 yeah we are so honored to have these guys I didn't even tell them that they all had to be here for the workshop and it's like yeah just a couple a couple of the band if you guys want to be here but worship leaders said they didn't trust the band to talk without them there so that's why they do now I'm just kidding don't don't listen to anything I say I'm lying to you but I so appreciate these guys's ministry and hearts what they bring I truly believe that the upper room is pioneering a new expression in the prophetic worship movement and the marrying of worship and prayer together and that doesn't take a profit because the Lord has already really done that is really using their voice in a profound way so today what we're gonna do we have the whole crew and we have three mics and so I'm gonna just begin and start asking them some questions about different band team dynamics some of that the interworking this team has been together for so long have so much history and so I'm gonna begin by asking the band some questions and then move into some of the the worship leaders as well and then we'll open it up to the room for some questions so sound good you guys can maybe hold mics too check hi one two three Julian usually likes Reaver on his mic so check that's good whoa oh wow praise God sweet cool well I'm just gonna jump right in if you guys are cool doing that and so first first question for the band is related to the culture of musicianship and I know there's a lot of different views of like do you have band directors does worship leader kind of call the shots like what when you're looking at a band like when you're setting culture and philosophy like what are what are some of the things that you are telling new members like this is you know this is who a musician is and this is their role on the team do you guys have different phrases or any any ways of defining that that's really helpful yeah that's a really really great question thank you I go to Oscar no so one thing we oh thank you man thank you listen I know so the tabernacle who knows the tabernacle of David does anyone know what it is well we've really modeled our worship impermanent out of that and in the tabernacle of David there's there's a lot more musicians than singers so I don't I forgot the exact amount of numbers but throughout scripture whenever so whenever I think I'm thinking of one whenever the king of Israel needed a prophetic word they went to Elisha and Elisha is like well what you know long story short he's like bring me a musician so I can prophesy so we there's a lot of value to musicianships to musicians they're not just you know it's much more than just playing it's much more than just a role it's like they actually bring the sound brings the glory of God to a room and we really want to emphasize that to them we're like hey we really value parts we really value you know we have all like the ins and outs of like hey rehearsal is not a place for you to learn your parts you know learn beforehand but we want you to cultivate your spiritual life your devotion to the Lord because that makes a big big big difference so big ones like we're like hey it's like you're a prophetic musician it's like it's important so how do you if you have somebody who comes to your team and they have just been kind of a parts player their whole life and they all they know of worship is you know you listen to the song you memorize the part you play that part you start speaking into identity and prophesying you are you know prophetic musician what is the next step to have them step outside is there a safe place or a practical place where you begin to basically teach and train them to prophesy themselves I can answer you know even last night I was thinking throughout the set and I could say that every person whether you have a mic or not you have a voice and so we are big on you know stepping into a place of teaching a person to be able to speak or in a sense other another in other terms prophesy on an instrument and we do prayer sets everyone comes in and our on our church you can come and volunteer as a musician on our prayer sets and we have about two hours worth of worship and prayer and so our big yes come with parts obviously like we love the idea and we love the the coming forth and learning parts and growing in that but we really value the voice of a musician in an instrument like hey how do you how do you how do you encounter God with an instrument because it's much more than just hey I'm gonna get this thing right I'm I heard this drum part and I'm gonna just play it exactly no we we really value the the heart of can you translate a prayer like a like a worship through your heart into an instrument because it's sensed like it there's weight to a musician when they play and it's very I mean it you we don't say you know there's not a mic in front of us but there is weight that is carried so that that's one place that we really practically step into and yeah we just throw them in hey I want Abby to share her heart on musicians because I know that you're personally really convicted about this and Abby as will you share your heart or your two hearts because he has a baby inside so you have two hearts double hearts um I mean what Julian was saying it's that they have a voice I think it I started carrying this when I married Gabriel Gabriel's on the end he plays bass with us he does a lot more than play bass but I married into a family of musicians Oscars my brother Julian's my brother Sebastian's my brother and so I've seen and heard their process and how things make them feel and all the things and I I kind of see it like a dance because I I'll expand on that in a second but practically even how like the stage is set up like we stand in the front the worship leaders stand in the front the musicians always have the physical backseat and I've just always thought it was interesting and because I see it like a dance where I specifically with these guys we have relationship and so we know what gets each other like I know that when I sing certain things it it causes the musicians to encounter and they know that when they play certain things it causes me to encounter Jesus we've like learned each other that way so it's this dance it's not it's not they're always supporting me it's they're leading me and I'm leading them and we kind of take it back and forth like a dance and so yeah I mean that's pretty much it it's just the fact that just because what Julian was saying like just because I have a microphone and I can say words I've just learned that their sounds say so much more than I can like English or Spanish or whatever language you speak like words are not enough to convey certain things they're just not they never will be because we're talking to a God and we're talking about a God that is far beyond our language so and I just to add I we have a heart specifically to teach musicians to understand that music shifts atmospheres you know what you play it with intention it does shift and like it's like the example Oscar put of Elisha like the whole story is that King Jehoshaphat I think there was an army coming up but there was a situation and they went to the Prophet and they're like hey Prophet we need it we need a word from God and he's like well get me a musician to play and then I'll hear God and so we really take that on and hey like our role is let's step into this place let's shift this atmosphere with sound so that the prophets in a sense the ones that the singers can prophesy and sing unto what the Lord is saying and so we just we want to train musicians to see bigger than just parts like I think it's important for musicians to learn parts and then you know there's seasons of learning and growing but we're when we're what we're doing what we're doing together we really see it as a prophetic statement and so that the God is speaking today and now and so we all take a role in that and so like just to answer that question our hearts are just to show that hey we we shift atmospheres together it's together you know we we move as a unit and we're always listening to each other we're listening to what Joel