 السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أنا هنا مع الشيخ الدكتور عبد الرحيم يمكي من يدع out of the Medina books مدينة بك that many of us have benefited from in his study To have a more dense introduction or biography about the Sheikh you guys can find it on the internet however I will give you guys a little summary يجب أن نقول that he has experienced Arabic language for 50 years, he's been teaching for over 30 years, he's been the director of the Medina University as well, of course authored the books, many other books, however the ones that we all know are the Medina books, he's currently the director as well of where they translated it, they translate basically the Qur'an here in Medina, the organization of King Fahd where they translate the Mas'a'if, and insha'Allah for you guys to know a little bit more about his books and the things he has accomplished and books he has authored, you guys can do a quick search on the internet because the biography is well known. So I'm honored يا شيخ وأشكركم كذلك على وقتكم واتزاكمنا خير على الجهد المبذول في هذه اللغة الجميل التي تتحفظ بها القرآن وفهم السنة. So insha'Allah I would let the Sheikh first of all, if he wills to perhaps introduce himself a little bit in terms of where you guys, where you studied from the beginning of your early age, how did it come about since you are originally from India and India is well known that they don't speak Arabic, how did originally perhaps the intention of learning Arabic and how you learn Arabic growing up. بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على شرف الانبياء والمرسلين نبينا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه أجمعين أما بعد. I'm very glad to be this morning with brother Muhammad Al-Andalusi who has been engaged in teaching Arabic. With regard to my interest in Arabic and my learning Arabic, of course in India we have two types of educational system. One is the regular educational system where every subject, all the subjects are taught in English and there is no place for Arabic. At the university level you can choose one of the subjects, one of the languages and that can be Arabic. But that is very little. The other system of education is the what we call Madrasa system. We have lots of Madrasas in different parts of India where they teach Arabic and Islamic sciences and it's completely a different system. Usually they teach Arabic grammar from classical texts and the main purpose of their learning Arabic is to understand the glorious Quran and the Hadith. And they are not very conversant with Arabic. Probably nowadays there is a change in the system but earlier they only studied grammar from the very beginning, very detailed study of grammar. I was associated with the regular system. I continued and so I had no chance to study Arabic. But I was interested and they were of course books available in English. I studied of course English. So I studied Arabic through these books and I was able to learn the language. Later on whenever there were Arab scholars coming to India all that I used to get in touch with them and try to speak Arabic with them. That is how I developed Arabic speech and all that. Later on I studied at the World Famous Azhar University in Egypt. That was in 1964. I studied the faculty of Arabic language and fortunately for us our dean of the faculty was the very famous Sheikh Abdul Hamid. Myrdeen Abdul Hamid who has edited lots and lots of grammar texts. He was our dean for some time. So I had to do first of all I had done English MA in the University of Madras. So I was allowed to do MFIL at the Azhar University in Arabic. I did MFIL and later on I did PhD. So masters and then PhD? Yes. They said PhD you can't directly do PhD. You have to do MA. It's called MFIL there. So I did both this. And of course there is a thesis also. Both in MFIL and PhD. The MFIL thesis was Arabic Persian words and Arabic. Unfortunately that book has not been published. In the PhD course my thesis was the academic editing of the famous Al-Mualab Al-Jawalikri. Every famous book dealing with foreign words and Arabic. Al-Mualab Al-Jawalikri. So I edited this book. And he mentions words you know. This is Greek. This is Persian. This is Indian. But he doesn't give details of this information. So I had to part of my work was to give the original word in these languages. In Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic. Most of these words from these languages. It has been published by Syrian publisher. It's out of stock now but long back it has published. So what is the name of the thesis you wrote? The thesis was Foreign Words in Arabic. Foreign Words in Arabic. With the editing of Al-Mualab Al-Jawalikri. So the main work was to edit the book. And there was a very thorough introduction about foreign words and how they were treated by the Arabs when they took them in the language. And the languages from which the Arabs took. So that was an introduction to the study. The Sheikh Al-Jawalikri. Al-Jawalikri. Al-Jawalikri is the 5th century scholar. Al-Jawalikri. He was a PhD. He was a PhD. There was a, in those days 1966. There was a new university established in Sudan. Umdurman. It was called the Islamic University of Umdurman. Jam'at Umdurman Islamiyah. So it was a completely new university and they didn't have faculty members. They took all the faculty members from Egypt. At the time I was in Egypt. So I also applied. They wanted a teacher of English. But teaching English through Arabic. So I was taken to teach English through Arabic. And I worked there for 3 years. From 1966 to 1969. In 1969 I had applied to the Islamic University of Medina. At the time the president of the university was Sheikh Ibn Bazallah. Yes. So I wrote a letter to him asking if I can come and teach Arabic to the foreign