 Good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's council meeting I'll call a tenth regular council 10th regular meeting of the common council order as Adam Richards, please call the roll Sorry Balmain D-Berg Eberg Serta Davis Graf Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Sigali Stefan Sushia Van Akron and van der Wiel 16 present forms present Alderman gruff Thank You your honor I would move that we dispense with the reading of the minutes of the last common council meeting in the same stand approved as entered on the record There's a motion to a second second under discussion Not always in favorite police state. I I the opposed motion carries Next I'd ask Alderman Montemay or to lead us in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Alderman Montemay Mayor's appointments They're turning between And this is dated today's date the honorable members of the common council hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Chuck Butler to be considered for appointments the coalition ambulance quality assurance committee to fill the unexpired term of Steve Schefner Whose term expired for 30 oh six signed by the mayor And Cleo messener to be considered for appointment to the Historic Preservation Commission to fill the member position of Jean Davis Cleo messener's term Will expire on 430 08 Indicates that I'd also like to request the removal of Alderman Montemay or from the strategic fiscal planning Commission Committee so as to abide by resolution number 19-0405 Which deleted the chairman of the committee of the whole as a member signed by the mayor and that will lie over Next we move on to public forum City clerk Richards Excuse me first on the list is Audrey Odden and Audrey could you give me your home address please and you will have five minutes I'm here to address the issue of the Convention and Visitors Bureau as an alderman I served on the CVB for seven or eight years and not once did a complaint come in regarding how Sheboygan was Represented regarding publicity in fact, we were amazed at how fast we were growing as a tourist destination in 1993 according to state statistics Visitors spent 106.7 million dollars which grew to over 271.4 million in 204 The first year and a half I serve serving on that committee I was convinced that the city should keep all these dollars and Administrative it ourselves, but believe me it wasn't long and I knew that it would not be a wise move I began to see how much work time and commitment was involved This was done by Denny Moyer mr. Sheboygan The committee members and a host of volunteers who lived and worked in or around Sheboygan For the city to take over the marketing of this business and to get outside consultants Who wouldn't do nothing about Sheboygan would be a huge mistake? Tourism is not just fun and games. It's a big business The Chambers Convention Visitors Bureau has been in the business for many years If there are things you do not like the professional thing to do would be to speak with the committee Not dump them and start from ground zero. We need each other We need to advertise the hiking and bicycle trails with Sheboygan as the hub The destination for sleeping and eating we need that to advertise Elkhart Leaks ruled America again With Sheboygan as a place to stay we need to market the golf courses whistling straights black wolf run The bull along with many more as being part of Sheboygan suburbs So visitors will want to stay here and then go out from all to all these exciting places Don't you see we need each other. It's a business The Chambers made up of businesses from all over the county and we need those connections That sheboygan should be showcased more heavily needs to be addressed But let's not throw away all our past relationships. It takes people with a real passion for Sheboygan Those who know there is absolutely no better place to live and is it and are able to be to go out and promote our great community? Please I'm begging begging you for the betterment of Sheboygan. Let's work with the Chamber on these issues When you were elected as an alderman It was to represent your constituents to make Sheboygan the best place to live and work That also means working together with the county. That's called shared services the words We have heard so often in the last year Please let's get behind the Chamber and the Convention of Visitors Bureau and let's work together Now I'm going to shift gears a bit Building a new police station has become a major problem We desperately need a new station. No questions asked about that We're to build it the city should not be buying prime land when we have city-owned land available First of all, we do have city hall to add on to But that would not be my first choice a better place would be the old recycling land across from the municipal service building Where even the gas pumps are available It could be a beautiful area along the riverfront It's an area that all of Sheboygan knows where it's located It is centrally located not even a minute from eerie avenue from Taylor drive or south 14th street And I wanted to state We own part of that To buy the rest of that probably would cost a lot less than when the one we're thinking of on highway south highway Please let's not spend more dollars on land Let's use the dollars we save by not buying that land and put it into the best police station we can afford Please take another look at that property and let's get started now Thank you again for your consideration oops Thank you Next on the list is val Schultz Val can I have your home address, please? Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to have to rush through this a little bit in order to complete it in five minutes My name is Val Schultz. I live at 1747 greenfield avenue I was allowed to be president at a public protection and safety committee meeting for comment when my communication Concerning the new south side fire station was on their agenda The finance committee did not afford me that same courtesy However, they did have a presentation from a contingent of the fire department You all had a copy of my letters. I would not rehash that now unless someone has a question I would like to give a little more explanation for my concerns I had intended to drop this matter after bringing it to the attention of the council But at the public protection and safety meeting the fire chief made a comment that completely flabbergasted me I will get to that comment later My concern is the effect on the budget and tax levy. It is not an issue with the fire department It is strictly a fiscal issue The city's total yearly debt service currently is approximately eight million dollars and consumes a little over eight percent of your budget And it is growing With an additional proposed borrowing of up to 17 million dollars for the new police station The debt service for that will consume even more of your budget The 18th street bridge was built to provide quicker response time to the far south side for emergency vehicles This area is zoned rural residential About one third of the area within a one mile radius of the proposed new south 18th street fire station Is in the town of wilson 18th street. This is the same street. The other south side fire station is on only two miles to the north When additional development occurs more farms are annexed and we find a way to staff and maintain an additional station without cutting other departments Then you could consider this project At the last council meeting you had a fireman here tell you they are short-handed And yet the chief says he can build and staff another fire station without hiring another fireman The fire department provides a necessary and professional service about what level of fire protection can we afford? Every other surrounding community has a volunteer fire department With what appears to be adequate fire protection because they are all experiencing development and growth And 25 of our city of shiboyan firefighters live in these areas with volunteer fire departments Alderman graff has been quoted referencing the school liaison officers that the council has to prioritize spending And that there may not be funding for liaison officers I think priorities are confused when you would consider eliminating liaison officers But borrow and spend 72 000 for architectural design And 720 000 dollars to build a new fire station. This does not include operating and staffing I don't fault the fire chief for edificating this fire station, but it is your job to prioritize these requests What is nice what we really need and what can we afford? Response times for the area of rolling meadows drive on the far north side have got to be greater than the south side Will the station for that area be the next request and what do you do then? I receive so many comments from people living on the south side questioning the need for another fire station I felt compelled to write the letter that I submitted to you I ask that you seriously consider all factors in your decision to make this major investment to build or not build this new fire station There is not a major groundswell of support from the public for this project Now for the comment the chief made A comment that cannot be ignored and yet no member of the committee questioned it I found it extremely troubling and you all should also he said Most of the storm water capital borrowing has been removed from the capital improvements program Freeing up borrowing capacity for projects like this I'll repeat Most of the storm water capital borrowing has been removed from the capital improvements program Freeing up borrowing capacity for projects like this Folks that comment alone should cause every one of you to reconsider your support for this new fire station When I was on the council, I supported the storm water fee program with the understanding It would reduce the city's borrowing and along with that the debt service that is consuming a good portion of your budget Others opposed the storm water fee saying it was just another tax and borrowing would continue at a high level It appears they may be right Property taxes will continue to increase along with the creation of user fees and yes, you will be considering user fees Folks the idea of storm water fee as I understood it was not to free up borrowing capacity for other projects Mayor you ran for office pledging to remove the storm water user fee or tax I do not know where you are with that pledge I would hate to see it discontinued But on the other hand if this fee or tax and others are going to free up borrowing capacity for more projects Then maybe it should be discontinued. I made it Oh, thank you. Very good timing. I was just going to call you Okay, next on the list is dimple adams And dimple can I have your home address, please? Certainly 1424 virginia avenue, and you will have five minutes. Thank you Um, thank you council. Uh, thank you mayor Uh, and susan, um for miss richards For allowing me to come and speak to you again tonight Uh, before you you have a letter that I have written so Uh, I just want to touch base with a couple of more issues. Um That are not in that letter, but uh, I am here to speak about the police station But I want to briefly say something about that. I would like to see the continuation of the contract with the chamber of commerce for another year And that's all I'm going to say about that. But um, because I want to reserve my time for why I'm here Um The last two or three weeks Uh, and especially this past week I have seen letters to the editor Where they are calling council members And people that don't agree with them idiots bozos Um, you know, I don't I don't get that I don't I don't get that kind of of speaking I I think that uh, it's okay to disagree respectfully With each other and and it's not going to be possible For everyone to agree with everyone all the time And I think that certain respect needs to be kept Uh, and so that that bothers me a great deal I also have had some letters, uh, quoting some things that I've said And uh, I don't mind being quoted as long as that I'm quoted correctly So I would like for people to really take a little more time to research their facts Okay First of all, we have to purchase a site For the police station Because we don't have a site that's not paid for Uh, we took that option off the table may night There's no sense in going back and rehashing history That happened. It's done If we had kept that site The police station would be under construction as we speak And probably would be finished up in the year 2006 in early 2006 well because we Took away that option Now we're faced with choosing another site And we have argued it and we have hassled it Until it's just unbelievable to me But let's just talk about the two Sites that we hear about the most Which are 23rd street and vandervaart 23rd street It's my understanding that we would be paying $300,000 Plus giving a parking lot which Cost us $484,000 to build And if my understanding is correct if we were to rebuild it would cost us a million Plus build a salt shed for them So if you add all that up That comes to about a total of one and a half million dollars That's my figures and I really try not to do fuzzy math Now the vandervaart site Is 15 acres and that's a four and a half acre site The vandervaart site is 15 acres And it's going to cost about one and a half million dollars Now what else do we know about vandervaart? They stood here in front of this council two weeks ago and said That they are going to move And they are going to sell their property In fact, they have already purchased property outside of the city limits But They are interested in building in their industrial park at that 14 acre site So they're willing to to talk with us About that and possibly purchase that site which would keep them on the tax rolls for us Which I think would be a win-win situation And they would be willing to pay Somewhere in the neighborhood of 320,000 to 350,000 at the 25,000 per acre Okay, so within we would be getting 15 acres We'd still have our parking lot downtown Plus we'd have plenty of room to build a police station And then maybe utilize some of the other acreage to sell off At what my understanding is right now Evaluation of about a hundred thousand dollars per acre So I figured that site maybe is down the road going to cost us $800,000 we're still going to have vandervaart in town To pay taxes and if the county doesn't want 23rd street Why don't they just sell it? And put it on the tax rolls for the county And for the city why go through all of this? I just don't get it. So that's my reasoning on that Excuse me. Um, that's it. