 So the big question is are you saving for your old age if you're not or if you are this is that interview for you and I have Mr. Simba himself from Octagon Pension. Octagon Pension? Services Limited. Services Limited. It's a service company. Right. Thank you. Your camera is number four. If I missed anything I'd like to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself. List all your credentials where necessary. Okay. Thank you Barry for having me this morning. My name is Godwin Simba as you've said. I don't have many colleagues. I'm the current managing director for Octagon Pension Services Limited. Just a snapshot is Octagon Pension Services Limited. It's a subsidiary of Octagon Africa Financial Services which is one of the leading financial services company in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia. Mainly focused to awareness on pension matters. So we do pension administration a lot. We do a lot of trainings, training members, training both members both in the public and in the private center and also a bit of investments advice especially on insurance and also on property investments. So there are so many places to put your money in this day and age. Yes they are. Only if you are precise, if you are focused and also if you clearly understand what is your goal when it comes to investments, you can have a bouquet of so many investment opportunities ranging from the basics which is probably buying a plot, probably moving into shares, stocks, yeah. So there are very options. But today we're here to talk about saving for your future and securing your future which is the core business at Octagon Pension Services. So I'd like to start on the service spot. I've never imagined a financial company having the service in its title. Right. Service is basically the intangible element of probably giving you know value for money for somebody. So when you look at issues of advice, advice is intangible. If today we engage and I advise you, one of their long term, like we've been doing before they do. Yes that is intangible. So that is the service industry we are looking into. So you actually create a value for individuals through advice. That is what we probably look at. We look at what are your needs, what are your short-term goals or your long-term goals when it comes to investments and we look at what are the available investment opportunities that are there now. And also it's more than just investing because you have to also manage risk which is not the insurance that will come in. All right. Risk has to be managed already. Yes, you have to manage right from day one. All right. There's no big thing without risk. Risk has to be there. It's very important. All right. So how does somebody become MD? How does somebody get to this point where you've gotten into this young age? What is your background? My background is in natural sense. I must admit that my age is barely, I mean the mid-30s as we speak. And my growth in my career has been driven by so many factors. One being the early experiences I got in the industry and also the other bit is the ability to have learned through my career journey and also have skilled myself to get to where I am. And maybe for information, I was a manager at the age of 26, which was barely two years after. But you don't say. I should not say. This is another legendary story in the making right there. And I'm wishing you all the best in your corporate career. So you studied natural sense. Right. Then you say you had experience at a very early age. Right. So did you have a job while in campus or what? Not really. I remember when before I just graduated in campus and I had one semester to go and I was at Kenyatta University. So what I did is that I woke up one morning. I just ran through all the companies that could potentially employ me. I came up with the list of 200. I used to have a rucksack then. I printed all the CVs, put them at the back of my, I mean at my backpack. Then I came all the way to town, topped all the CVs in Upper Hill Town, Westlands. Then I went back to campus. Three weeks down the line I got my first call to just join some, some, some investment bank when a safari called my IPO came on board. That was my first experience in a formal employment. Below the organization I was working in, there was an organization downstairs where I created relationships. Within like two months I was actually in the HR department doing some core roles there. So it's about the, the, the, the ability to know what you really want and also being precise on who are your potential employers and that, that actually helped me a lot. All right. All this determination, all this spread, all this knowledge that you had back then, because not so many people are thinking like that. Did you have some sort of mentorship or it's just a trait you were born with? Yes, I did have role models, people who probably I would have looked into in terms of, in their corporate life. And I remember when I was at, in my second year I made, I made like a promise that perhaps I would want to be a CEO at 40 years of age and that's, that has been my driving force but lucky enough it came five years earlier. Wonderful. Oh, that's, that's a picture, picture, risk story right there. So I'd like to get into what you do now. All right. And which is the, the, the pension scheme. Yes. And you invite Kenyans, you invite you also in Uganda, you also in Zambia. You invite them to, to save for the future. All right. So we have the