 All right, I'll assume we're live. I'm not gonna ever look at this again I think I fixed the bus issue a couple of streams ago We had some us we had an issue where the bus was doubling my voice So if I got above a certain line the two buses would actually overload the power circuitry on the mixer That's accident and cause distortion bus accident Chris Cross I Was listening to Chris Cross the other day then Spotify because I can say actually I just have a bunch of their music on my PC Cuz I ripped my I ripped every CD I owned from high school. I did not own that CD So that was fourth grade not high school Yeah I still had the CD when I got to high school and then high school High school is when I got a computer and I ripped everything. I don't think I had CDs till like seventh or eighth grade Oh, I had a walkman and a CD stereo way early Actually, my family. I remember we got a rack mount CD to put into the hi-fi system I mean we had the the five CD change or whatever, but that now we had this giant rack mount thing that would play one CD Yeah, I've seen those that was that was a big investment. We had the five diss The first CD I ever bought when we got the thing was a Vince Geraldi like piano thing Do-do-do it was all the peanuts music All right, I think we're good to go Spotlights too bright, but whatever I can't fix that We already got someone watching. Okay go away There's probably a twitch channel that is more entertaining than this. I discovered a really good twitch channel today. Oh, there was the the You know, there's that there's that occasional video like I have funny Hearthstone convalesion Yeah, so at the very first video of it was this dude who somehow by luck in arena got like like a zillion lich kings He just kept showing you somehow got super lucky and he shuffled all these lich kings into his death It was so great So I realized I'm like hey I never seen that guy usually it's all people you know like the top streamer people Yeah, but I'm like I never seen that guy before right his name was like a chef Chef or something like that So today I went to go check out his channel and he was actually ridiculously good at Hearthstone ridiculously good at streaming to like he was he was like, you know Articulately explaining all his moves and he was making good moves and he was playing he was playing around plays that I would not see That's rare and you only had and you only had like nine viewers and I'm like what the fuck Yeah, it's hard to be bad. I just got only got nine viewers. Yeah So I started watching him and then he went to go eat dinner and then when he came back He played fortnight, so I didn't watch that But I'm sure he'll play Hearthstone again I was watching a few pub G streams a while ago good pub G streams are real fun to watch Not like ours. We're just dying alone in a tower It's not sitting there five minutes and then it's me meeting no one running around and hiding for And then dying yep Or if I'm in a squad suddenly not seeing who killed me in a squad firing nope Collecting a bunch of guns and upgrading them and firing not even one bullet. Oh my god so before we start the show I was playing with a bunch of other friends like Alan and them and We landed you know that big ruin on the one map like the big Aztec looking ruins or whatever So we landed there and no one else landed there. Okay, so there are so we all had like level three armor We had we were like max kitted out We looted this place for like minutes and the circle like it stayed in the circle for a while Mm-hmm, and we spent so much time looting and like oh like we did we're so excited and then just suddenly one by one We all got snipe from the distance and that was it. Yeah, we never encountered anyone to really fight nope All right gun collector the game It's Tuesday October 9th 2018 I'm rim. I'm Scott and this is geek nights tonight the 40 games you must play the crab people We got to do the work for the panel anyway, so because we're probably doing it a magfest So all I want to say is that I've said this a lot lately, but 35 ain't 25 It's I think isn't 39 ain't 29. You know what? 30 30 anything ain't 20 anything So I got my first like legit sports injury that wasn't me hurting myself in an accident And basically I have I probably have planar Poseidon basically the tendon on the bottom of my foot is angry at me A lot of people have that Yeah, and you know what causes it the main things that cause it are being really obese Because like the weight will just mess up your being a professional athlete. Yep, or Overtraining and I thought to myself because I went to the doctor and they were like have you been exercising more than usual? And I thought back and yeah, I ran a half marathon literally every weekend for over a month And the doctor was like, yeah, it'll do it So I can still I can continue to exercise like that But I got it basically what I'm doing is when I'm doing a really long run like 10 miles 20 miles or whatever I Get sloppy toward the end of it because I'm tired And I got to either stop before I get sloppy or I got a run better when I'm tired And it'll probably go away Yeah, you know a lot of pro athletes have had that you let Manning had it Yeah hockey players had it lots of people get it because it's really common is caused by Overtraining usually don't do that so either being really really really athletic or not at all athletic And if you're not in one of those two classes, it's really hard to get it So yeah, let's get right in you got any news any gig bites any stuff on this Tuesday gaming. Yes There was this game called interplanetary, which is a game name so generic You can't imagine it hadn't been used yet But it hasn't for at least not for a video game that I know of and it was on steam for $4 this weekend Sadly, it's now $15. So what this game is is actually so shockingly simple And but I'm surprised it's never been done before right alright, so I don't I mean It's worth about $4 I would be sad if I paid the 15, but here's how the game works You're ready you get a planet around a solar system All right enemies also have planets around the solar system Or on your planet you build stuff and you have to build like everything has to be touching a power plant And you have these cities you try to defend Everything has a circular radius and you have multiple cities And you know and you know you build things like mines to get resources power plants to get energy You know intelligence counterintelligence buildings, and then you build weapons right and then it's turn-based But everyone takes their turn simultaneously Everyone's building then everyone fires and then once everyone's ready all the guns fire and they fire like fucking scorched earth but is Not like scorched earth because you're on a planet that's moving and There's gravity and so you fire stuff off and and then it circles There's a star And this planets that have gravity and you adjust you know the and the other thing is like your planet is a sphere Like what if your gun is on that your planet spins in wherever the planets stop? That's where you're firing from so you might not be able to aim your gun on You might need you guns on both sides of your planet so you can shoot in the different Directions this looks pretty up my alley actually the only other thing that's in the game Basically is like it's basically that plus a tech tree So it's like every