 Hello to you and welcome to the yearly ruby in both Let's make a quick introduction who's here Can you pass around the microphone and start somewhere Start Lucas inactive ruby team member Conrad I'm here to observe and maybe get involved Hi, I'm kind of she'll I'm Recently become an active member ruby team I'm Lucas as well. I recently become a member of the ruby team, too. I'm Matthias I'm not a member of the ruby team I'm just looking at auto package test failures for Ruby packages in Ubuntu My name is Alan. I'm just here to observe and maybe get involved Okay, hi, I'm Christian and Happen to be on the team as well as I'm we we maintain the ruby There is a list of things that We possibly could talk about on gobby. I hope you have seen the gobby invitation Now it is have a list of applications and important packages that Maybe people want to know what we're doing for in stretch Yeah, so from the list Yeah, I personally got the question which version of rails we're going to ship which I have no idea and then I imagine people want to know what's the status of the git lab and maybe red mine and Possibly diaspora and open build service, which I didn't know we ship but apparently we do It doesn't anybody know so rails rails 5 was just released a few days ago, but If we upgrade we immediately break the lab diaspora red mine and OBS So we'll probably be shipping rails 4.2 Unless some miracle happens and all those guys start using rails 5 and I Don't think it's a good idea to have two versions of the archive at the same time So Probably going to be raised 4.2. Okay the club is is more or less working on stable and the Bravini which is the main person driving the efforts dealing with lots of dependency breakage and Every new every new each lab version has new dependencies and changes The versions it wants and it's very complicated. So we are trying to deal with that We've done before with red mine so Red mine up until now we have The latest with upstream release, which is in a good state as far as I know We have some issues on stable I already did three stable updates and maybe you need more because the jesse freeze happened exactly when Before red mine had raised for support upstream. So I had to package a Non-releasing snapshot. It was that or not having red mine and jesse So there are few issues and if people wants to help with red mine I'm interested in mentoring and helping anyone interested. So It's basically figure out why The problems happen and try to backport a page from upstream because obviously we don't We don't want to add a whole new upstream release to jesse. I have no idea about diaspora anyone I guess it's more or less in the same status get to live as far as I know It seems that diaspora upstreams a little less cooperative with us the github people seem to care enough about David to be helpful and Seem that the diaspora upstreams actually hostile to them But the province to So we're going to keep this for anyway As long as Praveen is willing to maintain it. I don't see why not Some people on RSE say the video streams time Okay And OBS And your lease working on it The partnership in stretch So there's gonna be the fourth big rails application on So Pause by las anchor. Sorry mention that they are working on github sick diaspora six. So Maybe we're going to get that And Andrew is not here, right? He's using that probably not Okay, oh Thank you for the update So given recent cleanup efforts We Came to an interesting question. There are these what should the team actually try to package Because we now maintain Last year we maintained over 800 packages many of them are leaf packages that are actually library packages And it's not clear if we should keep those So the general question is are we focusing on packaging applications and Then actively remove all leaf packages that are not applications or are we there to ship everything under the sun and Include and keep all those libraries or not So I'd like to have some discussion I guess on that And apparently now ship over 1,000 packages Thanks, Eric. How's on I see I think so My main motivation is having applications. So I don't package your I don't package random libraries But if people are willing to do that because they're using for local scripts or for Stuff they have that's not packaged but wants to use Packaged libraries and I don't see a problem with that as long as the libraries are maintained and not broken If it's broken nobody cares and we should probably remove but as long as they don't cause problems for us for instance when Upgrading to new versions of the interpreter or being Completely broken. Otherwise, I don't see a problem with the packages staying there if they such to be problems, I I'm all for removing them we certainly don't have the Asterix as we don't have the manpower to package everything and If you look at the list of out-of-date upstream versions, then that's also a very large number by now Yeah, I'm not sure we want to ship old libraries Possibly that will cause security issues I don't know Microphone does the microphone. Okay Well, I think that in many cases No libraries more useful than no package at all. I mean, I don't use any of those applications but I use quite a lot of Libraries that are packaged in the end. Yeah So I think somebody suggested the other day that