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you Next on the list is dwayne does gardens Is dwayne here, please Okay, then we go on next on the list is jena steinhard Gina can I have your home address, please? Sure. Now my address is 1311 maryland avenue Okay, and you'll have five minutes. Okay Thanks for the opportunity to speak here today I'm just an average ordinary resident of spoigen with no political ambitions I don't enjoy speaking in public and I don't enjoy being quoted in the paper I just want to save money and survive like most of us around here The theme for this current administration seems to be to bring the public closer than ever before To the decisions being made regarding our city In light of that the proposed shared in park site for the new police station was Preserved and a police station will not be built there However, now the years of this administration seem to be turned away from the public People have spoken up at numerous meetings in public input sessions regarding The um preference for the vandervaard site with certain officials and the shabuigan press Seemed to feel that the north 23rd street site must be chosen when many people are against it Even the police prefer the vandervaard site over any others considered If this is truly an administration who is listening to the people Why haven't we heard you speak in favor of this site? In fact, we've read in the press how mr. Graff said this site will probably be eliminated Even before vandervaard had their chance to speak to the council Keep in mind that the general public is now aware via the press That the zimmerman's report reports final decision on where to build the police station Is not necessarily correct It's been made clear that the vandervaard site is the most cost efficient of all the choices remaining Knowing this I cannot see how the common council could possibly pick that site Not only has it been shown by the police the general public and by those neighbors That it is not the best location. It is also the most expensive because of the items not listed in the zimmerman report whatsoever People have been submitting their concerns to the council Only to have them referred to the committee then filed Which has been shown to be basically thrown out never to be discussed again In fact two weeks ago. I sent a letter to all of you Pointing out the errors in the zimmerman report and asking for answers to why these large Items were left out I haven't had any questions answered And have been told that this letter will probably be referred to committee Which will probably be too late to get any answers since the decisions will be made Based on this faulty report At the input session on july 20th our mayor said that the police department was involved a lot Also that the department heads work for the city, but don't get elected Their involvement is critical crucial and key But there comes a point when their involvement has to stop and the decision making responsibility Lies in the council and the mayor These comments were made after I asked why the police department's choice of location isn't being considered Even chief kerck said he had no direct contact with the people who created the zimmerman report Why even have these public input sessions if you aren't really going to listen to the to any of us And answer any of our questions or concerns Council members have also submitted questions, which are document 10-7 and 10-12 on today's agenda That were referred to the public safety and protection committee last week Um, they're about the police station site, especially the north 23rd street site and the extra costs involved I attended this meeting and saw that none of these questions were answered. This also was just filed I don't understand how you can make an educated decision on this on the best site when so many questions go unanswered And so many facts are ignored The public is watching this council and its actions regarding the police station Some have even said that it will never be built based on the recent inaction This situation has gone on long enough Please listen to the people and pay attention to their concerns about these costly delays Many of us cannot afford to have our taxes go up drastically just to please the special interests of a few It seems to us as if losing doesn't mean anything That if you keep bringing it up, you will eventually win Just look at the example of the park and now the tourism commission These decisions were made many times, but then were challenged over and over until they were eventually overturned The need for the police station in the Sheridan neighborhood Was proven again yesterday by the fact that a seven-year-old girl was followed and then flashed When riding her bike near the Sheridan elementary school What more needs to happen before you see the need for increased police presence there? We need to stop being penny-wise and dollar foolish by stalling the eventuality of building the new police station We've already lost over five million dollars since march of this year due to the bickering and fighting over the location Common sense should prevail. I recently said at a public input meeting Please cut back on your exorbitant expenditures and get the job done without any further delays and cost increases We are all depending upon you to do the right thing. Please prove that you can really do it. Thank you. Thank you, Jim Next item on the agenda is the mayor's report wanted to give you a An update on the mayor's evaluation. I spoke to you about the mayor's evaluation that was being done by department heads I find it a very very useful managerial tool to have departments head Communicate with me in a manner in the form of an evaluation I ask each department head to be very candid with me And that's what I got. They were very candid with me and I was very appreciative of that The evaluation dealt with things like What are some of my strengths? What are some of my weaknesses? What are some of the biggest challenges that we face? What are their expectations of me? What are their expectations of me with respect to other departments and so forth? There was an evaluation Intended to help me be a better a better mayor For the city, but also a better manager for our department heads So overall the evaluation was uh, was quite successful The next item I wanted to speak to you about is the citizen's budget process that is presently going on We have done six schedule meetings one on the side that I did at the senior center We've we've had about 174 people that have attended Some have been repeats as some people have referred to them But for the most part a lot of people have been new to each district that that we've had them We have had surveys returned To us that we've put out so people can take with them at the site and we've had people return them We had about five more weeks of meetings to go and a total of 10 more Scheduled listening sessions with respect to the 16, but I will be doing a lot more. I am going around talking to social Service organizations and so forth And just about anybody will sit there and let the mayor for us talk and listen Be it one person be a 10 be at 100 be at 200, but I'm taking the message out to the to the community A question was raised earlier by an alderman if you're unable to attend a listening session In your district, that's okay. You can attend any session all the sessions or no session You're welcome at any one of them. You're welcome to send friends. You're welcome to to send anybody But by all means if you're able to attend it would be it would be great for for your constituents and yourselves The other topic that I want to touch on Briefly today and it's a topic that I want that I want to touch on I'm going to leave this on yet This is some of the budget challenges that we're going to be having I want to touch on these challenges so that you can start getting an idea of what we're up against with respect to revenue and expenditures Building projects we've heard a lot about people don't want to take taxes anymore. They don't want to get taxed anymore They don't want to they don't want to be assessed or feed anymore So I want to talk to you about where we stand right now with respect to our budgetary process What some of the projections that we can reasonably make We're also looking at 07 already My expectations are in my discussion with mr. Gebhardt that 07 is going to be worse than 06 I know that I thank mr. Gebhardt for his patience with me I talked to him about budgets more than twice three times a week ever from since I got in but It's important that we work on this budget because that's what that's what drives us The budget is what drives us the budget is what makes you accountable holds you accountable to the public itself So what I'm going to do is I'm going to have six charts. I'll go through them very quickly This is not this is not a time to be asking a lot of questions I would like for you to ask me questions. Please jot them down We do have a full agenda to go But I wanted to take this opportunity to talk to you a little bit so that you can start preparing yourself And thinking budget mode because we have a this is a time where a lot of people start lobbying For certain money And we need to be aware of where that money is or where that money isn't so I'd like to share those charts with you and talk Susan would you help me here, please? And once again, we're going to do it in the form of charts here Now these two little guys little charts here Are pretty important to us first of all they tell us where our funds come from And then they tell us where we actually spend it and that pretty much sums our budget here But if you look at at our revenues where we're getting our revenues from 47 percent of our revenues come from state revenue sharing 47 percent Now when we think in terms of revenue, it's money coming in so that we can provide the basic services to the community For the last two years state revenue sharing has level that means we're not getting any more But we're not getting less for the next two years Guess what they're level two So we're not getting any more so we can pretty much anticipate and expect that amount to remain pretty steady Our tax levy Is 41 percent Now the tax levy comes out of your pocket. That's where we go to the public and get the money from So if you look at where our major sources of revenues come 88 percent comes from tax levy and state revenue Now the legislature has imposed a limit on our levy They control that and they control that 88 percent of our revenue is controlled by the state That leaves us with not too many options when we want to go out there and get more money If we're if the council is going to be thinking and it may have to not on my recommendation But the council may have to ask for more of the tax for more tax levy the only way to do that is to have a referendum The rest of the money comes from Little bits and pieces here license and permits fines and forfeitures and so forth not a lot. Here's our main Pocket right here. And as I said, that's controlled by the state If we look at the other one here once we get the money here And folks that's all we got. So we're going to get we're not getting any more People have told us we don't want to get tax anymore state's telling us you're not getting any more for the next two years That's what we've got to spend. That's what we got in the pot Now the next question is well, that's what the money we got. How are we going to divide it? How are we going to spend it? This is what we've been doing. This is what we've been what we've been spending our money on if you notice half of it Goes to public protection and safety police and fire 32 percent goes to police 20 percent goes to fire almost half of that goes goes to there public works Gets about 21 percent Parks and senior center gets about nine and then administrative gets about 17 It's important to note here because the question has been raised Administrative is the general government fund more or less. So what that means Included in that is not just salaries for administrators, but also the cost for the city hall the building across the street The the armory the shanties things of that nature all that is considered general government cost So it's also we've referred to it as administrative But when you see administrative it tends to lead you in a direction that's its management That's not all it is. There's a lot more involved But again, this is all the money we've got that's what you what you're going to be working with This is how we've spent it before before in 05 The question is is that the way you want to continue to spend it? And this is why it's important for me to go to the public and ask them the same question They're the ones that vote as an office and it's important for me to know from the people What is it that you're happy with? What is it? You're not happy with how do you want us to spend this money? In this manner or not? Is this the way you want us to continue it? So if police and fire protection are very important to you Let's keep doing it or add more If public works is more important and again, we're going to have a debate here amongst all the departments This is more important. This is more important than everyone and this is more important There's no end to that debate everyone and they and they should consider the department to be the most important one So again to recap. This is the money we get It's all we're going to get This is how we've been spending it. Is that the way you want to continue to spend it? Now these charts are available in my office for you to review and you can also If you attend the listening sessions, they'll be there and you'll be able to ask questions also