 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always my one and only co-host is so it seems Tyler. What's up, buddy? How you doing three weeks in a row? Catch back up here. You got it. You got you're making up that time also joining us. Nick. What's up from the dais cast? How you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back glad to be here Absolutely. We are glad to have you on tonight. We are going to be talking about one of my favorite things in the entire world and that is Escaping we're going to be talking about the little rats that have my heart We're going to be talking about their position in place in the new 2022-2023 season 2 second half the return the returning First blood whatever this is called. So Whatever this six-month season is and whether or not they've got any gas in the tank spoilers, I think they really do But of course first up, let's do the news Tell the news 40k 40k 40k it continues in 2023 makes our life easy Absolutely. Just keep keep it up. We can just skip this dumb thing every time. Thank you. It's a 40k thing I look forward to 10th edition in four months or whatever it is I'm I'm I'm the opposite of whatever excited is Tyler with it will be at adepticon and And like clearly that's where they'll announce it, right? Oh, yeah during the big preview Yeah, so that means that the big preview at adepticon will be like so focused on 40k stuff And it'll be all those people going nuts and everything like that'll be the whole that'll be the thing And then we'll be a little appendix on the end. Yeah, so all right cool. What's next? So that means I can skip the adepticon this year, right? I don't have to be there for the show incorrect All right, what's next? All right, we got a very pretty Sally Very pretty new salamander. The only problem is that he's not eating a skink I need to I need a skink in that mouth, but I do love this model This is great. Yeah, Nick. What's your take on this guy? I started with seraphon my first arm is seraphon because I love dinosaurs riding dinosaurs and What an awesome slot in to replace the old terrible salamander I've got a couple of metal so salamanders behind me and I love the way this looks I don't know if it's gonna be side-by-side with the existing salamander or a complete replacement, but Nailed the theme. I love the things they're doing with the with the fins Leaning into that more with the new models. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the sideways fins on the skinks heads They don't match the other skinks and that's a little bit weird to me Because they're like flat like this instead of up like this. Yeah, like this weird front hawk instead of a mohawk. Yeah, right And the other thing I'll say is that they continue the trend with the seraphon previews They've been doing to do a coalesced paint job and a star born paint job And they had kind of the preview of what this looks like in the different color scheme. I like it. I Really got to give a shout out to the painter on this one that that fin Looks amazing like what a cool paint job they did on this That is very creative and different not something I think I would normally expect to see on a GW studio model I just think that thing looks really cool and fantastic So like whoever you are GW painter that they won't let take credit for the hard work that you do and when you post it has to say I was very happy to be part of the team that made this model. What a bunch of nonsense crap Like let people take credit for their amazing work But anyways, you did great work. No Artist heavy metal painter. We see you And we like what you're doing. I want you to know that not just your hands. That's right. That's right So, yeah, I like this dude. It's pretty cool I am I have to imagine this is a full replacement for the old salamander and that guy goes the way of history But of course, it's probably on the same size base. So it's not like it boo hooves You don't have to throw your old metal ones in the trash. No one's no one's coming for your metal salamanders You know, you can still go but but now for people who want to get in they don't have to buy a crap model Won't that be nice So, yeah, cool. Good stuff. We saw a little bit of the rules But that doesn't actually matter at all like who cares like the Seeing one attack profile means literally nothing until you know, how can it be buffed? How can it be? What's its other profiles look like? What is it special abilities? Does it have how many points does it cost? Like, you know, I could show you an attack profile It's like ten attacks on twos and twos negative ten rend a hundred damage All right, and and that's amazing. Unfortunately the model costs two thousand fifty points. Oh So close so close So, yeah, I mean, it's fine. We'll talk about it, of course whenever we see more of the serif on All right, so we Actually skipped over the general sandbook fact. We did I totally missed this last week. I'm sorry everybody I I remembered it earlier in the day and then just forgot about it like honestly when I was putting together the news that afternoon I just Too much stuff going on, but we'll talk about it this week. Here we are Nick, what's what you take on this as a whole anything in here that caught your particular? attention well, we You've got mentioned earlier, but the the ward rule for field vigorous rage and the Ugly experience of rolling that out on the table and then having that Completely negated by certain rules. Digvald loves this change for no particular reason. Sure The arcana admiral loves this change that one sticks out and then the change for Battlefield quarters so I can no longer with my war song revenant nuke an entire army in their deployment realm spell So sad. Yeah He just want to have fun and right, right? It's not enough to have players is his bill. Absolutely his built-in more scroll spell and Dwellers below he really needed this too. So I I'm with you. It's already so let's talk about some of the specifics What happened? Okay. Can you use tunnel master instead of making a normal move that takes place during a different phase? For instance when using the mighty destroyer's battle trait to make a normal move in the hero phase answer. Yes Hmm looks like everything's coming up iron jaws, baby Mega boss with destroyer your beer. We knew you were good, but now you're great. You're Fantastic, so obviously that dude is just gonna get mighty destroyed from downtown Is he can do it to himself? He doesn't have like even if you managed to trip up the giant base of the mega boss He can just make some pigs moving then have himself warp across the board in the hero phase And then just walk four more inches toward their lines and charge on a five. So that's nice True, they could redeploy away from him but of course a clever player will pop up within range of two different units and walk within range of two different units so that Yeah redeploy all you want you ain't getting away from me shout out to levitate if you can if you can fit that in there Have him fly hop over the lines get even more fun even more fun Does the shrine of conquest rule and only the worthy battle plan apply to contesting terrain features? No, that's fine that's just like a minor clarification and Then if an if an effect would increase the wounds characteristic of a GC do they lose GC? The answer is no that should be no But see below where we screw over one particular army who wants to have fun and make Vince make a mistake live on error This week because he forgot the FAQ and it caused him to put together a scenario wrong My blame Gavin ultimately Just fueled by girlish rage counts word save as already mentioned. Yes. What a what a bad thing that is Yep Like that certainly diminishes the value of that thing, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, 100% I mean, there's a lot that turns off wards in this game nowadays. Yeah, the text on that have just been Does this count as a ward no use the updated text for fueled by a gurish rage below, right, which is In lieu of making a word save Right or something like that. You may use this you may use this even if you the wound would not normally allow a ward save You know, I mean like you could you could have a longer text to it that says this is a special thing But also doesn't stack right right because that's what they're trying to avoid and like I get it I get you don't want it to stack But you could have you can you could have put the rules text around it But anyways now it's a word save so say volt will kill you and you won't do anything. You apparently you weren't you didn't have enough rage Hmm And then if a slaves to darkness player chooses the demon hood effect for the dark apotheosis Result on the eye of the gods table and the hero is a Galatian champion Does the daemon prince added to their army gain the Galatian champion keyword? Could that demon prince use and the answer is no he would not gain the Galatian champion keyword He would gain the aspect of the champion enhancement the hero had it would not be able to use it as it lacks the Galatian champion keyword Really unfun, but this is one of those weird rules things where what you're doing is actually Sacrificing this model like you're getting this model is removed from play And then you're adding a new model in and when that new model comes in he's not meeting the qualifications, right? Mm-hmm, but the problem is that's not how anybody thinks of it That's not like that's the mechanical. What's happening? Well, what's You know what's happening to me is my duties going ah and hulking out and it's amazing. That's what's happening, right? So whatever and it's another reason why you don't choose to turn your hero into a demon prince as if there weren't enough reasons Yeah, they really don't want to sell that new demon prince model. They're very against it They made that beautiful new model and they're like look look guys. We don't sell any of these. Let's keep these in stock We'll throw them into a regiment or a down box in the future. We're good Why for the 40k side so they want to make sure We got a slow play it right Okay, cool And then yeah down here grinding teeth of a little minor change It says you don't have to see the objective which makes sense because then they don't have to play You know weird threading the needle of like can I see the objective of a model standing on top of a 1 millimeter invisible point or whatever? You know, right so on Um Infantry it they added the companion exception Because companion because there are infantry with companions as well There are infantry with like who have four winds or less who have like a bird Yeah, or something like that Interesting the this seems to be there to address the long strikes. Sure But the long strikes rule doesn't call it a companion. They don't benefit from this change at all They just say treat it like a mouth. Oh But then well the previous thing said those companions aren't to be treated as a mount for these purposes So you got a reference back through the other one Sure. Hmm. Yeah, so you got to run through two FAQs to get to the answer But you know, we get where they're intending. Yeah, it's not just long strikes. There's a couple. Um, I think of the Who is it like the blood sisters or whatever the the ones that have Yeah, the little bat dinosaur dragon bird Thing whatever like there's a couple floating around Obviously the you know, Kerr-noth shooters have have their little their little spiked friends, but they're five wounds They're not they don't count as infantry anyway, so But cool and then also yes as pointed out by Hades, there's a bunch of like war bands War cry and underworlds war bands that have Companions as well snakes and birds and dogs and nonsense. So yep And then battle lines drawn That's the one where the table quarters are the objective the table quarters are the objective for basically Contesting it and then grand strategies and battle tactics and that's it No more fun. Stop all that fun. You're having quit it Quit targeting the whole space with spells and doing other interesting things It's just there for an objective to to to be conquered Otherwise, you're just picking the center point of the the table quadrant and you target and measure anything from that for abilities and spells and things Okay, that's fine, I mean Apparently nobody's playing that battle plan anyway. Yeah, I mean yeah That one's not gonna get used in tournaments. So cool change. Yeah Good to know the community is definitely already That's what the seven or eight depending on your feelings about realm stone cash based on what I've been seeing so far So yeah, I mean, but that's not a bad number. Yep seven out of twelve I'll take that eight out of twelve you've had in the past. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I think realm stone is fine, but I know a lot of people don't love it Because they because there is a certainly an element of randomness to it. I understand But at the same time, I think it's perfectly fine It's not like it isn't relocation or folks like let's be let's be real here. Okay, cool anything else for the news I think we're good. Yeah, I think that's it. All right. Let's talk about some pick. Oh the week Nick, what do you want to share with everybody? Cubic shenanigans did a book review the visa chaos tome and I got to play Brendan from Cubic shenanigans on his visa chaos and he's a longtime beast player and his excitement about the way that book plays now and the the high intelligence Plays that are possible in that book now is infectious and I'm really excited for him I think they did a really nice job reviewing it He and Dan and had a good time listening to them Very nice always a always a fantastic listen totally support that link is down below Tyler you got like 52 picks. What do you want to share with everybody? Well the dyes cast Nick I've been loving the the battery ports the the last one with kids was fantastic So everybody make sure to go check them out if you haven't yet like subscribe all the all the fun things we've got Bud tastic guy on Twitter has been going around doing the Warhammer wellness tour of the last couple of weeks. I think he's Coming in up to 2,000 miles or over 800 miles. So friend of the show bud with party at the all points It's been awesome following along So if you're not following bud on Twitter check him out bud tastic guy He just did a bat rep with season of war Rocking his gets Jordan was on OC arc. It's really good. Really interesting to see so recommend that and Then speaking of Dan and Brendan with cubic shenanigans. So Dan is Organizing a was young bloods this year our friend 2 plus tough Doug has been helping out as well So just wanted to give a little bit of detail about that if anybody has Any young folks who you would like to try to get into the game 15 years and under You know, they're gonna be doing an event 9 30 a.m. To 4 p.m. Last day of a Depticon. It's a Sunday, March 26th And we've got a link to all the details can check it out But yeah, it's it's really well put together. I'm excited for it I hope to hope that they can max out. I think they're looking for about 16 folks for that one Fantastic, yes, if you're gonna have if you're gonna have any any any young bloods there I would recommend one you get involved in this to you get them painting get them having an entry in the young bloods Competition at Golden Demon Let me just shout that out real quick if you've got kids and you're gonna have them with you get them entering in there It's great to do it early. There's generally not that many entries It can be a really fun time for them to put to see their model in the case everybody always cheers so much for the young bloods because like it We every painter there wants to see the next generation of Painters get lifted up for these kids to be celebrated So like if you've got a kid and you and he paints with you or she paints with you Get that kid to put something they've done in the case. It's it's fun Like let them let them get in there It's it's the best time and they'll they get to compete a little early and maybe they win something Maybe they don't but I guarantee you that everybody will cheer and love it and celebrate them And that's always fun for the kids Okay, links are all down in the description mine Andrew Gonzalez that was Cubic shenanigans link is down below. That's who did the book review that Brent or that was recommended and My link is for our good buddies Scott and John maniac and then John and trapped under plastic talking about their LVO experience It's very interesting LVO is a convention by the one that gets the one big one I don't go to every year and probably never will I have the opposite of a desire to go to Vegas ever But especially not in January But but sounds like they had a really awesome time teaching their class and this was kind of a recap of their whole weekend Looks like that a lot of fun if you were out at LVO. I hope you all had fun, too So yeah, check it out Okay, all of that linked down in the description check out those links gentlemen. Let's go to some hobby time Nick, what are you working on? I'm working on getting my adept icon army ready and it's gonna be slaves to darkness I've finally settled. I was going back and forth. So I've got a spider themed Bellacor lead force. I'm working on Been doing some pretty heavy conversions on some things. I've got some drier nights and my drier Bellacor that are coming together and Painting on that feeling like I'm behind the gun already a little bit on it I've got less than a month left. So, okay Till man Fugit. I today is basically a month away exactly if it makes you feel any better You got you got you know basically on the on the lake because it's Wednesday. So it's you know more or less to the day Hey, look at that pretty there you go. That looks cool. Yes, man Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that one. I just need the rest of the army to match it now Always the challenge But hey the centerpiece looks good and it's gonna get that like some people are gonna stop and ask about that thing That's for sure. That is gorgeous. Give you a great job Tyler what's been on your hobby table buddy? What are you working on? Yeah, I was