 Good morning everyone. Good afternoon. Welcome everyone. We're going to just wait a minute or two so that all of the participants can join. But we invite you to introduce yourself in the chat if you'd like to say hello, maybe say where you're from. We hope this will be a very interactive session. You're all very welcome. And I think we'll have participants from Ireland and elsewhere so it'll be interesting to see where people are from. You're all very welcome. Okay. I think we'll get started and good afternoon here in Ireland, or good morning or good evening if your time of day is different. My name is Catherine Cronin and I'm delighted to welcome you to today's national forum webinar data literacy, privacy and protection in higher education. On behalf of the national forum we're really grateful that you are sharing your time with us today. Over the next hour, you'll hear from three invited speakers on the key issues of data literacy, data privacy and data protection. And after those presentations will be an opportunity for questions and discussion. We have a few housekeeping details before we do start. We are using webinar mode today but we very much want to encourage discussion and questions and chat. So if you haven't done so already. Please say hello in the chat function. Say hello say where you're from whatever you'd like to share with us. You're welcome to use the chat function as we go along to post your questions, but we've also enabled the Q&A feature so if you have any particular questions that you want to be sure and pose to the panelists, you can pop your questions in there. There are many people on the national forum team who are here in the webinar as well today. Colin Lowry is working in the background making sure that the tech is working and Claire McAvinia is going to keep an eye on questions so that we can be sure to raise those at the end. So if you are on Twitter, we're using the hashtag NF digital as you can see. We use this for all national forum events and announcements related to digital teaching and learning. And just to let you know we are recording the session, both the video and the chat, and we'll send this to all registered participants, and it'll be posted on the national forum website after the event. So I'd like to welcome and introduce our three guest speakers today. Kevin McStravick is Deputy President and President of Academic Affairs at the Union of Students in Ireland. Welcome Kevin. Hello, the O'Sullivan is Head of Technology Enhanced Learning at Cork Institute of Technology. Welcome Gerobe. And our international guest is Bonnie Stewart, Assistant Professor of online pedagogy and workplace learning at the University of Windsor in Canada. Welcome Bonnie. So in terms of the overall webinar. I will give a short maybe four minute introduction to our topic today, including some related survey findings, and then Kevin will provide a student perspective on these issues. Gerobe will give a staff and institutional perspective, and Bonnie will share results from her recent research and a long standing body of work in the area of digital and data literacies. And again, we invite your questions and comments because really we're all learning together about these issues. So let's get started. We're talking about data today, and we know from conversations across the sector, particularly in recent months, recent days, that there is a collective sense of concern around the use of data, in terms of within higher education and in society, and this concept of datafication transformation of individuals actions and interactions into quantified data. A recent paper by Bonnie Stewart, one of our guest speakers, gives I think a perfect introduction to the webinar today and this is slightly adapted Bonnie as algorithmic decision making and data collection become pervasive in higher education. So, as educators and students make sense of the systems that shape life and learning in the 21st century. So that's really the large context about this webinar and why we're here today. There's also a more specific context, and that is that today's webinar arose out of our analysis of the findings of the index survey here in Ireland. So, as many of you know, about a year ago, the National Forum coordinated a national survey of digital experiences and higher education in partnership with students and staff across the sector at 32 institutions. And the aim of that survey was to highlight what makes a difference to students and staff, providing an evidence base to inform decision making and future enhancement of digital teaching and learning. We had, as you can see, nearly 30,000 respondents to the survey, and the National Forum report was published last May on the findings, the national findings. We know that the findings have been used widely across the sector within individual institutions, for example, we know that they have shared and benchmarked their institutional findings. They have shared student focus groups to dive deeper into the data. They've improved communications with students and staff about things like privacy policies, enhanced staff induction and informed digital strategies. But the National Forum also has continued to analyze the national data set and we've produced a set of infographics to complement the initial findings report. We have a paper qualitative analysis and published a briefing paper, and all of that is available on the website as shown there on the slide teaching and learning.ie forward slash index. So, overall, really given all that's happened since the start of the pandemic index is considered to be a unique and valuable data set at a critical time that data was gathered in the months before the pandemic. So, very briefly about the findings. The index survey instruments for students and staff were necessarily different, but a lot a lot of the questions were matched so that we could learn about student and staff views on key issues and compare them. And this, our index survey was based on just digital experience insight survey adapted for Irish higher education, and this adaptation of an existing survey enabled us to do international benchmarking. So, this holistic approach. We presented our findings in these five themes so that the two bubbles at the top of this diagram, focus on the individual. So we, we learned about the digital teaching and learning practices like what students and staff actually do in terms of using the VLE and other digital tools and spaces. Attitudes to digital focused more on what students and staff think and feel about their use of digital technologies and resources. So three circles really focused more on institutional digital capabilities so digital infrastructure, digital skills development support and digital environment and culture. And this is the area where we have findings related to the webinar today. So there are findings here about student data protection, student well being staff information about data protection and privacy. And from our conversations with the sector, particularly in light of the current context, we know that this is an area of critical interest and importance, and that's really how this webinar arose. So I'll very briefly in just two slides share some of the key index findings in this area, because I know that at least Kevin and girl they're going to refer to these in their presentations. So briefly for students, very briefly, just over one half of students agreed that the institution protects their data privacy. However, a large minority were neutral. 