there And provide input. We'll go to the next two charts So if we look at the money we get how we spent it and you look at Original budgets for major departments. You can see a trend of how the money has been spent Okay Now there was a comment raise a question raised before these are original budget That means that's what we budgeted. Now the question is is that what we actually spent? The answer is yes, and in some instances maybe a little more But if you look at police here from 1996 there's been a steady increase all the way up And that's fine If that's the way the council wants to spend the money we collect the money we're limited to that's fine If you look at public work, well, let's look at fire fire has gone up a little up And that's fine too. We do need public protection and safety. We need fire protection police protection But keep in mind that the more money you put in one major department Another one's going to take the hit because you've only got so much money to go around So if you see public works Wow come down somebody's going to take the hit Library and parks have remained pretty steady For the most part But the important thing to note here is this is the way we've been spending our money So our police protection has gone up hadn't gone down Fire also hadn't gone down public works went down Is this the way we want to continue spending the money that we have because all we have now Is probably what all we're going to get and it's going to get a little worse If you look at state revenue sharing, which is 47 of our budget what we get you can see Someone made a comment during our listening session looks like a big dipper And I guess it is dipping But you can see where it just went all out of whack and then here about 204 just took a bane drop And oh four and oh five it leveled off. We're not getting any more from the state folks We're not getting less, but that's all we're getting and for the next two years It's frozen too. So when we budget our money, we know that's all we're going to get so we have to work So the question is what is it we want to spend our money on? Or what other sources of revenue do we have now keep in mind as we look at the major departments We have five things that are happening right now that are going to cost us a lot of money We have a we have a new police station that needs to be built That's going to cost and it's going to add to our debt service that's going to come up off operations We have a new fire station that's that's proposed to be built We have arbitration awards that are pending we have a municipal court that's pending and we have operations costs that are going to Take a hit on our budget for police and fire when we have to go maintain and staff those Those fire station at the fire station the police station So again the point is we can do all those five great things and I think they're great Question is do we have the money to do it? And if we don't do we have a source to get it from People have told us don't taxes anymore states telling us we're not giving you anymore So the next question is well if the state won't give us anymore people don't want to get taxed anymore What do you say we borrow some that's the next chart? We can't Borrow anymore We are allowed to borrow five percent of our equalized value The council has imposed self-imposed a limit of three percent Which is about 70 million that may change because our equalized value may change this year But it's not going to change a tremendous a lot a tremendously up If we look at our debt it's gone Consistently up all the way up to almost maxed out Now any credit card analyst that deals with credit cards on personal debt will tell you the minute you had 50 percent and go over Guess what you're in trouble Folks i think we're in trouble We don't have any more money coming in from the state taxpayers don't want to give us any more money We can't borrow So what's the next question somebody said ah we got reserves and unreserved funds Can't use that either it's your option you can do that But if you do that we're going to destroy our bond rating the unreserved funds are like having a A savings account because the money that we get from the state doesn't come in one lump sum it comes in intervals So if we spend that money and we're out of that money in our savings account what's going to happen We're going to have to borrow To keep the lights going to keep the fans going to pay our staff and guess what happens when you borrow You pay interest if we don't have the money now we won't have the money to pay interest either We've got some serious problems. So we can't we can't get anymore from the state taxpayers Don't want to be taxed anymore. We can't borrow anymore. We certainly should not hit our reserve unreserved funds What's the solution the solution is how are you going to want to spend your money? You've got major departments. They're going to be out there lobbying hard asking you for money We've got the money. We'll find it. I don't know where because the last time I checked and I think it was this afternoon When I asked rich we can't print our own money We can't coin our own money. We have none So keep in mind what is it that we want to spend our money on this is going to be a big heavy challenge for us If you look at our general fund expenditures Expenditures you can see where the expenditures went up and the revenues There's a gap here So what's happening? If our revenues aren't going up and they're sitting here idle Our expenditures go up automatically every year. We have steps in longevity wages and salary premium chair Gasoline just between the police and fire. We have a little over six million dollars worth in vehicles. They don't run on water So we have to buy gas. We have to pay higher utilities all these costs are automatic without in any regard whatsoever to how we're going to pay for it That's our job. How do we balance this budget? How do we? Close this gap because when your revenues are here and your expenditures are here And they keep going up. There's this huge gap in between. You're either going to have to bring the expenditures down Bring revenues up and revenues can go up as far as I can see unless somebody has some really ingenious way of doing that And if you do, please call me or call rich because we need some ideas here But that's where we are folks We're at a point right now and I'll tell you what We don't have the money for oh six coming in from any sources. Oh seven is going to be worse So what's going to happen? Do you give money to one department? You're right. Somebody else is going to take the hit You're going to have to pull money from some other department to give it to that department So what is it that you want to do? That's Burden it lies on every alderman here when we put that budget together and I say that's very important because we're going to have a lot of lobbying done I feel it now. I hear it now. There's a lot of lobbying. We need this. We need that. We need that Just ask where do you think we're going to get the money? I don't have the answer But we're going to struggle with it and we're going to come up with something But it may just turn out to be we're going to have to cut services And when you cut services folks you cut people But if we keep going at the rate where we're going I won't and I'm a in my own naive way. I said mathematically we're going to fizzle out. We cannot continue to The demand for our expenditures at far exceeds our revenues And there's no chance of that gap closing yet unless we bring those expenditures down And the only way to bring them down is cut services cut here cut there And you're going to have one department or two or three say we're more important cut them We're more important cut them That responsibility lies on your shoulder So be thinking about that and those are some of the budget challenges that we have As I said the charts are available in my office for anybody including the public And if you have any questions feel free to write them down share them with me share them with mr. Gebhardt and we'll be glad to give you some answers. Okay. Thank you And I forgot to mention the charts and the surveys are also questionnaires are also on our website. So the public The alderman anybody can access can access those Surveys Next we move on to the consent agenda Paul and serda you punch first. Thank you honor I just wondered if you could just clarify that one pie chart and it was the 2005 Fund appropriations because you're saying that this is available to the public I had noticed that some of the numbers weren't actually reflective like of the staffing And it's I think important to mention that those are projections Budgeted but not actual what we have in in terms of staff. For instance, I think it's at 113 police officers Okay, so the percentages may be a little bit off. Thank you Paul McGrath Thank you. You're on your own Regarding the consent agenda before I get into that. I'd like to pull forward dot rc's 964 and 1061 Um Motion to pull 964 and I'm sorry, which one and 1061 1061 And with that, um, then I make a motion that rc 964 Be accepted and adopted and rc 1061 also be accepted and adopted and these both refer to the um The um room tax in the chamber of commerce There's motion to accept and adopt 964 and 1061 there's a second There's a second under discussion Under discussion your honor, um, thank you, uh regarding, uh, 964 that's the committee report by finance Uh that we approved at the library. This one calls stating, uh Uh that we issued a statement to shiboyne county chamber of commerce stating their contract Desire their contracts that they desired would um, like they would like to see a new room tax agreement for 2006 Recommends that that report of our officer be placed on file And that the shiboyne county chamber of commerce be notified that the contract for the 2006 Will not be renewed and we will bring The the process in house and then 1061 is the rc, um also by finance Regarding alderman serda's establishing a tourism advisory committee for the city of shiboyne and the finance committee recommended that that resolution be placed placed on file Okay Under further discussion Alderman serda Thank you your honor just for clarification for those at home basically what we're approving here is We're saying that by approving 964 that we're going to let the city Turn its tourism promotion and marketing in house And we'll be denying the contract with the chamber of commerce and just severing that relationship And 1061 finance i did send that document to finance and they did um They did vote against it, but it what it basically does. I think it finds a happy medium Instead of one parameter is having a tourism commission. The other spectrum is taking it in house I've proposed having a tourism advisory committee And assured that this time there wouldn't be any miscommunication. I've also a lot of the mayor to be on board Older persons and um nice representation from all of the entities in the tourism and promotion commission. I think um I would also Courtesy to the chamber in our relationship. I think it's best that I'd like to make a motion to open the floor to the chamber Anyone who would like to speak Uh Alderman serda you're opening the floor to the chamber Board members how many people As many as are here as many as are here Okay Second there's a motion in second Okay Under discussion Alderman Ratke Thank you your honor in the sake of time and this has been going on for quite some time We've looked at tourism advisory boards and everything else I would like to amend that motion to open the floor to two members of the chamber two members of the cvb for Not more than three minutes each There's a motion to second Under discussion amendment Alderman graph well I was going to make a similar motion, but I was going to open the floor to not only just the chamber but Any other interested parties that that would like to speak But also to limit it to whatever the chair calls reasonable But this motion is on the floor. We'll take that motion the amendment to the motion on the floor Please you will call a roll here. Um, the roll call or vote Roll call This would be to amend the motion to include just two members of the chamber and two cvb members For two minutes for two minutes. Yes, two or three minutes. Which did you say how much three minutes? Okay This would be to vote on alderman ratke's amendment and I would be to allow two and two for three minutes bowman Dberg Eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Racky sagali stephan Susha Van Akron And vander wheel Six eyes ten nose the amendment fails amendment fails now We'll take a vote on the motion that's originally stated to open the floor to anyone any bright any chamber Hold my graph under discussion Thank you. And then at this time I'd like to make a motion that we open the floor to any interested persons That want to speak regarding this particular issue as long as it does not get repetitive Okay, but we do have a motion to floor your amendment. I'm going to ask for an amendment There's an amendment to open the floor There's a second There's a second under further discussion It's not all the favorite state I any opposed Take a roll call This is so with us. We'll take a roll call. This is to amend to anyone party interested Um Dberg no eberg Serta Davis graph Kittleson Thank you. Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vander wheel And bowman 12 to 4 the amendment passes Okay, we'll open the floor Yes, please Reasonable time will be three minutes Who would like to address the Allerman many thank you I would first like to make a motion to invite people to speak pro and con for the contract being renewed In some modified form those against any relationship taking it in house to try to balance the presentations That's my I think that's what we're going to hear. I don't know that we need a motion for that I think we're going to hear that All right, okay, and if we don't then we'll come back Could we have when you come up to the mic? Just give me your name, please so I can get record of that Sure, you bet. Dave gas 1921 arrowhead porch wagon I can ease your mind a little bit at the we're only going to have one person speak from the chamber cvb, so Maybe you'll give me a little more in three minutes I always want to say thank you for the opportunity to address you I know that all of you have received the correspondence from myself I Along with greg wagerman and richard rose jen are on the board of the chamber and we were asked to Look into this issue after the finance committee vote about three weeks ago And we've done that and we met with the mayor and susan hart and paulette and I want to thank them for meeting We met at two two occasions had some at a lengthy meeting and we appreciated the dialogue very much And we appeared at the finance committee Last week and presented some some thoughts When we when the three of us got together and met our goal was primarily to look at How did we get to this point? And how could we preserve the partnership that is the chamber and the city our focus wasn't to say, okay Who did what wrong who missed this who missed that our point was how can we preserve the relationship because It is our belief that the city benefits by preserving this this relationship this partnership between the city And the chamber cvb, so we looked at what had happened We looked at had our discussions and came up with the conclusion that indeed the oversight committee that had been formed Was not doing the job that it had been designed to do which was to make sure that there was good communication Back and forth and i'm not criticizing anybody in saying that i'm just saying that it was clear that it just wasn't accomplishing the purpose That it was intended and we clearly heard from The mayor's office and paul latin others that the city was looking for a different focus In some of the marketing and tourism The chamber and the cvb has always had the city of sheboygan first and foremost on its minds and promotion I want to put your minds at ease that we have not Market at the county to the exclusion of of the city even though the city is in the county obviously We have had sheboygan first and foremost and we want to continue to do that There were obviously there are some differences on how you carry that out We came the conclusion that we were willing to propose some major changes what we view as major changes to The relationship in order to preserve it and show that we can continue to work together We have a 2030 i'm not sure how long relationship and it strikes me and it struck us that this is a time When you don't want to destroy private public partnerships, but you want to maintain those private public partnerships So our proposal that you all have Is that we extend the contract for one year that we create an oversight committee which would either be the tourism committee or the commission We don't have strong feelings. We're ready willing and ready to really go whichever way the council deems appropriate I we have some ideas for specific changes in the tourism Efforts and we would would make changes in that regard We believe that by doing this the city will benefit and that's really our goal I'm a city resident and I believe that we need to get the most out of our relationships But I think as in my in our last letter we identified if I can very quickly identify the benefits by doing that We preserve this partnership, which I think is a valuable partnership to continue attorney gas We wouldn't it's three minutes. So if you wanted to my call, please continue. Okay. Thank you We would also continue during this one-year period. We would continue to explore the visitor center I know that has become maybe a source of conflict But we really believe that that visitor center can be something that's very good for the city of shabuagon We intentionally looked for places in the city because we wanted it to be Centered in the city and we would look to be able to try to build that visitor center if we no longer are involved in tourism with the city It's going to be much more difficult for us to do that But we would continue to look at ways that we could build that visitor center We would also I think that preserving the partnership builds on the inherent advantages that are with the cvb I mean when people want to come to shabuagon shabuagon county, they call up the chamber You know, whether we ask them to or not, they just call up the chamber that there's that inherent Believe that the chamber knows where everything is in many cases we do and by keeping that partnership We build on that inherent advantage. It's already present. You don't have to recreate that advantage And finally by keeping our partnership We can continue to work at getting the participation of other municipalities I would openly admit to you that we are not we have not been as successful as we would like to be We had hoped we could have gotten more participation for other municipalities We did bring on the town of shabuagon during the last term of the contract And we've been continuing to talk to others and our thought was that by bringing the visitor center on board That'll be another vehicle that we can use to attract other other Municipalities to partner with us in in tourism I guess the final comment I'd like to make is And you may disagree with me, but I don't think there's a downside to extending this contract for a year Frankly to transition in the remaining couple of months that's left is going to be a huge challenge And if we can if we can extend the contract for a year make these kinds of changes and we're open to some other changes That you might have We preserve this partnership and I think it allows us to see whether some of these other benefits can come to fruition If it doesn't happen in a year and you choose to bring it in house after a year I don't think the city has lost really anything In the process because again, we've agreed that you will have greater policy oversight during this next year So i'm asking you and the chamber is asking you is that you would allow us to make modifications to the current arrangement Extend the contract and preserve this partnership that has been the city And the chamber for a number of years. I think if we do that I think we're going to find that some really good things can come of it Thank you, and we'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have Thank you, mr. Gas. Is there anyone else that would like to raise some additional points different points And could I have your name, please christina cornetzky? Say it again christina cornetzky. How do you spell your last name? cornetzky Okay, I just wanted to make a point that um last week all the lodging properties in the city sheboygan met and We came to a consensus and um, I do have A copy for everybody if they like a copy of this With the signatures of the properties that are in agreement to this and this is pretty much of a Very vague of how we feel of the sheboygan lodging group We the following lodging properties of sheboygan area are concerned with the future promotion and tourism of sheboygan We hereby support the success and tourism that the chamber and cvb have brought to the sheboygan area Resulting in a continuous increase in occupancy in our hotels We are uneasy with the city of sheboygan taking on this enormous responsibility Without allowing us to see a marketing plan budget and goals That will be set to ensure that tourism will continue to grow and occupancy in our properties will also continue to increase It would seem not that only not only at the lodging group But the members of the common council would expect to see a marketing plan budget and goals before considering to taking this in house As several lodging people attended the finance committee Meeting we understand that there were recent allegations from the city that the chamber did not fulfill their agreement with their contract We feel that the chamber and the cvb have tried to come to a resolution And there has not been enough time or effort from the city to try to come to an agreement As lodging owners and managers It is our responsibility to ensure that the area is promoted to its fullest potential And to ensure that the economic impact that our properties have on this area are fully understood Therefore, we are asking that the city reevaluate to their Intentions and consider contracting with the chamber and cvb Or provide us with a marketing plan budget and goals that the city is intending to use to successfully market sheboygan And then to ensure that the occupancy and our lodging properties will continue to grow Thank you Well, miss agali Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, could we please have a list of the Ma'am, could we please have a list of the people who signed that petition please? Thank you Is there someone else who would like to address the council? Different point Sir you step up Thank you your honor Carter paulis Thank you far one for eerie avenue Thank you, and I don't think i'm going to need three minutes The letter that was proposed in the press To have the chamber Continue to Short change the city of sheboygan for another year One of the signers, I believe was attorney gas One of the other signers actually does is with the Plymouth chamber of commerce. I don't know how it got into the sheboygan press Are these gentlemen the decision makers Of the sheboygan county chamber of commerce alderman Do they have the power? And the majority And the executive Strength to perform what they think they're going to do or want to do I find the whole concept Very weak But the bottom line Is that the common council not the common council? I beg your pardon the chamber Short change the city of sheboygan to the tune of over 182 thousand dollars What are you going to do about that? Where is the city of sheboygan's money? And do you want to continue this form of action alderman? Is it okay to have them take our money? And spend it for something other than what the contract calls for and they don't even file Their contractual obligation in financial reports They haven't followed the spirit or the letter of the contract And you want to keep on having them do it We had an excellent presentation in the committee From paulette enders of what we can do And we had an excellent presentation From susan hart of what the chamber did not do Therefore I would hope That we put an end to our money going out the window To areas other than sheboygan And by the way, this doesn't affect your budget The money comes from room tax Nothing in the budget. There's no fear of overextended or created bureaucracy That's going to overdo everything We don't have that fear. This is an entirely separate thing And our city and our redevelopment Corporation is stands ready and able to perform And you have no idea how much intelligence is out there in the city ready to contribute for the city Thank you very much Is there anyone else that would like to address the council different points? Yes, sir And can I have your name, sir? My name is an Alton storm and I reside at 1736 marvin court I had no intention of speaking tonight and Usually if I speak for two minutes, I need two hours of preparation If I've got to speak like the last gentleman I can speak forever I'm trying to at least keep down my anger And I seem that a lot of people seem to have a doom and gloom against the chamber of commerce I've known denny moyer since 1971 I don't want to reveal his age But then but then he was a sports writer for the sheboygan press And he interviewed me when I hit the 795 series the highest in the city of sheboygan Along with a 300 game I've known him when he's been with the baseball I've known him now when he's been with the chamber of commerce and you couldn't find a better Sheboygan residents that we have in denny moyer And now we're going to throw that aside I don't like for people to come up here and make character assassinations and give figures And things like that, which would probably they don't have any numbers anybody can pull a group of figures out of a hat And I don't like to see people get up here and give us nothing but doom and gloom that Always reminds me of the democratic politicians and some of the moderate republicans. So that's all I've got to say. Thank you very much Thank you I think Is there anyone else who would like to address the council on different points? Okay, we will move on and take Alderman Serta One final comment. Thank you your honor You know, I once had the privilege of working under a tremendous Individual by the name of tim renzelman He was our manager and he had set a policy in place that always said if you ever have an issue With your co-workers have the courtesy to go to them first and try to resolve it If it can't be done then take it to management And I think that same principle could have been applied here This relationship with the chamber was a two-way street If at any time we had shared these concerns with them or wanted to take a new direction with the city I am confident because I've seen it anytime. I've had a question with the chamber about the policies the contractual agreement They were always there to give me an answer And as you've heard it, you've read it in a letter. They've communicated to the city They are willing to work with us make those changes When we do take this vote I do ask that we take them separately and that there's a clarification on what that vote will actually mean. Thank you Okay motion is to Accept and adopt nine sixty four and ten sixty one all over in steffen Thank you your honor I do want to thank attorney gas. I think the chamber has has stepped forward in this and You know, they have admitted their their failures The council has admitted our failures. I think I'm remaining. I don't know how the vote's going to turn out But I do remain convinced that whichever way it goes. I think tourism is going to be promoted better next time There'll be more accountability the chambers signed on to the advisory idea I think the majority of the council, whichever side they decide to choose has also You know signed down with the idea that whoever wasn't charged. It wasn't getting done On our side to look over it and I think that If nothing else comes out of the sets of plus, I just wanted to take a minute There were a couple of misconceptions that were out there And I you know, I