 Good evening one and all My name is Christian Klein. I am the acting chair of the zoning board of appeals to the town of Arlington a couple messages for for everyone The we are being recorded this evening. So all the comments will be available on ACMI There is a sign-in sheet at the back which we ask you to please sign in especially if you're planning on Speaking it just helps when we do the minutes at the end to get your name correctly So I am the acting chair of the zoning board of appeals our Elected chair had to resign unexpectedly and so I am covering in his stead I'm gonna ask the board with their permission that at our next hearing we hold a vote for A new chair and new vice chair just we have fully elected members going forward I would also like to Welcome Kevin Mills and Patrick Hanlon who are recently appointed from associate status to full members of our board Very glad to have you on board and if anyone is interested in being an associate member of the zoning board of appeals There is an application process available. Please contact the select board. I'm going to Take the first two items and reverse them I have apologies to those who are here for Melvin Road So we'll start with docket number three six one two thirteen fourteen Massachusetts Avenue. The proponents could come forward, please So if you could introduce yourselves and See the applicant James a rock owner of the first house grew up on Renfrew Street class of 87 for And so you gentlemen here for a variance from the parking requirements, that's correct. Yes. Yeah, I'm not sure if you wanted me to No review. Yes, please First house LLC is requesting zoning relief article 8 section 8.01 of the zoning by-law requiring one parking space For each four seats of seating capacity the subject property located at 1314 Massachusetts Avenue in Arlington Heights Formerly the site of the Baylage five and dime does not have any Parking connected directly or indirectly to the property and the applicant wishes to establish a restaurant this this location Approximately seven seats, which is allowed in the B3 village business district And because of this highly restricted parking requirement the location would not be able to open without the variance After over a year of highly engaged planning with the neighborhood and community the town of Arlington issued the neighborhood action plan for Arlington Heights which identified restaurant establishment is one of the most desired elements to the area and indicated it was a deficiency in the present state in fact the Report identified food and restaurants is the number one missing element from the Heights 42 percent other respondents indicated They would like to see a restaurant there and because of the many remaining properties do not have parking that this desired use Would be present prevented from development while the 50 year old zoning requirement is Limiting to the desired evolution of the neighborhood One of the assets is that there exists a plentiful off-street parking for some of the more demanding Locations including D'Agostino's pensies and caverns savings. This frees up a lot of public parking on the street And parking on the surrounding streets It should be noted that since our approval from the redevelopment board and historical commission the applicants have leased four spaces Behind the building from landlord and multiple spaces from Arlington Cole and lumber for staff Though anecdotally because the applicants to desire to hire locally many of the staff walk bike Or are dropped off, but the applicants wanted to find Staff spaces to make it easy for their staff But also because those tend to be the spots that are kind of there for the entirety of their shift So that's something that was something they wanted to focus on What is unique to the Heights pub is that the majority of its customers will be coming to the heights when many other Businesses are closing the parking impact would be minimized because of the operating hours The applicants present the own first-house pub in neighboring Winchester and report that their lunch business counts for only about 20% of their overall customers The neighborhood action plan also discussed access to the Heights and the survey results indicated that 45% Access the area by walking one of the 13% bike and 7% take the bus So nearly 65% of the resident respondents don't access the Heights by car at all We expect those percentages to continue and even increase while the Heights Attracts more visitors The applicants are committed to minimizing the impact of increased activity and have spoken with many of the neighbors to implement Plans to direct customers to public parking and away from private parking and the economic development data presented to us indicates that Presence of a restaurant establishment like the Heights pub will increase activity to support existing businesses as well as new ones And become the kind of destination that Arlington desires. As you know, Kathy Berata Livio's and flora have received exactly this kind of zoning Sony relief from the board and Have begun an example of how the area has room to grow and evolved with very well intention planning and relief Just specifically on the parking impact as I mentioned three the largest commercial establishments within a block radius keeper savings digistinos and And pennies spices have existing off-street parking and which is More suitable for the demands of their businesses the corner of Massachusetts Avenue Park Avenue formerly Brigham's Held more than 20 seats which impact the parking which does not now It's a Bennett family eye care location and has a limited hours of operation during day times out hours So it's that uses has shifted as well Public parking along Park Avenue is more than sufficient to support the use There are 29 spaces of two-hour parking and it's typically available Especially during the evening hours directly a budding Cambridge savings Bank as Davis wrote one One a one way public road to additional parking which does not affect any residential units until Surrey Road so quite a bit of space there in front of the Heights and immediately across the street are at least 15 Parking spaces along Massachusetts Avenue, which are frequently open and available during all hours Daytime or evening. I know that the development board and economic development Plan that was submitted to you earlier has a lot more involved parking study that supports our conclusions So we're happy to answer questions Thank you Is the the town's traffic engineer here stand here Can you speak to the study that the town performed Could just come up so we make sure you we catch you on the microphone Sure, my name is Daniel Amstutz the senior transportation planner for the town with the Department of Planning and Community Development and so with the Parking utilization study that I did it's included with the Department of Planning and Community Development report Regarding the variance and so I can go through it very briefly just to say that I So I went to the area so we started looking at the area of 1314 Masshab and seeing to look at the parking utilization Within the area and we chose sort of a constrained and say a conservative bounds for The map that's included with the report it's actually within about a thousand feet in each direction of the address and Which is actually a shorter distance than say a five-minute walk so we tried to be conservative about the the distance that somebody would park and walk from their car and so I went out and created a map and Estimated the number of spaces Both counted the number of spaces that are already marked out there. There are some that are already marked on pet on park Have and then there are some handicap spots that are already parked on Masshab, but most of the spaces are not marked Physically, so there's often more cars that act can actually park on the street when they're not marked because when you mark them Give a larger problem for that. So the number of the estimated number of spaces that we created again was a conservative number and there's approximately a hundred fifty spaces within the bounds of the map that Is included with the report and so I went there on three different occasions to do They said count the number of vehicles that were parked in the area during the lunchtime period on a Monday and a Thursday and then on a Thursday evening and generally overall there was again within those bounds there was not a Not a total utilization of the parking capacity in the area and especially on the evening time It was much lower perhaps 60% of the number of on-street parking spaces that we counted or estimated We're actually being utilized at that time. So the Number of parking spaces during an evening would probably be around 70 or 60 That would be available again within this area that would be well within a five minute walk And we also included some information You know probably from the neighborhood actual plan that showed that the the bear the race of the five minute walk and how many people Or ten minute walk and how many households would be within that area. So there are alternative means to get to dislocation besides driving Even the board have a question specifically about the transportation And thank you so much. You're welcome so the request is for a variance and So for those of you in the audience aren't as familiar We can grant special permits which are for specific categories, but a variance is a different animal The requirements for a variance are written into state code They are not a local ordinance and specifically we have to make a number of findings The first is that owing to Circumstances related to the soil conditions shape or topography of such land or structures and especially Affecting such land or structures, but not affecting generally the zoning district in which it is located To a literal enforcement of the provisions of the ordinance or by law would involve substantial hardship financial or otherwise to the partitioner or Appalachian Three that the desirable relief may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and number four without nullifying or Substantially derogating from the intent or purpose of such ordinance or by law. So those are the criteria that we need to evaluate this evening and we just say that For us when we are asked to grant relief for a special permit We have discretion and I think that that's what Christian was alluding