 Israel's story to the world, I-24 News Channels, now on Hot. Good evening and welcome to I-24 News' ongoing coverage of Israel at war. I'm Ariel Levin-Lognan. Rocket fire continues on Israeli communities. Morning air raid sirens on the Israel-Gaza border. Fighting against Hamas strongholds continues in various fronts across the Gaza Strip at this hour. Overnight, the Israeli Air Force destroyed a rocket launching site that was targeting the city of Sturrogan. Paratroopers took Hamas structure in Hanyunas, where they located 250 rockets, mortars and RPG missiles ready for use. Have you fighting today? Also in the West Bank, where Israeli troops eliminated at least three Palestinian terrorists in the city of Jenin during an arrest raid in which the militants opened fire and threw explosives at the forces. Terrorists were eventually eliminated with a drone strike. Meanwhile, on the northern front, a brief lull in the fighting overnight. That came after Hezbollah, the terror group there, fired dozens of rockets and anti-tank missiles towards Israeli communities and military posts yesterday. But the fight against Iran's maligned proxies continues further abroad still. In the Red Sea, the Iran-backed Houthis confirmed they were behind the missile attack against Norwegian tanker Strinda last night, which they say was on its way to the Israeli poor city of Ashdod. And we are going to open with our eye in the south, where we have our correspondent Pierre Kloschenler stent. We're actually going to instead discuss this more in studio while we attempt to reconnect to our correspondent Pierre in the south. Sitting with me right now is Hanan Geffen, Brigadier General Hanan Geffen, the former commander of the 8200 Intelligence Unit. I want to take the opportunity to address the Houthi situation. They are expanding their operations against anything Israel and no longer a ship owned by a shipping company that has partial Israeli ownership. Now anything heading towards Israel in their name, in their words, this is putting them on a collision course with almost everybody because international shipping is considered sacrosanct. Yeah, first of all, let's establish their status. They are proxy of Iran. They are acting under guidance of Iran, encouragement of Iran and so on. Now, if we see the statement is degrading, first of all, they started with we are shooting at a lot and until Israel will not stop, invasion of Gaza will not stop. Now the last statement, until food is not entered into Gaza, we will not stop. They're trying to kind of back off because they are seeing what is going, the coalition is going to, is now gathering. I believe the game that they try is bigger than they are. They enter a game which is bigger and several numbers on their capabilities. They are surrounded by Saudis, the South and Yemenis, and of course the international coalition in the U.S., Britain, France, Japan, and I will guess even the Chinese will enter because this is disrupting international trade significantly. This is the way, a bubble manda is a way to the Suez Canal, to Israel Gulf, to Aqaba Gulf, very heavy international commercial traffic. And they know that they have to be very careful. We'll see how it develops. I don't believe it's the problem of Israel right now. It's a problem Israel has to be attentive to, defend as much as you can. It is not a direct problem right now. We have a bigger problem that we have to solve in the new future. So what do they really have to gain by doing this if they're only inviting total destruction on their own heads? I believe it's the same that we see in Hezbollah, the same proxy guided by Iran to go on to work with Israel. Okay, we're going to continue this discussion very briefly, but first we are going to turn to our correspondent in the South, Pierre Kloschen. Standing by just outside the border town of Sterot. Walk us through what the most recent updates on that front are, Pierre. Right, here, we're just facing the northern sector of the Gaza Strip. This is the area of Bethanoun, and there's still a lot of activity here, although it's under full operational control by the IDF for a few days already, but there's a lot of infrastructure that the engineering corps and the Yalom unit, which is specialized in neutralizing tunnels, are activated very much with neutralizations of tunnels and tunnel shafts. Earlier, you had the excerpts of what the General Security Services Head, Ronan Bar, said while on a visit in Hanyun, as he said, this is a war of tunnel shafts. And indeed, there are thousands of them strewn all over the 380 square kilometers of the Gaza Strip, be it in the north, in the center, or in the south. And this adds to the complexity of the fighting, because tunnel shafts are used in many instances to ambush the Israeli troops, such as popping out of a tunnel shaft, of a tunnel, launching a rocket-propelled grenade, and then disappearing inside the tunnel. Or sometimes, if the tunnel is inclined in an angle, then the terrorists can put a landmine, sink it to the tank, and explode it while at the same time he enters the tunnel to protect himself. So this is extremely difficult. Fighting is still going on for a 12th consecutive day on the northern outskirts of Gaza City in the Jabalia refugee camp, where the army is also finding a lot of weapons in residential homes used by civilians, but taken over by Hamas terrorists. And as well as in the southeastern outskirts of Gaza City, in the Shejaya neighborhood. And since December 1st, as well, Hanyunes has been the make or break of Hamas in a sense that the political and military leadership are located there, according to the IDF intelligence, because they come from Hanyunes. They're originated from there, and they believe that they can trust the most loyal people in the vicinity of Hanyunes. Now, Hanyunes is a different ball game, because if here, we're talking about high-rise buildings that were demolished by the Israeli Airborne Campaign in Hanyunes, this is an area with a lot of farming land, a lot of orchard where the terrorists can hide and ambush the ground forces. We know that they're fierce fighting on the eastern outskirts of Hanyunes in El Abasan, as well as on the northern eastern outskirts in Bani Suheila. And inside Hanyunes, 98 division, which is the division of all the commando units of the IDF is fighting close combat. Also, the city is encircled, and the only way out of the battlefield for the non-involved Palestinian civilian population is by the west of Hanyunes. In the northern sector as well, there's a few tens of thousand people that never left the battlefield. And they are required to use the humanitarian access, the Salahadin access, that cuts across the Gaza Strip from the east of Gaza City, from north to south. And they're required, they're urged by the IDF to join the cohort of displaced Palestinians and find shelters at dedicated place. In Rafah, still bombing as well, because there are targets of a tariff action called the Popular Resistance Committee. And there, this tariff action has made a lot of money via smuggling through the Egyptian border into the Gaza territory. And the fear also of the IDF is that the political and military leadership of Hamas will try to use some of the tunnels that still exist between Gaza and the Egyptian border. And flee to the Egyptian territory with hostages. This is one of the fears of the IDF. Thank you very much for that report from the South Pierre and that update on that front. Hanan, I want to turn back to you. You're an intelligence guy yourself. And one of the things Pierre mentioned, the opening of his report, was something that interested both of us, the appearance of the head of the Shin Bet Internal Security Services in Khan Yunus itself. What do we make of this appearance? First of all, my personal remark, I know that the Shabbat many years worked with them very closely in the military. This is the first time I see such an appearance of head of the Shabbat with the military in the territory of Gaza. And this is just to, it symbolizes, or it is distinguished this war from other wars. This is not just a military war. It is a war where we have to go into civilian population and try to separate Hamas from the civilians. Now, the military is not trained to do so. The Shabbat people, which are part of the military, each group, probably they are, and as the head of the Shabbat mentioned, they are part of the group, of the troop. They're trying to distinguish the innocent citizens if they are so in Gaza from operative of Hamas or people of course fighter of the Hamas. All the targets that are targeted from day one are intelligent driven. Now, one of the problem of the Palestinians, the Hamas, is to understand what the IDF is doing. The IDF is, for that matter, all the military observers in the Arab networks do not understand what the IDF is doing. There's no direct advance of kilometers of distances, but very careful targeting houses, targeting institutions, and then drawing back, then coming back, because this is an intelligence-driven operation. For instance, just to give you one of them, today there is a hospital called Kamal-1, the same as the Joshif Hospital. This hospital was part of the Hamas headquarters, head system of headquarters. They sheltered there. Now, after a few days of blockade, today the military, with the help of the Shabak, is entering this hospital and trying to see who is the citizen, a real refugee, and who are Hamas people sheltering, mingling within their population. So this is what the importance of the visit of Mr. Ronan, it symbolizes in a magnificent way the incorporation of the Shabak in this war. And this is one of the heaviest tasks of the military. So this distinguished innocent population from the Hamas in this part of the world, and it will go on. I believe that there is another task for the Shembe Shabak. It's why to prepare the ground for future operation, because this war will not end in a ceasefire. This war will go on on a small scale, trying to make sure that the Hamas will not gain again. Once it's broken, it's a command post, it's a command system, command control system is broken to smaller factions. This faction will not grow again, will not create any risk or any danger to the villagers surrounding Gaza. So there will be concert raids into areas where the intelligence will come up with targets that was attacking. And I believe the Shembe Shabak already started to work on this direction. Mohanon, thank you very much for that explanation. Hopefully a plan to prevent a power vacuum from filling the time after Hamas. We are going to turn our attention, though, to the north, though, first. The United States wants some explanations of Israel's use of white phosphorus in Lebanon. The chemical is an