 There we go. All right in the name of the father and son the Holy Spirit Grateful friends that you've joined us For this webinar. My name if you don't know who I am my name is Dan Burke. I'm the president of the Avalon Institute for spiritual formation Really grateful to have a dr. Mark bill of Meravali with us tonight He holds the st. John Paul the second chair of Mariology at Franciscan University of Steubenville where he's been teaching since 1986 and he's also a professor of Ave Maria University. He's actually down that way now as we're as we as he joins us tonight Dr. Marvali is the founder and senior editor of ec Eche Mater to a an international journal of Mariology research He's also president of the International Marion Association and Dr. Maravali because the Lord loves me and loves us is also a professor with the Avalon Institute High-calling program if you don't know what that is we form men for a year in their discernment process to prepare them To be holy priests and seminaries. So he's Helping us with that project. Welcome dr. Maravali. Thank you Dan. It's a joy to be with you And if you don't mind I'll use the shorter form and call you mark from here out I think you told me you could I could do that please do appreciate it I know you're gonna want to know more about him if you didn't know I mean he's he's probably One of the most prominent Mariologists of our time, but you can find out more about his work at mother of all peoples calm and that's flashed up on the screen there So so mark Really excited to be talking to you about this, you know, I I'm a convert and I remember this this will make you laugh when I when I about half So I was an Anglican seminary and postulate for holy orders when I entered into our CIA To my bishop didn't know of course. I eventually told him but About halfway through RCIA I said I went to the director and I said look I'm cooked I totally believe in the magisterium of the church, you know that this is Jesus church that he founded I said but I don't I'm gonna be honest with you I don't get Catholic soteriology, which I thought I understood which for the people listening is the doctrine of You know how it is that we're saved and I don't understand the Mary thing But I will promise To learn what the church teaches and I will obey and I'll submit to what the church teaches so since then I've written a best-selling book on the rosary and Based on St. Teresa of Abilah's teachings and and and St. John Paul the second to a new sorry, I'm being Virginia's Mary a And so I have deeply entered a Marian devotion, but I will be honest to say That this interview and preparing for this interview and you know leading up to it I'm excited to learn from you because I think that Certainly, I've taken her as my mother But my devotion is very personal. Yeah, I haven't gotten into the secrets or you know You you sent me a few great books on Fatima And I'm you know learning more about that so I'm I'm excited to talk with you about all of this But I think a good phrase a good place to start is is the is something I'm really interested in To set it up. I think it's a time in the church where faithful Catholics need hope More than most more, you know, I've been a Catholic since 2005 you've been around a lot longer than I have but I think it's a time of difficulty Unexpected difficulty inside the church. I see a reason for hope But I think from a Marian standpoint the idea of the triumph of her immaculate heart really intrigues me And where did this phrase or idea first appear? In the church and in church history Yeah, again, and let me just say and thank you for you know Confessing and professing about your past and you know, it's people are surprised That the merry dimension is the last thing they accept But they shouldn't be because if you accept the merry dimension, you accept the full nine yards of what it means to be Catholic You don't have a problem intercession the saints, you know the problem with holy cells and purgatory You don't have a problem with intercessory prayer. So it's really rather Logical, I remember the time that Scott Hahn when he was teaching at lowest college many years ago Invited me to give a talk on our lady and then confess well I'm really inviting you because my wife is Protestant and Talk about, you know the Catholic about our lady, you know during dinner and We did and you know, this was Kimberley and then gave a lecture at Loris and called him a week later and said Scott how things with with Kimberley said never worse Can I can I tell you a funny twist on that? So we just did we just did the rosary crusade We had 7 000 people sign up crashed our website and all that but Kimberley was one of the people leading the rosary Yeah, right, right and because Once she had it laid out for her and had to face it Ecclesiastically face to face. I mean you can't dodge this stuff. This is the mother You accept her you accept the church. You accept mediation. You accept sacramental life. You accept priesthood. You accept intercession You accept angelic mediation When you accept the mother and so then she became you know who she is and a gift to the church in that that regards as well so But to your question, which is which is critically important The term triumph of the immaculate heart of Mary Becomes universalized at Fatima. This is July 13th 1917. Yes, there were saints that made reference to it earlier st John Hughes back in the 17th century, but This is where it takes on a global theater You know Dan to understand What she's talking about. I think we have to first ask What do we have to triumph over what's happening historically? I mean Why is the age we're living in through no merits of our own called? And oftentimes referred to as the climax of the age of Mary the summit of the age of Mary Well that presupposes an age of Mary right and that presupposes the question well, you know Why would our lady come in this period since the 1830s with more approved apparitions than any other time in history? And we want to say because you know, we're doing a great job. Unfortunately, that's not the case right You know, so so what manifests itself at the beginning of the 19th century very briefly here you have kind of a A tripod a beast, you know a three-headed serpent that that historically makes a show you have atheism You have marxism And you have Freemasonry Atheism is is really a new invention. I mean there's never been A tribe a primitive tribe discovered that were atheists This is all within the last three centuries with with any type of Of a quantitative support And then you have marxism with marx and angles and and the evils of that would be manifest, of course In 20th century more specifically with communism and then you have Freemasonry and Freemasonry is the natural ill effect of the enlightened mentality where basically you're saying It's my reason over the church. You know, Dan as you shared about the magisterium Uh, this is the inverse. It's my mind is more important than a god-given holy spirit guided authority And whether Luther intended it or not He really becomes the father of the enlightenment when he rejects Authority based on a sola scriptura point. There's there's much more about that later But that's what we're seeing at the beginning of the 19th century And then as we move into the century, and of course our lady appears with the miraculous medal She appears Crushing the head of the serpent. She appears as the co-redemptive mediaeptics and advocate if you understand the symbolism that's there as well as queen And you get the symbol of the two hearts that all comes out