we have like a We could page listing Important or core libraries that are not dependencies of other packages that we want to keep maybe They are broken It's okay to remove them, but I don't see the point in removing stuff that is not broken We have users they report bugs about stuff that is broken or at least they are supposed to If there's no bug we can assume that it works for everybody Okay, so another cleanup effort Ruby bdb is Now not broken, but it's still very old and it used to break regularly There is no reverse dependency and I mailed a few days ago. I will remove file for removal for this Except anybody says something Yeah, I got some specific case if you have a good reason to remove okay Yeah, I just don't think we should remove just because it doesn't have reverse dependency What is a recommended library to replace Ruby bdb? Good question I don't know the problem with that is upstream is gone. Yeah, I know but I Guess the answer is not use bdb Okay, but I mean Rapper for database access. No, it's back a little bit back lady be all right. I think Licensing for bdb has changed a few years ago also Yeah, then I made some lists Packages that did not see uploads in the last three years. So I think 256 And then Yeah packages that have no reverse dependencies. I did not check for reverse build dependencies indeed But it's quite the list Does that work So about one quarter of our packages Yeah With some of these are obviously broken Even though there are no bugs files, but they don't actually work. So I I manually looked at the first few and Well, they don't actually work If you start or if you just load the library, it crashes So I did not check that So you'd need to manually try in both lists For some libraries in the list that I use in that work fine, so Yeah, I guess the newer ones work even not the newer ones What's your that's over the last year right not the last two years, okay? Yeah, yeah Okay, it's just there's a basic package here that is broken since the rubber sprints that that happened in March That's ruby rails out to link. So yeah, there's there's definitely some package here. They're broken quite some time But you said that there are some that just crush if you load the library. Yeah, that's something that we could test automatically Yeah, I think I think we actually will be you run auto package tests on or see I run auto package test for this but Yeah, then nobody files on our CPAC food So they're failing at Yeah Citric reports that he thinks most of these packages are Probably build dependencies of good web or diaspora So we need to Many many Yeah, maybe we need or I should make a new list excluding build dependencies But anyway Yeah, like packages that haven't been touched in three or four or more years Have yeah, I just don't put if you are going to review them and try to remove them Just don't put just put the bar quite far in the future. I mean probably all those that that are from 2014 up don't need to be reviewed start with the really old ones. Yeah Yeah, I guess the first thing is reported on our C bug. Yeah Well, this is a call for help on testing packages, really And it's maybe looking at all packages. Maybe we just need to start with CI failures. Yeah Things that should be removed but if packages pass CI and no known bugs And I had an action for you to send the email to the list. Yeah information. Yeah in asking Okay, I will do it Does you did these maintain a dashboard list here? I test failures. That's yeah, okay Good. Yeah, so the leaf package list is as yeah, probably not as relevant Then An open point here is do we have any studios for stretch? That are important. I think the interpreter is quite Okay, except that it does not build It does not reprobate And I don't really know why but different scope times out So they're probably too many Tiff's There's also the issue with open SSL 1.1, right, so that's fixed upstream I Think the the plans to have open SSL 1.1 in Jesse Yes, so we'll have to fix that that's fixed upstream trunk but There's an open bug about that and Just don't have the perfect solution yet. So maybe it's back porting the changes in upstream trunk. Maybe it's So it seems that Ruby 2.4 we will remove the open SSL extension from the interpreter package so they will pull the External version But I don't think that's ready right now So the external package didn't have any release on to this point and I open an issue there to ask them to clarify what the status is and How they plan to go forward with that And upstream already knows about that the main main trainer Reply that he will be working on like documenting how his security support going to be But even then maybe that's not something we want to do for Ruby 2.3 especially because I didn't do it Maybe we want to back port Open SSL 1.1 pages for 2.3 and then follow up 3 for 2.4 and rock the embedded copy of open of the open SSL library. Okay Citrix suggestion I see that we should also update packages To the last upstream version where possible I Think that neatly Leads to the next point which I called our depth check here right now. It's Well hard to know if updating a library breaks one of the major applications that we ship And yeah, I don't have a good answer for that I Don't know what other people are doing. I mostly Assuming people are using