don't want to hassle over them. I just want to point them out that you know One I kept hearing from people was that pallet enders can't do this. She's so busy She's not going to do it. We're going to hire a tour of the professional They have denny moyer. That was another consistent per everybody you talked to whether they were for the chamber Against it. They all said denny was the greatest thing in the world. You know, he did a wonderful job And obviously we'd you know hire him if we could we'd hire somebody like him We're going to have a professional doing in charge of it. So we're not going to be sticking pallet with another 18 job duties. Okay, so that's one thing we want to clear up the other thing and this could be a record I think it might be the first time I ever agreed with carter Absolutely the money's coming in, you know, this isn't adding another layer of bureaucracy that we can't afford And it shouldn't affect the mayor's, you know pie charts because yep, we're putting people in office But here's the money similarly, you know down the road. We're looking at a Municipal court same thing, you know, if the money's there, it's give or take a little bit So that argument shouldn't wash with anybody I was Approached by the chamber and I guess I'm glad to see that they're willing to to work with us, you know, pallet in her Presentation to the finance committee She clearly had a marketing plan. She clearly had a budget You know, I mean, you're not going to spend three weeks fine-tuning it for presentation that might go nowhere But I thought, you know, you looked at her presentation. She had a PowerPoint presentation. It was professional I certainly knew what she was talking about. So I think I agree with the chamber, you know, there's there's ideas pallet mentioned it They were willing to work with them on certain issues Even if we take it in house, maybe we'll give them a certain amount of money and say here We'll pay for this portion of the visitor's guide There's options there and it's not like saying we're going to do it in house and you guys are done And we're never going to talk to you again. We're still going to work with them That's the intent if pallet gets it The other one there's two more and I'll try to be brief The contract negotiations, you know, I understand and that's the part that I struggle with is did we notify them? Yeah, you kind of feel like a you know, the bad kid just punishing your kid right away You didn't tell them But on the other hand, you know, I think that putting those things in the contract Why would we put that in the contract? That was notification that yeah, it's kind of a big deal. We want to put it in there make sure it gets done None of those things that we talked about or many of them that weren't followed through on We're in the contract 10 15 20 years ago. Those were added. Now. Why were they added? I think they were at it because they weren't getting done in the city wanted to put emphasis on making sure they got them So I do you know, I do think we did give the notification whether our response is irrational tonight I don't know that's up to anybody to guess in my last Misconception and probably the one that bothers me the most is that I hear people say the city has nothing To offer we you know, we shouldn't we want to push ourselves We've got to understand I do understand tourism and I understand that certainly you're going to get people Into the golf courses into the racetracks and we will get the overflow. I understand that But I also think we have a lot To be promoting here. My son is entering UW-Milwaukee and I went there last week for an orientation And they give you the Milwaukee visitors guide First thing I noticed what it says the city of Milwaukee And the visit milwaukee.org Two pages of ads no big deal It's got a table of contents Welcome from the Head of the convention visit drill a welcome from three mayors Tom Baird from Milwaukee terry estes from the walatosa and jay hens from glendale So obvious there's some buy-in there But what really shocked me was the first article they have the great lake And I'll read you just the beginning of it. It says Milwaukee's most recognized attraction. It's yours to enjoy It needs no introduction. No added description or proper name In Milwaukee, the lake is a star on par with shair madonna or the donald Kind of presence that turns heads draws fans and makes people swoon I submit to you. These are tourism professionals telling you we've got that same lake in our backyard. Thank you Thank you all and stefan So which please call row Okay, just a As per alderman serda's request an explanation the first document you'll be voting on is 9-64. It's an rc by finance And finance recommends that the shabuagin county chamber of commerce be notified that the contract for 2006 Will not be renewed and this will be brought in-house. So an eye vote would be to bring this in-house Is that pretty clear? Okay, eberg Serda Davis graph kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Sigali Excuse me. No. Thank you. Stefan Susha Van Akron Vanderwheel Bauman Deberg the vote is eight to eight. It's a tie Chair votes aye The next vote would be on document number 10-61 And that is an rc by finance establishing a tourism advisory committee And filing that resolution an eye vote would be to file that resolution Is everybody clear on that? Serda Davis graph kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Radke Sigali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vanderwheel Bauman Deberg eberg The vote is nine to seven Motion carries Consent agenda all McGrath Thank you your honor. For items 10-1 through 10-33 I would move that all ROs be accepted and placed on file All RCs be accepted and adopted and we pass all the resolutions There's motions are second Second Under discussion all of them Susha Thank you, mr. Mayor. I would like to move that Number 10-7 and 10-12 have a separate vote Combined separate vote to be referred 10 I'm sorry 10 there's seven and seven and 10 dash well well All the ones Stefan Yeah, just as a point of information often we tell people I heard it tonight that when we file something, you know, it's throwing in the garbage I don't want a separate vote, but I just wanted to point out on 10-3 There's a bunch of documents from the Board of Parks and Forestry most of them talking about the Dog parks dog walks and it's one I sure the people were we're just filing on this routine I've been keeping up with the committee. They are still looking into it It's not like they're throwing away those ideas. So I don't want them to get the wrong idea It is still something that they're working through and developing a plan Thank you. Okay. Thank you Alderman Eber Thank you, and I would like to also pull 10-3 and have a division of the question Take an order We're gonna First of all before we go any further here. We're gonna take a separate vote on 10-27 10-7 and 10-12 10-7 and 10-12 Okay Yes, hold Okay, very excuse. Thank you Or you she just wants to refer it Do you want to what refer it to the mayor's office? Both 10-7 and 10-12. Yes Okay, there's a motion to refer 10-7 and 10-12 To the mayor's office. Is there a second? There's a second any discussion Alderman van der wheel Thank you, honor. I don't have a problem. So into the mayor's office when we filed it in committee. It was an understanding that That the department has had the information and that alderman kittleson and alderman graff Had the questions and and had the people that asked those questions So it was under the understanding that they were going to communicate that so we weren't just throwing it away But I don't have a problem sending to the mayor's office and responses Yeah Thank you Alderman Ebert, did you want to continue sir? No, we got you off. Alderman Stefan. You're not on anymore. Okay. Alderman Segali Thank you, your honor Are you then going to be answering these questions and then putting them out on the website or in the paper or something that you know That people could see that they are being answered. They're written further the mayor's office I take it them. I'm being asked To respond to them and I'll submit those questions and answers back to the probably the committee of the whole where it should be Okay, thank you Okay You want to pull 10 3 forward? We haven't taken a vote on that Oh Holes in favor of the motion to refer 10 7 and 10 12 back to the mayor's office. Please state. Aye Any opposed Motion carries. Okay. Now. We're gonna vote Division the question which one was it? Alderman Ebert. Yes. Thank you, your honor. I'd like to pull from that resolution number four Which is the resolution establishing a study of pet friendly areas I believe that was included by mistake the commission did not vote on that particular topic So that is still under consideration if you would by the parks commission also was a matter of explanation The commission did recommend that the council Will be recommended to the council not to allow dogs in city parks But they are however looking very actively at having dog runs in non park city property And I bring that up because any interested dog owner who would be willing to work to improve these areas If you were to contact paul mayer I think he's putting together a group of folk that will be looking at areas and trying to improve that and paul's number is 459 3440 That's a commercial commercial time. Thank you. Alderman Berg. Alderman van der wheel Thank you, honor If I heard right, I believe Alderman Berg said 10 4 when I believe he meant 10 3 Just for the it it would be it would be document 10 dash 3 but number 4 on there Oh, okay, and that's I apologize. Please explain the votes we can take What we'd be doing is just referring I'm assuming back to the board of particle forestry is number 4 And the rest of the document can be accepted and filed as is Understand it all is in favor. Please state. Aye. Any opposed motion carries I will we'll vote on their Remaining consent agenda items from 10 1 to 10 33. There was a motion in the second Take colo. Yep Okay, davis Graph is excused graph is excused Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemay or Racky Sigali Stefan Susha Excuse me. Ben Akron van der wheel. Hi bowman D Berg Eberg and serda 15 eyes motion carries the port of officers 10 34 Alderman eberg Just a motion to accept and file. Oh, yes, uh move to accept and file. Thank you second second Under discussion Give a roll call. Uh, no Not all those in favor. Please state. Aye. Any opposed Oh One abstention Alderman Susha. Yep motion carries 10 35 to 10 46 to be referred Please note that 10 41 will go to public protection and safety not public works resolutions introduced 10 47 Alderman bowman I thank you, your honor. I'd like to move for suspension of the rules, please There's a motion in the second to the spin All those in favor Please proceed Your honor, I'd also then like to make An amendment to this particular resolution Another where as as far as that goes How to put the document on the floor first and then I apologize then make the motion I would move that to resolution be put upon as passage There's a motion put the resolution upon as passage. Is there a second second? Okay Now then your honor, I wish to make an amendment to the motion another Be it further resolved That the city hereby accepts the ecology center at elwood h main environmental park As a gift from such trust That'll be the final be it further resolved Is there a second to that amendment Second Any further discussion Turn clean. Thank you, your honor just for clarification. I Suggested that be added to Alderman bowman That language is basically it's in the heading to accept the The gift from The trust but it's not in the resolves So I think really, you know in the heading doesn't have any legal Standing or anything so it should be in the text of the resolution That's what all the involvement's for a amendment would do Thank you. Turn the clean roll call on the amendment Davis graph i'm sorry. He's gone kittleson Manny meyer montemayor ratki sagali stefan Susha van akron van der wheel bowman D berg e berg and serda 15 i's amendment passes and I will take a vote on the motion as amended kittleson Oh, I'm sorry. This is the motion as amended The final motion. Yeah, is it okay? Manny meyer montemayor ratki sagali stefan Susha van akron van der wheel bowman D berg e berg serda Davis 15 i's Motion passes 1048 Alderman graff is excused Alderman stefan Your honor, could I take 1049 and 1050 with it also? Please do. Thank you. I would move that all the resolutions you put upon their passage There's a motion a second to put resolutions 1048 1049 upon their passage under discussion I would ask that we open the floor to carol worth from rbc dan rousher give us the abbreviated version of the Bond sales that happened today. There's a motion open up the floor to carol. There a second All those in favor state. Aye any opposed Motion carries please Good evening I have prepared two handouts for you tonight that address one of them Specifically 1048 and the other handout is for the 1049 and 1050 items I'll begin with the the handout for the 1048. It says on the front cover Sale results for the shabuagan water utility 4.9 million revenue bonds On august 1st the Common council took action on resolutions That was setting a sale of these revenue bonds On today's date and so today i'm here to report to you the results of those sales And also i'll give you a little background on how we compared to our expectations when I was here the last time On page one is really a summary of everything that's taking place with regard to this financing We're serving as your financial advisor and in doing so what we've done is Prepared a document called an official statement. It's a very large document. You just received the copy of tonight. It looks like a phone book This is a prospectus on the city It describes the bonds to the investors and also to the underwriters It is used to distribute nationwide to solicit the bids that we receive today And the document was prepared for all three financings and that's why you have three resolutions There's going to be three financings And the document is also used and