National Social Security Fund. Yes. They do something similar to what you do. Right. All right. So why would somebody opt for, for private pension scheme company over one that is already there provided by the government? Okay. So maybe just to, to, to, to just demystify the fact that the NSSF is actually angered by the National Social Security Fund Act. That means then this mandatory pension arrangement that if you are employed, you are supposed to actually contribute to NSSF. Now, when you look at it from a structural perspective, it is a good, it's a good social protection tool. But in terms of the quantum, the amounts people contribute. NSSF requires that you contribute 200 shillings and the employer contributes 200 shillings if you are in an, in an employment. Now they've also opened up so that you can contribute as slow as 500 shillings into NSSF. But when you look at the journey towards retirement, you, and also look at the adequacy. The amounts that people get from NSSF is actually not sustainable. I remember when my mum retired two years ago, she was paid actually close to 700,000 shillings after working for around, how many years? 30 years. So you look at it and ask yourself, is it sustainable? Is it adequate? Can it promote long-term, you know, the old age longevity? Because the first thing I mention is that you have to manage the risk that you can live longer. So if you're going to live 30 years, will 700,000 be adequate? This is the only place where living longer is a risk. So now you have to look at and ask yourself, how do I augment this amount of money? So if 200 shillings is not adequate, so there are other arrangements that you can look out as an individual, which are more flexible, more agile, and these are now the employer sponsored schemes. If you're in formal employment, if you're not in formal employment, you can try what you call a personal patient plan. And there are so many in the market, including what we do as octagon personal patient plan. If you dial now your phone, start 237, you will start saving within two minutes. Start 237. Start 237. We did two minutes. We have an app called Mobikeza. So Mobikeza is just for the informal sector. If you're not in any formal employment, it's much easier for you to just end all and start saving. So those arrangements are in the market, which actually allows you to start contributing. So there are different payment plans for different people from different social classes, from different sectors, from different employment plans. So another thing. What are some of the reasons you hear people giving for not getting into pension schemes? I'll look at it from two key areas. One is that in the Kenyan economy that we exist at the moment, you find that our disposable incomes are not adequate. In fact, on average, most Kenyans are below 100,000. Actually, around 50,000 to 70,000. Anyone with informal employment. Now, the bigger reason why pension is important is because then you're going to have to start saving at your early age for you to have something adequate. So for individuals who are below 25, around 18 to 25, you find that you have so many priorities in your life, probably going to do investments or probably going to have more of entertainment. You want to have the short-term needs. You want to enjoy life at your point in time. So it doesn't ring a bell that the clock towards saving for retirement has actually started ticking. And it should start when you get your first job. That's the first one. The other thing that we look at, which is also a challenge when it comes to saving for retirement, is the perception that you all imagine that you will never retire. So what does that mean? It means that you defer that thinking of saving. Nobody believes they're going to get old someday. So you don't get old. But remember, in fact, we do have normally a meter where if you are 18 to 25, you are saying, no, I'll start saving at 40 years. When it gets to 35, 40, you are like, maybe I'll start saving when I get around 50 there about. When you get to 40, 5 to 50, now you are like, you have only five years to retire. That's where now you start running up and down, panicking. You make wrong decisions. But saving, and I will never look at pension as if it is anything outside any other investments. The only thing is that pension is long term. But in that mix of the many investments you can do, you probably have to secure something for yourself at that point in time. And again, as well, there is a risk that probably you may not even get to 50 years of age. And if you're a young guy, definitely like some of us. This is also something people consider. I might die before I get to age. And what happens in such a situation? Now, you may die, probably, not because God forbid, but if you die at any particular point in time, perhaps you have not considered that at that point maybe you have a kid, you have a wife. Probably because even nowadays, most youth by 20 years of age, they already have very formal or informal, you know. Yeah, you have somebody who is your next of kin and they look at you and don't see you. There's a familiarity. So you only wait until you die when they show up. So the point I want to make across is that there's also the element of risk. That, you know, savings and investment is not only for the future. It could be immediate in the event that you are not there. So that means then you have to manage that risk that today something can happen. So we will take care of that