the helpers scripts in the repository because Check if the package being built is a dependency or one of the List of applications we care about and then test them Before Going to the upload part. Okay From what I understand the At least Hitler has a very tight dependencies in the gem file Mr. True does I already told Praveen that he needs to change that otherwise it's going to be impossible to maintain Okay So I mean, yeah There's all that conversation about semantic version in everything, but I think We get us some upstreams insane every every time I mean some of things are insane, but most of them are not Okay Do you want an action item for doing the changes to the build script to? Yes yeah so Yeah, that was if people are actually using the scripts in our repository. I'm not sure everybody is But they are nice Build and upload is an awesome script if you don't use it. Well, you should really It does almost everything for you Yeah Maybe I don't know maybe we should package those scripts. I mean they're useful not only for the ruby team I mean there said it was really just talking that he used that that is script for almost all package that he does and I mean, I would like to use them not only on the ruby team as well So I think it's gonna be used for everyone if they are packaging. Yeah, okay, sir Right there's a language packaging skills exchange both scheduled for a first day quarter past five where Well, the plan was that the police the pearl and the ruby teams See what tools they're using and how they work What they're what our respective workflows are? So I'd like to invite everybody to come to that both and Then we can discuss Maybe we should merge some of our scripts with the scripts is used by the protein Yeah, they have a lot of useful scripts. Yes they do okay, so Yeah said to exist brilliant upload might need some more documentation Yeah That's probably good idea And then there's another thing I Recently was made aware of git build package patch queue, which is Yeah, a nice tool for managing Davion patches I I well, I like it so far and I propose that People that manage patches in our repo would use that Has anybody I Agree git build package back big page queue is awesome. I use I use it already on some of the team packages including red mine and Maybe others I think rails Okay, so Then an open item on I guess our team wishlist is to Actually know who's active in the team Well, you're here That's good. I Think we're more than 200 people in the early of team Yeah, and Yeah, so the other day I wrote a script that Finds people in the team that did not touch any file in the On earlier in the last two years so that Yeah And I think that reports basically two-third of the team so I will go ahead and ping or send a mail to everybody that's on that list and Ask them if they are still here basically and Then maybe we can reduce the list of members to see who's actually active You'll be removed from the team in one month if you don't say anything. Yeah I'm yeah, so I Gave that script to the pearl team and they are doing that in the next few days for their team And I'll steal their mail template once that's done Yeah, if nobody disagrees Yeah, we need a sprint next. Yeah, I guess That too But the spring's probably going to be during the freeze Right had one March the Similar time of the year next year is gonna be freeze, right? If everything is okay, we can do some ruby 2.4 work, but Otherwise, it's probably going to be fixing stuff For the release. Yeah Does anybody want to warrant you for setting the sprint up or Or Providing locations or anything and Brazil was really nice And yeah, and there are more people here now from okay, it's it's 5050 Yes, I said Rick is asking on our see if it would be better to wait for the release, so I guess wait for freeze to be over, but And it depends on what we want to do that might mean Sprint in September or later You could do another sprint this year to finish all the work on the baiting packages that could make sense So tricks that suggests Belgium or Austria not sure why Belgium Um Yeah, we could try us to it if we do it Yeah this year or Or again in February one that will be as cold as in Paris, I guess Yeah, sir Maybe Austrian Maybe depending on what I don't know Well, why Belgium let's see what's the trick says about Belgium? Good I think he's probably going to mention for them. I Think he's going to mention for them somehow. Okay. That's my good feeling Okay, yeah, all right Okay Do we have anybody from Belgium? Well, okay Then yeah, so I think they're 50 minutes left There there were some open points from last year that I'm not sure I've been dealt with the first one is What to do about rails as it packages and I think we're going to have more and more of these Yeah, I Don't know if anything came out of that discussion I'll actually There's a link. Can you yes? See what that says? I'm not with that So we came to the conclusion that the best way to maintain this package is to come to package separately the JavaScript library and the Ruby group So this is more or less what we are already doing. Mm-hmm. I mean There's lots of things if you if you take a Right random rails assets package today It's very probable that the Corresponding JavaScript package is already there. Mm-hmm. And then you just I mean just