just telling you guys that I think tonight was my second tweet ever where I sent out a tweet with models that I painted Got three nurglings done got a beautiful cute little beast of nurgle done I actually love that model it it took to that slap chop so well. Oh, yeah, sure. Fantastic. Yeah, so Yeah, the the painting night it's doing its thing. It's working I've got another half dozen units in progress Things are happening. I love it. I love it Tyler. I'm excited for your journey We're gonna get about a year of slap chop then we're gonna get you ready You're gonna start pushing your skills 2025 I'm gonna we're gonna be we're gonna be you know scheming up your golden demon entries. I can't wait It's gonna be fun. Yeah well That'll be a good excuse to finally get to your house get some games in and absolutely and some painting You have a meticulous nature that will that would that would do well and that sort of thing. Let me just say, okay I do not this is the problem Weren't you I saw you were on your channel earlier today. Was that? Doing so Yes, exactly. All right For myself guess what yes the golden demon prep continues guy number two in the unit is done He's complete Finney finito. So now we're on the guy number three and we're making real good progress He's he's that doesn't look like much. I know I know it really doesn't but I promise you this is so many hours of work But there's a lot of skin on that guy. He's done his little face is still red He hasn't gotten that yet and but but on the whole we're moving right along foot loose and fancy free Feeling good about finishing this guy soon. He's missing an arm because his other arms a banner It's over the side But I think we'll we'll get this unit done then we got to make some bases for everybody I got a lot of bases to do but this guy will get done and probably next week. I'm hoping I'm hoping that by the time I We do next Wednesday show all either be done or Or close enough like pretty close. I can handle pretty close I am going away with my wife for a couple days starting tomorrow So I won't have as much paint time as I want as always so I'll settle for getting close by next Wednesday I don't know if there's something you can say but how many entries if you can say are you doing this year? I don't care. I'll say I talk about all of them. I'm not like a keep things secret guy. It doesn't yeah, I didn't know Should be five. I think that's right. Well should be five. Yeah One of them isn't really serious. I just had the model and I'm like, yeah, it's fine I'm not gonna tell you which one that is but like but I but like it's it's fine enough It won't win anything. I don't care. I'm just putting it in because it's fine And then there's they have they have orders of seriousness Okay, like what do I think the chances are this does anything they're they have a clear and defined rank one two three four five so Such as life. Um, you can't do everything to 200 percent. Yeah, you got to do it to your best ability. Yeah Seems like a good number It's a number. I'll say that. All right Cool cool gentlemen Are we ready ready to talk about some escaven percent All right I'm probably gonna be in the role of asking you fellas questions. This is an army that I don't know particularly well. I'm fascinated by it It's it's got a lot going on in that battle, so I've never seen so many freaking artifacts With the way that they did it was kind of jumbled it all together like it's It's so ridiculous the way that the layout on that is like a masterwork in how not to do layout in books Like I you know, obviously Uncle Adam does all the layout for our books. Okay And obviously there's you know lots of work going on with that right now behind the scenes as Tyler is more than aware for our next book but the You know Adam is somebody who's worked on design and layout work and stuff like that for 20 years 25 years like a long time. He's well versed in it. I showed him that page and you about how to stroke so You know, I'm just saying but anyways escaven other than some funky layout choices I really think are one of the most fun armies, especially in the current season I just I really think they're they're prime for success in this season I think the army even though we got like a 2.75 book Effectively, we got a soul like Gravelord's book like we didn't get an actual 3.0 book But that's alright It's still a fun book. It's still got lots of options lots of list building potential And we're gonna talk about it how it aligns up in the in the current season tonight We're gonna look at some sample lists talk about strengths weaknesses all that Before we get into the specifics Nick What what do you like about scaven? What do you think about him at a high level in the current season? What's your what's your take? So I mean in the in the current season. I think they've got some real compelling options I think they've got Galatian champions that you were running anyway So they slot very nicely into what you want to be doing Galatian champions that really benefit from being more difficult to shoot Galatian champions that are inherently very mobile because of some allegiance abilities and can get around the table and complete battle tactics Their book that has very poor battle tactics in the book Yeah, they need to lean on the general handbook battle tactics, but they can because of the Galatian champion theme I think their book with real potential and I think more than that in any season I think this is a book that is a list builders dream They are a box of Lego pieces that you can slot together in different mixes and balances the the way they've done sub allegiance in this book really encourages you to To not lean too heavily in one direction Oftentimes we see sub allegiances that basically say take this one unit and run as many as you can. It's very good and The scaven book is the opposite of that. It says Get a little benefit from this side maybe pull in a different Sub allegiance and get some benefits on that side Find that balance. It's right for you in your list I love that aspect of the book and I wish more books were like that Power level aside. I think the the list building out the element of this book is almost perfect the way command traits and artifacts work in this book they they have the power level that you want out of them the enhancements are all very good. I'm not all very good, but many of them are very good and I really am a fan of this book Oftentimes when I get a book, I'll do a tour through the sub factions or a tour through the obvious list choices And this one it's it's not five lists, right? It's A and B and then A and C and then A and B and all these different combinations and I love that So you think that the list writing has gotten even better with this season compared to last season or is it similar or There's a couple of new tricks that are at a power level where you you kind of want to pull them in and Make them a big piece of your list and there's enough power in some of those things that I think They start to be be compelling on a power level point of view Relative to the obvious power level that is I'm gonna run a bunch of storm fiends. They're gonna shoot off my opponent Because that was really I think In many ways the strongest way to run this book all through second edition in many ways the strongest way to run this book Up until this ghp and now I think with you know some points changes and Some different compelling options. There's there's reasons to lean away from that Okay, totally agreed Just quick shout out before as we transition into the details here Don't forget to hit like subscribe hit those buttons do those things if you like scaven and crazy rat people running all over and Kill killing everything. Hey hit like it's great. It's easy and it's just clicking a button All right, totally agree with you on the on the current season Because I mean I think the the trick with the prass season is bounty hunters was a nightmare for us We had to really carefully play this like battle line shenanigan of what was battle line and what wasn't and things that were like storm vermin That are automatically battle line that have a lot of power Naturally, we're we're just if very diminished because they're just gonna get lifted Or the threat that they get lifted existed, right? So And all that's gone now and in fact all of our heroes slide into this really well, so yeah Uh, let's let's do a little overview here I think you're right the new season it's focused on Galatian champions means, you know foot heroes in general are well protected and have high value And you mentioned it for things like the battle plans a lot of the battle plans that are going to get used In events are going to care about Galatian champion presents for like bonus points or stuff like that Uh, I totally agree with you on the book battle tactics. They're pretty much not good in this book, which is fine I don't I don't use those anyways or believe in them those grand strategies though. Those are perfect, right? No, I was I was I was amazed at the the phoning in of the grand strategy They're literally all the same, but just like key worded to different sub factions. Yeah. Yeah, okay cool Sure, and carry on let me to score if yeah, and not not desirable in the first place. Yeah Phoning in is something that happened with a fair amount of this book. So but that's fine. It's okay still We we hit enough value here like they hit the right things that it's still a very fun book um the uh It lashes what I what's funny about it is it lacks any of the like Flash or design creativity that a lot of the books get like oh, here's the cool new Monsters actions or heroic actions or or you know stuff like that that you're not really want to use like Here's the cool. Here's this cool unique element you get to really play in and explore the space of right And we got none of that But in a way scaven's a great explanation or a great Sort of exploration of just like how to do the fundamentals well And your point nick about like you don't get pulled too hard in one direction Mixed arms force generally pays off quite strongly and you're you're highly incentivized for different power pairs For that are different utility toolboxes that this answers this and this answers this Like that's the fundamentals of a good battle tone and that it actually does really well So hey, I'll leave the flash behind if it means I've got a solid foundation, right? um And so scaven how they slot into this is they have a an abundance Of high value high utility galasian champions like that's exactly what you said nick right like there's these are real force multipliers in big ways And having them be able to be protected easily is great. It's just great Like some of these guys are extremely hard to remove depending on your particular Unit choices, even if they do have ways to get around The galasian champion protections. It's still hard to remove them um So and we'll we'll talk about that little stack of defenses here in a moment because there's there's quite a few a lot of books coming into this general sand book had to look at which Uh galasian champions are worth me slotting in to grab a battle tactic, right? They were trying to find some to bring and scaven had them all along, right oftentimes In multiples maybe four Yeah, a lot of them and they're cheap, which is nice Right, and they like they do something. They're useful. They're cheap And oftentimes I had five or six heroes already in my armies because I wasn't over investing in heroes to get those That's still like a five to six hundred point investment like I still had plenty of space For other units because I wasn't taking the big giant monsters in most of my lists Right. I was all gcs all the time anyways mostly Since the screaming bell became crap so uh They they also and this is super important Scaven also have a high number of mobility options And and mobility is just I cannot stress after you know getting some games in in this new season Boy, can I not stress how important it is for your gcs to be able to be mobile Between the battle tactics between being I wanting to be on a particular point for a bonus point Needing to be here needing to be there like boy is mobility Important and scaven can do that. They can get those those those little dooders around where they need to be and that's just incredibly important Um So need to get two heroes to a random place you can probably do that Right, like that's that's great now Nothing in scaven has the raw power of the mega boss with destroyer Teleport that we just talked about earlier like there's there's no threat like that in scaven. Okay Um, like where this if this dude comes into you and kicks off he'll just start lifting entire Units almost regardless of what's happening, right? I think the war bringer With the warpstone charm is is close to that level. He's good, but he's not a gc, right? I mean specifically with the gc at the gc level, right that the nothing that you can like Tunnel master around and pop up and move afterward and then come in with a neg to rend You know six damage attack or something, you know, like because that's that's what the that's what the mega boss on foot does Right, like real talk. He teleports as I mentioned earlier. He teleports over to you Walks four inches forward. So he's five inches away charges a five inch charge into you and then makes You know eight attacks nine attacks ten attacks depending on what he's already done in the game Uh, you know probably on like twos and something Uh at brand two damage six He's unique in that respect among gcs, right? Yeah, yeah, like that guy is a straight up nightmare, right? There's just nothing like that here to be clear, right? But again at the gc level I don't disagree on war bringers, but I like war bringers are themselves their own investment. They're not bad. I love them They're great But I like I have some issues with the vermin lords will discuss them Uh But they do get large payoffs from these myriad heroes, right and that's good The other fun thing is now with this everybody because of the way Because of the way the scaven hero to battle line system works That is to say like this hero enables one unit of its own battle line, right? So this plague This plague priest brings in monks or censor bears the battle line and this death master brings in gutter runners or night runner Or or night runners is battle line. I was going to call them night rangers, but that's a completely different situation Uh sister christian indeed so but Because of that they all bring their own bodyguard units, right? Like everybody's got their one unit That's just like everybody's it's not you they need to be near that battle line It's just you have lots of options to pad out your battle line now Now there's no downside to that really In ways that you've just got pockets everywhere where these guys can be around and be untargetable right You were actively dodging that last general's handbook and now you're right following it. Yeah, it went from like a horrible disadvantage You were trying to to to make not work to oh good This actually feels like a reward like I have a neat list building option. How fun Okay Anything else I missed there there nick or tyler any questions you have or anything you want to bring up tyler What What's your guy's respective sense? Maybe start with you nick of the competitive power level whatever you want to call it For scaven right now I think that they're If you're running Kind of a storm fiend based list You've got some really good matchups and if you can dodge your bad matchups You're gonna do fairly well So I think they're kind of a a polarized high B Okay, Vince. What do you think? Yeah, I think they're like a solid 50% win rate army that with the right pilot and the right list and and yes, certainly there are some matchups that are very bad for them, but like Um, but not many it's not like a huge number. You're not like you're not dodging the most popular things in the meta or something like that, right? But I think with the right pilot they can they can punch way above their weight just because If some ability to win games in age of sigmar and I I believe this is true is the ability to play your outs Right is the ability to have Optionality that that lets you seize on key moments in the game, right? Um to achieve victory and I think that's how a lot of games especially at the high competitive level end up Right? It turns on a a small number of moments on whether or not you can capitalize on those things or not um The days of just like taking a raw hammer and shoving it down your opponent's throat to go 50 are mostly gone You know, uh We're not in like fec 2019 slanesh 2019 You know something like that that doesn't that doesn't pull pull pull the weight anymore Well, I mean we we are in a season of death stars arguably I mean that's the broader discussion which we've been having but but that's not everything That's not just your armies of hammers like that's not that's not your whole army's hammers. You push it forward. You win Right sure when you were doing like two three keepers of secrets that were flying around the board And you were just pushing them forward and going like I don't care charge me or I'll charge you it doesn't matter You're gonna die Yeah, when that was the bar. That's a very different play experience. There's very few outs you could play to there right But here I think where the games are closer and do that I think skaven have an incredible ability to play to their outs. There's an incredible amount of just sort of Cleverness you can bring to bear of like, oh I'll do this. I'll move here. I'll all you know, I'll skitter leap to here I'll I'll use the knoll hole in this way this guy'll knoll hole to here And then this guy'll jump in that knoll hole to go over here and you know Because you can use each knoll hole once now and so, you know, there's just like a lot of It a skaven army played properly is going to feel somewhat like your opponent is playing three card money Right where they're just like follow the lady. Where's the lady? Where's the gray seer? Oh, he's over here now He's over here You know, and that's that's kind of the feeling and so I think