 Okay, we're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fidel. This is ThinkDeck. And more specifically, this is Coronaville. What's next? And we have Winston, Winston Welch, and Stephanie Dalton. And we have Cynthia Sinclair, our regular, regular team here. And we are talking about 100,000 deaths in this country. Actually, Cynthia said it was 100,047, as of a few minutes ago. So yeah, it's a benchmark. I mean, what's the difference? 99,000, 100,000. Winston, you know, my problem is we have made death normal. This is part of the new normal. You should be outraged with even one death. But 100,000 deaths, and everybody sort of gets in the swing of it. How do you feel? There's so many things to distract us right now during this whole pandemic. And the way the state, how our nation has been run the last four years, that it's hard to focus on anything. Even the number of staggering is that because of all the chaos and confusion surrounding it. But I think the New York Times did a great service to our nation by listing a few of those on the front page in a way that said these are real people with real families. And some of these could probably have been prevented. But whether they could or couldn't, this is the reality of what's going on right here. So I appreciated that by the New York Times. And we do need to bring attention to it. There's a lot of work that we have to do. Well, this is an example of Trump distracting. I mean, I found it absolutely amazing that in the middle of this, he's resuming nuclear testing, the talk about a distraction and all the stuff about North Carolina, and the convention which we know the Republicans are going to nominate him. What's the issue? He's got to pay all this time and money for a convention. And that's distraction. I think we are living in a world of distraction. And I also think that he is destroying the country while we're being distracted this way. So what happened to Anthony Fauci? We haven't seen him so much. And the science community and the, by the way, the Inspector General community has all been sidelined. It's all about Trump. And Trump is not telling us the truth about coronavirus. Cynthia, how do you feel about it? Oh, it just infuriates me. He muzzled the CDC right off the bat. That was one of the first things he did was shut everybody up. There's a quote from Fauci in an interview that was this weekend. And he says that, you know, the second wave is not inevitable, which is kind of a big deal. But it has to be with social distancing, follow guidelines, wear masks. That's the only way we're going to stop a second wave. So, you know, you can't just, this is what he said exactly, that to go out without following the guidelines, that is inviting a situation that could get out of control. Don't start leapfrogging over some of the recommendations and the guidelines, because that is really tempting fate and asking for trouble. Well, I think what we have is we, you know, the whole thing has been politicized. Trump has managed, I mean, he really is very skilled at this. He's managed to politicize the coronavirus and he's managed to politicize the reopening. And so we have a national concert on Sunday. Thousands of people showed up all elbow to elbow. No masks. You know, no social distancing for sure. And I say to myself, wait a minute, you know, is this a statement of support for Trump? Because in fact, what happened in Michigan with the people in the state capital, that was politicized. And some of these governors are reopening maybe way too quickly. And that's politicized. And so, you know, what we have is if you reopen, you're a good American. And if you don't reopen, you must be a Democrat and we dump on Democrats. That's what he'd done out of this. It's quite extraordinary. And wait for the July 4th military parade. Remember, he was going to have tanks in the streets of Washington a couple of years ago. He's going to do that too. And again, all distractions. You're going to be in Washington, Stephanie. You're going to be there on July 4th. I hope you report back to us on the military parade. And tell me about the social distancing among the troops who march, you know. Well, he did do tanks last year. But they, the military had great grave concerns. And so did the city because the tanks are heavy. And it's a problem on all of the roads. So they brought in tanks with special covers for the tracks and they had to set up. And there were only about two or three of them. So I mean, he already has pushed this. And I don't doubt Jay that you're right. And he'll try it again. And with more, more display. But I wanted to submit, given your question about where's Fauci. Has anybody noticed that there's no Rudy Giuliani anymore? So I suggest that this is a real good people into the gig. Okay, the trip he's on, the way he manages it. So you're there while he's using you. And Giuliani stepped right up to that with great, great enthusiasm all over the media. And now that sucker is gone. Oh, and I mean, same thing happened to the former president, a governor of New Jersey, the big guy with anyway. So, but I so there's a pattern here. So he's it's his usual way to just grab what he needs, whatever it is, whatever will do his, his stick, and then let go and encourage it. And then they're gone. I think you want to see the same thing in Pompeo, by the way. Pompeo was running into trouble about, you know, using government resources for his