students. Non-Arab students to join the university. And he sent me a letter of acceptance. So in 1966 I joined the Islamic University. So my worker at university at that time was teaching the students. So there was no system of teaching at that time. There was a Sheikh from Syria. His name was Ahmad Al-Ahmad. He taught only students who had a little bit of Arabic with them. And they could understand his language. So there were a lot of students who had no teacher. And they were just sitting there doing nothing. Because there was no teacher and they didn't find a teacher who could teach them Arabic through English or through the languages. So when I applied the Sheikh immediately accepted me. And he began to teach these students. Of course there were different levels. There were students who did not know how to write. They did not know the letters. I taught them the letters. There were some who had a little bit of knowledge of Arabic. So I had different sections. I taught them. And then I began to write this book. There was a lot of it here. To teach these students. How long did it took you to put it? It was about 5-6 years. Everyday I used to write the lesson. And then with the help of the Cyclostyling. In those days you know they were. So we used to make copies of this lesson. So everyday I wrote a lesson. Everyday I wrote a lesson. That is how it took about 5-6 years to complete the book. 3 parts. And then the university authorities invited me one day. And they said we get lots of inquiries about a book that you teach. And we would like to have it published. And I said yes. I have no manuscript. I am teaching this book. And yes. So they said ok. So they published the first part. And of course we used it in the school Arabic program. And they also sent it to other countries. Where Arabic is taught. The second part later on. And the third part. All these 3 parts were published. And that is how the book became used. First of all in our Arabic program. Later on outside the program. And then many of the students learned from this program. They wanted to have the book published in their countries. So they asked me. It was my copyright. I was owned by me. So I gave them permission to publish in their countries. Without any monetary. So they published it in their countries. The first I think was published by Russia. Was a student. Russian student. And later on in India also it was published. And other countries also. So that is how the book spread. Later on I wrote a key in English. To deduce the subjects that I teach in each lesson. So I said the purpose of this lesson. Is to teach such and such thing. Kind of like rules for the teachers. No there was a separate book for teachers. Teacher's book. The key was grammatical analysis of the lessons. And the key and then teacher's book. And then. حلو تمرين. Answers to the exercises. That was also published. And then I wrote a book. Called glossary of words used in the book. With English translation. That was also published. So the glossary was the Arabic words that were a little complicated. Translated to English. Yes all the words that were used in my book. Three parts. All the words used in the book. I mentioned them alphabetically. And translated them into English. And with some grammatical notes also. For example if it is a word is. I pointed out that this word is. If it is a plural for example. I said it is on the measure of four rule. Like that. Later on. In Canada. There was a brother by name. اسف مهر عالي. He was an Indian of Pakistani origin. But he had settled down in Canada. And in Toronto. Once he visited me during the month of Ramadan. Before the breakfast. I got a telephone call. I did not know him. He said I am in the bus stop. And I would like to see you. Because after the Maghrib prayer. I have to go back to Mecca. I have no time. I came with a group of students. From Jordan. Jordan University. And I took some time to come to Medina. For a number or two. And I have to go back immediately after the Maghrib prayer. I want to see you just now. So I sent a call and he came. And he said. I was interested in learning Arabic. I tried. Later on. I was told that. The Jordan University offers a course. So I went to Jordan. When I went to Jordan. They were teaching the book. Prepared by. Um Al Qura University. The book. He said it's very very difficult. And in the class. There are students who want to learn Arabic. For purpose of business. Or. Christian missionaries. Use it for converting Muslims. And the book. Doesn't help us. It's very difficult. One of the students had a book. He said it's very useful. I took it from him. And then. What a copy of the book. It was. By one. We have the Rahim. I went to the Imam of the mosque. Where I was staying. And. I told him I want to learn from you. He was a teacher Arabic. He knew English. He was a Palestinian. And he was the Imam of the mosque also. He said okay. She gave me the books I will find out. So I gave him he says. He took the books. The book that is. Being used at the university. The book which I found. From the student. He took the books. Second day he came and he said. I have. I have read the books. The university book. Has been in a preferred by about 10. Scholars of Arabic. A very high standing. But unfortunately. I don't know how to teach Arabic. To non Arabs. The other book which is written by one. Single man. He knows how to teach Arabic. Non Arabs. I will teach you that book. So he. Taught him. All the three books. All the three parts. And. Later on he. He was not. To pay the fees. Because. He could not stay there without being a student. So he was a student. But he was learning at. Imam's. House. Later on he went back. When he went back. He started teaching Arabic. In a mosque. Went back to Pakistan. No no. To Canada. Toronto. And