turn you sort of have to decide like am I gonna spend my energy and my re and my Resources that I have my materials that I mind up out of my planet Am I gonna spend them on like building a missile and firing it? Am I gonna spend it on building new buildings? And then I'm gonna spend it on you know right and every turn your energy you get x energy per turn your energy output is per turn and if you don't use it you lose it and your Your materials is sort of you can you can stockpile them right the other thing about the game This is like really the whole game besides this giant tech tree It's just a giant tech tree where you get better stuff like better, you know weapons Yeah, you know is that a is a little bit of XCOM because you had you build defensive buildings I didn't learn this till after many turns Use all your energy firing all your weapons your defenses need use energy every time they block something So you have to just save unused energy at the end of your turn. So your defenses actually do something Like block things that land a turn based real-time turn based term based you spend your turn You know spending resources on your planet Then you line up all your shots And then you push and turn and then all the shots from all the planets fire at the same time And then you take another because I see it has hot seed This is actually that could be an okay game to play like late at night Seat would be intolerable because it would take if you're played to four players like four times as long If everyone had a copy so at four dollars not bad You got to learn the tech tree also aiming as a huge pan in the ass. It's like super like prediction skill based Aiming until I guess you get more advanced weapons that don't need as much skill But that's probably good because get like scorched the problem It gives you this red line that shows you like your predicted trajectory Yeah, but that's based on where the planets are now It doesn't give you any hints about where the planets are gonna be and you can sort of be like well This shot is gonna take this long to get there And so it's like if your shot is going slow and taking a long route the other planet's gonna move a lot If I guys right next to you right and then the turns end actually like once everyone fires all the planets start moving and They don't stop for the next turn Until all the shots stop moving or there's none left Fire like one shot with a super long trajectory if you want the planets to move a lot before the next turn right this things like that going on but If you like scorched earth, but wish it was way harder and had a tech tree And you want to spend $15 or wait for it to be $4 again Interplanetary is on steam You know not not a total bad game, you know, it's a little it's not super polished But it's definitely unique and scratches itches that some other games aren't scratching You know what though? It also gives me an idea. We I feel like we should stream some versus scorched earth Funky I will I will Merv you Next Tuesday well, we'd have to play both low-tech and high-tech Because low-tech and high-tech are very different experiences in scorch. Yeah, I have a floppy disc with it I get scorched earth to run. I will figure out I am confident I can get scorched earth to run in Doshbox All right, and forget it get it going and I'll get it going. We'll make this happen. This will be a good winter project Okay, so in another geek bite because there's no way to do a whole show on this But Scott at PAX kept trying to get me to play this trick-taking who so who owned it? I forget who told me about it, but I think Rowan Jeremy had the game But anyway, someone was someone told me about I forget who was and they're like you got to play this game It's two-player trick-taking game. So I played it once and I was like oh rims got played his game Yep, it's a two-player trick-taking and I was busy and you kept bothering me and then finally had I was like rim play this game It's like gonna be your favorite game and he's like no I don't want to I'm like what's wrong with you I was busy but I was right though You were right because we finally sit down to play it now first off It is a the important part is it is a two-player only two-player trick-taking game Yep, that works. Is it the only two-player trick-taking that works? I know of other two-player trick-taking games, but they do not work But it is a two-player trick-taking game that works with like Trump and like that's a full-on trick-taking game It's fun. It's enjoyable and more importantly Playing it once. I basically got a perfect score Like I've got maximum score and Scott got minimum score And it wasn't that much. It wasn't that bad. It was I got a perfect I literally got like perfect score maximum points every single round. You know what I didn't get I didn't get all the sevens every single you just got very good score. I got no I got you know There's the score thing. I got the maximum points from that chart every single round of the entire game I took pictures of it on my phone But here's the deal here's the interesting thing about it the suits like the cards of different face values Have different powers, but there's some metrics. You know and to You get I'll read this if you take zero to three tricks You get six points because you are humble. That's pretty good if you take Seven to nine tricks you are victorious and you get six points If you take ten or more tricks you get nothing because you're greedy What about four to seven you get like one two three if you take in the middle so basically you want to take most but not all of the tricks or almost no tricks and You don't have to commit to either one of those you just got to play against the other person who has the exact same Scoring metric right there's basically you have an odd number of cards in your hand. It's like what 13? Yeah, I forget how many you draw. It's 11. I played it once and got a perfect score What do you want? The point is you have an odd number of cards in your hand So does your opponent you're gonna play all the cards in some order your opponent is gonna play those cards in a certain order That's the whole game and you can't possibly take the same number of tricks So someone is gonna get more points than the other person so games like moo and wizard like all these other trick Taking games scratch very different about all the combinations of two numbers that you know add up to the total right? It's like well if I get zero which is great They get 13 which is great for you right which is bad It's like it's like if I take one that's good for me and that means they take 12 Which is bad for that and so on it's like every possible combination of two numbers that add up to the total number of tricks One player scores well and one player scores badly There is no way for both people to score kind of man Yep, and the last piece the odd numbered cards the face values all have powers There aren't that many I'll just read them to you because that really that's the game like seven is the crazy Yeah, so like one swan if you play a one and lose the trick you get to lead the next trick anyway That is way more powerful than people might think. Oh, yeah The three the Fox when you play this you may exchange the decree card. So like the trump card From a card with a card in your hand, which means not only did you change what Trump is But now you took that