personal thing. And incidentally, it was an article recently about Pompeo and what he has achieved as Secretary of State. And the answer is nothing. He's only ripped things up. But let's get back to want to talk about international things. You have upswing in cases in Korea, I think in Britain, in Brazil, big deal in Brazil. So we can never forget that the world is connected to us. And even if you close down the borders and the flights and what have you, we still have a pandemic and people are dying in huge numbers, although the US and right up at the top. Isn't that wonderful? So, you know, what did you say about Fauci that he said it's not inevitable that we will have a second wave? I think he was really saying that we could stop it if we do the right thing. But if we don't do the right thing, you know, we will have a second wave. And those guys at the beach of Memorial Day, everybody like ignoring it, it's really interesting from a psychological point of view, they're all out there as if nothing ever happened. And that kind of behavior will will give us a second wave. Don't you think Winston? It's hard to tell what's going to happen here, Jay. I mean, honestly, we don't we don't know where this virus is going, what's going to happen. Brazil did pass America deaths. I think yesterday on a daily basis, it may go down or change here. But, you know, when you're mentioning about Donald Trump and this being politicized, it's hard not to be. But they have a playbook. This is a weak spot. They need to wait until the economy comes back. They're talking about a massive comeback in quarter three if they open up everything. And I think what we're looking at is that the United States has become a testing ground for essentially this idea we're going to infect people at a certain rate and we'll get immunity or we won't and some people will be sacrificed and that's for the good of the land or whatever. It's happening right now across the country. It's not happening here in Hawaii. We have had three or four days consecutively of no new cases, at least on Oahu. And so we will, well, it's going to continue to be a testing ground around around the world around this country. It is concerning to see what's happening, but we need to keep our eyes and ears open for what is true, what information we can use in new places and apply it as best as we can given the lack of leadership and that it's basically a free for all. Well, you saw the thing yesterday about how Twitter put a blue note at the end of one of his tweets saying this was not true and that people ought to check it out. And then you saw the thing this morning where he said Twitter is out of line. Twitter needs to be regulated or put out of business. And all of a sudden, the whole specter of the First Amendment comes up and he's on a tear about the media who criticize him. I worry that more traditional media will be affected by the same anger that he expressed. But I think what was interesting, and I'd like to try with you guys to connect the dots on this, is a number of organizations, press organizations and think-tank organizations have tried to do scenario building on Trump. What is this all about for him? He's not really his own man. He's working for some agenda. And everything he does is to advance the agenda, including his Herculean efforts to stay president for another four years. I mean, if you made a list of all the things he and his friends have done, including but not limited to knocking off the post office, so they can't be male voting. Incredible. Incredible. There's no benefit to doing that except for Trump. So you have all these scenarios coming out about what he's going to do to become president, to stay president, to stay in office no matter what happens. If he loses, he wins. If he wins, he wins, that sort of thing. And it's all to advance an agenda. And I suggest to you guys, I don't want to come up with theories here, but I suggest to you guys that the whole thing with Coronavirus, he's turning it around for his own benefit. He's politicizing it. He's dividing the federal government in the states. He's dividing the states. He's dividing the people. He's creating new divisiveness where there really shouldn't be. We're in a crisis. And yet the man has somehow created a divisiveness among us. The country is in, you know, in terms of working on this problem is in shambles. And if we do, as we are in some places, have a second wave, it'll be much worse. And there's got to be a purpose for it. It's not just he's stumble bumming through this. He's got a reason. He's going to use it. He's going to use it to stay in office or advance his agenda. Now, what do you think about my crazy theory, huh? Well, I would like to suggest or submit that he, that well, I disagree with that he has an agenda. I think all of this is just entirely self-indulgent. Okay. He wants power. He likes all the trappings of that. And he, he, he's just going one, one thing to another thing. So I don't see where there's any goal whatsoever or any agenda other than serving himself and making sure his, his properties are making money. And so, so setting that that puts us in an even worse position, because on the other hand, it could be better. I mean, it's just like with the nuclear, that scary scenario. I mean, he doesn't really seem to be threatening to bomb China or, you know, or, or do anything like that. So I, he doesn't really have overarching structures