he took. The whole course took 2 years. And. At the end of the. Course. He invited me to. The convocation. I went there. And then I told him. As I told him. The. I think. That. Very short. Can. Toronto will become the mecca. Of Arabic learning in North America. And. It has. Become so. Now in every mosque. There is a. Class. Yes. In Islamic centers. And mosques and all. A lot of people are teaching Arabic. And using my book. So it is actually. It has become the center. Of Arabic learning in North America. So I have given you. The. History of how I. I learned Arabic. And how. I started teaching in. Islamic University of Medina. And. In Toronto. I have been there several times. And. Many of my lectures on grammar. Were. Prepared there. Okay. What was your longest stay in Toronto? About 2 months. Okay. Because. When I have holidays. University is too long. How did you find the weather there? Weather. I was not in there. In winter. Difficult. Because usually summer. And no problem. Just make sure. Is it being recorded? Yes. So in terms of. When they first. The problem that I have. And something that I always call. And emphasize a lot. On is. That many students. Well I actually see many institutions. Different books. Many teachers. They just start very heavily. With the students. Trying to make them understand. Grammar. Arabic grammar. Especially something. That I see a lot. Is trying to make them understand Arabic grammar. In English. So. First of all. What do you think about this approach. I said. In foreign languages. How do you see. That being. Effective or not effective. When teaching any language. Starting with grammar. Instead of. Whatever else should be started with. See. Languages. Are not taught. With the help of grammar. Only. Hebrew. But Hebrew has become a. Living language now. But. These languages. They are not spoken. And. Especially Latin. So they teach only grammar. But. Living languages like Arabic. Spanish and all that. They are taught. With. Applied grammar. You select. A particular subject. The easiest part of the language. And you teach them. Without giving the grammar. But behind. Sentences that you use. There is grammatical. Coherence. The teacher knows it. And. The man who wrote the book also. Yes. He has of course. The idea behind. These sentences. So that is how it is thought. You see in. Languages. What language are you learning? I am learning Spanish. I am learning French. I am learning Russian. Whereas we ask a man who is learning. Arabic. He doesn't say I am learning Arabic. He is learning Arabic grammar. There is a mindset. Which is wrong. You start from the beginning. Arabic has got. Three. Parts of speech. They start with. Details of these parts of speech. And all that. Not a sentence. One sentence is being taught. Living language of Arabic. They don't teach. So that is a very wrong approach. Wrong. Mindset. What we teach. The moment you teach Arabic. Sentences. This book. This book. The students feels. That he is learning something. He is learning a new language. And that gives him impetus. To. To learn more. Our. Brother. Mehra Ali. Who is teaching in Toronto. His famous saying is. We teach Arabic. With. Smiling faces. Not with long faces. You know. Sitting and thinking about. So that is how it should be taught. And. His method. Has. He has. Recorded all his lectures. Which are available. 48. Lectures. 48 DVDs. And. Students learning from this. He makes learning. You know. Pleasant. Exercise. So. You. You've said in. And from. From what I've heard. That you used to do when. When you used to teach. When. For example, you used to teach. English in Arabic for. For. Arab students. Me personally. I think. That Arabic could be taught in Arabic. To. Foreign students in the beginning. It might be a little. Complicated in the student might ask himself. How. I am I even going to. Be able to speak Arabic. If I don't understand the teacher. Explaining me. Things in Arabic. Would you think that is. Is possible to learn. To teach Arabic through. Arabic. Until we switch to. Completely Arabic. The language. Thought. Directly. Direct method. So the. For this. It requires that the. Celebrity should be. Prepared in such a way. That you don't need. Another language. So. The. It doesn't need any. Language. You can directly. In the same. When you come. To. I have. One of my. Principles. That I. Follow. To. To. In books. By the Arabs. You find. And they. Without. There is. Many. Egypt. And all these people. You can teach them. Without. And then. It doesn't work. The. The student. Learns. The whole thing. This. And. This. This. And then they say. It's not going to work. To. Completely. And. So. To. That means. You teach them. For example. Alامة العراب الأصلي. First. So many. Lessons. You teach only the. You don't. You know. This. They don't. They say. This. That is wrong. He is not going to learn. That is why Arabs are not. Very. That very. Strong in. Iraq. So. Because they learn you know with. The skin. You teach them. So. In my system. The first lesson. And then comes. And. I teach them. Very. There are. List. The first list. The list of masculine. The proper names. Other lists. Containing. Permanent. For example. Ali. أخر مجرد يوجد هذه القديدات ومجمع لا因 لها أن يكون هناك محاولة فاديو أم بامه ليست another problem ما تعتقد أنه كذلك so important in the very beginning when the student perhaps might not have even enough vocabulary to even use that particular rule Why would it be so important for him to know in the beginning لأنه جميل في العلم. في العربية جدًا جدًا جدًا جدًا جدًا وإذا كنت تتعلمهم هاذا محمد هاذا هاذي آمينة حسنًا، لذا لماذا يجب أن تكون أفضل؟ لأنني أفضل أي شيء من العلم الذي كنت أعلم. لذا كنت أعلم أولا، مثل طاولة وفارطمة. كنت أعلم بغنية. ولكن لماذا فارطمة تنوين؟ أعني فارطمة وطاولة. لذا كنت أفضل بغنية. لماذا فارطمت أعتقد أنه أعتقد أنه أفضل من الأمر الأن؟ هل أعتقد أنه أعلم بغنية. ماذا تعتقد شيخ أنه سيكون بانفشو maybe in the beginning to not distract them with like learning different meanings to just let them memorize those different words هذه تاويلة، هذه نافذة. And then later on explain to them that those أصول and you know تنوين، ممنوع من الصارف، you know فمنين is from the different types of ممنوع من الصارف, et cetera. Wouldn't that be perhaps beneficial as well? تاويلة تون عمينة تون. There are two different things. You say men have two damas, ladies have because ladies can't or weak they can't carry two damas. تاويلة تون is different. It's not a proper name. It's a men have two damas, ladies have one damas. No problem. Anybody can understand. You don't go into the details later on. I've got the third part. The last lesson is about ممنوع من الصارف. تاويلة تون عمينة تون. It's very difficult. Later on you say ويلليا مو. You say ويلليا مو is a foreigner he can't carry two damas. We give them only one. تاويلة تون. It's very simple. If you have a proper name list of names, masculine names, list of feminine names. تاويلة تون. If you say تاويلة تون and then مريا مو they are two. It's like oranges and two different things. تاويلة تون. So you say ويلليا مو. I use always proper names which are very simple for non Arabs to pronounce. ويلليا مو is very simple. ويلليا مو عمينة تون. You will understand that ويلليا is a proper name. ويلليا مو is a man's name. ويلليا مو is a lady's name. So you say ويلليا مو is a lady's name. تاويلة تون. Would you say something that I've heard you mention is that عرب which is something that I've realized as well. تاويلة تون. This is why most of the teachers that teach at Andrews Institute they mostly non-Arab. تاويلة تون. Because I feel like when you have gone through the process of learning the language you actually know what the student needs in order for him to learn the language. تاويلة تون. So would you say that to an extent non Arabs are more qualified most of the times than Arabs to teach the Arabic language especially in the very beginning stages basically. تاويلة تون. Because the non Arabs know the problems that that he faced when he learned the language and he will avoid that. تاويلة تون. So non Arabs are better suited to teach Arabic than the Arabs because the Arabs first of all most of them even if they're very very careful. تاويلة تون. They can't avoid using their dialect. تاويلة تون. At least in pronunciation even if the syntax is correct he won't pronounce it well and تاويلة تون. So she once sang Iqbal's poetry in classical Arabic. تاويلة تون. Then when let us like far and far she said I can't do this. This is Bedouin language I can't use it. تاويلة تون. She couldn't pronounce it. تاويلة تون. No, no, she didn't want to. تاويلة تون. She didn't want to be seen as a Bedouin. تاويلة تون. She didn't want to be seen as a Bedouin. شخ وديو. As well I wanted to ask you in terms of when teaching the Arabic language there are certain terms like for example تاويلة تون. They actually carry a meaning and there's a very specific reason why they were named after their names or تاويلة تون. I personally think that it's very hard many times to translate that into English. This is why I don't agree with teachers giving names to these particular terms and this is why I don't like either teaching Arabic grammar in English. not because only it's very hard but as well it makes it very confusing for the student because the translated name might not carry a meaning. So would you say when it comes to teaching Arabic grammar perhaps other things like how the Kitab when you can tell the student these is a book that's fine. Would you say that when it comes to grammar it's very hard to teach it in English and should it be taught in English? No, very small things and all the basic things can be taught in Arabic. Basic things can be taught in Arabic or in English? No, no, in Arabic. If there is any problem later on you can use the language only to make you understand that particular thing. But it's better to teach in Arabic because each language has its own system which is different from other languages. So it's better to teach grammar in Arabic. But most of the grammar things can be simplified. You need not teach exactly as it is taught in grammar books. You can simplify. So I've got one of the things here. It's fragmentation of the rule. This one? No, no, here. I'll give you later on. For example, there's a lot of details. You fragment, you teach first of all, the first thing that a student needs is a lady's name. You know what I mean? You say a lady's name is only one Dhamma. There's no problem. You know, everybody can understand. If there's no other English, you can have a list of masculine names. Another list of feminine names. It says we are alone. With signs? Yes, with signs. And the names that you select should be named well known to the students. You don't bring in letter names which are not known to them. So fragmentation. So you teach. Secondly, you come at word Williamu. You say Williamu. You will say Mohammedun. Adilun. Arabs. Williamu. No. No Arab. No more. So these things can be taught in a simple language. It doesn't need, you know, you go into the details of these things. The problem is I teach, I see on the internet. From the beginning how the Kitabun says, move to the ... That's nonsense. You teach them what it is. If you say how the Kitabun, the student will understand. And see in the language, the most important thing is repetition. And language is a habit. Language is a habit. It's not a skill. A skill like driving. It's not a skill, it's a habit. So the more you ... You know, when I was teaching how the Kitabun, how the Qaloun, I teach. Then later on the student, one student gets something he does as I did. Another student. So the moment they go out of the class one after one hour, they are able to speak this thing. Through practice. Yeah, practice. Yeah. I've got a rule. تقيد. Making rules. When you say شخ, in terms of, there's a lot of students, foreign students, western students. Who say ... Because they want to understand the Quran, the sunnah. Which is the reason why they learn Arabic language. لذلك يقولون أنني لا أحتاج إلى إعادة تكلمة لأنني فقط أريد أن أفهم القرآن لأنني لا أريد أن أتكلم. هل أنت تقول أنه لديك أفهم القرآن أو أن تكلم كثيراً مهمة عندما يأتي إلى أن أعلم للمتحدث؟ even if your main purpose is to understand the Qur'an؟ there are two things. The first thing is, there is what is called learning language for a special purpose. So there are students, Indian students and foreign students who go to London. They learn, he was a scientist, he learns only the language that concerns science. Another astronomy, he learns only the language concerned with the subject. So it's a special purpose. So if your man wants to learn Arabic for understanding Arabic, he can design a course where in only Arabic the Qur'anic words can be used. And grammar also, for example, it's not used in the Qur'an. Then it's not used in the Qur'an. So we teach them only the rules and the words that are used in the Qur'an. Then the second question, speaking is a bi-product. If you teach them properly, only the Qur'anic Arabic, he can be able to speak. If you ask him questions about him, so he'll be able to understand speaking, it's a bi-product. Yes, yes. If you teach him properly, we will direct method Qur'anic Arabic. He will learn Qur'anic Arabic plus speak. Because I think a lot of students, it's almost like an excuse. They almost see it as a waste of time. I don't want to spend time speaking or practicing my fluency when speaking. And I think it's just an excuse because they find it difficult. But me personally, I think that even, like for example, the word language, the word lua, the word lisan, the word lengua in Spanish, the tongue, the Arabic tongue, I think it's all related to the tongue, like to the speaking now. And even when it comes to the Arabic, one of the references is the wada. هل استعملوه العرب, did they even use it? Of course they didn't write much. So I think in my opinion, it's definitely important to speak as well. Yes, definitely. The language of the Prophet ﷺ and the language of the Sahabas, who spoke this language. So speaking Arabic is sunnah. The Prophet spoke it. So it should be looked at from this point of view that our forefathers, the Prophet ﷺ and the Sahabas, their languages Arabic, they spoke Arabic. So it is learning to speak sunnah. When it comes to when you authored all of your books, was it all based on experience and what you've gone through or was it based on someone else, one of your teachers, one of other books perhaps? No, no, my book is based on what I, you know, faced while learning Arabic. So the problems that I faced, I tried to avoid them in my book. So it's all, I did not use anything from other books. It was purely based on my own experience. So many people, they actually think they lose motivation because they look at all of these, you know, perhaps طلاب العلم and all of these students of knowledge and they all look like, they speak so well Arabic now that they think there was an influence. Perhaps their parents spoke Arabic or perhaps it's because they were in an Arab country or something like that. So I wanted to ask you personally, did your parents speak Arabic or was there any type of influence of you growing up perhaps even, I don't know, watching cartoons even if at that time I don't think there was TV that made you and helped you to learn Arabic faster or was it just purely based on your interactions with Arabs and travels? No, my parents did not speak Arabic and there was nobody in our locality who spoke Arabic. Even the Arabic scholars, as I told you, the madrasa, those who study in madrasas they don't speak Arabic. The system they follow doesn't help them to speak Arabic. So in the beginning when I learned the language from the books I did not speak Arabic when I interacted with Arabs who came from Arab countries and so that is how I learned and then the radio programs also helped me and personal efforts to learn to speak. My environment did not help me at all. Would you say when you went to Egypt for example do you benefit from the people outside in the streets speaking Arabic or was there dialect useless and you only benefited from your classmates and as you said your personal efforts? When you are in a country you are forced to learn the language of the people you have to interact with the people so unfortunately I also had to learn but I had in my mind I should preserve my character Arabic even if I learned the dialect I should preserve the character Arabic which I have learned so I was not completely I did not completely forget the character Arabic and was overwhelmed by the dialect and after I came back from Egypt I was able to completely shake off the dialect things that I had learned I am saying that because a lot of students they think if I want to learn Arabic I have to be in an Arab country I have to be in Egypt and they think they are going to benefit from the people in the streets speaking Arabic dialect but I told them that it is not the country or it is not the people in the street that is going to help you rather is your teacher and your classmates who speak Fosha because there is no country in the world that speaks Fosha really so this is why I told them even in Canada or America or France you can learn the Arabic language at the same level than someone who goes to Egypt because you can benefit the same way with your teacher online by you being in your western