30% of student respondents agreed that they were told how their personal data is stored and used, but over 30% disagreed and again the most common response was neutral. And for intense students agreed that their institution helps them to stay safe online. Again, the most common response was neutral. In terms of international benchmarking these were similar to the findings from the UK, Australia and New Zealand for a similar survey. As for staff. Just over half of staff agreed that they were informed about their responsibilities with respect to managing learner data securely. They disagreed to the proportion of students who answered similarly, but only 15% agreed that they were informed about their responsibilities with regard to ensuring students behave safely online, and three times as many staff disagreed with the statement. So, in looking at these findings and engaging and following discussions with the sector. They clearly highlight gaps in knowledge, confidence and processes around data privacy data protection and online safety on the part of students, staff and institutions. And we know that these issues are only going to become more relevant in our current context. So, I'd like to just do a very quick poll for the benefit of all of the speakers and perhaps all of the participants as well. Just to help us focus what we're what we're going to cover today. We know there are very, very many issues that are of concern to people. So if you were to choose one item from this list. What key data related topic, would you expect and hope to be discussed today. And while this is going on I'm going to mute my microphone and let my cat out. I have 80% of people have voted so far. I'll just leave it another few seconds. Okay, that's most now I think we can, we can end the poll calm thank you so much. Very, very interesting so our is a good spread across with the top being defining data literacies and how we go about enhancing data literacy for students and staff. And student data in the VLE 13% considerations when using third party apps is also important for participants. These are things like polling apps, social media, padlet and so on. Also important about discerning what are the specific responsibilities of students staff would teach managers and others. Also some interest in policy development and a few people interested in discussing considerations when using surveillance technologies. I'll close that. And with that, I would like to introduce Kevin McStravick to give a student perspective on some of these issues. Thank you Kevin. Hi everybody. Thanks very much to Catherine for the opportunity to speak at this event. I'm really looking forward to hearing from the other two speakers into the Q&A at the end. And thanks also Catherine for setting the scene in terms of the responses from the index survey in the area of data privacy and protection. So as Catherine has mentioned, my name is Kevin McStravick. I'm the Deputy President and Vice President for Academic Affairs for the Union of Students in Ireland, which represents 374,000 students across the island of Ireland. And our primary responsibility is to protect and to defend the rights of students. And a large part of that would be in their role and their studies in higher education. And so my presentation today is going to largely focus on the lessons learned from the index survey, but also talk about some of the topical issues in the area of data privacy and protection. And so looking to the results that Catherine already took us through in terms of the index survey and just an immediate response to maybe what that tells us about student attitudes towards data privacy and protection. Well I see what I've seen is the results of the overwhelming consensus from most of the questions in that area was neutral, which some level of apathy in terms of students attitudes towards how their institution protects their data. And you may have noticed that there was quite a large degree of apathy when it came to the question around whether the institution tells them how they store their data as well. I think it also indicates a level of lack of confidence. I think data privacy and protection in particular can be quite a unwieldy topic and things that GDPR can feel quite, I suppose, quite intimidating to everybody, but particularly the students. So there is certainly an indication from the results in the index survey that there is somewhat of a lack of confidence amongst the student body when it comes to discussing some of these types of issues. And finally, and something that I think is quite important is this isn't the problem unique to Ireland. And you can see that from the benchmarking of the index survey against similar surveys that have been carried out in the United Kingdom and also in Australia and New Zealand. Moving on then to talk about some of the topical issues. And I suppose that the interesting thing is that some of these issues have emerged, particularly over the last number of months as a result of COVID-19 and the impact that that's had on the way in which we are now teaching and learning. So the first one is online proctoring and that's something that many of you will be quite familiar with. I'm not going to go into detail about what it is because I'm asking most people will have an idea but it's essentially where online assessment is being carried out and online proctoring software is used to essentially replicate the role of the invigilator in the traditional exam where they can view the screen of those who are completing the assessments to ensure that they're not cheating. It is quite a topical issue in a mostly online and learning environment and it has provoked some debate amongst both staff and students particularly regarding data privacy. And I would also add into that conversation that when we understood some research with the summer in response to COVID-19 and received a response from around 1200 students. And we asked a lot of questions around their experience of online learning or distance learning. One of the things that we heard a lot was about the fact that alternative assessment was preferred where it wasn't replicating the anxiety