to that to that regard They they are very strong where they're weak And one of the things that they'll run into it's a problem is they really don't have anvils And so like if you run into an opponent That demands you have anvils to withstand them Right And there are certainly like some iron jaws lists that play like this Uh, like what what stops an iron jaws list? Properly tooled like I'm thinking of a scooter blood tooth All the pigs are in your face with him, you know turn one on a one drop Just like here comes the literally the entire army You know off and they're like, yes, you can have chaff, but they're just going to blow it up and then recharge you again Because of blood tubes and stuff like that, right? um Something like that can sometimes be a pretty tough play Okay Um, because there's just it's such a hammer that's smashing into you. You don't have time to like activate your tricks As it were Right So unless you showed up with like a weird null deploy list, which is a thing you can do But unless you showed up with something like that Which isn't the norm, uh, you're you're you're probably in some trouble Right against most sorts of dps scathing can offer some They've got cheap screens and they've got uh exceptional ability to tar pit a lot of things Iron jaws probably gets above the threshold where those tar pits are really effective But 60 clan rats is a difficult thing for Uh, almost anything to move in a turn 60 A lot of damage to do for a lot of things Yep Absolutely agree when people rely on sort of average hammers You know like like I think of like storm cast hammers. I'm like, yeah, sure whatever man No, I'm not like I'm not worried about you Right, like that's that you don't have the the strength. You don't have the power Right, it has to be where like your army is an overpowered hammer like as a force right, we'll see how You know, we know we've got a a corn book on the horizon, right? So, you know, we'll see how that looks whenever it happens Because you know that that could end up if if if it gets the treatment We all suspect it's going to get to being to transform from like this weird Johnny army of the ballet of death and to just like Smash force 2023 that could end up being a thing too, but who knows who knows Okay I wanted to take a moment to look at our cast of characters. Shall we? Because there are a total of eight Galation champions you can select in this army All of whom are good Like every single one of these guys is good And the only shame is that I can't take all eight of them usually in lists like Every one of these guys has value everyone. That's what's crazy about this It's it's nick to your point earlier Of like people were trying to find a Galation champion to justify putting in their list All eight of these these These guys have a purpose and do something unique and good Everyone is in lists since this book came up everyone Absolutely. Yeah, there is literally not a not a gc on this on this Uh on this picture That I haven't had in a list totally agreed Because they all serve some purpose It's wild Like I can't think of any other army where their gcs are like that where you go 100% any of these guys can go on your list and they're going to give you dividends I will say that uh the last one in your picture the engineer is only there because of one word on one other war scroll But yes, everyone belongs here That is true But that's the warblight in canon. Yeah, exactly for the for the the scaven dummies like myself. Okay Yes, sorry, but but what we're gonna go through these dudes because I want to talk about easier in a little detail all right, but But like yeah, it's but still that's a power pair that's like good. Right. It's it's kind of purpose Yeah, it's functional Okay, let's talk these boys through We start in many ways with the best the king Uh, let me tell you what right now cue the deaf six because he is the king around here Uh, and this guy is amazing The archwarlock the old ick at clock god, I can't wait until we get a new model of this guy Can you imagine can you imagine? What this thing will look like when it gets the glow up into a 3.0 model my god That still looks great If you don't see me for a day or two After they release that model don't be sure. Yeah, um, I'm sure I'm recovering But like the arch warlock is fantastic three up they save That's the most important part to begin with. He is like one of the toughest things in the army Just because of that He's yes double caster He is obviously scryer. So he opens up all the scryer doors if you should want that Which mainly means storm fiends because acolytes are crap But that's all right um, he also is Actually decent in melee and the right circumstances You can turn him. I'm going to talk later. We're like I'll show the build later But you can turn this guy into a into a just smash bat monster Um, and he'll go in and do work Uh, I had this guy over the game I played this weekend and I just was like walking around and people are like, oh So I'm dumb rat and I'm like nope There goes like I just lifted five dawn bringers off the table It's just like these guys are all dead. Just get your dumb ponies out of here. You're all dead um So he rules uh claw lord Incredible command and command ability simple plus one attack Uh, can easily get protected by storm vermin on an incredible ward save Uh Like can he is verminous so he can carry around the warpstone charm Which is like one of the greater magic items you're ever going to put on a hero Uh, and That's the minus one to save Minus one to saves. Yep, exactly And better base attack profile than the mightiest lord cellistant Uh Yeah, what the hell six attacks three series minus one two damage and he gets extra attacks for every woundy suffers That's six attacks base my dog And it's easy to hurt him in uh, you know, I'm at dawn writers. Yeah, sorry. I would I say dawn bringers dawn writers. Sorry Uh, having that dude lift five cabin one go is a pretty good run. I'm just saying it's not bad. What are you saying, nick? He gets extra attacks Yes, I have that extra attacks, uh, based on the damage he's taken and it's easy in a scaven list to Chip away some damage at him yourself in some cases Oh, okay. It's also possible in a scaven list to have him fight on death when he is at Bottom bracket, which is uh, extra six attacks. I think Uh, he's six wounds base So five five 11 attacks in that scenario. Yeah, actually for the second fight of the of the phase He goes out swinging absolutely That requires a vermin lord casting dreaded death frenzy on it, but Mm-hmm Oh, he's the he's the vermin lord war bringers best friend as well We should mention that like, you know, we're focusing on the gc's here But the war bringer stands apart as like in my mind one of the two Really interesting and solid vermin lords Uh, and like if you're taking a war bringer, I don't know why you wouldn't bring a claw lord along with him As a little buddy as a little friend It's an easy it's an easy pocket verminus unit to to get him closer to easily tripping off his re-roll wounds ability and Uh, who you know Who also just carries around a nice command on his own and does things And as mentioned, yes, can can fight on death with uh, 11 threes and threes neg one two damage attacks Not bad. It'll do work Not bad for a hundred point hero I like him with tome and lauch on so he's hurting himself as he rides lauch on and then has flaming weapons So he's an attack or whatever. It can be a damage three I Love it. Love it. Yes. This is this is also a solid build Uh The death master what do we need to say except what a glow up nick? You want to we'll talk about the full combo later, but but What's not to love about this? Do you want to talk about the death master a little so i'm not just doing all the talking He's awesome. Uh, I mean just flat out Uh, he he slaps. He does mortal wounds on sixes d3 mortal wounds on sixes uh has a shooting profile and a melee profile And uh can run a shoot and things like that that most of the ashen can heroes can do Ashen can target a hero at the start of the game and get plus one to hit plus one wound against him So he gets some benefits there, but the big draw with him is that you can hide him in a unit at the start of the game Uh, and then he can pop out either at the start of the combat phase. Sorry Either start of the combat phase, uh, or when the unit he's in dies Uh, so when your opponent piles into a unit Blows up that unit he can then pop out. He takes one mortal wound when he does And he's still there ready to go the next turn Um ready to fight potentially and or ready to retreat because scatting can do that Uh, and he has some really Great play specifically with one battalion in this general's handbook. I'm sure you're gonna highlight that. Oh, we're gonna highlight that Don't worry. Yeah, uh, but the the shadow magnet trinket on him gives him fight first for one round a game and He he's strong. He's got play Yeah, and he came down in points recently now down to a hundred and forty off the top of my head. I think that sounds right Um It makes gutter runners battle line. Yep. Well any Eshen hero does and gutter runners are Very efficiently pointed and very strong. Yep Yep, so like again, this dude's just packing All all the things you want. Is he is he relatively cost effective? Yes, does he do a bunch of mortal wounds that range in a melee? Yes, does he enable good? You know interesting strategies and plays yes Right, like there's it's all this and we should stay here. Remember all these guys Are skitter leapable or dreaded skitter leapable, which we'll talk about in a little while What that means, but that means they can be teleported around they can all jump in and out of gnaw holes Okay, so they that's another option to move them all around and importantly and not to be underestimated You have scurry away your base battle trait. So when you activate you can just move away. You can retreat out effectively and That is an easy way To complete battle attack to complete either battle tactics or to get bonus points in this game Where you're like, oh, I need to get a second Galation champion over to this point. Boop boop Mm-hmm, right like charge retreat walk over there into the range Job's a good As a rhinox on this guy So you can hop out of a unit commas 10 on your opponent's turn when they've just killed your unit. That's cool And that's uh, scurry away. Is that a normal basically a normal move like seven inch move you just yeah, yeah Exactly. Yep. And yeah, the death right or the the death right or good lord the death master moves seven So yes, he just walks seven away Um scaven heroes are for the most part six or seven inches depending who we're talking about here These little full guys that is to say The gray seer. I mean, he's the gray seer He he is what he is. He's a great double caster who can who is also a powerhouse and how he can force spells through by eating up some warpstone He can be pretty easily well protected because he brings his own bodyguard rule with him since he's master clan He has a skitter leap on his spell list, which is pretty great Uh, like uh, and so Yep, he has death frenzy as well So, I mean he's a double caster with the option to go into superpower mode into like super saiyan once around Who can also, uh, draw other bonuses from like knoll holes and stuff like that same as everything else you've talked about And uh, he's 120 points Yep Like two caster that's almost always on plus one to cast because he's by a knoll. Yep for a hundred Awesome Yep The dude is an absolute rock star. There's a reason they're in charge of the scaven Like he's just great top to bottom. He's he's value and you know, normally obviously his drawback is pretty obvious He's he's like a five wound guy on a six up save or something. You know, he's wearing robes But when you can't target him and he can automatically three up ward bodyguard to to other units Okay, it's actually pretty hard to lift him now all of a sudden, right? Because he'll he'll shrug off enough of any kind of splash damage to stick around I was looking at the details of warpstone tokens. That's amazing. Once per turn in your hero phase You can do a 3d6 and then pick the highest two for your cast, but if you roll a 13 Uh, let's see you it's successfully cast and cannot be unbound. Then you take the three more wins. Yeah, that's amazing Yeah Yeah, I used to auto slay you when you rolled okay, um, but the spell still cast unbindable Now instead, uh, the spell still cast unbindable and you just go you get you get an you get an ouchy It's great Like rolling a 13 is awesome Um as it should be by the way when you roll your own sacred number that should be like a good thing He just gets way worse if he is near a bell Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't let this guy scamper up onto a bell. Keep him away from all bells Why why because the the the it's a great seer on screaming bell is the screaming belly unit Oh, I see. I see. I see. I see. Okay. I'm gonna like said, I'm gonna ask the stupid questions tonight No, it's okay. And that's a garbage unit. Uh, even with like one of the most momentous points drops They've ever applied to a unit. It was it's still terrible. You'd never take it Like it's just bad It's just a badly written war scroll and whoever wrote it does not understand skaven. Like that's what it comes down to That was written by someone who has never piloted skaven a day in their life They've never put a rat on the table. They've never rang the bell They do not understand what it is in any way shape or form like I don't I'm not trying to be mean but Like only someone who's never played this army could have written that scroll the the 265 or so points at this point and it has to summon 400 points worth Yeah, it's unplayable, right That really tells you 280 right now. It looks like yeah, interesting. Okay. I was just curious. Yeah, I never see them on the table So because they're bad. You'll have to wait for them to look like sometimes scrolls are just fundamentally bad And this is one of those times The master molder maybe one of my favorite little dorks in the whole army 90 points for this guy 90 points Okay, first of all You have my attention already at 90 points. Yeah, he's five wounds on a five up save But he enables rat ogres and giant rats his battle line and rat ogres Lap In the current edition Also cost-effective battle line and hammers themselves by the by they're rather tough to remove And this little Nutball, you know, it just runs around behind them and whips them and gives them Plus one or sorry plus three. I apologize plus three to run in charge And plus one to wound Yeah With uh with uh crack the whip And uh You know only within 13 pretty generous he's got a long whip He's got a long whip You can see why it is sure very long whip. Yes. I'm like cutting off part of his whip with the there you go See I sense a barrier over there. Um But okay, okay, so Yeah, he's first of all plus three to charge is amazing um Get an army that relies on teleports teleports, uh, right like The fact that like in them at the start of your movement phase you whip him And then you can shoot those guys through a knoll hole and if they can set up in some way nine inches away It's like, oh, we're coming in Right. Mm But in addition you can often just Get there like plus three to charge is such a massive charge bonus That you can move up to to like 11 inches away from the enemy and still have a pretty decent chance to pull off that charge Right. Um, you're rolling on eights. That's that's not un it's not undoable at all um Or if you just need to speed them over to a point You know like being able to give them plus three charge and then rolling that run out and then and then stacking on top If you just need to get them somewhere it's a huge bonus to run The fact that it also gives them plus one to wound is just pure gravy train. Honestly. It turns them into pure killing machines Um, now surely that would be enough to make him an incredible gc. That must be all right You would think that would be all but but but but but wait, there's more. Yeah, nick go ahead He can also bring back your pack units when they die for a command point On a three up at full strength and pack units is giant rats Which are also compelling and good in their own right interesting Or the rat ogres, right? So rat ogres you're running in fours or sixes 280 points or 420 points worth He can bring the entire unit back on a three up for one command point Not have strength like uh inferior death summoning Yep You did this one game in a battle report and I got a little triggered because it was after a sequence Huh, how many times in that battle report? Okay? I was well by that whatever time it was I was very triggered that game by all the nonsense You were probably rolling very well as well, which we need to I've appreciated you toning it down recently Just a little bit to give you know everybody else a chance, but All right, I'm done. Yeah. I mean the fact go ahead You can only do each unit once right, but he can do it to every unit that dies and uh You're unlocking them as battle line as well. So you want to be running them anyway Giant rats are 60 points But they at run two as long as they're at six or more models, which is not a hard threshold to make their msu six Yeah, run two is is very good at that price point So you want to be running those things and then you get this recursion style meat grinder on your Your rat ogres and your screen That becomes really strong and if your opponent can't shoot him off with something Stuff's going to be coming back all game Exactly and remember those rat ogres are 24 wounds because there's six wounds each now, right? right um Six ones each Yep And they come in outside of nine, but they've got shooting and then the movement and the charge bonus and Yeah, base move of seven. So even just uh like said A plus three to run and charge. Wow really good Cool. It's really solid Uh, so I mean, yeah again all for 90 on all in a 90 point body Amazing, right? So just and every one of these guys just is doing these power pairs that the okay next up our plague priest Um, first of all one is good three is better. They they