incendiary with military applications. It creates smoke screens or saturates an area with inextinguishable fire. But if it's used on civilian areas, it can constitute a war crime. Israel has reportedly made use of white phosphorus shells when firing on Hezbollah military positions. But some of those positions have reportedly been mixed in with some civilian areas. There is a legitimate military use for white phosphorus, but that does not include using them on civilians. It means that if you use them, you have to do everything you can to minimize civilian harm. Any time that we provide items like white phosphorus or really anything to another military, we do it with the expectation that it will be used for legitimate purposes and in full keeping with international humanitarian law and the law of armed conflict. So we're looking into this and looking for additional information. And we are going to turn our live eye to the northern border where our Middle Eastern correspondent, Ariel Oseron is standing by. Ariel, we have seen the United States make these statements about the use of white phosphorus in Lebanon. How has this been used in the combat up there? Right, Ariel. So this all started with the Washington Post investigation regarding the use of this white phosphorus bomb in October 16th and the southern Lebanese village of Dahaira. As a result of this use, nine people were injured, three were hospitalized. So following this comment by the White House, we also heard yesterday, IDF spokesperson, Danielle Agari confirmed that indeed the IDF does use these white phosphorus bombs. However, and as Matthew Miller said earlier as we just heard, there are legitimate uses for this. Now the IDF says that it uses this bomb to uncover his fellow positions that are hidden deep under thick foliage in enforced areas claiming that they use it in open areas, indeed not on civilian population. It's also not clear whether those who were injured on that said October 16th incident were combatants or civilians. This is not something that has been independently confirmed. And so the IDF and Israel trying to push back claiming that while there are restrictions of the use of this weapon that should be stated can be dangerous when coming in contact with human skin can cause severe burns and that's why there are limitations for its use. The IDF saying that Hezbollah has entrenched itself all in nature reserves all across southern Lebanon using these nature reserves, these wooded areas to kick off their attacks as a launching pad for also rockets, but also in anticipation for any ground operations. And so given that the IDF says that this is a legitimate Hezbollah target that is its position. However, this does come in the wake of injuries and an investigation by international humanitarian organizations. Thank you very much, Ariel for that update from the Northern Front. We'll be back with you for more later in the show. And we have to turn our eye back to the events of October 7th. 58 Israeli police officers died protecting the party goers of the Nova Festival on that day. It makes it the biggest tragedy in the history of the Israeli police. Sagi was one of the police officers that survived after facing down 14 terrorists himself. Our Moore Ellen has more in this next story. It's Sagi's first time back in the fighting zone of the Nova Festival since October 7th. Barbara, his girlfriend is with him. He brought her for moral support, but returning still made him uneasy. It's hard to bring in a lot of memories, a lot of people that you saw at that day that are not with us today, a lot of memories. I arrived here at six o'clock in the morning for morning shift here in the party. A lot of young people happy, dancing, good vibes. The stage was here in the middle. All the people you can see the picture of the fortunately murdered was here. In the middle was the dancing area. The war room and the firefighter room and all this thing was in the back of the stage. And when I arrived, we were just preparing ourselves to the shift, to secure the area, to make sure everything is OK, everybody is OK. And in about 6.30, kind of, we saw a lot of rockets coming from Gaza into Israel. Police commander that was in the party told us all the officers to go inside the party and stop the music and evacuate everybody out. At first, the police president asked the party goers to lie on the ground. Minutes later, they decided to evacuate them completely. As people were leaving the area, the situation was revealed to be graver than imaginable. Someone from the party ran at me with his phone in his hand and he said to me, my brother is on the line, OK, and someone shot at him on the road, on the main road. Immediately, I took his phone and I ran into the police room and I tell the police officer that was there, take the phone, speak with him. Sagi, together with two other policemen, drove to the location of the shooting. One of them was Eliona Ostafenko. On the main road, only 220 yards from the party area, they encountered first signs of the tragedy that would unfold that day. We get here and over there near the sign, we saw a man just do like this with his hand and we drove to him and he says someone shot at him and we look at his car and we see in the back door a bullet, just a hole of a bullet, he wasn't injured. The civilian told Sagi he saw trucks with people holding weapons. In this moment, I pulled my gun and I take him and went like off the back of the road over there and we lay on the ground. Meanwhile, Eliona and another policeman went back to the party area to report and call for reinforcements. We start to understood what's happening but we thought it's only a few ones that came here and they are still here around somewhere. The three were now driving again, trying to catch up with the terrorists. Finally, they saw a car on the side of the road. In this place, we saw a white van and we saw a man lying on the floor near the van and he just put his hand on his belly and screamed. So me and Eliona, I get off the police car and start to talk to him and when I pulled up his shirt, I saw a big hole in his belly because of a bullet and I said to Eliona, start to make a pressure and I get into the van from the other side, I open the door and I see a guy laying on his back with his eyes open and I check if the pulse or something like this and he didn't have anything, it was a murder. While Sagi and Eliona tended to the wounded, the third policeman drove back to fetch the medical teams. So we are here only me and Eliona with no communication, no car, anything, we stay with injured people and then we saw two jeeps that come at us and they park like 100, 150 meters from us and from each jeep get off something like six or seven terrorists each, so it's like 12 or 14, 14 terrorists. And they're just starting to shoot at us. The two were standing in an open field. While outnumbered, the terrorists were also better armed with rifles and RPGs. Eliona and Sagi had their personal weapons and two magazines with 15 bullets each. Sagi dragged the wounded civilian to the other side of the van and exchange of fire began as they tried to shoot back, but they realized they didn't stand a chance. Under fire, they both ran as fast as they could. And then the second before they reached the water pipe, Eliona was hit. One or two meters from the pipe, Eliona said to me, I'm hit and she held her breath and she is failing over here. And I get here behind this pipe and I lie right here and my head is behind this pipe and I'm right here and with my pistol I shoot at them and they shoot at me like tons of bullets. The terrorists went back to the van to make sure the two wounded civilians were dead. One against 14 terrorists. What chance did Sagi have? And he goes over his knees and he shoots the RPG on me and the RPG is exploding like 10, 15 meters behind me. The 14 terrorists came into Sagi's direction. He played dead and didn't shoot back. And then I see two army choppers just getting from this way to this way above this field and the terrorists see the chopper. And they take three RPG and they shoot on the chopper. Luckily, they missed, but now the terrorists, for some inexplicable reason, go back on their jeeps and flee. In this moment, I check Elona's leg here and fortunately, she murdered. Eliona Ostefenko was killed at the age of 25 in total, 50 years. In total, 58 police officers died protecting the party-goers of the Nova Festival on October 7, making it the biggest tragedy in the history of Israeli police. I think are going just to the terrorist direction. And I ran to the road and just stop, stop, stop. Sagi could still spot the terrorists on the side of the road and I ran to the road and I ran to the road and I ran to the road waiting for more cars to cross. He updated the soldier inside the car. The two did a U-turn in the intersection nearby. They saw a group of 100 Nova Festival survivors. He took charge and put them all in a safe room. The soldier is civilian with a gun and Sagi guarded the entrance of the safe room for hours until the IDF was able to extract them to a safe location. Over two months have passed and beautiful fields that on October 7 became the landscape of an unimaginable horror movie are now again peaceful thanks to the men and women who put their lives in the line to save others. And we're going to go on a short break but when we come back we're going to immediately move to the northern border where rockets were fired at the town of Akker not just a few minutes ago so stay with us all the war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where is she as our soldiers are fighting on the front line but the general perception is something that certainly needs to be fought as well. Thanks for staying with us. We're going to open up immediately with our Middle East correspondent Ariel O'Sarran who is standing by live in Israel's north Ariel, rocket fire from the north only a few minutes ago walk us through the latest developments on that front. Right Ariel so about 15 minutes ago an alert siren sounded in multiple areas in the western Galilee also in the border community of Shnomi but also further south in the coastal city of Akker or Akko as it's called in Hebrew according to Israel's emergency services Mada there have been no injuries as a result of this attack but this comes at the heels just an hour, hour and a half after another launch of a drone towards Israel the IDF saying its aerial defense systems were activated following a suspicious aerial target that infiltrated into Israeli territory now there was no specification whether this drone was or the suspicious aerial target was indeed intercepted but the IDF's home front command saying that the incident has is now over Lebanese side claiming claims that or