to whereas with a variance. We are really Pretty much hamstrung in terms of how we can decide and unless we find those four Criteria have been satisfied. We actually can't grant the relief that's requested and Without getting into the weeds too much. I just want to let you know when I direct a question To the applicant in a moment, but the variant statute was caught redone in 1975 and it said the Department of Community Affairs condemned a common substitute for the statutory Test it said the temptation is to play the good fellow and Substitute for tests specified in the statute and ordinance the following Will the variants help the applicant and are the neighbors complaining and and so we're really well aware that a lot of people in the surrounding area are in favor of this and I as And I'm not going to speak for the rest of the members of the board. I Have no objection to the idea of this. It's just how do we get there? and so that's my question to the applicant and I don't know if you've seen a memorandum in opposition that was submitted by attorney Valvey tonight and Just so you know he he cited that criterion that was set forth in the memorandum from the planning Department and in the planning department and I think you cited actually in your materials as well The question is how does this? How does this satisfy the requirement that the conditions that you are Trying to be relieved to seek relief from are related to Soil conditions shape or topography and so Mr. Falvey, I know is here and we'll probably speak to that But his claim is that none of the facts citing cited in the memo from the planning department actually Directed toward those issues and so I would wonder if you could speak more Directly to how you determine that those conditions are satisfied And I Was not a part of the planning department's memo either we submitted our application and support and You know, this is a a two-story block of mixed residential and commercial Units and there's a very limited private access to the building So the space that's actually under the applicant's control and subject to the application Fronts Massachusetts Avenue and has a small access road to the rear of the building So there is no open space connected with the property and there will be no impact to the land or structure or surrounding topography as a result of the variance, so You know unless there is something that we're not aware of There will be nothing that this this variance Would really engage the topography or the soil conditions at all it would be renovation and use of an existing interior building But the statute actually reads Slow condition shape topography of such land or structures and especially affecting such land or structures But not affecting generally the zoning district which is located in that or structures is omitted from From the other brief Right, and so the question is still how does how do the conditions related to Soil conditions topography or lock shape come into play in this particular petition Mr. Chairman It's a little unfair to ask Ask Essentially to reply to a member And I wonder if it might be more Sensible to hold this line of questioning a little bit more and give him an opportunity To see the memo and to decide what he'd like to say about it But otherwise he can't really focus on what it's claiming and there's a certain degree of people talking past each other that Might be fixed if we gave him a little time and had him come back When he's heard the argument and knows exactly what he has to face Are there more questions from the board specifically to the I think we should absolutely We should let him absolutely Or do we want to while he's reading this do we want to entertain questions from the audience All right, so we will we'll take questions and comments from the from the audience we ask that you be polite Address the board and not the applicants And that you clearly state your name and address before you speak and if you could come closer to the table We don't have that specifically a microphone for members of the audience, but I have been told that if you come close to the table So if there's anyone who would like to Speak please Raise your hand. Let me know Please I'm George Buckley resident of Allington Renfrew Street. I'm a regular shopper in Allington Heights this is a wonderful idea for the wrong wrong place and My concerns are the amount of parking that's available in that area during the day would be severely impacted If this establishment were to open Furthermore, I worry about the number of deliveries that were required and where those deliveries might happen. I also worry As an environmental management consultant about where the food waste the trash and rubbish That would be produced from an establishment of this size in that area Most establishments in that area are small. They have a few people at a time and come and they go fairly quickly This this is a change of use a major change of use that area Another worry is that as we see more and more people traveling by bicycle scooter where those might be poor So I see you people having to deal with do a dual issue here with its volume Not just what's gonna happen there and then at some point time if they had take out What would happen with that and where that might go? And so the heights is already very constrained if you go there most times between 10 and 4 or 5 in terms of the amount of use that happens there and and your town Employee here was absolutely right. There's not much going on at night But during the day there's a lot going on and it you know varies from day to day But it's heavily used and I know when I go there. I have a hard time Regularly finding parking unless I'm up at the far end of park out there Which which for somebody with bad knees or hockey is not an easy jog down the down the bricks there So that's my concern is it is that the impact on on the the public health and safety of people coming and going from an area and also Ultimately on on use of the sidewalks where where's stuff going to be put and and that is an extremely constrained area That's that's the problem that you folks have that the people proposing this have and then I see regularly as a user Thank you my understanding is that So the we're only just to discuss the parking the the use has already been approved by the Ewington redevelopment board So this is sort of a two-part process The Ewington redevelopment board has authority over granting special permits for projects that occur on major arteries in town So they have already Granted a special permit to the applicant to operate a restaurant in this location They're coming to us solely for the purpose of the parking requirement But I believe in the agreement with the redevelopment board there was a statement in regards to bicycle parking That's right. They are requiring us to provide bicycle Parking in in front and the area around the restaurant So we've agreed to do that so and we will work with them on the appropriate location if we're You know putting bike racks and things like that So it may not be to do it right so it may not be directly in front of the rest That's right that sidewalk is narrow But it would be somewhere that you may be up towards the corner as well. There's a little bit more more room So okay, and also just because there are a lot of folks here that weren't here Redeveloping board will be handling deliveries and all trash behind the building so it won't impact the you know Front of the building a mass app at all. So there will be Trash back there that is regularly picked up. So At least a few times a week. So that that will all be handled and is pretty highly restricted by the Board of Health as well I'm pretty highly Yes, please You had to excavate that section which is I think what we need to do to put a carbon block similar to behind crime the Panera spot you be Be excavating 200 skips or the dirt depth a lot of there to level that land behind there And it will become a retainable nightmare. Right now. I think at least is some of the Road and protection the water running down that hill behind the complex. You have to dig that out for parking It would be a nightmare. I think You look at poverty having to go part in there would be an environmental shore I really forward seeing this restaurant open and I would I at first with my place Dealing with people parking from my home which I love because I don't know the streets and walk with my family I would walk to this restaurant. I like as a look my neighbors My name is Tom Allen. I live in 252 One Lowell Street I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my wife I just want to be in favor of the board granting this variance We live in not the old neighborhood neighborhood as a member of my neighbors here We anticipate walking to this restaurant And we have had many discussions with many of our neighbors about how nice it would be to have a place It was within walking distance where we could gather and we could get together for dinner And so I'd like to very strongly urge the board to consider the fact that there are many people Within walking distance Without any effect Thank you So we want to try to keep it moving There's a gentleman back here in a hat. Where is his hand quickly? Yes, sir. Oh, I just want to Can I be named I'm actually a regular customer Of the local in Winchester when I go or I'd drive over there So my friends can actually walk Close by. I like the opportunity to be able to walk in my local park. In that sense, right? It would be a very good addition to the neighborhood. The neighborhood is In transition at this moment. There's a lot of places that are that are closing down It would be very good to see that the neighborhood come up with a localite woman here Martin Lutheran 18 West Street Long-time resident of Heights and long-time walking patron of many of the establishments in Heights Dio's, Trader Joe's, Breeding's when I was around, my favorite hardware store And, you know, many of my neighbors also walk I think would be great as other Consciousness to have something we can walk to. The town has one that has two thriving business districts The East, the center, and the Heights The Heights does not have something right now like this that would bring a lot of people to it And I think that would be really important given the number of establishments closed over the years And in terms of parking The restaurants maybe seem to be doing