing thing So yeah, the people planning this are Infrastructure team members were all familiar with from Long time fedora so confident they've got it I figured as much which is explicitly why I did not ask the question around all architectures Now there will there will be some limitations, but That the core pieces we're going to retain them There was a note sent out a long time ago from Kevin Fensi Who's The main team lead on this work with me and Steven smidgen about what you can expect from the minimum viable fedora Solution that we're going to put in place And what also you cannot expect I'm trying to dig it out of the archive somewhere I will find it eventually and send it on to you, but it's been referenced a dozen times as well Yeah, I remember reading that some time ago I remember reading that some time ago and not being particularly concerned About anything in particular there. So from my point of view it all seems fine And having done data center moves myself before I know how stressful this is Everything's fine And I found the link theater. So I have it popped into the chat for you as well But that's what we're aiming for at Kevin has been actually looking through that and getting a proof of concept together So that's what we're addressing this evening And once we have once we have that nailed down once we have those dates confirmed I was pushed that out into the open put it on a billboard if I can just so people are fully aware So that when that time does come they know We're not all caught in the headlights And the AAA replacement is is going fine There's the team are still working through the two factor authentication with the three IPA API And the fast jason API this week our work is in the public in github the link is there And I will share this document to you. So you have access to all those links And for the main event the sustaining team So come on verna is leading that team and With them have identified the main repos that they are maintaining Here it is Again D. I love this thing So this is what they are looking at and actively going to maintain and this will address the The small fixes upgrades low-level stuff that doesn't require a big epic brief in a process But still needs attention and we would like anything like that to just hit the tickets In in the usual way. We're not changing that process And we are sharing this out just so people are aware that if you're filing issues and bugs and fixes And these are what we're going to be looking at and addressing anything outside of this list may get missed I will happily share this on with you Does that make things a bit clearer to you as The council and the wider community as to how we're addressing that kind of work Yes, and this is the existing um fedora infrastructure and pager Um At relinch cues on pager for making these requests is that There's a lot of trackers here the team follows all of the different trackers or is there one place we should focus things They're trying to and they're still working through it as well The team has really only come together in the last two months And they've spent a great deal of that time identifying the places where people do find issues and bugs and Things and they've made a tracker for the trackers But we are looking to centralize that and make that more clearer And they have also been working on how they would actually like to work again another document, but And the links are there So they've they've decided to have a mission statement And what their day-to-day would look like and this is hugely in Thanks to our agile practitioner who's coaching us in in working in a more in a better way They have organized themselves into two teams One team is going to be purely dealing with the fires that crop up the bugs the unplanned work things that really need a quick fix And team b are going to look at more longer term Underneath the hood that nobody ever sees but you still need it to get the engine running and clearing up the technical debt That the nice stuff that nobody ever sees but still there So Fun team and hard hard work plumbing team that the exactly I hope people get to rotate between teams at Yes, they do. Yeah, that was um that was identified as as a need both for both for their own mental health and um And it's a great off-skilling opportunity Like if you find yourself either joining this team or have been in it in a while Now there's a great opportunity to to learn new things and Meet more people and work with people a little bit more directly than we may have been working in the past So are the Kanban and scrum boards for these teams? Internal or are they public boards? I believe they're public. Um tna the the fire fighting team Have irc meetings and it's listed here. They have a backlog somewhere I'll have to I'll have to tag that in Um, but they review the tickets that are in their board and they assign tickets And they they get working basically and the team be workflow They are still working through it They are going to be a little bit more formal I think they all join the irc meetings and kind of develop what looks like An immediate tna attention and something that can probably go into a little bit of a longer A longer sprint or queue that team be will pick up Yeah Good example is pingos Proof of concepts that would fall into the team be side of things because this is a an idea that they're looking at for longer term benefit I don't know how many people are all familiar with agile terminology by now, but um Kanban basically is a System like these taiga boards we've been looking at where kind of cards Come in on the one side and progress across them and kind of a continuous flow Whereas scrum is the thing you may have heard of with sprints and kind of a I'll kind of focus on start and end ceremonies and kind of The team takes work at the beginning and then from the point of view of stakeholders That's that's the granularity