even images coming out of IDF interceptor from this attack falling on a car outside a school in the southern village of Yatar that is close to the other side of the border from Shnomi where the sirens were heard no reports of injuries there but this all happening in a span of an hour hour and a half as the border here continues to heat up today following 65 days of war between Israel and Hezbollah on this Israel-Lebanon border well thank you very much Arielle for the update from the north we will be back with you later in the show as we know more about the situation that said we are going to return to Hanan Geff and Brigadier General Hanan Geff and in the studio Hanan I want to open with you on Hezbollah you described this escalating fire we are seeing as a form of wordless dialogue going on with Hezbollah about what their position is going to be in this final accounting in the war what do you mean by that actually we have already experienced two months and more and days are counting what we have seen compared to the past Hezbollah is very strict in his way he is reacting and Israel again contrary to the past is more active every day is enlarging the targets arsenal is growing Israel is targeting much more targets that it used to do in the past now and Hezbollah is keeping very strict to this to this equality equation Nasrallah was the man the son of the head of Secretary Hezbollah was the one guy that created the thing that called equation and now the equation was in the past it's a quick now this has changed dramatically in the last two months and it's going to more than every day now I believe very you know just deducting from what you've seen this is the kind of dialogue through artillery and exchange of fire there is establishing kind of entrance to the diplomatic negotiation which is running in the background the friends are running and others Saudis and probably others are running some negotiations trying to find a solution going on and the terms Israel presented are very strict are very I would say different from what Hezbollah were used to Israel is not asking for peace or quiet Hezbollah must withdraw withdraw back from the border north of Littani which is about 20 to 40 kilometers far from the border as a precondition to accepting a ceasefire Hezbollah understand it and he's not reacting Hezbollah I would describe it as a cat caught in the lights of a car he's just frozen there and the same 20 targets are targeted day after day the same 20 targets you can run a research and you see 20 targets some of the buildings which are probably deserted are gloriously publicized but Hezbollah is a military gross big achievement and so they are strict they are frozen and I believe they understand that there will be a price that they will have to pay through this kind of negotiation of ongoing ceasefire fire exchange is kind of negotiation they gradually understand that they will have to pay price and I believe in a few days we'll see yesterday there was an occasion the day before yesterday I think one of the village leaders 80 year old guy was unfortunately hit there in Lebanon I expected kind of retaliation because in the past they would have retaliated within hours very ferociously and this time it passed quietly so again it's part of this pattern we have seen for the last two months We're going to continue this discussion in a moment and we're going to turn our eye back to Israel south our correspondent Pierre Kloschen there standing by just outside the border community of Sturro not that long ago we were seeing more rocket attacks in the area walk us to the latest there on that front as well as what we're seeing of IDF activity inside Gaza itself well first of all about half an hour ago there was some rocket fire over Zderot no damage there was rocket fire on the southern city of Ashkelon which is 10 km away from the Gaza border and has been the hardest hit city by rocket fire there were four interceptions no casualties no damage and the operation is going on around the three focal point that have been the three focal point for the past 12 days I'll start from north to south in Betlahia north western part of Gaza city there was a siege according to Palestinian media affiliated to Hamas of the Kamel Adwan hospital for a few days and it seems that the people that are inside the hospital decided to surrender themselves and that could be also a hospital in which Hamas terrorists in civilian clothes obviously were hiding and this is why the army besieged the hospital if the Palestinian media report is true and that would mean that the civilians are going out and then the army is picking up the men and interrogating them on the field immediately in order to gather some immediate intelligence about the whereabouts of terror cells or weapons depots or tunnel shafts and in Bethanun just behind me the same destruction of infrastructure the engineering corp and the Yalom unit which is specialized in tunnels are very busy in either cementing the tunnel shafts with concrete or simply destroying them with explosive charges huge explosive charges obviously in the northern outskirt of Gaza city in Jebalia refugee camp still close combat fierce fighting on a battle-hardened battalion of Hamas but it seems according to the minister of defense who have gallant yesterday evening that these battalions the one in the Jebalia refugee camp and the other one in the southeastern outskirts of Gaza city in Shejaia these battalions slowly but surely crumbling on the verge of collapse he said and that's because the chain of command has been badly hammered 50% at least of the Hamas officers from regiment level to company level have been annihilated and this is why you see more and more Hamas terror is surrendering because they just don't get any orders they feel isolated they don't know if their commanders are alive or just hiding in bunkers and there's a lot of frustration and they decide to surrender themselves in the last focal point is which is encircled with also operations by the 98 division of commando units in the heart of Hamas but from Palestinian media we gather there is fierce fighting on the southeastern outskirts of Hanyounes in El Abasan as well as on the north eastern outskirts of Hanyounes in the community of Bani Suheila there's also bombing in Rafar against a terror faction called the popular resistance committee that made a lot of money during the smuggling through tunnels crossing from Egypt to the Gaza Strip and the fear is that Hamas leaders and hostages could be smuggled back to Egyptian territory Thank you very much Pierre for that report from the south we're going to be talking a little bit more about some of the intelligence coming out of the southern front in the most recent days intelligence reports said that at least 500 prisoners have been taken in combat operations against Hamas and Gaza in the last month in addition to the pictures we've seen in the recent days showing scores of terrorists surrendering to Israeli forces the defense establishment says invaluable information has been extracted from the enemy in interrogations but what does that mean and how does it actually do it to ensure that the information they get isn't just anything but actually good information even when doing an interrogation on battlefield conditions itself well from on this we are joined by Michael Kobe the former head of interrogation at the Shin Bet internal security services Michael it's good to have you with us how does a battlefield interrogation actually work look I think that the battle interrogation is very important for the forces because it's you know in a real time they can act anywhere it's work there is a special intelligence from a 504 unit that interrogate with them inside the battle at the middle of the battle and they must tell us all the truth about all the places they are all the tunnels all the terrorists that they are in that place what do you do if you think he's lying what excuse me the person you're interrogating what do you do if you think he's lying he's trying to lead the troops into a trap I don't think that in that condition you know in those conditions the terrorists will lie they are very afraid they are in shock they know they want to save their lives they must speak and tell us everything in your experience how many of them are willing to talk versus how many of them are so ideological they're going to fight to the death I used to be in a few battles in the past in Lebanon and other places all the terrorists that we interrogated with them during the battle all of them tell us all the truth during the battle they tell everything that we ask you know we ask about names of terrorists we ask about the places that the officers are in everything they are telling us about the weapon that there is if there is you know if they prepare a bomb nearby the forces everything so what sort of information have Israeli soldiers gotten out of these interrogations on the battlefield look they they need you know information of a terrorist hidden you know in nearby and about bombs that they prepare to the forces and of course everything about the area about the battle now I understand that you yourself interrogated several of the highest profile names on the list when it comes down to Hamas and other terrorist leadership who were some of them and who how are they so relevant in the current conflict still look I generally interrogated you know inside a room you know terrorists that they were arrested and they bring us they bring them to you know to my office for example at 9 I interrogated with 500 people belong to the Hamas members of the Hamas it's all started at 1983 when Ahmad Yassid decided to build you know the Mujama it used to call Mujama before the Hamas name and he started to build a new organization very radical to you know to go with the Jihad now we're also hearing reports now that Marwan Bargoudi may be released as part of a future deal were you involved in the interrogation of Bargoudi and what do we know about him now I wasn't involved in Bargoudi interrogation but I'm sure he wouldn't release I'm sure he wouldn't never release you know he's taking care for a few you know suicide bombing in Jerusalem he himself he wasn't inside but he sent those people to do that suicide bombing okay and never be released you mentioned because we had been talking so much about these battlefield interrogations a moment ago and you mentioned that you were doing more controlled situation interrogations what sort of difference do we see in what's done in those interrogations and what sort of information we get out of them look generally all the terrorists are talking it's dependent after a few minutes or one hour you know during the battle we need the intelligence very immediately we have