submitted to the rating agencies And with the water utility we uh have a moody's rating outstanding So we had conversations with moody's And i am pleased to report that moody's has reconfirmed our a1 credit rating for the water utility The funds are being used for what i have described around page one I've i've got the dollar amounts next to the purposes We have water utility projects and that includes two new reservoir projects Includes some engineering expenses for a potential intake project It is also some dollars are being used to refinance 1989 bonds that are outstanding at a 7.4 interest rate We have the ability to call in those bonds and stop that interest as of october 15th of this year We also fund a reserve account with revenue bonds because revenue bonds are not put on the tax slavery They are paid from the revenues of the water system. So you must have a reserve account That's equal to about one year's debt service on revenue bonds just to be able to market them and also to achieve the a1 rating And we also have issuance expenses. So I have all of those items and players identified for you The sale took place this morning at 10 o'clock. We received three bids And I have what is attached to this handout identified as exhibits And your resolution that you had in your packet today Does not include those exhibits filled out So when you adopt that resolution tonight along with these exhibits that makes an entire document And that will then be accepting these results. So for the first exhibit We referred to as exhibit b. It's the bid tabulation If you want to take a look at that that's on the next page number two at the bottom and you'll see we received three bids The winning bidder being ubs financial out of chicago And the true interest rate on this financing. It's uh approximately 20 years is a 4.001 percent That's a quarter of a percent better than what we were anticipating a couple weeks ago And um that equates to um About a hundred and uh 24 000 of less interest than what we were projecting You can see there that we had a bid from um robert barrett at a 4 11 and crews and associates which is out of um arkansas For a 4 11 The next exhibit is page 3 Is called exhibit c it is the bid form. This is how the underwriters place their bids and you will see on that bid form That there is uh at the top the paragraph that starts with for all or none That they bid a premium those are dollars that they give you upfront And then they also bid their interest rate. So you can see how the interest rates are listed At the bottom in the right on the far left hand corner This is not a part of this bid is the calculation So if you take those interest rates Subtract the premium because that premium dollar is coming to you upfront That produces the calculation at the bottom of net interest cost and true interest rate And so those are the numbers that are used on the bid tabulation So that's how you compare them Now if we take those interest rates that are on this bid form and put them into the repayment schedule That's the next exhibit exhibit d And you can see there that we have the principal amounts at those interest rates Produces the interest column And then it produces the far right hand column of annual D slash its debt service debt service means principal and interest added together The bottom if you take the rate column and go all the way to the bottom You'll see the word average coupon coupon means interest rate and on this page The average coupon is 4.017 Because it is not subtracting that premium that they bid on their bid form of 1,900 and some dollars So in order to demonstrate that to you we have the next page Which is the pricing schedule and the pricing schedule is interesting because it also shows you the yields And the prices that are sold to the investors If you look at the that the bottom kind of the block of words that starts with net effective Okay, the net effective rate is a 401 2 The true interest rate which takes into consideration the premium dollars of the 1,952 Then produces the true interest rate of the 4.001 Percent so that kind of helps you tie this together in terms of where those numbers are coming from and the results Now that would complete the exhibits to your resolution The page after that is informational To let you know that with this financing and these results the water utility has 2004 safe drinking water loans outstanding Which is done through the state of wisconsin's program And it has this 4.9 million dollar issue Before we did this financing the utility had 1989 bonds outstanding at that 7.4 percent which we talked about And so that's why the schedule is listed as after refunding In addition to this and now i'm kind of skipping back to my first page The very bottom paragraph of my first page Is because on august 1 you also adopted a resolution that there there really wasn't a follow-up But i wanted to follow that through and let you know that On august 1 there was a resolution you adopted establishing an escrow for the 1990 revenue bonds Those revenue bonds are outstanding at about 7.2 and 7.3 percent But we couldn't call them this year. We couldn't stop the interest until next year So to try and defese those bonds And to defese the covenants from the 89 and 90 bonds so we're starting with a fresh resolution and fresh covenants We provided for those bonds by creating an escrow That means we bought treasuries Special securities from the u.s treasury that's priced by the treasury daily So today's the day that we bought the treasuries and the treasuries Cost i have listed there is 582 9 11 0.75 This is coming from utility funds on hand A significant portion of that is utility funds on hand that can only be used or restricted purpose for debt service Part of the reserve fund that was created for those bonds So um and then um the rest of it is utility funds That that are being contributed to the purchase price of these securities Once those securities are paid for which will happen on september 1st We now have an escrow That escrow will be held by jp morgan as escrow agent The 90 bonds are totally defused And the um there will be a auditor verification report by magladry and polin as to yield and sufficiency And that assures the city and the utility that that escrow indeed will cover those payments to the bond holders So that you don't hear later on that there wasn't enough money or that someone's going to come back to you looking for payment So that will um also be supplied to the city and the utility By creating this escrow and stopping that interest payment The utility is saving about 50 000 dollars By refinancing the 1989 bonds with the part of the money from this 4.9 million The utility is saving 45 970 So you can see with this action as a whole this we call this the financial plan for the water utility That we are saving um 95 970 dollars in this in this financing process So that is the explanation of why you have page seven on this report It's an escrow fund cash flow And that is speaking to that last paragraph And that escrow fund has columns of principal rate and interest That is speaking to the treasuries that we bought that's the principal amount the interest rate from the from the federal government And the interest that those treasuries spin off And the column that says disbursement that's the 1990 revenue bonds So the cost of that investment is um again in the middle of the page total cost of investments and the yield on those Is listed as 3.86 percent Now can I answer any questions? Are there any questions? Good job. Thank you. Okay. Would you like me now to cover the next resolution? Please. Okay very good um The other handout addresses both the um item uh 10 49 and 10 50 One of them they are both General obligation refunding bonds They are divided into two because one 3.5 million 95 issue Is refinancing debt? That was done all for tiff 3. So that's why we created an issue just for tiff 3 The other financing Is refinancing existing debt that was primarily done for city capital improvement plan projects and a very small portion for tiff 10 So that's the reason why we have two separate issues Again in my summary on page one. I have it in a similar format And that's why we use that same document when we distributed them nationwide. We have different interests and different bidders One for revenue bonds one for general obligation bonds Also our rating we have a very different rating process for them We have two ratings. We have a moody's investors. Excuse me investor service rating and a standard in poor's rating Moody's has reconfirmed the city's general obligation rating as double a3 Standard and poor's has reconfirmed the general obligation rating as double a minus And these are very comparable ratings moody's uses as you can see by my memo a large a small a And numbers like one two and three next to them Standard and poor's always uses two capital a's And a minus or a plus or no no Number or I should say no symbol next to it So for a moody's double a3 is an exact comparable to a standard and poor's double a minus Okay I show you on page one the second paragraph that the series a bonds here is refinancing 91 bonds that are outstanding at a 6.08 percent and 93 bonds outstanding at a 5.66 percent And we also are with series b. We're refinancing 95 bonds out at a 528 and 98 notes at a 420 Um, I have these again presented as far as the exhibits to the resolutions that you currently have because that is what is missing to make the resolution complete So council approval of this resolution as well as the prior resolution or actually all three I should say Locks in the interest rates that you are seeing tonight The city and utility will receive the money on september 1 But you are not at risk in terms of market movement you lock in and award the bonds to the appropriate winners tonight In when the city and utility receive their money Then they can invest it until they need it for either paying off the existing debt or for their utility projects So I've shown you on page one also the expenses of issuance associated with both of these financings And I will then walk you through the page two, which is the sale results for our general obligation Issue first of all, um, I want to show you that we have savings. We're doing this strictly for savings So the series a bonds we have savings of 295,254 And you can see how that savings occurs. It's comparing the 3,595 issue to the two outstanding 91 and 93 bonds The bottom part of page two shows you the series b Which is taking the new 3,140 Actual debt service and comparing that to the 95 and 98 notes the actual savings on that issue is 91,752 The winning bidder on our series a we had 10 bids on that financing And the winning bidder was griffin cubic Stevens and thompson out of chicago at a true interest rate of 3.219 And with the series b we had eight bids and that winning bidder was ubs financial at a 3.11209 And I will walk through the exhibits with you. We have them in the same order In this case, they're called exhibits a b and c They are separated by a blue divider to indicate which resolution they belong to So if we want to turn to page three that is exhibit a for the 3,595 issue You will see there the list of the 10 bidders And that we have a true interest rate Of 3.219 as our winning bid then ranges all the way to the 342 You also get to see, you know, where the bids came from We have various states that we took bids from today Exhibit b is the bid form from griffin cubic again Notice in the first paragraph they're paying a premium of 16,542 to the city And then again their interest rates the bottom block Not a part of the bid is the calculation that takes you to 3.219 We take those interest rates put them into page five That is now the repayment schedule for the 3,595 The bottom if you look at the rate column look to the bottom It says average coupon again coupon means interest rate and that shows you a 3.37 Does not include the premium of 16,500 coming back to the city That is shown on page six You will see under the Schedule the words net effective a 323 and true interest of 321 9 6 So that is the results then for the resolution on the 3.5 million Then we have a divider for the next resolution with again those same exhibits you have This is your list of bidders for that issue. We have eight bids The winning bid being 3.11 209 From UBS financial, which is the same firm that won the bid on the revenue bonds The next page eight is the bid form and you will see there they are paying a premium of $9,101 to the city At those interest rates and the calculation is at the bottom Page nine takes those interest rates and inserts them into the repayment schedule The average rate of that on that page is 3.26 Does not include the premium page 10 Is a schedule showing you the effect of the premium for the true interest rate of the 3.11 Thank you, carol. Yes, any questions Oliver stefan I'm not a question I would just state that the board of water commissioners met with the finance committee before the meeting We did approve All these bids Thank you Oliver and susha Thank you, mr. Mayor I know that you had mentioned that our rating right now is a double a minus and after listening to the mayor's presentation about how close we are to the maximum of our Borrowing capacity If the city were to borrow more than the borrowing capacity and we were jeopardy were to jeopardize our double a minus rating I don't know if we fall into the double b plus category after that What impact would that have on the interest rate in future borrowing for the city if our Our rating drops would the interest rate then go up for future borrowing? Well, first of all, it just says a general statement A credit rating is what determines your interest rate So always the better your credit rating the better your interest rate I mean that's that's the way that's the reason why you always want to have a good credit rating Another general statement is that there are several things that impact your city's credit rating And believe me you can ask rating agencies all day long. What if I do this? Then what happens to her or what are what will happen to our credit rating and you will never get a straight answer Okay, because it