country or the student that goes to Egypt and learns there because he doesn't benefit from the surroundings of people speaking Amoea and dialects would you say that that is a correct approach yes my view is that the best place to learn Arabic is in an Arab country do you think it is better? it is better that is the best place to learn Arabic is a non-Arab country the moment you go to an Arab country because as you just mentioned Arabic is not a spoken language in any country nobody speaks Arabic they speak the dialect but classical Arabic you can read the newspapers but nobody speaks classical Arabic except in what should I call except in the news bulletin news bulletin yes bulletin news bulletin news papers also and the TV program news bulletin there is only place where Arabic classical Arabic is used even in conversation and dialogues they speak they don't speak classical Arabic but news bulletin they have to follow me even news bulletin the numbers are said not pronounced in the correct Arabic way so Arab countries and don't help you to learn the language but you can in your room in your class in your school you can create a classical Arabic atmosphere you know people speaking Arabic with recordings and uses you can create that is how we did here in Islamic university Arabic program we used to have programs recorded programs and notices classical Arabic yes and first of all we had the Egyptians but the Italian army we found that they spoke only the dialect teaching students and all that and that means sometimes all the students say something which is not Arabic classical Arabic I told him it is wrong he says how can it be wrong the teacher says this so a lot of students in the west they actually listen to a fatwa that sheikhun if they mean رحمة الله he was asked what books to start with when learning the Arabic language and he said الأجرمية and a lot of western students they hear this and they go straight to الأجرمية so of course you need to understand who the sheikh is talking to and there was mostly an Arab audience would you say that's correct they actually have to start through books like الأجرمية when I was teaching at the Salam University Americans came as students and when the first there was a student who sat in the class for one day and at the end of the day he came to me he said I have come here to learn Mutun yes this nonsense what you are teaching is not Mutun like أخي the Mutun no no no yeah you want to learn Mutun well this is nonsense the sheikh probably was speaking to the Arabs the Arabs you know they have to learn the system here to to get by heart in all certain grammar books Mutun like أجرمية all the in my book what is Mutun it's all there so learning أجرمية as I told you before nobody learns a language with the help of a grammar book yes what we learn is through applied grammar yes so the Europeans and Americans and all they have got a wrong notion of learning Mutun they have to learn the language first and then they learn Mutun if they want you can't go on you know if you live what does it understand from this and how learn the language so how my approach when it comes to to teach in Arabic language is I focus massively on memorization of vocabulary in the beginning I told the students as you said earlier that is very important to learn through the Arabic language to learn through repetition and habit so I told them that minimum you have to repeat at least 250 times until it's memorized until you memorize that I think that the students for example the Arab students the reason why I share with them would say to start learning Mutun is because they already know all of these words so would you say that that is a correct approach memorize a lot of vocabulary in the beginning with applied grammar as you said very simple things of grammar to help you build simple sentences and then later on go into the details of actual grammar and all the different fragments as you said from the different chapters of grammar see the smallest unit of a language is a sentence not words so the word should be learned in a sentence so just words the word can have different meanings but when it comes when it gets into the sentence the meaning is fixed based on the context context yes so always and I always say like as you said when a student learns a noun he must learn the plural but there are a lot of plural but he should be taught only but being used for example in my book I got مرضا one of the teachers there he he said مراضا so I said it's wrong مراضا means you know eyes which are sort of sleepy and all that kind of thing so that is a technical or literary word the word which is used in the Quran مرضا so we teach them the most used plural and with the verb he must learn the ماضي مضارة ماضي مضارة because most of the Arabic they say because they speak they don't know in the text books also Arabic text books they don't teach أبواب so we want to when we teach with the ماضي مضارة كتب كتب كتب كتب كتابة دخل دخول دخول جرس يجد سو so we don't teach them only the past present and the mustar with the noun we must learn the plural the most used plural only one also with regard to nouns it's better to say هادي نارون هادي يدون هادا راسم with هادا and هادي because he doesn't know the gender but it will be difficult for him so from the beginning when it's a noun it learns with هادا and هادي to differentiate because part of the system when it says هادي هنارون هادي عينون هادا كتابون هادا دفترون هادا بيتون I went to school in India they were teaching my book so the lady teacher she said هادا بيتون I also taught them how to draw I said draw the drawing is feminine if you know the things you know you teach otherwise what makes the Medina books what would you say makes them different to other books like other books that have been authored that many