fine without dedicated parking. I don't see why they'll Heights can't have the same kind of opportunity Other speakers again. Okay. There's a microphone. If you could just approach slightly Owen Callaghan I'm not for Westmoreland Avenue. I just want to speak a little bit in support of it as well I've been in the Heights since 1996 for a dinner walk or etc I am in addition to I'm sure hundreds of people that aren't here tonight would walk to this establishment I think that given some of the establishments that have come in and out of our own tonight's That we've seen come and go I see the storefronts that are vacant. That's a big complaint in Arlington in general I think that the Heights community deserves such an establishment. I hear that we're going to have a CBD establishment I don't know how many parking exemptions that's going to need But I think there's some place like this that the community the entire community could gather Would be a value to the community and something would draw us together I haven't I mean, I guess I'm not really sure what to do at this point I mean, I just you know, I'm trying to listen to you know, who is speaking here So so I can respond as I have been doing to questions, you know having You know Object to you know receiving this at such a late date that this was submitted Right before the hearing and I'm supposed to process this and respond to it live while there's testimony from residents So and I I mean I get the intention of doing that But you know, I think that what would be more appropriate is if we would have a response Have the ability after the hearing to submit a written response to this if the Board feels that that would be appropriate. I just want to say I apologize I wasn't trying to catch you short but the question that I posed that is in the Memorandum was precisely the question that I came into this here tonight So that was the question I was going to ask regardless of where it was located because it's really the basic element in requesting a variance and it still needs to have a connection to the soil condition topography or Locksheet and so Again, you know, that's something that I think that was spelled out in the memorandum from the planning department So that's something that I thought that you know, your Application would address and so that's really what I was just trying to get at I wasn't trying Yeah, but we did address me. We did address it in the application. I mean there there is very little impact and connection to any change in the soil or topography there, you know, we have a existing building and We are not touching the exterior. The structure is all interior improvements. We are not making any structural improvements whatsoever and you know anything that we're being that's being done on the facade of the building is really aesthetic and improvements and has been approved by the storable commission at this point, so but I'm not sure Exactly You know what you would be looking for I think it was mentioned by one of the residents here that the impact of us adding Parking to the back of the building It would be nearly impossible. It wouldn't be something that would be economically feasible and that's so that that's part of the request for the variance is that It would really keep, you know, if there's any sort of restaurant or food establishment ever in this location It would not be feasible for anybody to open that if they were having to do, you know, any You know, adding parking to the to the property. It's just it's really it's really quite impossible But I think you'd have to have ownership or control Over the property that you say you couldn't use for parking and I don't know that you presented that as an element of Your application because I don't know who owns that property So while it may be true that you couldn't without, you know, some massive effort and expenditure of money to be able to Cut parking into there. I don't know that that's part of the property It's not it's the any any area that where we would have to extend into is is not is not owned and is not Leased as part of our as part of the property So it is the property outline is in our variance application and it showed in there Even if we wanted to purchase of the property behind us the land behind us It would not be feasible to and certainly would be Major impact on the economic viability of the project so to require the purchase of that property in order to Blast and you know try to get permitting for it Angie has her 277 Oakland Avenue, and I echo a lot of what everybody has said in support of getting the variance I just wanted to add that since 2016 that I've been part of a group that's kind of galvanized in the height to try and revitalize the area we started with grassroots meetings talking about what the Heights needs and the pub always has come up since 2016 And this is the first time that I've seen a business owner that can come in and has the You know money to and significantly invest in a location in the Heights I've had I've heard of other businesses who were interested, but they haven't been able to You know work with the landlords and this is the first time that we've gotten this far And I just think it would be a shame not to do everything that we can to try Apologize we're not having it prepared early Opposition is been a basically articulated by the board I represent CM Dagestino Dagestino's delicate tests and all standard sports Etc. And they have no opposition to the character of the business that's being proposed or the character of the petition You know I have a very high regard for Mr. O'Rourke and first pop It's my mission with respect to the nature of what it's going to take place there. The specific question is concerned the parking And has been indicated that the current zoning by law requires for It's going to require 16 parking spaces for a restaurant at this size currently have none and Has been pointed out by Mrs. DuPont There is nothing in the petition that suggests that this is a problem as a result of the shape of the lot The topography of a lot of the soil content It's not a question of what violence will be done to those things if this Restaurant takes place. It's that's the criteria. That's necessary to come here and ask for variance for a lot of the Carmelton, Massachusetts and If there's a problem with that remedy maybe Apologizing space is required for an enterprise like that. So that this isn't not a problem, but currently it is and There is nothing in the traffic impact study that would suggest What my clients are supposed to do with people who are going to avail themselves and currently constantly avail themselves of their parking lot that they privately pay for and privately maintained and it's not a problem because it's used for 10-minute five-minute visits to local businesses But when someone now spends two hours dining, it's a challenge for them to be forced to be Vigilant to maintaining their parking that they pay for that they maintain that they bargain for And it'll be present a problem with their current and prospective customers that are unnecessary We have no problem with a restaurant coming to heights and that would be great, but They're asking for a variance of a requirement of 16 problems basically frankly, there is zero It's one thing if we went nine to ten and what have you but this is it's not close to what we need and the criteria That's been pointed out before it's not that In the in the language in section 10 of 40 a It does say land, but it also says structures and I'm so curious how you So the it specifically says only the circumstance relates the soil condition shape or topography of such land or structures And especially affecting such land or structures, but not affecting generally the zoning district. So I'm curious if that I reference specifically the structures on the I don't know the structure has to do with the amount of parking And we're not here to address The nature of the structure we have because there is a lack of parking spaces and the criteria which The community development board mentions, but really doesn't address Is it doesn't talk about the soil? It doesn't talk about the shape of the lot, which is perfectly It just says that there's no room for parking in front And there isn't because there's a structure on it and if you knock down the structure, I'm not sure you get 16 parking spaces It's just we as a town have a bylaw that requires 16 parking spaces for seven-seat restaurant, and we're asking it to be annoyed And you're asking the board to contort itself into a position where it pretends that there's a problem of the soil of the shape of the lot or the Regular geographical disposition of the property and there is a We know this Yeah, if I could So and we did meet with many of the neighbors including Sam D'Agostino about this who was concerned about his parking as was indicated by mr. Fahey they have an existing issue with people Using their their parking when they're going to other businesses and they choose not to enforce it We would be happy to and we have Indicated this to them that we'd be very clear with our patrons that they will be Receive a ticket or they will be towed if they park in private lots and we will identify those lots in particular. I Would be remiss if I did not say that I mean I feel like that the this Argument is a circular one and really pretextual for what we're dealing with with the parking issue There is parking available there that is public parking and that is not just to serve D'Agostino's that is to serve They've had a Long commitment to the town and they've been in that location for a long time and they run a successful business and I go there myself And I also live in Winchester where there is a D'Agostino's there as well I remember when we were proposing a farmer's market in the center of town and There was one extremely vocal Opposition to to that farmers market and it was the same issue it was D'Agostino's they said you're gonna take all our parking We're gonna go out of business we open the farmers market and soon thereafter. They double the size of their business This is how economic development works. This is what it looks like Other people have something to say that significantly different than what we've already heard I only say that because we do still have five other I guess an alternative way to perhaps frame the parking issue is Would there be a creative solution whereby