 Good morning everyone it's nine o'clock and I'm going to call this meeting of the waterways advisory committee to order. We have a roll call please. Yes. Committee member lift up here. Committee member. We should be here shortly. Committee member. Here. Committee member Sanders. Here. Committee member C here. Vice chair. Diki. Diki. Diki, sorry. Here. I'm not fascinated yet. Chair Ragnaraj. Here. Okay. So all members are present to accept one and understand is going to be here as well. Thank you. Thank you. I need to read this to you. The city of Santa Rosa is committed into creating a safe and inclusive environment. We will not tolerate speech or actions that disrupt the public meeting or maybe perceived as aggressive demeaning toward staff and other meeting participants. Staff will be monitoring this meeting and ensuring everyone is participating respectfully. Staff determines that the meeting participant is acting in a disruptive or disrespectful manner. If the behavior continues, they will then be removed. If necessary, we may also immediately end the meeting. If participants have additional questions or concerns, they should reach out directly to the project planner or the applicant team. I'd like to now ask if there is someone who would like a, making public comment on a non agenda item. We're now taking public comments. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is the time for any person to make an address to the subcommittee on matters not listed on the agenda, but are within the subject matter of the jurisdiction of the committee. Yes. How are you? Good morning. My name is Dwayne DeWitt. I'm from Roseland. Glad to see you folks are back in business allowing the public to participate in person. I'm a member of this committee. And I thought at the time that one of the best things the committee could have been doing was to be helping on the aspirations that were originally stated when Mr. Rabinowitz and others helped put the committee together. One of those things would be that there would be some. I'm going to talk about this on future activities along creeks. As it stands now, pretty much what happens is you folks are a reactive body. The staff bring forward something and say, this is what we're doing. We'd like for you to tell us what you think about what we're going to do. And they're going to do no matter what. You just put in something and that's that. I think it would be wonderful if Mr. Rabinowitz and others could move forward on the idea that you folks were involving the public. In the discussions on the public policy decision making for waterways and creeks before projects are actually undertaken. This is really important. I guess it's been about 20 years ago when Jane Bender was mayor and you first started throwing lots of money into the Colgan Creek restoration. Millions upon millions and millions of dollars have been put forward on Colgan Creek. And lots of other creeks haven't really been addressed. The Santa Rosa Creek. It also gets a lot of attention because it's in the center of town. But the city's footprint has grown so much now. It's almost as big as San Francisco. It's almost like I think about 45 square miles. And there's creeks all through the city. And there's different public projects that will be coming forward. I just got something the other day about the. Oh, that Bellevue district project where they're going to be building that fire station. Colgan Creek. My hope is that, especially from discussions we've had in the past, myself and Mr. Dike and others, that the creeks are treated as an asset that could help you to bring in other people's money. OPM federal money, especially along areas that could be utilized for stormwater retention basins. We just went through a three year drought. We'll probably go through more droughts in the future. We'll get occasional big wet years. We should be saving that water in the creek ways without lots of extra engineering. All that money that's getting spent on Colgan Creek right now is actually to undo millions of dollars of work that was done 40 years ago. And we didn't need to do that. So please, you folks get to be the voice. I'm here to encourage you. Don't let anyone hold that against you. I'm just here trying to be that active involved citizen. And I look forward to hearing about these other good things. You know, Thunderbolt Way is where the old air standard used to be out there on what was called the Santa Rosa Naval auxiliary air station. And that runway is still out there in some places. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Nuit. Are there any other members of the public who would like to address the committee on matters not on the agenda. But within our jurisdiction. Anybody on zoom. We have no participants also. Okay. The committee's role is to review development projects, both private and public located adjacent to creeks and waterways for consistency with the goals, policies and regulations. Development identified in the center as a general plan zoning code design guidelines and the city wide creek master plan. Well, the committee does not take formal action on projects. It does provide advisory comments. The decision Bobby all development projects located adjacent to a creek or waterway are required to be reviewed by the waterways advisory committee prior to proceeding through the entitlement process. Item 3.2 regards committee reports are there any reports by any members of the committee. No. Okay, hearing none we're on to item 3.3 which is the election of a chair and vice chair. So what I'm going to do first is to open up nominations for the chair position are there and people can self nominate if they would like. And we will have a second to that motion and vote. Okay. I'm going to make a current chair robot for another term, whatever the term. Second. Oh, that was easy. Other other nations. Anybody. Okay, let's have a close nominations on the labor of my continuation on my role. We say, hi. Hi. I don't hear any nays, but thank you. Once again. How long the term is. It's been a little variable. Yeah, I believe we're supposed to do this annually. Yeah, so I think it's one year but I will send an email out of I'm wrong. Yeah, I think it's got a little out of. Thank you and during the last couple of years, but chaos experienced. And we're very unique committee where the chair is not appointed by the mayor. So all the other committees pretty much are appointed by the mayor. That's what they liked. Yeah, I actually thought that was the way it was done. It's kind of beard back and forth a little bit. Okay. Vice chair is our nomination for vice chair. Thank you. Is there a second second. Thank you. All in favor. Hi, hi, hi. Hello. Congratulations. Good team and a great committee. Thanks to us. Thank you. Thanks for all of you. Robin Robin knowledge. Can you clarify who the second was. Thank you. We'll have a short and sweet. Why don't we move on to department reports. Okay. Okay, but yeah, we can do a new ever introductions. Terry, you're rather new, newish. I am, I am the green one on the, on the field. I'm tearing Sanders. Center Rose resident for 17 years now currently on the center was a planning commission. On a roundfire fire. I know there's never no I hate talking about myself. Retired firefighter 25 years actually in the city of Oakland. Lovely wife, lovely son who's getting his first job interview today. So, Oh, yeah. Very excited. Kevin C, I have, I guess, been on the committee for four years now, I believe, and I teach at the junior college, live in Southwest Santa Rosa. Carol Quant, member of the Recreation and Park Board, currently known as the Board of Community Services and the appointee to this board from that board. Steve Romanovic, I've been on this committee probably since its inception. Started the work here in 1990 on the Prince Memorial Greenway Project with a group of six people, six citizens, that led to where we are today with the Prince Memorial Greenway. And first we started with Santa Rosa Creek Master Plan, but then the city planning department did, which then led to the waterways advisor, the citywide waterways plan. So here we are today, still functional and relevant committee. Anyway, I'll leave it at that. And I teach at the junior college too. And a former Santa Rosa City Council member, right? Oh, that, yes. You're not so proud of that though, right? I did my time. I did my time, that's very telling. Our diagram on environmental consultant, my focus on stormwater pollution prevention and what some people might not know is I have also on the board for the Laguna de Santa Rosa Foundation, which is quite a bit of fun. Cool. I'm also green. My second meeting on the waterways advisory committee, I am the appointee or the valid told person. No, volunteered. I volunteered from the design review board. So I'm on the design review board. And I did train as an architect and my career has been higher education, usually in design of a built environment. So most of us in Boston architectural college, but that's pretty far away. Bad committee, bad committee, bad committee. Anyways, I'm really glad to be here. Very interested in it. What's your name? Nick Littek. Well, welcome to our new members. Glad to have any others. I guess that's everybody in terms of committee members. Is it time for the city staff to provide a briefing on any issues of interest? I'll make a comment on what you just have of new member introduction, sir. Yes, please. It's okay to be green. You've had in mind it's all right to be on an environmental type committee and have some green ideas to do, right? It's very rare. Appreciate that, appreciate that. Be those folks that embrace the environment. Go green. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you. Okay, department reports. Anything, Amy? Nope, I don't have a report for you today. Thank you very much. So we have other reports. Anybody from the water department? Yes. Like to report on an item. Thank you, Chair Rubino. Some members of the committee. My name is Kyle Spomberg. I'm an environmental specialist with the water department storm water and creek section. I don't have any specific department updates, but if I may, I just wanted to highlight some of the upcoming volunteer opportunities that we have in the month of July. So as usual, we'll have our first and third Saturday creek cleanups along the Prince Memorial Greenway on July 1st and July 15th. Cleanups will be from 10 a.m. to noon. And we meet at the Olive Park for bridge. And then we also have a fun children's event on the creek on July 27th that I'd encourage you all to bring children, nieces and nephews or grandchildren down to. Members of the storm water and creeks team will be leading a nature walk with the kids along a restored section of Santa Rosa Creek. We're planning to do crafts with plants and flowers. Look at aquatic macro invertebrates. And we'll also get a chance to get up close with some of the SSU biology department specimens that they have that have offered to bring those to the event as well. So hope to see you all there. All right, thank you. Thank you for all your fine work. Question for Kyle, which section of the creek? Excuse me, what section of the creek is the kids bed at? This is just upstream of Flat Rock Park. It's along stream side drive. Over there. Thank you. I was gonna say they could end the day in the fountain, but by the fish. We can end the creek cleanups at the fountain. I haven't done it myself, but here it's fine. Sonoma water department. Anybody here from the water agency? I don't think so. Okay. We have another comment on this report that was just given from the water department. Yeah. This one bird was too modest. Recently, he was out of throws on a creek where there was the creek air project put together by Santa Rosa working with the community of Santa Rosa and other activities. And there's beautiful murals out there now. You should go Sam painted by the youth, put up out there. Kids are lacking the creeks and they've actually appeared. Some of those youngsters at city council talk about how they want more quicker and stuff. Thank you County, sir. Thank you. Okay. The next item is regarding Chris Memorial Greenway volunteer update. And we all know there have been issues regarding the condition of the greenway. The need for volunteers has become very evident. The creek cleanup efforts have been wonderful from the city volunteer efforts as well. And we have Carol who's been constantly cleaning up the creek as well as others of the committee have. But today I'd like to present Robert Ash who is probably the most devoted person I have seen on the greenway. Or as a volunteer helping with the creeks. Robert is there every morning, I believe, before work and has been leading efforts to do creek cleanups. And he recently has started an effort to get a group together to increase the amount of participation in volunteering and also making sure that the creek remains a vital part of our community. So we've invited Robert to let us know about his most current volunteer effort which is to expand what he has been doing for many years now. And so I'd like to introduce Robert Ash to you. Thank you, Steve. Please, Robert. Thank you. Good morning, by the way. Yeah, I'm a volunteer. First and foremost, always will be. But I've been working down on the greenway for about three years now. And it's... Robert. Robert? Yes. Excuse me, would you join us at the main table? Certainly. Thank you. But as time's gone on, I've decided that I need to get some more help down there on a daily basis. And so I'm looking to create a volunteer group of people, find a few good core people that would help participate on a pretty regular basis like I am myself. And then, of course, start introducing and asking the neighbors around Prince Memorial Greenway from the west end and from the Alla Park and even from Sonoma around the Prince Park as well. And get people to start volunteering a little bit of their time. So I've asked for some help to see if I can't generate some interest on that part. And the idea is to establish that volunteer group will always with an educational thought and always be learning something about the creek. A lot of the creek, there's a lot of trash on a daily basis, and that needs to be taken care of on a regular basis. But I'd like to focus on other things besides trash. There's a lot of restoration that needs to happen along the creek, up above the railing and of course below the railing. I think it would be to the benefit if we actually start cleaning that up and making it more presentable so that we can actually attract people down there. And the kind of people I'm talking about is just neighbors of course and then visitors that visit Santa Rosa, bicyclists, runners, bikers, just generate some interest down there but we've got to clean it up a little bit. And I'm obviously in asking for some help down there. I passionately feel like this is a critical area to the city of downtown and I need some help, so. Carol, would you like to add something? Dedicated volunteer working with Robert? So Robert is one of the nicest and most modest people. I have the pleasure of knowing and there's a lot to the existing story that I don't think you have shared. So I'll just prompt you with some questions, if I might. Do you have any existing city partners? City partners, I've got city parks and recreation and of course Kyle and his team are definitely people that come in and help. But it's very, it's somewhat sporadic. Obviously they're busy doing other things. It's not just about Prince Memorial Greenway for them. For me it is, in this particular case. Of course, ultimately I'd like to be able to participate in some of the other projects around the city as well. But right now this is very time consuming so I'm spending a great deal of time down there right now. But I have also in recently, about a year ago I had a gentleman that worked across the street, Jordan and he came in as a volunteer and has been working side by side with me. That has been a huge help. Before the conversation is over today, I'd love if you shared some of your aspirations, some of the brainstorming that is already in the works. Well, the brainstorming, I've obviously had some time on my head to think about things, but there's so much down there on the creek and it's so central to downtown. There's arts programs that we have already established down there and then we can talk about establishing new arts programs. There's, obviously like I said, the educational aspect of things. The idea of bringing some neighborhood festivals down there, some park get-togethers, barbecues, to generate some good vibes and start using our park system in the way I think it was always intended to be. Like I said, all the exercise aspects of downtown that you can use to go anywhere you want from that starting point. So you're inviting people to come down and park their vehicles and then take their bikes or take their runs and take their walks and they can go for miles and miles and miles. It's an incredible dynamic place down there. I get to meet people every single day. And from visitors, from people that are living down there, from people that are neighbors, that are walking down the creek, it's an incredible place. But I think we need to also try to encourage some businesses to start participating in the creek. And just bring awareness to the creek. I think it's very not known, even amongst citizens of Santa Rosa. We need to bring some awareness and generate that. And I'm trying to come up with ideas to help promote that. Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. This is tremendous. And the spirit in which you're working, I think it's very consistent with things we've talked about here, getting more businesses involved along the creek, getting more eyes on the creek, supporting all those runners and bikers and people that want to just walk along there and feel comfortable walking along the beautiful creek, the artwork and everything, all the effort that's been put in. So thank you, it's fantastic. Are you going to organize work parties for more volunteers on days other than Saturday? That's often gonna make that. You know, I want to work with small core people and we just start ticking away at some of the areas up above the creek, especially for right now in order to create a more inviting creek. As far as we're just, I'm basically just talking the 1.6 mile, it's round trip. So it's basically 8th, 10th long. And so your experience down there, I want it to be a positive one. And so I am trying to generate some interest from people that would be willing to volunteer some time. And I would truly like to have it as neighbors that are from the neighborhood that are adjacent to that area. I think it would be good, but I'll take anybody at this point, you know. Robert separate, go ahead, go ahead, please. So this is, this is absolutely wonderful citizen involvement like this. I have some comments and some suggestions because I work, I'm a private consultant, but I work in a regulatory environment. Whose jurisdiction is this segment? Is it the cities or is it Santa Rosa water? Good question. I constantly come up with that issue, not knowing exactly whose jurisdiction is whose when it comes to things, but I pretty much look at it as the cities for the most part. Obviously, when I get down into the creek, I always look at the creek department when it's on the inside of the railing, but above the railing, I always look as the city parks department. Water, there's certain individuals or entities that I never really see that much. So if I'm leading up to a couple of things. So you've seen the highway signs where segments of the highway are adopted by a certain organization, they have to go through a qualification process with Caltrans to do that. The county has a similar adoption for cleanups and there's a process for that too. The city manager here in Santa Rosa, city manager Smith has a beautification program she's trying to implement in the city. And this would fall right into what she's trying to do. So suggestions that I have is that you actually set up a meeting with city manager Smith and talk about this and see what kind of support that she can give and help you cut through red tape or anything else like that. Because this is along the lines of what she wants to do. And I believe she's looking for groups and volunteers and leaders like you. The other thing is, you gotta figure out who the jurisdiction is because you'll be working in their jurisdiction and if there's a way that we can adopt a creek it would probably go through that jurisdiction. And the adoption would actually, signage would give you credit and would, I don't know, just reinforce your effort. And the last thing I just wanna mention is they used to be called the clean water lines. I'm not sure if it's still called the clean water lines because it's underneath the Russian river keepers now and they do this periodic stuff. And they might have resources for you to help you in this endeavor. So I just wanted to throw out all these potential suggestions and things that you might look into to continue your effort. Thank you. Well, this is the idea is to start talking to people and start getting information like this. And I will absolutely follow up on some of those recommendations. Thank you. Good ideas. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you. I'd love to hear about this idea. I'd love to see it become a real active volunteer program that is kind of self-sustaining and that volunteers are excited about it and they get other people to volunteer. And I'm just, I'm thinking about a small volunteer program that I know, well, it's not even a program. It's a requirement at Rosen University Prep of the high school students that they do community service. And I had been a mentor there. I need to re-op, I haven't re-op lately, but I need to do that. But there's, all of those students learn about community service and have a commitment by being a student at RUP to do community service. And there's sort of the default things that they choose when they, because they don't know what their choices are and they just kind of default into one thing or another. But you talked about the educational aspect of it and getting high school students, even if they don't live along Santa Rose Creek themselves, but to see it as part of their city and part of what they'll be responsible for soon as adults. Well, that's the idea is start getting people to interact with the creek and start making a connection is what I think you're referring to. And I always felt like we could look at the schools and start bringing students down there from the case to the middle school to the high school to the college. There's something there for everyone as far as an educational idea. I mean, I always look at arts, science, if you're looking at plants, the animals that are down there, you can go basically in a direction you want with an education. You can go on Walden Pond if you want to. I mean, why aren't our creeks or Walden Pond? All right, that's a little, philosophical, but that's all right. I mean, like I can have aspirations too. And I think if you're looking at the schools, the idea that you might actually have a group, something that has a name other than Robert Ash, which is a fine name, wonderful name. But if a school can say, oh yes, we want our students to consider Prince Memorial Greenway Care Group or whatever you call it for their community service, right? And then that is a, there are groups of parents and administrators who, and then there's just the students themselves who would hear about it. Well, we are talking about establishing a name of friends for Prince Memorial Greenway. Yeah, great. And that's, I think, pretty much what we've said about it. So you need to take a little TikTok thing and get it out there and... Well, we're also talking about, yeah, getting out there on Facebook and doing all these kinds of things. Like I said, bringing awareness to it. And we're at the very basic input stage of this idea. Yeah, I think this whole creek could very much be a very center point to establish who we are as citizens of Santa Rosa. And it just will help define the creek a little bit and bring some attention to not just Santa Rosa Creek and Prince Memorial Creek, but all the creeks. Right, right. Thank you. Thank you. Just one thing real quick. So just be careful as you organize because my ability will become an issue that you're gonna have to deal with. So just keep out. I'm sorry. No, no, I'm sorry. Anything else? Thank you for all that you do and you as well, girl. Cause I know that you both are like, I see pictures of cleanups. You two are there. So I was curious, you said that, you know, you'd like to start to move into doing something more than just trash pickup when you're talking about like, you know, cleaning up the creeks. Yes. What is the level of trash that we're talking about? I mean, is it, you know, is it kids with the beer bottles? Is it lazy boy furniture shares? I mean, what are we talking about? It's pretty much all of the above. Yeah. I mean, I'll pick couches out of the creek and pull them up to an area where we can take it away immediately. You know, cushions, clothing, bottles, cans. And I'm assuming that this is in areas of the creek where there aren't really eyes on the creek. Most of the creek doesn't have eyes on the creek right now. You know, the more people we invite, there'll be more eyes down there. And I think the originally the idea was is that the business would be facing that direction and there would be therefore eyes on the creek. Fortunately, it looks like we've got the apartment building going on in the cannery, which will obviously bring eyes on the creek. But the more people we can get up and down the creek, the more people that are constantly there, it was like the peace officer that we spoke with yesterday, Tim Barrett, he brought up the more people down there, the less things will happen. And I think just having more people down, they will start to bring awareness to the creek's health. And