 October 15th Common Council meeting will the clerk read the order today. I'd be happy to. You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you. Can we call the roll please? You're here. 15 present. There's a quorum president Alderman Van Ackerman is excused. Will Alderman verse he please lead us in the I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Approval of the minutes Alderman Hammack. Thank you Mr. Mary move to approve the minutes of the previous council meeting. Second. Been moving seconded to approve the minutes of the previous council meeting. Is there any changes or discussion? Are you none to call the roll? 15 ayes. Motion carried. Mayor's appointments. I hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration. Amy Horst to be considered for appointment to the redevelopment authority to fill the unexpired term of Mark Miller whose term expires for twenty eight twenty fourteen signed by the mayor. That will lie over. Tonight we have a presentation from Ed Huck of one thousand friends of Wisconsin. If you'd like to come up. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Members of the council ten years ago when I was executive director of the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities in conjunction with the county's association the League of Wisconsin municipalities and the Alliance of Cities a thousand friends we created this fair share coalition because we could see that there was something happening with local reimbursements to local government for road assistance over at five years at that time from ninety seven till two thousand two. We made a mistake ten years ago ten years ago we did not come to the councils we did not talk to the councils about what was going on and consequently when your legislators talk to you folks talk to the mayor they didn't really know all of that what was going on and things continued the way that they have been continuing for the last for ten years thereafter. So what I'm doing now as I'm traveling around the state I'm stopping at a whole lot of council meetings talking about this particular issue because it's gotten to be quite a serious situation. So we are we call ourselves the fair share coalition as before and I hope I push the right button because if things continue we see some bad roads ahead if excuse the pun. So user fees for user fees like gas tax and registration fees most people think that that's what pays for state roads state highways and local roads but as you folks know here that that's a myth that's that's not what happens what happens around on average with municipalities eighty percent of the cost of maintaining and policing local roads in the state are paid for either by property taxes or by fees or by transfers in the state like shared revenues. The fact is there's a crisis on the horizon if it isn't already here as it relates to local roads and the situation is that that most of the revenues are currently going to state and federal highways which means that there's stress at the local level but more importantly is that we're we're actually collecting less money at the state. There's a commission that's been put together by Governor Walker headed up by Secretary Gottlieb to look at the gap between highway or maintenance local roads that needs the just on the maintenance end of it they project a balance it's going to cost another five billion dollars more in revenues just to maintain the highway lane miles that we have they don't have that money in addition if they take all the needs local state bridges all of that they're looking at a gap somewhere between four and fifteen billion dollars so there's a very serious financial situation well needs however a relative thing but the reason for this is we're driving less for one in the last five years vehicle miles traveled as actually declined in Wisconsin twice and we're driving more efficient cars or at least we will be at some point my cars are my cars 10 and 15 years old but when the dog dies I'm going to get a new car and it will be more efficient than the two that I currently have and so will it be through Wisconsin so the combination of those two the projections from the committee are looking at flat revenues over the next ten years so no new revenue growth in the fund compared to the needs that will be adding up over that time so that means less in the transportation fund more spending on highways you can start to see where this thing is heading so two things first is the first of the middle line the lower one is what's happened with road aids as a percent of the budget 15 years ago 40% of the fund went back to local government in some way shape or form today that's 30% and at the same time in terms of highways when you can add in debt service 61% of the revenues are going for highways what's worse than that is debt $781 million have been committed in the next budget for debt service this is borrowed money to expand highways that's already spent and this the debt service is $781 million for the two-year cycle that's a significant amount that's 12% of the entire revenues by the state are going for debt service so the stats should say that local governments can get 85% of their costs from user fees paid for at the local level so what happened in 2010 towns got 37% of their costs counties got 20% of their costs and cities and villages got 17% of their costs 15 years ago you were at around 25% of your cost being paid for you can see the decline in what has been going on it's a combination of your costs going up and the revenues not keeping pace with those costs so the shortfall continues 90% of all roads in Wisconsin are local roads 90% 30% of the revenues highways are 10% of the roads including debt service 62% of the revenues and this can be even with the cuts that came down in the last budget highway spending went up $400 million where everything else was cut everything else was cut so one of the questions is should we allocate the money based on vehicle miles traveled which is it's a valid discussion well right now 60% are driven on highways I think one of the interesting things I found out in doing my research less than 18% of vehicle miles traveled in Wisconsin are on interstates less than 18% that's a that's a kind of a startling figure 40% vehicle miles traveled are on local roads but we're getting 30% of the funds and by the way that 30% of the funds includes transit aid connecting highway aids as well so in terms of just general aids it's even less than the 30% so while highway spending is going down or highway driving is going down and more driving is happening at local roads the combination of more spending on highways and less on local roads is quite puzzling in fact Wisconsin is 11th in the nation in terms of dedicating money to new highway capacity even though our population growth is figured to grow at half of the national average kind of an interesting scenario so what's going on what happened in the last budget shared revenues were cut 7% general transportation aid 6% transit operating 10% recycling the aids down 40% your taxable property has either been stagnant in terms of value or declining which puts pressure on rates and we all know how folks feel about their property tax rates so the levy limits