that many students feel when they are in the exam hall setting, setting the traditional exam. And so attempts to try and sort of replicate that environment online is likely to provoke similar levels of anxiety amongst students. If we turn to data analytics and I'm sure that that's something that will be covered in the presentations to come but there is an increase in interest in the use of data analytics for a range of different things including modern student engagement also predicting student performance and it does have the potential for real enhancement but it's just does need to be carefully considered and I think it's also really important that it isn't used to entirely freeze out the role, the very important role that student voice and student dialogue plays in terms of trying to enhance student engagement and trying to improve student performance as well. Data breaches in third level and an increasingly online environment that is somewhat inevitable that there will be an increased risk of data breaches and that's something that has happened both nationally and internationally. There have been many cases over the last number of years and I believe there was some research carried out by RedScan in the UK and it was released over the summer that found I think was around 54% of the UK University that they had received information from via freedom of information and that had reported at least one or two data breaches over the last year. So it is an increasingly difficult topic in an area that lots of institutions are trying to navigate and finally again something very topical is let's record and this is something that has been long called for particularly from the perspective of accessibility of learning but it's particularly topical I suppose in the mostly online environment that we find ourselves in currently and there are some considerations and some debates in relation to what it means for AP, for copyright and all students in the general legal perspective. If we move on then and we talk about how we can improve student digital confidence going back to one of the points I made earlier and I think student awareness of data privacy and protection and goes hand in hand with improved digital capacity and nearly a quarter of students in the index survey when asked if I have an opportunity to improve their digital skills felt that they did not have these opportunities regularly so I think that's something that's really important to consider and because we need to upscale our students awareness but also their confidence and when it comes to a range of different topics related to learning online particularly given the current environment and there's also an increase in ADX kids students on looking after their digital footprint and this is my range of different reasons and but one of them also being the fact that we're living an increasingly digital environment students when they graduate from university or from colleagues will be looking for opportunities for further development they'll be looking for jobs and it's really important to be aware of what they put out there particularly on the social media and so there is definitely a need to consider how we can increase their confidence but also increase their awareness of their digital footprint and student digital confidence is also contingent upon staff having the confidence to execute them and something which I'm so agree will refer to and or some of the findings we index survey in terms of staff and 45% of staff reporting that they don't feel that they're informed of their responsibilities to keep students safe online and then finally it's really important that we also talk about digital learning from the perspective of connection and connecting students in a digital environment and ensuring that they're aware of the supports available to them is really important particularly as it's an increasingly difficult environment at the moment it's a very worrying environment for everybody and students can sometimes feel extremely isolated if they're not having that face to face contact that they may be used to when it comes to higher education and if we then talk briefly about moving forward in an increasingly online environment and so a couple of key considerations in terms of data provision and protection and I think if we're talking about how we can improve students awareness. We need to try and dispel the need to know information and try to communicate that accessible format I think working with class reps and with students unions to develop this message and is really key and create a digital checklist for students learning online and this can be not just what they need to know in terms of their classes but also how can they keep themselves safe protecting passwords so they can store documents safely and ensuring that they use secured software packages and use software in a safe manner as well and ensuring that a cook training is provided to all staff and students and data privacy is absolutely key. If we look then at general digital wellbeing and it's really important that we do make students aware of how they can access support services online. This can include technical and academic supports but also health and wellbeing supports and again taken from the index survey and 42% of students were neutral when they were asked to access and wellbeing supports online. And that's a figure that's relatively consistent with what we find from the research we carried out of summer on students response to COVID-19 when we asked quite a similar question about their awareness of how they could access supports online. And finally going back to what I said in the previous slide. It is extremely important to connect students with one another and particularly with topics around digital confidence and digital literacy. There's definitely a lot of informal peer learning that can be facilitated and this can be really instrumental in improving student digital confidence. That is a bit of a whistle stop tour for me. I'm going to stop sharing my screen and I'm happy to take any questions at the end. Thanks very much. Thank you so much, Kevin. That was quite a bit in your few minutes that you had there. Really appreciate that. I am just adding a little message to the chat while Gero perhaps gets ready to load up his slides. You may wish to check if you're participating in the chat that your two field is set to panelists and attendees because I've seen a good number of messages that were only sent to the panelists. So if that happened to you, feel free to put another message in the chat because we'd like to make sure everyone can see those. And with that I'd like to introduce our second speaker Gero from the Department of Tel at CIT. Welcome Gero. Hi there. Thanks. Thanks very much. And thanks to Kevin, lots to follow up on there. So great to