is singing and we're like Lord let that encounter us how does that sound like you know and how does it sound like like last night we were we were stepping in we were just we were we were sitting and you painted the picture perfectly last night Elissa it did feel like we were walking around Jericho we're just holding a one like one cord and we're just staying there and we're saying Lord we're not moving until we see breakthrough you know and then so we're like how does break through sound like in this atmosphere you know like rumbles it's it's shaking it's snares it's and so we're stepping into this actively and they're singing and prophesying into the room because we're sensing this is what God like it's all active anyways I don't know I just want to tie it up I'll be the last for this question but man there's I want to put myself in your shoes like you're at a church and maybe your musicians aren't the best we've kind of all been there so like how do they how does someone come in that knows about worship culture in general how do they plug into this atmosphere and I think we have a prayer room so it's this very natural thing we do weekend and week out you may not have a prayer room at your church so how do you do that and I think like Joel talks about a lot but practicing the presence like maybe outside of what you're doing for Sunday you need to have time set aside where you guys get in a room together and maybe without instruments at first like maybe one guy brings an acoustic but you guys connect on a heart level and then start bringing instruments into a room so like okay you guys meet on Wednesday night to practice for Sunday morning have another time during the week that you guys just practice for no other benefit than just to grow so it's and then you can try different things like the playbook is just open there's all opportunities so like things we've done is like there's a couple chord progressions that I know Oscar is probably going to touch on in a set because they touch his heart so there's like three or four progressions that he's just going to call out so those are progressions we could just remember we use the number system so in any key we can apply it and then we just practice that progression and then from there the drums like Sebastian will have something that comes out and from there it's like Alyssa is inspired to sing because of this so these things are all growing on each other but you have to value it by creating time for it and it needs to be outside of the windmill over the week to week so and just to finalize so it's like we practice the Prince of God we value risk risks that we love risk it's like we're just and then lastly new sounds new songs break old rhythms new songs and new sounds break old rhythms so normal to like get into a habit get into a rhythm get into a structure which everything's rhythm structure they're all really good but it's like when I find myself in that place I'm like I need something fresh I need to I need to like find it I'm like let's find you sound let's sing a new song you know because it's something shifts automatically you're like wow what happened you know so those three things are really deep core values in my heart on the the the side of core progressions music you know changing those things up how much is that suggested by maybe somebody on an instrument or is there typically like an MD who's who's calling that out like how do you how do you communicate those things you know in the moment when you're feeling up God's doing something new so we want to bring a new sound to you know break the old pattern so practically how does that look how does the authority of that work great question so I have you I have the MD so kind of like I have the final call but as a leader good leaders bring clarity to the room or to your team so that's one thing I do I love to bring clarity to it and also don't like the bottleneck anything so like either comes from my I'm like hey let's go the one the one five six four or I trust them enough that they just go for it and I'm like okay I got it I got the progression and I say what they're playing after they replayed it so there's a moment of like a little bit of confusion that I'm like hey let's let's follow Gabe well let's follow Garrett let's follow Julian because there's life in that so that's kind of the way it works I either say it but also give the freedom to for them just to step out and I submit to it and if it feels a little wonky I'm like hey let's go back to the one hey let's go back to the old progression and there's like mutual submission in that yeah I wanted to bring that up actually we we have a term in our house it's actually we wrote a prayer manual and it's in there so that's really good I just kind of put it out there but we do we do call it mutual submission and it's actually I believe it came from one of Bill Johnson's preachings where he preached specifically about you know there's there's hunting dogs and then when one dog so they usually take them in pairs and one dog gets a scent the other dog automatically starts following the other you know the other dog so whichever dog got the scent immediately the other one starts going and they both go together and then from that preaching we're about to like take this mutual submission whereas like it's all open ended we're all we're all seeking what is the Lord on and so it could be on us a song it could be on a sound and we're just here our core progression and so we're all like it's we're seeking that that's it you know that oh the thing that turns your heart and says hey that even more Joel was preaching the faith the faith moment like okay that sound gave me faith again last night if you hear last night I there was a moment when he started hitting the snare it was at the towards the end it was like that that that and immediately my my heart was like hey that's given that's shifting something man and so we all come under that sound and so we all start making that sound and I'm sure that they start saying something so and it's same thing with court progressions you know there's court progressions that just move hearts and and shift hearts you know anyways hey I want to I want to share some I'm sorry Sebastian just when that stuff happens even practically as worship leaders like last night I remember the moment when Sebastian started hitting the snare and I generally my body will literally like I'll shift and I'll literally look at him and I'm like like literally say yes I'll mouth yes and communication is everything like you know we're on stage and it's it could be awkward to be like like the weirdest thing I could do is imagine if I'm singing and Sebastian right there and I'm like isn't that so weird but it but it kind of feels like we have to am I right but if I'm just like bro that's so good it like at the end of the day we're up there to minister to the Lord and so practically you just you could just listen I you're in Abby I'll be like hey are you feeling anything in the middle like the stage is so big the that I had to walk to Oscar and it was so often because I was like I'm walking and I'm like let's go to allah Luya right but I could have been like you know and it's it's I don't know why we think we have to do that but communication is everything looking at someone and saying that's good keep going is it's everything you just communicating to musicians hey bro you hear God and I'm gonna come under it you know so anyway I just want to share that I wanted to share on mutual submission a little bit because mutual submission doesn't look like it feels sometimes like Gabe like was telling me he's like I feel like you need to play the snare and you need to do the snare thing and I'm like bro I have no idea like it feels like really risky it feels like left field and I didn't want to do it but I submitted my heart and myself under what Gabe was actually telling me the whole night and right before that actually he's like I feel like we're walking around the walls of Jericho and I feel like there's breakthrough I feel like it's the and then Alyssa literally right after that she's like yeah it's just