were made perfect permanent and so that the question is what are the options for local government the average expenditures for local roads support in municipalities around Wisconsin is about 20% of your budget so this is no small matter this isn't something that you can just brush it with stormwater police and just the deterioration of your local roads somewhere around 43% of local roads are less in less than good condition on average in Wisconsin so now we're not going to return to these old days although there's a couple of roads up in Ashland that they the mayor tells me could look that way but this is a serious situation in this sense local roads need to be safe in terms in the cities they need to be safe in rural areas and this is not what you want in terms of economic development of that every spring the shabuigan press does a story on potholes I'll put I'll put my money on it in fact there are newspapers that always show me the potholes that we've got in their cities it's it's the fact is that any truck I mean we need good I'm not saying that we don't but every truck that that travels on a highway leaves that highway and it finds some type of a collector or arterial to deliver their goods within a city or a village or a town because the economy doesn't happen on the highway the economy happens in mostly in the cities but it also in the rural areas I mean that what's going on in some of the counties the frack stands on the western part of the state what that's doing to county highways is just obliterating them bridges are under tremendous stress in the rural areas because of the lax the lumber coming down and other large bulk materials that are being shipped or coming into the Green Bay Harbor or coming into the Milwaukee Harbor a lot of bulk goods coming in and then coming over those roads so the reality of it is we need balance and we currently do not have balance we have for 15 years focused on highway expansion and lane mile expansion for highways that has been the focus other states are looking at what the federal government is likely to do Wisconsin projects as much as a billion dollars less in federal revenue coming into the state in addition to the fact that state revenues are flat so if the highway spending continues and revenues remain flat or declining there's only one target and it happens to be local government and the impact on you folks could be quite significant and quite severe because the fact of the matter is what that would mean is you'd wind up borrowing in order to get around the levy limits you wind up borrowing you wind up going the debt route and frankly that's not sustainable that is that is not sustainable so what's going on the two big highway projects there's there's four billion dollars committed to those projects already that that money is committed and that's for the I-39 between Illinois and in Jane'sville and I-94 between the Illinois line and north of Kenosha they're getting 60 percent of the revenues currently we're getting one third and that's where the name comes the fair share coalition what we're considering because our legislative efforts have not been successful is a constitutional amendment now this may sound radical but it really isn't ratios are not uncommon in state constitutions the state of Illinois has a ratio between personal income tax and corporate income tax as an example so what we're suggesting is that half of state revenues that come from the people that drive it from the cities the towns counties villages come back to local governments and so what I'm here tonight is to ask the council to consider passing a resolution in support of a constitutional amendment minimally the League of Municipalities has a position coming up this month that asks for 24 percent of the costs of local governments to be sent back from the state which is a pretty significant increase in itself so between the League of Municipalities or what we're advocating for what we are saying is that it is critical for local governments to find some balance so that you folks can deal with your local roads through user fees not from property taxes not from borrowing not from new fees which is pretty much what the legislature has left you good folks with or something of this nature so the politics of the last 15 years has been to take the what would appear anyway is that as debt has been going up local aids have been going down that that seems to be the scenario that is occurring and the state is looking at shortfalls and if they continue their spending habits on new lane miles that means more debt and more pressure for local aids so this is a serious situation this is no small matter and it's come to a peak so the question what we're asking other states like Pennsylvania that are looking at every highway project that they had on the books that they thought they needed and they scrubbed five billion dollars in projects they said that were not critical to the economy of the state and so this commission that the governor has is looking at revenues it's looking at only one side of the equation there is an assumption that everything else is okay and the fact of the matter is everything else is not okay because eat I don't know how many people here would support a significant increase in the gas tax or some new fee or a huge jump in the registration fee I don't see the state legislature doing that so if they don't do that what are they going to do and what we're suggesting is they invest in what they have they make sure that what they have works and that would mean that local governments would have to see a significant increase in their in their aid so I'm here to ask you to take some action I've left with your city clerk some copies of a potential resolution as well as copies of the resolution that was passed by Ashland and by West Alice as an example of what those two cities have done so I could answer some questions if the mayor would wish me to do that or council all right thank you I thank you for your time thank you city clerk the public forum first this evening we have Frank Cosin okay and Frank I need your home address please you may go and I will get you going go ahead you'll have five minutes I'm assisted by my wife Mary Cosin and this originated as an inquiry regarding school issues I realized school district employees who contribute to the retirement fund are no different than municipal employees that contribute to the retirement fund so that's why I'm presenting it here and I'd like to begin how that teachers contribute half to the retirement system your school district municipality has higher payroll costs and your tax bill goes up thanks that time that's right when teachers municipal employees pay nothing the school district municipality has lower payroll costs and your tax bill goes down this is not smoke and mirrors an example and those trade of salary of 10,000 not realistic but makes the math easy so security is really 6.2 here around it is 6% Medicare is really 1.45 rounded to 2% retirement fund contributions are 5.9 percent here on 6% and zilch is what currently the district or municipality pays towards the teachers prior return when you add this up it's $11,400 that's here next year let's say there's a 3% increase account for