have that student perspective Kevin really interested in what you had to say in particular about proctoring and analytics and video recording. I'll be touching on some of those points myself. If I had any objection to your presentation, Kevin, it was that you were spot on with the time. I hope I can do as well. So look, I just want to kind of start on a kind of a personal note. I didn't do the strong especially for the presentation, but I would like, I suppose to let you all know where I'm coming from really and make it very clear from the get go that I'm not a data person. I'm not a stats person. I'm a qualitative researcher by, by trade and maybe by personality and I'm certainly more about design and learning and lived experience and lots of other loosey goosey kind of stuff like that, you know, I'm also often uncertain whether I should use data as a singular or a plural noun. So apologies for any mix up in my verbs as I go or go along. I do have a job role though that inevitably revolves around metrics and numbers, and increasingly around learning analytics and certainly become used to particularly in recent months, justifying what I'm doing in terms of becoming fluent with things like conversion rates and activity graphs and trend lines and percentage increases and all of that. Good stuff. There's tons of it in our technology enhanced learning strategy so I have become used for some time now I suppose to justify my existence with with numbers. Since the pandemic came along I've been dealing with bigger numbers and then I've been used to and I've been finding myself more obliged perhaps to use data to help me decide what to do and to convince others to to allow me to do what I want to do. So in a word I suppose I'm becoming more data literate. I am gaining more data literacy. I'm becoming a little bit less loosey goosey with things. And I think that some of that is going to be familiar to some of you. So while some of it is unique to me being head of the Department of online learning at a very strange time. I think there's some common stuff here also for anyone who's who's teaching at the moment, and that's even going back to to pre covert times. And it was mostly what I mean here is that there's a lot of educationalists and staff who, who, who teach to borrow a phrase from the index survey, who feel they need to do more with data who feel they need to know more about data to value it more and to be answerable to to questions about how they are about how they are using it. I read somewhere the other day that data for teachers has become the other four letter word. The other four letter word, the original four letter word for teachers is time. And that's kind of something I wanted to talk about first. Maybe one of the reasons I certainly wanted to become more data literate or do more with data is that it just takes up a lot of time and I'm not going to tell you that becoming more data literate is going to make it less busy or give you more time. But I suppose like anything you that you learn the benefits will accrue and compound over time. And let me tell you there are also people would perhaps more time on their hands who are doing stuff with your data are doing stuff with data that relates to you in a way, and it's having an influence on planning and on decision making that that's effect in you so I suppose in a way. You know, that's a kind of a long winded introduction. That's an introduction and informants and put it kind of like an introduction. And maybe a way of kind of explaining what the what the presentation is about it's kind of about me explaining data literacy to myself and hopefully bringing people along along the way. I think people don't get get into data, maybe is because of a perception that it's complicated or that it's hard and certainly data literacy crosses over with statistical literacy. And if like me you're a quality person that's that's a scary thought that's a whole new bunch of skills. I would say though that sometimes you don't need anything by way of statistical knowledge to make an argument or to move from from data to action. This was part of the survey that we did as a follow up to the index survey in in CT. We established that 15% of staff had unreliable internet connections, and we were able to use that as an argument for resourcing and funding of a whole range of different e learning studio spaces. Like the ones you see in front of you and then we use a similar data for students to at least open up a conversation about how to address their needs and it has led quite directly as well as to the roll out of telephone bridging for our for our live conferencing solution. We're not quant people but we do have some some design skills, and this came directly out of both the index survey and data that we that we have, I suppose from our own systems. And I could talk about it all day and I have often talked about that length. Since I put this graphic together on foot of index survey data. I've used it a lot to kind of communicate what we do what we support what the e learning infrastructure looks like. So it's a bit messy. I don't have time to go into it but incredibly useful incredibly good in terms of its communication power and its ability to kind of support conversations. The basic idea is, this is everything that people are using, and the further away you get from the center, the less we're inclined to support you but we're not telling you not to use. I don't know what's up groups or whatever you want to you want to try. But yeah, it has just been a very useful way to leverage conversations. I think that's part of data literacy as well that communication piece. And so I think maybe graphic designers have a role to play. But I mean it is difficult. If you want to do certain things with data. So sometimes if you want to generalize, you want to prove things and you want to search for correlations, you need a lot of cases. And maybe that's the opportunity to make my first explicit reference as opposed to the, to the index survey. And that's to kind of say, well, you know, there were very large numbers involved. So these are impressive numbers. They are numbers that you can convince people with. And not only that, not only can we generalize against them, but we can also benchmark. We can benchmark ourselves against the national average we can aim to be above average. We can also come up with sinister plans to make the average lower so that it comes down to us, perhaps, and not only that, but we can benchmark further field as well as Kevin kind of referenced reference to really earlier. And so I think that brings this the fact that it has become quite a kind of a scary area, I think, you know, so that works on a few different levels, but I mean, some people will remember this we're about to have another presidential election, the last time