of that miraculous medal So 19th century continues and we have what we have new offenses against faith That's what that akin one was all about fideism rationalism Either you've got to have a reasonable support to believe it Uh, or there's no reasonable support to believe it So the errors of enlightenment start infecting corrupting the church members of the church members within of course And that brings its way and so we have lords, right? We have the immaculate conception the the pure one who's going to crush the head Of the product of in the source of all these evils That's what brings us into fatima. So as we enter the 20th century We're in year three of world war one There is a untold pessimism throughout the world people couldn't believe that the whole world would be at war Then the mother comes so that historical perspective is important to see why does she come so often? Why does she come so powerfully and why does she make a prediction about a future victory? It's also what you mentioned before then. I mean hope Is the ultimate sign that we believe that christ is in control And that's why when his mother comes To say and what is she predicted fatima that that pregnant july 13 1917 message There's going to be a second world war There's going to be communism spreading its errors The holy father will have much to suffer And various nations will be annihilated a prophecy which has not yet been fulfilled There's been nations that have had their borders changed, but there's no nation that's been annihilated So that's what's to come our lady doesn't mince words In the end she promises in the end maya mac that heart will will triumph And a period of peace will be granted to the world So That's the promise that's that phrase triumph of the immaculate heart And you know dan every authentic apparition since fatima Makes reference to fulfilling that phrase And in the end my immaculate heart will try so In in in long response to your question. What is the triumph the triumph? represents hearts united to the immaculate heart of Mary through consecration ideally That will help the church in the world get through a time of purification ultimately leading to an era of peace So the please so the triumph her immaculate heart then is this Period of peace that we we've yet to come to but as you indicated with The rise of these destructive ideologies We're sort of in the in the midst of all that tumult and it's all of the product of the the tumult But we can have hope That the lord is in control. I think you know, this is a big issue for faithful catholics. I think because one thing i've noticed among a lot of my friends who are in media and a lot of A number of them are in the traditionalist realm Is when they look when they examine what's happening in the church They look at it purely through A human lens like a political lens You know people on the left and people on the right and I know that shorthand works to some degree But for me what i'm always looking at i'm asking What is god doing like why did he allow this and I for me I think What is happening now is the answer to prayer That we'd be purified and that All that is hidden be revealed. You know what I mean? It's almost like Like I've had I have I've had I still have an illness that threatens my life that I deal with Constantly and I've been hospitalized and had more surgeries and I can count But I can tell you like there's one time I had this serious issue in my brain and I couldn't walk and and Take care of myself very well for a period And a diagnosis came and I was In even though the issue was not reparable in any sort of direct way So that meant I would suffer for a long time I was really relieved by the diagnosis, you know, just naming the thing or whatever So and I think this idea of the triumph of the macular heart does the same thing It raises us out of the muck Out of this realm of oh these bad people scheming to God's in control And and what he's doing is necessary for the redemption of the world And in the end, uh You know the the macular heart would triumph will know a time of peace Do you see it that way as do you find? That is is that what this doctrine if you will or this idea helps us to come to is just a more A deep understanding of the providence of God. Yeah, I mean it certainly does that I couldn't help But think as you're talking about your own illnesses You know that the quintessential message of fatima, you know that The children ask the angel, you know, there's the three apparitions that fatima that happened before our ladies apparitions of angelic apparitions and the angel says You know offer sacrifice and and and the children said how How do we make sacrifice? And the archangel would respond make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to the most high god So, you know, again, there's there's these throughout the whole marion message and and right up to today There are these there's two elements one is the vertical dimension and that's called reparation That's what we do to console our god. It's almost beyond Imagination that we dare think we can except he tells us we can't that through our love our prayer Our offerings of sacrifices and sufferings like you experience You can actually bring a type of healing balm to the heart of jesus And fatima takes it to the next step of saying and do it to the immaculate heart of Mary So, you know, Dan there might be eight billion people alive today somewhere around that right 7.9 Oh The eight billion people alive today how many love our lady How many know her how many accept her as the mother given? By jesus at the cross. Well, you know, there's there's 1.0 1 billion catholics Uh, if you add another 700 million orthodox and and Protestant, I mean, we're not even at 3 million 3 billion excuse me by most standards that means the vast number of people don't love the mother That means we who do Have to offer her consolation. We who do have to offer her Reparation that's what the five first saturdays is all about. So there's a vertical dimension But then there's always the horizontal dimension in the merry-messing that is for the conversion of sinners And so we look to offer our sufferings in prayer and right up to the present moment You know, if I'd asked someone what's the three greatest crosses in your life They probably take about 60 seconds for most people to come up with the three. I mean, we know We're suffering when other challenges So we offer it both to console the hearts of jesus and Mary. That's the vertical but also to save souls That's christian That's why javel said we're co-redeemers in christ. We lose that component, Dan Not only do we not follow the message of our lady But we lose the very fiber of the church as a co-redeeming sacramental priestly ordained Function of salvation Amen. It's well said my wife It was telling a retreat group the other day that we were hosting here at the retreat center That she believes my calling is actually to offer up suffering. So I I totally I totally get that I think Often, you know, we get caught up just back in the same problem the human dimension And don't realize that our suffering Join with the suffering of christ join with the suffering of mary Is the way that god redeems the world. It's a hard concept. I don't know why it's so hard to get but Yeah, it's just something that I think it's because people think they're They're a little trifling Whatever is meaningless, but what they don't realize Maybe you could comment on this That uh as the father revealed through st. Caster of sienna We can't make up for a single sin if we lived an entire life of