inflation now from 10,000 to go to 10 to 300 every category increases this is still zilch there's still not paying teachers or municipal workers part it's not 11,074 to 42 but what happens if the union whether teachers union is working again accepts no raise in exchange for something else what is that something else no raise that $300 that was the 3% increase is over here now the district or municipality pays the $340 of total and when you add these things up because look this is still 10,000 this has not risen this has not risen this has not risen the sum total is 11,700 11,700 is less than 11,742 and the district municipality saves money this is not smoke and mirrors folks look at those figures again 11,742 district municipality forbidden by act 10 to pay that share 11,700 the district municipalities permitted $42 per savings per 10,000 per teacher let's see what happens in the real salary in the midsize district real estate salary 40,000 average super 10th custodian $42 per thousand times 4 because that's how you get to 40,000 168 savings per teachers 168 savings per teachers times 700 teachers about your point in size drum roll please 117,600 the first year savings to miss that savings for the district municipality and lower tax flow for you in just the first year and there's more savings each every year savings that increase does the impact on the next last page over 12 years on the sides district 700 points 40,000 average here only 1.5% increase not 3% cumulative savings over 12 years 2,891,501 dollars through the state we could say there's 70,000 as 100 times 700 teachers or employees that comes at 289,150,100 dollars act 10 is not a tool for saving districts or municipalities money and as of 1231 11 is required by report of the 2011 act 32 active participants teachers municipal workers judges protected services are 260,711 that is nearly 70,372 times 700 and 200 200,891,501 times 372 equals 1,075,638,372 that's over 12 years averaging nearly 90 million per year you say that's a stunning number how can it be well folks if you can save 28 dollars per month per person that's a 36 dollars per year per active person so so over 12 years that's 4,032 dollars savings for a participant 42,000 4,032 for active participants at times 260,711 is 1,051,186,752 actually comes this comes out to about $20,075 and guess what on the last page I'll show you that when the teachers pay nothing they'd be more federal income tax not much they'd be more Wisconsin income tax not much but no one's gonna say that they're getting a free ride and they're not paying their share of the Wisconsin tax or federal tax and they've really no race for several years why would they agree no race they end up with more money in their pocket impossible no the math is mad hold on Frank that's it okay I could show you a little bit if anybody doubts it I'll be available to show you the numbers and I'm gonna be at the meat library locker room Wednesday in the afternoon Thursday in the morning anyone's gonna touch me this is here I also have she said have your representatives and state representatives and state senators numbers perhaps you should ask them what were they thinking when they passed this act it costs money thank you Frank thank you Frank anyone else on the Daryl could you pull the podium back for me yes we have one other person Dulcy Johnson please can you get in there Dulcy can I have your home address please 1306 North 3rd Street Sheboygan I have five minutes Mayor Van Akron City Clerk Richards City Attorney McLean Alderman and citizens on September 4th I spoke at the public forum about ambulance revenues for 2011 the 41% collection rate and the marginal loss of over $300,000 on September 17th at the public forum Chief Administrative Officer Amodio spoke about setting the record straight but in rebotting the figures I presented for 2011 revenues Mr. Amodio cited ambulance revenues for 2012 I never mentioned 2012 I only spoke about 2011 Mr. Amodio also disputed my statement that the city's collections for 2011 were 41% of what was billed and stated that collections were 77% I was not at the council meeting on the 17th but I watched a rerun of the meeting and emailed Mr. Amodio with my response noting that the finance department chooses to consider adjustments when they calculate the percentage of receipts even though the city does not receive the adjustments in response to my email Mr. Amodio stated and I quote your 41% is correct however it must be put into context Medicare and Medicaid they only pay on average 38% of the amount bill the most the city could collect is 58% of all claims billed this 58% compared to 41% it does not take into consideration the 90 to 120 day payment lag end of quote on August 21st I had emailed a Freedom of Information Act request to Nancy bus in the finance department requesting a copy of the billing service provider activity for calls from January 1st 2011 through December 31st 2011 the wording of my request was identical to the request I made last year for 2010 figures last year the information I received include to the number of calls gross billings adjustments receipts and the percentage of collections and adjustments this year in response to an identical request I only received a listing of the number of calls each month I don't know why I didn't receive the complete information but I did indeed find the information I was seeking in my files Mr. Amodio said that my calculation of 41% did not include the 90 to 120 day lag receipts the billing collection information I received from Mr. Amodio when I met with him in chief Herman does not indicate payments for 2011 billings so I don't know where or how that information is recorded Mr. Amodio said that the most the city can collect is 58% of all claims so I asked him why he said collections were 77% in response Mr. Amodio said and I quote for net collections we are collecting 77% of the 58% without considering the lag in payments this is why it is very misleading let me repeat that for net collections we are collecting 77% of the 58% without considering the lag in payments this is why it is very misleading misleading that is an understatement how do potential maximum collections of 58% result in net collections of 77% would a private business consider what they could have collected or adjustments that they had to write off as part of their income I think not I have never learned new math I only learn good old fashioned arithmetic and billings of two million one hundred and fifty three thousand eight hundred and thirteen dollars and receipts of eight hundred and seventy seven thousand four hundred and fifty two dollars results in a collection rate of 41% I am hard pressed to believe that the lag receipts would raise that percentage to 77% indeed although buildings and receipts for twenty ten were lower when I add the collections for twenty ten buildings received in twenty eleven the percentage of buildings for twenty ten with the ninety two one hundred and twenty day lag is only forty two percent some have called the city's ambulance accounting system voodoo economics I call it gobbledygook thank you thank you Chelsea that would be it we'll move on to the public hearings first public hearing is a public hearing which time