Is is the size of the team scrum and what the team does internally there's their own business So it'll be interesting to see that working on an open source project because You know, it's it tends to be something that works really well on a kind of a tightly knit team working all very closely on the To see in the same same time zone same same work together. So I'm Kind of interested in how This team develops that because it's kind of neat to see agile processes develop as they work in the real world Yeah, and there's every chance that we could end up doing some sort of a weird hybrid called scrumban Yes, right It's totally open. We're we're just going to see what works. See what sticks Yeah, that's cool. And I think that's going to be good for the team and really good for getting a lot of Productivity and reduce burnout and so in that team. So I'm glad to see this Uh, the that so that is the the sustaining teamwork flow and I'll take two seconds of your time and give you back 15 For important council stuff that I'm so sorry. I've spoken to for 40 minutes at the gift forage. Thank you Oh, yes, let's ask about the gift forage. I don't think we need answers here But what are the this obviously was a pretty big discussion on the fedora develop us with a lot of passion We tried to capture that as much as we could and give our community feedback to you What are the next steps there? What are the timelines and who is making what decisions? Um, so as you can see I have four sentences Um, and one of them is thanking you for the contribution. Yes, there was there was loads of of user stories That came in and and requirements and thank you so much for your time in in going through them and pulling them together In in user story format for me that that has been hugely helpful As we stand now, so we send out the requests for requirements Out in externally We've got them and now it's time to bring them back in-house and review the software as a solution offering And also couldn't make to develop out pager a bit more. So we're now in the comparison site stage that is going to be done with the cp management team and the And the tech leads and also I would imagine vex as the liaison person between community and business Um, we're examining what service meets the majority if all of the requirements And then based on scalability and future growth and business continuity both as a community business and as an actual business business Um, to see what makes the needs and what is The best choice for everybody to move toward We are going to be addressing that in the and the quarterly planning next week Okay, and so that's user stories we publish next week or And and so when can we expect outcome from that? Probably at the end of the month. So what we are we next week? Our quarterly planning is the 18th. So I would imagine we would have an output or a decision reached Hopefully by the end of next week, but it may spin into the week after And we we now would have to communicate to all stakeholders who sent in their requirements. This is what we're thinking. What do you think? so it's a lot of I like what you've done here and Readdressed it. There was we compiled 63 user stories in total It was comforting to see that a lot of the the requirements from From sent us from fedora from rel actually overlapped and could be amalgamated into the same user story So that was that was nice to see kind of made A big task a little bit easier Um, but the there was 63 in total usable user stories and I'm going to be publishing them early next week It's not a decision. It just wants you to I just want you to be aware of this is what came back to us and this is what we can run with Okay, thank you Thank you all for your help with it. It's the big Thank you very much for joining us. This was really helpful and useful to me. I hopefully to other people as well Anyone else have more questions for ifa? No, just a big. Thank you. That was very useful Thank you. Don't hesitate to You're very welcome guys don't hesitate to reach out to me I'll pop in my contact details in the chat. I'm either happy to talk learn more work closer with you happy to do that Great. We are very happy to have you in the fedora community working with us on this. Thank you Okay Next topic. Um, I think we need to talk about COVID-19 a little bit and fedora and the coronavirus Obviously Things are escalating everything in massachusetts is closing down including harvard university, which is kind of shocking You know, we don't close for blizzards. So this is A big deal I'm joking a little bit because what can you do? But it's also very serious. You see the news coming out of italy and everywhere else around the world Where I know we've got a lot of fedora contributors that i'm Concerned about the health of and I hope everybody and everybody's family is doing well Um, I just want to talk about you know our events and things and um, you know Block coming up and what what what we as fedora council should be doing and saying about this at this point Then do she give guidance to mindshare about events and what? um All of that I suppose the biggest question I have is When do we have to make a decision about flock or has that already been made? Murray here I'm here. Um, yes We've so we've gotten to a point where we have put a deposit down on an event space um that There's some things in the contract to be able to You know get some or Some of the money back Um, but that deposit the first initial deposit has been made I plan to put this decision or at least get input from red hat And how they want us to proceed with it because they have a lot of people who are focused on events and um evaluating those I don't find myself particularly qualified To make a call like that, especially this far in advance Although I do think that generally red hat is risk averse so The answer might be that it's canceled, but uh, I'm not that's not