card into your hand. Yep, right? The woodcutter when you play this draw one card then discard any one card face down at the bottom of the deck So swap cards Sevens I'll save to last because they're great Nine the witch when determining the winner of a trick with only one nine treat the nine as if it were Trump So nine can just be like yeah, I'm Trump now. Yes, you have a nine. That's not Trump You play it. It's now Trump unless the other person also plays their nine Which happened a lot and then yep their nines are just normal lines the 11 When you lead this if your opponent has a card of this suit They must play either the one of this suit or their highest ranked card of that suit That you can see already like hopefully they don't cheat but yeah, the 11 like forces them to like either lose a strong card or Use lose their one You know what you can see like these combined They scratch the same itches that like heart scratches when I play hearts with smart people But the seven after each trick the winner of the trick receives one point for each seven in the trick, right? So basically if you play your seven the other person just gonna play a stronger card and take it Yeah, get a point if you play a card less than seven the other person can just play their seven and take the Whole trick if they if you're right So if you're leading until the sevens are out you basically can't lead anything under seven Because the other person will just you play a seven and take So you're in this really interesting situation But the thing is like you want to use those powers on those cards that are under seven the one three and the five But you can't use those powers and of course you'll lose a point Because the other person was blue out the seven and score which is those points are a big deal So it has a like like it feels a lot like playing hearts like that's the kind of trick-taking game It feels like in my brain. Yeah, but I mean when you play the game It sort of has these two phases like the first phase of like, you know where you're dancing around the seven Yeah Once the sevens come out because someone's either forced to make a bad play or someone just makes a good play Yeah, then the rest of the hand is like oh everything comes out now Like someone changes Trump because they think they're gonna take a bunch of tricks But then you know a strategy and you end up making them take all the tricks Uh-uh But the fact that you can go low or high because that's the real dance You don't know if your opponent is trying to take a lot of tricks or not. Yeah, it's like okay I take three tricks and it's like all right take a fourth trick It's like all right well I'm well on my way to getting the good number. Yep, you know like eight tricks or whatever the good number is No, but then it's like why now I only have crappy cars left guess what you're taking them now you you you you you You and I cannot stress enough how thoroughly I crushed Scott in the one time I played this game You got it I mean, I didn't win but the crushing was slightly less than you claim Thing is this this game the other thing is that in order to be good at this game You have to be willing to put in the effort to count the cards and yeah, I kept a full count in my head Which was I was I don't put in that effort in any game cuz I'm lazy Well thinking you know probably be fine this particular kind of trick-taking game is a lot like advanced wars Like it's the narrow set of games that I Will go to that effort for Like I won't do that in other games like I am not Counting every single point everyone took when I play T&E or y&y as much as I want to I'm not gonna I don't remember. What's in the Castile have to time it out? I just I just remember like a feel like I'm like every time the Castile goes I'm like all right with you know, that's like one time two Times like uh-oh a lot of people went in the Castile this around oh someone went in there twice in the same Right is I'll just sort of get a feel for like is it a big or is it small? I will count all the cubes so in other news packs unplugged is actually coming up isn't this met a moment now I'm not I'm just saying packs unplugged is coming up in the news Okay, if you're not aware it is the tabletop specific packs. It's all full-on 100% regular old packs the schedule is live. There's a main theater like there's panel rooms There's tabletop free play obviously. There's RPG. There's the Pokemon like tournament league But they play the CCG instead of the GB the Gameboy games It's a real pack a 3DS game. Yeah, but it's coming up November 30th And because it's bigger now you can totally just buy badges like it's all packs That's not sold out you can just get a badge and get a hotel And if you live near if you live live within a couple hours of Philly, which a huge percentage of all Americans do It's actually really easy to get to So in 51 days 16 hours 44 minutes in one second. We hope to see you there But anyway things of the day. So what do you got? Is it just a photo an old-timey photo of this photo? It's real good supposedly from Russia or something. Well, so uh, yes imperial Russia, right? So the time of the czars Oh, that guy has my mustache. Anyway, the guy third photo right in the photo. There are some train tracks and A gentleman and some other people bunch of gendarmes some of them have plumes. Yeah, usually as in gendarmes French people It's the did you read it says special core of the gendarme. All right Anyway, so usually you imagine, you know train tracks the vehicles that go on train tracks are trains Yeah, also hand cars like the old-timey things you see like when there's mining where they push to people Yep, you guys go dip dip dip they push the thing up and down right to make the thing go I really like those things for some inexplicable reason. I like them too I think is there they were featured a lot in old cartoons. Oh, yeah So like you they just like they felt like common knowledge. You see I saw them in like Western movies and duck tails Yep, so if you were if you were a six-year-old you just saw hand cars all the time also looney tunes. Anyway The point is this guy instead of using a hand car. He's got a foot car It's a penny farthing bicycle, but instead of tires The it's basically train wheels a big one and a tiny one and then to keep it upright There is sort of this tripod mechanism with a tiny wheel leaning on the second rail And that basically keeps the bike fully upright even though it's centered on one rail It's leaning on the other rail sort of like a sidecar on a motorcycle And this looks way fun. I imagine you just pedal this you can't really fall off The hard part is getting up and down onto it, but once you start pedaling It's probably like all right you fucking go you don't need to stop for anything There isn't gonna be a train coming. I mean it seems fucking awesome It's a good way to get around if you gotta get around for some reason like if these existed It's like was it the only one that existed how come we didn't see these more. It's like what's what's the deal? I don't know a lot about the history of our cars like so well-known But these are not known other than that I do know there is to this day a modern hand car enthusiast community of people who build their own and Ride them on abandoned train tracks, and I kind of want to do it I want to do it That's the thing I want to do one