any resident or taxpayer of the government unit shall have an opportunity to be heard on the proposed budget two people so far that have asked to be heard Mike Burnett like we already have your address and things so thank you me I don't have much to say because the bottom line is I don't really know how to respond it's like walking to a restaurant they give you a menu and it says food on it it's like you want food or no I mean there's a budget there but there's no items on it and it's like but if I was a gambling man I'd roll on public safety just give everybody batting helmets and some safety gloves maybe steel tool shoes that seems to be the bulk of all our budget there and it's like but overall I know our budget is relatively tight in the sounds the way it is but I'd like to be able to see a little expansion and I understand with a lot of stuff it's like I don't know if we're competing with Sheboygan Falls and its secret information or whatever but in the days of the internet that stuff can be spun out there pretty quick and then people would really have a clue what's going on and I know it opens a can of worms but so be it and that's all I got other than that was freaking awesome Frank and I would like to get to the night. Thank you Mike. Next person signed up is Maeve Quinn. Good evening Mayor Van Akron, Alderman and Citizen. Thank you for the opportunity to speak at the public hearing of the budget of the city of Sheboygan. Maeve could you speak a little more into the thank you. Thank you. These last few years have not been easy for our city to create a budget that reflects the needs and wants of its citizens. Tonight I'd like to share with you my own perspective of excuse me of this city. Twenty years ago my husband and I chose to live in the city of Sheboygan. Today we are still choosing to live in the city of Sheboygan because we strongly believe that the taxes we pay support services that we need. We value the strong public safety of police and fire, mead public library, local parks, clean drinkable water, the transit service, garbage pickup service, and the snow removal service. Now I hope because I said the word snow in October I haven't made that happen for tomorrow so thank goodness it's made out of wood. A few weeks ago UW-Sheboygan interviewed several potential dean candidates that came from all over. I was invited to provide one of the candidates with a short driving tour of the city of Sheboygan. We were encouraged to show off the best of the city. Before beginning the tour I had asked him if there was anything in particular that he really want wanted to see. He promptly asked to see our library, some of our neighborhoods, and Lake Michigan. You can probably imagine where this person was probably from not around here. This really made me smile and I asked him why he wanted to focus on these areas. He shared that one of the ways he judges communities is how they value their local library and how they value their unique natural resources. He was astonished by the incredible open access for all to enjoy Lake Michigan. I did the real slow drive from the south side and all the way up. He was also when we stopped in at the library early in the afternoon he was quite thrilled to see over 100 citizens of all ages utilizing the library services. It was really quite fun to show off our amazing city. As all of you already know our citizens of the city of Sheboygan certainly value their meet public library. Over 32,000 people hold library cards. 32,000 citizens. Over 120 citizens visit the library every single hour. Over 800,000 items were checked out in this past year and of those that were checked out 73% of those items were city of Sheboygan residents. This is quite extraordinary. Our citizens truly value and utilize this public service. All of us working together promises a strong future for meet public library. Thank you. Thank you, Maeve. Thank you. Is there anybody else like to be heard? Can you state your name and address for the clerk, please? Kathy Norman, 3217 North 6. I'm sorry, 3217 North 6. Okay. I came to speak in support also of the library. Normally one would make comments in response to a very tangible budget proposal. This one's been a little bit circuitous. I don't even quite know how to respond. Other than to say I know right now the library isn't seem to be facing any significant cuts but I know anything can happen so I would remiss if I didn't act on behalf of the library. I'm on the library board as well as the library foundation board and one of my roles is to mean advocate for the library. So I thought you should hear that there are still lots of people out in the community agitating to support the library that would be very unhappy if the city council didn't support it to the level it's been supported before. We have lots of essential services that you support but I can't think of one that's more tangible when you've got more than half of your population with library cards and if you spend any time at the library I hope all of you do but it is a beehive of activity, 24-7. I have never been there when it isn't just humming. I'm there probably four or five days a week. I've gotten a lot of parking tickets there. I always spend more time inside than I think I'm going to and my meter runs out but it is always always busy. One story I like to tell people is that I had a old professor from Northwestern University come up. She was trying to solicit support for a new program at Northwestern and she came early to our meeting and she killed some time at the library before we had our appointment and when we got together she said I just spent two hours at your library and I cannot believe what an incredible facility that is. She said for a community this size I am so impressed and I thought that made me proud about living in Sheboygan and we need to keep that going. That's what keeps our downtown vibrant. It can be a fairly, you know, not so exciting downtown but I think the library is the tenant or the the anchor of that downtown so I would urge you to support it to the level you always have and to give it your utmost support. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Anyone else wishing to be heard? Anyone else wishing to be heard? Anyone else wishing to be heard? Alderman Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move we close the hearing. I move and seconded the hearing be closed. Clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carries. Second hearing tonight is public hearing amending the zoning map for property located at 2013 South 13th Street from class in our neighborhood residential to class neighborhood commercial classification. Is there anyone here to be heard on that hearing? Is there anyone here for the second hearing? Is there anyone here for the second hearing? Alderman Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move we close the hearing. I move and seconded to close the hearing. Clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carried. Move on to the consent agenda 3-1 through 3-19. Alderman Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Please bear with my voice. Motion to accept and file all RO's accept and adopt all RC's pass all the resolutions pass all ordinances and substitute