these other businesses or other parking lot owners might be able to work out some sort of a rental, you know, pay paid parking Solution where certain spots where lots were at certain hours So could be a potentially revenue generating So and I'd mentioned before in my early remarks we have negotiated the lease of a total of six parking Spaces for Arlington colon for from the landlord behind the building There and I wanted to respond as well to mr. Fagy's argument regarding the the soil and the structure the soil is is concrete or asphalt and the building For us to remove the building from that location. I don't think was the intent of the zoning Direction to us in the bylaw. So I think that we're getting far afield from what we're doing if we're looking to Require buildings to be demolished in order to provide parking and I don't think it's a modern understanding I guess I have a question about what kind of discretion this group has with it, right? So do you have some criteria for decision and I thought earlier we were talking about discretion? So There's been studies done. We heard from the traffic advisor. I was a May 23rd 2018 group Visioning session up at the down. I'm in the down. I participated in that session I heard very loud and very clearly from the community as we are here today that this is specifically asked for By the community so I ask, you know what aside from these criteria and that's written into the Massachusetts law We in Massachusetts have a very strong sense of home rule Where the local communities can make decisions for themselves and I asked what kind of discretion you guys are able to make when you hear? The community coming out in this size And and volume saying that they want this use. What can you do? to deal with these criteria and And allow the community to have what it you know what it's asking for and it intends to make make feasible in its face Thanks I'm happy to answer that but and I'm glad you asked it because You know my opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with what everybody said in support of this totally But here's the discretion we have and it's extremely limited. So we're in a huge bind The town by-law which was just passed again recently by town leading says four spots per You know need 16 spots for this the only way around that is to meet the requirements in the faria statute and I Encourage everybody here to read it. Roger talked about in the beginning Christian chapter 40 a section 10 And that has four specific requirements that have to be met in order us to do anything And they don't even necessarily talk about parking. They really involve a lot shape and things like that They involve financial hardship substantial hardship to the petitioner if it's not granted Substantial detriment to the public good and without getting away from the intent or purpose of the by-law So and if you look at some of the cases which I did the cases Because if either part if anybody's unhappy with this and you have standing you can peel it And some of these cases go up and peel and they say Failing to meet any one of the varying requirements is failed to the petition All of the requirements must be met before this the zoning board Substantial hardship can't just be personal to the applicant. It has to be something that affects that parcel It's supposed to allow people that have odd shaped lots and things like that come before us We hardly ever see requests for variants because there's so hard And we're really limited so Speaking for myself. It's a great idea great idea The problem is with the zoning bylaws passed by town meetings. So you can't do without the parking We have to go to that state statute and that says they have to come in here and meet all of those requirements They don't meet one. We don't have discretion. That's the problem because this is a great idea So, you know, we hope to continue to get more and if comes you want to address any of those Sure, I mean, I think that this has come up in context of you know, again Mr. D'Agostino's submission through council and I think that in in our application and support of our application that you have received We did address those issues. So this is Again, I mean there there is Nothing with this property. There's no additional lot space that we can use we we have with the landlord Made an effort and agreed and these additional spaces to squeeze them in the back but again, there is the way that this lot is shaped in the back is Completely limiting for us to provide that parking. It is impossible and the only way would be for us to Take down a substantial portion of the building in order to provide parking and we wouldn't be able to get the required amount So I think that there's a level of impossibility there. There is no That because it is in the middle of a block. There's No availability for us to use any of the Side setbacks either there is nothing there it's wall-to-wall and the front is on Massachusetts Avenue Which is all concrete and not space that we have control over. So I think this is exactly consistent with the with the prior approval of variances that have happened for Livio's and with flora and is really a disparate of what the The by-law indicates and yet it's this is exactly the kind of thing that is Reference in that in that first part. I mean, I don't know if you have other questions about the soil or anything else that I could You know explain to you on that I wouldn't know what else to provide. I mean, it's I think it's pretty clear that the the lot in the space is It's completely limited So if I could I would like to echo what Sean said, I think it's a great idea So again, and I feel that we are we do have our hands tied because of the language of the statute And if we thought that you've met the require that again It's in my mind the soil condition the lot shape or the topography so In in my view and just so other people understand if there was actually a change to the zoning by-law Where it permitted this relief to be granted by special permit, which is where the board Actually has discretion to make a determination Based upon the things that you are all saying here tonight That would be another matter all together It's just that the variance is so restrictive that we do have our hands tied So that's the concern and I'm certainly not personally opposed to the idea. It's just what does the statute set? Who's interpreting the We not shout over each other, please So it's a matter of interpretation So so he reads it one way and you read it another way And I'm certainly not in the third but it seems like you do have this question because You are interpreting it one way President My name is Kate Kassan I live at 62 Welliston Avenue, and I'm not an attorney either And I'm very much in support of the business and looking forward to walking down and heartbroken that the heights is really a wasteland right now But will most people here live within walking distance, but This gentleman mentioned that there's been a precedent of variances being passed with flora and Olivia and Olivia's and I'd like to hear more about that, and I think maybe that's an avenue I know that is definitely Would be considered if there was an appeal as an appropriate path forward, so I'd like to know more about that Thank you for mentioning I don't know if we know anything specific about what does work There was somebody in the back with making a comment before I'd love to have them make their comment We're gonna speak loudly Because it sounds like they're saying The law the size the way it's positioned The structure which I think was left out of the memo or whatever was just Files, but it sounds like they actually are Fulfilling some of those really hard requirements in the in what you need to get it there in so I'm not I guess I'm hearing that It's difficult, but I'm not understanding what they haven't fulfilled You know the hardship is clear The hardship the financial hardship the way the structure is the fact that there are things on both sides I think you this person articulated that even if they bought the land the way it's The topography all that stuff it sounds like they're they're saying aside from all of our emotional feelings that we We want some great restaurants there. They actually have to fulfill what you're asking them to fulfill improving that Um They need the criteria for the Americans The the problem that mr. Fahey has raised is a problem that Exists even if the parking solution is satisfactorily Done in other words, even if everything that was said in the report by the town Is correct and there isn't a parking problem Uh That by itself Doesn't get you where you need to go In the application it says to describe the circumstances relating to the soil conditions shape or topography Which especially affect the land or structure in question And the difficulty is that the state doesn't provide in general for a relief From the conditions of the zoning ordinance just because of hardship Only some kinds of hardship count And the answer that we have here and it's only three sentences in the application Do not really address the way in which soil conditions shape or topography Create the hardship that we all agree is there And so the problem that we have under state law that hasn't to my Satisfaction that has not been addressed yet Is how it is you can relate the hardship that we know is there To the particular circumstances which allow us to take that hardship into account And this is all sort of moved I know that it was there in the original variance criteria The in the application, but there there isn't really an argument There's just simply a statement of that is similar to what you've heard The planning department also does not really address this issue It just sort of assumes that hardship by itself would be enough There is a question about how it is that this would relate to the underlying structure Now this is a really important issue to the people in our island heights And it's one that I would like to see actually developed in writing That focuses hard on exactly what it is that has to be proven And that addresses the other precedents that are said to exist and why it is that this is different from them So that I understand that if I want to do something that I would like to do I would like to say yes to this That I can do that without violating my obligation under the law And we have not got that developed at this point I have