penance But coupled with the grace of god coupled with the suffering of our redeemer Any the tiniest penance we pursue Is magnified exponentially right to to the salvation of the world no, it's it's very true and uh Once again, if we focus on kind of a semi-plagian or plagian idea. Well, I'm only doing this alone But well, we can't do anything alone I mean even what the monfort says the greatest maryon enthusiast of all time says look Without jesus mary is less than an atom And that's almost insulting right less than an atom with jesus Oh, she's the powerful mediator. It's well that principle applies to us too Without jesus our suffering has been nothing with jesus He defaults dan in almost every conceivable way jesus defaults to let his creatures participate in his greatest works Why? Because it's more glory for him and it's more sanctification for us. Where's the loss? and so this this, you know, there's this kind of theological Protestantism which you know, I'm sure you'll appreciate with your background of of kind of The litany of solos right it's it's it's it's only scripture scripture alone It's it's faith alone. It's graceful, but it's jesus alone jesus did salvation by himself We according looser We're two other Our corruption makes us unworthy to do anything That's a grievous historical error. I mean we could really say one bad self image changed the last 500 years of the church Right, right And so instead no we are children Fallen absolutely, but good Whom jesus wants to include in every conceivable way. He does the same with the angels St. Thomas says the angels are the secondary causes of god He includes is it why because it's like a it's like a dad and mom Preferring their kids to be victorious than themselves or wanting them to share in every possible good You think, you know, we as parents are less Munificent than god himself So this participation in redemption is is critical for the fatima message and I'm glad you continue to emphasize hope again, basically You know passing out catechisms as wonderful So blind as the catechism is on street corners probably is not going to save a lot of souls right now Why because as we were talking about before we got in the air there's a lot of woundiness out there There's a lot of suffering. There's a lot of people who don't feel god's love And so they've got to see joy in us Yeah, when they see joy in us they'll say, okay That person has something. I don't have what is it right and then Christ and then the mother and then the faith so This is not just kind of a a hallmark hyperbole to say Oh and also we should be kind of joyful why we live our faith It's it's a preeminent responsibility because it's so important for evangelization right now Yeah, my peace I leave you my peace I give you not as the world gives Do not let your heart be troubled. Do not let it be afraid people don't read that as both a promise and a command, right? So we've got to live out the command to not let our hearts be troubled or afraid and if they're not troubled or afraid What are people going to see fearlessness Joy as you mentioned, right? So what is this? You know scripture A lot of us especially converts know the scripture reasonably well and especially the Kind of apocalyptic elements or Protestants are really obsessed with that catholic not so much, but what does the scripture say? about the times leading up to the triumph like what It doesn't reveal anything that we can sort of sense is give us a proximity To this time of triumph. Are we are we getting close, you know, or is it just too tough to figure out? Yeah, that's of course, you know kind of a loaded question for a first-time guest And I just want to say for the record, but but I will accept it and look there's there's endless possible interpretation of the book of revelations of of you know, Matthew 24 of these references of signs and I don't say that in any sense of disrespect They're biblical and they're inspired and they have purposes And so I mean, there's there's more ultimate signs of you know, warring famine even You know towards a climactic moment of the purification red moons, you know Moon reflecting a red which is biblical and going back to Dan and others but I think really to understand what's happening right now. It's better to see the bookends of scripture and the bookends of scripture Is that a woman's going to crush the head of god's most heinous creature and in Genesis 3 15 and in revelations 12 1 when The dragon the same evil serpent can't get the woman and heros week he turns on verse 17 of chapter 12 says the rest of her offspring That would be us And and that's what we need to know is that we're input essentially a spiritual battle right now That I would say is unprecedented And the reason I I think you can defend that it's unprecedented is yes, there's been family breakdown and debauchery and other you know challenges in the past never Since christ has walked the earth has there been such an assault on marriage Between a man and a woman on life I mean the most dangerous geography in the world right now is in the womb. Yeah, that's a travesty This has never happened before and you've had These expressions in different corrupt elements of society But never so much that it seeks legislation That that you mean these are things that were done behind closed doors now We want to we want tax relief for our vice And this is worldwide particularly in the west right and so I think we are in an unprecedented point of Of attack on god and family and and and gospel And so the mother is going to respond With again more generous graces than ever before that's why we have this age of marriage It's been that a remarkable times in the history of the church that have loved our lady None of them have been called the age of Mary There's been more approved apparitions the last two centuries the last 18 before That's because the mother's coming with a power And if you want to talk about authentic christian feminism We have to talk about our lady's Power her authority that god Jesus gives her because of her co-redemptive role in his great victory This is pious the 12th his mary's You know, uh, she's queen because she partook of the conquest of victory She suffered with the christ at calvary She was with him from the beginning. She's the one who brought us the redeemer And so in light of that are we surprised that the son would send his mother to our age? powerfully bringing great grace and great hope so I you know to your statement Every single person that's that's that's alive every person that's listening to our podcast Has been chosen to be alive right now. Yeah, and has been chosen To work for the triumph And that means the closer we get to our lady the closer she brings us to her eucharistic son The more we're at the heart of the church under the vicar of christ and the more we can step it up Because we can do this we were meant to do it We were chosen to do it and we have all the graces to do it with the eucharist our mother and at the heart of the church You know, I wonder, you know, if we have any converse listening or new converts and or uh, I don't know what it's like for cradle catholics, but it was I accepted of course all the mary and dogmas once I learned them and It came to understand them, but I you know understanding them was difficult But but working in exorcism ministry, which I have and uh as well as deliverance I asked an exorcist why She's so powerful. Why does god, you know, how does god use her in exorcism? Which I think it's relevant to all of this conversation And he said because um, she's in a she's in terms