 at the school. School performance. She'll be here. So Mike, we're gonna get going. Okay. Leave the lawyer alone. Okay, so we are convened and the first order of business is an executive session and there is a proposed motion. So I'll move to find the premature public knowledge regarding civil litigation. The town is a party to and the labor relations agreement with employees would clearly place the town as a state for this advantage and further move that we enter into executive session discuss civil litigation. The town is party to and the labor relations agreement with employees and a possible real estate transaction under title one sections three one three a one B and E and title one sections three one three a two of the last statutes and invite town manager Eric Wells to join all three discussions town labor attorney Joe Farnham to join the discussion on the labor relations agreement with the employees and town attorney David Rue to join the civil litigation discussion. Is there a second? Any discussion on the motion? If I may add Terry to also invite for the labor relations agreement discussion Shirley Goodell Lackey and Fire Chief Aaron Collette I will add those two to the motion. Still second. Okay. And no discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those in favor say nay. The ayes have it. We are in. Just go back. Yeah, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do just a half for VCM. So folks, we're gonna something to do. We're gonna come in to the session. I don't know if that's the right word. We're gonna continue work. So I'm gonna gonna hit the gavel and everything. There we go. So we're back from executive session that did take considerably longer than I had any of us get expected. Anyway, we're back on back on the agenda. So the first thing on the agenda the minutes of January 9 2024. Move the approval of the Minnesota January 9 2024 with any necessary corrections. Is there a second? Second. No corrections. All those in favor of accepting the minutes say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. Next the minutes from February 6 2024. Is there a motion? Move the approval of the Minnesota February 6 2024 with any necessary corrections? Second. Page one. I didn't know if we just wanted to indicate that I attended remotely. Page three. Hearing no corrections. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. Next on the agenda is public comment. This is an opportunity for anybody either in the room or participating online to make any comment that you want. It can be something that's on the agenda. You don't have to wait necessarily for the agenda item to come up. Usually oftentimes it's better if you do but you don't have to. It could be about anything else. Is there anybody in the room that has public comment? I'm seeing nobody. Eric is there anybody online? Nope. Just staff. Okay. Next. Smoker trail realignment. Conservation planner Simon Miles. Take the lead. Well I can't be brief. So we have the smoker trail which connects Sunset Hill and Oak Hill Road. It's part of our cross found trail runs on private land through easements of the town halls. The land owner of the western section of the trail, Glen Card who's here if you've got any questions for him, farms the land. The trail currently runs through the wooded area on sort of the northern boundary of his parcel. He'd just like to move it out of that wooded area to the south so it runs along the edge of the hay field. Two main reasons really to sort of take out a lot of invasive trees that are in the land and open it up as it was in response to his sort of forest management plan requirements and certainly to create more pasture land or rather return it. It was previously past pasture land through his cattle. So we do have an easement on there, the terms of that easement to allow us to relocate the trail by mutual consent. Being to conservation commission twice and we did get a public comment. Ultimately the conservation commission did recommend realignment of the trail be agreed. Two reasons it sort of complies with the easement provides meaningful public access across the land to get from two of our important areas, Five Tree Hill and Mud Pond and it also helps the land owner farm his land which is another sort of factor to consider with the easement. Secondly it sort of shows town support for the continued agricultural piece of the land which is a town for the old and then lastly but no means least for the conservation commission. Let's give it a blow to the invasives which is a priority for them. So if it was agreed we'd like to take it forward to the land owner this year and that's it. Questions from the board? This might not even be relevant but I was just trying to figure out so eventually this trail is going to go between a hayfield and a cow pasture. Correct, yep. Just right down the middle of a field essentially. At the moment there's a sort of hayfield in the mountains with some sort of newly established scrub forests so that forest would sort of generally go away but there'd be a number of trees left to sort of shape the animals and things like that and so the trail would run along that pasture land between it and the hayfield. Other questions from the board? You Mr. Carr? Come on in. So there's a stone wall that runs between the pasture and the hayfield and there's another section that's already currently pasture but basically it's going from one side of the stone wall to the other side of the stone wall. So there's a basically going to be a space stone wall then about 20 to 25 feet and then a pasture fence. Pretty simple move. All right. There was a there's something in here about like an electric fence for to keep your cattle on the other side. I've hiked on those with my dogs sometimes they're a little problematic so but not that I'm going to say you can't do it it's just a red that it was like oh that's hard to do. It is it can be hard um the dogs tend to learn after a little bit. But it's all smart the dog is. Everybody get their dog on a leash right? Yeah absolutely that's Mike. Yeah yeah thanks. Any other questions? I'll move to reroute the smoker trail as proposed. Is there a sec? I'll second it. Any further discussion? Is in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. I'll suppose nay the ayes have it. And Simon is this your last meeting with us? Is that? It is yeah. Oh. You're you're not nearly as sad about that. No not at all. This has been great. I've really enjoyed it. I've learned a huge amount from everyone I've met and all the different boards I've interacted with. So it's definitely been a positive experience. But a few things have changed my family so we've just decided we're gonna meet that cat back so you can well it was always impressed by your presentations and your ability to answer questions and you're gonna be missed. Thank you. Yes thank you so much for all you've done for the town. Yeah so Simon's had a great job. The cat mount license agreement he'd show for that that assessed the ruin it was quite a little bit. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. We'll actually have them for the next item here. Do it all over again. It doesn't blow as well. All right next time I'm sure enough Allenbrook Bridge Damage. So Simon to give a brief update on this. Unfortunately the Allenbrook Bridge off of Village Community Park that we recently did some improvements to was damaged with December rainstorm so we're trying to figure out the next steps there and just a brief overview Simon of what happened. Yeah so so like Eric said we had that late December flood. We've got a lot of water coming down the Allenbrook and it's sort of it's quite impressive it really did feel the flood in the Allenbrook Nature Trail and you saw the floodplain doing its work. Unfortunately it did damage the boardwalk structure which is you probably know it's the structure down at the central school end of the Allenbrook Nature Trail. It's about 160 feet long. I sort of generally think of it as like four components. You've got the viewing platform nearest the school and you've got a boardwalk on posts. You've got a bridge that crosses the Allenbrook channel and then another boardwalk that takes you up to Creek's Edge and the rest of the trail. Those of you who've been here longer than I have will know that Peeve has been present on the Nature Trail for a very long time and we do have a history of reacting to their activities. Sort of they have established themselves in the boardwalk and I think that sort of combined with the floods and the nature of channels to sort of reform in the floodplain has resulted in a new channel opening up at the viewing platform end of the boardwalk. Unfortunately that's had the effect of eroding two of the posts that support the boardwalk and sort of basically just taking out the ground that supported them so as a consequence the boardwalk has sagged. So we have taken the decision we just sort of closed it as best I'm able to close it and the Winnieski Valley Park District has been installed with sports for it. So we have I think the boardwalk was probably established in the mid 90s and then it's been through two sort of major refurbishments one in 2008 and again as Eric mentioned in 2022. So I've reached out to the firm and the contractor who were involved in the latest refurbishment. So that was conducted in 2022 just summary that was primarily sort of re-decking using black locus wood which is really nice hardwood very optimistic it's going to last a long time and then we replaced the joist and beams on the original 2008 sports and then we also installed a sort of bridge across the channel which is built from four helical piers so that gets across that you might if you're familiar with the boardwalk that's where these sort of railings are as you go across the channel. So the engineers have come up with a preliminary concept working with the contractor that involves essentially replicating that sort of bridge that we built elsewhere so four helical piers and a sort of 25 foot span near the viewing platform and that gives us over the new channel. So we've had a look at that and sort of installing a new bridge there and then also railing because it is it is now above the channel. So that's sort of where we've reached sort of thinking about our options to take it forward looking at you know what else we can do I think I'm probably landing on this this is probably the best option just interesting any feedback or questions you might have on the situation. Yeah and I've been working with Simon on this and we're looking at the the financial component of it as well probably upwards of it's like to say over $30,000 for this repair. So I'll be bringing back to you some ideas as we work through this design and and process and potentially some ARPA funds could be used off set that as well but we're going to firm up those numbers right now but we'll bring to the board's attention that's that's the situation there keeping it closed the best we can for safety reasons so hopefully have some direction in the next month or two of what our plan might be at any questions the board has Simon's been. So this is I'm trying to visualize all the pieces that you're explaining so I've been across that a million times that for a million times but not recently obviously yeah because it's closed. So is this new design gonna I mean this is not the last time this channel is gonna move so is this new design taking that into account? It does so part of the design would include armoring the bank underneath where the bridge is to try and stop any more erosion. I can't completely predict how the channel's gonna move or if the beavers move in elsewhere and dam a channel you know having observed it over the last like six weeks I think I think that the existing the main channel is probably gonna stay the dominant channel which is where the most of the water goes through. This is only going to be like an overflow channel what we've done is we've as well as free arm of the banks we've also sort of tried to stop protecting the vegetation there and I think there's two sort of streams that feed the feeder channel or the directly overflow channel so I think one of them is quite small and the other one the beavers already started damning that so I think that's going to reduce that element and I think I think the Allenbrook will probably stay where it is and this drainage channel will just become an overflow when we get a lot of water coming down the watershed. Because that's what we've got a plan for now right? Right. I mean if we're just fixing it we've got to make it resilient that's all. And I saw it today that looks like a FEMA declaration is being applied for for that event but Chittin County is not on the list so I don't think this will push it over if we should look into that. If we're close maybe the bridge a little bigger maybe a little more county. In terms of timeline for you know the project itself I'm assuming we can get funding kind of figured out relatively quickly what are we looking at for a timeline for the actual construction and potential reopening? So we want to do some actual detailed design on the bridge to make sure of the obvious reasons. I know that the firm who are involved are pretty keen to be involved in this next step I think they consider it one of the projects they like so they're keen to be involved I think they could turn around design quickly within a month or so. The contractor themselves likewise are quite proud of this structure they told me they are actually booked for construction this season so we'd obviously have to date the decision whether to sole source with them or go out to beards they did tell me they just informally they'd probably find a way of squeezing us in this year if we could get the design resolved in funding and I think it would probably be a week or two's worth. Who's doing the design of this work? It's a company called Engineering Ventures so they'd be designing the how the bridge is going to work they also take a bit of advice from the contractor they the contractor actually helped us come up with this concept. So yeah hopefully be a good design. Right yeah yeah could be continued but we'll make the board aware of that that's going on. Well thank you again Simon. Next on the agenda the community center library project next steps. Yep can you yeah so I'll give a brief introduction and we have John Hemmelgarn with us from Black River Design who's been our architect partner in this project and we've got staff here and library trustees and other community members as well as part of this discussion. So last October I might recall the community center scoping and library assessment steering committee delivered a final feasibility report to the board recommending the town pursue an addition renovation to the library and a community recreation center facility in the growth center. Slickboards allocated some ARPA funding to continue this this project along this funding is planned to be used for site analysis in the growth center to see what locations may support a future community recreation center facility and for design work for a library addition renovation. So obviously there's many decision points for the Slickboard to think about so