like yeah it was so funny no I literally tell Sebastian I'm like he takes off his ear I'm like hey dude I feel like you're supposed to lead this like you're supposed to like literally word for word and then and then he listens like I just feel like the bands are supposed to prophesy and I'm like could you could you show us what Joel was doing Gabe but all that to say I just feel like it's necessary to say that mutual submission sometimes feels risky and it doesn't feel like like oh like you like it almost feels like you're dying to yourself all the time like for me I was like I'm like I'm dying to myself in this moment forget what I feel Gabe feels something let me go see what he feels and then it I trusted Gabe 100% and and I think that broke something like in our in our team together and ultimately in the room just because even them if you want to dissect that moment I wasn't feeling anything so I'm like guys anyone have anything I have nothing just being honest and then all of a sudden Sebastian put this down like yes let's say I'm like go under it until I receive and feel something my heart from the Lord and then I prophesy yeah and Joel mentioned this to me just now someone to say this but it's something that we've built and we've intentionally in our culture and leading again to other people that we have over a hundred musicians that serve so we are intentional saying hey we're building a culture of trust I trust God and Joel I trust God and Gabe I trust the Holy Spirit and Sebastian that that whatever he's playing they're singing I'm I'm just saying yes you know and so with that like we've been intentional building a culture of trust of understanding that we all hear God it's not just the guys with the mic or just the guys that you know that can play the look the better part you know and it's everyone and so this yeah yeah I want to add to that I'll just be quick it's just I know that maybe many of you are like well maybe in our community like we have 30 minutes of worship and then the message and I think that's beautiful and I think that it all starts with honor honoring your leadership honoring what has your leadership given you like if they're like hey you have 30 minutes to lead worship and you honor that you don't complain because you want an hour you honor the 30 minutes because the thing is then your leadership can trust you with more does that make sense and so you may not have we have an hour of worship sometimes more and that's what our that's how we've we've been entrusted with that sometimes I want to do two hours you know but and then Michael's like no we got to get to the message and like yes sir you know but but it's I just wanted to say that like just because you don't have an hour of worship what do you have in front of you how can you cultivate that even with your musicians how can you communicate with a piano player before soundcheck and say hey bro I'm feeling like in this song instead of going straight to the bridge can we just kind of stay in the court progression for the chorus and kind of see where we go maybe and he might say I don't know and then you could say just trust me let's just try it in soundcheck and it works and maybe it doesn't it's okay because you create its communication it's honor does that make sense and so I just wanted to diffuse anything like well you don't understand our culture but it's more so you may be in a different culture but you can cultivate where you're at does that make sense so that's all I wanted to say yeah I I would love to stay on for a moment any of you who who want to speak on this because when I came to when I visited upper room that was the the thing that struck me the most was the culture of honor and I just kind of observed everything jumped on the inside and that mutual submission idea I love that I could go into a briefing and I didn't know who the heck was leading it and I didn't know because like you know the the the bass player the prophetic dancers and they're sharing the kind of the lead of where everything's going and everyone's honoring the point of that moment and there wasn't a lack of authority there just was such a high culture of honor for everyone and so I would love for you guys to speak into like how was that developed maintained you know what are some things you know for for those who are like man I know I need to walk in this and in a better way I think the biggest thing is we're always present like on stage we're 100% engaged with everyone it's like so if cuz I could stick I'm like I'm just gonna stick to the drums I'm just gonna focus what the kick patterns doing to stay on pocket or whatever you know as the bass player but I don't do that I live I listen to what the piano players playing with the guitar players playing with Joel singing and I'm just like fully open all the time so whenever the Lord comes on Julian playing a line I'm like yes let's go so it's like the being present is 100% key yeah I want to when it comes to honor honors given trust is built so no matter who I'm playing with it's like I will honor them despite of whatever I feel I might think you know you're like I don't really know if I want to go there but I'm gonna honor them but as I honor them what happens is like our hearts get kind of together and connected and then I'm like oh trust is being built here so from there I'm like oh I trust him and then or vice versa like oh they trust me so it's like for me when it comes to the culture of honor it's like you always have to come to the place I'm like I don't know their story I don't know what they love but it's like I'm like well Corey Russell I don't know if you guys know who he is when he first moved to up room I didn't know Corey you know I heard his I'm heard him from his messages but I didn't know Corey I honor him it was and then he goes to me like hey man I really I love minor for on the floor when I'm preaching I'm like great I'm like I'm not a minor guy you know I love that major just I just like it you know it's like there's no wrong or right but just me but I was like I'm gonna honor him so when I honored him I actually positioned me to receive what he's experienced with the Lord with the minor chords and like for the prophetic nature of him and it's like to a point like two years later I'm like man I first I've trust him now and two is like I've actually I do love minors you know I do it's something it's grown into it's kind of growing ingrained in me and that's kind of what I tell everyone like hey honors given trust is built just it's it's a slow build you know some people you trust my day I get you other people's like hey let's let's have honest conversations hey why did you go here why didn't you go here during like we do we have debriefs after some prayer sets and we're like hey I asked question like Joel why did you sing this song it's like and then he's like well I was feeling this this this and this and oh I got you I understand you now and we start to develop trust and that's kind of how you start to develop that trust within yeah and I want to take it like a step further it's then it becomes like a relationship then I'm like I know what Joel likes he likes whenever I play this or I know what we call it trigger I know what triggers Oscar when I because so it's just like it even deeper it's like we develop a relationship on that stage so it's like and then we nurture that so yeah just to like it's you said it like having debriefs I just would say don't be afraid to have hard conversations like there have been so many moments when I'm like why the frick did you sing that or play that like somebody that I maybe like because we're we have so many people serving in the prayer room we have honestly no idea who we might be on a set or a service with at any given point sometimes and so sometimes there's like people I've never I haven't personally spent time with and I'm just like I don't understand why we did that but I just ask like you just have to ask and it builds that trust it's just like a very practical thing is just ask questions or say hey that made me feel kind of weird or that made me feel this way it it has never