of order of creation Not as high as the angels And and and and and sense a little jewish girl, right a holy one, of course a little jewish girl And it's humiliating For the hordes of demons to be subject to this little jewish girl, you know And I just I found such delight in that and of course then I learned that if she shows up in an exorcism All it all ends like, you know, demons are chased away and so When we talk about the darkness descending in our time, right or emerging however you want to say it And when we talk about how god always in the midst of darkness raises up means Through which we can and will be saved through which we can and will We can participate in the redemption of the world You know, yes, exorcisms are getting harder. Yes, uh, it's there's more cases. Yes There's more deliverance ministry needed. Yes all this but the exact same time as you note Mary is being raised up in this period more than any time in the history of the church Which is a sign And and I guess I'll ask you I'll finish the statement with a sign. Is that the sign That her triumph is already emerging or is there something else that reveals that reality? yeah, interesting again that you know Hope saint paul the sixth wrote an apostolic letter which is Almost completely ignored. It's called signum magnum. Uh, it was on may 13th 1967 and it literally means the great sign and it's making reference to Revelations 12 and fatima and he completely equates the two then Fatima is the fulfillment of the woman clothed with the sun With the moon under her feet and and with a crown of 12 stars But she is a dynamic woman bringing grace now as you rightly testified Amarth all the major exorcists have said as soon as our lady enters in Uh, it's over. Why? you well articulated it's because You know lucifer who st. Thomas thought was you know could be either seraphim or or or cherubim But but arguably one of the highest angels The idea that he would have to submit to a god man was tough enough To the word taking on flesh but then when it's revealed and then This god man will get his nature through a woman and she will be your queen Well, that's when he redoubles his non-servia. I'm not I'm not even going to serve a god man, let alone a human woman So under my created natural abilities But that's why the immaculate conception is the greatest High point of all creation after The sacred humanity of jesus in the supernatural order And her full of grace even Genesis 3 15 as soon as god puts the enmity between the woman and the serpent What's the next thing that happens? Corredemption she will crush your head. So we go from grace To co-redemption and the same thing is true for us the more we're in grace the more we can help save souls When we sadly are out of grace We lose that ability and so The fact that the immaculate conception is the one who's coming god's greatest creature Who will defeat god's most heinous creature? I mean we've got a promise from heaven dan that we're going to win There's not a lot of situation. Is this like what we're promised victory? This is one of them. It's called life being alive right now as a catholic We are promised victory now if that doesn't give us hope and joy and in granted it's still a battle Sheen is right the church will have to go through a passion and death for it to experience a resurrection too um I remember being on a mother angelic a live show years back and Mother said, you know, of course, you know on mother's programs. It was about 45 seconds of preparation What are we going to talk about tonight, honey? And then we go out and she never followed even that 45 seconds of what we said And so we get on the get out there we're supposed to talk about john paul and our lady and she says What do you think the tribe from matthew heart's going to be like and in the era of peace I said, oh, well mother, I think she won't let me tell you what I think it's going to be Didn't even let me get a word in She said I think it's going to be an era where everybody Is aware of the indwan jesus and their soul And so fundamentally everyone will be living in grace And that's what's necessary to have an external era of peace I think she's pretty bang on on that So we have to get there Anybody who thinks we're in an era of peace right now doesn't read headlines. Right, right So we have to be ready for process. The reason I bring it up is joy and hope absolutely, but battle also And that's why the more we can increase our eucharistic time Whether it you know, and everybody's got to make that call themselves, right? That's an individual call, but Objectively the more the lady can step it up And add to the eucharistic time if they're not doing a holy hour once a week Ponder doing it getting it in if they're already doing a holy hour Maybe shorter visitor in the week both the Eucharist and the same thing with our lady They haven't done the consecration. It's time to do it If they're able to pray a little bit more of the rosary it's time to do it But the more we can structure Set ourselves between those two pillars the Eucharist and the mother the more we will not only endure The more we will help others make it through this time of challenge to the ultimate promise of peace Amen, so in terms of sequence Which I think you alluded to a little bit um Is it the end of times or just a period of peace that will end With the coming of the antichrist, so what's or I don't know if I answered to ask that question. Well, but regardless What maybe you know what I should have asked what is the sequence? As best we understand it from where we sit right now, right? And let's just start by saying There's not clarity about the sequence. Okay, but there are indications about the sequence. So I think Like even reference of antichrist. Let's talk about that just objectively for a moment There's two major theories about when antichrist when the antichrist makes an appearance One is at the very end of the world uh as kind of a final Upstart of the adversary that god permits and then his final destruction or final, you know condemnation into Eternal hell in the chains of hell the other is that it would be uh more towards a period of Uh purification in the church so Even some of the fathers of the church st. Bernadette Clairville Talked about a second coming a middle coming of christ was his expression a middle coming of christ in the spirit So you have the first coming of jesus with the With the incarnation then you have the final coming of jesus at the end of time But bernard and a few other fathers talked about a middle coming of christ through the holy spirit and uh, some would hold That satan would raise his head in a prominent way before This era of peace or or you know, what sometimes biblically they'd reference to as in a thousand year reign So some of those are difficult, but i would say this in general We still i would say have great challenges to go both in the church and the world in terms of purification crises Some in the church Certainly the world scene i mean That's you know, you don't have to be a prophet to say things are not looking good With russia and ukraine with china and taiwan with iran in and the whole Israel Let alone the economic situation So there's plenty to be concerned about on a global basis So i think the timing of sorts is There will be further purification further challenge which we can all do with the ukrist and our mother in the heart of the church And then there will be an era of peace there will be a time of peace, but it's not the end of the world The only reason i say that is because our lady never does in all of her