our intention this evening is to start a discussion on that and what that may look like. Preface the board doesn't need to make any silence tonight you know these are potentially two very significant projects with many check-ins and steps and no go no go decision making to happen here but it would probably be good to kind of frame these and think about how to delineate these these projects. So kind of one thing I'll leave you with here is these are two distinctive projects now has come out as a recommendation from the steering committee. So the Slickboard to think about how you want to treat those those projects in terms of a timeline financial components as well and project development you have a steering committee to help work through this initial thought of you know is it a combined is it too separate and landing on this recommendation of the addition and the new facility. So you could consider reestablishing the charge for that steering committee and having them focus on community restoration center component of it and I suggest pursuing the library project to make sense for the library trustees to take the lead in that or as we're getting to talk about design work for that and timeline as the trustees are the body to advise on that component. And of note our director Jane Kearns has been working on this Vermont library's capital grant due in March with about 16 million dollars of ARPA money available for library capital projects. John's been helping us as well think about how we may apply here and they can speak more to this but at the very least we can apply for components that we need to have a current library no matter what the timeline looks like here lighting electrical panel work weatherization those types of things so help can help get the bottom line down if we can get some current money to help with that regardless here. And so part for the board to think about and your decision to decide do you want to treat these as two separate projects or not or do you want to have things tied together and if you really think of a most aggressive timeline kind of taking that as one one benchmark to think about for a library addition renovation project the most aggressive you could probably be is the thing about a bond vote this November on election day and if the board made a decision that's what you wanted to pursue and certainly we need to get some things aligned here quickly the next month or two speaking with John that that is feasible but there'd have to be some decisions made in you know the next in the short term here if that's an option to pursue and of course there's a no go no point for if that was a scenario to play out it's a special town meeting needs to be more in 30 days before election day we'd have a firm idea on numbers and more talk about finance meeting up to that there's nothing that says you have to do that you know since you're prerogative you could you decide to have that a future town meeting if you want to move that project forward on the community recreation center side that project has a longer runway that we don't have a facility we don't have any property right now so part of this next trounce of funding is thinking about using the good work at the steering committee and the objective to look in the growth center to see what sites may be available to meet those needs and to get an idea of what that could encompass and that could involve the board wants for that project forward it could be stage it could be looking at firing property or with the future intent of that facility it could be tying something together with purchasing the property and building the facility there there's many different options to approach it but we're at a point now for the board to think about how it wants to develop these these projects at this phase and there's many check-in points here for these are significant so I think I'll pause there I asked John his firm he works with timelines and projects like this extensively so have time to chat with John just to have your questions answered and him to find his insights trustee is going to be presenting anything tonight as well he's waiting for a question for your question yeah to answer your question you know what Eric just gave you is he and I have discussed the and again some of those were my questions is whether this is going to be one project or two moving forward certainly as the committee made their recommendations to you it was clearly as these two separate projects your choice to keep them linked but there's really no reason for them to be other than a political decision that it was a better chance of success to have them like together you know the other thing I would stress is that if we were going to move the library project forwards and because there is a site essentially chosen we have got a conceptual design that I think everyone is happy with we are in a position to move ahead fairly quickly with that project having said that there's still a lot of work to do I know we we put out there things that look like they're nice plans and we put a price tag on it but it was really based on a very limited amount of information and we would really want to be much more comprehensive in terms of looking at the detail of the project what it would entail how we're going to build it what it would cost to be able to really confidently put a number in front of the community to be sure that we would be able to bring that project in on that budget and that takes a lot of work and then again you know Jane has done a lot of great work in defining what their needs are but we're going to dive in even deeper if we get to go do that so there is some work to do we would to meet a November bond vote schedule we would likely be meeting every two to three weeks with a committee which is I think another good reason to not have it be this throat so we would do that we would develop some additional detail to the plans we would ultimately get our engineers involved including the structural engineer you just heard about the we would then eventually having to find that scope get it to a professional cost estimator that would put a much more specific number on that we would include some contingencies there for all the things that we did for so we're not asking for more money later and then there comes a whole phase of I call it kind of scope budget reconciliation at some point you end up with too small scope to make it successful or in too high of a price to make it viable you have to kind of get those so that they overlap and that you actually have enough scope that people can support it for a price that's low enough that people can afford it and so that's the exercise there and that can take anywhere from two days to two months moving forwards and we need to do that then in time to properly warn the vote and have it on the ballot so the really time is of the essence if that were the direction you wanted to move we can do it I think that the library is sufficiently motivated to work towards that goal so the alternative then is to take the other risk that goes with that is that if you go too fast it can be more difficult to bring voters along so that they feel sufficiently informed to be able to make that decision so the along with this is a public information process to make sure people are aware of what's happening nobody likes thinking that they heard about the project the first time when the warning came out yeah but you don't know that everybody in town gets jane's email newsletter email so it won't be a problem not everyone reads them so that though it's a it's a very interesting dynamic process and if you don't