it has never caused more of a problem to be honest about something feeling weird it's actually only helped and brought us closer it's a huge part of why all of us are really close because we have awkward conversations super awkward uncomfortable Joel asks more questions than anybody I've ever known but I've learned about him even like this is an example I've learned from about Joel that when he has questions it's not because he's like doubting me or what sometimes I'm like stop questioning my identity oh my god but he just genuinely wants to understand I've learned a lot from Joel about that just like like seek to understand so yeah maybe maybe one more follow-up on that debrief because you guys have a high culture and value for you you're like take risks step out you know like everyone's prophesying and so you know you undoubtedly are having lots of moments where either people are off or seeing something off or you know where it's not sitting right with people and and you know you've just been like the go for it you know and they're like okay and they step out and just seeing something that's like way off or you know unscriptural or whatever like how are you guys approaching that honest conversation I know you started with a the asking question but if you're like hey why did you sing that Jesus was married to on earth and they and they tell you why so then what's the funny like like after you learned why they did it you know what's that next step of being able to correct without crushing them but also being able to protect what you have let's let's play it out so they're saying Jesus is married yeah you know you're saying that I'm like hey Caleb why help me understand the concept of Jesus well you told me that you know that Jesus lives inside of me and to trust what he's saying and in that moment I just saw a picture of him being married to somebody on earth and I was like God you would give why would you give me this picture if it wasn't true and so I just sing it I'm like I would tell him I was like man that's that's your personal revelation I think you should you know keep asking the Lord in that but I'm like there's better language of saying that he lives in you and because I'm like when I'm like when I'm thinking about you being in a room I think about the person that's not engaging and it's like from a from a lyrical standpoint it's like you put theology in people's mouth when they start singing and that's really really important words matter they matter a lot that's good Oscar I'm like if you can I'm like let's let's talk through it I can give you some practical like he lives in me you know spirit you know spirit in the brides they come I don't know they're just more biblical ways of I don't diminish diminish the conversation but I help I help them like put better language to it you know redirect I'm like hey there's just better language here's some scriptures let's go through it redirect hey think about the person that's on their phone on on Facebook it's like you know it's like they're disengaged it's like think about them put language in their mouth you know it's it's simply uh no yeah I'll say like around this subject I think like it's important too to identify like the goal of like the set and at upper room like the goal is for everyone to encounter the Lord together and so in order to do that we're asking the Holy Spirit like what revelation of Jesus are you wanting to point us to together and so on a set if I'm leading my set and Abby and Joel are my co-leads um like an unspoken like not rule I guess but an unspoken rule is like oh Elis is the lead of the set you know so and we have a worship leader for every prayer set and so it's my heart to empower Joel and Abby on my team um and so this whole mutual submission thing it's like oh it's not that I don't want them to sing what's in their heart or it's not that like I'm just gonna let Abby go off and whenever she's singing and then I'm gonna bring it back and then I'm gonna let Joel's like if Abby starts singing about the Lord as a deliverer it's like great I'm gonna mutually submit to that for a little bit and then Joel's gonna come in and start singing as God as our righteousness and it's like wait a second so who's right who heard God you know what I mean and the thing is they both did like you're not gonna miss it like we all hear the Lord so the mutual submission part of what we're talking about is so important because our desire is to encounter something about the Lord together so if Abby starts singing about the Lord as a deliverer me and Joel already know okay I'm going to submit under her faith as God as our deliverer and what I'm sensing from the Holy Spirit is neither wrong and I didn't miss it but it's unity I want to encounter together as a room I don't just want you to hear my song about what I heard and then let Joel hear his song about what he heard but yeah there's no unity no one's actually encountering anything about Jesus you know they're just listening to us be creative and that's not the point that's it and so the point is like in a set we're all wanting to encounter Jesus together at the same time and I didn't even know that was possible but it is and the reason why this is possible and this is important is because you know at the end of the bible where it says the spirit and the bride say come that means everyone at the same time is going to hear the same thing by the spirit and sing it at the same time on earth is really going to happen and Jesus is going to come back because of that so we are tapping into what we're doing eternity we're tapping into it wouldn't be possible for the entire church seeing the same thing at the same time on our own only by the spirit and so we're learning how to hear the spirit how to mutually submit to one another it's like man it's not that my revelation is wrong or I'm missing God it's just that this isn't about me I want to encounter God together and be transformed together and that builds trust and that builds unity so in those places with my singers it's like hey we were singing about the Lord's our deliverer and and then you started singing about him being married like tell me about that you know and it was like what were you sensing why did you want to go there you know and it and you just kind of find out that like we're learning how to mutually submit to one another and we're learning to lay down you know my identity it tied tied that can be tied to my performance and I want you to hear what I have to sing you know and that's not necessarily bad it's it's our journeys you know guys like I think the biggest part too is we've all had to process in our hearts of like men we love singing we love playing we love to be affirmed in what we're doing that's not bad we love the stage because there's a part of our calling attached to it and that's okay admit that I think the biggest thing is we don't admit it so then we hide it we're stuck in false humility then we get on stage and we're in confusion we don't know we're singing I'm overthinking everything I can't submit to you because I want you to hear me and it's just like we've talked about it you know we've had to be like yeah you know what like that was about me and so there's so much that goes into play but I think in family in a safe place like we can admit these things like man we're we're singers or musicians or creatives we love that space so let's actually diffuse all the things of I can't love what I do and I need to be humble and like oh it's like once you step into that place and man you just diffuse so many lies accusations jealousies embies then I get on stage and I don't care what Joel sings about the Holy Spirit I'm going to submit because I trust him I care about encountering God yeah I want to share a couple core values I want to transcribe that and like put it on the wall I know the last five minutes the whole thing so we have like four core core values in our home in prayer room specifically it's called it's faith unity encounter liberty it's faith and who he is really really important in his nature he is faithful he is lord he's a healer really really important worship