messages She does not say the era of peace is followed or or constitutes the initiation of Jesus's final coming She always talks about a period of peace a time of peace. So i think one fair scenario is to say Purification time of difficulty trying to the immaculate heart Which really leads to the reign of the many names for new springtime of the church Peace sacred reign of the sacred heart is also some it's in in the messages of our lady And after that time, uh, there will be continued elements that will you know later Cause another final purification to take place But i i would be of the school that yeah, we are in the midst of great challenges After our challenges, there will be an era of peace But but no end of the world because it's simply it simply is not revealed either In official scripture and certainly not in our lady's message Good now let's come out of the clouds a bit. I so i i will just say this I think that you are in a position a unique position in the church with other scholars to sort of Work these things out and focus on these things But my next question I think is what do the rest of us do, right? What does the average layperson do because I think, you know, we can't resolve those questions and so we need to And and I do think at times there's an an overly an excessive obsession with with things that we cannot resolve or cannot Clarify third secret is one of them as an example Where there's thousands of you know pages of inks built and I want to say But what does that leave the average? You know parishioner to do the average Catholic to do And is this really where we should be focused and I I just That doesn't It feels like curiosity to me in many ways. It feels like obsession When there are things that we can do that are very specific That actually help instead of causing That obsession that's spinning that focus on things that doesn't affect Our salvation or the way that we interact with others or the way that we worship or the way that you know So what can the laity do to help bring about the triumph of the macular heart whatever That means in terms of sequence or whatever which I I think is out of our Control and out of our perfect understanding, but what can we do specifically to to help This all come about The good the hopefulness all that come about Yeah, yeah, it's a great question and you know as I began to try to answer that question How could we rest our peace on something that's completely uncertain? We don't know there's there's speculation regarding those elements things like sequencing I would confirm that there can be a great danger in an excessive focus on these Really, it becomes a type of nosticism That Takes away our peace. I mean There was actually a series of a very damaging false apparitions that were circulated Um in the last four or five years that caused untold lack of peace anxiety there was reference of Things like a warning that was going to come now. I want to just say for clarity I believe there will be a warning an interior type of illumination But this was done in such a mode That it spoke about a warning and then you had to go to a shelter and then you had to Literally break your laptop and then you're going to be provided for maracas for three and a half years and and I can't tell you how That led people away From the heart of what we should be doing right now All they were doing was planning on getting their money out and putting it under mattresses and trying to get provisions For one they had to their angel was to guide them to a certain A refuge Extremely dangerous and and these are wonderful Wonderful faithful catholic people just saying I just I want to be prepared And that's why the mother continues to repeat that Her refuge is her immaculate heart. She's not being cute with that. She's trying to say it's the spiritual life We will get everything we need in practical dimensions if things get more challenging That's part of our trust But when that's a preoccupation Then you have an inverse order Then you're talking about material preparation first and you're talking about spiritual peace at the end And nothing is more contrary. Honestly, Dan, I I see it as the adversary Stealing sheep from our lady's flock out the back door And they're they're being let out the back door by that concern Of I've got to know otherwise I won't do it right That's not sticking our contition, but it's it's not catholic and you said something really important I think it's worthy of making bold and highlighting The this the disordered order of of how we come to peace We don't come to peace by storing up food By you know stacking guns in a closet by following a you know, uh the strange guy with the uh With the prophetic, you know saying whatever it is We come to peace by drawing near to christ by drawing near to the blessed mother We come to peace through daily mental prayer Through the rosary through the through the through the Eucharist And and one of the things I tell people Who are you know folk overly focused I tell them The the entire divine economy is ordered to your salvation And everything in that divine economy Is all you need for your salvation So so you don't need to go Looking for that. Oh, where's that prophet that'll tell me this new thing or that that new thing? Or exactly what I should do. We already have everything we need I would include fathoma in that everything right Though it's private revelation. Of course, it's it's probably the most Revered of all private revelations. You could you could tell me if that's not true But um let I wonder If I want to make sure we covered it well, I may have cut you off. You may have been heading there. So What can the lady do? So one of the things you did say the lady can do to Bring about the triumph is not focus all the create on all the craziness, right? And all the you know obsession But what can they do in the more positive? Sense to help bring about the triumph of the immaculate heart. Yeah, and again a keyword here is is balanced Dan because Look fathoma gave prophecy We can't deny that and we can't say Well, that wasn't helpful. It was extremely helpful. Sure. He does give authentic prophecy, but you'll notice it's always a prophetic dimensions that lead to a greater interior life And a greater awareness of events so that we can pray more Yeah, it's it's it's not the focus on the concrete material. It's the focus on Even events that she predicts like a second world war. What's the benefit of that? You get us to pray more, right? I was given a talk in in new zealand and on fathom and divine mercy a guy came up and said You know, I finally just realized my dad was the first soldier who died in world war two for new zealand If we had a fall of fathoma, I'd still have my dad There are real ramifications when we don't follow our lady's message At the same time this this idea that if we don't know step by step We're somehow not going to be prepared again. That's narcissism and that's belated. So To the question what are we supposed to do? sometimes We would expect an extraordinary answer and the answer is I think we have to step it up To the ability that we can Spiritually and according to state in life and by that I mean once again parent sacramental life of the church um The more you one thing we won't worry about dan at the end of our lives We won't be saying gosh, you know it. There's so many regrets. I just regretted the time I spent in Eucharistic adoration I just did too much adoration. It's probably not going to happen It's it's near impossible to do that, you know, we adore we imitate the angels and the highest level of the