start along that process you definitely won't get there by November you can always slow it down whenever you feel it's appropriate so the the rec center project wait can I ask a question okay so first of all I think if I remember you use like a $400 square foot kind of number for the library which I thought was actually pretty reasonable if you want to see but yes you don't remember it was something like that again we put contingencies in there and we probably put inflation factors on there given the fact we had no idea when it was going to move ahead yeah so I mean the thing we've seen with with school construction is that if you wait until town meeting you're probably not going to be breaking ground in the summer no right so you'd have to wait a whole nother year where November you might have a shot at it I think you're better off to with today's environment in the construction industry you're probably better off voting in March designing through the summer the fall and bidding it out and getting your pricing done in the winter but four people are busy you heard it's time and just say that you know the contractor is already booked for this summer it's February right so if you bid it out now a bigger project like that that's the best time it gives them a chance to order things like elevators which take months and months and months to get these days so I would say that the it's a better if you can vote whenever you vote you're still going to try to get it to so November this of 2024 or town meeting of 25 is still construction in summer of 26 probably I mean we could try to you know brush it through get our I should say push hard get a vote in November try to somehow get construction started by the end of summer the next that you can work through the winter and be done by it's hard but the school right there too it'd be hard to do that so yeah yeah I mean the construction of the library is going to be disruptive to library activities so the school the school is what I was worried about oh I see building in the summer is a few less kids in the building so you can yeah they did at the school but you know the library there's people in there all you know they're really there are I believe that the community has universal support for the library so I think we you know we need to definitely separate the two between you know the community center and the library I think that's two very separate different things I don't remember what the cost was I thought it was 19 versus 21 million for the addition versus the new library I don't know how that decision was really reached to add the addition versus a new library because there were too many comments I thought at that public forum about the lack of parking there's no parking at the current location I think you know I took a ride over to the South Burlington library I thought that was an amazing library I really really like that I thought it was a really smart idea they did it in a tipped district which would have helped with the financing of the library you know I feel it you know adding on is you know to me is to a building never really works out you know the library's been added on multiple times over the years it's in the town green I think I think to maintain that talented green in the historic district not tear it up change it I realized the library has a lot of after school programs it's a great place for kids to go after school looking further into the future I think locating a brand new building for about the same price in the tipped district would save us a lot of money good have you remember I can't remember I'm obviously blanking on numbers too but wasn't it pretty solidly supported to have keeping the village yeah I think from between the committees between the steering committee itself the the library trustees the pretty much everybody you know and we and we heard from in the surveys such a large number of people really felt the importance of keeping the library where it is in that current location and and that that was ultimately a big factor in why we decided that the community center would be in the growth center and the library would stay in the village because people you know wanted the the two touchstones you know and to have centerpieces of for the town be in the different locations but but yeah again time and time again we heard from folks that they wanted the library to stay where it was and and so that was that was the decision that was made I think the numbers too just to I think it was something like 12 million dollars I don't think it was 19 or 20 yeah it was definitely the library it was definitely less than that the 20 million is something was at the low end yeah yeah but and you know in in terms of the tifter I mean the tifter would be wonderful and all of and all of that the tifter district though it's not something we've even you know kind of it hasn't even I mean we've heard the beginning stages of it that is so many years down the the road in terms of you know being an option for this and so you know it's it's my thought that you know we have the momentum right now on these projects and so you know we we need to use that momentum from commitment from the folks in in the town and the you know we've heard from so many folks that this is what they want um so I mean I I see it as um really the question is now whether or not you know are we separating the two projects is the the first decision point yeah I'm just pulling up the numbers so we can spend a few months here so could there refresh these but these are the numbers at the time yeah you it was like 424 a square foot I think and it kind of averaged out and there was like a 7.8 for the addition if that looks familiar to John it does I have eight in my head so oh well I was I was see I wasn't I thought maybe we are shooting right then you can see if you slide down that the new library then was about and so it was about a two and a half million dollar difference I think the other thing that you probably would also be added to that difference would be the cost of land acquisition and land development whereas that's not that's that's one of the nice things about having it as an addition is that you've already got that property sorry sorry um property is already available well and parking was a big parking was a big issue and and that and and the committee itself spent a lot of time talking about parking and parking is a new plan for parking is part of this project there is plans for where there will be additional parking located for the library on the west side of the green yes yes um this question for you Eric or Shirley but can you remind me what what timing lines up with like our first would be a first principal payment being when we've paid off the public safety buildings FY 27 I believe it's a three the bond was three series so I think the first year of maturity for the first series was FY 27 I can't get that one unless Shirley knows at the top of her head we just decided that construction would be a 26 so that might line up pretty well with principal payment in 27 the public safety building but when they've paid off the debt here's our here's our debt schedule right here so police and fire bolts in the budget it wouldn't get issued public safety bills so you see there's three series right here so the first series the last principal payment of the 165 is done and after FY 26 and then the second bond matures in 27 and then the third bond matures in 28 so look at the bottom lines here this is our debt commitments right right now and then certainly if the bonds propose a town meeting day are approved adds a little bit but you know you