young kid you have. That you left behind. And not even that. Some of us who probably, if you're not married, for example, you could be having people who depend on you. Like your parents, for example. If you do your normal hustles, you know, day to day, you are supporting them every weekend. That is already, that is an element of dependability. So there's a gap if you die. There's a gap that is going to be left if you die. That's 1,000, that's 2,000. That's where now we need to have a conversation around insurance, around pension, around long-term savings. I'm looking at all that bookie. What is it that you can do in the short term to cater for your needs at that point? So if there's anybody on this planet who's depending on you, you need a pension for sure? Yes, you need a pension. It's a very critical element. You need insurance because then that also helps to manage the short-term risks that may come in. But pension will provide you the long-term perspective. You've insisted on this insurance, but is this a service that you provide yourself or you outsource it? We do provide. In fact, when you look at the pension arrangement that you do have, the informal, the personal pension plan you do have, it's actually embedded with a death benefit and also embedded with a critical illness in the event you get critically ill. There's a benefit that comes to it. And also there's also the last expenses I've mentioned, which in the event of death of an individual, you also get what you call a funeral cover, which gives us a benefit to handle the funeral expenses. And that is all a bookie that helps you manage both the long-term, which is pension and also the insurance. All right, wonderful. Nobody likes to be in line. They're waiting to get services. So you guys came up with a genius idea of having the USSD in a mobile app where people can manage their pension at your company. How does this work? Let's start with the USSD. When we modelled it, it was actually to cater for individuals who are looking for an arrangement that's convenient, flexible, and you don't have to walk into an office to be enrolled for pension. So we looked at it and saw if you have a mobile phone, whether it's on Android, a smartphone, or this day, you probably need to enroll yourself. So when you go to the mobile phone, you just need to dial the USSD star 237 hash. It will ask you for your ID and for your name. And once you key in all those details, it will ask you how much do you want to target to save. Because that is important because we will have to remind you if it's weekly, monthly, we will have to remind you your target of 1,000 is do this one, try to put it in there. And it's even easier because the USSD is linked to your M-Person. So it actually puts a push notification to your M-Person to just key in the pin and it just debits. And you can see your searchmen every day, every minute and also you can see the interest that you have allocated. Now on the app, it's much easier downloaded either if you have an app store in Android, just download it Mobikeza and you can start saving within a short time. Two minutes at once, you're on board. Two minutes at board, you're on board. All right, remember yes, your Facebook as well, your Facebook as Y254 your Twitter at Y254 channel and Instagram at Y254 underscore channel. We have a question on Facebook and we really appreciate your views, your comments and suggestions. So we're going to take a short break then we'll be back with Mr. Simba for more information, for more details. Back as promised. Now topic of conversation is pension. Are you saving for your future? Have you secured your future and the future of your loved ones? I have Mr. Simba himself from Octagon Pension Services Limited just to share more info on this. But before he talks to you guys on Twitter at Y254 channel and on Instagram at Y254 underscore channel we have a question on Facebook and I really appreciate your feedback that we are going to sample towards the end of the show. Now back to you Mr. Simba. All right. We left off at you telling me about the app and it's easily accessible on your phone. You can actually secure your future through your phone. You can get the registration done and you can get to saving. All right. So another thing is Kenyans have gotten into a fraudulent financial deals before. What are some of the things as a Kenyan I need to look at about a company before I get into bed with them? Good. It's actually a concern to the majority of the population that we look at making I would say that you want to make the easy money from the easy way and sometimes from a professional point of view because I've worked in an investment firm and one of the key fundamental issues that we always advise the client is that do a research do research that's first individually do research about any investment you want to do. Number two always professional advice be it somebody who has done it before be it approved or registered investment advisors but all in all you need to look at the research the advice and also do a bit of groundwork to just make sure that the people who have actually introducing your product are actually tested what are their success stories and basically the challenge which we all find ourselves into is that there's no quick money there's no easy money in this life I think that is the most fundamental thing if you're investing think twice around it but also the most important thing is that better slow and also better slow but sure