angels I think we have to to keep our peace as external things get more challenging We're going to have to take out our dating planner and like, you know, a cardiac surgeon cut stuff away That's not as necessary and include more time for the Eucharist and more time for as you say mental prayer And the rosary the power of the rosary here in the month walked over the power of the rosary has changed the course of human history It can do so continuously But I think we're going to have to get a little bit more generous quite frankly And that's what I mean by stepping it up. Uh, and I I say this with complete respect We've got some heroic clergy out there. We've got some heroic bishops out there. We also have some that are really Um facing great confusion in our time. I mean look at the hierarchy in Germany That is a very difficult thing Our task is not to focus on the german synod our task is to be aware of it. So we pray more And we're more faithful faithful with these things, you know, as a theologian, maybe you can comment on this I I I've uh Came across this in carmelite spirituality And I and I I don't think it's understood well at all which is God has desired ends and chosen means And the chosen means often to his desired ends is prayer meaning If we pray his ends will come to fruition and if we don't they won't Not because we're all powerful but because that's what he has decided That's how he brings about what he wants to bring about And so when we talk about the power of the rosary, sure We're we're we're asking for prayers of the blessed mother She's revealing jesus to us and all of that But we are entering in when we when we agree with god in a sense by faith And then we act according to that agreement. So faith working itself out in love Then we enter into being an instrument of god to bring about the kingdom. And so I think That's where the essence of the power understanding. Why does my prayer matter? So much does that make sense? It very much makes sense And I think we have to be honest as westerners and as americans I love my company be willing to die for my country We're a pragmatic folk We love to fix things and we like to do it ourselves We have a certain rugged individualism and in many ways that's that's laudatory Except in the spiritual life in the spiritual life. We have to have the humility. So what I'm getting at is You you can almost hear, you know people listening to us to say, yeah prayer, but what am I really supposed to do? Right like it's not doing something, right? When we I mean I really want to do something and so we've got examine that And as as people of faith we have to realize Prayer is first. Yeah prayer is tapping supernatural power It's tapping the fulfillment of province as you say god has willed That certain things will only happen through prayer. We're not only people of prayer. We also have action. It's an aura of mora But it's got to be first and last the prayer and that's why for the pragmatic members, uh, you know of our of our of our country We've got to say these beads are more important than than what i'm going to do in terms of writing a legislator or or or Common action. I'm not saying we shouldn't do those things I'm saying it's got to be founded in prayer directed through prayer sustained in prayer He's got to end with prayer And that's why that's the message. That's the marine message to the modern world Eucharist the blessed mother fidelity to the holy father the sacramental life and then I mean it's don boss goes great prophecy, right? with the Eucharist on one pillar and our lady on the other pillar and the boat the great bark of the church Is is fired upon but eventually it goes and and there's peace on the waters I don't know how many images heaven has to give us let alone just the teachings of the church and the pulps that say We have to be people of the Eucharist people of our lady and the rosary consecration and faithful in the church And we can endure everything even more so we're called to be leaders during this time Because we will see what what we need If folks go out to our our community web page, they're going to see the first thing They're going to see is one of the same Uh principles of our community is all things for god Begin before god on our knees because if we begin there When we rise we rise in his power We rise in his wisdom we rise in his strength and the f and what we do as a result of that encounter We'll have eternal consequences Whereas if we just run off without prayer We run off without the wisdom of god without the insight of god without the power of god And so even the best activity has you know a temporal effect It's like ringing a bell that has no ring, you know It's like Clanging something is supposed to be beautiful and proclaim the goodness of god to everything around you ring And it doesn't matter how hard you ring it. It's just a thud And nothing echoes out But when we have the spirit of god in us when we begin on our knees What we do echoes across eternity changes eternity, you know for the goodness of god for the grace of the kingdom So I want to before we get to questions I don't want to forget to get to the fifth mary and dogma Which i'm uh funny enough, you know as a convert You know a huge fan of of course But what is it and how will it help usher in the triumph of the immaculate heart of mary Yeah, so essentially the fifth mary and dogma refers to a movement, which is over 100 years old in the church Started by the belgian cardinal cardinal mercy a in uh 1915 praying and petitioning the holy father To solemnly define our lady's relationship with us So of the dogmas you've talked about dan that the the four dogmas we have to this point is mary's mother of god She's the perpetual virgin the immaculate conception and her assumption and those are beautiful sublime dogmas But none of them deal with her relationship with you or with me or our listeners And so the fifth doctrine of the church what the church officially teaches is that mary is our spiritual mother and in three capacities She's co-redemptrix as st. John paul the second taught seven times That means she uniquely suffers with jesus and the great work of the redemption. She's our model For co-redemption we've talked about code doesn't mean equal that that's blasphemy and heresy and really silly To think that any catholic really thinks mary is equal to jesus. That's that's kind of nonsensical But that she uniquely participated in jesus's role Who would doubt that who put their hand up say, you know, would it be peter or paul's? You know, I think I did more than mary to help save souls Nobody would do that and that's that's what we're talking about. So she's co-redemptrix She mediates all graces and she is our advocate. She's been our advocate since By title since the second century So the movement has been to ask the holy father to solemnly define this why Because he has the keys of peter He can unlock the full graces of her roles And god will not force grace on us nor will our lady force herself upon us The the solemn proclamation is the ultimate yes to her role Which will lead to the triumph of the immaculate of mary John halford the founder of the blue army in fadam in our country Was completely convinced that the dogma this proclamation was the key to the fadama triumph of the immaculate heart of mary So the dogma is the proclamation Of course, it can only be done by the holy father and that's why I encourage people to pray Not based on human assessment pray with faith That our holy father will crown our lady with this dogma because then these graces Can allow her full