to know immediately if there are terrorists nearby if they prepare any kind of bomb against the soldiers and etc but during the interrogation in a room it's other things I never saw one of the technique that didn't talk at the end they are talking if it's a ticking bomb of course we have to use a physical power against them Thank you very much Michael for helping us understand how the information is gotten and how you make sure it's true now we still have Hanan Geffen in the studio with us to discuss this more from one intelligence side to the other he gets the information you guys use the information walk us through the sort of pipeline we see from interrogation to battlefield targets well there are many kinds here one of the mentioned here is and he mentioned Unit 504 all interrogating boss Shabak the internal security guys and 504 military guys they are trained people trained directly to the information to the local commander this information will be sent later back for further discussion but immediately this kind of information is used especially in this populated warfare you have to use this information because you are not moving you have to be very careful for booby traps but they try to prepare so this information is very useful but in the background there is a lot of intelligence being done Gaza is constantly monitored from the air we know exactly everywhere everything is done and it's not a coincidence that during the ceasefire the Hamas insisted that this kind of reconnaissance constant air surveillance will be stopped because they know the movement for each place there are soldiers and girls soldiers many of them they are girls soldiers that they know the vicinity so well that know this kind of moving from one place to another is strange is something that we have to watch so the intelligence guy in the back room getting used to know the terrain the kilometer on kilometer or this kind of dimension and they can move the commander in that place directly so this is another kind of information now they combine another kind of information from several sources and sending it directly together with the information the commander gets in field is working according to very carefully slowly we know that we are working slowly populated dangerous area so this is the intelligence contribution and this warfare from the beginning totally different warfare and this is combined with another thing and this warfare is very visible the blackout the IDF is using to make sure that the information is not going out I don't think so lines advance of the military is running and it's on purpose absolutely we're seeing that pay dividends in the speed of the advance plan on thank you so much for explaining everything that we've been seeing we are though going to turn our attention now to Kibbutz Bairi that's a name that's become synonymous with sadism murder and the worst horrors a human being can witness but also a place where life still has to go on despite a gaping wound left in the community more in this report those are the members of the Kibbutz that used to work in the print and were murdered part of the modern 90 people that were murdered on the 7th of October of Saturday we have here people that I know for more than 40 years part of them are from my class in the Kibbutz part of them I worked with for over 25 years at the bottom we have the picture of Yossi Sharabi which is he is abducted with his brother Eli Sharabi and the last person to be added to this wall is Saar Baruch may he rest in peace we heard about it on Saturday Igal Shaitri's former classmates include Gil Buyum who was murdered with his son and Oron Birah who was killed with his wife and two children including his daughter Tahir also an employee of the company in all almost 90 people from Kibbutz Beri were killed including children but barely a week after the October 7th massacres the printing works resumed its activities he is 80 years old he comes to work every day from Yama Melach to Beri he just the last person that was added to the wall is Saar Baruch he is his grandson his wife was murdered on the Saturday the 7th his other grandson was murdered on the Saturday of the 7th of October and it comes every day to work this is a story of of strength of belief of everything that means Kibbutz Beri Otfuz Beri look at this person, it's amazing Natasha Cohen also works at the printing works she and her family have lived on Kibbutz Beri for 32 years on October 7th when the numerous rocket alerts began to sound around 6.30 am we heard a motorcycle and I looked at my husband and I said to him OD8 must be from the party they probably ran in a way to tell them to come in so he went right up to the fence and I had a look and as it came by I was busy trying to calm my dog down so I didn't see them because the fence is about this far and then he said to me I saw two terrorists on a motorcycle with machine guns and I looked at them and I said you know you couldn't fathom terrorists it sounds crazy you know who rockets we used to not terrorists Natasha and her family were very lucky because she lives only a few meters from the attacked neighborhood and the terrorists saw her husband Natasha's family had to stay in the safe room at 7 am until 11 pm that horrible feeling of sitting in your safety room when friends are shouting for help and screaming to help and you you've got this useless feeling you can't do anything about it just reading the messages and trying to call for help and we were waiting you know for the army to come in time goes by when you realize the army is not coming in and your friends are shouting for help and there's nothing you can do you realize there's a big problem because if the army's not here something's definitely gone wrong several employees of the printing works accounting department were murdered on October 7th Natasha who was in charge of the kibbutz's finances resumed her work at the printing works a few weeks ago first remotely and then a few days ago on site having decided to move back I didn't think I'd ever come back to bury thinking to myself how could I ever come come back to a place where I wouldn't feel safe again but within a very short time after that you start getting angry and you think they've taken everything they've ripped everything under your feet you know taking your security your friends family members taking my home away from me as well because we were basically fugitives in our own country and I think it was the anger of you know the humiliation of me not having my own home and them trying to take that from me as well is what it made me decide to come back the print house started to work on the second week I think second week after the October 7th because of two things two main things one it's vital for us for us all it's a show of normalcy and a time that there's no normalcy we don't even have the language to describe what happened to us after the 7th of October what you see here it's not less than amazing beyond the strength and resilience as I said before it's a beacon most of the employees that are working on day to day they're not from the kibbutz now they're from all over the area and they come on daily basis because it's a it's part of their life since their second home the berri printing works founded in 1950 is the largest in israel it employs 350 people it is here that a huge number of official documents including credit cards checkbooks and drivers licenses are printed for the whole country miraculously the printing works was hardly touched by the terrorists however bullet holes can be seen here and there especially on windows but also on this TV set a little further along the kibbutz's pathways are destroyed houses as far as the eye can see among them eagles on October 7th he was not there with emotion he shows us what's left over what he calls his fortress this is our home most of us plan to come back when it's available other people won't be able to come back emotionally this home berri suffered on the 7th of October suffered a lot and I believe from this suffering will have growth a hope imprinted in every kibbutz resident and we're going to be right back after a short three minute break so stay with us made for me a unique concept in israel custom made men's fashion to your measurements made for me designer of all your events schedule your appointment at www.madeforme.co.il made for me official dresser of i24 news good evening ladies and gentlemen there are phrases that you know from where you come from and you recharge that you know where you're going on international charges rd access our website www.recargas.tis.com.b select the charges and type the number that you want to place the charge also they receive the double balance in charges of 8 dollars or more altis the global network of the dominicans is in a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where is she to be fought as well this week on news 24 Israel under attack news 24 in spanish bring the analysis and the information of the events of the war iron swords exclusive interviews and reports from the war zone the reaction of the spanish-speaking countries news 24 the only medium in spanish that keeps you informed and connected with the latin community in israel news 24 only in spanish news thank you for staying with us we're going to first take a look at israel's northern border again our middle east correspondent ariel osaron is standing by at that border some very intense fighting on the northern front over the past 24 hours what are we seeing today ariel right ariel we're seeing a continuation of the cross border fire with just 20 minutes ago rocket alert siren sounding of shlomi there are no reports of injuries in that incident and that comes at the heels of another rocket another barrage of rockets also to shlomi also to aqua the northern coastal city of acre and according to israel's emergency services those incidents as well did not result in any injuries and earlier earlier there were drone infiltration siren sounded in multiple border communities the idf saying that it's a ariel defense systems did identify suspected ariel target and they had launched some interceptors the incident has been is over but no confirmation as to whether this drone was intercepted on the lebanese side that claims that said interceptors some fell on civilian cars no injuries in that incident and that shows that not only the weather but the situation the security situation along the israel lebanon border can change in a moment's notice absolutely and we still have no idea where that's going to end ariel thank you very much for that update from the northern front now we are joined in studio by donnie ilone former israeli ambassador to the us as well as deputy foreign minister i want to jump more into the weeds