the feeling that if we were to have to proceed on the basis of the record we have Right now it would be very difficult for us To be able to articulate the rationale that would allow us to do this And just saying that well, of course you can't build parking on on the site Doesn't answer the problem. It just helps you get to the problem And so I would like to see this record develop more I'd like to hear answers to some of the questions that people are asking and I would like to see somebody take their Very best shot at providing a rationale to this board That says that we all can do what most of us maybe all of us would really like to have done But we we have to do this within the framework that state law provides And the state law that provides this is deliberately set up in such a way that hardship by itself doesn't matter So the applicant obviously has control over what he wants to do what they what they want to do next I'd hate to have to decide this tonight based upon the record that that we have I don't think that it is developed enough and that there's been enough concentration on what the critical legal issue is And the applicant I think has ways of Of helping to provide that improved record But I would be very skeptical about our ability to move forward in the way that you that most people here would like Based on the record that we have before us Thank you We would be happy to provide additional information if we would continue The hearing and supplement and I think it's fair in light of just receiving You know this memo on this specific issue Just to let you know from the the precedent that I had referenced the other approved restaurant establishment We presented Our argument in the very same way and with almost identical fact patterns So it is a little bit of a surprise to have this Additional requirement and I would appreciate The zoning board directing us to the information that they would like us to provide additionally Because we it's very much In line with if not identical to the other applications that were submitted and approved for bearings So you've seen the applications that were applied for the other Yes, and the decisions of the board at the zoning board. So so it and it was and the Discussion around the buildings was the limitation of the the concrete structure and the the frontage and the You know being mid-block and very very much similar as I said Well, I think flora was exactly 70 seats that they were looking for as well and we were approved parking. So it's I'm not sure what else we could provide But I would need to look a little bit more deeply into What was responded to and this is actually a response That was provided not to our application, but to the planning departments Memorandum in support of it. So they Have referenced things and they have noticed deficiencies that are not deficiencies in our application But with that said if we were to continue the hearing if that is the pleasure of the zoning board I would be happy to supplement our application for the variance and And answer that particular issue Or others Let me take a stab at it at this here. So This area specifically was developed Around street cars and the train. So there was a the train stop at park av So this area was developed before cars Or when cars were pretty infrequent and When the bylaw when we did the first big round of zoning in 1975 there was an Attempt to try to reconcile the fact that we do have parking requirements now. And so all the spaces on mass av all of a sudden Are there and they don't have parking spaces So what do you do? So my understanding is that the At the time the decision was made to essentially assume that each Storefront on mass av has the equivalent of forced parking spaces associated to it Um and that going forward if when you do a change of use you're required to meet the new the requirements for the new use um, and so this Storefront was granted four spaces But You know that obviously the building was not built with that in mind And that whole district was not built with that in mind And so When you look at the when you consider Sort of the the shape of the building and the way that the lots are developed and you consider the topography of how that area Is laid out There are There are places that do have the ability to park. Um, so it's not You know this this is it's not every single space in the entire district. So it's not A general issue with the district but a lot of the properties do have this issue that they do not have access to parking Because it was not a consideration at the time the building was developed So if we accept that that The reason that the circumstance of shape and topography is related to the historic development of the area and that Those structures were developed with a primarily pedestrian and rapid transit Bent to them and not automotive Then can we say that That is a circumstance related to the shape and topography of the structures Which is a part of that criteria And use that as a way to Validate going forward to the literal enforcement provisions or desirable relief and the nullification Because this is going to yeah, this is every single site and If this building if this had been a hairdressers originally and we and ballacks wanted to open Ballacks would need to provide 20 parking spaces That's what the zoning by-law requires now Um, and there's no way they would ever need 20 parking spaces. So I would contend And so I would certainly contend that we could say That the circumstance relating to soil condition shape and topography of land or structures Especially affecting land or structures, but not affecting Generally the zoning district is that this is an area that was not developed for automotive access and that That is the condition Of shape and topography that Would move us into position of considering granting of variance christian That just came out. Yep. It was passed by town meeting Was there a discussion ever about this requirement because that stayed in place. Is that what happened, right? So the recodification process We very specifically tried to not change the Change what the outcome of zoning would be from the previous to the new we were basically doing a cleanup working through it so that It was a clean slate so that we could then Make amendments afterwards related to these kinds of things and so since then there have been some very well publicized plans put forward by the arb in terms of multi-use and other kinds of things to try to Change that some of the density requirements and change some of the parking requirements in town So I guess my question to the board is do we want to consider So what I was talking about in terms of condition one or do we want the Applicant to reconsider and Request a continuance and come back Do any board members or maybe council Assuming the chair we accept the chairs argument on the first prong of the variance You then get to substantial hardship to the petitioner And I don't know if you've read the cases on that they talk about that financial hardship going forward for him If he opens this would not be the issue It's going to be existing typically if somebody has owned a lot of land they can't use it at all So what's your argument for financial hardship assuming you get past the first argument here? Well, I think as the acting chair had mentioned the There is a hardship to this property that is under lease by my client and There there would still it would there would be an impossibility On this lot for that To have anything and and if Baelic was coming in they would be required to having The the spaces that do not exist there as well So it's not just that it is a restaurant in there. Even that's you know, that's what the community has told us they want It is a it is a hardship for that property indefinitely and And I think it is consistent with the with the other Elements that have been discussed And survived the other applications and variances that were issued by this board So essentially the hardship is that Whatever use was assigned to the property when the by-law went in place in 1975 that use cannot be changed And that would be the that would be the hardship for the property That's right because that would not relate to one of the other impediments here though is that It has to be not only related to the soil condition shape or topography But it has to it cannot affect generally the zoning district. It has to be specific to the property In question. Well, certainly the people across the street have a parking lot Okay, her savings bank has access to parking but everybody on that strip arguably if they were changing use has the same issue That is true So so so typically just so the people here understand what we're usually looking at for variance Is that somebody has a lot and they want to build their garage But they can't put it in the place it would normally be because there's a whole bunch of ledge But nobody else in the neighborhood has ledge So they come in to us and they say it this condition doesn't affect generally The district but it affects us and we would like to actually move it closer to the lot And those are obviously much more concrete examples And those were a little bit easier for us to envision and to deal with I think the problem here is partly because We have what christian has described as these sort of throwback Building designs from before You know cars were being widely used, but we still have that language about how do you associate Of your particular problem with the landscape topography or soil condition and as Patrick had said earlier, that's where I think we all struggle because If we all like the idea We still feel that we have to satisfy those criteria And that's where I don't honestly see That those have been addressed Substantially enough and You know that's I'll speak for myself I agree I mean they'll just be thrown back at us. Yeah So at this point would we recommend to the Advocate that we continue and they Work on their we would be happy to and as I said, I think that You know as there's been additional issues and in response to The first criteria, we can supplement our applications in response to your questions and in response to this Memorandum as well And can I ask too because I know that we should have access to them but you have Noted as one of the speakers said the cases of olivia and flora. Yeah, I didn't see those in the materials And if those are provided that would also