Exercise of these roles which are not just nice titles their functions in the order of grace for a church in a world that desperately needs them Awesome. So if you're not listening closely, you may have missed those really incredibly practical things to do One deeply immerse yourself in the Eucharist a lot of Catholics Have a shallow understanding of what's happening at the holy sacrifice of the mass And have never read a book about it, you know do that Spend time in Eucharistic adoration Pray the rosary, but I would also add don't buzz through the rosary a lot of rosary praying praying I would equate to witchcraft. I pray this formula. I get this thing But st. Teresa of abalus said and it's what I wrote in my book the contemplative rosary She says that if you don't know to whom it is that you're praying and who you are Meaning you're actually talking to the blessed mother and praying actually in entering into the life of christ Through her eyes as she leads you to jesus as st. paul II John paul II really Beautifully enunciated in rosarian virginius mariae Then you're not praying at all, right? So we don't we pray to be an instrument of god Not to get things. Yes, we should petition But we do for the purposes of the advancing of the kingdom in our own hearts and in the world so Eucharist adoration Mental prayer, which is true vocal prayer, which is vocal prayer truly prayed, right And a lot of people don't believe As john paul and st. Teresa of abalus taught That vocal vocal prayer the praying of the rosary can actually lead you To the deepest kinds of prayer which can make you a saint which is a contemplative prayer In the carmelite tradition. So these basic realities get on them get in them Daily do them and you will become a part of the solution and When you do them hope will begin to emerge more powerfully than ever in your heart. So As we can conclude with you know framing all of this I'm really I just want to tell you I'm really grateful for your enthusiasm because it It conveys hope You you you convey it in your person Which is beautiful, but it's because you're living hope You're living with christ in the blessed mother And that's what we need to give others and help others to do But i'm going to ask our producer if he's got any questions yet If not, I'll I'll ask our audience to begin asking questions. Oh good. So we're already we're already there How will the holy eucharist be part of the triumph of the immaculate heart that came through spiritualdirection.com Okay. Yeah, I think both as means and as end and by that I mean nothing Sanctifies us more than being in our lord's eucharistic presence. I mean look at scripture Miracles would come out of jesus that he didn't even know who touched me, you know So it we have to be very careful not to get cartesian or gnostic about our adoration in other words Well, you know, I'm just not focusing. So there's no value to this at all Look, just being in the presence of our eucharistic lord is sanctifying and then of course we want to do it better We want to do it in love again Teresa defines prayer a conversation with him whom you know loves you. That's what that's what you want to do also but the eucharist I mean think of a pope with a monstrance leading us through a time of and there's great challenges all around us But that's what the eucharist is going to do for this triumph. The eucharist is going to bring us through this with our lady And ultimately leading for the world a time of peace. It will also be the goal. I think mother angelica is right that The the time of peace can only be peace then externally If there's interior peace internally which can only come from the indwelling trinity Which is augmented by our adoration And so you can't have world peace without interior peace So it's going to take the majority of the world To be have to be to be experiencing sanctifying grace And that can happen that can happen what happens, especially after times of great difficulty great challenge Sometimes we have to fall to our knees instead of looking for material elements as our savior like dow jones We may have that taken away from us and that will make it easier for us To see christ for who he is so the eucharist will bring us through the process and the eucharist Will be the foundation of the ear of peace both both and i believe Awesome, awesome before we get the next question. I want to tell folks about a few things Uh resources, so if you've enjoyed dr. Meravali You can head out to sofia institute.com and do a search and you'll see a A number of great books by him one meet marrying Getting to know the mother of god Many others so check that out at sofia institute.com. So that's one one thing you can do Also, if you've enjoyed our time and you want to grow deeper in faith And you want to get free formation That normally people have to pay for Go out to apostoleva.org And sign up. We have 7 000 people who signed up for a course on Um Introduction to the devout life. Yes 7 000 you heard it, right? From all over the world and and i'm doing that formations every second and fourth Saturday so apostoleva.org our producer can you put up that url for everybody just for a moment and then uh and and create a profile it's free And uh and then you'll have access to the recordings of the sessions And also free courses on how to overcome habitual sin And many other things that'll help you to grow in holiness. So Let's see producer man. What else do we have? What other questions do we have? From spiritualdirection.com We will have something i've heard of called the illumination of Will we have something i've heard called the illumination of conscience before the triumph good question Okay, a good question. Let's let's talk about the nature of illumination Before talking about the sequence, which you know for a third time We just don't have clarity about the sequence, but Illumination of conscience, which is something Faustina experienced A blessed ennemy of taiji before her several the saints have experienced Is a god-given examination of conscience? Okay, so For anyone who's seeking holiness We should be so very grateful of the possibility Of a god-given examination of conscience. We all have blind spots. That's part of what it means to be a fallen human being We don't see ourselves accurately. And so god in his love Would reveal that now there's been various apparitions that have talked about illumination of conscience even on a global basis Unfortunately, there's also been uh, what i would call pseudo apparitions that have strongly promoted the warning but in ways Extremely inappropriate. Quite frankly because they set out the sequence Like it's a vacation and you know each day what you're going to do Uh, and it's caused great confusion. So just for clarity I think there's good reason to believe that we will receive an illumination of conscience It would be a great gift of god for us to see Uh our weaknesses and blind spots and that that could either be A condition which will lead us more more more more predominantly into the triumph Um, or it could be something that uh, you know, there's a there's a type of victory, you know Many people ask the question. Well with the fifth marion dogma. What's going to come first the dogma or the illumination? We just don't know and and quite frankly some of might just depend on us Uh our lord people say well, why are things taking so long? Well because the father's patient because he wants every single soul possible to be saved and sometimes as peter tells us He delays things So that we can get more opportunity to accept grace. So but I believe