of substitute ordinances. Second. It's been moved and seconded to pass all committee reports, pass all RO's, pass all resolutions and substitute resolutions. Alderman Carlson. Thank you, Mayor. I would like to pull 3-18 for a separate vote. We will move on 3-18 first. Alderman Carlson. Any discussion or just? I guess the next nation with 3-18 is bringing back the overtime compensation only on the holidays. Last time we had a brief discussion on the vacation, which were the benefit days. So they were removed and this would take effect at the beginning of the year. Alderman Carlson. Thank you, Mayor. I can't support this mainly because I don't think we should be paying overtime for hours not worked. I don't think I should really have to say more than that. Alderman Bourne. Thank you, Mayor. I'm not going to support this either, but I wish if our HR manager or Mr. Amorio could explain the financial implications of this if it does pass. HR director, I see, is headed on the way up here. Sandy? Good evening. Financial impact would be approximately 75,000. We had anticipated if we had included vacation and holiday it'd be about 100,000. The holiday schedules, if you can imagine, we can't move or juggle schedules. The garbage still has to be picked up. So that's the majority of that cost, about 75,000. Any other questions? Alderman Carlson. Anybody else have any questions? I have a question. Is the 75,000 part of the already existing money that we're paying, or are we paying an additional 75,000? Because right now we're paying it at straight time no matter what. We're paying that straight time so we figured that would be additional cost. Okay, so if we were paying $10 an hour for straight time and $15 an hour for overtime, it would be that extra $5 would have to another 75,000. Thank you. Any other questions of the HR director? Thank you, Sandy. Alderman Risler, we need a motion then on 318. Thanks. I would move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted. Second. It's been moved and seconded. The committee report be accepted and adopted. Any other discussion? Hearing none, the clerk will call. I'm sorry. Hang on. Sorry, Mr. Mayor. And I believe, what was the second part all around? Subs of subs. Pass of substitute. And then I just have a couple of comments on it as well. I understand that you don't want to pay for work that isn't done but unfortunately as we go back and I talk about the private sector, if we're calling somebody on a Saturday to come into work or on a Sunday, we're paying the extra money. Unfortunately, we're putting these people out to do this and work an extra day during the week and right now they're being compensated at straight time. And again, I go back to the private sector where they would be compensated at additional time. It was a five nothing vote at the committee and like I said, I think that we have an obligation to our employees as the gentleman who presented the Act 10. This is somewhat of a compromise with the employees to get from where we were to where we are now. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Carlson. Thank you, Mayor. I work in the private sector full time and when I take, let's say, Labor Day off, I get paid my eight hours holiday pay. I work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and I usually have to go in on Saturday. I work my 40 hour work week. I do not get paid overtime for that eight hours on Saturday because it's still within my 40 hours. If I were to happen to work over 48 hours to include my holiday pay, then I would get overtime. So you can't blanket say that everything in the private sector pays overtime for that extra day worked. Thank you. Any other discussion? Hearing none, the clerk will call the roll. That was fast. Apparently seven eyes, eight nose. Motion fails. I'm gonna leave it up for a couple minutes. We'll take on everything on the consent agenda except 318. Now we had a motion to accept all the RCs, all the committee reports, all the reports of all sort of resolutions and substitute resolutions be put upon their passage. Any discussion on anything else? Clerk will call the roll. 15 eyes. Motion carried. 41 Report of Officers from the Plan Commission recommending, um, ending the zoning property located at 3711 South Taylor will lie over. 42 will be referred for three is been withdrawn. Communication 44 will be referred and 45 will be referred. 51 Resolutions introduced by Alderman Heidemann authorizing persistent agent to prepare an issue request for proposals for real beautification of city owned shanty at 705 Riverfront Drive. Alderman Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. I put resolution upon his passage. It's been moved and seconded to have the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion, Alderman Heidemann. Our discussion now since the process of on this body decided that they wanted to save the shanty, we got to find out what's all involved and get a cost effective cost of what it was going to cost to save that shanty. So this is the starting process and this will come back to the public works. Thank you. Any other discussion? Alderman Donahue. Thank you. I'm going to support this resolution. My concern is, as you read through it, you realize that it is an extremely detailed plan request for proposal for a detailed overhaul and reconstruction of the shanty. Now, the detail is exquisite. It is probably necessary. My concern is that in some fashion or another, this request for proposal by the nature of its substantial detail will discourage or somehow derail any other development efforts that might be happening with the shanty. Now, the reason I'll support it, however, is my understanding that if there are requests for proposal that actually do meet all of the details of this particular resolution that will go back to public works. If there's not, that will also go back to public works. In other words, by passing this, we are not closing the door on those folks who may be interested in preserving the shanty and who come up with an alternate plan that may not necessarily meet with the detail of the RFP. So it has my support, but with that understanding. Thank you. Alderman Bourne. Thank you, Mayor Van Akron. I understand from the last council meeting that there's a redevelopment authority meeting coming up. Is it the 18th of this month? How is that meeting? Is this fish shanty thing going to be on that agenda? Are there going to be any proposals coming forward from the private sector other than the original one we had where the person wanted to invest $200,000? Then Mr. Dolson had a supposed businessman who was interested in coming forth and restoring this. Where does this redevelopment authority meeting coming up in a few days fit into this equation? I don't believe it does figure into the equation because we didn't transfer the property to the redevelopment authority. So it's still under the city council and the city's control. So we'd be looking at proposals, not the redevelopment authority, because we never transferred the property. Correct? That's correct. And there is nothing on the agenda for the October 18th meeting with regard to the shanty. From redevelopment standpoint, redevelopment authority doesn't have any jurisdiction over the shanty issue at this point. Thank you. Any other questions? Any other discussion? Are you none? The clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carries. By through a resolution by 5-2, a resolution by Alderman van de Wille, Madacek Kaaf Lewandowski, authorizing the city attorney to engage in outside legal services regarding the suspension of revocation of a cigarette tobacco license number 14-6. Alderman van de Wille. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move to suspend the rules. Second. It's been moved and seconded to suspend the rules. Discussion under the suspension. Who seconded it? I'm sorry. We'll first vote on the suspension of the rules. Thank you. 13 ayes, 2 noes. Rules are suspended. Alderman van de Wille. I move to put the resolution upon its passage. Second. It's been moved and seconded to have the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion, Alderman van de Wille. A little bit of history here. This has come before the committee or council before. I'm going to go back to the beginning. On August 14th, the committee was advised by Sergeant Zempel that tidy car had sold tobacco to a minor through the WINS program. It was voted to 4-0 to call the license holder into law licensing. On August 28th, Joseph Jantz appeared before the committee. There was quite a bit of discussion. The first motion was made by Alderman Lassard and seconded by Maddachek to issue a warning. After discussion, the motion was withdrawn. Then Alderman Maddachek moved to suspend for five days and it failed for a second. Alderman Lassard and van de Wille moved to issue a warning and there was 2 ayes and 2 noes so the motion failed. After more discussion, Alderman Lewandowski and Maddachek requested a 15-day suspension, which was later amended for 10 days and it was approved 3-1. On September 11th, Joseph Jantz denied the offer to close for 10 days and requested a quasi-judicial hearing. On September 17th, council denied funding for the representation of the committee for the quasi-judicial hearing. For the October 9th, 2012 meeting, I asked that the motion to rescind be placed on the agenda. At that meeting, I made a motion to rescind the motion from August 28th, 2012 and the motion died for lack of a second. Based on that, we have to have a quasi-judicial hearing. We have no choice. We've done all that we can to avoid it based on the council denying funding last time. So we submitted another document and we're not asking the council if they agree with what we're doing with having the quasi. There is no agreeing with that right now. All we're asking is that the five of us who are on the committee have representation when we are doing this judicial hearing. Thank you. Alderman Raceland. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I supported this last time and I think Alderman Donahue elegantly spoke on it and basically said we need to have some representation for this hearing. We're kind of putting ourselves out there as a city as a whole if we're not going to provide this committee with the ability to succeed. So I'll support it again. Thank you. I remember everybody that this hearing will be not just the committee, but the 16 of you will be... Well, I'm sorry, just the committee and that they will need then somebody because Steve will be acting as the prosecutor. Steve, maybe you can explain a little more. Our office and it would be Assistant City Attorney Adams would be presenting the case for the recommendation of the Law and Licensing Committee suspension of the license and the outside council would be representing the Law and Licensing Committee members who are acting basically as the judge at that hearing and providing legal assistance to that committee in during the proceeding. The committee would hold the hearing develop, come up with the recommendation, develop findings of fact and conclusions of law and those would be presented to the council as a recommendation and then the council would act on basically the written findings of fact conclusions of law that had been presented by the Law and Licensing Committee during the question judicial hearing. Steve, I know you can't give an exact number but approximately what kind of dollars are we talking about? You know, it's impossible to say with any precision but typically it's been a couple hundred dollars is what it's run. Typically we've hired Joe Volkner from the Olsen-Cloet firm and you know what it would depend on the amount of time that the hearing took. He basically charges, can't quote his fee, $180 an hour or something like that but basically it's the time he would devote to the hearing. I don't think that there's a lot of prep time that he will need to do or anything like that and our office would do most of the legwork as far as the findings of fact conclusions of law and that sort of thing so it's a matter of just being present at the hearing. Thank you. Any other discussion? Hearing none, quick. Alderman Bellinger. Thank you, Mayor. Just a question for Steve. If this doesn't pass, this hearing still takes place without representation. Is that correct? I mean if or does the hearing not take place? If it doesn't pass. Well that's the issue we had last time. I guess that'll be up to the Law and Licensing Committee but I would assume that they would hold the hearing and go without legal representation as far as hearing the case. It raises concerns about if there are any objections made during the hearing as far as evidentiary sorts of issues, whether witnesses were subpoenaed, if somebody was requesting subpoenaed witnesses, things like that that would go unaddressed but I would assume that the committee would proceed with the hearing in any event. Any other questions? Alderman Bellinger? Alderman Vandenewilie. We would have to go continue with the quasi-judicial hearing because I did have the motion or tried to have the motion to rescind. When I made the motion I needed one of the other two who voted for the quasi to second and either one of them that did so we could do the same thing over again but really we need to just go on with this quasi regardless of whether we have representation or not. Alderman Raceler. Thank you Mr. Matt. Just trying to help Alderman Heidemann who doesn't know how to use the buttons. His button's not working. Thank you. We turned it off on purpose. Thank you very much. Again I'm not going to support this. I do compliment the chairman of the committee for offering up an opportunity for this process to go away but not getting a second from two Alderman. Evidently they've got something that for some reason didn't understand that when the council last time did not want to fund the quasi-judicial the attorney said hey maybe this is the right place right way to go. Give this gentleman a warning and get it over with. They could have easily done that at that committee but they just decided not to and again I don't see spending 200 or $300 on representation to give the try to pull some of these license that the actual clerk only got a warning and then they want to hang the business owner. Alderman Donahue. Well I appreciate the procedural review. This is actually appears to have gotten it to be a fairly complicated matter. I'm speaking up just because this