love to be taken in multiples They start bonusing each other's chance. Do you like, you know, basically chanting on a two up easily and triggering great plagues on on Uh, you know very low numbers. I do. I know I love it Um, they can also get the bonus to chant from from gnaw holes or from mystical or things like that that might happen to exist uh, they they're they're Prayers themselves are just like they're they're sort of stock things you you might select are extremely powerful buffs To they're the two units. They're mainly unlocking as as battle line, which are plague monks and censor bearers both of which have play um plague monks stand apart as one of the few units where they built in on scroll bonus to charge um making them interesting as gnaw hole targets or uh, tunneler, uh, the the little uh, the little gnaw drill tunnel Weapon team that's name is eluding me at the moment But you know, I'm talking about where you can take another unit off board pop up set them up at nine They are charging in and on eight. It's a pretty solid Um, censor bearers are also just liquid hot death Warp grinder. There we go. Thank you warp grinder. Yeah, I could not remember the name of it Um, I mean, I think people I don't know if people just don't read the censor bear scroll or what happens there But censor bearers are incredible. They have the attack profile of shield annihilators Okay Yeah, uh, but you get five of them instead of three of them And they get a bonus attack when they charge and they get a bonus attack when they charge so they have a better than uh, they get a better than Then than the shield annihilator because they're four attacks each on threes threes neg one two damage So they come in five of them with 20 attacks Right on threes threes neg one two damage And by the way, that's assuming they didn't get any of his buffs because he has other buffs he can give them bonuses Including a bonus attack. Let's let's just go ahead and set it to five. Maybe why stop at four Get them right up there So, I mean, they can just get in there and do do some nasty nasty business now They die super easy. You know, you know, they're they're neg one to be wounded and may lay on a six up save That's it Right two wounds each The neg one to wound does keep them alive against some things that they shouldn't really survive against sometimes Yep, it makes it easier for your opponent to fluff. But yeah, they die easy Incidentally, what's the baseline these? Yeah, is are we on average running them in five or tens? Yeah, yeah all fives I'm on hard fives. They're they're bravery is not good enough to justify them actually running away in a larger unit They're also going to reach on 32s, which makes it a little bit awkward yeah so but like little missiles of five as as Sort of like beta strikes behind and this guy turns all that on and buffs them right and does All the good, you know, like he's still got again There's like a being a priest in this game is obviously really good right because prayers are prayers and prayers are good and the fact that he's What's that? You can't unbind a prayer Right, you can't unbind a prayer and the fact that they are some of the most reliable Especially when they start getting in in numbers The fact that they are some of the most reliable priests in the game The fact that it opens up the great plagues, which some of which are like straight up crazy good if you're if you're moving them up with a line um, it's just Fantastic unit fantastic. You also saw there's a battle tactic complete this tactic or three more prayers channeled by different friendly clan pestilence priests are answered in this turn So that sounds like that might be actually one of the viable battle tactics in this book It is. Yeah, it's very reasonable It's very easy for them to get re-rolls And to be if they're together if you've got three prayers to priests to do this They're it's very easy for them to be on plus three to pray with re-roll. So whatever prayer they're going for they're gonna get on a Two re-rolling So yeah, I'm just saying yeah So it just becomes like the world where they can one of the funny things is because they're priests Some of their a lot of their prayers are shorter range Mm-hmm So you might do the buffs or whatever on your unit depending But you one of the funny things I've done with these guys Just to start triggering off the a great plague that I wanted because one of the great plagues You're going to select is the bonus to all the rest of the prayers you'll chant throughout the game And one of the fun things to do is just have all of your little plague priests smite an enemy priest If there's an enemy priest around because it's like a 48 inch range on smite And it's normally on a two and they just they just all do it super easily And with that huge bonus you can pretty easily trip into the six and just like everybody smite And they can very easily just blow away an enemy priest So hey, don't don't sleep on your little your your little three pack of priests will kill most enemy priests straight up. So that's fun If you've ever wanted to build around curse, this is by far the best way to do it. Yep Curse is nine inch range And praise on a four You can get that four to be very reliable And you can you can teleport yourself to seven inches out with one of the vermin lords And so you can pop your curse off and while you're doing it get a great plague on the enemy because you're that close And then maybe gnawl out again once you're done That's what I'm sure that's what joe vuchic mentioned He was one of the scaven players at lone star neck over the weekend really good oklahoma player He had two 30 packs of plague monks and he had two plague priests, I believe So I'm sure both with curse. I'm sure he was leaning into that as part of the combo. Yeah Yep Okay Big chungus nothing is specifically allowing them to use a prayer more than once Uh, it's just like you can smite you can do other things. That's my point. Okay Because it gives you that bit long range Uh, okay Uh I didn't mean to imply spamming it. Sorry big chungus. I've I said that the wrong way. I just meant you always have that other option Nick you want to talk about the uh bomba deer? Yeah, uh, so he's got Uh long range shooting and he's a scryer Hero so he can hand out warp sparks to your storm fiends or Um The death wheel the name's escaping me, but uh, whatever scryer units you've got running The war short doom wheel. Thank you. Um, and then he's got his rocket which is Sneaky scary damaging Uh, I forget exactly the specifics, but I think it's run three run two three damage base He can warp spark himself to make it four Uh, and then I want to say it's d three shots But it can go to d six if he risks himself Yeah, man 18 inch range d three attacks fours threes minus one three damage and then yeah, I can get it to d six attacks Yeah minus one run so, uh but He can put out quite a bit of hurt a couple of them can put out a lot of hurt Uh because those warp sparks hit uh up to three scryer units So if you've got like one block of storm fiends and a couple heroes with them You can buff all three of them for the extra damage on the shots And He's just a solid You know solid one caster on top of that right? He's one cast wizard if that's taken. Yep, that's right uh, so Just slots in very nicely to the scryer list Uh, he he doesn't have any particular utility in Melee or and he can't interact with the warp lightning cannons So the other scryer heroes are are solid, but this is the best shooting out of the three Yep Yeah, I mean it's it's another one of those situations where the other raw utility They're bringing in through the sparks through buffing the units through opening up the battle line Through the range threat one of the interesting things about uh About this army is that a lot of your people actually have interesting range attacks Like you can you can have obviously you have some real good range attacks But there's a lot of range attacks that you can just start shooting off and like Everybody shoots just get everybody shooting like you're obvious things like your gutter runners and your lightning cannons your jizzales Sure, those are all powerful shooters But you know like your arch warlock can click off once a game for a d3 mortals your Bombardier can unleash the rockets Your death master can be throwing his stars and and tripping off mortal wounds, right? Like your your your rat ogre's half the unit can shoot and like Will do damage like it's it's all just damage. It's all just chipping in more damage like Everybody shoot everybody throw crap everybody just get stuff in the air and start doing damage everywhere you can because You know there's there you have hammers in the army, but you don't have any like super duper overwhelming hammers You have just really like you have good solid old-fashioned fair damage so Like sensor bears are amazing, but they don't like below the doors off of people, right? They're they're solid But they're not grand hammer annihilators Keep a counter of how many times you say this is a fair army tonight. That's one. That's that's that's we're at a good pace here It's only we're an hour in and we're I can't believe I just said it for the first time. They're absolutely Okay, uh Escaping a shooting army Hades can be you can build it as it's one of those armies That actually has quite a different number of ways it can be built But I don't see it as a shooting army I see it as a mixed arms army like it wants to use shooting to support an overall path to victory I think going pure shooting is actually limiting in the current season But but certainly there's plenty of people with shots and powerful shots at that and then yeah, lastly the engineer We mentioned it already also a scryer hero also does all the scryer hero things sparks and and battle line and stuff but also then uh empowers all your work lightning cannons to Do a lot more mortal wounds and commit suicide and have a good old fun time Yeah, so yeah good stuff So You know It's really incredible that you've got eight heroes here All of which have some viability in your list all of whom are You know the the the thing we're talking about in the new season Right. Yeah, that's pretty cool Yeah, I can't think of any other army that has Quite this deep of a bench So we're gonna breathe that much different utility to all your lists Yeah, I mean Z inch is up there But I'm obviously storm cast they've you know, they've got you can throw a dart and you'll you'll hit some heroes that are decent So percent wise, they're definitely on the lower end. All right, but yeah Yeah, they've got the volume. They probably have eight good ones out of the 35 gcs that they have. Yeah, sure um Okay, cool Thoughts and prayers. All right, here we go Uh I want to talk about some some playstyle stuff. Let's talk hammers first. Okay um There's there's actually quite a bit of hammers in this unit Uh in this army, sorry Uh rat ogres as previously mentioned the capability for the plus three to run in charge Fantastic storm vermin. Don't sleep on them. We'll talk about a combo later with them But you know 30 or 30 they they do what they do They they all attack Uh we here we need to appeal to another base rule of scaven that for every 10 models in the unit You you basically get an extra inch to your range to a maximum of three inches. So when you are a Uh when you're a 20 plus model unit, you just have a three inch range So you can fight four ranks deep Uh in in a lot of these things Um because you have a lot of your guys are still on 25 mil bases. So hence One two three four with a three inch reach Uh storm fiends, I mean they've already been mentioned. They've been popular for a long time They are still good turns out that putting, you know Very powerful long range shooting attacks into the air and then also having a bit of melee brute force to back it up Is pretty good on a high wound elite difficult to remove unit Sensor bears. I already talked some up and down Um and then plague monks um and I think you know the the argument of like our sensor bear Is it just worth taking more sensor bears versus taking plague monks? Um, I'm not personally a fan of the monks, but as mentioned, you know, there was a that lone star Somebody ran into a four one this weekend. There are some tricksy tricks You can pull with plague monks if you're if you're engaging in sort of teleporting shenanigans because of the built-in plus one to charge Which is potent But you know, there but there's options. That's the point Their volume of x is is exceptional. So we are pairing them with curse. It's a natural fit They've got a war scroll ability that improves their attacks on sixes, but you'd rather have just a mortal wound on sixes Um, there's a couple other hammers that are, you know, worth mentioning the war bringer. Like I said is A monk most damaging monsters in the game The help hit abomination Is now cheap enough that it really warrants consideration in in almost any list And it's not an all-purpose hammer in the way that a lot of things are but it's an amazing anti-horde or anti Yes Yeah, very reliable mortal wounds based on the number of models in range Uh, I think it deserves consideration in this list as well nice Yeah avalanche of flesh three inch range They roll the number of dice equal to the number of models in the target unit Uh, re-roll any of the dice of the minute charge move And then on top racket two ups Yeah, so that's pretty Yeah, yeah, pretty wild I was curious to get your guys I love the thoughts on because I haven't seen that a whole lot yet Either or just in general over the last season and so far into this season But when I was flipping flipping through the book today, it stood out and obviously it's got a Special table where you can take a particular ability from a list of options Some of them are pretty intriguing events. Are you buying any help hit abomination stock? I I want to he's still just a little bit too much too rich for my blood is my honest answer Like I think he's I his points down was good He needs to come down a little more is my honest answer The the the ultimate problem with him is he is still quite random in how he moves And that's like we don't have the squig fix for him And that random movement is really a killer combined with the fact that he is quite sensitive to shooting Like he is a big distraction carnifex in the truest sense of the word Yeah, if he were a little cheaper, he'd be an even better distraction carnifex So, but you know It depends on what other threats you have and how else you're engaging them and where you're you're taking their attention He can I think he can certainly be A valid part of a list even now Um, and and look if he does get into the right Targets if you're able to pick the right fight for him Um, yeah, I mean he will do a pretty egregious amount of damage The biggest problem with him is he's rather susceptible to being Worn down before he gets into the fight With skiddle leap dreaded skiddle leap is that is essentially every war scroll in this army eligible Every scaven war scroll eligible to be teleported No, so skiddle leap is your your heroes Uh, your heroes there are are your heroes that are 12 wounds or less off the top of my head Okay, so we we don't have a way to teleport this guy Or do I mean he can jump in the the knoll hole in the knoll holes, right? Sure. Yeah, okay Yeah, but you know like one of his abilities is pretty dumb It sets his move to seven and gives him an auto seven inch charge It's like so he just auto fails every sort of roll like that. Yeah, that was weird I just I really hate that rule, you know, there's there's a couple on there that are fine um he If he gets charged if he gets flat footed he can he can go down pretty easy And that's that's the problem with my the points on him right now Is it's sort of like the points are sort of estimating his upside but not Not capturing his downside But he does do a lot of damage the warringer I completely support that dude's a straight wrecking ball One of the the help it upsides is that uh, you can get the re-roll on his ability to pop back up when he dies And anything that doesn't die to one activation Is always a little bit compelling with that re-roll you get a little bit better Yeah, I look for five up. I'm back. Yeah five up with the re-roll. It's interesting. Yeah, that makes him a little bit more interesting 210, uh, you know, like you said vence is is a little bit on the expensive side But he's a monster. He does things. I like him right now 210. Um, I think if he comes down anymore, he'll be kind of an auto take Yeah, I I don't know if you'd still see him in there in every army as my my argument Obviously, when we say every army, we don't actually meet every army, but in a preponderance of armies I think if he was at like 190 you still wouldn't see him all the time But he'd kind of feel better to me that that's probably I think the spot where he feels right to me Just given the risk you're taking Um, but again, it's it's I please don't anyone misunderstand me as me saying he's bad That is not the words. I'm saying I want to make sure we're we're being a hundred percent Uh Clear here. Okay They also have multiple visit viable range threats. Um, they can do, you know, put out significant punishment range As I mentioned, I listed the top three here, but like there are a lot of just rando shooting attacks in this army Um, that you should be taking and should be capitalizing on and and can be valuable But you know, really right now that comes down to gutter runners warplighting, canning, ginger sails Um gutter runners because you're talking about three shots per model Uh on you know, so you're a standard pack of five for a hundred points puts out 15 shots every six is a mortal wound fours and fours otherwise The warplighting cannons if you're going to take them you have an engineer caddy who's with them Who's turning them into a 24 inch range 27 inch threat range Roll the first die and then set the your target number and then roll 12 dice Every one does a d3 mortals to you every other Thing that equals or exceeds does a mortal wound to the target Um, which is just incredible like the the the times you