around. So we took a Facebook quiz and ended up giving Cambridge Analytica permission to harvest all their data and that of all of their friends. We have similarly perhaps become jaded from hearing about data breaches Kevin Kevin referred to the breaches in higher education of course they happen as well. The numbers with the likes of Facebook are just crazy, plus it keeps happening so we think we've heard the story before, but it's a new story. It's just that it has happened already. And isn't there the kind of sense where you think well, if these guys can't mind their data what hope to the rest of us have. I think people are aware of these data breaches and our students and their parents and the broader public have legitimate concerns about what data is being collected from students where it's been kept and how it's being used. And the surveys is really useful in terms of pointing to a kind of an uncertainty there if you like a mixed results is probably the best phrase we can put on it. In terms of whether people feel their data is protected and knowing feeling that that they've been told how their state data is stored and how it's used and how would it be otherwise when the staff themselves who are either deliberately or inadvertently gathering this data do not themselves or are not themselves entirely certain about their kind of responsibilities. In some ways, you might think GDPR will solve all of this, and it should and it is a good piece of legislation that promotes data hygiene, better cybersecurity should give us better trust and give us all better control over our data. I think it's another reason people are a bit scared of data. You know, so we have since the introduction of GDPR become flooded with privacy notification updates opt in requests and all kinds of other alerts so it's good that companies are asking us for consent in terms of collecting our data, but there's opt in fatigue. We just tick the box, I just tick the box I accept the same ways we've been doing with terms and conditions for a long time. I don't know if people know what this is. I spend a lot of my time filling in data protection impact impact assessments. If you don't know it's a form, but it's more than a form I suppose it's a form that kind of represents a kind of a process to ensure that you've taught about the risks when you're rolling out your digital ways of doing things, and that you've taught about how to meet those risks. It's onerous, but that's not a bad thing. And it definitely surfaces stuff is for me has opened up conversations with vendors and has made me think about the necessity for consultation with the likes of Kevin and and his and his court and and also I suppose just about why I'm gathering the data in the first place, but another way in which it gives us pause is this kind of sense and I'm really finished now that it's that it's evil in some degree. There's a fear that you know as we're kind of signing off on things like plagiarism and proctoring and attendance systems and learning analytics that you know we're moving towards a kind of a future that we don't want excessive usage of data and monitoring and surveillance of students. I just use a quote actually from Audrey waters as a kind of shorthand for that and say go and follow that link. She was good enough to give a presentation to students of the master's in in CIT this year as Catherine would be aware and had a lot to say about surveillance and it's kind of scary stuff so there is that kind of sense that we don't want to be on the same side as all of that. And maybe the final point is maybe we feel that it's against us, you know, so there's more subtle point that the data is undermining us that it's second guessing us that it's another demotion of us as as educators and educationists and I think just to wrap up because I'm over time as I was afraid it would be. I think that's only the case if we let others control and use use the data in my work certainly my relationship with data and data literacy is complicated. It confounds me it frustrates me. It sometimes gets used against me. It often scares me but it keeps me honest, and it helps me to tell my story and it helps me to influence decision making and planning and maybe that's not quite the conclusion I planned but as fitting a conclusion as as any so thanks very much. So thank you so much between your presentation and Kevin what a wonderful span of some of the issues around data for staff and students in our entire education amazing. I know there's lots of ideas that people are having in the chat but I'm going to ask Bonnie to load up her presentation and just for those of you who don't know her introduce Bonnie. Stuart is from the University of Windsor in Canada and has done a lot of work in the area of digital as I said and data literacies. And now we're kind of jumping outside the higher education context into a broader context around digital literacies and practices and higher it. So thank you so much Bonnie. It's a privilege and pleasure to be here. Good afternoon, I guess most of you good morning from where I am where we're still seemingly waiting for the sun to come up I think it's just the day we're having because it is well after 9am. Like, like I read I am not a quantitative researcher but I've been dipping my feet into data over the last couple of years, because what interests me is the ways in which datafication is changing the, the concept of what it means to be in school and how these four walls of the classroom conceptually are changing into an increasingly datafied environment. So that that's kind of the core of my work right now. Well, that seems to be going on a timer, oopsie daisy. Let me just bring that back for one second and it's always when you start on a new system you're figuring out what's going on but for me, we're seeing this ongoing arc of increasing surveillance and data extraction becoming the norms in which we teach in which we learn and to the point where we're seeing both, you know, extractive and very bizarre sorts of situations where students this this woman on the right, who literally was being proctored in her bar exam in the US and her water broke she went into labor in the middle of the exam but could not look away from her screen, in case she was barred from from coming back the next day so she literally went to the hospital gave birth and finished the bar exam the next morning and of course that's being reported as what a wonderful story isn't this great and I'm thinking, you know, wow, as as the Twitter image says on the screen I cannot believe this is real this is where we are at. We're also at a place where tools and data fried tools and datafication and education you know fails to recognize a call zoom the platform that we're on right now fails to recognize a colleague's face as a human face. This is the white