is what my mom would call penny wise and pound foolish. We are proposing to take away livelihood from the business owner. We can do that but that business owner is entitled to due process of law. Now I have acted as such a hearing officer in other hearings and other galaxies and I can tell you that the services rendered are important. Number one the hearing officer assists the committee in making sure that proper evidence is admitted and improper evidence is excluded. It makes sure that the committee is focused and directed when it is making its decision. It advises the committee if it has a tendency to consider factors that a circuit court or the court of appeals or the Wisconsin Supreme Court would consider improper. It advises the committee to avoid those kinds of considerations. We just need to do this. We have a structure in place. This would be like saying you know that speeding ticket, you know the officer was really right and let's have a hearing and let's just invite a couple of people in municipal court. Let's invite the Alderman in to make that decision and not have a judge make that decision. It's just not proper. This is something we have to do. Now what if we don't do it and the committee goes ahead? God willing in the creeks don't rise. Everything goes well. A good decision is made and things are processed and you know whatever happens will happen. If things don't go well, $200 will seem like a blessing compared to the attorney fees that the city will expend defending itself at the circuit court level and or the court of appeals unlikely the Wisconsin Supreme Court. But let me just say it because I'm a little excited about this. I really think that this is something that we need to approve. It is just what makes this a democracy and a judicial system, a quasi judicial system which is fair and impartial and that our citizens can rely on. Thank you Alderman Donahue. Any other discussion? Alderman LaSard. Thank you mayor. I sit on this committee and I was not in favor of taking this man's license away for 10 days but I'm also not in favor of having this procedure happen without legal advice. So I would like to ask you all to support the funding we need so we can get the facts on the table and do it in a proper manner with legal counsel. Thank you. Thank you Alderman LaSard. Any other discussion? Hearing none clerk will call the roll. Ten eyes, five noes. Motion carries. Five three, five four and five five will lie over. Five six and five seven will be referred. Six one report a committee from salarium grievance recommending the current job current chief administrator's officers job description be approved. Alderman Raichler. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I move that the our report of committee be accepted and adopted. Second. It's been moved and seconded that the RO be accepted and adopted. Alderman Vaughn. Thank you Mayor Van Akron. When I read over this document, this job description, I read it over very closely and I found one thing that I thought was a little inconsistent. It may be but what I'm going to recommend just follows with the rest of the document in here. The majority of the document says for example under number two common counsel with the input of the mayor. Then when you go to the chief administrator of the officer's supervisory responsibilities, that first sentence says carries out supervisory responsibilities in accordance with the city policies and equitable laws. Responsibilities include hiring of employees, planning and directing work in consultation with the mayor. I would like to make a motion to strike in consultation with the mayor and put in there with input from the mayor. This just follows along with the language from the rest of the document and makes it consistent throughout. So I'd like to make that motion. I'll second. So move seconded to amend the document to have input from the mayor instead of whatever the current is. With input strike in consultation with the mayor and put in with input from the mayor. Does everybody understand the amendment? We'll vote on the amendment first. Clerk will call the roll. 13 ayes, 2 noes. Motion carries. Now back to the original as amended. I'm sorry. Clerk will call the roll. 14 ayes, 1 noes. Motion carries. 62 from law and licensing recommending taxi driver license number 9491 be denied based upon her record. Alderman Vanda-Willie. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move the second. Second. Move seconded that the RC be accepted and adopted under discussion. Is Regina Ramirez here this evening? She is here. She revealed all of her convictions to the committee. The committee was concerned about a 2011 inattentive driving after Regina had told us a little bit more as to what happened. There was an accident that occurred due to a flashback she was having from a previous accident. And it was severe enough that her car was completely total. There was also concern for 2012 noise disturbance and disorderly conduct. It happened at the same time. It was between her and the downstairs neighbor. And the police had concerns overall about maybe her recollection of the events as to it didn't go along with their normal procedure. The applicant would like to address the council. Can you give your name and address for the place? Regina Ramirez, 1218 Superior Avenue. Thank you. I was just letting the council know to re look at my case or open up and actually see what really happened. I'm not sure exactly what they're saying happened because I didn't go into my record. I don't know what the police said. I haven't went back that far. I did have an accident and I told them, you know, what happened? It was not a child that was coming out. It was a bush that was underneath my car and it was an accident. It was, I believe in 2011, I believe, and a little boy shot out darted out between two cars. I stopped but the little boy still hit my car and it really scared me. I kind of went into shock and I was afraid to drive. And because I was afraid to drive, I put myself and went to the doctor and said, you know what? I'm scared. And they said, what are you scared of? I said, I'm scared to drive. And she said, what do you mean? I said, when I get into the car, I get panicky. I'm scared. I start shaking. And she said it was anxiety. So she's referred me to Winnebago Mental Health Clinic. I took the precautions that I had to. I completed everything I had to. They took me off everything I had to do and proceeded with everything they told me to do. This was more than what this is 2012 or this was in 2011. So it's over a year and a half ago. This happened in June with the little boy. In August, I still wasn't driving. I was scared. Soon as I saw like little bush like running underneath the I didn't know was a bush. I saw something coming out. I hit the brakes. There was water. I slipped. I lost control of my vehicle. I did. It was an accident. Everybody could have an accident. There was a tree bush underneath my vehicle. You know, everybody could have an accident. So I'm hoping you guys will reconsider and look at my case, go through it if you have to thoroughly and make a decision. I'm hoping that you guys do that. And I would like my license back. I've been driving for about three