start to get the big chunks coming off with the public safety bonds the sidewalk and path as well that's going to mature in 26 so you kind of add those to principal numbers you're offsetting that to some extent knowing that new construction debt service would be be higher than when this debt was taken on but helps to swap old debt with new debt right that's just adding I know my neighbor remodeled one of the remodeled his house he ended up tearing it down and rebuilding a new one it was cheaper got exactly what he wanted ideal I think we face a lot of put by it and I don't think that we can even because of the historic nature of the library that is would not even be an option but I don't mean that not location I just mean a new building you know usually a new building gives you what you want not piecemealing something together it's true I have a good designer can help a lot with you know one John I would just I'm being a little flipper I apologize for that but the we've done I've done a lot of public projects in my career predominantly schools but again the number of new schools that are built is extremely small the number of school renovations that happen are extremely large and that there's a reason for that and it's because it is less expensive you're not we're not changing the use of the building so it's a library now it will continue to be a library a lot of the functions that are there will stay in the same place in the building and that helps to save cost as well so there's a there are advantages there are disadvantages obviously constructing the building while it maintains its operations is a challenge but it's actually going to be easier than what we would typically see with the school school constructs you have drawings of the new like like this on what the new library versus the old library looks like yeah they were they're all included in that packet yeah we had it's presented to us here they're very uh the diagram at yeah but the concept is there that this because the slope the grade the building the site slopes down there towards the back of the site that we would actually drop the addition down a half a level so to keep the ridge from being quite so tall and I know Jane mentioned the Shelburne library I believe is a similar project I haven't been over there I apologize I did go to the south burlington library got a tour of that free eye opening the amazing library we should look up by how much the cost yeah that's a much larger that's a larger town 22 so well about three times as much there is a lot of money for it too yeah 50 million dollar town budget I think so they're 15 just in the interest of time and everybody's time here um do we do we want to talk about just that that initial decision again of are we in consensus that we would separate the projects we want to keep them together separate yeah you know we should separate them yep okay I'm not going to argue the location you know um so well I said in the next question right is that is the timeline is that I'm sorry I'm like picking up yeah how aggressive of a timeline with the select board like a target for library addition I mean I think the difference of the four months there if it means that you know we get things right and we slow it down we can get public as much public input as possible and really keep people informed and um you know the library trustees I'm guessing although you're super committed obviously you may not want to be meeting every two weeks for the next like six months to do but but ultimately if it's not going to affect the timeline of the construction like if instruction is still going to happen if we can spread it out for you and not have you burn out um to me that makes more sense to push it back yeah I don't think it was what we gained by brushing it and you know you could get lost in the presidential election mess so I think doing most of the heavy construction when schools had a session would be a big deal make a big difference I mean during school opening to closings you can't get in there now big lock now and if we have more room in our budget because we paid off one of the bonds for the public safety buildings are close to it probably better yeah certainly the financial piece is going to take a lot of work and thinking here we um we use a consultant um I got their draft report a couple weeks ago he's asked them to kind of come up with ideas for us you know um probably I want to look into more as more of the financing options they didn't dig into that as much as I as I thought they may but um you know we go through the Mistful Bond Bank um and we we see what the bond sale rates are but are there options for us to look at other bond sale opportunities even kind of dividing the debt up in different portions as well it's if we can get a good rate on it um I don't know the answer to that but I think it's worth pursuing just to see you know taking out a 10 million dollar loan if you quarter percent of an interest rate significant and if we can find the best deal that that's that's the best so thinking about um you know is there a you know a fundraising component you know you have a library for example there's friends the library that can kind of be um a branch of that as well so I think it's yeah it's there's a lot of pieces to figure out ultimately what you want to ask for for a bond with how to how to make these numbers work if you want to move forward I think the only just another thing I'm to mention if we're if we're I totally agree with splitting the projects is the right thing to do but the one thing that we need we can't let this project get so big that the second project becomes unaffordable so we really have to cut the targets that we talked about when we talked about the best two as one project should be the target um because I could I could see a kind of scope creep and uh but but we have another really important project that'll be coming shortly behind it hopefully and mindful of that even though we separate the projects okay so it sounds like we have consensus on that okay now what information would the board like to have to make a go no go decision on either project at this time my answer to that question is I have no idea wasn't expecting everyone yeah I'll know it when I see it a go no go on the library project and we know I'm just gonna cost right yeah let's go we're gonna get for that mon money so what I'm just to recap but what I'm hearing is you know the earliest to consider a bond for the library with 10 march 2025 you have money authorized for advancing the design work right now so flat for design will be working on that and it sounds like because that's just to work with the library trustees on on that component of it and we'll get work on getting the numbers and getting the details together and so probably be a conversation for the board to start having next late october early november um just kind of think leading up the town meeting day next year you know fast forward to january 20 11 months from now when you define lines your warning for 2025 and kind of work backwards from there so um you know kind of kind of thinking with a decision like this for a significant bond you know I think it'll be helpful for john's team and the library trustees to help kind of set some milestone check-in points here to help the scope of work play out and we can brainstorm those those two but just it's 11 months away but it's not that far just one time aside yeah I mean if there's anything that you get to the point where those numbers that we were looking at are just completely wrong and we have to rethink this in a major way you know we should put the