roll the one or two you feel like a god It's just like burzap that thing is dead now. That is dead now. Goodbye Goodbye that thing um So that's fun and then just ails are are probably the weaker part of this list, but they're still certainly viable Um, very very long range potential to do both mortal wounds and having decent rend um The problem with them as ever as always is they are very susceptible to splash splashy splash mortal wounds Like they you don't want to set Giselle's down and line up against and see somebody brought the The guy with the meteoric standard in a storm cast army. You're like, oh no Because if like one of these dumb dumps drops dead the other ones just run away like almost instantaneously Well, we that guy popped up at Sheffield slaughter as well. I believe over the weekend I think I saw a 4-1 list with carazide vents and multiple Vexillors, so yeah, Giselle's oddly enough. They are not eligible for sharpshooters. They have I saw the artillery Whatever keyword profile. I know it's not a keyword, but whatever it's called battlefield role. There we go correct literally the snipers who are who are in a sniper position balancing their long sniper rifles to take sniper shots cannot take sharpshooters because Because we're really good at writing rules in this game like Why Giselle's are still artillery makes the opposite of sense to me there There are so many troops with guns That aren't artillery in this game Like the war of lightning cannon to play claw. Yeah, sure classic artillery. It's a thing that it's a catapult cannon thing Yeah, great like Giselle's are identical in terms of output to vanguard raptors long strikes Yeah, and But they they're limited because they're single and artillery If not for those limitations if they were just a normal unit you'd see them the same way you see long strikes hmm But here we are and it should be mentioned of course they can be sparked like Uh anybody else though that that interacts somewhat poorly with their mortal wounds But you don't really care in the end. It's like oh no three damage or two mortal wounds. It's like y'all. I'll take it. It's fine um So that's great We mentioned real quickly vince or nick. Are you buying play claws at all right now in this season? I've that's another thing I haven't seen on the table in forever play claws I know On the pie side They are extremely meta dependent In the right meta they are suddenly worth it. I don't know that the meta is there yet But we see that meta. It's the the long rumored return of the hordes If uh if squigs remain as they are right now I am on board with plague claws as an anti squig piece of tech Okay This is not I'm not I'm waiting for the rebuttal. Yeah, I make one attack That's it It's it's easy to do with one attack Everybody knows it's easy to roll twos and twos or I don't know if it's on twos and twos you can get it to twos and twos Yeah, it's on twos and twos if you're shooting at the right target. Yeah. Yeah, it's easy Yeah, if you play teklis or larryl or anything with with twos and twos, right? You'll be fine Yeah Squig heard they are killing uh Three plus d six squigs Hmm. Yeah, I mean it's don't get me wrong. I I love the concept of the thing it wants to have a home They're like, how cheap can we make this stupid thing? It's 120 points And you know, we'll make it on twos and twos and do 2d6 damage. Is that good enough yet? And and collectively the scaven player base has just went Nope It's just not Now, yes, it should be mentioned that uh You know, it does add to battle shock as well Because it adds two to the battle shock rolls for anybody at it. Um, uh That's just like Targeted You don't have to even hit them. You have to shoot at them And so, you know, there are plenty of ways obviously like there are lots of ways to negate battle shock in the world There are and the spells that do it and things like that battle shock immunity is becoming more rare I'm not saying there couldn't be a world where it's potentially viable But you know in the end the issue is even on twos and twos it's you know It's just often easy for that to be nothing So but I it's better than it ever has been if it's ever even bordered on playable Now is the time You know what nick next time I play against my my my squig buddy because he runs a lot of like he already does run a lot of squigs Um, like I got I got I got a maw's a jerk player in my in my in my group Um, I'm uh, I've got a bunch of play clause. You know what just for you. I'm gonna take like three of them We're gonna see what we're gonna see what happens. We'll we'll give it a spin We'll give it a spin on your nice. It will work out beautifully for you. That's the scaven way Uh anything else on the sort of like shooting or range threats we want to we want to talk about there I mean, I didn't mention storm fiends because I mentioned them up above because they're sort of both They're like a hammer and a range threat and a they're in everything all in one They slice they dice they julien fry, but they they should also of course be considered in here As obviously one of their builds is very ranged focused Just redirect gutter runners, uh people sleep on them Incredibly efficient damage Three shots each mortal wounds on sixes 15 shots out of a hundred point unit Yep Uh, I mean, they're just they're just wonderful. So like and by the way, we do you need to if something's left They can often charge in and finish it out Like their mortal wounds are on their melee attacks too and they make plenty of little little melee attacks They die instantly if they get hit back. So just make sure it's just like you're they're just there to like clean something up Just to find a little clean up And get in there and just Um do the do the work there Um, they are horrific sculpts. Yes step one if you want to play gutter runners Find a 3d print of some kind of ninja rat. There are a million of them Uh in lieu of games workshop deciding to never redo this army Apparently, I'll tell you what my hope is. Do you want to know my long shot hope tyler? I mean, it's uh next year a bust at this point Strap on the tin foil hat. Here we go Uh Skaven We're gonna but we're gonna make the call now. I'm pointing out left field. You ready? Okay, sorry left field Um, no, that was right left field. Yeah, okay um Skaven are the launch box for fourth edition Uh, and and next summer will herald the grand re-release of our army Uh, we will that like once we'll get cities in this fall and then next year in the middle of the year We'll get a we'll get a full treatment Serif on style city style Soul blight style everybody else style where they read on their whole stupid army Even though we have the oldest sculpts in the game Literally that model that I had the picture of that you can still buy was sculpted in 1993 Yeah I'm gonna say there ain't much else left to re-sculpt at this point. I think you might be the only one left Like, uh, it's 30 years old. That's not a joke. That's not an exaggeration I went I had to go back and pull the actual release dates from the the From the database on this and yes, it's 30 years Old that looks like you got a piece of chaos as your competition Surely you're gonna get they got some old ones too. Yeah That's uh, that's not 30 years old. Anyway, yeah I've got a different not somewhat related. I actually think they're gonna be the old world launch box Oh, okay. So we we back door him in there. That's that's fine That'd be a perfectly fine way to get new gutter runners and the things that are old world appropriate. I would accept that. Okay um But I also want to see I want to see the aos world of what scaven looks like they're They were always one of the most inventive races. They pushed things like they're, you know scryer and And molder are both about advancement more than anything else, right? Like they One pushes technology one pushes flesh crafting but they it was about new and horrible designs even right up until the end times That's where we rolled out Uh, you know things like storm fiends because it was representing the newest tech coming out of the help hit right And and I just I want to see what that world looks like where Where scaven have had thousands of years in the mortal realms to invent new stuff I just think it would be the coolest thing Yeah So anyways, also bring back the bone breaker Uh guy that that too There used to be an option tyler just so you know to put a claw lord on top of a big rat ogre And that was like that could be your mount and it was just it was like a dude on a how-to on top of a rat ogre It was super fun. It was just a neat one thing. It never had a model So you always had to custom build your own. It was one of those things Um, but you know, they don't do that those kinds of things anymore. Everything has to have a model now So bring that back Anyways, scaven have deep access to magic and prayers. We've been talking about the whole time solid spell lists solid prayers bonuses to chant bonuses to cast Great casters that can power up and hit big numbers I don't know what else to say like it's it's a thing. It's a thing you can do Um Now let me talk about vermin lords for a minute. No, this is the part about bacon muffins So One of the things I actually really hate is that the vermin lords who are all double casters, which is cool Um, are all kind of crappy spell casters Uh, and what I mean by that is they don't have their own dedicated spell lists They all have a really cool spell on their on their scroll. They they stand apart as most of them having actually almost to a Uh, almost to a vermin lord. They have an exceptionally good war scroll spells Dreaded death frenzy dreaded skitter leap dreaded warp gale Um dreaded plague die thing. I don't remember the one that's a four up unit destroyer a horror destroyer Um, whatever. They're all good But you know, no Dreaded 13th. Thank you. Yes. Absolutely. Oh god. Yes dreaded 13th, right? But the little boys just outclass them in casting the the vermin lords are almost never in your know-holes Just because the nature of how they need to be operating. They have no bonuses to cast. They can't eat warp stone They just end up being very vanilla double casters on giant 400 point monsters And it's very easy for their magic to just get shut down Which is which is kind of like It makes me feel bad. Um, the warbringer picks up the weight by being So very dangerous and melee when built properly that I I'm still okay with them Um, but these are like the the important part to remember here about the vermin lords is You know, they're only 13 wound models Okay On a four up save now. Yes, they all have a five upward, which is awesome. Okay Uh, and that's great, but most of them are going to struggle to ever make their points back Um The warbringer stands apart because he has both incredible utility and buffs Without the need to resort to his magic although his magic makes it even better Like if you can get his magic off then he has incredible utility Um, but he's also good in melee And the deceiver stands apart because of the six inch dreaded skitter leap like because he can teleport six inches away It is such a game breaking ability to be able to teleport to within six inches But he's often just a featherweight in combat You'd think he'd be a lot tougher when you look at his war scroll, but the dude just He just doesn't end up doing a lot of damage in melee I've got a way to give him bonus extra attacks bonus attacks, right the same way you can You can you're basically you're gonna pick one hero and they're gonna end up with two bonus attacks That's what's gonna happen. Okay, so who get up to eight attacks that Two's and twos minus three two damage assume you all out or something. Yeah, sure Right, and then maybe flaming weapon. He's he's a two cast. Okay. Is there any way other than a gnaw hole standing by a Gnaw hole to improve the casting with skitter leap Is that it just plus one and that's this okay interesting Yeah, I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say that that is a lie Okay, is there any way to improve it in any army you've ever built you'd ever build Uh, no, is there actually a way to build to to do it in an arm and in printed in the war scrolls? Yes, the screaming bell can improve can give us one cast. Okay. Um, it's it's terrible and random. So there you go You know, the problem is without flaming weapon without going all out, right without like Really having those things. It's very easy for him to fluff Right. Yeah Nick you probably have run this guy. I feel like I've seen you running before but I was most impressed watching matias Played the thank-well to steve recombination with I think triple warp lightning cannon in new mexico He was on the stream at least one or two games. He came in second He went up against matt swinney who was rocking storm cast and he was an exceptional distraction karn effects He had some way where he can Leave combat Maybe even some way to fight first Or make make somebody fight last it was something you would know the details Yeah, so you probably add on the deceiver the shadow magnet trinket, which is fight first You can get it last until your next hero phase. I believe it is the timing So turn you can do it and then through the opponent's turn potentially um And then all scaven heroes Instead of fighting can retreat Okay. All right. Yeah monsters on that rule Right. Yeah, you just can't the restriction on retreating is you can't have a you can't scurry away if you're on a Oh on a mount on a mount. Yeah, so like the bell and the furnace can't scurry away specifically, but the the vermin lords can Uh Yeah, thank well getting to six inches away from a target without them being able to redeploy is really big Um, the way his braiders interact. It's really easy for Opponents to kind of negate the effectiveness of them with a good redeploy So drop him six inches out and So he doesn't have to move doesn't offer the redeploy. Yeah things like knight haunt or you can get into a lot of a lot of Lot of models with the shooting right Uh, yeah, I mean here like hold on tyler. I'm gonna make this point Okay, look like you got to play fair warhammer with scaven. All right because Like joking aside, we don't have like scrolls that are going to run around in the army and do things like shut off redeploy Right and stuff like that You know, you've got you've got what you've got okay And Yeah, you know, so like everybody's gonna have For the most part their rules against you, you know, I mean like we we play by What it says in the book for the most part We don't have a lot of like let me suppress your ability to access normal game rules That's been a very popular thing to design recently right you think of like the you think of the um Uh, what are they the the unmade in in s2d, right? We just talked about last week where they can just skirmish around and shut off redeploy and shut off, uh rally Right, yeah, like there's a lot of ability you think of your I'm sure a thing you run in your nurgle stupid army Um, like I'm willing to bet that somebody in your army has overpowering stench Okay I don't oh, okay. I did like I did last year, but oh, okay Yeah, so like but that's my point, right almost every nurgle list you run up against It's just like we're playing nurgle overpowering stench I'm gonna surprise surprise right because it just shuts off your ability to access core game rules And like there's just you don't find that in scaven like people are going to be able to access their rules For the most part, right now you can so you have to reach out to to other Generic endless spells or stuff like that and certainly those can can do work But it's not like on the war scrolls in the army. We have access to that, you know other people can access those tricks too Right. Yeah, that's why that's what I mean when I say fair war hammer, right? Like we're not cutting off a lot of armies want to cut off your access to the core game Like you try to access core rules and they stop you Right. Um night haunt. Nope. You don't get to use inspiring presence, right? Or whatever all this kind of stuff We have nothing that's going to do that Just to close the lip. I don't know if I made it clear But what I was impressed by in terms of the deceiver as a strax distraction carnifex is that combination nick Where you can make somebody so you cast get a leap It charges into something does some work with eight attacks twos twos, whatever And then your opponent counterattacks it, right? But then you pop the fight last and then you get out of dodge before they can swing at you So from a Strikes first, but yeah on their turn they come into you you fight first when they're Fight first. Sorry. I had it backwards. Yes. So you fight first you get out of dodge So it's that that's a phenomenal distraction carnifex tool to have in terms of tempo of a game where you could turn off the Reduce the value of four fulminators, which is what happened to mad. I believe in that game, right? So anyway, I just I found that very intriguing from from the deceiver standpoint. Yep Andrew Gonzales says do ogres have something like that? Which I assume you mean what like the the rules cut off things and the answer is no because they're another fair army Like ogres are are another very classic fair army. Um, they just want to charge you real hard And and play they also have some fun times in the gcs By the way, tyler, did you see how did the how did the I didn't look at the the lone star results? But how did the uh, our favorite list? Yeah, the tyrant spam list where do you end up? It was terrible. I think you may have been one and four. Oh, no I was so so sad. Yeah, I don't have any details on it. But yeah, I do know it's gone that that Archetype has gone for one. Sure. Sure. But yeah, he had a rough weekend Maybe you just had some bad matchups. Absolutely. But it's still a cool list. All right And then lastly skaven have mobility options gnaw holds skid or leap Bonuses to run in charge all over the place. I cannot Cannot state that enough retreat. I didn't mention it here But retreat in charge on your both your your core battle line units your your clan rats and your storm vermin Both have retreat charge built in Okay, incredibly