here on what we're seeing with the americans the americans are very concerned about the action on israel's northern border as well they have been very very clear since the beginning they want nothing less than a regional war to break out here now we're seeing the americans mixed messages with the south the idea of a time frame that israel has to wrap the war up on but also making sure that israel knows that the goals to finish hamas are not to be lost what's going on with the american messaging here well seemingly this is quite contradictory messaging but i would say that nearest i can tell they're really keeping and even kill with israel with the goal keeping the eyes on the ball of eliminating hamas as a viable entity that could either govern gaza or even later on and this is very important ariel and this is why it is so important for the americans to do away with hamas because when they speak about division you know a political process with the palestinians they understand that with hamas there is no chance for a viable political process this is why they want to do away with them secondly they understand also that this very nefarious consequence for the region if hamas if we end up this war short of eliminating hamas if hamas is keeps standing even even you know very feebly but still standing that would be a maybe a military a tactical achievement but a real strategic failure because the reason the region itself will tilt towards anarchy and towards extremism it will be a victory for iran and its proxies and now we see as everybody's acting up this is also a direct threat to american interest so this is why i'm optimistic that they will keep with the supporting israel and it's not a matter of time frame it's not time frame which is dependent on this on the calendar but it is dependent upon achievements and developments on the ground I want to go more into some of the united states visions for hamas because you mentioned that they recognize hamas cannot be a political entity they cannot be reasoned with they cannot be negotiated with but they are insistent on so they're calling a revitalized palestinian authority many in israel see that as a non-starter given the groups terrorist past and the fact that the claims that they make are not drastically different than the claims that hamas makes is the united states correct they cannot be treated with the exact same gloves as hamas well they're correct with the vision but I think there is I wouldn't want to blame them for not really they understand the details as well you know and here I would say the devil is definitely in the details and here it will all depend on how much will they want to invest in terms of political capital in terms of money in terms of together a coalition of arab countries that can really support a quote unquote a revitalized palestinian authority there's nothing new about it I am a graduate of a new and revitalized palestinian authority in 2004 this was in the wake of the defensive shield at that time the americans also understanding together with israel that arafat was no partner so the idea was to remove arafat and bring who abumazen abumazen was you know a sweet talker but on the ground nothing changed support of terrorism financing of terrorism delegitimizing israel in the heiga tribunal and anywhere else not a partner I think now since we are we have experience already israel should demand okay let's say if we do that it shouldn't be the same experience of 2004 where we just change heads we need to change the political culture all together and for that I think it would be wise for israel not to say no no no to anything but to say yes but we're going to see if there's a mechanism to do that we're going to be back to this discussion in a brief moment first though I do want to turn our attention to the south where our correspondent Pierre Kloschen there is standing by just outside the border town of sterot Pierre more rocket attacks in the last hour or so walk us to the latest that we're seeing come out of the Gaza Strip and also what we know about the latest troop movements inside well I want to talk to you about a front that is quite ignored in that war and it's a real front that's the humanitarian front they are constant effort by the israeli army calling urging the population to leave the battleground wherever it is and there are three focal points right now which is the Jebalia refugee camp the southeast south cut of Gaza city and Hanyounes the major city in the central Gaza Strip but there is every day two access of humanitarian access which allow the population to move south and to leave the battleground now the problem is that creates a humanitarian problem because 80% or over 80% according to the UN organization are now in the southern part of the Gaza Strip which means instead of 2.2 million people spread out on 360 square kilometers you have 2 million people more or less squeezed into 180 square kilometers and the needs are dire for the non-involved population so in addition to the humanitarian access there's been always one crossing point between Egypt and Israel which allows the passing of humanitarian aid to the Rafa crossing which is at an hour drive from the Nitzana border crossing now there is a new border crossing which has been added to the humanitarian efforts which will allow to double up the humanitarian assistance to the non-involved population for instance water, food, medicine material to build shelters even fuel which was a big issue within the Israeli government as well as cooking gas for the population the problem is now that two crossing are open is that with the humanitarian aid that prolongs the war according to military experts why? because some of that aid is captated is looted by the Hamas terrorists we've seen videos of Hamas terrorists on top of trucks taking just hijacking the trucks for their own terror purposes that risk prolonging the war in the sense that the dismantlement of Hamas might take longer but at the same time Israel came to the conclusion that if it want to have a real if it want to fulfill its objective of dismantling Hamas you need time and you need diplomatic support from the international community especially the US and thus if at the beginning of the war while Israel was still in state of shock because of the October 7 massacre and the government was preparing actively the ground offensive and the bombing campaign and didn't really think about fuel and cooking gas now it's become an issue it's become something that the Israeli governments must accept in order to the war and fulfill the mission that has been given by the Israeli government well thank you very much Pierre for that report from the south on the humanitarian situation and the position of the United States it's worth noting the United States has vowed to support Israel until Hamas is defeated US President Joe Biden specifically saying weapons will continue to flow to arm Israel's military during the conflict but America's Congress is still playing political games with 14 billion dollars worth of military aid even as in the institution looks for loopholes to send ammunition to Israel and bypass Congress entirely so just how did Israel become so dependent on US arm shipments in the first place Israel is noteworthy for being one of the biggest arms exporters on earth coming in at 10th place this year that's far in excess of Israel's tiny population but if Israel is so prolific at making and selling weapons why doesn't it make enough to supply its own military why must the IDF always fight on America's leash well for more on this we are joined by Brigadier General reservist professor Jacob Nagle senior fellow for the foundation for defensive democracies and former national security advisor Jacob thank you very much for being with us it's also worth noting that Donny Ilone is still in the studio with us I believe the two of you know each other rather well so feel free to jump in in this conversation because both of you have plenty of experiences at all angles here Jacob we are going to open with you though the big question how did Israel become so dependent on the United States for arms given that Israel is a major producer of arms itself you are saying something that is partially right and partially wrong Israel is not dependent on ammunition on the United States it's a decision because you know I signed with the United States in 2016 the 38 billion dollar 10 years MOU with the United States so there are things that because the United States is giving us this aid we are obliged to buy some of this ammunition in the United States Israel by itself and you have to differentiate between main platforms and ammunition Israel can produce all the ammunition that it needs for itself it's needed only one thing it needs to be after a decision that we want to do it so we will prepare in Israel in advance because to build a production line takes about 18 to 24 months so if I buy it Israel decide that Israel wants this and this amount of ammunition and the amount of money in shekels is going to be put aside we can build our production lines and we can produce as much as we can the problem in the past and again someone will call it a problem someone will call it invented is that there in some areas we are we said that it's better and it's sometimes easier to collect this ammunition from the United States if the aid is coming and the United States like Jadam we have American Jadam we have an Israeli Jadam there are things for example you are showing now the pictures of Iron Dome and other things Iron Dome it's an Israeli program Iron Dome it's an Israeli missile now we are producing 50% of the missile in the United States American money but we are also producing these missiles 100% in Israel if we want to continue to produce it 100% in Israel opening production line in Israel we will have 100% if we will open more production line in the United States we will have it in the United States so it's not a dependency it's a decision for now this decision is working I think that after the war to look in our defense budget it's for sure going to be changed it's going to be bigger but it's also going to be changed for example Merkavatang, Namer some of those parts we can buy in the United States industry some not because they are not producing it so at the end it's a matter of decision for example main platforms we are not producing F-16 or F-15 or F-35 in Israel thus we are going to continue to buy from the United States with the generous aid of the FMF money so it all depends on what you really want to do and how you are planned in advance I think it's your right it's not good to be in a situation that you are dependent in the United States to get ammunition in the middle of a war and that's actually a