brakes on before we get to the very end and then you tell us that those numbers just aren't going to work the process is set up to to give some good points at various places along the line um what one good news is is we have seen construction cost inflation drop it has flattened out significantly in the last couple projects I've been to actually come in on the budget that was projected so we've at least gotten to the point where we can start to accurately predict those again so that's that's good and and I would still recommend moving ahead relatively quickly maybe even at the outset to try to get the design set a little better and then it gives more time for public engagement and scope adjustment I was impressed with your use of the word scope creep that's a very it's a very real thing yeah something that we we try to watch out for my people of every time they have a a decision point so then thinking about like the community center project on the other side of that what would be the next steps you mentioned like you know possibly the steering committee would the the rec the rec committee maybe take a bigger role in this next phase as well or would it be you know the steering committee or should it be recharged to do that I think the steering committee's got a good sense from all the work they've they've put in I think there's been liaison Bob Metz who's the chair of the recreation committee served on that committee um there could be thought of recalibrating that committee a little bit too I don't know Carla was great in that committee but I think she might be busy on the trustee side so there might be um you know I could I could draft a revised charge and maybe there's a call for whether it's another person on the rec committee or a call from the community member to step in and kind of thinking about what's the right size for that for that group to steer that project that's because I said some money aside for that project as well right yeah the 150 number I know we're John I'm working kind of on scope with that as there's some subcontractors to get quotes from still on that and and just see how moving both these along how that plays out but that's the and that's the intent to um be able to analyze potential sites and even the town's known in property really the small property only makes your place is nothing of this part of parking lot in your shots but um you know it's a you I'll turn the job because I think as I understand the exercise is to you know we did it this way so you would know basically how big of a rectangle to draw was I just thought in my head okay how big of a rectangle do you need to draw there's going to be constraints in that rectangle for the scope that we're talking about and we actually need to see what land is available we would probably want to do a little bit more in-depth discussion with and the direct department about asking questions like how much parking will you be needing because we want to evaluate sites we're going to need to make sure that it's big enough also as Mike was saying you've got future future expansion potentially you don't want to get a site that's too small you want you want to make sure that it's big enough not only for today's needs but the future needs for this group of people 23 years from now so I think those are the things we want to do so a little more design work especially on the site side to just define what the needs are a little further and then really kind of brainstorming all the different potential sites are there we can eliminate some of those quickly some of them you know probably two or three you're going to want to look at more closely what to do some more site investigations maybe some digging a couple holes whatever maybe a little bit of site planning just to just to verify feasibility and that's so and then so there's really kind of three pieces or what we're going to do in the library to go from where we are now to a bond vote then the rec center we need to identify the site we were able to identify the site for library on the last round of work we want to get that we want to be able to get that far on the rec department or the rec center community center now and then there would be that to go from there to a bond vote to design with a real cost so that that's kind of a third piece so two of them now and then another base for community center and acquiring property that that happens in between the next two phases for that yeah and some I mean this is at some point we need to have a conversation of operation costs from the community center and that would be paid for so yeah is it would it be possible to do two different bond votes one for the property and then later on you know they're going to build it yeah I think we need to determine the wants versus the needs to well I would present it in the interviews as walks not moves the public is going to tell us whether there's really a want or because they're going to have to vote on it and fund it so or not um library folks um you've been listening do you have input and what's your thoughts on what we've done so far that's gonna say you know you always had more to say when we're on the school you know I mean the last time that I was here I I just expressed um well women and I both expressed our hope that things would keep going and you know getting the the extra funds has really helped that and it's it's really encouraging I will say that um just these past couple months I was getting my petition for to run for library trustee again and a lot of people brought up the fact that you know they're excited about these changes that are coming up um in the town of wilson with the library specifically was what we were talking about but then also about a potential recreation community center and I think that that the way the scoping committee worked really was great to get people involved and to have them feel like they have a voice and so I'm really happy to see that you know that that progress is being made um you know it's hard to think about waiting but it's better to do it right and um you know and to and to do it well so that when it comes to time for people to vote that they feel like they're going to be getting a quality um outcome and that they're going to be behind it and so I appreciate all of the the time that you put in and and thinking about it and grad was on the team too and and erican and john and jay and everyone who was who was part of this because I think it's going to be really cool for the town of wilson you know so um so thank you for that and that's all thank you any other questions or comments or concerns linda or i don't know i want to remind you from the community's side senator side or the steering committee side i don't have either of you come on then you have been tired you haven't been quiet yet but you have to come up to the table excuse me well i think um i'd like to just keep going with what carla said i think we have to keep the ball rolling forward as soon as we kind of stalling this we're going to be in trouble i think by getting that money set aside and doing some planning i i have lots of great ideas of where it should be but take me out you're on the committee right yeah i'm trying to bring it up but no it's it i just think we have to keep moving forward to this because wilson's too important and it's something that i think is healthy and necessary for this town and i think if you've gone through colchester then you see how it made the decision now they've gone forward it's really exciting to see what's going on there and to see that possibility happening in wilson so i has anyone seen what's going on at