time, but not make into a permanent. Yeah Yeah, I feel like the way to do it is to go between be like that long train that goes across all I'm sure the best way to do it would be to find a hand car enthusiast who knows where to go. Yeah Joy, there's got to be a reddit about it. So my thing today is you guys know What am I one of my favorite things like one of my hobbies is just knowing about the idea of sovereign citizens Like those people who are not driving but traveling and if there's a gold fringe on the flag Then they don't have to pay taxes because reasons and there's a whole like thing about them But this video is actually really fascinating because this is a sovereign citizen dude in a courtroom Trying to argue that he doesn't have to pay like he doesn't have to go to jail for his DUI but the judge is a judge who has dealt with these people a lot and He doesn't yell he doesn't freak out. He doesn't just have the guy tased or like a room in the courtroom He logically like he he listens to the crazy coming out of the guy's mouth and he responds to it directly and earnestly and the sovereign citizen guy doesn't know what to do Because he's like I am not the person John Doe. I am the I am the Entity John Doe what like all his sovereign citizen nonsense and the judge is like well Will the entity blah blah blah tell the person John Doe that they are guilty of DUI and Watching this guy like I almost have this realization that he can't actually respond to another human being Who actually addresses the words that came out of his mouth is? Fascinating mm-hmm like it's the most respect. It's the best way to handle someone like that Someone's crazy, and you're willing to Address them from the logic of their own crazy It's a highly effective way to talk to crazy people, but it's very very difficult to do I got a new plan Don't talk to crazy. Yeah, but if you're gonna talk to crazy Well sovereign citizen crazy people the specific brand of crazy if I was if they eat that sovereign citizen came to judge Scott's courtroom I'd be like bailiff This is one for you. You're back into don't taste me bro So in the meta moment we are going to be at packs unplugged doing not one but two events We're gonna be doing another learn and win session this time instead of carcassone. We're doing Puerto Rico We're gonna teach everyone how to play Puerto Rico Then we're gonna teach you like legit how to be great at Puerto Rico, and then we're all gonna play a game of Puerto Rico Everyone in the room It's gonna be a really good time and we're doing a tightened up version of the 40 tabletop games You must play and I'm gonna up the difficulty level a little bit for it because it's packs unplugged It's a tabletop audience. So there's some low hanging fruit. There's no point in telling these people about I got to up it a Little bit get a little more secure a little more weird. It's gonna be a good time Otherwise, we're gonna be a packs unplugged just playing games like the whole weekend is gonna be great Mm-hmm if you enjoy our anime stuff, you may notice that we uploaded finally we did the fall 2018 season of anime we reviewed every anime that has not yet come out or is coming out just now in Fall it was somehow managed to keep this show going for a whole year. It feels like we just like started Yeah, but no way I like we managed to keep the show going So if you want to know our complete guesses about what the net the current season of anime is gonna be like and which shows To watch or not watch then you can watch this video and then tell us how wrong we are Link to it how shockingly right we are because anime are very transparent And I'll link to it because if you really want the full gig night's experience You have to subscribe to both me and Scott on YouTube because a lot of our panels are on my YouTube channel and the live streams Obviously, you're watching this live stream At least some of you are and we we have a geek night's YouTube channel But we sort of like I can log into it kind of sort of me it's hard Don't worry about the YouTube channel. It's all messed up. Don't don't we were early adopters of YouTube guys And there's there's complications of that. It was g plus's fault really. Yeah, we just don't fix itself now So if you follow us on g plus, I'm not updating it anymore because it's going away you don't say but If you some scott's channel is where judge anime by its cover is but I will link to it here So you can also just go to front row career comm our official website. Yeah, everything is there Everything is there including and you don't have to worry about which channels or anything like that Everything is in one place including the new geek night's book club book, which is 2001 is face odyssey Which I had never actually read. I'd only seen the movie. Yep So the deal is basically you mean you've heard of the famous very important movie, which if you haven't seen it You should watch that too But I had thought for all this time. Oh that movie was based on a book No, that is not correct the correct story of what happened is that Arthur C. Clark and Stanley Kubrick worked together On a screenplay while Arthur C. Clark wrote the novel which came out after the movie And I've never read the novel despite seeing the movie several times So now we're gonna read that novel and maybe we'll see which odyssey rim choose it for the next book club Yep I actually do have something that is reasonably odyssey adjacent does have the word odyssey in the title though No, and it doesn't work, but it is a Dungeons and Dragons book. No I could go do my I mean look off to money crystal. He had quite an odyssey getting home and getting his revenge Spoilers he gets his revenge mostly So, uh, yeah, that is all the meta and we're gonna go to the main bit So good over to my thing is this rims crap people I do So as you know, we've been doing a panel and even though we have new like we have a new panel that we haven't done anywhere yet Called rare game mechanics. We're probably gonna do it at magfest but We've been doing this 40 tablet out games You must play panel a bunch of times because it's really popular and like it's a lot of reasons why people like this kind of panel but The genesis of that was a long time ago We were at some packs was it a Western East? I don't remember and then all these game industry people on stage some of them were smart some of them Not so much so well I'll put some of them were very knowledgeable and some of them were only knowledgeable of games that came out in the Last five years. It's a better way to put it But they were basically having the audience Say a game that they think should be in like the top to hundred or top 50 games of all time And they would take that and put it somewhere in the list and bump something out of the list and like have a whole discussion And it was a pretty interesting we were waiting for our panel to start and it was like five industry people like journalists and Basically, they had an existing list from the last time the panel was run And I think the rule was basically like each person on the panel puts a game on the list It takes a game off the list So it was just sort of like this evolving list of Whatever journalists were on the panel most recently. Yep You know and then like I guess they would have the idea was that they would have the panel again And adjust the list every time and it was