people use I think the most commonly used are أساسي أم القراء مالي كبنسعود أربع with the Medina books I would say those are the most common programs that western students go through what would you say that makes the Medina books different to those others that is I have followed so in Medina some books I forget the first sentence is أنا من باكستان this is wrong it violates my rule تقنيم الأسول على القرار they teach them with تسكين أنا من باكستان but if they do it with proper ending أنا من باكستان you teach the rule before teaching the primary rule it should be أنا من اليمن أنا من العراق in the second lesson you can say I am in Pakistan when it learns the other thing but the first sentence I have seen in the book أنا من باكستان you do not use the تحريق that is the source that is wrong أنا من روز I have mentioned here is تعليق in order to قاعدة الوقف we do not use قاعدة الوقف in the Quran when teaching Arabic when teaching Arabic the Arabs all of them they said this is wrong so would you say in the times of the Prophet and the times of Ta'ab would they use the whole Tanween نعم I have mentioned the rules but we have suspend the rule when teaching the language if you said هذا كتاب هذا محمد هذا آمينة you do not teach the basic thing that آمينة توجد but if you have a separate if you say هذه آمينة توجد something that does not come at the end so that will be okay yes but the rules grammar rules we do not teach them grammar rules separately it should be part of the teaching it becomes part of the language system so you do not teach I had a student I was his student was doing PhD in Arabic and I was his guide he said he wrote I said you are going to pass out PhD his question was more problematic than his writing he said why is that is because of the system because of the system because of the system because they do not teach that in the beginning yes it should be language as a whole be taught as a whole where do you listen because to me it was an honor I did put a lot of effort in putting together I spent a whole year by myself in my grandmother's apartment trying to figure out just as you said what I faced on how to put a program online to let students just like me to benefit and learn the Arabic language so where was the first time you've heard about under this institution what I was putting forth where was it and how did it happen recently by chance happened to watch your programs and there I saw you speaking I think with a student who was from you studied at the Islamic university no I didn't study so that's how first you said learning arrived from zero to it was I forgot first of all you wrote to me last year but I forgot your name but recently I saw one of your programs so I wanted to show you Sheikh the program and explain to you what you know how you know how approach basically and you perhaps can come in and say if you think that something could be different or better so first of all the student when he joins the program he has access to this portal so first of all there is something we call the guide to discipline because something that I have seen with a lot of students is that they don't know how to how to be students not even students of the Arabic language but how to be students how much to sleep how much to eat how much to speak who to be with companies you know all the different all the different efforts and sacrifices you need to give in order for you to be a successful and efficient student so we show them how to discipline themselves then on module number one we teach them how to how to read and write and all the videos and all the lessons are you know based in this manner for example so here so here we have so I teach them about EBT the same you know very common way on how to teach how to learn how to read this is the same way that I have used myself and again like all of this this program is based on my experience then I'll show you my system is with not letters letters Arabic letters with regard to the letters of the student or of three categories the fall into three categories one is completely identical Arabic words identical with this language that is of this language secondly similar but not identical thirdly completely different so in this system I use the first of all identical the student learns very easily because identical with this language secondly similar and at the end I put the totally different this is one principle second principle is letters without vowels are dead letters you teach them from the beginning you follow me you don't say meme and then yes so from the beginning and then third there were examples I give after two real living words when you teach the Arabic system they teach Hamza one third that you want to teach two thirds are not known to the student one third of the Hamza he is teaching Hamza but he uses the word seen it doesn't know he doesn't know but here the words which has already learned I teach him but he has learned meme in the previous lessons yes so these are the three principles giving them the three fourth division secondly secondly what I said with vowels third the example should be from the words already learned letters that he has already learned rules and letters that he has already learned there is a similar book which is called At-Tibian available in Amazon do you have author yes at-tibian so that's the first module and the second module which is the most important one is here is where I focus a lot on vocabulary the whole of this module on average the student learns 7000 to 10000 vocabulary words so I focus a lot on vocabulary however every single lesson there is 64 lessons and every single lesson has what I call an essential lesson so for example this essential lesson is and then for example if I go to lesson 35 he has he has another this is locked as well he didn't