people will start to pick up and change their habits a little bit. And I have seen over the last three years, I have seen a change from what it was when I first started down there. And what it is today, it's considerably better. But I still come up with approximately two to three 50 gallon bags per day of debris that I can take to a location where it can be taken away. And I'm basically not even going into the creek itself. If I see something that's really blatant, I'll jump over the railing and grab it. Basically, for all intents purposes, the time I spend down there, I'm just above the creek, above the railing on the walkway. So that's how much debris is down there. It's so discouraging, because especially when we're talking about getting kids involved, and this is just a personal anecdote, we do the Wednesday night market and we have kids that help clean up. The fastest way to turn off a kid's volunteer spirit is to hand them a bag and a grabber and go, hey, come and learn about the creeks, pick up some trash. So some way, there has to be, when we're talking about education, bringing the kids into the creeks just to be present, to show and learn about their vital importance before you hand them the grabber and the bag. Sort of get them acclimated to why this is so important, why it's so critical that we not dump the couch down in the creek. And hopefully, from there, build a spirit of wanting to like, hey, you're not learning this really cool thing about this creek, you know what? Let's get this bottle out of here. And you'll be, hopefully, we can see them take that initiative on their own, even when they're not a part of an organized clean up effort. Maybe they might be down there and say, oh, you know what, I learned this really cool thing and this, maybe I can throw this in the trash. So I don't know how that works or how we get that to happen, but when we're talking about partnering with schools or other... Kyle, do you want to just talk for a minute about how the effort's going on right now regarding cleanups and other in the schools and so on? Perhaps mentioned Stephanie. Yeah, so we do contract with an environmental educator named Stephanie Lennox and her business is called by Richmond. And she interacts with, I want to say last year it was roughly about 7,500 kids throughout the school year. Right now she's out doing summer programs with some of the schools that was out with her. Usually the way that works is there will be one or two classroom sessions teaching the kids about the creek and the interconnectability with the storm drain system, trying to highlight, you know, saying it's similar to why you don't leave a bottle in the creek, why you don't leave it in the gutter to get swept out of the creek. And often those are, you know, correlated with some cleanup aspect at the end of that creek lesson. So there are efforts to try and get kids out onto the creek. There are creek education efforts, but I agree, I want to start highlighting more of the just fun nature and the wildlife nature and why we have that event on the 27th. To try not to focus on trash, but to focus on the creek as well. A lot of schools near creeks. Yeah, and there are lots of schools near creeks and we usually keep those kids, like we do work with Rosalind University Prep, the middle school, but we take them to Rosalind Creek a lot of times. And Piner's high, we take them to Piner Creek. So we take them to all sorts of parts of the creek, but I do think I also, with my program, would like to expand on some of the more wildlife nature things along the creeks to increase interest. That's what we all like, right? Exactly. Good point, Terry. Thank you again. Can I, you had brought up the ideas to actually start trying to restore some of the planter areas up above on the walkway. Again, therefore creating a little bit more of a positive environment and finding some group and even asking some of the students to come down there and help out on that. I think the idea is just give them something to actually put their hands on and be physically involved. When you've been involved in something, I think you walk away with a better respect and a little bit more awareness. And I don't necessarily wanna use them as a workhorse per se, but I want them to put their hands on it and interact with the creek in a way that we currently don't right now. Right. And I would think that that interacting with the creek is golden. Interacting with someone's Cheeto bag is not necessarily the most uplifting. Well, it's just been, that's what the purpose is. Most every time I've seen, and I may be wrong, but most of the time I see groups go down, they're picking up trash. And I just like to see something other than picking up trash. I totally agree. Absolutely. Like the making of things. So hands on, for sure, is a way to get people involved. We used to say, what is it? Dirty hands, open minds. In architecture education, as we used to say that, at least the ones that this class is I taught. The idea being that if you get your, if you are physically and intellectually and creatively involved, and it's the creative aspect too, right? Where you might be, you might be cleaning, you might be fixing, but you might be making something entirely new, right? So like planting and then tending to something that you're growing, for example. Some of the artwork down there is, isn't that a community art? Those are community art. What's the name of that group? I keep, I read it, Art Start, right? Like, you know, there's more places for art and young people could be making it. And then it makes me, it does make me think about the liability issues, but they aren't insurmountable. Well, there's a committee we're gonna be following that's a wonderful effort. You can tell there's great interest here and a lot of ideas. And I'm very happy about the committee and your wonderful suggestions. May I have a personal anecdote? Yeah, yeah, please. So I've been on the Park and Rec Board for I think nine years now. And my mentor was a gentleman by the name of Stan Gao, who was very instrumental preceded Robert in the Creek cleanup. My first volunteer effort was cleaning up Santa Rosa Creek where I met some of the most influential and important people in my life, picking up garbage, weeding. It led to my life at the rural cemetery. Thanks to our mutual friend, Bill Montgomery, who I was working with one day in the sunshine volunteering at Santa Rosa Creek. So the potentials are limitless. The engagement with the city of Santa Rosa is incredible and the people you meet are the best. Thank you. Well put. A couple of us are involved in working on this effort with Robert and committee members can participate as volunteers. We just can't discuss committee work if we are in volunteer settings, I will say, because of Brown Act environments. But anyway, I hope the efforts will continue. We're definitely, I think this is a model project. I look forward, thank you. And Robert, just tremendous dedication. I mean, going there for a couple of hours before a work day, it's impressive. Every day. Fantastic. Yeah, well, so thank you. And I just wanted to see if there are any members of the public wishing to make a comment. Yes, sir. It's great to hear what you're doing. And thank you so much for all that effort. And also Mr. Spomber. I do hope that you'll also come to Roseland Creek. As Ms. Liptak has mentioned, we have a make a difference day event in October, the third Saturday in October. We're doing it for over a dozen years there. And we've got lots of volunteers that are right there that live near that creek. And I think you'll get a chance to meet some folks who rarely had had much interaction with the city agencies until annexation was completed six years ago. And now the Roseland University Prep School has been built there. The youth are getting an opportunity to do some of this work about, we had a greenhouse on one property by the city demolished it. And one of the things that I think the children, especially need to see is that the suggestions that they make and the things that they're doing are actually validated by the adults. And if you come out there and you get a chance to work with those teams that are working with us on what we're doing, you'll find that almost all the things you've talked about can be realized. Typically without much jurisdiction or agency support, no one's got any money. So it's all about trying to do as Mr. Saunders said, getting the youth to see if they're not just there to take that keto bag. This is about learning about nature and all that stuff. That was really embraced all that much in the past. And this committee that Mr. Rabinowitz has got going has been able to at least