colleagues face but not the black colleagues face so we are literally in these containers that we don't fully understand that don't necessarily map against our ethics or educational practices, and that is the shape of the school right now. And this doesn't come from COVID right. This is very much a situation that was already being created and then when everybody went online it has been exacerbated but it's not new. What it does is it creates a situation where educators who are knowledge workers don't understand and don't have a great deal of knowledge or confidence around many of the domains that shape how we teach and the environments in which we are. Supposedly, so I have two projects related to datafication one I work in a faculty of education and I teach pre service teachers for the most part I work in a bachelor's program I do teach in a master's and PhD program as well but the vast majority of my work is with teachers who are going to go into our K to 12 system. I'm using all kinds of tools in their classrooms and when they come into my digital tech courses the students want. What shiny what can I master what can I learn and I'm almost always saying look. I'm happy to work with you on tools but I want you to understand the conceptual tools that you need to work with tools because by the time that you graduate with your degree half of the tools that I teach you will be obsolete. But in the interest of finding a balance there and also getting students working deeply with these concepts that they need. I started doing a project called the UN tool parade, where we had a whole bunch of students in one of my classes plus a series of project students working with me and with other faculty to make short three four minute videos on different digital classroom tools. And one of the things that we looked at in those videos, and then we followed that up with doing 11 podcasts as well and different tools was classroom uses. But also the data implications so I got students going in deep looking at terms of service and beginning to try to translate those in these either three to four to five minute videos or these 12 minute podcasts. In a teacher to teacher manner right so what does it mean if I use this what does it mean to use this in the classroom, what are the implications for students, and then also looking at issues of differentiation how can I use these tools to serve a variety of students. So this is the student facing end of that piece and, as you can see our Kahoot versus Mentimeter video went small scale viral during the pandemic and we went from having 600 views to having almost 14,000 views now so my two students who are who are the faces of that video are enjoying their career of celebrity at this point within the Faculty of Education, to be fair. The other project that relates to me with data literacies perhaps more directly is something that I started doing this past summer, and it's just a very small scale survey certainly compared to the insight to the index survey. So I wanted to look at sort of higher education staff and particularly university staff, whatever their status in the academic hierarchy so whether they were casualized, long term permanent, all across the world so we all have different terminology for this, but on what our students are of data. And these are just some quick pieces of feedback coming out I've actually released this data set in Zanotto as an open data set last week, and I'm working on kind of a blog post just sharing some basics. I had 339 responses six were from Ireland so thank you very much. It looks to me just from the index survey as if in Ireland, your academic staff may actually be far more comfortable and aware there were more than 50% who seemed to know something about data, and as you will see that there may not be the case everywhere. But about 55% of our respondents were also from humanities and social science, and that may skew differently. Just depending on, and where we are. So for me in the data knowledge baseline in in this was, do you know which country houses the servers and data for your current institutional LMS, we in Canada and the US and about 40% of the responses to my survey were either from Canada, or the US so close to 40% from Canada, slightly over 40% from us. And for the most part, our average was that 66% of respondents don't know the location of the servers or data for their institutional LMS, even though 93% of the folks who responded have taught with that LMS so we just we don't know, even though for all of us who are not in the US there is actually some importance in understanding that right here in Canada, it can be really important for us to be aware of where our servers and data are housed, because Canadian privacy law and US privacy law are very different. And there are times in which it can be important to have data in Canada so that we can access it. So in terms of data practices. This is, you know, I am certainly in the norm here. How often have you read the full terms of service privacy agreements of new ed tech before bringing them into your classroom. 60% of the respondents in my survey actually read the full TOS, more than 90% of the time before they brought a new technology into use with their students. 60% read the full TOS of their new classroom tools, less than 10% of the time. Me too. Because, and this is where I want to go with this. This is not about academic staff failing to do these things. Those terms of service are not designed to be read and when I put my students deep into the job of investigating those. This was a repeated learning for us in this process that unless you basically are a lawyer or an IT specialist very difficult to make meaning out of those. So we've taken these are higher ed infrastructures and cobbled all of these data systems on top of them. And we have not got necessarily the literacies to make sense of these at the staff level at the student level. And it's interesting because this is back to something that great had said, we have a culture of being the product right of just clicking yes okay I give up I don't know how to make sense of this data so I'm going, we know that. That's part of the deal if you sign up for Facebook if you can't see what the product is, you're the product. And so we have developed this habit. When it comes to the situation that ran in higher ed, I think what it's meant is that we've accepted some very dangerous promises that are telling us, you know, data will give us the tree of perfect knowledge right, and there can be value in analytics but there are also all of these pieces that come with it, and we are not necessarily. We are beginning to see that there are some challenges that we need to address, I think particularly at the ethics level in universities. I can't do any research that involves humans without very significant data