quotes you just need to maybe remove the embedded copies from the upstream tarpaul and then seem like the The file so I was discussing yesterday with Actor which is colleagues of Andrew. Mm-hmm. So Indra is work for collaboration. They are kind of pushing for BS and he suggested that we could have a script that will be automatically with the same linking Like pointing to the proper JavaScript package that is kind of nice because We are right now doing that by hand and doing things by hands always Possible to break stuff and not do the right way Okay, I guess this mail implies that The transcript package will be maintained by the transcript team and we will maintain just Simulant containing package. Yes. Okay. Yeah, but then as long as you we care about the actual content of the JavaScript We also need to help The JavaScript team. Okay Yeah, Cedric notes that we'll have a 20 line Ruby package. Yeah, okay right I mean every few months one ITP that goes to David Devel will be Restarting the discussion of very small package and we will reach again the same conclusion as always Okay So and then Yeah There's an open item saying remove edge because and fast access Which we still need to carry on unfortunately I assume for at least another two releases Except if you find somebody who is going to fix run Which is a documentation generator which is used by a number of packages. Yeah Uh Yeah, I'm not sure what to do about that Uh, HB got has had security issues in the past And maybe they are still open issues. I don't know um, and Something that's not here in the list is I'm going to I remove blue cloth Um, actually there are two reverse dependencies left for that. I have uploaded one of them and I'll fix the other one And then blue cloth can also go. Um, as far as I'm concerned the last upstream commit for blue cloth was 11 years ago or something Or eight, I don't know. Um, so yeah, that needs to go And yeah, we have 10 minutes left. Maybe um, uh ubuntu contacts wants to say something It's not listening Okay Yeah Exactly. Uh, so Cetric says we could migrate upstream projects to another tools and run for man pages, but I'm not sure that's uh That's going to work. Um, yeah, there are lots of non ruby packages using that. So, yeah, I don't know I think people should just use pen doc Or if they can ask a doc or a doctor Yeah, okay, so then there's the argument that Pan docs are relatively heavy build dependency, but then I tried installing it on a clean ch for the other day just It just pandoc itself and two other libraries or something. So it's In my opinion should not be should not be a big deal. Yeah, as long as you don't need to build pandoc. I think it's fine Because building as long as you don't actually build pandoc itself. It's fine because pandoc itself pulls in Everything. Um, yeah, Cetric notes some packages actually moved to ask a dog But that's good. Yeah, that's good. Do you want to say something? I think I remove it Wrong around the pen is from everything that I write Anything else creation? I saw your email that is sent Uh-huh earlier and Are you planning something about the ruby package that are not maintained by the ruby team or some action? Yeah, so that's a good question. Um, I think the packages that are maintained by other teams Uh, should just continue to be maintained by them. Maybe we should find somebody from these teams and talk to them and Say, okay, um Are you happy with our tools? I guess And then the other remaining packages, which are I think 10 or so um I guess we should have a look if they are actually working Uh, in which state they are and Yeah, so if if they are not in a good state then do something about it, whatever it is That's related to the old package Uh, yeah the leaf package or both that Well, that's packages not maintained by the team right that that are ruby packages And uh in the past we had Like there were quite a few rural packages not maintained by the team and then They did not actually work And nobody cared about them. Okay, so We we do at least a little bit better job than that. So Yeah Yeah, I guess it goes together if everything if they don't work then we file rc bugs and Let them be removed from the release Yeah, uh Paula Sanker mentions that we yeah really need to document our tools a bit more. Yes. Um, yeah I think help is welcome All of that I hate to write documentation honestly Yeah, um Michael Oh, do you want to say something about uh open tour? Okay, you are going to ship 2.3 something I'm going to drag you into a conversation. I'm very right Well, the one thing I did uh was to to backport two dots 2.3.1 to the last lts And it was I think approved last week. So we shipped this 2.3.0 and updated Well, exactly the demian package Okay, cool 2.3.1 so, um Yeah, after that, I didn't touch ruby anymore Do you know if red mine works at all in ubuntu? Red mine, do you know if it works? Okay No problems Yeah, sure. Okay, cool. Yeah, so uh on the red mine irc channel upstream channel. So sometimes people ask about ubuntu and I don't know what to say But if you say it works, it's it's good Okay, then If nobody has anything else and I'm ignoring Cedric's Not about the root policy I'd say let's conclude the session. Thank you for coming. Um, thank you everyone Then see you at a sprint or maybe next year. Yeah Thank you