valuable to be able to just be like nope over here now, you know, just like We're going over here boys. Let's do this, right? And so there's just a lot a lot a lot of mobility Um, you know base clan rats have plus two to run Sounds like the dumbest thing in the world Incredibly valuable incredibly valuable And retreat in charge. Yes. So just like being able to be like, oh, I need to get this unit over that objective I'll I'll I'll get there. I can just cover an immense amount of space, right? It's it's great That reminds me watching some scaven games with good players I feel like I've been watching Brendan from back in the day with his skeleton hordes where it's just Lines all over the place where you Maintain the because they're 25 millimeters. You just have three models touching instead of doing the traditional bow tie You just have three models touching on each end, right? And then you can stretch out the middle One inch coherency and you just get phenomenal reach across the board in terms of your lines and everything Yeah, I've been seeing that once I'm just giving players Uh, yeah, that's I mean I hate that. I don't I will overly say I don't do that. I I tend to It's just a personal thing. I hate those. I was dead. It's The first time I ever played Brendan was him tracing those dumb skeleton lines all over the freaking board. It drove me crazy No Um, all right, I'll do that too to uh trail back to their their buff pieces that are not wholly within Yeah, no All right tricks and tactics. Let's talk it through here. We go Uh, just this is just a sample and nick. I want some of your takes here as well. So, uh, you know some items that I've got I've got some some fun lists here Uh Okay, the thing we've already mentioned a hundred times on this show and we'll continue talking about death master Plus the shadow magic magnet Why isn't that magic? It's a kind of magic, uh, so plus the shadow magnet to trinket plus storm vermin This is a very simple trick put death master In your army put shadow magnet trinket on him as an artifact Put death master with shadow magnet trinket into the unit of storm vermin Move storm vermin forward allow them to be charged by anything If you need to because it's very scary out comes the death master activates the shadow magnet trinket Uh now fights first you have to be in I should state this has to be in glacial command That's the trick here. So you're putting both the death master and the storm vermin in the glacial command um battalion and Then death master activates fights first with in in the asf part of the turn and part of the combat phase And brings along 30 storm vermin with him who as mentioned will fight four bases deep And whatever just attacked you is now almost certainly dead Um, because that is a egregious number of attacks Yeah, your claw lord can pop plus one attacks on him or you can use the command for plus one attacks Lot of ways to juice up those attacks fighting four ranks is really important here because the bubble is really small on that glacial command Yeah, so you need to have your death master oftentimes in the middle of them So the fact that you can get four ranks forward means you don't have to spread out so wide. It's real good Yeah, what's their base how many attacks they rock and base two Yeah, two base, but again, it's very easy to get into three and yes, ridge said I will say the one thing that Is it can be negated by a smart player charging you in a way that your death master can't stay wholly within six Absolutely true. Like you got to be very careful with that. There's there's counterplay to it, but it's just a wonderful trick um, and Hey, it's super fun also But yes, there's there's certainly counterplay that a smart player can can Play around be because of the size of that footprint of 30 storm vermin vis-a-vis the bubble you're trying to do for glacial command Um Skitter leap and dreaded skitter leap. I just these these make their way here all on their own because the way they interact with knoll holes as previously mentioned Teleporting and then popping back over through a knoll hole. So you go over you do your thing. You come back You come home You've got very low cast value teleport from the grace here the vermin lord deceiver Great for battle tactics battle plans that care about the placements of gc This is just getting your heroes in the position. You need them to be in as often A slam dunk in this army And the grace here as previously mentioned can power out a super spell a turn Uh, so if you happen to need Uh to really power through that teleport you often have the ability to do so With the grace here like if you really need to get that gc to a place nom nom on some rocky rocks and They'll they'll probably find their way over to where they need to be These interact really nicely with endless spells short range endless spells in particular Yeah, we're planning for tex and purple sun things like that where you can teleport a caster up and then Unload your your payload and then potentially Absolutely, yeah seem that a lot Uh smash rat Only for the bravest and the boldest is this build Warning only do this build if you're uh If you're a rat of the highest courage, okay, like this takes this takes the guts This is the arch warlock your command trait you put the devious adversary on him Which is effectively plus two attacks to his profile. He has two different attacks So he's getting plus four total out of it You give him flaming weapon, of course Which he can always eat a rock to to power out a more powerful cast if he needs to Remember he's got his his his rocks. He can eat which the important thing they do in the spell casting phase is let him reroll cast rolls As part of a double caster He can also it's like his his sort of standard cast might just be to flaming weapon and mystic shield himself and be like, all right Let's go And then his magic item you got a choice here You can either go for the arcane tome if you want to turn him into a triple caster so he could also put something Put like the shield up on himself or cast his own lightning spell or whatever Or you can just give him the griff feather charm out of the new season. So he's got a five up ward Actually quite useful on this guy because then he'll be three up five up, which is a very good save profile His gc trait is either fueled by gurish rage or tunnel master depending on what you want Either give him the three up to make sure that he absolutely positively hopefully won't die at the end or tunnel master to move him around it's not It depends on like do you have the rats to skitter leap in and stuff like that as to how you or how necessary that particularly is Um, it gets even better if you have a claw lord with a warp stone charm as a buddy who wants to follow him around And they become a little little pack of death the two of them the two heroes just boldly roaming around the board Uh killing things like and if you happen to be fighting someone where they don't have any real ranged power Like you're fighting another melee army Then the two of them can just go wander free free form and not have to worry too much about anything They're going to run into um You know the and the other part of that combo that i'm not mentioning is in the combat phase he can eat a rock To give himself plus one to hit and and wound Oh, nice So that puts him down on threes and twos With his main attacks instead of fours and threes minus two ren look at him Oh, yes Minus two ren two damage and minus two ren three damage baby and that goes to uh, you're going to overcharge the storm halbered Rolling ones be damned who cares Uh like just just do it just do it. Which is another reason to take the griff feather charm That way you got a chance to shrug off some of the mortal wounds you're going to inevitably do to yourself Um, but you're going to make you know d6 plus two halberd attacks and and uh and three claw attacks um, so This dude Will get in there and do work and by the way not an expensive boy somebody called him a discount uh Somebody called him discount a war bringer and I agree like with this build. He's 150 points like I mean he is one of the most destructive little dudes and this is all in a 32 mil base Yeah All right getting this guy fighting in the hero phase With uh the heroic action. Jesus step aside exalted heroes Yep, smash rat is here. I look forward to hating him. All right. He's he's great I've played this guy a ton of times and he just I'll tell you what he always works for me This guy like a hundred percent of time this guy works a hundred percent of the time Um, I love this little dork because I just kind of hold him where he needs to be Near units right now in the in the current season to keep him sort of immune to anything I don't want him and then once I feel like I've got their range Strat contained or have other have them distracted with other things He just he gets out there and starts doing the dirty business Just starts lifting units up off the table It's very silly that the uh the two casting wizard Incaven of all places plays like we want a combat hero to play right Because he just he has all the tools right being able to give him plus one hit Being able to buff his attacks being able to buff his damage being able to give him the word save being able to give him the I don't die save Right um and then again Yep, exactly if like when you have the claw lord fighting the same thing He's fighting so they're neg one to save and he goes to rend three. I mean, it's just God I mean he will really tear things up off the table. So The only way he'd be better is if he was base three to hit instead of four So yeah, it's one thing keeping him a little bit in check that warpstone Charm is that tether to a specific phase or just any time it's a it's a verminous hero. That's the key verminous hero But is it phase locked? No warpstone charm is a combat phase only I don't think so. I think it's just been there within three inches of the of the All right here. Let me pull it out. Yeah, I don't remember. Uh, one of the bears Wait, that's not where the hell is it? Uh, warpstone charm clumbered in this check one enemies within three. Yes It's not locked. Okay. So I mean it is it you it plays like a tiny purple sun around Right, that's that's what you're you're paying for because most time when you're taking purple sun in this army You're often doing it now just to get the extra neg one to save oftentimes as part of like some kind of plan of either Shooting the crap out of them and or bringing a bunch of plague monks in as we'll see in a list Or as you mentioned in the list over the weekend, right? Yeah So smash rat Does the work and with his little buddy. Yeah, then he gets free purple sun Plague swarm This is just multiple plague priests with the ability to easily trigger great plays and splash mortal wounds to kill enemy gcs And do all those kinds of things like you actually have quite a bit of splashy splashy interesting targeting Mortal wound options that can that can just go ahead and fire gcs right off the table with this um They're very limited that uh, they're they're basically all either closest unit the closest enemy unit or just enemy hero uh, and enemy hero one is one that uh opponents should be very careful to play around but uh People there is counter play right there's the ability to see is for most of the mortal wounds. Yep uh, and we talked about the the the Sort of plague play earlier and finally sharpshooters Skaven don't actually care about drops So your gutter runners who are infantry can actually all go into sharpshooters like that's just a thing you can do Um one of this battalion that they put in here that they thought was going to counter their gc thing But nobody wants to take it because everyone wants to be low drop screw that in skaven I'm like 12 to 14 drops every time um and Like of course i'm gonna do that and then why not throw those guys in sharpshooters and just let them then pick off gcs with their mortal wound Throws like then they get to ignore enemy gc rules and they can pop up, you know They just pop up and then zip zap Die That's it. Just throw some rocks throw some rocks So yeah, there you go Those are some and what else what else did I what are the things nick? Did I miss what other what other fun? This sort of tricks and tactics. What's skaveny tricks? Well, I I mean the uh double pylon from triple master clan hero has some fun interactions with like doom wheels doom wheels are Uh questionable maybe but there's certainly a lot of fun Uh, and they do mortal wounds every time they finish a move within an inch of the enemy or move over an enemy Very high movement 46 random movement But with the double pylon from master clan they can Do mortal wounds on a two up when they move over a unit and then end outside of three And then they can do mortal wounds when they charge the unit and then mortal wounds when they pile in the first time And mortal wounds when they pile in the second time from that second From from master clan, uh, which master clan is when you pile in the first unit in your army during a phase All of your other units during combat can make a pylon So, uh, that's a fun play. I I really like the doom wheels In that specific build like I said a lot more fun than they are effective, but there's no profile there Are you always? Uh, checking the dice with the 2d6 and hoping you don't roll double So you you always, uh, you always overcharge the Overcharge the movement Correct. Okay. Okay. All right When you recharge the movement your opponent gets to move up and that's that's real bad It's kind of interesting. I mean you get a purple sun out Minus two rents The shooting attack on the doom wheel is not bad. Yeah, it's not what it used to be Like in the back in my day You see how the doom wheel used to work. You see tyler Was back when we played jacks down at the soda shop Uh, we you your doom wheel used to be able to shoot its lightning through buildings and intervening impassable blocking terrain And would generate d6 hits of a random strength of the artillery die Meaning if you rolled well, it did d6 strength 10 hits and boy. Oh boy. Was that good I'm because you had three of those shots. So any who? It's not as good as it used to be, but it's still good The vermin lord you didn't mention the warp now vermin lord is exceptional. Uh, Yeah, it's still around uh, 275 Or was 275. I'm not sure which way you got adjusted, but uh, he's just as good as the other vermin lords at a discount price um Devious adversary is something that you basically always take in a scaven list on one hero unless you're a very exclusively shooting list So having heroes that don't depend on dvs adversary is really good. Uh, so let's do attacks Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay Breach can function just fine without it. So I like him as a second vermin lord That's a prick I guess Yeah, it's a it's a fun army to play The like I mentioned earlier the death master popping out and counting his 10 on objectives will win games Just yeah, that's cool. I'd have to do from your opponent that they were counting on will win games Especially as mentioned that they can pop out after the unit's been killed You don't have to actually reveal them so you don't risk them They waste all their attacks They kill the unit he pops out with one more to wound and then since they're being like, okay You're still locked in combat and I'm 10 guys So you're done. Yeah, you're done. Like that's it for you now. Okay It's it's like it's a crazy strong ability that gets underestimated a lot a lot a lot um Brandon s said what is the core of this army if there is one and Warpstone enjoyer said I can give you four to five decent lists And the only unit they'll have in common is maybe clan rats and I agree that like clan rats are ultimately the base They're one of the most efficient cheap chaff units in the game. You get 20 wounds for 100 points They restore a d3 models every battle shock phase not just yours. They have plus two to run in the retreat and charge On them. I mean, they don't do any damage. They effectively you treat them as a unit that does zero damage They are worth nothing in combat. They are warm bodies that stand in the way But they're incredibly valuable. I almost never leave home without my clan rats. Uh, so it's just They they just end up being like one of your best body to points ratios to just get in there soak up moons Beyond points do the things you need units to do so In the world of chaff they are they are maybe one of the best The plague furnace, uh, which it gives a big bubble of battle shock community Is Deceptively tanky it will tank way more than it Then your opponent certainly will think that it does It's minus one to hit if it's near friendly because all of these non monster heroes are minus one to hit if they're near three or more It's minus one to wound in melee And it has a five up ward four up save 14 wounds. I think it's on It's about right. Yeah, 15 one of the two It just doesn't die 300 points and then gives this battle shock community if it didn't need to push be pushed It's a lot. It would be a lot better. Uh, does some solid mortal wounds in melee Oh, yeah How consideration I charged in 10 protectors one, uh, Tuesday nights just Let's see what this thing does and I I walked away with like six protectors dead for after a great plague and the mortal wounds that it was Doing to me I Okay, cool. Yeah, would you say it's sneaky good? Does it qualify? I would yeah, I think it's perfectly valid and it's not that it's it's Ironically, it's the much better of the two Uh Cherry it's and and you know, it's not that expensive That that battle shock immunity bubble becomes higher value every day Right is what I'll say. Um, and so depending on your the particulars of your army Um, it may be extremely valuable Um, you know, but that the problem is eventually that dumb thing's gonna end up sitting there on its own Because you're gonna run out of rats to push it around. That's what happens in the yeah That's the problem with it. Like I Apparently kane is allowed to just get chariots that are full of blood and can drive themselves around but rats with all of their technology Uh, we we can't