considerations and data protections being involved. And yet, I can take students in my classroom and subject them to third party apps to an extreme lack of knowledge on my part, and basically to anything I want in terms of data extraction with absolutely no ethical governance around that because we are not covered in GDPR right in Canada, and I don't think that that fits with what academic staff or students are looking for and so I appreciated Kevin's perspective on this as well because this is the final slide from my survey. When I asked a question about what do you believe institutions should do with our data, right, with the records of the institutional platforms that we have, 48.7% of respondents said, nothing, data should not be analyzed without express permission. So we don't have a lot of knowledge and our practices may not be adequate to the systems that we have in place to govern data, but our beliefs broadly speaking are that we need to do more about data and so I think what my work is kind of beginning to do is just create this baseline that we can point to and go, look, I think it's time to shift this conversation. Thank you and believe it's probably time to turn it over for questions so I will stop sharing. Thank you so much. A lot of food for thought there really appreciate that I have asked for questions in the chat. But there was something that arose earlier that I might ask you to comment further on Bonnie, and then if Kevin growth have something else to say about it. And that's around the use of language when we talk about data in these ways. So, Gavin wondered, said, you know, we're using a language around surveillance as opposed to invigilation now that we're talking about, you know, doing these activities online. So what's the significance of that why is that important, why is that intentional, you know, any thoughts about that. From my perspective, I think, and I guess I actually don't. Because I've always been in a faculty of education, even the language around invigilation is somewhat at arm's length from myself and my own historical practice, because most of my teaching has focused not so much on testing, but on hands on experimentation with tools. And, and invigilation is not always a word that we use in North America but that idea that there certainly is the adjudication of an experience that this is the moment where you test. I think that's very different from putting whole systems in place in that moment that then lurk and remain. That's a word that's coming to mind but I think what I'm trying to say is that you can't get off your damn computer. Right, come to this invigilation and we're going to surround you and follow you, you know, for the next six years that you own this device. There are very different things and we are treating them as if A and B are essentially interchangeable. And they're not. And I think it might be incumbent on us again from an ethical perspective as a field of higher education to consider these very real differences in the biggest picture sense and go well, I think we need to pause until we figure out appropriate ways to go forward with this. Thanks. Gero the Kevin. Just very quickly, I suppose. We say proctoring in Seattle, which is, which is kind of funny because it's a North American term, as I understand it, but people in the Institute have begun to say proctoring to refer to online proctoring. So if you don't have a, that term doesn't have a kind of history of usefulness. So proctoring North America is what we would call invigilation, but referring to it as surveillance, I think it's just a way maybe of linking it for people with other surveillance surveillance technologies. It's just a way to linkages and maybe joins the two other concerns about those kinds of technology. I wouldn't use the term but certainly, you know, there's occasions on which you want to talk about it in the context of surveillance, and open up the discussion about ways that it's similar and different to other things that we might be a lot more if you about that. Okay, thanks for that. I'm just scanning the questions here. This question from Sicily. If we assume that an institution's designated LMS or VLE is relatively protected. And some of the speakers expand on additional issues that may arise when you link to online sessions that are provided and tools external to the institutional LMS or VLE are incorporated into teaching sessions. And this was this whole notion of using third party apps and concerns around using third party apps was arose in our poll at the start of the session as well. I could say something very quickly, just as opposed from a technical point of view. It would depend on how those new tools have been integrated in. But I would say if there's student data getting passed back and forth, then one should still go through the steps of doing a data protection impact assessment and let that surface the kind of concerns you'd have and you want to start looking at the, at the DPA and various other documentation as well as that the vendor would be would be providing. There's a particular issue in the context of GDP or legislation if vendors servers are based in the US, for example, there used to be a bit of a get out called safe harbor and then privacy shield but it's I'm not sure where those things are at the moment, not just me, some people aren't sure those things are in terms of those. In terms of my reference to the way things are integrated. There is a set of interoperability standards called LTI, which is learning technology interoperability. And that's pretty safe, you know, in terms of ensuring that you're not passing back and forth more than you intend to, but that's more something that goes into your data protection impact assessment rather than something that takes away the need to consider it at all. I hope that's relevant. Okay. There's a question here that's reminding me of a question that was posed last week in the Edinburgh Webinar and that is, you know, for those people who have a long history of online teaching. One of the ways to think about the recent transition to, to remote online learning is to say what if, you know, you as an online educator had to do everything in a classroom how would you feel, you know, and and those of us with a long history of online would say, Oh my goodness, I can't do asynchronous communication. I can't do a lot of the multimodal and multi media things that I do online and so on. And it can kind of be a way of getting empathy for people who have not had a long history of teaching online. But one of the questions that is in the chat here says, and this is for each of the speakers and I might start with Kevin. What are the two key important lessons that you've learned since partaking in this transition to online teaching, assuming it has been a transition for you. And what advice