is not just one factor Many times you have to look at Um You look at wealth levels. You look at the ability to pay the ability to tax you look at what's going on in your community as a whole the type of development administration fund balance policies The economics and demographics of your area the financials of the city and rating agencies like historical trend They don't make decisions based on one-year actions They they make their decisions on historical trends So so that would be somewhat unfair for me to give you that type of a of a of a reaction Because it would incorporate a lot of of factors and They're not going to tell you that they're going to upgrade you or downgrade you for for one particular thing Because it really has a lot Of um of analysis to get to their credit report Okay, but but that's the reason why you know We work together and that we always you know bounce things off of credit credit rating credit agencies If um and not just how much debt you're issuing but other policies and considerations that um Maybe uh proposed Because they look at more than just the one factor Thank you all of them want to my oh Thank you, your honor. I simply wanted to thank carol worth for explaining it so well Very clearly. I understand it. I thank you Okay Thank you very much carol appreciate that. Okay. Thank you. We will call the rule We have before us a resolution to a motion to put resolution 10 48 10 49 upon their passage And 10 50 and what all three all three 10 10 50, okay Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratki Segali Stefan Sushia Van Akron Vander wheel Bowman Dberg Eberg Serda Davis And kittleson 15 eyes Motion carries 10 51 Allerman montemayor To No, they're separate There's a motion to put 10 51 upon its passage. Is there a second second under discussion All those in favor, please state. Aye Any opposed motion carries 10 52 Alderman berg Eber It's thank you, and I move that the uh resolution be put upon its past ancient There's a motion. Is there a second? In the second under discussion Allerman montemayor Oh, no, that's the life from before. Thank you. Alderman Segali I guess my question is I didn't realize we've gone into Establishing parks In certain areas I didn't I don't remember this being said When this was being discussed so Sure Mr. Holden or for that Okay, and it um, thank you mayor and command council It was referred to in the In the presentation from the standpoint that it's four wooded Acres and that it be maintained for you know either park and or green space purposes And I think the intention was more of if it was used as park purposes some type of passive recreation And not a you know, I think the intent was more to protect that four acres of trees that are in that area Thank you Okay, I'm sorry. Are you going We can take the boat that's fine take the boat. Sure. Okay. We will take the roll call on 10 52 montemayor Radke Segali Stefan Susha Van Akron Vander wheel Bowman Thank you Dberg Eberg Serta Davis Kittleson Manny and Meyer 15 eyes motion carries 10 53 will lie over Excuse me. I'm sorry. Could we take one minute to sign the documents for you? Could you just excuse us for one minute? Thank you. Thank you Thank you, Mr. Gephardt Okay, 10 53 as I said will lie over 10 54 and 10 55 to be referred 10 56 to be referred report of committees 10 57 Alderman was it Manny? Thank you, honor I move we accept and adopt the report of committee by law and licensing Recommended denying beverage operators license number 54 19 Based on failure to cooperate with the committee and failure to reveal all violations on the application There's a motion in the second under discussion Alderman many thank you, honor When to ask if Richard shulak is here is Richard shulak here Your honor. He is not here. Thank you. Alderman many We will take a roll call Yes, ratki sagali stefan Susha van akron van der wheel Balmond de berg e berg Serda davis Kittleson Manny Meyer and montemayor 15 eyes motion carries 10 58 Alderman Manny Thank you, your honor by law and licensing a move we accept to adopt report of the committee Recommending filing the documents submitting communication from blue harbor Approving they're holding the october fest event in september and granting permission to use city property So that people may freely walk around the area to the east of the building with alcoholic beverages The motion is second Second under discussion Not please call the roll so sagali stefan Susha Van akron van der wheel Common de berg e berg serda davis Kittleson Manny Meyer montemayor and ratki 15 eyes motion carries 10 59 to be referred 10 60 by law and licensing Alderman many thank you, your honor On behalf of law and licensing a move that we accept and adopt the report of the committee revoking the alcohol license number 1972 for three gems incorporated Based on the facts and findings from the quasi digital hearing held on august 9th There's a motion in the second under discussion Under discussion your honor is christopher dimoff here Is christopher dimoff here Your honor he is not here. He accepts the decisions of the committee And he plans to sell the business okay Any more discussion Not we'll call the roll stefan Susha Van akron van der wheel Bowman de berg e berg serda davis Kittleson Manny Meyer montemayor ratki and sagali 15 eyes Motion carries 10 62 will lie over 10 63 and 10 64 to be referred Matters laid over 948 resolution number 870506 by older person burg Authorized in the city of shabuagan to apply for copyright and trademark of its logo and tagline to ensure many future years of exclusive Use Alderman e berg. Yes. Thank you, and I move that the resolution be put its passage There's a motion is there a second second under discussion. Yes under discussion Now this is an issue that surfaced from time to time When organizations would come to us and ask for permission To use the city logo, which is behind us I think in the past it's typically been denied because it it implied an endorsement of whatever the activity was Currently, there's no restriction on use of that particular Logo or indicia for example, I could buy a tavern tomorrow Call it shabuagan spirits on the lake and point to every city truck is advertising my business This would offer the city a remedy in terms of protection of that particular Logo and also still allow permitted use and perhaps even drive a little revenue into our coffers My understanding from attorney mclean is that this is not an overnight process is that it involves an application To the federal patent office and or the copyright office and therefore will likely take several Months to complete and get permission Thank you. Alderman berg Alderman sushia Thank you, mr. Mayor It's my understanding that to have a registered trademark for the shabuagan logo is going to run approximately six to seven thousand dollars And I think it's too much and i'm curious if you could tell me where the money is coming from Perhaps I could support this but until I find out where we're going to get the six to seven thousand dollars from I don't think I can support this at that time at this time. Thank you Alderman Benner wheel Thank you, honor I agree with alderman sushia. My comments are going to be the same as how much was it going to cost And you had mentioned Alderman berg you had mentioned that it was going to bring in revenue And I was wondering how that was going to bring in revenue also Alderman berg I think in terms of the revenue picture if it's permitted use I doubt the city is going to have its own designer clothing But it could allow for example a small fee every time the logo was used as part of If you would a promotion of shabuagan or if somebody wished to develop a product that would have The logo on it would be reasonable to charge a permission fee for something like that And again, I can't speak to the cost perhaps attorney mclean might be able to Better address what a copyright would would run. I'm unfamiliar with that part of it Thank you. Thank you your honor. And now it doesn't the city have t-shirts made up with um Spirit on the lake shabuagan spirit on the lake where is Isn't wasn't that protected? I guess i'm not understanding why All of a sudden we were deciding to do it since all in the past that I didn't I didn't think it was being abused That's what my question is the city of shabuagan spirit on the lake Is on everything the city does it's on city trucks. It's here. It's on our letterhead It's on everything the city has any affiliation association with And I believe all what alderman burg is trying to do and what I would ultimately support $6,000 is really not a lot of money to complain about at this point at least in my mind What's being done here in my mind protects the city from any future unauthorized use of our logo and our tagline By anyone it doesn't matter who it is and alderman burg is right anybody anybody could take that tagline Take it anywhere in the world and use it and make look like they're representing us There's nothing we can do about it So all it is is a protection against the city now the alderman you may want to vote it down That's fine. Just be a prize That you've been told that if anybody uses that tagline and that logo on on authorize We're gonna have to live with that decision alderman Ratke Thank you your honor $6,000 to $7,000 the mere pit is compared to what it would cost us to go and redo all the squad cars the trucks the city letterhead All the city buildings all the signages in the parks the marina what have you This is a it's a it's a no no brainer as far as I'm concerned We need to protect our image here and our trademark and logo and Just the cost of trying to come up with something new is going to cost us more than the six or seven thousand dollars And in changing everything out companies Trademark their names for a simple reason so nobody can use it and I think we should do the same Alderman davis Thank you your honor Just for information could a private citizen like me Copy right death and pay my six or seven thousand dollars and have that as my trademark or logo unless it's Unless someone else had That registered it prior to that And if I could your honor As far as the cost question I don't have a clue I don't know what it costs to trademark or copyright something There's going to be a cost to it. I think that should be recognized. I don't know how extensive it is. I've never Never done it before as far as uh You know why it wasn't done? originally when the logo was adopted back in I don't know when it was I think in the 80s or early 90s It was a conscious decision of the council at that time and With the recommendation of the director of City development that the The logo be open To wide use that anybody could use it and that the that would be positive for the city to get the logo out I'm not And I'm not going to take position in one way or the other whether it's better to to keep it unregistered untrademarked or to To try to protect the logo I just just want to say that that was a conscious council decision at that time And things change may have a different perception today and that's perfectly understandable I would say that While You know to a certain extent the city is in the business of government We're a little bit different than a private corporation as far as protecting our Product names and things like that from competition. We don't Really compete with anybody. I mean we're here. We're the city of shabuigan and You know, maybe some other city somewhere else wants to call themselves spirit on the lake and you could say that that's competition And we could preclude them from doing that if we registered The logo and so forth, but it's uh You know it was a conscious decision then and certainly a different council can have a different perspective and Decide that they want to take a different course and that's perfectly Uh, perfectly a reasonable thing to do I think all them and sushi has a good point that there is a cost to doing it And you need to be aware that there is a cost and unfortunately. I can't tell you what that cost is Under discussion your honor This is relative to establishing a youth district classification on annex property Anyone anytime anywhere The danger is there It's up to this council if you want to do it or not you've been, uh, apprised All in many your next sir. Thank you. I'm sorry. No, you're next after him Uh, two comments. Number one, uh, responding to Steve McLean's comments I believe we could approve use of the logo And have a process for doing so so that it could be widely used for appropriate events Secondarily, I believe we have a legal fund. I want to ask rich gebbhart What dollars remain in that fund unspent for this year For appropriate legal cost this might fall into that category rich, please address that Mr. Kepphardt if you're able to Uh, unfortunately, I'm not connected to the computer of here So I really don't have that that exact knowledge of what balances are are available at this point But certainly given an opportunity I can I'll try to research that as quickly as possible I don't know if City attorney remembers anything on his budget that it is for legal fees of any balances for the currently have on there Thank you, Mr. Kepphardt Alderman Of an akron Steve I got a question for you What if somebody is using that logo now and we haven't got it in yet? Can he use it after we we get it in? Uh, it's a good question Alderman van Akron I don't honestly know I guess my off the cuff opinion would be They could continue to use it I think they were using it prior to being protected But I can't answer that with certainty. I think that's a good case Alderman Dberg Thank you your honor Well, we just saw the pie chart that you had States going to give us this money. We got this money. We're not going to get any more Now all of a sudden six seven thousand dollars is a pittance I don't think six seven thousand dollars is a pittance. I am not going to support this Alderman van der wheel Thank you, honor I guess to me there's too many questions Um, I'd like to make a motion to send this to law licensing So that we can maybe get a handle on how much revenue we'll create And if we can make up to six or seven thousand Or how much