supporting all of this, this trivial stuff that he's running around trying to do, which is not trivial to those who are involved in it. But certainly he hasn't done a day of work in the White House. I also submit that he has not done an entire day of work on substantive matters. Nothing like- Let's look at how the coronavirus has, you know, affected things. Number one is we're not out of it. Number two is there was an article recently about how 30, just according to the Census Bureau, 34% of Americans have anxiety, demonstrable anxiety or depression, because they've been, you know, cooped up. At the same time, it's not at all clear that we're having a successful reopening. It all seems to be kind of like pandemonium in this reopening. Trump said a week or two ago that the reopening would be like a, you know, like we were waiting, the country was waiting to reopen, would reopen like a coiled spring. I'm not sure that's happening. You guys have any comments about the two sides of this intersection Are people able to deal with it now? Are they ready to go back and reopen? Is the reopening a successful reopening? Or are we going to be in a kind of scrambled egg limbo for a long time before we resolve either side of the equation? I think scrambled egg limbo is a good way to put it. We have right now 14 states that have an increase over the last week of cases. Increase in case you have 14 states, most of them in the South. So they've been having increases every week. Market increases even. So that's what's happening to these states that are opening up. So Georgia is one of those states that has the marked increase because they opened up so soon and with absolutely none of the precautions or restrictions or anything put in place. That place in Wisconsin where all the people were in the pool next to each other, shoulder to shoulder, no masks anywhere in sight. In two weeks we're going to find out just exactly what they did, but it's not going to be that exact area because all those people that were in Wisconsin came there from other places. So they're going to go back to those places and possibly bring the virus with them. So I think over this next month we're going to see a huge resurgence of cases because as much as we do have safe people like here in Hawaii, I didn't see anybody when I went out yesterday. I took the dog to the vet and I didn't see one single person without a mouse. Look at pictures of other people. Is anybody here going out? I mean on a regular basis, anybody here going out without a mask? Anybody here trying to live your previous life? Raise your hand. I don't see any hands raised. So you're trying to live your previous life? It's been nice knowing you Winston. It's not a hand. I'm certainly walking around. I'm limited my exposure, you know, as we all should. But again, we have to remember Jay, we had gays here. Effectively we have, we squashed the coronavirus here. And interestingly when you were talking about the national response, it's almost a little bit meaningless here because we are an island that can shut the same off. And I love the interesting results of the Civil Beat Hawaii News Now poll that just came out this morning was taken last week where it said that even if stop, even if the economy gets worse, is it more important to stop the virus or to open up the economy? 61% said it's more important to stop the virus. 30% said it's more important to open the economy. And 9% weren't sure, but it said 71% of people support quarantining passengers, only 20% opposed, and 71% support the stay at home orders still that have been extended, I think through the end of June now. I mean a lot of stuff has opened up, but basically you're seeing Hawaii is not the United States. It's not the mainland. We have sense here. We have respect for each other. We wear our masks when we go out. And we realize if we figure the thing out and we have double triple testing because half of the test results and false negatives, we need more than one test. But what does it mean even if you tested? What if you had the coronavirus two months ago? Can you come to Hawaii now? Are you going to be safe or are you still, I don't think we've really worked it out yet. But here in Hawaii it's a good story. Well, I think we, as you say, we have the Aloha spirit where we care more about people's welfare than we do about the economy. We, you know, we, I think fundamentally Hawaii doesn't like big capital. It doesn't like big companies. It's a democratic state. Yeah, it's ranked last on business friendliness for a lot of different things, but that's not exactly the, you know, I think it's that we do realize it's an island and where are we going to go if everybody gets. Well, that's the, that cuts two ways, Winston. I mean, you got to watch out for the food chain. You know, for example, those, those processing plants in the Midwest, where they, you know, do beef and poultry, they're at risk of going out of business, whether he likes it or not. And we may not see any meat anymore. What was it? One of the big goes at young brothers is in desperate straits. They want all kinds of money, millions and millions from the state. They don't get it. They're going to stop shipping. The neighbor islands are going to suffer that. We would suffer that too. So, you know, just as we're an island in one way, that we can shut the airlines down. And of course that means shutting anything left of the economy