it was okay But one person on the panel is really good and every time it came around to them They were like dance dance revolution right every owner's stride Everyone on the panel was basically saying dumb stuff except for the one guy saying smart stuff That's it was the spy party guy. Yep. It was his name Alex something Yeah, anyway, the spy party guy was like, you know, everyone else was putting dumb games up on the list And I guess the spy party guys like dad DDR Me and River like everyone else in the room is silent. It's like what why are those two weirdos cheering? Why are they talking about Ram So we want to do the same panel Originally for all games, but then we've narrowed it to tabletop because tabletops gonna under-represent it still in the broader gaming discourse But we want to do this panel the 40 games you must play which is way harder because that includes table job The problem is there's more than 40 kinds of games. Yep You could never narrow it down that much which means we're just gonna have to make a list of 40 games that are representative of something So to preface this because basically we're doing our homework the kind of research We normally do for a panel as a show to be lazy and do less total work is what's going on here So we're gonna try to make a list today by going back and forth and the important thing is the rules are these a game cannot make This list just because it was the first of something just because it is like Historically important because I think I think what you're trying to do is you're trying to say, okay It was a category of game. Yeah, what is the the the best most important one in that category? Yeah, like is there some or in the very least like we say in the when we do the tabletop version of this panel Is there one or possibly two things we could say about this game that are you that are unique to this list? And that way if someone had we're to play all the games on the list that person would have a very broad and Excellent gaming knowledge and skills in such yep So do you want to go first you want we'll just take turns trying to put things on this list ddr. Did he are all right? So since you said it why It's pretty much I mean and as long as you don't have a disability that rents you from playing ddr Ddr is like the ultimate first best rhythm game I'd argue it was the it was the first so the best rhythm game even though other rhythm games have come I would argue the first well executed full-body rhythm game Right, I mean I mean there were many many rhythm games before that and I has to be fourth mixer later because it wasn't If I don't have her mix wasn't that good guys No Well, I mean even third makes was only a little bit good first and second like if you ever go back and try to play first and second Oh, they're awful the arrows basically don't really go with the music It wasn't until third and really fourth mix that they actually started get the arrows to be on time with the music to have Patterns that match the patterns of the song right so and it and fifth and sixth and seventh I mean they're still good, but they started to add ridiculous Ridiculous crazy stuff that sort of took away from the purity and elegance of Fourth, you know fifth mix a little bit even added the holding arrows and stuff is really fourth mix was the pure elegant and beautiful One and also had the best music Of all of them. It was also one of the first arcade games I really saw you know in the dying days of arcades where it was one of those games that would draw a legit crowd of Spectators there aren't many well now there aren't many arcades, but when there were arcades The only games that your spectators like not like Mortal Kombat like the fighting games because they drew spectators who were waiting their turn to play DDR drew spectators who were not going to play it at any point. They were just watching it Like I don't think there was any good rhythm game before this that used your body No, did I mean, you know arcades are basically dead and DDR is so strong that on its own Basically caused a minor arcade revival that is still Somehow be a little bit stronger than it was after it collapsed. Yep. So it's it's it's that's how powerful DDR is I actually I'm gonna say doom Why wouldn't you say doom because and I don't argue to do because I think doom to actually it's way better level design I think you do want to say doom to you don't want to say doom one Yeah, yeah, so the thing is maybe I'll even break my rule because I did I said I didn't want to the first of anything Wolfenstein 3d was not it was arguably not really the first first person Actually must play Wolfenstein now, but it was but also I don't argue Wolfenstein 3d is a puzzle maze game Yeah, it's mostly head shooting. It's mostly a maze Yeah, it's mostly find your way through the maze that has secret entrances and it has keys and but doom was a puzzle So you just also have to shoot things and not get hurt so that you can live in the maze but doom 2 was the first like real modern FPS and It was the first multiplayer FPS that was good. Yeah, well, I mean doom 2 was like, okay You know, it's still a maze but it's more it was less amazed than Wolfenstein and more shooting Yep, also Wolfenstein walls can only be at 90 degree angles, which really limited the game I know a lot about doom 2's engine. It is Shockingly impressive and this there's so many clones of doom 2 It's so pivotal to gaming and it's still legit fun to do a deathmatch in doom Mm-hmm, but I mean it's also an FPS, but it's sort of hard It's like well, you got to pick just like I don't want to pick more than one 3d FPS Yeah, and it's sort of like well counter-strike is a mod I was gonna say counter-strike if I didn't say doom 2, but it's like or how even half-life 2 single-player Remember, this is the crab people. We're just workshop in the panel. So I understand, you know They're pretty much I think you got to play that because doom is still a 2d FPS, right? I think you got to play at 2.5. Right. You got to play like 2.5d You got to play one of the premier 3d FPS's which is pretty much just like counter-strike and No, there's like counter-strike is quake 3. I would argue counter-strike is fundamentally different because doom Doom was like deathmatch multiplayer Like it had a very there's a lot of things it was doing that were very distinct from what counter-strike did Yeah, counter-strike wasn't really a deathmatch. No doom didn't have teams in the modern sense No, but I'm talking about you have to have the experience of the real 3d FPS True aim with the mouse and move with the WASD Yeah, and also do and it matters doom is so fucking fast All right your turn Super Metroid You could say Symphony of the night, but actually you know, I mean there I think Metroid's a better game and a more replayable game Even though the map may be smaller than Symphony the night I wouldn't say Metroid one because that game is deeply flawed No, like it's it gets good for its time. It's still maybe the best game there is. Yeah, period And also definitely the best Metroidvania and you know Symphony the night is like, okay You could argue that one instead maybe but if the Symphony the night is more like RPG as it has these RPG elements that take away from the Pure and elegant met, you know only Metroid elements of Super Metroid Yeah, doesn't have RPG nonsense like, you know, Symphony