is agreeing to who he is who Jesus is it's about it's the Holy Spirit giving us eyes to see and ears to hear him and then from their unity we encounter we sing that together we sing it together collectively and what happens with that is that we actually encounter a man who is faithful we actually encounter together a man who heals we encounter a man who delivers and what happens from there is like any lie oh like man I don't really believe God's a healer it's like well there's faith in the room for it and you're delivered from false narratives with God from your inside oh man I don't really think God loves me well God God is love he's like and he he's the one who authors of faith in your heart and he delivers you he makes you free from this false narrative that you didn't even know you had and that's really important so it's faith unity encounter liberty we it's a high high value in our house we we we kind of said it as how we see the spirit move um is this faith unity encounter liberty we we've just noticed and we've been uh and our pastor you know just kind of give him a little he uh he he told us to be uh what is it he said to learn and I mean and we want to learn and give language to what God is doing in our house and this is the presence stewards of the presence we don't just want to you know play worship awesome that was a great set you know like no we we we've been the last few years of our life we've been sitting and saying hey how can we put language what are we actually doing up here you know what when when it doesn't just okay awesome that was a great set no like God what are you doing and so just so just to kind of point what Oscar's saying uh this is what we feel like the spirit does when we are playing singing we're entering to worship it's this faith unity encounter liberty and the goal is what he was just said it's for all of us to encounter together the whole room not just even the the the musicians singers but no the whole room audience together we're all singing this one song and we're all seeing Jesus together by the Holy Spirit you know that's the goal that we want and that's what we step into it's awesome um i'm gonna that's a great point i feel like they just summarize so much it should be a great point to shift to start taking some questions uh so if you have a question that you want to ask the panel go ahead and raise your hand i saw this hand first so i'm going to run to you hi i'm jenny i'm a worship pastor from the mountains North Carolina hi hi jenny thank you so much so when you were talking about um how you could hear everyone and you were collaborating and playing i was thinking all but i got so many people on my team who can't mix and so and then they'll be like well i can't put drums in because then i can't hear myself and i know y'all are probably thinking that too so you got any help for me like in there in your yeah their mix sucks great question fix it so the so you guys have a bad mixer is that is that kind of it their personal their IEMs are they okay i would i would ask your front of house guy whoever the guy is like hey can you give us a training on how to mix our ears you know if you don't know you just don't know you know and it sounds like he doesn't know who that person doesn't know so what do you do is like find someone that does know and help and help train your teams like hey when you're mixing you know have drums if you like they kind of give you some handles of like oh this is how a mixture sound because remember when i first started playing music i was like i was like i just plugged in my ears turned up the master you're like how it sounds is how it sounds you know but it's a journey you know it'll slowly get there but find someone that can help you and i think again it's like with trust you know saying hey um i know you don't put drums in your ears how about let's just try the kick drum it was just like just feel it just encounter it just feel it and so i think like again talking about it you know and i really feel like specifically you start with drums like practically you start with drums saying if someone doesn't like drums like hey let's just put the kick i just want you to really like encounter that kick or the snare or something and so um yeah Gabe give me a 30 second breakdown of your mixed philosophy in your ears all right drums drums yes i love drums drums if i feel it i get into it i always touch the bass i'm like if you're playing the snare i love it like or the kick i it's something inside me like just what's the word it triggers me there it is it triggers me and so drums then uh piano bass vocals and the guitars sorry no but i love you i love you i have to hear you hi i'm michael um worship pastor of radiant church in jackson um great question by the way i just walked through that about a year ago so that brings me to my question what's up oh you tapped my leg um we just worked on that about a year ago and now we're starting to hear each other and probably what 75 percent of our band has been playing together the last 10 years um and we under i like i resonate with that like i know triggers of every person on my team and now we're talking with each other how do what can i do as a worship pastor leader to help maybe the question is did do you guys remember making that switch from we're kind of starting to talk but how do we cultivate it does that make sense like how do you make that transition into practicing it and giving verbiage to it rather than just like hey we're all feeling something but what do we do with that you know what i'm saying like in a worship setting yeah yes in a worship setting you're trying to get language to what the Lord's doing in your house is that is that the question no i think i think it's more we've been playing together so long we're knowing but it's almost like hey i hear this i hear what you're doing and we kind of start to follow it but then it falls apart because it's like we haven't made that full transition to i don't know if that makes sense it does um do you have an md you don't have a music director and that's like what's going on in my brain so i actually just broke practically so um last night when i walked up to oscar and i was like hey let's go into alleluia like he has the ability to communicate with everyone uh on the team at the same time because he has a microphone right and it's silent in the house but everyone else in the in years can hear it and so super practical could be for example you're the worship pastor worship leader and you're singing alleluia all the angels cry holy is the lord god and you're like man inside of a year like i really feel like i want to sing that he's holy even more so all literally what you could do is you could go up to your md and say hey can we just stay on this chord progression and i'm going to sing about him being holy just go with me let's see where we go and literally what oscar will do is hey guys joe's feeling like he wants to sing about him being holy hey musicians let's back him up and then also the coli's will be like they immediately will say okay we're now going to back him up you know what i mean and so that's so practical like i love that question because it kind of diffuses like well how do you practically do it i think having an md would be amazing and or unless i know that some musicians some worship leaders have like a is it called a trigger where a talk back where you can actually do the talk back to whatever works for you do it an md is amazing because you're able to communicate at the same time to everyone so yeah yeah yeah bro and then that could even take weight off your shoulders as a worship leader where you can really trust the md to like if you want to change instead of going to the one five six four you go to the one over three five six four and it just changes it up and he's making those calls so yeah i hope that helps yeah i don't know if this is like a step behind me i feel like maybe i should have said this and then joe said his practical tip but also i know we keep saying like have honest conversations and whatever but one of our key leaders jonathan lewis he talks a lot about