down. The being, being isolated as islands is very threatening to us. And one day you could wake up and find out that Safeway is closed. I don't see that happening anytime soon, Jay. And also this has given us a great opportunity to reevaluate our priorities for the state and its economy post COVID. So, you know, we've got food, go to Safeway. There is plenty of food in Safeway. Now, do we have the money to spend it? Not, not as much as we'd like. That's why I said everybody needs to get a voucher for right now so that we have food security minimum and a lot of other things. Okay, well, we're going to see. We're going to see. I mean, I feel that we've done this, you and I and the group here have done it long enough to know that I'm on one side of the optimism curve and you're on the other. But let me ask you about medicines. You know, so we have the guy in Paraguay. I don't know his name. The leader in Paraguay is taking hydro, what is it? Chloroquine. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I never get it right. Okay. And thousands of people around the world are taking it because Trump is taking it and Trump is still taking it, you know, and so everybody is confused about it. Meanwhile, we do not have a therapeutic. Gil had laboratories in, I think, in Massachusetts. It's a big board company, or maybe a non-state company. I mean, they have made some progress with Remdesivir. I can do that one. And that might offer some hope, but it's not in the market yet. We don't have a therapeutic. We don't have, you know, an immune drug that will solve the immunity reaction problem. And we certainly don't have the vaccine. And yet, and, you know, I appreciate your comments, but it's not clear to me that we have the testing we need because in order to really know, in order to do the proper tracking on a given population, including patient one who comes in on some plane for tourism, it only takes one, you know, that's what happened last time. It's not that we can really control this. So we don't have a way to track because we don't have the technology for that. And we don't have the repeated testing you need for that. So I'm very worried that the medical side of this hasn't kept up with it. And we're vulnerable. Any thoughts about that, Cynthia? Well, the CDC has just put out a new message saying that half of the antibody tests that are out there come and they're wrong. They're false. So half. That's a lot. So how are we supposed to tell if people have the antibodies? How are we supposed to get behind these people? And, you know, how are we supposed to trace them and, and, you know, isolate them if we don't know for sure. So we can't even really trust the tests that are being given. And all of the scientists say that our case numbers are actually much, much higher than is being revealed because the testing is faulty and not working. And we don't really have as much as we like to get the press that says, Oh, plenty of testing. We got testing. Anybody who needs a test can get a test is not really true. If you hear from the doctors and the nurses and the medical personnel that are out there in the world, they're saying they don't have the testing. But one thing is troubling is that Korea has an incredible system for testing and tracking, tracing. They have really learned a few things. And for that matter, China, you know, China learned a lot about technology and how to track and trace with, you know, what happened in Wuhan. China has an outbreak now. I don't think it's all that serious, but it's an outbreak in other area of China. Korea, with all of its, you know, all the factors that have helped it suppress the curve. It has a serious outbreak. Japan has an outbreak. I think, you know, this, this kind of bubbles up here at the Rinyan. And you don't know, you don't know where it's going to go next. And you don't know whether the, the efforts you've made are going to be successful. And I think we're, we're in this long term, if not wave, then at least a small wave ripple effect kind of thing going forward. And the question is, you know, how is this going to affect our society? We can only pretend for so long that everything is going to return to normal. And I use the term advisedly. But right now, it's, it's a very thin, I'll address this question to you Winston. It's a, it's a fragile, thin membrane between us and complete confusion, complete vulnerability. There's no plan out there, not in the state or the federal level. There's no safety net. There's no comfort. It's just, it's just moving down the road and whatever it's, it's lurching down the road. How can you be sure that you can go back and lead the life you wanted to lead or the lead, the life you had before that you like? Not clear when there's no, there's no plan and there's no confidence. There, it's not possible. There is before COVID and after COVID, just like there is in everything else in life, before the baby, after the baby, before the marriage after the divorce. We just have to adjust to life as it is. And by the way, I didn't want to also point out that I'm just representing myself. You're not in your organization. I might be connected with, but you know, we are all going to have to figure out individually, collectively, as a nation, as a state, inside of our organizations, our churches, our synagogues, our mosques, our communities, how we're going to deal with this new reality. I don't see these plexiglass screens