or comments would you have for others outside your area or country. So there's anything particular about the recent context. So we'll say, especially with our data and datafication hats on Kevin, I'll start with you. Yeah, I suppose from a data perspective I probably can't comment as much but I think one of the most important things that I've probably observed from the last number of months is fit. And if we think there's often I suppose a demarcation between staff and students on a lot of things. But actually I think when it comes to this area as a whole, staff and students are very much trying to navigate on a very similar pathway. In that staff or in many cases, learning brand new things to them in the same way that students are. And so I think there's probably one piece of advice I would give is that staff and students should not feel uncomfortable in asking each other questions, because they're navigating the same journey. It's been as, I don't like using the right one precentive because it's been overused, but it's been as unexpected for staff as it has been for students and I think that's probably quite important because I think setting that tone from the start, particularly as we're transitioning to online lectures and having that space where staff and students can learn together is quite important. Thanks Kevin. Gero the Bonnie, do you want to add something. You go ahead Bonnie. All right, I'll just leaping quickly I just wanted to say I, Kevin I fully agree the, that open page project with the you win tool parade videos and podcasts that I did with my students was partly around trying to see the idea that actually not just higher ed students, higher faculty staff, but also K to 12 teachers, in terms of the area that I teach in which is digital technologies were all in the same learning curve. And so the purpose of that project was to even have students kind of lead my faculty colleagues through making some of these videos to kind of share their relations in that. And, and now, now even more so right this was a pre pandemic project that has proven to be quite timely, but it is about largely third party apps because that's one of the things particularly in K to 12 education that is core. I guess one of my lessons is that I have actually pulled back on using third party apps in my course, even though it is designed largely to give students some access to them and tools to think about them with partly because I'm trying to take the time to look very carefully through the data partly simply because in a fully online context my students take 10 courses at once which I think is a whole other conversation. But people simply we have to remember that the learning curve, both for managing the tool and what needs to be done with the tool but then also for coming to any kind of specific place of being able to speak about the data implications of the tool is something that takes time and so the more tools that we're throwing out into a learning environment. We need to consider that there needs to be time baked in there and my feeling overall is that even with tools that are not owned by the institution it might be really helpful. When we began to see more simple plain language educator focused and student focused. This is what it means if you use this tool in this way, language coming out. I would love to encourage from the ethical perspective. There are opportunities to take ownership of putting that out for any of their institutional tools, because even if educators are only working with one LMS they're all going to come to slightly different understandings etc. But to, I think that we do need to consider that LMS is or VLEs can only do so much and that sometimes in certain contexts people may want to do more and begin to focus on language in this right. So even in a space where the idea around data is look at the shiny thing and all that it can do how can we make use of it to its full capacity. I think we need to shift our conversation to what does this mean for users. Thank you so much. Kevin, or sorry, I know I wanted to go to you but there's another question I might fold it in here to you and this from Sharon Flynn. I'm just wondering how this notion again about use of third party tools how do we deal with staff who with good intentions choose to use third party tools outside the institution offering and often handling over student data and email addresses in the process. So again, we're just in our final minute, maybe just a few words and then I'll thank everyone. It's a really, it's a really difficult one, I suppose. I'm not in the business of telling people not to use things. I don't think that that will work out anyway. I mean, we try to sell it to them as look, you know, if you start using tools that we're not supporting, then total logical that we won't be able to support you and I suppose that's the gentle way, maybe in which we kind of dissuade people. Sometimes not get tough with people but make it clear to them the kind of things that we consider when we roll out new technology and that would certainly can talk about things like like GDPR. I mean, sometimes we work with people and say okay, you have a particular problem and you need and you know you want to find some way to address it. We thought of this or maybe people will, it happened recently, people find something that we hadn't been thinking about and we realize there's a bit of a gap in our e-learning infrastructure. But we have a process, you know, to make sure that whatever we bring in, you know, has respect as far as things like data protection and lots of other stuff besides that as well as the fact that it fits in. It coheres with the rest of the components of our infrastructure. Thank you. That was a difficult question and I think Bonnie's previous response and some of the things Kevin raised to point out this whole notion of, you know, building digital literacies, making things simpler, engaging everyone in the process. So many good points have been raised today. We're unfortunately out of time. The notion of balancing the, you know, the potentially positive aspects of using data and the risks, the importance and vital role of student voice, building digital capacity, digital identity and data literacies. Recognizing the risks of, you know, surveillance and algorithms and so on, including those things in our conversations when we choose tools. And just engaging students like Bonnie has done with you in tool parade and kind of working in partnership with staff to communicate clearly about these. So much more to be said, but you've given us so much food for thought. Kevin, Gero, then Bonnie, thank you so very much. I will send the recording and associated materials to all of the registered participants tomorrow. And I hope you all have a rest of this wonderful day. Thank you. Bye everyone. Bye.