in terms of your capital that you're putting into any investment you're looking into sometimes I would look at and I'll advise any person that if you're getting an investment that is anything above 10-15% just look at it critically we in fact had some banks a while back even the most traditional banks we had were giving us rates of almost 18% but within a short time they collapsed because then the higher the risk you take of course the higher return the higher return you're looking for there's always a high risk that you can likely lose the cash so the advice is just take your time don't be in a hurry you cannot be an overnight millionaire unless you're doing gambling you're doing betting which you all know it works that one is much clever sports players are gambling or if you're in any other brand that is gambling that is there's no overnight success you have to really work hard for it you have to really think through it and make the right decisions there's nothing like an interest of over 15% you need to look at that critically what are your interest rates at Octagon we have actually looked at we've been doing close to around 12-13% on the personal patient plans this is per year why I said there's nothing more than 15% it's in relation to the model of investments that we do have currently in the market because patient funds on average have given a return of around 12% and we're actually within the range of 12.5% to 13% and that is because we have diversified investments into different asset classes you find that there's some on equities there are some on property there are some on bonds there are some on cash and quality postings so when you combine all these in fact we used to even have a time when property used to give so much returns a while back but then you're seeing a bit of a slump in the property market so yes there are some select investments that will give you a higher return even more than 20% but the risk you taking into that is very high because then the chances that you may likely lose your money so when you expecting higher returns the risks are bound to be high very high how can they catch you online how can they get to see what Octagon is about online if you want to know more about us just go into the website www.octagonafrica.com you can also follow us on Facebook we are at Octagon Africa and as well as Twitter as well and also LinkedIn so you could just look at such Octagon Africa you'll be able to follow us on social media tools and we could be able to advise you our experts are always available to give advice whichever way you're looking at I hope we can get a piece of advice for free from Bono today from Bono today what is one thing you wish you knew in terms of financial literacy back in campus first personally I've invested in many many opportunities out of it 70% of them I lost 30% I would say out of all the investment I've did have succeeded but in the ones I've lost it gave me a learning point to be able to now manage my finances very well one thing I'll not regret is that I'll not regret that I didn't try yes I took the risk to actually go into farming and I lost almost half a million shillings I went into an empire shop and somebody called me and those are the risks that it gives you what the life skills and you even tell people that even if you're in formal employment starting a business is not easy because you require the skill the skill to take the risk and also when you lose you know I can still try another day and move forward into it so back in campus the thing that I would have wished to have done better then would be to ask myself first of all is to get my career choices right because then at that point in time there were so many you could do a degree program and I did actual science but I didn't know that you know I have to start my purpose early for me to be able to be a full certified actually for example and if you're doing BICOM for example you need to understand the dynamics in that sector you're moving into so I'm happy at that point in time I did some professional exams number two when it comes to investments personally I studied through the help program you could get some loans and all that but ideally I was saving some money so by the time I was finishing campus I had like almost 15,000 extra that saved so most of it is that try to manage your expenses life is not about at that point of course my colleagues, other colleagues every night, every Friday you're going for Dunda and all that so yes you need to cut down on that because in fact there's more pleasure when you enjoy that life when you have actually made your money you're still struggling try to save for tomorrow so it's more enjoyable when there's a bigger chunk of money you pick from to go for all day coming from your own investments from your own sweat thank you very much I'm looking forward to another one I'll call this the first class of pensions saving for your future so we'll have a second class for sure I hope you'll be available class 101, there's one or two this one has been just for you, are you saving for your future and are you planning to save for your future, if you're planning to save for your future the guys you should be talking to octagon pension services octagon pension services alright you can find them online as octagon pension services and yes from there you can kick it off this is still entrepreneurship Tuesday on why in the morning and my name is it's my morning of social media platform don't go no