ever going away between us and the cashiers. And maybe that's not such a bad thing. Other things, when will we be able to help? There's so many things are popping up. You know, for example, yesterday an article in the paper about how the Chinese are developing neighborhood watches, kind of Chinese walker people, protect the Chinese community in New York City, because they're being harassed, because there's racism, because every Asian face is responsible for the epidemic. Trump has set that in motion. That's open bear knuckles racism in this country, and they got to protect themselves. Nobody else can protect them. The mayor said something, oh, this is all wrong, all bad. But you know, it's out there. We got all kinds of, you know, racism happening in this country, and we have no plan to deal with that. Well, that is not a story of America, Jay. And that's not going to stop anytime soon. But it gives us a good chance right now to look at it and say, hey, yeah, this is ugly. We don't like it. And in our current situation, in our post COVID situation, if there is such a thing as a post COVID situation, we can address these things. We can address them well. We can address them forcefully. And hopefully in a few months, we will have the means and ability and the power at the top to say, let's take a good hard look at what we don't like, what's happened and how we want to change it to society with or without COVID. You make my heartbeat just a little faster. So what's about you, Stephanie? Are we going to return to a time when we can stop racism in this country? Well, as this says, we're going to have hopefully new leadership. But the Asians, they have shown us why you test and why you go through all of this because you find where these breakouts are, you go in, you get those people, you isolate them. They have got that down pat. They're not going to have any problems. They're going to get this thing wiped out in their country. And they are predominantly free of it now. And they know where these breakouts are. And they have the facilities to take them. You don't get to go home. You don't get to go anywhere until you get tested and sit on a chair for three days to get the results or however long it takes, then you don't go home. So I'm thinking that we are just not taking advantage of what's already been laid out before us as a recipe for addressing this. And then it also troubles me that people are not being informed about what this virus does to you. They show that cute ball with all those little palm trees all over it. Instead of telling us about, you see those palm trees, those things clamp on to all of the cells in your lines. And that's why you're going to be in a terrible desperate situation with a ventilator. Why aren't they telling us more about what that course of the disease is? And I think that that would help Americans get even smarter. There are plenty of smart ones. That's true. That's true. That's been kept from us as the true numbers are. We had a guest on a show earlier today whose mother was in a senior facility in England. And she was infected and her daughter here could not get back to see her. And she wound up in a hospital dying alone, which is really horrible. I mean, let me tell you, when at first we hit the newspapers, it was very, very horrible. Now it's de rigueur. Now it's just, it happens. It's a new normal that your parents and grandparents can wind up in a senior facility in a hospital and dying. You never have a chance to say farewell. It's very troubling. And this isn't going to, this isn't going to go away. It's going to continue to happen. And we, we're building, I say, an immunity to these outrages. Okay, Cynthia, we're out of time. So you have to tell us what we can do about any of this. Wear a mask, follow the guidelines. It's very simple. The guidelines that Trump has dashed somewhere and won't release. They are out there. They did leak out and we all know what they are. And, you know, park your ego and follow the guidelines. Because 100,000 people have died alone, saying goodbye to their families on an iPad. That's just, it breaks my heart. And I cry all the time, every day when I see those numbers tick up. So wear a mask, follow the guidelines, please. You know, this conversation makes me want to feel better. It makes me want to relieve, you know, this sense of pessimism that I have. And when I get that feeling, I always, I always ask Winston whether he'll just share some words of optimism with us. You know what, I think Cynthia's got it right. Basically, share the, share a loha, not germs. Wear your mask. Be kind to other people. Ask your neighbors. Can I pick you up something at Safeway Costco, whatever it is? Just be a human being. And that's it. I mean, a fundamentally bottom line. Be good to others. Be kind to others. Or as Ted and Bill say, be excellent to one another. Ted and Bill's excellent. Okay, well, we're gonna do this again next week. And I wonder if anybody wants to make a, how about you, Stephanie? A prediction of how many lives will be in the toll by next week, a week from now? Well, I'm sorry to be a downer, but I think with all of this exposure in the last week, it's probably gonna go up pretty fast. Escalate. It's gonna escalate. Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you, Cynthia. Thank you, Winston. See you back here. Stay safe. Stay careful. And follow all the rules. Wash your hands right now. Aloha.