official news Please please don't take it that way. Um It's still work in progress and the question of when do we need to exactly know by is a good one And I'm going to find out Yeah, um from what I've seen a lot of a lot of you know events around the size of flock are Canceling now and moving to july and august So it is possible, you know It's very hard to predict, especially the future Um, this this could go in a lot of different ways. Um, and it may be that by By august, you know travel restrictions are down, but maybe that they're a lot more severe So I think um Yeah Letting the experts make the call is probably the right thing to do for flocks. So we don't have news yet is right I guess i'm Right now i'm kind of more thinking about like the meet-up some things that we sponsor through mindshare and whether we should Officially put a hold on those Red hat just announced a thing that basically said Uh, if you were having a meet-up above, you know, above 100 people Do not do that if you're having something below 100 people Um, the wording was a little bit different, but it was You should postpone or make that virtual still still pretty strong on those probably not do that Yeah, um, and especially when we're talking about, you know travel outside of your area in particular, um is Strongly Disrecommended that's not the words either, but um, and I think we should probably extend that to fedora events I don't want to flip out, but like I said, you know the news from italy is pretty bad and These are places where there are Any of china as well where they've pretty developed health care systems are having a hard time We have a lot of fedora and a lot of fedora events in areas that are You know, maybe not at that level and are going to probably be hit worse. Um, so You know when we have countries like the u.s. Where we don't You're right. I was gonna say the united states, um May fall under that because we we don't know what I mean. It's a big uncertain thing. So um Yeah, um I I think so I think my thought is we probably shouldn't sponsor any events At least for like the next three months And then I think ascending I think the next question is do we you know fund people to go places I think the answer is also no That's kind of matches what I'm thinking as well. So yeah, I'm plus one to that Um, yeah, I think we can I think we can safely say that for like the next three months And if it's outside of that, I think we can like Look at each case Okay. Yeah, I think we should just do the events that have already been rolling Let's try that one at a time Um, do we have any existing events that are already funded for the next three months? That's a great question. How should we handle that? I'm writing that one down All right. Well the answer is we'll find out I think it makes perfect sense to have a rolling decision on this As things evolve So two questions for me are when do we need to know for flock if we're going to cancel or Keep it kind of a thing or what when would that make sense to make that decision? and Do we have events that are already funded? And we're going to do some rolling decision making on events moving forward Uh, I guess the good news is that people in fedora are well Familiar with collaborating remotely and working from home and using video conferencing to get things done. So Hopefully things will mostly be business as usual for us And hopefully we can you know share some of our expertise in working this way with our other co-workers and people who don't We are doing a good amount of you know, brainstorming around red hat summit So I don't mean we can use some of those same things if we want to do some virtual events It's the same concepts. Um, I think if walk does get canceled and there's a bigger conversation there because that's a huge component for contributors Over the year to kind of give them the energy for the next year. So Right Let's have a conversation when it comes but But yeah, I don't think that just canceling it is The best thing to do. I think we would have to do or I would like to do something I don't think we have to call it like a virtual flock, but I don't know right it's to me To me, um, we do the thing that most people think of as a virtual conference Continually at fedora like fedora is an ongoing virtual conference. That's kind of what we are um So having a virtual flock I mean the whole point of flock is that it is not virtual it gets us together So we can't really have I agree. We can't have a thing that's virtual flock. But on the other hand Doing what we can to do a celebration of the community Even without that seems like a good thing, but you're right. Let's let's wait till it gets to Where we need to do that All right, um, peter you said you had to go halfway through but you're still here. I'm glad we held your attention um Anything else no the the person that I was meeting with cancelled You know, all right Anybody have anything else for the last five minutes of the meeting here? All right Oh good I want to do a quick reminder that um, you know, we're open to suggestion. I just dropped the link in the chat I'll drop it in the council IRC channel. But if there are things that you want to have As part of this monthly video series Add it to the wish list on the wiki so that we can try and get that scheduled Um, I've updated it to include tbd for the next three months, but I already have some ideas in mind I just need to um, you know coordinate with those people and get those on the list Yeah, awesome. And I think technically this worked very well I we've been trained to use jitsi an open source video solution that we are very fond of in theory um, but it was not actually being able to sustain a Whole conversation with all of these people. So Blue jeans it is. Thank you blue jeans. Um, and I'm going to try and get this up on fedora of youtube channels and things after this meeting Figure that out Bye everybody