good point a good time to bring Danny into the conversation as well because it seems to me maybe a cynical view that perhaps the United States benefits from in a sense undermining Israel's capacity to produce itself something we see every time Israel talks about alternative suppliers or investing heavily in its own industry the aid package seems to increase to try to put that off does the United States see a reason does it want to keep Israel on a short leash well I don't think so but we must understand that there is a competition some will say a healthy competitive relationship between the defense industries both here and in the United States this is why the FMF is so important because we can get from the United States things that we do not need to invest in here whether it's production lines or any kind of other economic assets which may at the end of the day be more expensive so it's mostly an economic game you know where can you get if you can get the JDAMS far cheaper in the United States the military you know concerning about their own budgets would like to do with that of course there is some strategic ramification because then it creates and builds some political dependence which we do not like but I think that in the last 10-20 years two decades for sure there have been a degrading in terms of Israeli caches the stockpiles because of different assessments we saw the poor deployment of the military forget the intelligence colossal failure but also it was a deployment also the military was actually cutting down in terms of force formation you know less armored divisions less munitions in the stockpiles because their thinking was that maybe we're coming or we're in the midst of a more quiet strategic time now there is a big big wake up call for all of us here and that also will include the military industry where I'm sure that more and more production will be moved from the United States over here to Israel that's going to bring Jacob back in because if we are talking about scaling backup production is there a theoretical maximum on what that might be and on top of that we are talking about production lines that exist here as you said but what about the basic compounds that Israel needs and the basic components that go into that does Israel really make everything or have the capacity to make everything at every step of the journey first of all I have to I think Danny said very accurate things but I want to make someone something sure that everyone understands according to the American laws and rules FMF money cannot be we cannot use it to do R&D for some people sometimes say we get money from the United States sometimes it was an OSP money that we can spend in Israel and we are enhancing our R&D and then we are competing the United States our R&D is done by using our Israeli shekels I'm not talking about what I call a cooperation things that we are doing together for example Errol and Irondo and David Sling for example Irondo all the R&D was Israeli so it's a blue and white program now about what you said before and again I don't think and I agree with Danny that United States don't want to put us in a really short leash because everything that we want to develop and produce by ourselves and we have the budget to do it we are doing it our national security strategy for the last few years almost 20 years started in Ben Gurion but was strengthened later in 2010 by Netanyahu is that we are we have four pillars deterrence we have early warning we have defense and we have decisive victory now we found out in October 7 that deterrence and early warning are not working against terror activities so we cut now we cut a lot the ground forces mostly the ground forces the armor forces some of the ammunition and stockpiles and we spend most of our money on intelligence and air force intelligence for early warning and air force for deterrence and to make sure that we can protect our borders until our reserve forces are being recruited after 7th of October we learned and we left to adapt our national security strategy to make sure that it will fit also against terrorists because terrorists you cannot deter and terrorists we found out that early warning you cannot count on it because the 7th of October timing of the attack was known almost to about four people four people no matter how good intelligence you live if four people knows it probably we are not going to know it in advance so we can change our industry we can build more production line here we can build more production line in the United States we must have for our most sophisticated and important systems we must build redundancy production line in Israel and in the United States and I count the United States really wants the security for the state of Israel so there are areas that we are not competing with the United States there are areas that we are competing for example anti-attack missiles we have the spike we have the javelin and we are competing in the world none of the American money goes for for example for anti-tank missiles and there are some other things and there are things that we are cooperating for example the trophy that is now saving lives in Gaza is now going to save lives also of American forces because the United States decided to buy the trophy for the United States army and we have the same for other things I hope for example the United States will buy more iron domes they bought two batteries now they send us now looking for it the special forces other are looking for it and the same for David's link those are two systems the United States need for example error the United States don't need the F-tad so we have our error for ourselves and we build it together with the generous help of the United States I want to bring up a theme that we've had that Israel and the United States interests converge when it comes down to Israel's military procurements and Israel's arms industry Danny I want to bring you into the conversation again here because we are seeing some discussion in the US Senate about conditioning the aid to Israel on how it interacts with the Palestinians as well and while at the moment America has Israel's back do we see the possibility of a future where Israel does need to be so much more America might start putting on Israel are simply things that Israel can't accept well I think it's always good to strive to become as much as possible self-sufficient part of the self-sufficiency was also with the Americans about the prepositioning where the United States had stockpiles right here in Israel that we could use of course with their permission in times of crisis and an emergency but this is not a substitute of becoming self-sufficient and certainly not on big platforms like airplanes but anything else I think it would be very wise for us to invest more right now especially as you see that the world at large is moving into a more instability which will lend itself to countries procuring much more defense you know defense elements and that you know we saw it in the Ukraine we see it in Southeast Asia and of course here now in the Middle East in the Gulf with the Houthis acting up so as you mentioned Israel was number 10 in the world in terms of our size of our military industry and our exports I think this is something that we will be very very importantly investing in and better sooner than later but yeah your response I have one more sentence to say and it's very important I remember the negotiation on the last MOU that we signed 2016 and it's ineffective from 2018 took three years and it was at the end only three pages of an agreement now you talked about very important thing conditional aid I belong to those say if there is conditions on the aid I don't want the aid and I know that the United States most of the people there agree with me and when we came to the room there was two things that we agreed in the beginning no conditions for example if you remember it was immediate after immediately after the JCPOA the signing of the Iranian agreement so we said if you are going to condition the aid of Israel changing its attitude against the JCPOA I am leaving the room no agreement we will wait for the next administration the second thing was if you want to condition the aid with some Israel behavior or making some concessions for the Palestinians or for other things we are leaving the room the same from both sides the worst thing that was decided no conditions on the aid now at the end I know that it looks like maybe a joke but it's not the FMF and the aid from the United States to Israel it's very very helpful and very important for Israel but it also have a lot of importance and help for the United States because we don't want the United States to fight for us here we are the wall that keeping the American standards and the American interest in the Middle East so sometimes it's much cheaper for the United States to give this aid to Israel then to fight in Afghanistan or in other place you know a year of aid from the United States to Israel it's about 3 to 4 days of American war in Afghanistan so at the end it's much cheaper and again when we are producing things that we can do in Israel or in the United States it's not always that the United States is cheaper it's cheaper because we call it the color of the money because they are using FMF the numbers are mind boggling when you put it in that perspective Jacob we thank you very much but we are out of time we have to go to a commercial break so thank you so much for breaking that down Jacob, Danny and everyone else we'll be right back Israel is in a state of war families completely done down in their beds we have no idea where is she it's something that certainly needs to to be fought as well what I saw today was unbelievable the devastation on the homes the destruction the scenes still that you could imagine of what happened it was like something out of a movie and still also the smell the overpowering it was an important day for me and to show the viewers of I-24 news but it was a difficult challenging day in the form of Yaniv Ohana to see basically a modern day pogrom and to feel the vulnerability you know we live in Israel we are so dependent on the army and the government and authorities to provide security to see how all of that can be overturned in the course of one day I think it really makes us understand how fragile our lives are and how much we are going to have to fight for our existence, our very existence in this corner of the world welcome to this special broadcast on I-24 news I'm Khaled Bendevi this month marks the 38 years since I started as a journalist in Israel and nothing was like the last two months this has been the most challenging, most emotional most heartbreaking and in some ways the most complex story that I've