both will happen both a proclamation of a dogma which had been prophesied Uh by many authentic apparitions and also an illumination of conscience as kind of a great one to punch To spiritually prepare and to participate in the triumph leading to that year of peace beautiful Uh producer man if you could put up again just mother of all peoples dot com So people can make sure that they can find more Uh directly about dr. Miravalli's work mother of all peoples dot com So you can see that on the screen there. What is our next question? spiritualdirection.com have we already had the era of peace? Well, I don't know about you I don't see any evidence of that. Yeah, I I would say we'd be very hard pressed I mean on on any Criterion to say we're presently in the era of peace. So you can use the two major criteria, right? versus externals Look at the headlines. We're not in a good shape on any general analysis of a natural society on any natural law element, you know It's true to say that even for our own country, you know, we were previously A christian country predominantly protestant christian, but a christian country then we became post christian Then we became post natural law Where we don't even agree on fundamentals of good and evil So that's not just true of our country Many ways were better off than many parts of europe western europe But it's true of most of the west and and a greater part of the world. So we're not doing well on that front and and so To say so that there's the external criteria, right? So we've got wars and rumors of war everywhere and then there's an interior criteria the interior internal criteria is Our most people christian our most people in grace Do most people reflect the the joy and Oh, we lost dr. Meravali. Maybe he'll pop back on He's obviously saying something important pop up for our listeners producer man again apostoleva.org where folks can find Resources let's see Oh, well, yes, of course. I'm looking at my phone to communicate with the producer But apostoleva.org if you want to learn more this Mr. Producer man Why don't you tell me where this recording will be available while we're waiting to see if we regain dr. Meravali Is there a place where people will be able to find it a url? Or do they have to be part of the avala army? I don't know What is the do you have the answer to that before we We probably will have to bring this to a conclusion Is it the avala army? So either way? No matter what the answer is I think we could probably make that happen If you don't know what the avala army is the avala army is a group of people Who understand the crisis in the church and in the world And who have joined with us at the avala foundation To enable us to do what we're doing today to To send Hundreds of thousands of people articles on the interior life Every other day or so to 190 countries to form Over a hundred guys in 40 plus diocese and multiple religious orders To help them before they go into seminary learn how to pray and learn how to be holy Learn to get a heroic imagination learn to discern So that We have healthy guys going into seminary going preparing for seminary Healthy guys going in so we don't lose them in the middle And we don't lose them after they're ordained You wouldn't believe the numbers of guys we lose after they're ordained and we are in a vocations crisis in our time So the other aspect of the avala army that supports us is That we are we have developed a new website That will help guys understand a better discern the priesthood in a safe way And then we partner with dioceses and religious orders to bring guys in through that And uh, you will be a part of when you join the avala army Helping us to bridge to search to solve all of these problems and in the avala army you get access to a bunch of courses um that you would normally have to take through the avala institute and of course, uh the uh This webinar the if you want to check out the my high calling or the high calling program page that we've developed for Seminarians and we developed by the way Uh for guys called the priest we developed it By dr. Joe whole crafty runs our program by asking the guys in our program. Hey, what's appealing to you? So the website design Which is actually designed for a phone it you can see it on the site, but it's designed for a phone Uh, it's designed by the very men who it's seeking to reach So if you want to be a part of I will say this there are a lot of great ministries in the church no doubt I'm friends with a lot of heads of these ministries They're really the apostolates and to use a catholic term really really important But I I don't know about you, but no priests no Eucharist the average The average age of the current priest is 67 That means half of the priests are older than that that we have think about that half of the priests In the united states are older than 67 38 dioceses did not ordain a single man this past year I'm trying to remember all the stats It's not good folks We are making a difference Uh, I don't know any other organization making a bigger difference than us They are in many ways, but in terms of helping guys To prep for seminary so we've got the right guys They are prepared they excel and they become holy priests in the back end There is no other way to make a bigger impact on the church none So if you want to join this great work Go to avala put that up again Jordan Avala army Join the avala dash army dot org Become a part of the solution become a part of the hope And I promise you You'll be rewarded rewarded beyond your wildest dreams because you will be Joining in and participating in the solution God be praised for dr. Mark maravali God be praised for these beautiful truths regarding the blessed mother in this month When we celebrate The queen of heaven We ask for her intercession as we close If you'll pray a hail mary with me, please join us By joining the avala army, please come and get the best formation You can find in the church on the interior life at apostoleva.org And if you do you will not be You will not call me later and say I really regret that I really regret joining in on the solution. I really regret getting the best formation You won't say any of that instead. You'll be among the thousands Who constantly say I can't this has changed my life I'm and I'm I'm grateful to know I'm a part of the solution for the priesthood I'm grateful to know that I'm participating in a in a faithful organization That upholds all the teachings of the church Pray with me as we close and I've just got a quick Okay, I got a message that says we did lose him permanently so we can end but we're grateful to dr. Maravali Pray hail mary with me. Would you please for the salvation of the church for the salvation of? It's people for the renewal of the church for the renewal for the fifth Mary and dogma to be ushered in For the blessed mother to reign and cover us in her protection And that we might be aggressive not self-protective aggressive and giving ourselves to this great mission To heal the church through the avala army through the avala foundation Through the apostles to be a community hail mary full of grace The lord is with thee Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb jesus Holy mary mother of god pray for us sinners Now and at the hour of our death Amen, thank you so much. I just got to note that the building that dr. Maravali is in the power went out So we we can't recover him, but we we decided to close out But please avala dash army dot org apostolate va dot org Check out dr. Maravali's books at sophia's stupress. God bless you. Take care