colchester nope it's really cool and it's not that machinery and no the building is up so i'm and it and it's doesn't require i mean you need enough land but it's not as much as you think you might need so i don't know i just want to keep moving forward there's a big difference in colchester just not costing the town or anything no because i think they planned before and they had their right uh fees built into it and that is and that's the thing i think one and you're so right on the theory i think the thing is that this has got to be a commitment for wilson and um it's a very different commitment and in its tough time right now to be thinking about that money so it's kind of i said it's not coming up in november but i think that it's on the docket we keep moving forward i think it's important but boy the money's going to be an issue yep and and that's where we see whether people want to put their money where their mouth is yep and there's ways to do it but that's why we have time so i don't know i just think people that you guys are um wanting us to go forward and helping us to see this because there's a lot of people have done this three times and here we are again i'd like to see um let's be able to walk into something rather than imagine it so i really thank you for your commitment and in a tough time that we're in right now um but it ends up being for the town and for the people so thank you anything else on this topic if not thank you should we have a motion to separate who's no formal action i don't think you need to take formal just looking for consensus so i can direct the john and his his work and how we have the advisory um i'll come back with the board with probably a revamped charge to consider for the steering committee um probably at your march thanks thanks john thanks thank you next agenda item temporary events permit trucking tuesdays at adams farm so adams farms done this event but it might be their fifth year now um so it's a series of events so it requires a temporary event permit it's included in your packet um staff's reviewed has has no objections spent a well-run event for a number of years would recommend adoption any questions is there a motion to approve a temporary event permit for the trucking tuesday series adams farm market for 2024 is there a second second further discussion all those in favor say aye aye those in a the eyes have manager yeah let's hit a few highlights um quarterly report wrapped up thanks for erin victims and for getting that together um so i include that in hard copies and digital copies of how you get your um your packet um since you know last week on this with the arpa funds um we're looking at this i know originally was going to plan to have discussion tonight on some allocations and suddenly the gender got busy anyway but um i chatted with ted about this we we think there's a good opportunity here to um remove these timelines that are attached to it um number of towns have done this in consultation with our auditors at the lct um we just need to get some um just for a process right now um or it would essentially involves moving it away from an arpa fund and to book the money as excess revenue in a single year and then you can commit that fund balance as a committed fund balance don't call it arpa but call it like community projects fund you end up in the same place but it removes the um need to decide how to commit it by the end of 24 and spend it by 26 so um we're getting that feedback now just to be sure and then i'll think of this to you in in march if not the meeting right after that so if there's action to consider you can consider those steps and it would give you as you make your arpa decisions removing those timelines i just may affect some of your decision-making knowing that you don't have i think there was there was maybe it was there was at least one public works thing that was like there's no way that's happening by the deadline right so it would be good i i kind of like i just dismissed it or it wasn't even on the list now it's like maybe it's a timeline thing so yeah we don't really need any more just choices eric well my my one hesitation with this is it sends awesome you know like the obviously the having the more flexibility i worry that the longer it gets drawn out though the more there's just going to be things that are going to come up that we're going to be like well okay now we're just going to use it for this and this budget and this budget rather than for intentionally planned community projects so thanks my my goal would be to get this to you in march and then um a tense discretion scheduled at the discussion probably in an april time so to that but that'll be after the town yep yeah go ahead sure um so i'm just gonna ask about the article to hang out um if you made the decision um you were talking about march eric but the next reporting deadline for the arpa money is march 31st by april 15th so if the decision was made just to say it's general funds balance then that would be the last arpa before we have to do this so long for surely but wait is that followed or the single audit though if we move it all um oh okay that was during the budget we thought you we would thought you wouldn't have to do it so yeah well that factor yeah thanks sure um i would slay us looping back on the energy efficiency and conservation block grant i i had bruce look at our our trucks um looking to see if the board like to proceed with purchasing the mowers and i think it would leave i think it's around 10 or 12 000 remaining i can come back with some options for that melinda suggestion could use it for technical assistance could look at some other items for the trucks the challenge are most of our our fleet is heavy duty trucks and they don't make that model in an ev yet um and our recreation truck we just got a new one and that was an insurance claim took about a year to get the truck there i'm thinking it'd be helpful for the board um kind of building a list of all our vehicles and a list of kind of status on ev and kind of timeline and i think it could help kind of master plan our approach here for her vehicles as well and kind of unpack that information um i know we have to make decision on this i think by april but i want to loop back and see if we just proceed with the mowers if there would be consensus from the board on that yeah absolutely yeah just in like there's consensus last time on that yeah okay um simons news i'll also share i'm planning we've promoted um andrew plum our planning technician was stepping in the simons shoes here it's conservation planner um andrew's worked for us for a couple years doing a great job um ability to uh he's been overlapping the simon a little bit on projects and formally made this promotion last year so um bale spends the time with simon over the next week so that's good news we'll advertise for that position um and finally i got our local options tax report for the year we're about 2.1 million dollars um the tax department so i remember we had a robust first quarter but then our second quarter was low so so what's going on here and they had a software issue so the timeline they cut off for the first quarter was longer than it usually is so that was a higher receipts so then the second quarter is a little lower because that timeline was a little bit too so halfway through the year we're still 2.1 million we budgeted 3.6 million we will watch this though because we use those first quarter numbers to help model our budget for next year so we use that as part of the models um we still think we modeled i think about 4.1 for f y 25 as well so i think we're