the song of the lord and it's what we were what we were all saying like where's the wind where is the where is god and how do we follow him who's he on what sound is he on what words is he on and so just like talking about that like jay lu will oh jonathan lewis a lot of times he'll be like did you feel that like gay played that thing or illisa sing that thing did you feel it that was a song of the lord and then we all know like oh now we're going to get under that yes it is kind of a practical thing to just like out loud even in the talk back like do you feel that and he'll and he a lot of times he'll be like that person doesn't know how to feel it yet but it's okay because we're going to teach them like they will learn yeah and so well one practical thing one practical like we're privileged enough to have the prayer room and miller says like the prayer the sunday nights or sunday services is the overflow of what we do in the prayer room and so it's like something practical you could do it's like you could get a team and just play until you feel something you know and you could and you could direct you could be like hey drummer i want you to just start the set you know it's something so practical and then whenever you feel you encounter the lord of him playing hey a bass player i want you to play after you encounter and so and so you start developing this like culture and then all of a sudden you're going to start doing a sunday and then the drummer is going to start taking over and he's going to feel the presence he's going to be like he's going to you know it's so it's practicing the presence so real quick last thing on this this is good guys you can go to the one court and that's your safety net and everything can come down and Joel does it a lot because Joel doesn't know like we're in a moment and he knows where we need to go and he's like i in his head he's like i can't connect to them but we can come down and then we can take flight again to where we need to go so sometimes it might be that because you're in the moment you're like i feel this thing how do i communicate it and there's this train wreck about to happen i see it happening but you just come down to the one again and then reset and then go from there so and it that if you've never done that before with your community that might feel weird but if you just decide this is how we're going to do it they're going to go with you dude i just want to massively affirm that just the that because it brings the the simplicity of you know when things start to get get chaotic i mean you always look for look let's simplify get on the same page and then go somewhere and so what you just described is so wise in in the midst of a little bit of that clunkiness it's just the oh wait let's just reset and then go again and i yeah just nice comment bro sick comment dude yeah sebastian oh you're were you just what were you doing you're not making a comment i taught him that okay more questions one less thing on that just real quick i just want to like people don't know what they don't know so like you're creating culture in the moment too so when you start doing those things they're like okay this is okay this is good this is god so good i am a worship leader um utica michigan and um i just had a question um i know that you've probably been able to like add to your team like very uh specifically and on purpose um when i became a worship leader some of the members on our band had been on the team longer than i was at the church so um i think over the past few years like our team we kind of had two teams that were going on where you know and so we had two different cultures going on so over the past few months we felt like the lord was you know trying to unify us and so we've mixed up all the all the people and so i am leading more and what's happened is you know uh the musicians who were just coming on playing their set i'm done get my guitar you know now we're like oh guys what's god doing in your life like can i share a word i don't want that and so i'm struggling as a leader um you know with it's a small percentage most of them are like yes let's go let's lean in let's you know we're not just here to perform you know most of our people um but a certain person in particular is just completely opposed to um that kind of leadership and so i'm just curious to see like and i know it might be different for your experience you're interviewing people and inviting them on or not but you know having someone who um is you know i'm saying okay we're gonna pray before the set let's just gather and just ask the lord to go before us and to use us and this person is like you're gonna start to pray i'm taking my guitar and i'm going in the back or we're trying to share a word and he's packing up his gear and taking off so i'm thinking like okay i don't know how to how to pass her through that yeah yeah i mean i think that's for for that's an invitation you know to draw closer because uh something in my marriage i'm like uh conflict leads to intimacy you know and so i feel like i feel like that's just an open door to like say hey why you know just just opening that conversation because if he's packing up just i don't want anything to do with prayer or anything it's just like hey i want to understand why like and i want to uh i want to help you as much as i can and you know so and that's even bringing more people along like say so i feel like he's kind of like opening a door in a weird way like you know um i'm trying to explain it yeah that's just so i feel like that's just an invitation to draw closer to him whoever that is i think the biggest thing is casting vision like without vision people perish we know that but i think if you're doing that and they don't know there's probably some kinetic energy where people are just going with it but like if you set this vision that we can all go to then it's inevitably it will weed out people that don't want to be a part of that vision or maybe they shouldn't be and that's easy for me to say because i'm up here on a mic just telling you that you live in the real world with your church and your relationships and that can be hard and we've had to walk through we've had people that before Sebastian was here we had a drummer and he's not with us anymore but we cast vision and then we had to say okay that's okay we love you and we send you but this is the vision we're doing we're going to minister the lord first this is what we're going to do and so because of that it's not only did it so at the beginning it was like oh we just weeded a bunch of people out but then it started bringing people because when we lift him up like he draws who needs to be there and so i think if you start setting that vision he's going to recognize either this is where i need to be or it's where i not you know maybe i shouldn't be there and maybe maybe hard maybe he's been there 10 years and it's like you think i'm an honor for that service like you're there's an open door here but this is our vision yeah and i think that sets the tone of parameters to let the lord start to work on people's hearts to draw them should i be here or not yeah i was i was gonna say you stole every single word out of my mouth yeah write down the vision it's important vision is important you're you're creating the culture a good leader brings clarity they see the end of the goal and then the lord brings people to help you get there um so yeah write it down really important emphasize it like we we value prayer we value worship we value his presence you know whatever the lord has for you and then there's also a pastoral side as well i gave a little touch on it it's like the fact that he's being honest is actually a good thing yeah the fact he's like i don't want to be here it's actually a door for you to say hey help me understand why and then from there's like you know but you know i was hurt by the and then from there opportunity for the lord bring healing upon his heart so it's like from there is asking the lord to like like help me get a heart for him and then three i think intercession is great yes have your team pray like have you pray