like we literally have a giant wheel that drives itself around the board But we can't crack the make this thing move on its own Uh technology so I don't know whatever. It's fine. I mean it's such an incredibly obvious achilles heel Yeah, right and like Yeah, it's it's it is a problem Especially as the game goes on Um, so Okay, let's look at some lists and there's first list. I do have a mistake. I realized it after I had already copied it over So I'm sorry in advance everybody. I apologize Um, so I made a mistakey in my my first list here. Please forgive. Please too forgive Okay So Uh, here's my first list. Uh, we got the this has the um This has the the the smash rat Uh general, okay in the arch warlock Um, we've got we got slink We didn't talk about slink because he's not a gc since he's unique But old slink skittershank and his boys. I cannot explain it is so hard for me not to put these five dopes in a list I love these guys. They are liquid hot death. Yeah They can pop up closer that they don't like they're they they they don't have to pop up nine inches away They pop up closer than that pop out of terrain very valuable D three mortals on their on on slinks shooting in melee and and and they're they're they're uh from their eschen toxins Really really good. Um, this is also using the death master shadow magnet trinket Uh storm vermin combo. So sure. Why don't you? Um, and then we've got a master molder and four rat ogre buddies because why not We've got a claw lord to but to follow around The we don't have the warpstone charm because I ran out of stuff, but that's fine. There's probably a way you could build this to do that um Just but he's just there to be a plus one attack thing for the storm vermin or whatever he needs to do And we've got a gray seer with skitter leap because of course we do Uh 20 clan rats 20 clan rats already mentioned the storm vermin the rat ogres five gutters five gutters So that way we've got three units that are off board popping up and in dropping mortal wounds like it's hot And then we've got five plague sensor bearers just to be around They're just around they're just a nice little beta strike to sit behind one of the The clan rats and and have fun or to sit behind the storm vermin and have fun or whatever We've got a warlord battalion a sharp shooters battalion a galatian command and a galatian veterans Let's just use all of them. Um, see if you can spot the error I'll just tell you the error the error is that I accidentally put the rat ogres into the sharp shooters battalion And they shouldn't be in there because they have too many wounds to be infantry wounds. Yeah, right, correct Um, you just it's that I just I put the I clicked the wrong units when I was putting things in there So sorry. Yeah, I noticed it afterward when I was managing the four battalions and like scrolling up and down and assigning everything I I screwed one up. So sorry about that everybody Um, all that just with uh, you know pretty simple uh, 1990 149 wounds Good old 14 drops Can't go wrong Um, so what are your what are your thoughts on this one? It's got a lot of neat pieces and I think it it shows the the modularity of the book Yeah Master Mulder and four rat ogres and they are good enough that without any other Mulder supporter nod to Mulder They are an incredible addition to the army. They could be any scaven list, right any scaven list that has that many points They will fit in beautifully Likewise, uh, the death master and storms orman same story. They're they're a power payer. They can slot in anywhere Slink, uh, is like you said just incredible and then sensor bears There's a lot of ways to to juice them up But using them like this where they're just Five dudes that are going to slap something off the table Is is perfectly valid perfectly fine There's there's nothing forced about a list like this You can just pull in the the pieces you want You could easily swap out The the gutter runners and their 200 points for a warp lightning cannon and work in uh an engineer Be a long range shooting threat instead of a close range deep strike shooting threat and that would be fine too, right? This just shows how flexible the book is Yep, absolutely Ridge says this list looks so similar to what I ran against bud last week on the channel awesome Except I had three rattling guns instead of slink and had five battalions. There you go. Yeah, I mean exactly That's just exactly you're saying nick like all these little pieces you can just move around Right, like if you could you could you know slink could go and as you bring in the three Rattling guns those can also go in sharp shooters as has been mentioned Hey, why not let your machine guns target, you know gcs and stuff like sure and it's so liberating To not have to worry about battle regiment. Let me just say that you can just like hey Let's actually play with these battalions. Let's let's see what these things are all about, you know Yeah, you don't have to combine the gutter runners because you need to fit into a certain number of slots, right? No Yeah, the the the way the sub factions are these soft incentives with no No hard line forcing choices Is great. Yeah I hate to say events. This looks like a pretty fair list It is it's a pretty fair list. Yeah, that's the thing But it's got like it's got a lot of outs. It has a lot of mobility It has a lot of interesting play to it It'll you know, you've got some interesting off-board play some ambushing units some different ways you can Mess around and sort of you know, play traditional warhammer to interact and mess with the enemy's plans You know, yeah But yeah, it's all fair. It's all fair warhammer. Have you played this or something like this? Yeah, absolutely season. Okay. I have this this is a pretty this is I've run a list like this once But this is a variation on something I've been running for a while like this this looks You know pretty close to an average ish list. I've played many times over the past Since they came out effectively, right? I've played this once in the new season and it was incredibly fun Like it was incredibly fun Yeah, this is struck me as a list that particularly is oriented around Like the first pass at reading the 10 of the new season on what the new season wants you to do When I look at this, I see two obvious Pieces 30 storm barman and four rat ogres But then you have a number of these modular pieces that have Them play I'm learning the arch warlock has interesting play Slink has play Then you have utility pieces with the grace here that maybe it's got some damage spells I don't know that it can do as well other than a cheeky little arcane bolt, but yeah, it's just it's It's not overbearing when it like it's it's not straightforward Whereas we went through a number of loan star lists and they were you know, Gavin's 50 here's 15 shows and here's 15 nights deal with it right I guess the storm vermin have their trick with the trinket But yeah, I do wonder how well this will be able to play into this current season Smaller number of average objectives You you definitely have a lot of gcs which is going to help you achieve battle tactics for gcs Which it sounds like you need to be doing because the book ones are pretty bad on average So yeah, I mean remember five out of six these guys can complete the any gc related thing, right? and and by the way some of the gc related stuff is go kill things and I guess what smash rat will get there, right? He can he can go he can go pick somebody else up Right, that is a doable thing Yeah, so I guess Yeah, I mean you've got some it looks like you have some combo damage plays you got Three shots each from the gutter runners three shots 15. Yep. Yes, you got 30 shots there Uh, I don't know if you have a way to buff both of them, you know, like you could buff one of them Presumably you're you're just you're rolling for hot sexes. Oh, right sixes. Yeah, okay Because Against one. Um, yeah one Against one hero you just get to pick plus one to hit and win, right? I mean and also remember slink and his boys bring in another eight shots of their own Um, yeah, so with but doing d3 mortals on sixes instead of just one. So, you know So I wonder how I just like number one I wonder how well this list could brawl on object on primary scoring would be the first question I would have Like I don't I don't know if it's going to be doing that sufficiently well this season Yeah, I mean my answer has been pretty well from what I've been able to do so far And that's mainly because of things like Like I'm going to let you lift my clan rats, right? Like you're going to you're going to make me do whatever I do I'm not going to have the choice of tempo and that's fine The clan rats are going to be there for a little bubble wrap Maybe you lift him maybe you don't if you don't lift him then I and I'm able to To keep him battle shock immune if I'm able to save one of them, right? Then I'll just retreat him out and let the other units come in and I'll just let him Sit down there and start regenerating d3 every battle shock phase and become a deck chair sitter on the back line Like floating around until they can be back in the fight later on, right? Right and generally like the counter punch of the storm vermin the rat ogre's the sensor barrier Yeah, so they're your beta strike. Yeah, okay, right. It's giving me some daughters of kane feel With the melee oriented daughters of kane, you know a fragile army You have to be very thoughtful about the screens doing the screening and the hammers doing the hammering As opposed to the hammers getting hammered and getting taken off the table and you lose the game, right? Right. So yeah, okay and remember like all scaven you can play a little Risket for the biscuit like if you want to get a little fishy with the rat ogres, you can do so you can missile them off Get them into a situation where they're gonna they're gonna kill a stuff that get torn down And then know that on a three up they're gonna come back that they're gonna pop right back into existence near the master molder Right who can be over near some other battle line protected right after he's whipped him forward and set him off to go Because that buffy gives them less until your next movement phase Mm-hmm. Cool. Right. So like yeah, let them go let them go nuts. Just send them out there They go ham. They tear some stuff down. Sure. Maybe they die It's like 24 wounds on a four up save if they can get brought down Okay, such as life and then on a three up they're back Bing See if you can do it again Yeah, it's there because remember It's very easy to get them to twos and twos neg one two damage on their attacks four attacks each and they They also double hit on sixes Yeah Okay, like they have built-in double tabs. I was very like said, yeah Nick watching your game or one of the games I've seen that I was very impressed by them What they could do for their points. So yeah I think, uh, you know, I'd make a couple changes here I'd probably pull the griff feather charm and make that either scaven brew or uh workstone charm And I I'd lean toward death frenzy in this list instead of skitter leap because you are going to be in scenarios where you're you're expecting to lose a unit and so if they can Lift what went into them? In the exchange, that's really good But uh, those are personal preference choices. I think I think it's what's what's scaven brew doing Plus one attacks, but it does d3 mortal wounds to the unit you put it on Okay, so you throw in the hero phase give him plus one attacks. Um It can further juice up things like the rat ogres, which then can be healed by the master folder Or make the storm vermin even more killie Which they typically don't need but You know, it's another way to get at the plus one attack Like there's some scaven brew is such another we didn't mention at all But it's such a good magic I don't because it can give that plus one attack to different units As you mentioned the rat ogres can heal out of it The storm vermin don't generally care about losing d3 guys like oh no and It's not conflicting like one of the problems with the claw lords plus one attack Is it's happening in the combat phase when you may want to be All out attacking or or doing something else Whereas this is just a hero phase buff that gets locked onto them And then they're good to go and now they can now they can be happy and get other combat phase buffs. So yep Absolutely scaven brew is another another hot often common pick by me for sure This one I really just wanted to showcase smash rat more than anything and he soaks up a lot of the the oxygen in the room Um Okay, uh, let's look at another list here Go ahead scroll down. There we go Is this the Sorry, okay, here we go. All right. Yes All these are just text. Uh, all right By the way, I had to I want you to know tyler. I read remade all these lists you sent me to get this because Uh, just so you know, you cannot forward lists like that it generates garbledy goop of nothing That I can actually copy and print But that's fine. So these aren't like I have the battalions assigned. I don't know who was in what battalion I couldn't be bothered to take the time and figure it out and retrace out who was in what battalion Oh, are we in to one of jacob's list here? Yes. So, yeah, this is no, this is jacob's. Yeah, so you want to you want to So you want to introduce this? Yeah, no, absolutely. Uh, so jacob brandon. He was the highest ranked Scaven player for itc last year did really well Uh, he I'd reached out to him and he sent us some thoughts and a couple of lists And this was the first one. So I might let you just go through it here Sure. So he's very very interesting different take. So once again, we're pulling the deathmaster shadow magnet trinket trick here with the Storm vermin and the galatian command then we're then everything else is going to be wrapped up into a warlord He's using the claw lord as his general Um with powerful alpha and the warpstone charm and the fueled by gurish rage This guy is just going to be very hard to kill So that he can fueled by gurish rage is doing a lot of work here to just power up his extra attacks and keep him alive And because he wants to be in the fight giving people that neg one to save Uh, and then just getting reaping the benefits of a bunch of extra attacks The gray seer has death frenzy for the reasons you mentioned earlier nick of like you're going to be doing some trading with your Storm vermin and stuff like that So let's let's keep that to be the most choppy choppy valuable trade And then we have the engineer who's got a little shield because he doesn't need more more war power because this guy's point Is to mostly power up warp lightning cannons Uh and just use a spark on jizzales So he's going to sit back there with your artillery crew, which is double cannon double jizzale He's going to sit back there with them. Uh, he's going to he's going to use his magic spark to give the jizzales each Some bonus damage and he's going to overpower both the cannons and create this little firing platform of death of crazy damage coming out of artillery hill And then you've got a big giant unit of gun runners that pops out and then two small units to sort of skirmish and cause problems behind their lines and then 20 clan rats to act as very basic chaff so Very different take on the list just shows how sort of versatile is it uses one of the same tricks Uh, and yet is a completely different path to victory Right. Yeah So yeah, neck any uh real quickly powerful alpha. Maybe you said I missed it. What's that do the command trade? Powerful alpha on the claw lord. Do you guys know the command trade? The one breaking about anything Oh, okay. I can I can look it up. Yeah, Nick any thoughts on this list? I think it's good Like I said, I mean I said it for the last one too. The modularity is here, right? He took Two pieces or so out of that last list Slotted it in here completely different Back end to it with the the cannons and the jizzales long-range shooting That's going to make this play completely different This is going to be more of a castle style I would imagine with the ability to deep strike some gutter runners But the castle has the the Carrot right your opponent can't ignore being shot by warp lightning cannons and jizzales forever Sure, you're going to be able to centrally Block out one objective very well with the storm vermin and then play a harassing shooting role on the other one with the and its gutter runners Kind of gunner runners there I would guess part of their job is to help with objective holding after you've cleared off You know some models from a unit initially So when you get 15 of them, it's 15 really They're not going to hold a lot. Sure. Oh, yeah, I guess maybe Unleash hell when they die. Okay, got it. Oh, that's right. Thank you, ridge Yeah, powerful alpha is the first two wounds that he suffered in each phase are negated Yeah, just saw that here. Yeah, yeah So again, just keeping that guy alive right to just like he can be in combat between all these things and just like live And and he'll just chip down and slowly gain more attacks becoming more dangerous while giving everybody that neg one to save Um and buffing up the the the storm vermin. Yeah, I mean I I like this list a lot. It shouldn't be Like let's not underestimate the fact that those gutter runners put out 75 shots Uh-huh Right That's the actual number of shots coming out of them with sixes to hit being mortal wounds 30. Oh, yeah total. Yeah for the 25 Yeah Like point for both they do more damage than sentinels Buffed sentinels interesting Yeah, it's uh, it is a Wild amount of damage that those guys will put out if you're able to to basically like maintain and navigate the ranges of them You know one of the challenges is obviously that you are talking about a 12 inch range On a on a unit that's popping up potentially nine inches away, right? So you've got a A relatively thin space there, but you can fit them three deeps as long as you can go three by five You're good. Everybody's in range. So You can also shoot them out on uh an extreme flank and take off Whatever's holding that side and then they get to run and shoot So even after they're