be something that I would like to take a look at Absolutely, and if We could be provided with a little bit more direction on the the the soil conditions as I mentioned It's and we will provide the the case support for this. It was not otherwise Um heavily discussed in the other cases. Um, and so it was The least impactful one from my reading and I You know, so I'm happy to provide you with anything else The lot is what it is and you know, we won't be able to Make up anything that isn't there, but um, you know, if there's direction on what you're looking for We can certainly provide it Sure Step up so we can hear you. Sorry I live at 29 valentine road I have to say everyone my head is totally spinning because it doesn't feel like we're spending enough energy I appreciate christian your efforts in terms of how to get to yes This issue is an issue that serve houses of this summoning board, which is dealing with the parking issue This is about us in arlington showing some leadership and figuring out how we can all work together to satisfy everybody's concerns Sam's concerns are legitimate You know, and he's a value part of the community as well as you know, the hockey institution What we need to do is to sit a few people in the room smart people to figure out how we get to yes And then leave there with the plan rather than doing a continuance making this poor gentleman wait another month draws expenditure I don't know if it's the planning commission. I don't know if it's the town manager I don't know if it's town council council They're really saying we are going to figure out a way to make a commitment to businesses that want to come in arlington And make it work To make sure that there was a spot that a kind of accommodator restaurant, right? And so we really don't want to leave here tonight with a and no vote B with a continuous thing I call this individual more challenges What we want to leave here with is the sense of the reflective community as an action plan to address this issue So thank you for your leadership, but I do hope it comes up even a level higher than the zoning board to get everyone together Thank you for your time So essentially So So once we reach our decision Any decision reached by the board is appealable within a 20 day period That appeal goes to land court. I believe it's the first stop And then to from there it goes to supreme judicial or whatever. So essentially Any decision any decision reached by the zoning board on anything That arlington redevelopment board as well is appealable through the court system and so What what john mr. Orc was sort of saying here is that you know, there there is a lot of precedence in the court system for Zoning boards You know saying, you know, this is great. We'll give you a variance. We think this is a great idea And then it gets to the courts and the first thing the court says well, you didn't meet the criteria and they immediately Reverse the decision And there is a There's a lot of unfortunately There's a lot of history in the in the court system for that So that's why we're trying to be really careful Because we really want to be be sure that whatever decision we make can stand and we can defend it I'm going to just add one word to that That what I hope that we can get out of this and which I think the lawyers need to go back and look at the cases too Is I would like us to have a defensible theory for why it is The appellate bodies Will affirm this because if we don't have that It'll it isn't going to make this this restaurant established any faster I have the sense that it's likely to be appealed unless you work it out Afterwards and the appeal is dropped And if that doesn't happen And if we don't have anything except the fact that we all want what you all want to go on That's exactly when they send it back to us and then and then It's over with at that point. So With all the leadership in the world when you have an appellate court There's only so much you can do and what I would like what I would hope to have Is something that I can look at that would say, okay, this is the theory This is how those first two Two provisions of the first two criteria are satisfied And that is that's a fairly arguable theory that we've got a chance to get to get by the courts And I don't feel that I mean I think that christian The chairman was he's got something and it might be helpful It also might be helpful to find out more about what the thinking was in the other cases So that you have a whole scan of cases that applies That applies elsewhere in our linkedin as well I don't really actually know where that's going to come out But at the end of the day in order for us to do what I would like to be able to do We have to have at least a fairly arguable A fairly arguable theory as to why it is this meets the This meets the This meets the requirements of the statute Now I notice that if only the Tom meeting and it's ineffable sometimes ineffable wisdom Would have made this a special exception a special permit use we would not have this problem We would have had we would have been out of here an hour ago But we don't we do have this problem because this is a very very It's a it's a it's a very very A tiny opening in the needle and that's what state law wanted It was just to get rid of people for whom it would be totally unfair Because of some kinds of matters that the state looked at that gives you relief And it isn't a general discretionary relief that allows us to do it because it would be a good idea And that's what we're struggling with So you have you have just to be clear. So you say you've contracted for 10 spaces um, so we have Six six spaces six spaces The the other question I have for you is how far back I know you said that there's a plan there Yeah, how far back does the property actually extend behind the delivery of the building? It's the land owned by whoever so there's a there's a there's a very small Access road behind there, which is where we would take deliveries Which would still be very difficult to do and we would store trash and things like that And then it is it is legend in this area that we wouldn't be able to but you know how far back the walk line goes It not far at all. Yeah, so it's Just 20 feet back from the back of the rear of the property But you have the whole length of the building, right? Well, no, it's an access we no we only have the middle block of the building. No, but I'm just saying that parcel is owned So it's owned from the bank Right. No, no all the way back whoever who are those individually owned that whole. Yes Those are individually owned. So we that's what I was saying We only we only have access to the middle block middle block of there So, um, you know, we can't even if we wanted to pile a bunch of cars in the back access road because we We only have easement rights to it. Um, so behind the other buildings, um, so And you're saying that it's ledch Um, yeah, it is it is and I think there's actually a brook behind there as well So it would be difficult for As I said more than difficult it would be impossible for us to Do anything and And again, we would have to get rights to the area behind us because In order to do that to put those spaces so I mean ultimately the determination of whether you want to continue this is really yours, right? So, I mean but based upon the comments of the board thus far Do you wish to have a continuance? I guess is the yes, that would be the pleasure of the board I think that we'd be happy to supplement our application with additional information um, and uh, certainly, um, as I mentioned we responded to the application in full and focused on the elements from the prior cases that were really, um Uh Heavily alluded to and there was a lot of reasoning behind and the the soil conditions I mean that was not one of them, you know, so, um, we this it's a little bit of a surprise And I'm still a little unsure how we respond to that but we will certainly make an effort to You know, my concern is um as one of the comments was made, uh, it's it's an additional Expense in delay is an expense for Um, uh my client, um, and it will have a chilling effect on other businesses that are responding Um to the neighborhood action plan. Um, and it will say that We it will be nearly impossible for us to Meet the the criteria as the goalposts continue to move for us So that that's additionally my concern is that, um, without some sort of Relief from town meeting Um, you know, it would be um It would be difficult for us to, um Meet any any of these additional requirements regarding the soil or anything like that. I mean, it's um But I will provide the case law and we can just discuss it further if We are able to be on the agenda at your next meeting. Um, we would appreciate that February 25th Excuse me February 25th. We have two cases at night. Um unremarkable A large issue may be usable open space, but nothing of any great significance Yes We could certainly accommodate children of 25th of February. That's Acceptable to you Or is there any additional direction? Um from the zoning board regarding the that specific issue regarding the soil Or the topography that you would like us to present on I don't want to overload you with information that is unnecessary. Um, because it wasn't necessarily provided in other applications Well, I'll just tell you this. I mean, that shouldn't be a surprise to the first factor. It's in the statute Yeah, we responded to it and um, I think what the board is saying is what we've seen was insufficient to answer that To meet that factor. So we would welcome your arguments to meet that factor Is there anything in particular? I mean, that's my question. I want to respond. I don't want to respond to, you know And I can have soil testing. I can have to I mean, we can do all that But if there's something in particular that you don't see as far as this property, then I'm happy to respond to it But if if it's just a general Lack of understanding of the impact of the property, then we can respond to that I'd like to try to get away from this business about the impact of the property This has absolutely nothing to do with the impact of the property on soil or topography It has only to do with Finding out that your hardship is due to something about the soil or the topography or the shape Of the property or possibly the property and structures that gives rise to a hardship that we can take into account So for god's