the night doesn't think if you simply tonight I think if they took the RPG stuff out, I think it would be maybe better than Super Metroid Yeah, it's not so I really like all those Castlevania level up your sword I mean like both the games are so excellent games, but I'm just like, you know I'm arguing over the tiniest difference between the a-plus-plus and the a-plus game. Yep, right But if you haven't played Super Metroid, you don't know games So now I'm gonna do an easy one. You're not qualified to talk about games I'm gonna say Super Mario Brothers 3 because it is I still think it is like it Redefine what it meant to have a tight platformer like Super Mario Brothers 3 controls are so like I don't it's hard to express Mario 3 and it's like, you know people talk about Mario World Mario World again Mario World is a fantastic game It's another case of a-plus-plus versus a-plus, but it's like Mario 3 is like is the perfect Mario It's like I don't think any Mario since or before has been as good as Mario 3 Like Mario 2 the like the Mario 2 that became the real Mario Doki Doki Panic was a Significant leap from Mario 1 Mario 3 was a significant leap again Mario World was significantly like all those games made radical revolutions to that kind of gaming I think Mario 3 was the biggest jump All right your turn This gets hard Mario Galaxy. Oh, I never actually played it much Well, so I mean basically it's like you could say Mario 64, right? But the problem is Mario 64 has a lot of jankiness, right? Yeah, though I played the re-release on even though Mario 64 was basically the first 3d platformer that was like playable Yeah, you know everyone else had to copy it because all the other ones were just Completely unplayable like complete garbage You know Mario Galaxy, it's like all the you know there was what in between before Galaxy what it was like sunshine there was a I don't remember I like sunshine a lot. Yeah. No all those games are good But Galaxy is still I think maybe the best one I probably gotta play it it doesn't have you know the the kind of nonsense You know it doesn't have any flaws or other weirdness, you know I guess, you know, you could even say Odyssey now, but I think the only reason don't say Odyssey now because maybe it's too soon So I would say speaking of too soon. I am legit gonna say Breath of the Wild Why not and my argument is that? Zell if you're a game designer or like like if you're in like there's reasons why you might want to go play Zelda 1 Zelda 2 Zelda 3 but Not everyone needs that experience I think Breath of the Wild encapsulates the intent of like the original Zelda games with modern execution The only thing you know, it's like Zelda one I look at Zelda one But the problem is my Zelda one experience is tainted because I played it when I was a kid with nothing else to do except bomb every bush Bomb every wall burn every bush right? It's like meanwhile I'm climbing every tree looking for Koroks and shit in Breath of the Wild It's not this brute force of using a blue candle walking off the screen using the blue Well, I just think back so much like Zelda one is a design that like if you Don't cheat and you don't already have everything memorized to play it now Fresh without any guides or anything. That's a that's a tall order It's a tall order for the year 2018 But also you see like what it was trying to do But Breath of the Wild like all the things you read about What because Zelda one was supposed to evoke the feeling of a kid exploring the woods And it does Breath of the Wild does that like Breath of the Wild is the game No one will play it that way in 2018 Breath of the Wild is what Zelda one would have been if modern technology existed back then Like I honestly firmly believe that feels like it gives you that same feeling of Zelda one Like yeah, you walk up to some ruins spooky ruins That's you know that that feeling you get when you're walking around in Breath of the Wild Oh when I went in Breath of the Wild when I went into that haunted forest You see some landmark out there you go out there and inspect it and there's all kinds of you know It's like ooh that feeling it's the same feeling I had when like I discovered the graveyard in Zelda one like Yeah, when I went into the haunted forest in Breath of the Wild and that music gets a little weird and it's dark And it got creepy I got that chill that I haven't felt since I was like seven right only it's playable I'm like, you know Zelda one is only playable for me because I can beat it super fast It got speedrun fast, but still super fast. I'm gonna say it I think I memorized every fucking thing I think Breath of the Wild is the best Zelda game if you take all category all like all attributes into consideration Maybe others are better at different things, but Breath of the Wild is the most holistically good Zelda Are we only doing video games? No any game any game you got to play I was trying to think about what tabletop game what rpg I got this is actually this is way harder than the top 40 tabletop Like way harder I'm trying to think of sports. That's why I was thinking about that too Uh, what is this if you're gonna play a sport, what is the sport you must play tennis? Maybe Like tennis could fit Air hockey I was talking about hockey also air hockey actually jungle speed Uh, I think slalom skiing. I mean, there's definitely a lot bowling There has to be some it's like it's like, yeah, okay. What is you think of a sport you must play It's like, well, yeah, you should play one, but which if you must I know what I'd say because it but it's one of the But it's not my turn. I got one that's really good But it's it's just you know how in the tabletop It's like I could say like oh you got a swim But you learn to swim but that you know, I don't think you have to competitive I never competitively slam would be the thing that takes it into game in sports So I'm going to say something the one I have that it's your turn So I'm not going to say it the one I thought of Is the same bullshit that happens in our 40 tabletop games where here's a great game that you can't play Okay, I got a really good one. All right, but I'm going to say next Vampire tag is like yes, I was I was going to say vampire tag. That's not that's not even close to must play I think it is must play. No, I think it combines. You could just say tag tag is must play I just say you know what I'll say some form of tag You can't grow up into an adult if you haven't played tag Dude, we were at a party a couple years ago where we all started playing these kids started playing tag Have you seen the professional tag? Yeah Make like an obstacle course in a square. Oh my god And they put two people in and one person those maneuvers with the dude who like spin out of the way Is someone's basically parkour the competition. It's how long can you go without getting tagged? Yep It's the combination of endurance and maneuverability. Yeah I don't think you need to play that but you do need to play Tag all right So how can you how can you grow up as a human being if you went sports? And I'm gonna go role playing game if I had to pick one role playing game You know, I don't think for this I don't think I'd say that You don't think you must play dnd I think in the 40 tabletop games dnd is definitely on that list But for games as a whole I would pick a different rpg And I think I might actually