had to cover during that time and never I felt the kind of responsibility that I had to present this story to the world in the right context with the right facts and to really speak truth to power in this situation Head of the International Red Cross is set to arrive in Israel next week for a meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu the international agency has faced some fierce criticism in Israel and abroad in action in working to access the hostages and even more for their perceived bias and condemnations there have been organizations issuing 11 times as many criticisms of Israel as they have of Hamas in their international statements well we are going to cover that in a brief moment with some visuals here but we do have one other thing we wanted to address first as well because we were discussing the hostages a bit of a mess up in our system here that of course being some of the received information of the hostages people only now getting the first bit of information on their loved ones providing a drop of certainty in a sea of uncertainty and emphasizing how critical the situation is and how acute the struggle to bring them home is more in this next report before we go to the ICRC It's been 65 days since Yoni's daughter Nama was kidnapped to Gaza the chilling video of her abduction has become a symbol of cruelty and harm to young women and the danger they are in when the children began to return from captivity some of the girls returned with braids in their hair braids that Nama's parents know closely maybe it's stories we tell ourselves Nama did a lot of triathlons in her youth and this is exactly the way they used to do these braids imagining her sitting and doing braids for a little girl she took care of is something that could actually sound normal yes it certainly warms the heart but for a relatively limited time since then a real sign of life has arrived abductees who saw Nama and were with her before they were released called Yoni and said they had met her she is injured but alive the first feeling is there is air you can breathe again but it lasted a few hours until the evidence came Nama is 19 years old she's a girl she has quite a few girls with her young girls we all understand their vulnerability the potential harm that can be done to them and the feeling that those who are running the war there's no one to trust they're the only ones we can put our trust in but as long as they don't give the most basic sense of security it actually causes this cry to be doubled and doubled I received a call from someone who was with him he asked them to call me and gave my phone number he literally said this is the number please call her and tell her that I'm alive and that they should do everything possible to get me out the last time she heard from him was when he and their mother hid in the safe room in a bed under the blankets and their father left and never returned after a few days she found out her parents were murdered and Itai was kidnapped in the message he conveyed to her through the abductees she understood for the first time what was happening that morning Itai told the hostages that were with him on October 7th they were in the safe room they covered themselves with blankets and then the terrorists started shooting at them my mother must have shouted that she was injured and probably died I hoped at least she died quickly and didn't suffer but Itai already knew she was dead it seemed that he was injured by something and he probably stood up according to what I understood and then they took him away and so that's why I say they actually shot him and he didn't die miraculously he didn't die and since then he has been in constant fear of death until this moment when you receive such a sign of life does it give hope or does it do the opposite there's this kind of sigh of relief for a moment that he's alive but then I also understand that he's in the worst mental and emotional state first I could never actually imagine and even more than that because until then I couldn't imagine it at all I didn't allow myself to imagine where he was and now suddenly it became tangible I was told that he was very very fearful and that he's very scared I heard that from the words he said to them from the conversations that were held there that this is not the Itaiano you must understand that even if the swaps return according to the list at the moment Itai will not be the first to come back first of all I'm not ready to accept it it's very easy to make categories but no there are people there waiting to be taken out and every minute that passes they are in danger do you think the dog feels it too yes she misses him as well since that Friday when the swaps stopped and the fighting resumed the atmosphere has changed the same breathing space that returned for a moment gave way to great concern to Naama and Itai and to other hostages and the understanding that there is no time I'm the father whose daughter has been in hell for 61 days and my feeling as a father of such a girl is that I can't help her I can't save her and that's the backdrop the pain of families of Israeli hostages held by Hamas as the head of the international Red Cross is set to arrive and we'll meet with many of those families to address well what the international agency can do we are joined by Sarah Davies the public relations officer joining us from Jerusalem thank you very much Sarah for being with us I want to open up with that point the president of the ICRC we'll be meeting with the families this coming week what will she be telling them what sort of comfort can she offer thank you so much firstly for having me as the president does plan to visit Israel and meet with the families of these hostages we do need to remember she has met with families multiple times in Geneva our main concern her main concern during these conversations is giving the families a space to discuss their concerns, their frustrations their feelings, their emotions I mean this is not a scenario that people could have expected and this has ripped people's lives apart our main concern during these conversations is to continue to reiterate that we are relentlessly working behind the scenes as well as publicly to call for the immediate release of those who are still unfortunately held hostage as well as our immediate access so that we can check on their welfare provide any medical treatment and of course really reestablish that contact between these family members who are desperately and have been desperately waiting for news from more than two months now now one of the things we've seen these families demand and one of the biggest complaints is that the ICRC has not had any access to these hostages to know if they're alive, if they're dead what physical condition they are in and one of the criticisms they've had is that the ICRC has not used any leverage to try to get access we've seen them make demands such as conditioning aid to Gaza on getting that access if that's the only lever you have there are other levers, what are they and are they being used? Thank you, I think this is as you said a big topic of discussion and something that is very important to clarify so we are a neutral organization we do not stand on any side of a conflict, we stand with the civilians who are impacted while we have not yet been granted access or been given the correct conditions to access the hostages and check on their well-being and their medical needs this needs to happen at a political level disagreement, it is a very frustrating answer, we are well aware this is not always a popular position for our organization to be in but for us to try and force our way in we don't have weapons we do not have political affiliations our work, our organization for 160 years now has been to work to provide support and assistance for civilians wherever they may be that have been impacted by the conflict we will continue to do this behind closed doors as I said in direct discussion face-to-face the leaders of Hamas as well as any other authorities, political individuals states, armed groups we are really relentlessly activating every mechanism that we have to continue these discussions and make our calls our insist to see the hostages known now one of the things you mentioned is that the ICRC claims to have zero political affiliation I think the biggest criticism I've seen here in Israel from the leadership level all the way down to the streets is that when we look at the public statements made online by the ICRC a mathematical breakdown of those statements shows that 77% solely condemn Israel while only 7% solely criticize Hamas that's an 11 times difference how do we count for that discrepancy if there's no political bias I think first of all we need to remember that what is posted on social media on our webpage this is not the entire picture of what our work I think you will find that in a lot of our posts in many if not all of our public communications we are very much focusing on the impact of civilians very rarely do we come out and use things in terms like condemnation of any specific side our concern about people civilians who are not part of the impact of this is we're ever going to find a specific apologies can you hear me out I think we've reconnected now sorry what I was saying was in our public communications it's only a part of this picture what we very rarely do is use terms like condemn and name parties this is part of our neutral position this is part of our impartiality our independence if we have concerns about any aspect of an armed conflict we take those concerns directly to the parties who are involved and we have these direct discussions with them this is how we retain that trust that we will not publicly come out and use very much talking about things like condemnation and I think if you do review a lot of our public positions and stances they are very much focused on the impact of the armed hostilities on the civilians themselves rather than judging or blaming one side or another in any armed conflict where we work around the world I want to address one of the other responsibilities of the ICRC in this conflict and this is to oversee much of the aid that is coming into Gaza right now because as you mentioned the massive amount of care needed for the civilian population in an armed conflict zone how is the ICRC ensuring that the aid is actually going to civilians because we've seen videos popping out of Gaza that show and we're seeing this video on screen right now that shows Hamas and other terror groups raiding trucks taking that aid and making sure it goes to the war effort rather than to the civilians that so need it of course and this is a very valid concern in any armed conflict that we see that aid will not go to the civilians