get that on the agenda and to see all the employees involved is great. Make a different state, look it up. It's a national effort. We've been doing it in Roseland for at least 12, 13 years. Third Saturday of October. And good luck. Good job, Blake. On the one last comment, about 25 years ago, got a grant for creating a creek curriculum to bring teachers down with their classes to the creek. And we have training programs of the teachers with a hydrologist and biologist to give them background information about the creek and its natural environment. And that went on for a period of time. And then we ran into issues regarding the challenges of busing kids from their schools to the sites. And so things didn't continue very long, but I still have that creek curriculum on my bottom shelf in my bookcase. So I think about the high schools. I think about the junior college too, because there are a lot of great professors and classes in that university as well. So anyway, there's a lots of it. Absolutely. So again, thank you, Robert. And we look forward to seeing the fruits of this. Thank you. Do you know that you secretly gave a report to the city called Creek Skating, to the Creek Skating for Kids with Strawberry School right 15 years ago, somewhere on the file. Check it out. Thank you. Okay. Did you get my emails yesterday? Yes. So our next item is the- Thank you again. Thank you. North Point Commerce, simple analysis. What is the title here? Design review of the North Point Commerce building. Staff, why don't you correct me what we're- North Point Commerce. Sorry? You had it, North Point Commerce. Okay. Thank you. And thank you for the patience of our applicants. It's all good. Great stuff. So we have a presentation by our planers. Hi, good morning. I'm the project planner for North Point Commerce Center, located at, well, there's four parcels here, but there's three addresses. It's 1408, 1416, and 1420 Thunderbolt Way. So the project proposal is to construct an industrial building called the North Point Commerce Center. It's gonna be approximately 114,884 square feet on an over a six-acre site with four parcels with accesses on both Kingfisherway and Thunderbolt Way. This is the, oh, it looks like there was a star there. I don't know where it went, but yeah. So as you can see here on this aerial view, the surrounding areas, there's some residential neighborhoods to the south of the site, and then there's industrial and a business park on both the east and west sides of the parcel, and then there's some more various residential uses to the north of the parcels. Oh, there it is. That's interesting, okay, good to know. No, didn't do enough for that one. And this is just kind of a more zoomed in aerial view of the parcels, and you can kind of see a little bit of the history there of where the former airstrip military airway used to be. The general plan land use designation is general industry and the zoning district is general industrial. And again, the surrounding parcels are general industry, also zoned residential, various residential. Oh, and business park. There's the star again. This is the proposed site plan. Just for reference, the blue portions of the site plan are the stormwater retention areas. The red lining here, I believe there's some streetlights that are proposed here at the south with a maximum height of 16 feet. And the green areas are the landscaped areas. This is the proposed landscape plan. To the south here, right at the edge is the eight foot, or proposed eight foot tall poured in place concrete sound wall with proposed vegetation, such as like climbing vines. I have spoke with the applicant and their team regarding just flexibility about the sound wall. There seems to be a little bit of back and forth on whether or not we would want one. So there is flexibility there. And yeah, we'll wait for your comments regarding the sound wall as well. Some of the proposed trees in the landscape are some Chinese pistache, coast live oaks, strawberry trees, Western red buds, dwarf magnolias, and some maiden hair trees. There's also a list of, more detailed list of the plants that are proposed. Some that I have listed down here are the California Lilac, the Boston Ivy, Purple Sage, and the Sunset of Manzanita to just name a few examples. And the proposed sound wall is approximately 55 feet from the creek flow line, and the minimum setback distance is three. So they do meet that setback requirement. This is the proposed north elevation of the building. As you can see here, there has the most, this will be the view from North Point Parkway. The West elevation is mainly just also windows and entryways, the South elevation, which faces the creek is where the truck bays are, which is also why the sound wall was suggested to help kind of tone down some of the noise that might occur from loading and unloading trucks for the residential areas that back up behind those parcels. And the East elevation is, there's not necessarily, I didn't see any windows or anything, it was mostly just doorways for Egress and Ingress. So the Planning and Economic Development Department requests that the Waterways Advisory Committee provide comments and direction for the proposed commerce center located at 1416 and 1420 Thunderbolt Way. And this is, oh, there we go. And this is my contact information if you have any questions. Thank you. And also our applicant, Jose McNeil, is here if you have any questions directed towards the applicant as well. I'd like to make any comments at this point. Sure. One, thank you for hosting the meeting. The sound wall is kind of an interesting thing. I mean, it's, we went through our preliminary design review to the Planning Commission and some of the comments for the residents were, can you put a sound wall in? And we said, sure, you know, we could do that. And then from Waterways for our last meeting, that's a heritage one, so why are you gonna do a sound wall? Is there a sound wall? Heritage doesn't have one, but this one does. And I said, I'm open, just tell me whatever you want. And actually the public comments have gotten, we've gotten some saying, oh, I hope there's a sound wall and others saying, I hope there isn't a sound wall. So, Sam, I think that's the only point where like just tell us what you want, we'll do it. If you can go back to the site plan, I'll go through a couple of things on it. One moment, Sam. Yeah, just a, yeah, that'll be number six, yeah, that'll be great. Oh, I'm just gonna, I'll be back, okay. Yeah, so you can see there's a little slice kind of in the building originally supposed to be rectangle, like all good industrial buildings have to be, creativity in our midst. There's a stormwater easement comes through there. So that's why that slice is there. But I actually think it adds a little kind of fun to the building, you know, and that it's not just a rectangle like everything else. So we did that. We had some questions about, you know, who are the tenants? Well, we don't know yet because it's the speculative building. We do have interest from several. Some are more office-y, I'll say, that may or may not be located very close by. And if that was the case, the truck bays in the back would be, if they take half the building up, one of these bays would be kind of eliminated and probably just additional parking. And so we just have one half of the building that would have most likely some trucks. And the trucks here are not gonna be, you know, in my mind, they're not gonna be, you know, frequent, it's gonna be kind of a delivery in and out, some light manufacturing. That's kind of what this area has been, is really light manufacturing, not heavy logistics turnover. But again, it's been well received in Santa Rosa, the vacancy for industrial right now is close to 0%. This area is impacted a little bit by the PG&E situation of power. If everybody's aware of that, they've come out and said, we have no power for you until maybe 2025. This site does have power. And so we're kind of unique and it will probably be one of the only buildings under construction if everything goes well in 2024. So I think it's gonna add to the base for industrial. It's gonna attract some other jobs or move some people into this for some jobs in this area. It fits within what the design guidelines are. And, you know, we want to be good neighbors. So that's why the sound wall was proposed or not proposed and whatever we want it, we can do with that, we will. And again, as it is now, we're gonna green screen the back of it with lines or climbing type of things so that it's not just a start wall. I hate those as well. So that's the idea. So I'm open for any questions. Thank you. So this is the time for the committee to ask