sake, don't go out and retain anybody to do soil studies That's entirely beside the point the issue is to look at the case law and to figure out how it is That you can fit what you would like to do under what the courts decide Is what we can do And it's it's almost a pure question of law at this point. I don't know that there are any more facts that you can tell us I think we get the facts everybody gets the facts the problem is How do you fit it within the terms of the statute so that we have something to go on? If we decide that that that a barrier should should be granted And it's you know, that's where your problem is And I you know the chairman has already given you one line of argument I think the discussion has generated other possibilities But now at your job to go out and figure out the argument that's go that that can persuade us that that we can make a legally correct decision Thank you. I appreciate that. So we will return on To the 20th Okay Can you see may want to um have you fill out a continuance request for continuance why we're going to have the board sign it Okay, do that right now So we'll bring us to docket number 3611 27 melvin road Okay in two minutes To docket number I appreciate everyone's patience. Um docket number 3611 27 melvin road It's a special permit under zoning bylaw section 518 districts in use So if you can please introduce yourself Peterson homeowner and resident at 27 melvin road Our melvinian alpha construction and our brine road hopefully going to build our addition My name is ben. I because i'm an architect for the project where we're seeking Relief from the zoning bylaw 5.4.2 We're applying for a special permit as we have proposed an addition. That's in excess of the uh 750 square foot special, okay The addition is for 1190, excuse me um 1190 square feet gross which includes A basement area so the footprint as you can see on the plans Is 24 And a third feet roughly by 17 and two-thirds foot So while the addition proposed is for over a thousand square foot the footprint is actually Pretty limited over three floors because it's over three floors We fill up the addition is In character with a single family residential neighborhood that's It was noted by the so the The department of planning and community development reviews the applications to see if they have any questions um And one thing they had noted Was that the landscape and usable open space calculations were not done properly? um, so We would Essentially and put that through as a as a requirement on the On the final decision to correct those to the satisfaction of the building department Yeah, um special services took over to review the calculations. Okay We did redo them. They far exceed the minimums. I think the open space alone is the excess of 100 percent are in that neighborhood. I'll get you a copy of the Of the new criteria Perfect. Thank you. Thank you And then there was a the site plan the existing peak Elevation and the proposed peak elevation are different than the water on the architectural plans Neither of them are In a problematic range, but I just wanted to flag that for you. So you're aware Okay So the proposed peak is listed at 117 and on the plan it's at 116 10 three Yeah, the survey around it out. That looks we just yeah, I mean it's a 30 foot 35 foot Okay, I had a question. It's so the the basement floor plan Um So it looks like there's a there's two storage areas in the basement But you're providing an egress window from the storage area. I'm not sure why Yeah, um I sort of I wondered if that would come up. It's a um, it's proposed to be a storage area. Yeah Maybe it'll be a ping-pong table There's a stair that splits the two sides We have no expectation of it being a habitable living quarter at all, but um We sort of we're looking at small, you know, typical basement windows And realize that why not just put something that'll shed more light And then at that point if you're going to go down two feet go down three Those are the questions I have remember the board questions and then I know that we've come across this before So I know the planning starts putting in the Comment about the storm water runoff and we know if I'm correct that that's going to be taken care of Anyway as a part of the process again So all they need is permission from the board to build an addition Seeding 750 square feet additional gross play area All the other conditions such as storm water mitigation The new tree bylaw will be in effect with this one because it exceeds 750 As well as all the building code issues and other dimensional and density aspects of this only bylaw What they have to get by is the fact that we cannot issue a permit by right that exceeds 750 square feet Patrick any questions? So anyone from the public who'd like to speak on this being none Yes, please Around the table with some of the people that came to do work Can I have your name please I'm sorry No, I'm sorry your name Thank you And if I'm correct there the good neighbor agreement would be required to be a part of this as well Which would be notification to the abutting neighbors as to who the contractor is Who's in charge of the project what the plans are and so that you can if you have issues you have somebody you've been directly contacting So it'll be I think it goes to the abutting neighbors and the abutters to the abutting neighbors So it goes to levels of houses out. So you would definitely be included in that distribution Oh, no, that should be yeah, it should be everyone. There's no other So I will make a motion to approve the application as it's been presented Second All in favor Congratulations, thank you Appreciate your patience Good night The next one will be docket number 361344 Lachlan avenue to the special permit under zoning bylaw section 813 not performing single family or two family dwelling Canovani live at 44 Lachlan. I also brought signatures of support from my neighbors So To build a dormer in our third floor and understand that Falls under section 8.1.3 for open space. I'm sorry again. Can I just have you mean with the record? Canovani live at 44 Lachlan. Thank you. This was just the attic Yes, dormer they're facing the rear. Yes So this is one of the cases where the existing usable open space is zero. We are changing it from zero to zero, which we Determined by convention is not a breeder No, all right The only thing I would recommend For the dormer where the roof pitch is listed at 2 percent, which is the Minimum it's allowed to be it's just to make sure that it doesn't float below that Better to better to err on the steeper side. Sorry Anyone from the audience who'd like to speak in regards to 44 Lachlan this place Explain a bit what the criteria is that makes it when it's within and you're considering a variance. How do you decide yes? sure so for typically when you're dormering your So the the zoning district is for a two and a half stories And so the question is how do you get to that half? And by the criteria that's in the zoning bylaws The area that counts towards that half floor is anything with a ceiling height of with a Height from the floor to the underside of structure That is seven foot zero or greater Under a sloped roof that has a pitch of at least two percent So are two twelve. Excuse me. So What that mean What that means is that if you do What it's trying to accomplish is that You can't take your entire attic floor and bump the whole thing up Because that would be a three-story building, which is not allowed, but it forces you to Under that envelope You can create dormers Whether they're sheds or whatever To gain that additional space in order to make that area habitable So this is actually a special this is actually a special permit And the reason it's a special permit is because the property is it has a nonconformity to it Which is that it has no usable open space and so if The property had usable open space. There would be no special permit process By right, sure anybody else entertain a motion Second all in favor I opposed Congratulations. Thank you Okay Next up is docket number three six one four 20 beacon street special permit under zoning bylaw section 518 districts and uses Get your plans out. So, um, I'm the applicant. My name is Dan Longchamp. I'm the homeowner at 20 beacon street And also prepared the plans here That you see tonight So i'm seeking relief from zoning section 5.4.2 b6 large additions seeking relief for nonconformity property to construct 1270 square feet of new living space The existing property is 4931 square feet lot with Right now is On my zone on my assessor's card. It's 1036 square feet of living space. It's actually a little less. It's like 900 So that that's what i'm seeking We're removing part of the existing structure to provide this new structure so that total net is About 1170 square feet of new living space so I have filled out Some of the calculations in terms of what's conforming. What is it rick? You have a note on the Open space gross flour area sheet. I do so again We took the liberty of looking at the application and just rework the numbers. They were more inaccurate They are so a lot is It's a good size a lot again after the construction if the if the Additional is granted they would still have usable open space at 52 percent Right now as it stands it exceeds 100 percent open space slow relatively flat much less than 5 percent It looks like you're not changing any of the Well There are some adjustments to the setbacks But nothing that would put it anywhere near the property line with the exception of the continuation of the existing Uh line relative to the Right side property that is correct and in looking at the condition speaking with a builder for the project. It seems that In order to excavate It may need to push in closer to the property line. I'm not entirely sure that we can maintain Closer to the property land or away from the away from the property line Yeah towards the inside of the site just based on the construction of a footing So we would take, you know any precaution to make sure that we wouldn't undermine the neighbor's property Does anyone here who'd like to speak to 20 beacon street none? I'll entertain a motion Second all in favor I opposed Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay next up is docket number 5 41-43 pond of view road special permit under Zoning bylaw section 813 non-conforming single family or two family dwellings We made it So