but to those parties you are involved in the conflict as an organisation that does work in these volatile situations in these very challenging contexts around the world we have a very thorough a very in-depth multi-layered system and process to ensure that the aid that we distribute goes directly to the civilians who need it whether that be medical supplies to our own surgical team who are working in Gaza right now whether it be things like body bags, things like chlorine tablets any type of assistance that we provide we have a very thorough in-depth system and process to ensure that the civilians who need it are the ones who receive it we also do have as per our mandate around the world a relationship with the local authorities and with Hamas as we have been working in Gaza for decades now this would be part of our discussion, our direct conversation with Hamas if there were any concerns about this I mean we say that there are mechanisms but we saw the video on screen those mechanisms don't appear to be working as well as you hoped for I did not see a video with the Red Cross truck unless I am mistaken there are other agencies but we do I can very confidently say that our concern is getting these supplies to the civilians who need it and ensuring that that is where it goes in a multi-layered system we do it on the ground in regional and in global levels to ensure that the civilians the ones who are not part of this fight are the ones who receive this very very critical aid and you know I still have with me in studio because he's been with me with Danny Allen a former ambassador who has had his own thoughts and insights on this and did want to ask a question as well because there is still a lot of fear of bias a lot of the thoughts that there has not been enough done and we do want to address those claims Danny so I want to give you a chance to jump in Yes well first of all I certainly agree with Ms. Davis about the ICRC not in position of let's say hard power we have armor divisions that they can help them pursue their mission but they do possess enormous amount of soft power in terms of their prestige credibility in terms of their moral authority and I'm afraid all these are going to be lost if they do not bring back the the hostages or at least do not get a list or supply them with much needed medical medicine that they need where do I see the ICRC can work maybe if I humbly suggest in a more effective it is yes behind the scenes it is with with the political power but I think here there should be a consistent pressure on Hamas and all those who master Hamas whether it's Qatar and if the ICRC will bring the the message home that what they're doing is really war crimes which could affect them politically including not having such a prestige and having in Doha international conferences this is something that could work ICRC can do it maybe not out loud in the newspaper but certainly by applying and meeting on a daily basis with leaders around the world and pleading for the hostages and last thing I want to say it's not a real you know it's not the similar when you're talking about the plight in Gaza you know there are the Hamas there is embedded there is of course the population there which are being human shields here we're talking about hostages who were taken out of their bed and children who are nine months old this is a total there's no hierarchy when you come to human lives but there is a hierarchy when it comes to sufferings this is where the ICRC I think should have put all their prestige and political power and I'm not seeing that happening and this is very disappointing how would you respond to that because he does bring up a point there that the credibility of the ICRC is on the line here in this conflict thank you so much I appreciate the chance to have a discussion about this for us not in just this context or this conflict but everywhere around the world we are very aware that this neutrality our position is not always what people would choose this is very emotionally polarizing as you've said we're seeing hundreds if not thousands of people who are suffering the consequences of this conflict and of the attacks on the 7th of October I can very confidently and adamantly say we are pursuing all avenues available to us whether that is on the ground level here whether that is at regional level whether that is our president continually in discussion with multiple world leaders including Prime Minister Netanyahu as well as the Hamas leadership she has gone and spoken to them face to face other delegates other people in the international committee of the Red Cross have done this as well we are activating every single available mechanism to us in order to put this pressure insist out our calls for the immediate release of these hostages and our access to them at the top of our priority list I really cannot emphasize that well of course we do not understand what these families or what these hostages are living through we do know that the suffering that they have experienced having the very fabric of their their lives torn apart is not something that is an easy fix it's not something that people get over we will relentlessly continue to work to do this I can assure you I can assure every family member who has been impacted by this we will continue working to the best about available options we will continue to relentlessly work to ensure that these hostages can be reunited with their families however I would like to add that this does rely on a political negotiation which we do not take any part in well I want to thank you Sarah for helping address much of the criticism that's been leveled at the ICRC because a very difficult situation for everyone involved Danny I'm glad that you could join us to explain why many people do have these criticisms that said we don't have the time to continue this discussion as much as I really would like to because we do have to address well some of the stories that we are hearing from those that have returned from captivity under Hamas's cruel and sadistic control this is the story of Sasharon Aloni Cunio who survived 52 days as a hostage in Gaza with her two little girls before she was released she still fears for her husband held in thrall by Hamas and this is her story three days before she was released three days before we were released they separated David from us they took him into a different hiding place and since then I don't know what is happening to him the girls are torn I'm torn he's been my partner for 10 years he's my other half and the love of my life he's the father of my girls we're asking every day where's dad where's daddy I need to explain to them that he's still out there we need to explain to them that he's still there every minute we're waiting is like a Russian relay will they live through the day or not the conditions are difficult condition no one needs to live in especially not children or adults without medicine we saw that many have already lost their lives in captivity so each moment is critical and we need to do everything to put the aim of releasing all hostages prior to anything else we all have so many triggers every little noise every door slam every airplane flying the girls get charged and cling on to me tantrums because they had to be so quiet for 52 days closed up in a single room this is not a normative situation for a three year old it means not to stay in a crowded loud place because it reminds them of it it means not knocking on doors next to me not to sleep with the door shut life has changed this is not life we had to tell them that it's dangerous outside and here we're safe but with this safety comes rules we need to be quiet we must not be heard because a bad guys will come you need to make up lots of stories and behave in a way that you would never behave at home to keep them quiet in this situation sometimes there was a power cut and they let us open the door and they drew the curtain and then we had to whisper how do you retain a little girl whispering for 12 hours every moment you have to be angry at her tell her quiet, quiet, don't every day there was crying frustration, anxiety how long are we going to stay here for have they forgotten us have they given up on us it's desperation that we'd never thought we'd experience it's a scenario we'd never thought we'd go through our own imagination they burned our house and we had to before we got suffocated from the smoke to leave through the window without knowing if they would shoot at us if we would come out of it alive David climbed out he got Julie I saw the terrorist coming and I shouted to him run away and then I closed the door a few minutes later I opened the window again a terrorist was pointing a weapon at me I screamed to my sister to close the window two shots luckily the shots didn't hit us they hid the window we were about to suffocate to death that's the moment we decided to open the window four terrorists were knocking on our window signaling to us to come out one took me one direction the other three took Danielle Emilia and Emma the other direction and from there we'd been separated we were taken to Gaza we got injured on the way and for ten days we didn't know where Emma where my sister and Emilia were and after ten days miraculously I heard my child cry outside the door after they said they wanted to film us and I said to David this is Emma and he said no it's not Emma and I said to him I'm losing it and then he says then a doctor comes in with Emma in his arms and I thought I was fainting out right then and there we were together almost until the end in unbearable conditions you need to knock on a door to leave to the toilet to ask for basic needs my daughters were already potty trained and I had to revert to using nappies because you knock on the door and you don't know when they'll open it they had to pee in the sink and poo in a trash can you don't know if there will be food or not you don't know it was the first day of the release of the hostages that they separated him from us and for three hours I was begging him don't go I'm broken I don't know how I will cope without you and he said I'm petrified and I said let's send the girls away we'll tell them to take the girls we'll have our families to look after them let me stay here with you it wasn't even an option because they took him away somewhere else I think that everyone needs to understand that not enough is being done in order to free the hostages from the Gaza Strip I can understand about all the other causes that everyone is trying to get but there are 138 people who are suffering inside and they need to be out there's a lot of families without a father without a daughter without a brother without a grandfather grandmother it's like 138 families there