for him yes alone lord touch him lord minister to him in the lord will do it he hears your prayers and like in the weirdest way he's like craving that you know so uh so he's wanting someone to pray for him so yeah and i just i feel it in my heart i carry him in my heart because like i've been there you know and so and so yeah so let's pray for him and and i really feel like he's about to encounter the lord he's he's gonna encounter yeah uh i'm not no yeah what does he play guitar guitar we're gonna call him out what's his email address yeah i'm just kidding well i wait i can we just um what's your name amanda lord i just pray for amanda and just a leadership yes on her life the call father for her worship team father i pray for vision from heaven father but i pray for unity with her worship team i pray for these specifics father i pray for open doors that they might these these musicians might step in father and hear you and see you father and jump in to what you're doing in this house father so i pray that father i pray for the grace over her specifically father to lead father i pray for the grace to lead i pray father and i actually saw you writing down and sitting with the lord and saying lord speak to me for the next uh year the next two years the next five years and i and so so father i just pray right now father for the grace to lead the grace to pastor the grace to speak and the grace to just grow in this and in this worship culture jesus and i just feel like a downloads about to happen within this week that you're gonna get vision clear vision what the lord wants you to do for the church and for for the worship so i just pray for amanda that she just gets the most clear vision that uh she's gonna present this to her pastor saying hey i feel like the lord's telling me this and they're gonna say yes let's run with it and so yeah amen and i feel like the lord's giving you wine and he's gonna bring people around that's gonna help you build the wine skin so lord i pray that you bring those people lord thank you for the wine that you've deposited amanda i pray thank you that it's sweet it's great but i ask for wine skin we don't want that wine to be spoiled and dropped in jesus name hey amanda can you stand up uh well can if you're around her can you like lay hands on her um i just feel like the lord wanted to honor you i feel like um feel like you are so humble yeah you're so humble and you have chosen to time and time again forgive and forgive and forgive and i felt like the lord was going to give you double honor um i felt like uh where you have been humiliated um i'm gonna read something over you isaiah 61 verse 1 the spirit of the lord is upon you or upon me but i'm gonna say the spirit of the lord is upon amanda because the lord has anointed amanda i'm gonna skip to verse seven instead of your shame you will have double a double portion and instead of humiliation they will shout for joy over the portion thank you lord therefore they will possess a double portion in their land everlasting joy will be theirs and lord i thank you for amanda i thank you god that you anointed amanda to be uh in the position that she's in lord and god we break off any lies that have tried to keep her silent for years anything that's made you to anything that tells you to shut up amanda is not the lord and so we break that off of you and i actually feel like there's like this atomic bomb inside of you that sometimes almost goes off but for some reason it's just scary and i feel like the lord is going to make you explode from the inside out so lord whatever is inside of our god we just ask for it to come out and to bless the people around or we need you amanda we need you in the body we need you to be fully you and father i thank you that amanda even for making amanda a woman i thank you that even in our house with the in upper room the lord's been really speaking to us about women and how women are gonna lead are gonna lead us to the lord so we bless you amanda as a woman that you are that you hear the lord that you hear the lord just as a man you hear the lord equally you hear the lord amanda and you're put in that position for a reason so god i thank you for even the strength i thank you for the strength i thank you that you're one like uh is it j i don't even know how to say jl the one that puts a peg a peg in that man's mind like jl there we go and i feel like it's this like she's a woman she's beautiful but she's she's also going to kill somebody if they're coming against the lord i'm not saying you're going to kill someone but what i am saying is that there's something about you in there that's like that that has to come out and i just feel like even through these frustrating things that you find yourself in it's like and you're going to do it with grace and love but it'll be the truth so we bless you with that and the thing is you carry god's heart you carry god's heart and so i'm yeah so you you you know you hear him so we bless you we bless you yes you're doing such a good job awesome yeah um i i'm from traver city we have a group i'm katie hi hi um and i help leadership and i just had a question actually for you guys but also potentially for you as well and so like yeah so we talk about this we talk about this culture of worship and i think it's such a blessing that you guys are in a house of worship that you also have it's a prayer room so i mean you can just build that like every day and just train people in that and that's um in traver city we have grand travers house of prayer which is really helpful so we have another spot that you can go to and pray and whatever but how do you um how do you train people like coming in from traditional church backgrounds and you know like training them because it's easy for us to be on the worship team and me specifically i struggle with i want to be there i want to be doing like you know upper room i want to like have you know whatever and just all those glory moments and everything and thankfully we have pastors who are also worship leaders and they help usher in that but how do we train people with gentleness and communication and kindness how do we do that and take them with us like you were talking about unity instead of being like so far ahead that they're like i don't know where we are you know because we want them to be with us how do we how do you guys how do we do that how to train someone i'm a very practical standpoint i mean that's a great quick question i do have something do you want to go for it yeah is that okay um actually i heard this from somebody uh he's a pastor in miami and uh i i thought it was amazing he said uh he said to give more to those like in a sense he said specifically to the musicians or other worship leaders give them more like if you see a musician and be like hey you're gonna run md today be like well i don't you're gonna do it and we're gonna trust you so good and then put them on the spot or a singer hey maybe they're a little shy hey you're gonna lead today and we're gonna follow you and and if they fall flat on their face it's like afterwards like hey we trust you still and like a good leader comes under so it's like coming under these people and giving them trust like musicians singers giving them more empowering them giving that's what like to be honest with you our pastor our pastors they don't sing they come from a church of christ background which they know if they don't really do music which is really funny it's all acapella and so they have literally just handed us the mics and said like you guys do it you guys lead and we've had times we've remember one time like this is years ago we didn't you didn't sing for 45 minutes this isn't a sunday service he didn't sing for 45 minutes and our pastor was like hey joe we need you to sing a song but it was 45 minutes at just nothing yeah and it was a whole church service so uh just practically it's like learn to just if you're in leadership just give them the mic yes and and and and be ready for a journey yeah that's a good word can i say uh so i think like whenever before upper room and before even music our passion was just jesus