you know because prices go up. Maybe it's 13,000 now. I'm not sure how accurate your numbers were But uh, I'm making motion to send it to law and license. So we have a motion we have a motion to the floor right now If that doesn't pass you can move to refer it Alderman steffen You got president Okay, motion to refer to law and licensing. Was there a second? Second any discussion with that All those in favor state aye Any opposed chair votes aye motion carries Okay Resolution number 955 Uh resolution number 880506 by alderman steffen calling on the congress of the united states to reject plans to privatize Social security by cutting social security guaranteed benefits and diverting money out of the social security and to the private investment accounts Alderman steffen Thank you your honor. I think it's all this is just an advisory Resolution I would move to put it on its passage There's a motion a second put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Alderman sushia Thank you, mr. Mayor um As an elder person, I don't feel comfortable telling congress what to do with social security I don't have enough information in regards to what type of privatization they're looking at I haven't researched this because as an alderman I don't feel that it's my role to advise congress on what to do here So I am unable to support this event this time. Thank you Further discussion alderman eberg Along with alderman sushia. I think I will also Ask for a roll call vote and and do abstain I Started to look at this and when you google social security reform you get 15,800,000 hits This is perhaps one of those proposals that honestly I didn't have time in the 15 minutes before council to look at the 15 million so for that purpose. I'd like to abstain Okay, so please call a roll Stefan Sushia Van Ekron Vander wheel Bowman Dberg eberg Surda Davis Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke and Sigali 12 eyes two nose and one extension motion carries Resolution number 890506 Of the amended agenda By alderman graph stefan and montemayor authorizing the transfer of appropriations in the 205 budget alderman stefan Thank you your honor. I would move that the resolution we put upon its passage Could I also take 957 with that? Yes, sir I would so move there's a motion to put resolutions 956 and 957 upon their passage under discussion In their second under discussion Not please call a roll Sushia Van Ekron Vander wheel Bowman Dberg eberg Surda Davis Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Sigali and stefan 15 eyes Motion carries 9 79 resolution number 910506 by alderman Meyer and montemayor authorizing a referendum election to be held on the next april 206 election on the question of whether or not to issue general obligation bonds in the amount not to exceed eight million dollars For the public purpose of paying for the cost of a new police station Alderman Meyer I move that the resolution be put upon his passage There's a motion in second the resolution be put upon his passage under discussion Alderman Meyer I've received a lot of phone calls emails from people that feel that 17 million is Way too much money to be spending on a new police station And I feel eight million is sufficient amount Alderman Montemayor Thank you your honor I know I voted for the 17 million dollar cap on the bonding But this has to do with the community wanting a referendum and they didn't have enough signatures Because we know they ran out of time, but I talked to one of the canvassers And she said to me that of the 100 people she talked to and door she knocked on 98 Wanted to sign this so I thought wow that's a big percentage of the people she talked to and these were cold calls That she just knocked on doors. So that made me want to Let the community put their input into this. Thank you Alderman D. Berg Thank you your honor first of all that 17 million is Like alderman graffin and explained they just didn't pick it out. They was for purpose But first of all, we got to have a location For the police department Once we have a site that's when we sit down with the designers And you see what you actually need And I'll bet you a dollar a donut It doesn't go near 14 million dollars or maybe 13 million dollars. I doubt it very much Thank you. Alderman Berg sir Thank you your honor I think as older persons we owe the public also an explanation of what how we arrive at those numbers We are not professional architects and unless I have Zimmerman telling me here tonight that this eight million dollars is feasible And how that's going to relate to our city's needs and policing unit. I can't support this Alderman van der wheel Thank you, your honor I just wanted to state that I didn't receive any phone calls regarding the referendum And a few people that called me asking about other things. They said what referendum And I just think it's premature because we don't have a site. We don't know if we're going to build a police station and So I just think it's premature Alderman sushi Thank you, mr. Mayor I think that some of us have it a little backwards We're looking to the architect to tell us how much money he needs to build This grandiose police station when I look at it from the other view where it's our job is older people to set the limit and hold The architect and the builders to a certain level that we feel we can afford I mean if you read the last whereas it says the principal and interest payment for the new police station $17 million debt issuance is estimated to increase the tax livy for debt service by over a million dollars by 2008 I mean even if you're talking about 14 million dollars We've seen the numbers here tonight. We cannot afford this type of debt So I think that we tell them that instead of using solid gold bricks to build this police station They have to use silver plated bricks and that will bring down the cost dramatically It's our job to set the limits not to give them the right to write their own check And let them set the the limits and they will function appropriately within the parameters that we set for them So I will support this eight million dollars because I do think that that is our job. Thank you Alderman retkin Thank you your honor. I too will support the eight million dollar referendum issue Of course After touring at janesville wisconsin police department just last week and taking a look at what the zimmerman design group built for these people in janesville For 4.67 million. Although there are some major differences in what we're looking at here and what they're looking at there I am of the belief we can get this done for well under eight million dollars In a timely fashion the only difference we have here in a point. I want to make what this is Um, the city of shaboy is not doing what janesville had done. You're right. We don't have a site yet But janesville looked ahead over 15 years, which we didn't do and that's where our major hang up is right now And that's where price is going up up and up. They work. There's over 15 year periods. So I'll support. Thank you Alderman mani Thank you your honor In my thinking, uh, I don't see any way fiscally that we're going to build a 17 million dollar police station Uh, if we chose to do that, we'd be basically Firing policemen and firemen and public works folks. We'd have a building without staff The only viable approach. I think that's feasible is to do a two-stage build And have zimmerman directed to that end. We can debate which site for another time So my perspective on this is to vote the, uh, ordinance down Not have a referendum, but I'll be Encouraging a decision that we spend eight million dollars much prior to april This will not even be a decision in my mind at that point We will as a council have voted eight million and that's it Alderman de bergs your second time This is true. Oh, okay. I'll make that a good one Alderman shusha is absolutely right once we get that site made we dictate to the architect what we need all our person Ratte says Jamesville has one for 4.5 million It has no communication center system It's got two holding cells. That's all they got It's only good for 15 years Then they're gonna start adding on So what have what is uh, jamesville got they got an office building that's being occupied by police officers Alderman steffen Thank you your honor I too will support eight million dollars spending on a police station But what I won't support is waiting for a referendum, you know, I think Part of what alderman berg said is white right part of what all the person shusha said is right, you know, we can't dictate Because we don't know we haven't been told okay eight million. What do we get for our eight million? I can't stand here today. Of course. I'd rather have spend eight to 17 But if it says if he says the only way I can spend eight million is if it doesn't do the communication systems Well, then we've got to turn to the police and fire and say well, what does that mean? Where do we put that does the county do that for us? Are they going to give us money? What's the charge there? We haven't gotten the documentation and we wouldn't want the documentation yet because if we had it for one site We'd have to have it for five sites And we just be paying a whole lot more for architecture when we're not going to use it I think once we zero in on a site Then we can say like I the only thing I've heard so far When mr. Sabin ash was here he mentioned food service and I thought well I'm gonna have to look at this because we need food service there. I don't know how much room it costs I don't know what the cost is but the other details we haven't seen And I think that's what we've got to wait for I Totally have to tell people day in day. You know, yeah, this is what he said. He needs but you know, he builds them for a living You know, he builds them to his goals That may be ours. It may not be ours But I think we don't know what we're cutting until we see what's in there So I would agree that we need less of a police station But I can't support this because I don't want to wait till april to find out and even then what we do if it Passes we have eight million if it loses Then what we do another referendum I just you know, I don't see any sense in waiting Alderman eberg Thank you. I guess to follow up with what alderman steppen was talking about This it's uh august 15th. This will put a hold on any planning until april 15th April 15th is also a general election. Some of us likely will not be sitting here on april 15th Therefore, we'll have a new council which will probably want to take a fresh look Which likely will then put virtually any decision much into august of next year before we can actually sit down Even if you have eight million dollars to work with I think the eight million dollars may be a very realistic figure But to have a referendum cast at this time six months before the date. I that's what I can't support. Thank you Alderman cerdo Thank you, your honor And just for clarification I do take my job seriously and I realize that I do have to answer to my public And if I would got a phone call tomorrow asking why I capped this at eight million dollars I couldn't give an answer I need to know what that means in terms of square footage and our service And I think this is putting the cart before the horse and until I get those answers I can't support this I know it would make me look good that i'm holding down spending and throwing out these numbers But I got to have information to back up my vote Alderman Alderman want to my all Thank you, your honor. It's good to hear the alderman Everyone every alderman who's spoken to say it's not going to cost the 17 million I'm very glad to hear that that it's going to be cut a lot. Thank you Okay, please call the roll Okay I vote would be for a referendum. Is everybody clear on that? Okay Van Akron Vanderweel Baumann D. Berg E. Berg Serda Davis Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Radke Segali Ocean fails 968 general ordinance number 24 0506 by alderman van der wheel montemayor Ratke and Meyer relating to no parking anytime so as to add The north side of new jersey avenue from the west curb line of south 22nd street to a point of 125 feet west Alderman van der wheel Thank you, honor credit 9 69 with that also yes Which uh 9 69 as a general ordinance to uh Relate no parking anytime as to add the south side of washington avenue from the west curb line of south 12th place to a point 50 west and that would make a motion to put those general ordinance upon their passage There's a motion a second to put uh General ordinances 9 68 9 69 upon their passage under discussion Not call the roll Vanderweel Baumann D. Berg E. Berg Serta Davis Kittleson Manny Meyer Montemayor Ratke Segali Stefan Sushia And van Akron 15 eyes Motion carries 9 74 will be referred to committee of the whole Other matters authorized by law 9 10 65 will be referred to public works 10 66 will be referred to capital improvements commission 10 67 will be referred to public works Other matters That will be referred to capital improvements and public protection and safety States And that will be referred to capital improvements and public protection and safety And that will be referred to public works Excuse me This should also go to architectural review and historic preservation I didn't have that on you That will be referred to architectural review and historic preservation And public works And public works Thank you 10 71 is communication from Matt Driscoll of James Madison elementary school Requesting a safety study be conducted to determine whether city crossing guards are necessary before and after school for the safety of students As there have been several concerns regarding the crossing of two intersections through the school with georgia avenue south 22nd street and david avenue south 22nd street That will go to public protection and safety 10 72 is a communication from two lee of tcl fashions of the orient requesting a two hour parking limit along the west side of north 13th street between michigan and uran avenues during business hours And that will go to public protection and safety also There's a motion second to adjourn all those in favor state I stand adjourned