months. Well, I've been driving with the taxi company for three months. I've been driving myself for six months. Never had an accident. I'm more precautious now. I'm very, very aware of when I see little kids, I do not like to go by the schools because I'm afraid of that happening. But anybody would be if that would happen to you because he was a little child. You know, he was like nobody would have saw him. It was two cars. It was an accident. I was in the newspaper. It was at a church. We were coming out of church. Stuff happens. We just don't know why it happens to good people. I have no record. Nothing at all. I did have a disorderly conduct. I do. But unfortunately, I have bad people that I had an ex boyfriend that has a very mean ex girlfriend and their mother and that's who lived underneath me. So I'm cursed with an ex boyfriend that had a mean mother. So I broke up with him and now I have no problems. It's over. Any questions of the applicant? Questions of the applicant? Alderman Bourne. No one out of the applicant. Oh, okay. Any questions of the applicant? Alderman Vandewilm. Thank you. Could you tell us a little bit about the noisy disturbance and disorderly conduct that occurred in 2012? Yes. I used to work for a little boy for Sheboygan County Health and Human Services. I can't give him his last name, but I can give you his first name. His name was Jerry. He is like, he can't walk very well. Well, he got up to go to the restroom. I told the police this. I told him to come upstairs. He didn't want to come upstairs. They called the police because there was stomping. He stomped up. He got up and stomped all the way to the bathroom. Well, my next-door neighbor, well, my downstairs neighbor, which is my ex-boyfriend's mother-in-law, ex-now, called the police and said we were stomping around. And I told him, come up. And I said, I was going to take it to court, but she went, she moved to Iowa. So I wasn't able even to take it to court. So I just paid my ticket and did what I had to do. But I have paperwork on him where he, you know, I take him to the doctor and everything. He was living with me for over six months. Alder and Vanderbilt. You'd also received a sorely conduct that same evening? Yeah, it was her daughter. Her daughter came screaming, trying to push into my house, calling me all names. I pushed the door and I slammed the door and it hit her on her face as she was screaming at me. I'm not going to let someone come into my house, especially her daughter. She don't even live there. It wasn't even the lady that lives downstairs. It was her daughter. Any other questions of the applicant? Any other questions? Thank you. Alderman Bourne. Thank you, Mayor. Chairman Vanderbilt, what was the vote of the committee and did you get any recommendation from the police department on this? The committee denied her request for a license five to zero. And the police department, what he had told us was to get a disorderly conduct. Typically there'd be more to it than just slamming the door as well as the noise disturbance. So he was without having the police report in front of him, he was just said it didn't sound completely like the full story. Any other questions? Any other discussion? Alderman Donahue. Just a point of information. At what point could an applicant make a new application for a license if she's denied? Anytime. Anytime? And is there a typical rule of thumb about how long a person needs to wait in order for an application to be favorably considered? A year. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, clerk will call the roll. 11 ayes, 4 noes. Motion carries. 6-3 reported committee from finance recommending establishing policy for fund balances for self-insurance health insurance fund and self-insurance worker compensation on Alderman Ammon. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move to accept and adopt and pass the resolution. It's been moved and seconded to accept and adopt and pass the resolution. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carried. 7-1 ordinance amending various sections of the municipal court will lie over. 8-1, an aro for the city plan commission recommending approval of changing of zoning map for property located at 2013 south 13th street. Alderman Hammon. Thank you, Mary. I move that the aro be accepted and adopted and pass the ordinance. It's been moved and seconded that the aro be accepted and adopted and pass the resolution. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carried. 8-2 resolution by Alderman Hammon approving the sale of certain redevelopment authority property at Alderman Hammon. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that we pass the resolution. It's been moved and seconded that the resolution be put upon its passage. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, clerk will call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion carried. 8-3 resolution from Alderman Hammon amending resolution 3-14, 35-12-13 by Alderman Heidemann passed on July 16th, 2012. Alderman Hammon. Actually, it's Alderman Heidemann. I'm sorry, Alderman Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Second. It's been moved and seconded that the resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion, Alderman Heidemann. Back in July, we passed this resolution and since then there's been an addition of $5,000, so we need to repass the resolution. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, clerk will call the roll. Motion carried. 9-1 under other matters will be referred to finance under other matters city attorney. 9.2 is an RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30, 2013 and June 30, 2014. I will go to law and licensing. 9.3 is an RO by the purchasing agent submitting a recommendation for award of bid number 1734-12 for the purchase of three vehicles for the transit department. That will go to finance. 9.4 is a resolution authorizing the purchasing agent to enter into contract for the purchase of those three vehicles for the transit department. That will go to finance. 9.5 is a resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute an application for an aquatic invasive species control grant for the city. Grant is between the Department of Natural Resources and the city. Up to $20,000 for the implementation of invasive species control near North Point Park. Public works. 9.6 is a resolution authorizing the transfer of appropriations in the 2012 budget. Finance. 9.7 is an RO by the city clerk submitting a notice of claim from Caster law offices on behalf of their client Sandra Bear. That will also go to finance. 10-1. Motion to go into closed session. Alderman Handman. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Move to convene in closed session or the exemption provided in section 19.851 E Wisconsin Statutes for the purpose of discussion and formulation of negotiation strategies relative to possible agreement for combining emergency dispatch services where competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session. Second. It moves and seconded to go into closed session. Clerk will call the roll. 14 ayes one no. We will go into we will take a five-minute break and go into closed session. We will not come back to the open session.