i'm juliette packard. I'm with i'm representing dickinson architects and these are clients emma murphy and drew ditto and they In kathy murphy my mother And we're the homeowners. They're the homeowners of 41 34 degree pond blue road Um emma and drew specifically owned 43 the upstairs unit 41 Okay, 41 upstairs unit um So, uh 41 343 pond view road is a non-conforming lot with a non-conforming two family house Jew and emma who live in the second floor unit Would like to finish their attic as a half story so they may have a third bedroom They are seeking to increase the gross fair footage of the house. Therefore they need relief from bylaw section 813 b Which states that usable open space shall not be less than 30 of the gross fair footage The current open space is 14.88 percent The proposed open space is 14.05 percent This is a drop in usable open space by only three quarters of a percent So you brought i'm i guess you guys have some more packets that we brought Elevation showing what we're proposing so two dormers um very similar to the docket couple ago, um so So the largest one would go over here And that's the side that faces the pond So accommodate the bedroom and the bathroom and then on the other side of the house There's a smaller shed dormer that accommodates a stair which is Greatly needed because bump your head if you didn't have it on the side opposite Is that steering i noticed that the budding house on that side has a Very large dormer facing. Yes that one right there Are you going to steer into each other or are you just far enough beyond it? I don't think we will stare into each other because And I could be wrong But um, I think that their dormers starts a little bit farther back and then dormer over the stairs is a little bit Further forward. Okay, but even if we do stare into each other, it's just the staircase. So it's just be transient We won't be spending The height of the window too will probably be Mostly above your eyes in location And we can make it smaller to occupy the theater Although we saw the window we stare at each other today from our bedroom so We're friendly um, and so do you guys want to add a bit about why you feel that the increases Yes, we're we're seeking relief and to add these dormers to so that we can have a third bedroom our our unit today is a two bedroom and We moved to Arlington in 2017 and we really like it here and would like to stay here for The next 30 plus years and grow our family and having the third bedroom would Make that doable. Absolutely Yeah, and I think yeah just Having the option to expand your family In this neighborhood also it adds social value to the neighborhood Adding a third bedroom adds monetary value because increases the value of the house Which therefore ultimately increases the value of the neighborhood. So it's a win-win Any questions from the ward I have no So anyone here who would like to speak to this? On food rope and and I would just note from the earlier decision that we got today that when this was Approved back Not that long ago. Right. I have a copy of that. There was no Open space at the time. That is correct. So by doing the what they did at the time Uh, they actually increased it and so had they increased it to the number That they're now seeking to use it would have been permitted as well And the reason for the decrease in the usable open space has to do with the increase in the gross floor area It has nothing to do with the size of the yard Okay, and so then the only question before us is Is the minor adjustment in the amount of usable open space Is there any issue with the seven criteria and I see none in the planning department certainly saw none either At mind all entertain a motion All in favor I opposed Wonderful All right, so we got one more item on the docket Rules and rights, so luckily we get to do away with one So so the adjustments to the comprehensive permit by law I submitted to council to who asked to submit it to um, john witton who wrote the original and is our Uh consultants for Comprehensive permits he has not gotten back to me. So I'm going to ask that we not Discuss that one Other one. I know I printed and I know I brought it So from so we had voted Um That we were okay with these last time but we wanted to pass them through council So the our general rules and regulations. Um, I had a couple comments back from duck Um, and I forwarded you guys the changes one had to do with the section 225 on the online posting of documents um, which Is a little more forceful in terms of Documentation can be posted That we will require the documents come to us Come with a pdf copy with the understanding that that will be made publicly available either as a part of the Agenda or on the town's website So we'll have the we will have the content and the ability to post the content We are including that and then there was Uh, under 333 He thought it was important to add something about, uh, the public shall adhere to rules of decorum during debate Because we didn't really have anything About that and he thought that that was important to to include because it gives us a little bit of tea to somebody's Outside of that that we can Can we make sure Mr. Mills reads this paragraph? And then there was Right right right Talk about them and I'm just wondering whether or not we have some specific It's actually a part of Robert's rules that may be referring to you. So Yeah, I mean that Essentially, the rules on decorum are mostly, you know that you You listen politely you don't shout over somebody else. It's those pieces Is this language focusing on your shoulder personalities and things like that? Is that from Robert's rules or is that language Put in by town council or somebody So would be me I I think that those that came out of a conversation between myself and council as a way to try to I think it came about primarily because We were discussing this immediately after the first Return hearing on the bugar property and there was a lot of heated debate and there was Debate going in directions where it should bottomed. So we wanted to make sure we included In my my sense is everything after the word including is absolutely right on I'm just a little bit worried about referring to Robert's rules unless we check my rules You know, I'm certain that when somebody else does that and they've been excluded from the hearing So should that uh, that they don't like the rule that that does the thing So if we were to actually so if we struck Robert's rules and just said members of the public should adhere to the rules of decorum Add the word rules or I guess strike the word robert's So we'd say she'll adhere to the rules of decorum during a debate including game play addressing and we'll just leave it at that Yeah, that would be fine with me. Is there a objective? Yep Oh, and then the last one was section 343 voting members of board shall sign the official copy the written decision Either in person or an electronic format acceptable to the town's group So that we don't have to keep writing down and I don't have to keep breaking through the bachelor sign Seven o'clock at night. Yeah Yeah Okay, so with that in mind paying a motion Rules for the zoning board of appeals This is subject to anything that we get back from So this is this has been vetted by a council. So this would be our final This is it with as submitted with the word robert's struck I move that the board accept these rules with Uh, the striking of the word robert's Just robert's right. Yep Second all in favor. Hi Just just to be clear. So, um, I can now accept electronic signatures. Yep, and I can file the decisions signed electronically with the clerk And um, the secretary of state wherever else they may go How do we do that as a practical matter? How do we do? Multiple electronic signatures will you will Yeah, I'm gonna be able to each send back a signature page or you're following. Yeah, no, absolutely What's that? Do you know the procedure? I don't But I've been trying to get this I've been trying to get this in for a while simply because Um, this board is pretty good, but in the past It's been tough getting the guys to get that signature I only have a certain amount of time to do it. Yeah, let me work on how I'm going to do it But the fact is that we've got the green light to go in that direction. It's huge Um, what I'm sort of going to do is do a draft decision Send it out to the board for your comments get it back to me. I think in the time where I can write this up We'll figure that part out Is is that this is I'm just not a technical person is that I know doctors I'm gonna use it with Client to use it, but is that something where we have to have the program? Yes So I'm sure it's easily downloadable, right We can't be the only one that's went into this problem We put multiple electronic signatures on the page and we have to ask them to get the 20 out of the way So I get purchased in silver and that's all the time we've done so So to make the rules regulations official. Yes. Do we need to provide you with a signed copy? How does that work? Yeah, I'm gonna talk to Doug. Okay, as long as you have already been Sounds like you guys He's probably have to know about deleting the rockets out of the robots rule But then we can go forward with it. I'll ask him how we can officially adopt that. Yeah, perfect And then hopefully I'll hear back from him and Not so long about the the comprehensive permit rules. Okay Excellent You My understanding is that we're supposed to receive documentation in March in the next hearing would be in April So we're gonna call it was April 14th. Yeah, okay, that's correct We're gonna have that the main time of all Oh Is there any other business before there's any board of appeals? No Yes, I'm just having a procedure a question. Yeah, you have 20 days to appeal any decision, right? Correct. And so after that point Be in touch with the building department Or how was that? Contact the zoning board of appeals. I'll step you through it. Okay. All right, great. Thank you very much. Perfect. Thank you The zoning board of appeals is easily reached online go to the website. Okay, and just give me the information And we'll get back to you. Okay. I appreciate it. What's your name, please? Dan. Dan the long channel. Okay. Thank you very much Have a good night. Thank you I heard a motion to adjourn on table. All right, we are adjourned. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you