questions to staff or the applicant. Any members have questions I'd like to ask? We'll get to our recommendations in a little bit. Yes, please. All right. Let's go. For staff, are you related to Claire? I'm not. Just go. On the disclosure form, it's pretty much blank. So I don't know if I have any conflict of interest with architects or civil engineers or anything. Also, the obvious... The owner. The owner. So that's the thing in all of this industrial but they're not gonna operate there. No. Okay. So I just wanted to point that out. On the agenda, when I clicked on attachment four, it came up to site photos. So it was duplicated. So the neighborhood context map was in the agenda. And then, and this is a current, a current reoccurring issue that I have with the watershed map that's included on here. I mean, it's huge and tiny. And I have no idea where the project is located. It really needs to be zoomed in and blown up to actually show that. So these are just comments I have for the planner on this. If there's very little mental manufacturing going on inside and it's just trucks coming in and out, has there been problems with sound on the other facilities? My understanding from the comments from the public. Yeah. That's where this is generated from. Okay. So it was, boy, if we could have a sound wall, that would be beneficial. Not that there was excessive sound, although there was one comment about Amy's kitchen a little bit further up, and that was more of smells, I think. Yeah. That's a good smell though. Yeah, sometimes. But that was the whole idea. That's how that sound wall came up. When we just went, tell us what you want. You know, it's, yeah. So, yeah, it seems unnecessary to me. Has a noise study been conducted? We did a study of, I think we did do a sound study, but again, the decibels that are going to come out of, it depends on the volume of trucks. But they can, the noise study will. Yeah, no, we mean. We estimate for that and then there's a distance to the residential. So, we're far away from it. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's a significant distance across from our backyard to the creek and then from the creek to the backyards. But again, it's being overly cautious, I guess I'll say to neighbors, because you want to be a good neighbor and you don't want to have a lot of sound. But at the same time, from the last meeting we had, I understand the waterways you want to have that view. So it's... Yeah, if you were a freeway, we'd say, okay. But eyes on the creek is really important to us. Okay, thank you, Steve. I think there's a question, Carol. Yeah, first for staff, are we going to be in this room moving forward? Do you know? Because if we are, if you could put the board closer to the monitor rather than far away, my eyes are getting old and I'd really appreciate being able to see. Thank you so much. To the applicant, any other sound walls existing on that stretch? That's a great question. And no, Viabi has a, I think they have a chain link wall with lines. And that's really what we're proposing on Heritage, which is the one we were in about a month ago, I think. This one, just again, it was generated by the residents, one resident actually. And I just went, tell us what you want. And my second question, which may or may not be appropriate. In a perfect world, do you see your two projects, the one you presented last month and this one growing up at the same time, if possible? Yes. Okay. That's what I would like. Out of our control. Are there any restrictions out of my mind? I'm not sure who can answer this, but are there any restrictions on operating at night such that the sound wall would be needed because trucks are coming in, going in the middle of the night? Or does that all depend on the tenant? It depends on the tenant. And I think you could, because Viabi actually operates 24-7 I think. So there's activity there already. Construction-wise though, sorry. Yeah, construction-wise, no. Right, I'm thinking about operating. And the reason I ask is I live right across the creek. So I'm one of those residents. My house is in the picture there that was shown in the second slide, I think. And across from us, there's no sound wall now, which I really like because it opens up our view a little bit. I mean, we look at the back of a warehouse. Occasionally we'll hear the beeping of a truck or a forklift backing up, but never at night, which is really a pleasure. We didn't know moving in, of course, and it probably depends on the tenants. So I was, the mixed feelings you expressed if do we do a sound wall or not are exactly what's going through my head because my thinking is if there's a tenant that has trucks going through all night, definitely need a sound wall. But barring that, I really like the lack of a sound wall across from us because it does create a sense of more eyes on the creek. We don't see a lot of people over there, but we see some. And it sounds like in this design with parking in the back, we'll be seeing more potentially, right? Is people parked back there? Which I like because it does, again, create that people presence and a feeling of safety and community and it's much better than looking at a solid wall. So, I don't know if, I guess, can you build a wall contingent on who the tenant is? And that sounds like it's asking a lot, but that's almost where I would go. And again, I would add that it wouldn't just be the wall. We would have, we have green there as well. Right. And again, it's not what the best solution. It is a solution that kind of marries the two. Right. And for sound itself, we can do sound studies. And if you put a sound wall up, then the sound might go further away because it becomes an amphitheater type thing. And then the neighbors two miles away will go, wait, what does that sound? But again, it's not gonna be, it's not a big logistics center of 300,000 square feet with 24 trucks moving in and out every hour. It's a little bit less intense than that. But again, it depends on the tenant and the people that we've been talking to, hopefully they'll step up. It will change the environment a little bit more towards a business center type thing with more autos than trucks. Sounds great. Until that gets done, I just worry every night. Well, I thought about that amphitheater effect or if that's what you called it, because I'm far enough down. We don't have any sound walls, as I mentioned, near our house. So if there's one down here, is it gonna reflect all the sound to us? So anyway, I think, yeah. Get some office-y types, like you mentioned. That'd be great. I don't know if you read the news, but office is not very good right now. Yeah. Just for clarity, you would be the only sound wall on that stretch. Yeah, so that's kind of interesting because sound bounces, right? And it's not water. It's not like you're containing water. It's still going to- Actually, it's a little like water with the waves, but that's a whole different question. Different question, different question. So, okay, thank you. Any other questions by- Yes, many others. So, I mean, we do this apparently. I mean, like, this is how it works. We look at things project by project. You happen to have two projects that are really, I mean, if we were able to think of them as related, right, and we are waterways advisory. So we should be thinking about the creek in its entirety, not about the frontage on the creek of a, not only about the frontage on the creek of a specific project. And I think this really is interesting because one of the projects has a sound wall as a response to a resident who had- Well, also, if I could jump in. Also, the other one is oriented, if you remember how it's oriented, the truck walls are- And why are the truck walls, do they have to be in the back? I don't know. And I know that a lot of workers have already gone into that and you have reasons for that, but we also have to be looking forward and asking ourselves, what is trucking going to be like after 2030, for example? And when the state moves away from- They could be really quiet. It could be quiet. Well, it could be quieter than it is now for sure, right? So are we mitigating for sound problems of the early 2020s when in fact we're looking at the late 2020s and 30s and beyond, where it's going to be a different situation? And I- Great point. Yeah, great point. And the office thing itself is like, how do we fill those offices? Because people, if you're doing an office job, many people can work remotely, at least part of the time, right? Which reduces office space. I just, I want to come back to the creek I'm looking at the watershed map and the big Rs that just run all the way down the creek and say, what's going to happen to that creek aspirationally for us in the next 10 years? And what does that mean for the way we build on the north side of the creek? Well, that brings up something in my mind because in the best of all worlds, if I were working in a facility, I would want to be able to go out for lunch and sit by the creek on a picnic bench. Like it, right? Walk along. Get on your break. And I know that's not exactly, it's not what's before us, but the creeks are an amenity. It's sort of, I don't want to get into the recommendations because we'll get to that in a minute, but I asked myself that question about same thing you're bringing up, the valley of the creek itself. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, did I interrupt? No, no, I'm just, I'm going to about to go into the loop. I end up anywhere. I see the same thing over with slightly different words. So I'll stop. I don't have a question. Okay. Please. Oh yeah. Auburn. Suzanne, you said something about the flow line and the setbacks, but you've kind of always operated with top of the bank. Yes. So, yeah. And I did actually ask the applicant up this morning. So if you want to. Yeah, we're going to conform to whatever the minimum is, but it's, you know, if, I don't know if we can go back to that site plan. I'll show you one of the interesting things on how things develop is over time, where the, and I'll use the term back fence for the back of the parcels has kind of varied. And so we're going to conform to the current, you know, kind of fence to, you can see where it'd be obvious to have there. That's the same line that we're going to hit. And so again, we're not imposing any further back. We're just trying to make it uniform. So yeah. Okay. But okay. Okay. How many more parcels out here are left to be built out? There's a cross the way to the north. There are two, there's a, it's kind of a parking lot. Let me clarify specifically along the creek. None. This is West. Yeah, that was West. But a number of pre-existing. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you can see, this is, walk up here. This is more of an office. See, this is Northrop Grumman that's here. So this is business park going this way. And then going this way is industrial and up this way is industrial. This is the old JDS Uniface campus that everybody remembers that when that started. So it's been at the obvious own, this parcel, this was going to be part of their expansion. And then the other one as well. And there's a corner, there's another parcel, we're away from the creek, but those are the last three out here. Thank you. So. Any other questions? Yes, I have one. Well, it's kind of a comment. So I don't know if we, do we separate? We'll get to comments. Well, so then I'll phrase it as a question. That. Would it be possible as an intellectual exercise to think about it as the creek, not being the back side? Sure. And again, I was going to say, what our goal is with our tenants, this is the plan. I mean, you got to start somewhere. And so here's the plan. If the, if the tendency becomes more office oriented, more employee oriented, the idea of creating areas outside, especially with access to the creek, 100% agree with. We've done that. Every project I can, but we have to hit the market for what, what is it zoned for? And what is the, what is the typical use going to be? And so that's where we're at now. If, if we look at it back, we have in the back, we have some parking areas back there. And I always laugh about it on the front side of the building, front side of the creek. We have parking in the back of the building for cars. What that typically runs into, intended here is I always call that area where trucks and cars collide, because that's where any accident between a truck and a car will occur, is when you pass your cars in the back there. But what that typically then becomes, typically or sometimes becomes, depending on the number of employees, we have to show, you know, certain number of parking spots per office, square footage than per industrial. These will probably not be used for that. Again, I'm projecting and stuff. And so then this becomes an area of outside activity for the employees, where we can be turned into kind of the, the picnic benches and those type of things so they can enjoy this type of view. And we're open to that. Again, our response for the sound wall or the not sound wall, is just driven by public comment and trying to be responsive to that. That's all. Thank you. Any questions before we move to public comment and then come back to us for a recommendation? Any questions, any comments by the public? Yes, sir. My name is Dwayne DeWitt. I'm from Roseland. I've been on this creek all my life, various times. Sound walls are graffiti magnets, excuse me. So I would not recommend a wall in any way, shape or form. If you want green infrastructure, you could do chain link fence with vines. I would be really hopeful that you would adopt the city's approach for alternative transportation. Bicycles haven't been mentioned at all yet. There's supposed to be a bike path on both sides of Roseland Creek per previous plans in the past that are aspirational. Let's take the burden off of this applicant. You shouldn't have to spend any extra money because some people believe there might be a little extra sound. You should really work towards this being as natural an area as possible with as many opportunities for bicyclists and pedestrians to come down the creek walk to get to this place to work. Do it in such a way that the workers would feel nice having a natural area for their breaks. The residents nearby wouldn't have something that's obtrusive or ugly. You gotta avoid graffiti. This is key to any of this stuff. Any kind of wall that you put up is just gonna get tagged and become problematic. So far down the street, if you remember on the picture going to the east, right there where you come off Stony Point Road on the creek, the church put in a fence that's metal and spaced and then it has greenery nearby. So you could do something really lovely and natural and it was talked about stormwater retention. You could work on having the sway bells and the different things that the city has stated would be helpful along Burbank Avenue further to the east which was the first scenic roadway out there in West Santa Rosa. This is an optimal project. They're gonna move forward at the old optical coding site and make it all better. So let's go with him, getting what he's gonna get done and not cost him more money by putting up something that'll be ugly and attractive to new sense. Go with something really nice, really green. I'm gonna keep bringing the green thing back to this committee all the time. Thank you kindly. Thank you. Okay, this is a time for the committee members to weigh in on recommendations. Terry, would you like to start off? Sure, thanks again. Good to see you again. I'm gonna echo some of what Mr. DeWitt has offered. Keeping things as natural as possible is the goal. I don't see a purpose for a sound wall. I really love the concept of referring to the creek site as not the backside, but as a beautiful amenity to the workers who'll be at the building. And when you treat it as that sort of back area, that's where, well, the dumpsters are in the back and the, you know what I mean? It's that's, you want to make that something that is not the also ran, the also part, but an integral part of it. So if we can keep that in mind, keep it in mind, the idea is that we want to attract something other than nuisance, right? We want to have eyes on the creek. We don't want people back there feeling like this is not a safe environment. Keep it open. Keep access. I think it'll be great. Kevin. What he said. Which is what he said. Which is what he said, yeah. I think. And then she said, so. Yes, right. At the risk of saying the same thing to slightly different words. I think as an advisory board, we're putting forward some principles that we would love to see incorporated in as many projects as possible. And I think green is one. Eyes on the creek is absolutely one. Anything we can do with, you know, having people eating lunch out back along the creek. I think if we had, yeah, rather than it being the backside with the trucks, if there was a way that the trucks were around the side and somehow there was, I mean, I'm almost envisioning like a little plaza in the back where people are eating lunch. This project would be a huge hero, I think, for the entire neighborhood if it brought that kind of innovation. So I think that's, maybe that's one of the principles too, is eyes on the creek is much greenery as much people presence and pushing them because of the residents. And again, I work, I live