popping out they've got the mobility to get their shots online in the next turn Yep Yep And because they're the faster base move of seven inches the run actually ends up making a big deal When you've got that unit running around and shooting at like 10 inches with a 12 inch We're each having a 22 inch threat range is pretty pretty respectable on average. So yeah Absolutely Okay, yeah seems pretty good cool stuff And this one's 123 wounds with 13 drops again Just so you're gonna see all these drops be like a million because who cares like who can't Ever it's it's so liberating free yourself from the shackles of battle regiment join the horde today And then this is jacob's other list So this one's using the engineer with griff feather charm And the lighting shield again He's got the death master with devious adversary in the shadow magic and fueled by girish rage Then he's got big old big big boy. Thank well, we haven't talked about him much because obviously he's a big big monster hero But obviously still quite good using the projectors Again with that 15 gutter runner pack 20 rats 20 clan or 20 clan rest 20 clan rats five gutters five gutters and then he has the the The artillery hill again, but this time we've also got launched in the soul seeker in here who can shuffle around Thank well, and you know make him very scary as he can be be dropped off Very close to them in a in a period where they don't want him to be dropped off like that They just it makes him very very very very mobile, right? Obviously. Oh, yeah In a way that makes those those projectors maximum scary And thank well at the end of the day is a spell dom too. He's he's got Yeah, plus three to unbind and then the knoll hole access An ability to 3d6 cast like a grace here But you typically don't with him because his bonuses are good enough that you with the 3d6 cast you don't get your bonuses Right, so you typically want to ride on his bonuses but His unbinding power is A big reason to bring him in a list Yeah, having a double unbinder with plus three is such a huge deal and shutting down the you know Sort of key spells your enemy is trying to get off, right? Absolutely Because it's not like he he doesn't need to dispel every spell or sorry unbind every spell He needs to unbind like those two spells usually Uh, he can pass off wounds. He heals every combat phase and he's got the board so he's sneaky tanky Yeah, yeah, I have a hard time seeing how he's not Number one number two on the board if you're wanting to try to go 5o at a tournament in this season He just seems so good to me on so many fronts. I mean for example, jacob was mentioning that he's thinking about sentinels big units in general squigs big units of squig hoppers squig herd With four warp fire projectors. That's obviously going to burn down a unit of 36 squigs pretty quickly But there's just a lot of things in this season that I when I think about a lot of the lone star list that think well feels quite good into Given his spell reliability even against techless if you can potentially keep him out of unbind rain I mean techless is going to go first. Maybe he moves into unbind range. Maybe not but Yeah, I I don't know. Nick. He seems really strong to me right now The only downside to think well is that when he's bad? He's real bad Sure. Okay. What do you mean by that? There are a lot of this is running a four warp fire projectors Which is like you said exceptional into squigs exceptional into night haunt There's a lot of this is incredible into But then you get some matchups Where his his damage outside of spell pasting falls to almost zero Yeah, maybe son's a bad mat or Oh, yeah, I mean not Three four ones over the weekend Fair three out of four at lone star. Yeah, three four ones Dead the person who was running the stompa party that we looked at was that one? I believe so. Yeah, I believe so Yeah, so Yeah, all these continent influencers are idiots in my opinion So, yeah, I see no issues there It it feels a little bit rough to have a model that's you know, 520 points because you can always share them with lauchan Sure It feels bad to ever have that many points be lackluster in a game. Yeah You know again something like varan guard heavy kotet He's not good, right? Yeah, that makes sense But He's still really strong In enough of the field that he gets you there a lot of the time Vince what do you think about this list? I like it a lot. Um, I mean like I'm not as much of a fan of the art of sort of the artillery focused Skaven, but it like I've never been uh, I've never been a sad Skaven player Which is what we used to call it back in seventh edition for the for the just like crazy all shooting lists um but the You know the the the nature of the thing is is undoubtedly strong like the way to think about warplock just air Sorry warplock. Yeah, the way to think about warplighting cannons Is you get when they're overcharged you get two shots with them On average Um, like that's usually what I mean by that is like if you sort of math that out you're rolling 12 dice So on average you roll two ones you take 2d3 wound 2d3 mortals, right? Which on average doesn't you know Half your wounds to you or whatever right the the first time you roll the second time you shoot You shoot you do all the damage and then you blow yourself up. That's pretty much the way it's gonna work So it's a it's a it's an artillery piece with its own self destruct timer effectively when you use it like this, right? So and and your desales are very fragile as as previously mentioned There's there's quite a few things that that will just sort of get them gone pretty quickly Um, you know as was always the case with with like long strikes and similar pieces, right? If the enemy had a way to reach out and sort of kill you first or splash on to you But it's more it's even more dangerous here because their save is is bad and their Um, and their bravery is utter trash So it's very easy for them to run away and things like that. So but all you know all your shooters are real sensitive to The the progression of the game Does that make sense like that's that's that's what often holds me back from them Like all scaven is on a bit of a timer, you know um, because you you you will you will tend to Scaven is about taking risks and you you will sort of like fail enough of those risks over time often that you know By turn four or five you you get some things that are working against you Unless unless things break positive It's always what keeps scaven from being sort of super powerful as you you do a lot of damage to yourself That's just what happens, you know I know this violates your scaven sensibilities vince what i'm about to say Sure, but it is possible to shoot this cannons without overcharging Don't believe it never seen it happen Like i'm sure you're telling the truth, but I don't understand I I love the way they can play in a game theory point of view where when you are disadvantaged You load them up when you overcharge, right? Sure. Uh, and when you're not when you just need them to do solid Right, you just need status quo to maintain Then you don't overcharge them. Sure in theory. Like you said, it's never happened. Nobody's ever not nobody's ever done that Now you go you go 12 or nothing, baby. Yeah, I mean, there's there's thank you ridge. Absolutely as rich said heresy There's but you're right There's sort of no reason you can't like in the first round if you've got two good shots Try to eliminate two targets or put heavy damage in and then from then on you use six and six until like Okay, now's the time I need to kick and then you turn them back all the way up in round three or four and be like, okay Let's go or when they're, uh, you know, yeah, your opponent's finally going to get to them. So It doesn't matter if they die anyway, right? So you are correct You can do that That is nonsense, uh, but you can do it. It is possible Um, yeah, and there we go. So I hope that gave everybody some lists any final thoughts nick any final thoughts on scaven here I I think we've covered it pretty well. I I love the book. I I wish there were elements of it that were a little bit more powerful um to To crowd out some of the things that are kind of just naturally powerful to to compete better with them in an internal point of view, but I I love the modularity. I love that there are so many different options and this combinatorial problem of which which of the options am I going to slot in here and Uh, I think it's very well positioned into this new general's handbook. Um, More so than it was in the last one, certainly But, uh, I think more so than it will be in most specifically this This rule set is very good for Yeah Nick, if you're trying to go 50 at a tournament, what kind of list are you running? Are you running like a mixed arms a little melee a little shooting? Are you leaning more heavily in a particular direction? Is my only goal to get 50 in this hypothetical scenario or do I want to do it with style? Let's do both. Sure. Uh, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna pack a Uh, a death master and some storm vermin and I'm going to run a warbringer And then I'm probably going to see if I can squeeze in that six storm fiends Uh A scryer hero of some kind to maybe sit them. Uh, and then as many clan rats as I can afford on top of that Okay. Okay. One by six or two by three storm fiends I'm getting into the details at this point, but I'm just here. It doesn't necessarily matter I would probably run two by three right now if they were my only Scrier unit. Okay interesting Now was that the style or was that pure filth Well, so I wouldn't run the storm fiends if I if I was going for style. Okay. Well, we're running Uh, I I'm gonna have my my warbringer. I'm gonna have a help hit a nomination uh, and I'm gonna It would be very similar like to our recent, uh, escape and battle report on the channel Where I had the the death master package Uh, and I had some some melee units to accompaniment Mm-hmm. I um, although molder is really compelling right now, so I'd probably work in a master molder and um Two units rat overs and a universe rats Okay, having just giant rats coming back on a three for a command point. Yeah is really good, you know, quite good But it's another screen, right? Yeah, absolutely I mentioned at the top I was playing some escalation recently And I had a thousand point game on my scaven against gentlemen Just last week And I set up my six giant rats at the very beginning of the game And I said these rats are going on a pilgrim inch and he was playing ogre and there was a And I knew there wouldn't be a scenario where he wanted to commit a unit of ogres into those giant rats So they were just walking across the board the whole time Even that little bit of utility bringing back a unit like that can be really really strong Yeah, so so shawn in the comments asked please elaborate on how to make storm fiends work for you I walk away disappointed every single time Well, I mean i'll give my answer which is and then nick i'm curious as to yours I mean the traditional answer is more more war power and you spark them And if you're talking about a one by six or a two by three it doesn't matter But your general armament is going to be the the wind launchers the rallying guns and then the melee guy Right, that's sort of your traditional ranged power armament And you know in that package where they're under that sort of Set of buffs they just do quite a lot of damage Because whether you whether you have them in two by three or or or one by six the spark can still hit both of them Because as previously mentioned the plus one damage spark can be on up to three units As long as they're all in the appropriate range The only difference is the more more more power sort of being able to to get everything you need And you know when when you put that whole unit under plus one to hit and wound and plus one damage like that's a set of Powerful buffs that's gonna really just and then it's just about target priority You know, what are you shooting at what's gonna gonna actually Where are you gonna have the effect there? Sometimes that can mean by the way splitting your shots Um, like it's it's it's the type of thing where you shouldn't be afraid to if there's if there's a reasonable target You can hit that has a good armor save and your wind launchers have the chance to actually get in there and do some damage You know bring the rend to bear there I mean well put the rallying guns into You know a mass of something where that's that's just where the the two damage neg one rend is gonna have much more effect Like uh, that that's a completely viable thing to do and as they take wounds the melee guy dies first I guess that's what I would say Nick what did I what did I miss there? Echo all of that the You know only thing I'd maybe add is that they're a unit that is hurt less by The shooting protection than most shooting units because they're not a unit that you're You're often relying on killing heroes with you're often just clearing their area Get into a place bring them out of a gnaw hole and clear the units that are close to them And you know throw some long range shots with the wind launchers potentially into something It's great when you can Soul screen bridge them or get them into something Techless and shoot it off the table. That's awesome But oftentimes them just killing bodies and then just killing troops is the best use of them and Just uh clear their space it's it's a lot like playing ko ko you want to bring your cast And clear that area Yeah, and a purple sun helps Purple sun helps. Yeah, have have a dude who can skid or leap sun and then and then bounce that will that will increase their efficacy again A lot I think that a lot of people often tend to just like take them and try to point them at some big monster hero with like saves And wards And if you do that that's just like the worst inefficient use of them because they will just tend to horribly Underperform against that type of an enemy like some monster hero who's three up five up You know, it's just it's just not a great target for them. Yeah, you look at the wind launchers You're like, oh, it's great rend I can punch through and yeah, but you know, they'll they'll they'll bleed off enough with the ward save and with the occasional saves and so on that they'll You just don't get anything out of them When you put them into the bulk of their army the stuff that's on like a four up save and a five up save It pays massive dividends because especially with the spark You just start lifting people and that's what matters. You're just you're trying to use them to get their wound count down Right, they're just a sieve That's like, okay, we got to get I need to take 20 wounds off your army this turn Let's do it with these guys into that and let's get that unit either horribly thinned or gone completely Right, right and I'll just watch out for four up rallies If you teleport them in and your opponent maybe you're playing against Nurgle and they've got Orgots and you teleport them in and you say Orgots is a priority target and my My storm fiends are going to be how I deal with it and the storm fiends kill Orgots Which they're not guaranteed to do he can very easily survive this, but let's say they kill them You've now spent a 640 point unit to kill a 300 point unit and die right back This is a bad trick You need recurring value from them They need to protect themselves by killing their the threats against them that are nearby Echoing what Keith Rogers said it's easy to get them out of position You want to play on the edge with them and make that edge So get them to the edge and then push the edge back as far as you can with their shooting because you're Absolutely, right. Yeah, we just real quickly We mentioned Joe Vuche's list to run through it because he did use two by three storm fiends plus purple sun over the weekend I thought it was a nice for what I know about scaven a nice balance Factors that we've talked about tonight. So he had two plague priest He had a warlock engineer for babysitting with more more warp power for the storm fiends babysitting the two warp lightning cannons in his list A gray seer master magic scaven brew as the general death frenzy two by 30 plague monks Two by three storm fiends Purple sun warlord vanguard. So I really like that list, you know, Joe's great player. It's not too surprising He went for one with it. But when I think about that kind of I'm think, you know, it's got that balance of distance With the range projection to warp lightning cannon storm fiends But also really meaningful output with the plague monks now He doesn't have like 20 clan rats that he can put in in front of the 30 plague months So he has to be careful about not just getting them blown up before they can do some work But I just thought that was a nice balance potentially with a scaven list For for what I understand and then the shorter range of the plague priests with the great plagues and the various buffs that they can do for the plague monks plague monks are not typically all that punchy but pairing them with a Purple sun is going to get a little bit more output out of right Juice up here shooting output. It's a purple sun is a big force multiplier on something like storm fiends And he had a curse as well, of course on both plague priests. Yeah, and yeah, juicing up the attacks and yeah Looking to lean into that. So yeah, interesting list Very good. All right, everybody. Well, thank you very much. Hey, don't forget hit like if you haven't already subscribe do all those fun things Uh, but hitting buttons is easy and fun and free and helps support the channel and helps other people find the show which we love Uh Don't uh, don't forget if you want to support the channel with you know dollars You can do so through the patreon link down below. Let's focus on hobby and review and taking your next step on your hobby journey Uh, nick. Hey, sir. Appreciate it. This is great having you back on. Thanks for coming on talking rats Awesome to be here Absolutely for all of you out there, uh, who are watching we thank you so much for watching again And don't worry as always We'll see you next wednesday