you know we develop our friendship that the foundation was just jesus you know and and so i feel like um um here sorry i'm just like okay i completely blanked out okay oh no i got it i got it like uh so whatever the lord's passion desire put in your heart i feel like he's it's an invitation for the other people to catch it and so even like even like uh opening up the view in the bible study or or just something where the where you're leading it and they catch your heart and you they catch the lord's burning desire in your heart and then you start growing from that so the foundation is always jesus you know the foundation and so and then one more thing um whenever we started playing music um i mean it was really bad like we had an electric drum set i was playing guitar and i have really chubby fingers and i would just mess up chords all the times and so but um we played until we felt something you know and there was times where uh sebastian would just be crying on the drums and i would just be slain and the spirit just until we played something so like um we again practicing the presence it says key and just opening up that door and given given the the musicians worship leaders an invitation to do that so exactly yeah exactly and then all of a sudden like the encounter that the musicians and the worship leaders are going to happen because it's the lord so beautiful it's going to transfer over and then and then it's crazy because like we call it in the river then the the congregation starts leading you it always happens it always happens it's like uh yeah it's so yeah you just your last question about like how do you bring the i i was i was reading this book one time and it's talking about steve you wonder and he's talking to his bandmates when they're like playing on stage and he's like if we feel it i know they feel it and so in some level like if there's that trust up there you can bring that with you but really practically because we've had some people the hard truth is we've had people that come from that background that have tried to plug in an upper room and it just hasn't worked and we've tried like hey well oscar is an incredible musician and he's actually a really great teacher too so he'll sit down he'll take the time to sit down with people maybe you don't have someone like oscar at your church maybe you can hire someone you can value that for the person so it might be that it's like maybe we just need to get lessons sometimes it's a style thing and that's a it's another mutual submission like part of that drummer i mentioned before it was a part of it was a style thing is like well this is how i think music should be done we're like that's just not where we're at this is what we're doing you know that eventually it just there was a break point where it was like okay you know we're good that's it is what it is you know and so on some level like you've got to you have to value it as opposed to just saying like hey we'll do it like hey i'm gonna out of my own pocket i'm gonna pay a hundred bucks a week so you can get this because we really value you know like whatever your level is but i i think that's something we do we kind of have that built in with oscar innocence so if you don't have that you can get it somewhere you know so my email i'm just kidding my email address i'm kidding um sorry sorry sorry um here's the light up onto your path and the lamp onto your feet you see the end goal sometimes you don't see step one so ask the lord for step one yeah it's important um and two uh i feel like those are gonna give you structure for your worship like um yeah there's structure there but there's a caught value to it too you can have the right structure and still miss it you can have the right people and still miss it and there's a caught value that i love what gape said like find time to connect hearts and you know for us presence is a big deal we love the prince of jesus and just find make room for that you know hey one hour we're going to spend time with the lord together see and see what the lord does and it's a it's a julian said it you're going to go on a journey what you see today has been a 10-year journey we've messed up so many times we've gotten it wrong and we still get it wrong you know it's part of it but you're with we're following a man and that's the end goal just to like give some hope like i grew up in a really small town with like really um like not the best musicians and like just as a worship leader like serving there and i don't know if you guys are familiar with like those small towns where you're not really sure if your bass player is saved but like he's your bass player you know or like it like if you're drummer like even knows god or like you know what i mean like you're just like but they're here and they're kind and they're sweet people i know you guys all know what i'm talking about okay and so like something that like i think for me that like i like because i had this vision of like man there's more i i want to go somewhere but like my musicians aren't necessarily capable to lead and take us where i'm feeling i want to go so how do i do what you're doing and something that like i noticed would help is i would ask my bass player like hey what do you listen to like what songs does your heart connect with you know and there was like oh there's this mercy me song that i really love and mercy me maybe was not what i listen to you all the time but because i valued him i would learn the song and i'd put it on the set list and and so the same thing with like my drummers or my electric guitar player like what are you listening to what do you like like what are you worshiping to outside of here and it was really kind of valuing like i value what you bring and i want us like i i don't want you just to learn songs for me i want to learn songs for you and i i want i want you to be like i want you to see that i value and i value what you bring and so it takes a lot of humility to do that but at the same time i watched that bass player get so inspired and i would watch him show up because i remember there was a specific bass player at my home church who like was just kind of like there you know and so i was like hmm like he keeps showing up though so what what is it about him like what keep what keeps these people showing up you know that i sometimes don't always value because they're not going where i want to go you know and so i was just like hey man isn't it like i'm not gonna say what his name is actually but i love him i i just recently saw him and his wife again and i kid you not and it like a year and a half spanned he grew exponentially because i would just ask hey what songs are you feeling for this weekend and he was gonna sing them when i wasn't gonna lead them but i wanted him to know i valued what he brought and when like when you give people that opportunity like dude and i'll ask my prayer set this now in Dallas i'll ask him like hey if there's songs you're listening to during the week that your heart's connecting with let me know i'll learn it if i don't know it and i'll put it on our set because i've it's the point of we're all going together and i don't i'm not just wanting them to follow me you know so yeah that might help like little practical things because it's not like you probably don't have an influx of just so many millennials and jens ears with their computers and all the stuff like flooding in but you do have faithfulness and like if when you value their faithfulness they'll begin to value your vision and the next thing you know they want to grow they want to lead they'll look up whoever you're listening to and figure out their guitar tones and things like that you know and then i'd put a vision before i'm like hey i love these songs so i would learn things for him and then give him things to listen to like hey i'm thinking about doing this song in a couple weeks would you listen to this for me he's like yeah absolutely because i put that mercy me song on you know what i mean like so that's yeah that's my thought so yeah awesome hey um can we give some honor uh to the whole upper room team that was insane