there, so I have a special interest in this project, but pushing that good noise around to the side or around the front or whatever as much as possible. And I think ideally then no sound wall because it really is nice to look across and have it open. And rather than sort of a dead zone there, where it's just a wall, even though I love the idea of the greenery, the vines, that will be a big gain. When we look across at Northrop Grumman, we will look at the industrial wall, but it's set back. So it doesn't seem imposing. That said, it's much nicer to look at the trees that are on both sides. So anyway, I think that's some of the principles, I think that I would support. Thanks. Thank you. I have pulled up Google map of the area. I'm looking at the airfield and part of me says, wow, this used to be agricultural land. And it's like, wow, this used to be an airfield again. God knows what all still under there. So it's a challenging area. I want to echo my hope that there's no sound wall because it would produce a potential precedent not only to future construction in the area, but also to pre-existing construction in the area who might say sound wall, but what they're actually trying to do is produce a barrier to the creek. So I would love to see that open. One thing that has not been mentioned is your use of native plants. California lilac is cianthus. Many of your plantings are native. The bees and butterflies say thank you. And please keep at it. Keep at it. Low water use. Make a super highway for our flying friends. Thank you so much. I sleep up. Thank you. Following up on what my colleagues have said, the idea that the south elevation of the building and the project, south elevation, and not just, so the elevation, of course, is talking about the building. We're talking about the creek because we're waterways advisory. And if that were an opportunity as important as whatever the North Point Parkway elevation is with signage, et cetera, but generally speaking, if projects saw the part of the project that is adjacent to the creek as an opportunity, I mean, what is it, a 68 page report for the biology stuff? Because you're required to do that and it's done very well. I'm learning a lot when I read them. But it makes the creek as part of the natural environment like something you have to deal with and that you're constrained in what you can do. And so then that's how we deal with it as these constraints. But if we thought of it as opportunity and then the constraints would be met because we would be the things we would be caring about sort of as a starting point, there's a lot. I mean, it's a big project and you actually have a lot of space to work with. So the creek is an opportunity. And thank you for considering that, that's my comment. So I think we used to say they don't use it to hitting more as a paradigm shift. And that's kind of with this back lot, front lot, all things. And so I really, you're really stating it really well. And the path is a bike path, right? So it's in the master plan to connect all the way out to Lano from Stony Point. And we're trying to encourage more bike riding and alternative forms of transportation. And so I'm suggesting to you is that look at incorporating this bike path. You can get off the Stony Point and you don't have to go on North Point. You can go right on this bike path and then you can pull in potentially into yours if there was a way to do that. So I'm just suggesting that maybe you look along with Vick's comments, you look at incorporating a way that people could use bicycles to come to work and they'd have an access point that of course you'd have to be concerned with security and stuff like that, but there's things you could do. And then there would be an area where the bikes would could be parked and maybe it's a break area. And then you're reaching out to that, you know, the creek, the alternative transportation, everything else. That's what my suggestion is and no, no sound wall. If it goes before, if you have to do that, I'll make comments at the planning commissioner or whatever about that, you know, individually. Okay, thank you. Why are you looking at me? You're looking at me. You're looking at me. Oh yeah. So when I was, when I went to graduate school on urban planning, I was very inspired by a book called Design with Nature by Ian McCarg. Ian McCarg? Oh, good one. And it was about how when you're designing cities, you start with the natural environment and then you play on the urban environment based on the natural environments, context that it provides. A little idealistic in today's world, and yes, I still think it's relevant, even in an urbanized area. So yeah, we start with a creek and the natural environment of the creek and the amenities that it provides, not just environmentally, but to us. And that's what we're doing here is to try to take advantage of the nature we have and enjoy it and preserve it and improve it wherever possible. And so, yes, I think to the best of your abilities, I know you work in your own context and challenges and land development, but taking advantage of that creek side, it may not feel like it is important to the types of uses right now that are being potentially, you know, the most viable economically, but in the longer term, I think there are advantages to the creek side location. Fencing it, you're gonna do it. The sound world seems totally unnecessary. So I know you're looking for an answer. This is our recommendation and answer. Please, no sound wall. But then the question is, well, what do you do? Rod iron, I think is, I think more attractive than chain link. Some of the other developments have rod iron. Taking advantage of that back part though, right by the creek and allowing some of that land potentially to be used for, like I said, potentially some picnic tables or other kinds of, you know, more friendly amenities to the workers would be an enhancement. So I have a really radical idea of putting in a gate on the other side of the fence. You could lock it for now, that's fine. Do whatever you want with the gate or idea, but somehow taking advantage of that area, landscaping, yes, and some access to the creek. I didn't see it in the creek master planning referenced to a bike trail though. My missing subject. It's on the south side. Yeah, it's on the other side of the creek. Yeah. Oh, it's on the other side? Yeah, that's why I was like. Yeah, I saw you working for a place. Is it really? Yeah, it's not really. So we couldn't do a kind of an eel-can-eel jump ramp over. Well, I'm down, you're talking. I saw him jump at the Tropicana Hotel. Point of clarification, is there fencing, possibly with barbed wire between that side of the creek and the park area that you cannot get to, you cannot get to the creek from Parablasa Park. It is quite. I don't know that. There are stretches that are fenced and sections that aren't. And there are a couple places where it's open. And I think people have, when the creek is dry, they actually cut across into one of your two parcels. I know that's where people cross. There is, in the Creek Master Plant, at some point there's intention to put a bridge over to Fresno, down sort of down a little bit west of where we're talking about, which would be fantastic. That would connect the current unpaved by-trial, which I ride all the time over to Fresno, and then you can go up to Gerodota. I'd love to see that. But I digress. So at this point, it's because there's no trail. I don't think there's any fencing along the back of any of those industrial properties at this point. I think of Yavi, I know of Yavi. Oh, Yavi does. You're right. Where we look at Northrop Grumman, that's business park versus industrial too. That's a change in zoning. Okay. And part of it is, the planning staff will say is, there's competing kind of requirements, depending on the zoning, on what you have to do. So, and there are bike lockers, by the way. So. Great. Well, thank you. Any other remaining comments by the committee? Amy, are you okay with where we are here? A lot of ideas, I think. Yeah. No clarification needed. Suzanne, do you need anything? No, sound wall. Okay. With that, I think we've done with this item, and I will call the adjournment of this committee meeting until next month, or you think we're still thinking about. We're going to try to schedule the tour. The tour? Yep. Down there, Colgan? Mm-hmm. I was going to say future agenda items, a couple of field trips. Maybe Robert can take us for a field trip. Yeah. It's summer. Great. I can take you for one on Rosalind Creek, and also coming towards the field trips. All up for field trips. Schools back in session. Have a GoPro for public comment and that kind of stuff. All right.