complete a lesson he doesn't allow him to go to the next one but for example in lesson 33 yes a test as well then he has for example in lesson 33 so little by little as you said the whole Medina books is pretty much all the content of Al-Ajaromiya so module number 2 is where you have content all the content of Al-Ajaromiya which is very simple grammar things from these on module number 2 every 5 lessons we test them on the vocabulary we ask them what does what does what is the plural of what is the plural and we ask them as well and then we ask them they say they say are you sure and then they say are you sure and then after lesson 6 he is able to attend what we call the weekly conversational sessions weekly conversational sessions are Zoom Zoom meeting calls with myself or with other structures and here we basically focus on only conversation with the vocabulary they have learned in the week it's 4 hours in the weekend so we tell them speak about this image what do you see in the image speak in Arabic and they make a lot of mistakes throughout the process then after they speak for 5 minutes we tell them you've said you don't say remember we spoke in this lesson you say and then little by little we correct all of their little mistakes to try and make them make less and less mistakes in their speaking so this is the weekly conversational sessions the student only can access this after lesson 6 so he can have a little bit of vocabulary in order for him to practice then after every lesson as well we have an assessment which is from exercise book that we've put together in the program which is these books right here is which is just questions based on those lessons now in the lesson they actually the book the book we use for vocabulary is in Arabic you don't use the actual exercises or anything just the vocabulary in order for us to give them اينا means where to صلي صلي صلي means these لماذا means these and we give them more and more until they are able to have a good a good amount of vocabulary so then every 5 lessons we test them شفنوين and every lesson كتابين so they get 2 different types of tests as well in every lesson there is an oral assessment شفنوين and they respond to certain questions with an audio and that audio is sent to my teacher who actually told me he is an Arabic he is a PhD holder he is Egyptian teacher and he he listens to the students say you respond to those questions and then he records himself listening to the audio and send him back the تصيحات of his pronunciation تمارين or whatever you might be or if he says for example then he might correct or get a sequence yes a sequence by D for etc so then this was the number 2 very simple you know on average the student in the middle of this module he is able already to converse and to speak and he is able to to have a good amount of vocabulary then the essential lessons is for Nakira and Ma'arifah lesson 17 so little by little we show them and all the lessons are for only in Arabic after lesson 6 I teach only in Arabic and I only use words that they already know so here I I will teach him about Nakira and Ma'arifah the Nakira and the Ma'arifah what about the Nakira and what about the Ma'arifah first I will show you what is the name what is the name or what is the name of the Nakira the name indicates something not specific not specific not specific so here if there is something it's hard to I know the student it's hard to explain to I might say in English it's as you say to point out and specific things so here they already know all of these words they already know معين I know they don't know so I might say in English so here these names are not specific they are not specific they don't have one they don't have one and they don't know one from what they hear from what they hear and from what they write and what about the Ma'arifah the name indicates something specific the name indicates something specific so what you are told is something specific something specific and the Ma'arifah is six degrees or six types so first we have معين so this is for the for the grammar lessons as for the vocabulary lessons so so here I know that they know they don't know but they know they know so here I know that they know they don't know they know they know so here is the text of and the words that are all of these words I know they don't know so we read everything and when we reach a word I explain to them I might do like this and then I explain them the whole lesson the mother prepared the fool الإجابة عكس السؤال أنا أسألك كيف حالك أنت تجيب الإجابة أنا بخير كيف حالك سؤال أنا بخير إجابة إجارات حتى يعرف معنى الإجابة لو يعرف السؤال أقول هو يعرف السؤال و يعرف معنى عكس فبذلك يعرف and then at the end I explain them one by one every single word يتعالى يهيه تهيئته مهيه مهيه هيئة الأم الطعامة للضيوف و أعدت الأم الطعامة للضيوف and I give them as more synonyms حتى so they have more سيد لغوي هيئة أعدة to prepare the food for example لهم this thing طيب let me find you an ayah الله سبحانه وتعالى فإن لم تفعلوا و لن تفعلوا فتقوا النار التي وقودها الناس والحجارة وعدت وعدت he was prepared وعدت للكافرين وعدت so here a lot of students they perhaps don't know through an ayah يفهم الكلمة and they are able to make a connection in the meaning so here is the verbs the verbs that I explained to them and then in the beginning I give them a noun حسب الشيء حسب الشيء I explained ما يكفيه كاملون كاملاتون و كاملون مصرفون ويعاء أوعية يعني إناء وعوان and like that I give them my main focus in this module is for them to learn a lot vocabulary and then lastly they learn we actually learn الأجرمية in module number 3 in module number 3 لأن الأجرمية علمات الفيلم إذا الأجرمية بل أحبت العلم والصلاة والسلام على الرسولي بطريقة يعني برحبا فإذا قلت قد قامت الصلاة يعني يعني أن لا الصلاة قد وهنا المعين المختلفة لقد قلت