on it I'm really torn on this, but I think I'd say burning wheel And my argument is burning you must play burning win. Yeah, because I could take some other indie rpg But burning wheel has like It has a the best balance of meat in a lot of different areas and introduces a wide array of role playing concepts in an interesting form in a way that many indie rpgs are too focused for this kind of list I think the problem is is that it's like, you know, it's there you definitely like there's a category of game And it's like aha You definitely must play a game in this category right like I might say You must play a larp, but it's like well Which larp, you know, how I don't know I'm not super knowledgeable the listeners giving us ideas now Anyway, I'm super not super knowledgeable about larps. I'm only moderately knowledgeable about larps So I don't know which larp is the larp like if you ask me which Metroidvania is the Metroidvania Super Metroid no question, right? But you say which larp is the larp. I don't know But you definitely should play a larp at some point in your life You know, we have that preface when we do the tabletop one. I think I need to change it a little bit I think here like the first or the most important can matter sometimes But I think we want to make a point about for a category. It's almost arbitrary But it's not arbitrary. There is one that is like the definitive one We're just too dumb to know what it is. Yeah, so we say that someone who knows about everything So we say that we're not you gotta play it in the rpg We cannot pick the one like what if someone knew that fps is existed But like they you know, it's like they're like, well, you got to play an fps But I don't know I'm not knowledgeable at fps. How do I know which one's the best one? Maybe the answer is we're gonna unlike the tabletop one. We'll change this panel a lot every time we do it You know what fuck it the way we do it I'm it was my turn. I'm burning wheel. Fuck it. That's the one I put on the list What do you got tetris? The listener suggested tetris literally like a minute ago. Oh, good job listener. Yeah, go I can't argue with it. Your award is you don't have to listen anymore. Go like tetris is foundational The end which tetra now we're not gonna enrich tetris. It doesn't matter which tetris a tetris They're all in the gameboy tetris. Yep. That's the that's the normal That's the main tetris gameboy tetris So I'm gonna go to a hard hard game like trick-taking games. Just talking about that. I think I'm gonna say hearts Hearts good as much as I like wizard and all that stuff like hearts Is really like a distilled trick-taking experience. That is a lot of cultural touchstones Oh, if you're gonna go there, I gotta say and this also covers basically all roll and move games See it was like this, you know, there's move your mice games, right? Yeah, and it's like well You can go to monopoly you could go to candy land, which you don't even make any decisions You can go to uncle wiggly, you know, but you know what the the I can cover all of those And get like two for one by saying you must play backgammon Oh Because backgammon is roll and move but also if you gambling die it's also a game of gambling but also a game of Uh world unity if you travel somewhere where people play backgammon figure out what version they play before you get there Dude, I have all these photos in my flicker of just like old turkish dudes playing it in cafes all over istanbul Yep, that's what i'm saying. Yeah That's it. That's a these games aren't necessarily good. I played backgam with old guys in israel I spent a lot of time as a kid playing backgammon and while that game does not scratch any itches I have as a mod like as a experienced season game design like dude Backgammon is still like i'm glad I spent a lot of time playing backgammon as a kid Oh So we were gotten a tabletop for a while as you go back into a video game or something This gets hard to do in a hurry Like you think it'd be easier to have a much broader pool to drop out of the category and then pick the the premiere ultimate You know game of that category. You know what bionic fucking commando. Are you just picking games you like that's not the all It's not the Rearmed that's not the top game in any category. No, but i'm gonna say rearmed because that's not the top game in any category Now because it's just a platformer. You might be mega man too is the same category and it's way better Name another game in the genre of you can't jump. Here's a grappling arm You're just picking games you like now bionic commando I don't think the original NES game you could skip but rearmed is both this perfect I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm saying it is not the Best game in any category. I'm saying this list has to be arbitrary or there's no way to do it I think everyone should I say the game the category the winner of that category would be Uh a different game with platform. You could even just say the super metro. It just covers that you don't even need No, I'd say they're fundamentally different games because honestly I respect super much or not far enough from each other. I respect super metro I don't like super much. Well, there's something wrong with you But by a commando. Holy fuck. No, just that was mine. I picked it. I can't stop me rims of favorite game list No, it's not i've been Back at hard saying necessarily my favorite game. Anybody got your turn? No, it's not rin just picks rims favorite games got to pick something arbitrary Yeah, no, that's not arbitrary if I say street fighter 2 Oh Straight original or championship edition. It does either one is fine Any anything that says street fighter 2 on it between street fighter 2 that only had eight characters all the way up to Super street fighter 2 turbo any one of those they're all street fighter 2 So why street fighter 2 because street fighter 2 is The main fighting game of all time every fighting game since street fighter 2 Is based on street fighter 2 not bushida blade Bushida blade is not i'm not putting bushida blade on the list even though I like it. Don't worry Right, it's like really you could consider every fighting game after street fighter 2 to just be a sequel to street fighter 2 Every 2d one, right Oh This gets hard i'm gonna maybe i'm gonna go with arcade game that isn't ddr But the there's a lot of arcade games that are Fundamental or important, but they're not actually fun or they live they could not hold up to any modern sensibility at all So it gets hard. It's not it's a game that it's pick a category And it's like I think we gotta get away from category and treat this a little differently No, I think you're just you're just failing. I got plenty I just pick a category and then I know the best game in that category. Yeah best The category of can't jump by on a car That's not there's buying a commando and there's so many categories of game I don't know why you're having a hard time with this All right I'll go back into sports some sort of other sporty thing because tag is pretty fundamental But there are other sport type games like cycling stuff You don't need to ride in a race though Yeah, and say you need to have ridden a bike if if able. Yeah, because we're not we're talking game That's not a game. That's yeah, we're definitely has to be game We're talking about games that have some form of