we're on pace this year we'll we'll keep an eye on it but just to show it it's challenging um we don't have a level of detail here we advocate for online for ourselves as well just bring to your attention um i talked to the tax department about that and it's it's challenging when these things it's so good news for f y 24 yeah yeah f y 24 is still still trending towards over budget by half so that's moving ahead and that's all i have seen one quick other business item and there is other business these are tobacco license renewals we consulted like a little town clerk and she consulted with dlc um we're on all these kind of different timelines now for for these um it used to be a uniform date but now when the new ones can start from the new date so the the guidance we've received is to consider a motion to renew the licenses and the um separate endorsement of names escaping me right now um and then sarah will go ahead and and approve those for another another year period no violations no violations that i've received i need you to go do that one more time sure i didn't have the motion the memo in front of me um so the board needs to renew all tobacco and tobacco substitute licenses that's the name of it on an annual basis these all run they used to run from a april 30th to may 1st timeline each year but now same with liquor licenses if someone applies for this the one that's coming up is arson vapor that came that always runs on the date where it was originally granted they don't do this um uniform um renewal so you have all these potential licenses that are all staggered based on when they were initially established so the board needs to renew things on a yearly basis so the motion would be to renew everything for another comes up to um as opposed to uh separate motions based on the date of the we asked the lc what's the best way to handle this not what they suggest so instead of us someone coming to us in march or some another one in july another one in whatever it would just be like here's the date they need to be renewed this physically exactly there is a 120 day window but in talking with sarah all these capture 120 day window from now when those dates would hit are these like standalone tobacco shop things or anybody who sells the only one is the arson vapor shop the others are all corner but yeah yeah so some of these are pretty far out though i mean and you said there's been no violations of a record currently but if they're between now and the date of the actual renewal of the license if there was a violation of some sort would there be a way you know to address that or now you know if we approve it all now then we're it's approved no matter what it's a good question i'm um i can ask dlc to see yeah i would have to confirm that but i know you're the license the local licensing agency so i'd have to see what kind of clawback yeah or something it makes sense you approve something and with anything then six months after a liquor license is approved there's an egregious violation right well that that's my only concern my only hesitation approving blanket them all right now is if something comes up between now and the date i mean i don't want to make more work for us as a board to have to approve them individually but i don't remember doing any of these in the last year we've um we found out with the tobacco um the town hadn't done it for a number of years then we got guidance last year saying the tobacco needs to be renewed as well as the liquor licenses we typically do the liquor licenses in the march meeting and it's it changed a bit last year with this new law with the different timelines that we were into but it was probably your first meeting comes all blur when is the so are you said artisan vapor is the one that's coming up most recent or if we held it off until our next meeting would it still be i think you'd be fine if if you wanted to consider the arson vapor renewal tonight and then i can get guidance on the others i don't think there's i would feel more comfortable with that okay yeah i'm sorry what cut what was the vapor artisan is that's the name of the all it's like all the common corporate yeah it's in the maple tree place yeah you heard from them last year to grant their license originally name in the store so do we need to have a motion to yeah um i'll move to approve uh one year tobacco license renewal for artist and paper is there a second second further discussion all those in favor say i and we'll take up the other licenses after we get the answer to i'll get that guys for your march thank you okay good question for it okay is there any other other business i don't i'm just gonna say i'm not sure this is other other business but i have a question on the quarterly report um yeah thank you this is actually i know you're it's probably real pain for your department has to put this together but it's really informative and easy to look through and stuff um i'm still really confused by the community justice center they were just tired two temporary part-time employees and and i don't i just think i need more information on that full structure and i don't know i know you've asked a couple times mike to so i think i'm not the only one who's could use a little more in-depth understanding of that it's on an operational standpoint yeah who's like it seems like they do an awful lot of really important work with like one full-time person and yeah but i can say that the staffing's been a bit of transition we had two full-time people for a while then we had the second full-time person leave um about a year ago so we've kind of been in limbo a bit there's been the state funding question as well and it sounds like the grant from DOC is going to move to the AG's office um i don't know what the conversation is right now so we've been planning talking about reposting that second full-time position in the next week or two to line that up but the two temporary and it's down the one person working part-time to support the director right now has been a been a bridge approach trying to get us back to that staffing model so at the end so at the end of the day it's two what what they what we budgeted for i guess in between the grants and what we budgeted is two full-time full-time has been um i think for about three years now surely we made the other the second position used to be i think 28 hours something like that before then we bumped it up to 40 maybe three years ago it's just something i'm still interested in if we could have you know them come in and give us a little presentation about what they do and what they're working on and who who's doing what and i know the board members came they might be interested in it just it's like such a super important piece of our public safety structure and it's it's also oh yeah and then the cj well let's try to get it let's get a presentation on the agenda yeah that would be great thank you i agree with gene you know i look at what the williston community justice center offers they're offering it for five to six towns yeah i have over 200 cases a year the cases have gone up a lot the last couple of years it's just a lot there's a lot there's a lot more to it than we i think we really are than i ever realized you know a lot of mediation conflict resolution youth panels mentorships internships this new domestic violence responsibility they're picking up it's just seems overwhelming i think it's a way for us to be proactive on this issue any other other other other has my be home like 8 30 tonight and uh item last final thoughts on agenda items from this meeting hearing none clear that we are adjourned thank you