competition. You know what? Maybe I'll go with a non competitive game. That's still a game Why actually say why are you stretching so deep when you haven't even skimmed the surface yet? Why because I could go something like Dixit like that kind of game. No Dixit is not even nano fictionary that kind of game. That's not a must-play game We didn't yeah, I don't I think that's a must-play game. They're very illustrative of fundamental points on gaming Old console games are tough because I don't know why you're having such a hard time No, I'm trying to think of something that breaks from I see a lot of paths to go I'm trying to find a I'm trying to find a new path. I could do like 10 in a row All right, then I'll guess I'll I'll go arbitrary again Let's go back into tabletop. Let's pick a euro. I think if I had to pick a euro like one of those euros I'm gonna come back to Tiggers and Euphrates. Why wouldn't you? That's obvious. Yeah, because it's it's the one Why and why we haven't played enough to understand t&e has stood the goddamn test of time. That's right All right, uh, let's see walk sideways and hit things games Streets of rage streets of rage is kind of bad. I know what's what walk sideways and hit things game is not bad Uh, yeah, that's my point. Why do you need to play one to know? I think you need to play a walk sideways and hit things game. You should play streets of rage Why the best one and has the most bump in music Why not river city rancid which has much more game river city rancid miss rpg? And is not like all the other walk sideways and hit things games All right, so along those lines then Sport games like console or pc games that are like the football game No, it's my turn and i'm gonna say ice hockey Because ice hockey I don't think you even though ice hockey is good. I don't think you must play ice. I'm gonna say something though name an actually better Ice hockey video game nhl 94 that game's not good. When was the last time you played nhl 97 or whatever 94 recently Yeah, do you remember? What's different? I don't remember 94. I remember 97 And it's all 94 is the best one. Is it? Yep. Is it really? Yep. Is it better than ice hockey? Yep, if we were gonna play an ice hockey game right now, you'd rather play that Yeah, why not because I don't remember an hl 94 ice hockey is not it only looks like ice hockey It's a great game. It's fun, but it's not It's not actually like super. Oh, yeah, and hl 94 is before they changed the view. So all right. All right I can see that but i'm going with ice hockey because it's such a pure Direct it's in that same category. It's like super dodgeball or wind jammers like those very direct competitive games All right, your turn. We don't have to go till 40. We're gonna stop when we hit the end of the time here All right mario kart Oh, which one because honestly The original mario kart is not worth Ever playing well, I mean if you ask uh, it's it's mario kart super circuit for the game point advance Yeah, I kind of agree with you But that's the best mario kart because it's the skill. That's the skill mario kart I'm putting that whole one down in detail. But it was like a gba But the uh, I think you know, you just really does it matter which one as the n64 one I'd say is the worst So it's like in the snes one even though it was the first one is not good So pretty much anything after the n64 the we or the gamecube or the the switch or the ds or Any one of those is fine All right, I'm gonna say an arcade game like classic arcade and I'm going with dig dug dig dug because dig dug We haven't dealt like the bottom is not really I mean dig dug is our game But I mean I think space invaders over dig dug. I think dig dug is more galaga over either one Yeah, I feel like they're different. Yeah, they are but the thing is every back in those days every game was different Right, so you can't you can't just be like, oh you have to play Every single old classic arcade game because each one was unique. Yeah, but that's why I got it at some point arbitrarily pick one I would arbitrarily pick galaga over dig dug even though Yeah, but I feel like for a modern person with modern gaming sensibilities you send them down from a dig dug They'll get more out of the experience than they will out of galaga Uh, that's because you know until they realize you can capture a ship then the eyes of the oh Yeah, but there's been a lot of modern schmup remakes or just fucking pac-man miss pac-man miss pac-man's better than pac-man miss pac-man. Is that yours? You want to put that on here too? No, it's saying sure please dig dug with miss pac-man I will say miss pac-man is objectively better than pac-man like in every possible way obviously in fact actually the Atari 7800 miss pac-man is way good Like way good. It's not as good as arcade miss pac-man. Anyway, I said dig dug Where we can we can do like a couple more and then we're gonna stop. What are the categories we got here? I just did racing And that's right mario cards better than all your forces and your gran trees mo go I'm gonna say not that f zero wasn't like revolutionary, but you got to play final fantasy six bitches Or chrono trigger is tough call Yeah, you know Let's say chrono trigger I think chrono trigger because final fantasy edges out by the tiniest bit Here's why I'd say final fantasy six Does focus a lot more if you play the legit version at least like four and six a lot more On there's a lot of like tactical level-up stuff and like strategy and fighting and it is way longer Chrono trigger has a lot more emotional resonance per unit time spent playing. You got to play chrono trigger Yeah, like chrono trigger is such I actually I saw a great essay That's if you're gonna play one jrpg It's chrono trigger if you're gonna play two jrpg's is final fantasy six and if you're gonna play three It's super mario's paper mario thousand year door. No, and that's you don't need to play any other jrpg garbage All right, we've gone on for Basically an entire gig night show so I think we'll just stop here with the list We arbitrarily came up with your crab be so far. Why don't you play some games? You got some shade for a particular choice you made in terms of streets of rage here What's wrong like what sideways walk sideways and beat things up game is better I'm gonna real. Let's see. Let me go back to this here. Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta too wrong in a row for scott. Let's see Do do do Streets of rage but not streets of rage too. What the hell scott? That's right. Streets of rage one has more bump in music than streets of rage two Actually streets of rage on the gba was not the music in streets of rage two is non bumping the game of gear You know what we're gonna do one more and then we'll stop I am gonna say advance wars Because there wasn't because that genre culminated and ended with advance wars And no one's ever been able to make something better than advance. Well civilization any one of them even even one doesn't matter Yep, all right. We're getting there at that point. You started into we got to take a 40 of the master varian or mule You don't got to play master right if you played sieve Yeah, I think that's true. You must play mule All right, we'll stop because I'm running out of steam here and I'm tired and I got all the steam I can get going I'm more knowledgeable than you All right, good show. We're done